published Wednesday, July 29th, 2009

Race in America

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Salsa said...

Bruce Plante draws better cartoons. Please bring him back.

July 29, 2009 at 12:08 a.m.
JohnnyRingo said...

People can scoff at the notion that racism is still alive & well in America, but if you've ever talked to an African American about how he can always find help in a store by turning around and asking the guy following him, or how he's expected to act when pulled over for a shorted tailight that "flashes every time he makes a turn", we realize that "black in America" is more than a CNN catch phrase for a full one third of our citizens.

For years, we've heard that "if only minorities would stay in school, raise their children, and not expect a free ride from the government, they'd be as welcome to the American Dream as white people".

Someone remind the birthers, teabaggers, and Democrats For McCain.

BTW... Let's leave Plante in Tulsa, where his fans find it difficult to understand his cartoons without moving their lips.

July 29, 2009 at 3:19 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

At approx. 12% of the total population, Americans of African descent are over represented in crime stats. See: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_43.html

Could this be why they are pulled over more? Not because of skin color per se, but because they are, statistically, more likely to be engaging in unlawful activities.

If one were to dig into the numbers a bit further, it becomes obvious that black males, under 25 years of age are the most highly represented.

These are also the individuals most likely involved in the "thug culture".

I'm sure I'll get some grief for writing the above, however please note that these are facts and not racist conjecture.

Perhaps instead of harping on the "racial bias" bit, the media, along with the leaders of the black community should spend some time confronting the real issue.

So long as it is deemed "cool" to act like a thug, these young men are going to do just that. Which brings to mind another old proverb, "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

On a personal note. When I was in my early twenties, I had long hair(I'm male), I dressed like a musician/hippie/punk, and I drove a loud, low, flashy car with tinted windows and a loud stereo. I was (surprise) pulled over by the police every few weeks. They would play twenty questions, ransack my car and my person, and finding nothing, cut me loose. In short, I was being profiled.

Flash forward to today. I still look young enough that I get carded for beer, but I keep my hair cut short, I dress "business casual", and I drive a car that is a lot faster than the old sled but looks a lot like your aunt Flo's Camry.

I drive the same as I always have since I started driving at 11, obeying every rule, save the speed limit on the highway, and I haven't been pulled over in almost ten years.

This leads me to the conclusion that the police are on the lookout for those who appear likely to be involved in criminal activity. If the targeted individual is doing nothing wrong other than driving "erratically", they get cut loose, no harm done. (Don't stick you're hands in your pockets, as from my experience, there is no quicker way to get a good look down the barrel of a service pistol.)

July 29, 2009 at 4:02 a.m.
woody said...

I can't recall who it was, but someone once stated, "...as long as there is one Arab and one Jew in the Middle East there will be conflict...." And, I am afraid, the same may be said of America. As long as there are at least one narrow-minded Black and White individuals alive in this great country of ours there will always be some form of racism. And to think it only exists on one side of the equation is the same as condoning and likely perpetuating it.

As to the remark regarding Mr. Plante vs Mr. Bennett, I would like to inform "salsa" that both cartoonists are good at what they do. And as a former newspaper man I can honestly say I would love to have them both. However, no one paper could afford that much talent.

Thank you for your time and attention, Woody

July 29, 2009 at 6:17 a.m.
EaTn said...

The minority as a whole is no longer a minority, but the old school have not realized this fact. The racists are still alive and well. Some folks say they are opposed to Sotomayor or Obama because of their qualifications or ideals, but their rhetoric sends out another message altogether. Politicians who think they can gain a majority power while shutting out the minorities better wake up.

July 29, 2009 at 6:25 a.m.
sandyonsignal said...

Clay Bennett is brilliant. His humor is subtle, a bit wry, I prefer it to Plante or Luckovich. All week his cartoons have been exceptional.

Scotty M, the link you cite, only shows a breakdown of white, black and Indians, Eskimos, etc... isn't this a rather incomplete list? What about hispanics? Did they just get lumped into the black category? Stats on poverty and education levels would be a better indicator of what represents criminals than mentioning race. Wonder how many in the 2007 FBI study have college or high school degrees? Probably very few in all the classes.

Profiling reminds me of the scene in Casablanca where the police Captain witnessed Rick shooting the Major, but tells his men "round up the usual suspects".

July 29, 2009 at 7:19 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

sandyonsignal,

The F.B.I. considers "hispanics" to be white, and and aggregates the data as such.

I would agree with your assessment that income and education levels are linked with crime rates, though I'm not real clear on which is cause and which is effect. Fatherless households tend to be connected with all three. It is a sad state of affairs.


sandyonsignal wrote, "Profiling reminds me of the scene in Casablanca where the police Captain witnessed Rick shooting the Major, but tells his men "round up the usual suspects"."

So in your view, profiling is the same as ignoring the obvious perpetrator and looking for someone else to pin the crime on?

Sorry, but I'm thinking that kind of blatant miscarriage of justice is extremely rare.


EaTn wrote, "The racists are still alive and well."

Yes they are, and some are even being placed on the Supreme Court.

July 29, 2009 at 8:55 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

Double tap "and" sorry about that.

July 29, 2009 at 8:57 a.m.
OllieH said...

SCOTTYM writes, "At approx. 12% of the total population, Americans of African descent are over represented in crime stats. Could this be why they are pulled over more? Not because of skin color per se, but because they are, statistically, more likely to be engaging in unlawful activities."

Look at it from the other way around, scottym- could black Americans be a higher proportion of the crime statistics BECAUSE they are pulled over more often?

Your next point, "If one were to dig into the numbers a bit further, it becomes obvious that black males, under 25 years of age are the most highly represented. These are also the individuals most likely involved in the "thug culture".

More likely than Wall Street bankers or corporate CEOs?

So, let's just forget about probable cause, you're proposing we detain folks for probably complexion. Couple the increased scrutiny of the police with the fact that, once arrested, African Americans usually receive stiffer sentences, and you have a criminal justice system that is (from start to finish) administered unjustly.

There is no justification for racial profiling. Those who try are only serving as enablers for institutional racism.

July 29, 2009 at 9:08 a.m.
OllieH said...

Salsa- Are you nuts? I wouldn't trade Bennett for Plante if they threw in two journalists to be named later.

Although I liked Bruce Plante's cartoons very much, he's not even in the same league with Clay Bennett. You people may not get it, but we landed a cartooning superstar when Bennett came to Chattanooga.

He is to the left of Plante, so you may not agree with his politics. But I don't know how anyone can not agree on his talent as a cartoonist and a commentator.

July 29, 2009 at 9:22 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

OllieH wrote, "So, let's just forget about probable cause, you're proposing we detain folks for probably complexion."

You poor reading comprehension is likely the source of so many of you ignorant opinions. I neither wrote, nor implied anything of the sort.

Supposing that blacks really are pulled over merely for being black, are the police manufacturing the evidence used at trial to convict them as well?

OllieH wrote, "More likely than Wall Street bankers or corporate CEOs?"

Well now that you bring it up, those corporate fatcats do, disproportionately contribute money and support to the dem thugs who are at the levers of power in this country and charting a course straight to national bankruptcy. I suspect that is why they have enjoyed all that bailout money that we get to repay. They are, in effect, using the Congress to steal from us. Is that what you meant?

July 29, 2009 at 9:44 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

Comedian Chris Rock has a pretty funny take on this sort of thing.

WARNING!!! The language used is not kid friendly. WARNING!!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dAUrj6Helg

July 29, 2009 at 9:49 a.m.
jackson_pe said...

Being "Liberal" does not make you brilliant!

July 29, 2009 at 10 a.m.
rolando said...

Good cite, SCOTTYM, good info for everyone. Simple, too.

On-scene, the cop is in command...as Gates found out. Race had nothing to do with that. Nothing. It was Gates' big mouth and bigger attitude. Sass the cop, go to jail.

Your first post of the day was the classic definition of profiling. It works.

July 29, 2009 at 10:42 a.m.
JohnnyRingo said...

There's an often overlooked factor that enters into profiling.

When a crime is commited by an African American, the description police have to go by usually includes: "black hair, brown eyes, dark sweatshirt, baggy pants and athletic shoes".

A compatable suspect is usually found in short order within a block's distance, and when returned to the scene for identification, is often confirmed by someone who thinks "they all look alike to me". This is somewhat understandable because of the limited physical descriptors common to blacks.

Because of the likely poverty of the suspect, a public defender is appointed and plea bargaining begins soon thereafter.

I have a friend who jokes that he always gets a reciept for everything he buys, even a pack of gum, because he says he never knows when he'll need an alibi.

July 29, 2009 at 11:11 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

JohnnyRingo,

While I have no doubt that your scenario does occasionally happen, I'd be willing to bet that it is very rare.

From my experience, though eye, hair, and skin color can be very similar among those of African descent, picking out an individual among a group is not very difficult. Blacks do not look anymore alike than whites or any other race. This is an old stereotype and is insulting to both the witness and any individual of color who is being described.

You are also taking a shot at the officer involved by implying that a rough description and one sight impaired witness is all they need for an arrest. Generally some corroborating evidence is needed.

I'm sure that the public defenders out there busting their chops for little pay would also be insulted by your post.

Your receipt packing friend may be onto a good idea. It is assuredly a funny one.

July 29, 2009 at 12:09 p.m.
EaTn said...

jackson_ pe wrote "Being "Liberal" does not make you brilliant!"

No, but it's a prerequisite...

July 29, 2009 at 1:39 p.m.
OllieH said...

SCOTTYM- I understand your need to use name-calling to discredit my views, since your argument seems unable to do so.

But still, you earlier quote of "Could this be why they are pulled over more? Not because of skin color per se, but because they are, statistically, more likely to be engaging in unlawful activities" defies reason.

It's not their skin color per se? I'm sure African Americans will take much comfort in that meaningless rationalization. If the increased scrutiny is not based on their skin color, then how are they singled out (per se)?

I don't understand the resistance to the sad fact that our criminal justice system is biased head to toe. Unless, of course, you're just promoting the idea that people from one ethnicity are just more prone to criminal activity than those from another.

Oh wait, that WAS your point. Never mind.

July 29, 2009 at 1:45 p.m.
mltoran said...

Scotty, Unfortunately it happens much more than you think. My husband (5'10" stocky and an exdeputy) repeatedly got pulled over or stopped and questioned as "matching the description of" suspects who ranged from 5'3 and slender to 6'4" and athletic. He actually had to show his badge at one point, and the officer STILL contacted his department supervisor to question his legitimacy....and you think it doesnt happen?

July 29, 2009 at 2 p.m.
JohnnyRingo said...

EaTn: hahahahaha Thank you for that smackdown about brilliance. That witty reply brought a much needed chuckle and satisfies the point (at least in your case).

July 29, 2009 at 2:31 p.m.
SCOTTYM said...

OllieH,

Reading comprehension. Fail.

Where did I call you a name? I did not.

"Unless, of course, you're just promoting the idea that people from one ethnicity are just more prone to criminal activity than those from another."

You did look at the F.B.I. stats, right? I'm not promoting anything, I merely pointed out some facts. I understand that facts can be confusing for some. Are you arguing that the F.B.I. got it wrong by that much?

Keeping your head in the sand and pretending that racism in the justice system is the problem, is the problem. The left in this country needs to realize that so long as they use these phony issues to divide the population, and ignore real problems, the real problems will never be fixed.

I pointed out up the page that I have been pulled over repeatedly when I fit the profile of a criminal. I didn't go to jail, not because I'm white, but because I wasn't breaking any laws. I assure you the police very, very rarely jail an innocent person, regardless of color.

When those who are crying racism quit looking and acting like thugs, the police will quit treating them as such. If they are going to exercise their freedom to look and act like a thug, then they should not have illegal items on their person or in their vehicle for the police to find when they inevitably are pulled over. Otherwise, they will continue to go to jail in disproportionate numbers. It has nothing at all to do with racism. It is good police work.

July 29, 2009 at 2:42 p.m.
mltoran said...

Scotty, Unless my husband looks like a thug because he is black...there is no rhyme nor reason to support what you're saying...and this goes for many others as well. My cousin(a Georgetown Law grad) was pulled over when visiting becuase evidently a black woman in a bmw was "suspicious". My sister (PhD candidate finishing her thesis) and her husband (engineer) pulled over when they came to visit as well (oos plates evidently constitute suspicion in this area). None of these people fall into your explanation of looking thuggish, etc...but yet each and everyone has been pulled over when they have come up to visit...call it paranoid, but I see a pattern.

July 29, 2009 at 2:59 p.m.
SCOTTYM said...

mltoran, You're paranoid.

I kid. It sounds to me like you may very well have a police officer in your area who likes to pull over black people. It does happen. I never said it did not.

It could also be the out of town tags on some of the cars. As for your husband, is there something unusual about his car?

I'm not sure where you live, but in some neighborhoods the officer who is assigned to patrol that area learns which cars belong and recognizes "outsiders". They will be pulled over.

It could be racism.

We have no way of knowing the true motivation of any one officer, but I'd bet that most are out there to serve their community and catch criminals, regardless of their race.

July 29, 2009 at 3:49 p.m.
mltoran said...

scotty.... I'm hardly paranoid...lol.

1) What would constitute unusual about my husbands car that would warrant pulling him over? Or my family's vehicles for that matter.

((For the record my husband drives a black ford ranger pickup, my cousin a bmw sedan, and my sister a ford edge...those are thuggish drug dealing type vehicles for sure.))

We lived in a very quiet predominately white neighborhood, so i guess that they would be "outsiders" being there were few black folk in the area. Even if the officers primary motive is to serve and protect, but in doing so consistently profile ((which is exactly what you've described in your previous post)) it's still wrong.

It's not just the police though. My husband and I went to Toys R Us recently to buy our daughter a birthday present. We had someone on our heel the entire time we were in the store. We are a professional couple, do not dress "thuggish", yet we were the only people followed that way. It is not acceptable in this day and age to target and profile or stereotype based on complexion.

July 29, 2009 at 4:07 p.m.
SCOTTYM said...

mltoran,

Nothing you've said sounds like a reason for extra police(or store employee) attention.

Sounds to me like you may have a problem with an over zealous police officer. I'd go up the chain of command and take care of that one(or those ones). As for the store employee, I would probably get pretty rude real quick-like, however you could speak with management and make it very clear that you will take your money where it is more appreciated.

It also sounds to me like you and your family are model citizens, unfortunately you may be suspect because of what others do.

I'm sorry to say this but until those statistics change in a big way, all Americans of African descent are going to continue getting extra attention. Especially those "thugs". The police do it because it is an effective way to catch criminals.

If crime stats for middle-aged skinny white guys shot through the roof, I'd expect to receive extra attention.


As for profiling in general, do you also think it is wrong for airport security to pay closer attention to middle-eastern males?

What if they are getting on the same plane with you?

July 29, 2009 at 4:52 p.m.
mltoran said...

Scotty,

I appreciate your comments, and personally, I think it's wrong even for middle eastern males to get additional scrutiny above and beyond what anyone else would. EVEN on my plane. I would hope that security would be doing their job and assessing EVERYONE, and not just middle eastern males (or what they assume are middle eastern males as they often include Indian/Pakistani/Israeli/Mediterranean)

July 29, 2009 at 4:57 p.m.
JohnnyRingo said...

If blacks and whites were treated equally by police, SCOTTYM could expect to be randomly stopped and questioned as to whether he was seen lurking about a women's health clinic.

They could further move the stereotypical investigation by searching his trunk for mail bombs that he intended to send to college professors, and hopefully there are no maps of Oklahoma City in his glove box. It never hurts to look for meth on a slender white male either.

Don't get uppity with the officer, if it wasn't always white men that perpertrated these crimes, they wouldn't have to bother you. It's just good police work.

July 29, 2009 at 5:41 p.m.
SCOTTYM said...

JohnnyRingo wrote,

"...hopefully there are no maps of Oklahoma City in his glove box. It never hurts to look for meth on a slender white male either."

I resemble those remarks. :)

If a black officer pulled me over looking for those things I sure wouldn't be claiming it was race based.

"It's just good police work." Indeed.

July 29, 2009 at 5:56 p.m.
alprova said...

Scotty's defending profiling as was to be expected, and he's basing his defense on statistics, all of which seem to support his case.

Blacks are targeted because they are caught and convicted in higher percentages than whites are, and thus should be scrutinized a little closer by law enforcement. That makes sense, doesn't it?

But what if the fact is that white people are just as just as likely to commit crimes as blacks are, but they are not getting caught and/or convicted in equal percentages because the cops are targeting blacks in higher percentages of their traffic stops? Wouldn't that also make sense?

It is indeed a fact. There are more white criminals in this country, and they do commit more crimes. Statistics can prove anything if you look hard enough, but look beyond the statistics to understand what may or may not be at the core of those statistics.

People with decent jobs are less likely to turn to criminal activity as a means to support themselves. The unemployment rates for blacks is undeniably higher than it is for whites.

Social stigmas and perceptions are absolutely a core reason why blacks are mistrustful of white people. Only ugly, obese, or "visually expressive" white people have the first clue as to what REAL discrimination is like.

Decades of cultural influence absolutely breeds more of the same. The fact that this nation still resists the integration of all races into all of our neighborhoods, all of our educational institutions, and into our social settings, is a big issue that still needs to be addressed.

Right here in our area, I see far more white people that I suspect who probably would be found with illegal drugs in their car if they were stopped and searched. These white people drive through the lower class neighborhoods just like the blacks do, but are rarely stopped, that is unless there is an active sting by the police in place TARGETING those who are seeking to buy drugs.

I'm sorry, but all the statistics and percentages in the world do not account for, or justify the reality that exists for those who are black. Whites are far less likely to be stopped than blacks are by the police, based on their perceptions and everyone knows it.

Our system of justice is supposed to be based on the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. If that system is breaking down at the entry level, then the entire system is corrupt. Whites deserve to be caught committing their crimes too.

If law enforcement were to all magically change gears and spend a month pulling over only people who are white, I'll just bet that there would be a sudden increase in the criminal statistics for those who are white.

So then, doesn't it really come down to who's really being targeted and caught, rather than who is actually committing the crimes?

July 29, 2009 at 5:56 p.m.
SCOTTYM said...

alprova,

Some of your points are spot on.

However you are forgetting the large number of black officers and police chiefs in this country. Are they racist against blacks as well?

"If law enforcement were to all magically change gears and spend a month pulling over only people who are white, I'll just bet that there would be a sudden increase in the criminal statistics for those who are white."

I'd love to see that, though I doubt it would turn out to make a very big difference.

July 29, 2009 at 6:10 p.m.
SCOTTYM said...

According to the F.B.I. table linked above, blacks, who make up about 12% of the population, were responsible in the year 2007 for 50.4% of all solved murders and nonnegligent manslaughters, 33.5% of all solved forcible rapes, 65.7% of all solved robberies, and 33.7% of all solved aggravated assaults, I could go on.

I find it beyond credulity that this was all because of being pulled over by police more often.

In light of the fact that most of these are likely black males, who are only about 6% of the population, it becomes even more astounding.

Sadly, that murder rate is mostly young black male on young black male.

Clearly something more than racism is going on.

That dog will not hunt.

July 29, 2009 at 6:35 p.m.
vtg1955 said...

I totally respect the comments from the " obvious white and obvious black" readers of these post. I was born in 1955. I have always lived in the South. I remember the 1960's.I see and hear what is going on 40 + years later and I am absolutely in shock. This is 2009 people. Get over the past. My best friend is black. We went to JR. and Sr.High schools together. It was not the best of times for interracial friendships. I could call Michael at any time and ask for any favor...get me out of jail,money,or I just need to talk,and he would do whatever necessary to help me as I would him also. Life is so short. Please get over these feeling of hate. None of us knew each other 4 or 500 years ago. I am sorry the way things were then,but vmy friend and I got past it.Please give it a try!

July 29, 2009 at 6:42 p.m.
Sailorman said...

Here's another interesting fact: Population percentages

White 73.51% Black 12.4 Hispanic 15.5 - (the ones that could be counted)

It will be interesting when Hispanic crime rates are finally broken out - as is in every other statistic the gov publishes.

Draw your own conclusions.

July 29, 2009 at 7:19 p.m.
mltoran said...

Sailorman...

What exactly are those statistics meant to show?

July 29, 2009 at 7:55 p.m.
Sailorman said...

mitoran - seems self-explanatory to me. What do you think they show?

July 29, 2009 at 8 p.m.
InspectorBucket said...

Sailorman...

What exactly are those statistics meant to show?

mitoran - seems self-explanatory to me. What do you think they show?


Open query: Ask yourselves, "What do you think all of the above shows? Why do you think we are having this debate right now, with the particular passion of the moment?"

Black Man.

White House.

vtg1955, you are a good man with a good friend. Treasure that.

But our American "today" is undeniably marked by an American "yesterday," in a confused and unclear and regrettable way.

No excuses.

No guilt.

The world is what it is.

Show love.

Avoid the cant.

July 29, 2009 at 8:34 p.m.
mltoran said...

Sailorman, They show nothing and offer nothing to the stream of the conversation. Breakdown of population....and your point is?

July 29, 2009 at 8:56 p.m.
Sailorman said...

mitoran - given the intelligence displayed in your above posts, that snarky response is beneath you. If you can't discern the implications you are either being deliberately obtuse or your not as smart as I thought. For the record, I mostly agree with the points you made.

July 29, 2009 at 9:14 p.m.
Clara said...

I visited DC some time ago. I was in an upscale neighborhood and had just come out on the street.

Suddenly skyrockets went off. That was obviously dangerous in a city street. I saw who did it; a group of young white males standing on a stoop. Just then, 3 young blacks, around 10 or 11 years old came down the street, and a police officer came down the other way and stopped them. I intervened and informed the officer who the culprits were. Those kids were scared. I'm glad I was there.

July 29, 2009 at 9:25 p.m.
mltoran said...

Sailorman, I am not being deliberately obtuse or snarky. I am legitimately questioning the point YOU are trying to make with the statistics before I make a judgment or response.

Clara, I'm glad that you were there for that occurrence, it shows a depth of character that hopefully will be shared by more. In today's society we have a tendency to keep to ourselves and not get involved.

July 29, 2009 at 9:34 p.m.
Sailorman said...

OK The fact is that the percentage of the population represented by blacks is declining. The percentage of Hispanics, and we really don't know what that number is, is growing rapidly with a significant number of illegals. The black population is becoming a minority minority but retains a media power beyond its numbers. Anecdote - my 14 year old grandson (in another city in Tn) tells me the black students and white get along just fine but they are united in their dislike of Hispanics and the feeling is mutual. This thread has been mostly about profiling. I agree with you on that. BUT I also agree with a number of Scotty's points. Do you really believe profiling is only the province of white cops? Profiling is not going to go away. The focus is going to shift to the "benefit" of the blacks and detriment of the Hispanics. Fair or not. What will change the situation? If I had that answer, I wouldn't be here. I'd be making millions somewhere else.

July 29, 2009 at 9:58 p.m.
mltoran said...

When I was young, my mom explained to me that there were all types of people..White, Black, Brown and everything in between. I am white....my husband is black...my daughter is brown. My daughter, being brown (or carmel macchiatto in her words...leave it to a 9 year old) often gets confused for hispanic etc....my point in this being...Race is changing and taking on a new status in our society. What was black and white (not an intentional pun) in pre-civil rights society, is not so clearly defined today. I would hope that as an evolving culture we can find better alternatives than profiling. It really benefits nobody.

July 29, 2009 at 10:05 p.m.
Sailorman said...

"Race is changing and taking on a new status in our society" My hope would be that it loses its status entirely. Remember "content of character rather than color of skin"? Of course, humans being human will no doubt find other aspects to profile.

July 29, 2009 at 10:25 p.m.
alprova said...

Again Scotty, statistics can bear out many fundamental truths, but what is the solution to the problem? Isn't that a better topic to tackle, rather than to cite the problem over and over?

Should we euthanize people on the basis of their skin color to prevent most of the crime due to these often quoted statistics? After all, the United States seems to be about preemptive strikes to solve international crimes. Is this where we are headed?

People are not bred to be criminals. There is absolutely no evidence at all to suggest that any race of people are more likely to turn to crime based on their DNA. So what is the point to citing any set of statistics to suggest that blacks are more likely to engage in criminal activity...to then leave it hanging there like a corpse?

We are straying from the subject of this cartoon, which is more to the point of "driving while black".

But here's a thought since we are already there; How much are we spending to capture, try, and incarcerate the 25% of young black males in this country who make poor choices in life, when we could have spent half that amount or less, to provide educations and counseling for them, as an incentive for them to choose to the RIGHT paths in life.

All politics aside, our leaders have failed to be pragmatic, opting to treat gaping wounds with a Band-aids. For decades, sticking certain people out of sight and out of mind and throwing good money down the drain has been the policy in this nation. It stinks.

Idle hands are the Devil's playground. We've all heard this before. It absolutely applies to this subject.

I was reading the other day about a man in New York City who operates an educational facility for kids in the Bronx, His idea is to catch them while they are young. People donate their time and money to educate these kids and to teach them to be healthy and active, all in an effort to assist in breaking the cultural negatives that white people are forever citing and lamenting, but doing nothing about.

My question is to ask why this is not something that our Government should have instituted decades ago. Japan lifted an entire nation out of the ashes in a similar manner to become one of the most admired and unified nations on the planet.

I'm sure that there are going to be people who will read this and call me a "commie". So be it. Why are our leaders so loathe in this nation to adopt principals of Socialism that DO make sense?

We can't save anyone who does not desire to be helped, but I guarantee you that the overwhelming majority of people stuck at the bottom rung of the ladder would thrive, if given half the chance.

July 30, 2009 at 12:42 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

alprova,

I about dang cried reading your last post. I agree with so much of what you wrote, especially this,

"We can't save anyone who does not desire to be helped, but I guarantee you that the overwhelming majority of people stuck at the bottom rung of the ladder would thrive, if given half the chance.".

Who is denying them that chance?


The problem I see is the divisions imposed upon us by political factions in order to secure a winning coalition. Divide and conquer is the mantra for some. Race is an easy cleavage line to exploit.

You (alprova) wrote,

"Japan lifted an entire nation out of the ashes in a similar manner to become one of the most admired and unified nations on the planet."

and that is true. The difference between them(the Japanese), and us (Americans) is they are/were racially homogeneous. There were no racial differences to exploit. (Ignoring the very small number of "outsiders" who were, and still are treated as less than human.)

Decades ago, instead of imposing equality, our government imposed a system of extra-equality, and gave birth to a system wherein certain people were free to under perform their potential and yet still reap the same rewards as those who work hard to achieve their full potential.

In the long run, this is a recipe for national disaster.

Socialism/communism is very much the same thing. Equal results, regardless of effort. The only people who rise to the top are those who know the right people. Everyone else toils away in a meager existence with no motivation to excel.


You (alprova) wrote,

"Should we euthanize people on the basis of their skin color to prevent most of the crime due to these often quoted statistics?.... Is this where we are headed?

Dude. We have been here for decades.

"JUSTICE R.B.GINSBURG: Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of.

That is just sick. Who are these "populations that we don’t want to have too many of."?

Look at the abortion stats vs. population percentages and think about it.

Eugenics is alive and in practice.


I hit the word limit. Next post.

July 30, 2009 at 2:01 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

Continue from above.

You (alprova) wrote,

"There is absolutely no evidence at all to suggest that any race of people are more likely to turn to crime based on their DNA. "

I agree and will state that I think it is a cultural thing. Fixing this involves requiring all people to achieve (or not) on their own. Take responsibility for yourself. No hand outs or undeserved positions. Earn it or do without.

It is called tough love, my dad and mom did it to me. 18? Here is a boot in the a**, have fun. I made my own way in the world and I am proud of it. It made me a better man than I would have otherwise been.

So many young blacks are denied the pride of achieving their potential. My kids go to a fully mixed school. I see it and hear about it everyday. The black kids who keep up with their lessons and work hard are told to quit acting white. WTF


We have indeed drifted away from basic topic.

When blacks, as a group, cease committing a disproportionate amount of crime, they will cease receiving a disproportionate amount of police attention.

When our leaders stop embracing the idea that blacks can not achieve the American dream without the help of .gov mandates, they will rise up to the challenge and achieve their true potential.

Racism needs to die. The time is now.

July 30, 2009 at 2:02 a.m.
themanfromtn said...

Sandyonsignal & Ea TN the FBI does NOT consider Hispanics to be white as one jumps on the conspiracy wagon and the other drives the horses. The FBI directs, through the National Incident Based Reporting System that Hispanic is a ethnicity not a race as you may have both black and white Hispanics. Officers are required to ask Hispanics if they are black or white and classify accordingly. This may surprise both of you, though truthfully I doubt it, the overwhelming majority claim to be white. Here is a couple of more surprises, Hispanic victims are mostly targeted by black offenders and the majority of crime period is black on black. So in the majority of crimes it is not the evil racist white persons who claims that a black person is a criminal but black people standing out against the 1960 attitude that you both are obviously plagued with. Growing up amongst black folks as I have it may interest you to know that I have met more black racists than I have white and there’s an inside joke that white people are stupid because they are so easily manipulated.

July 31, 2009 at 1:15 p.m.
SCOTTYM said...

themanfromthemtn,

I was the one who wrote that Hispanics were classified as white by the F.B.I. That was the info I found on the subject. I apologize to anyone if it was misinformation.

I think the Hispanic question IS a bit confused as Hispanics are anyone from anywhere that was once a Spanish holding. (i.e. whites of Portuguese descent in S.America, Native descendants of Incas and Aztecs, Spanish colonists, etc.) Is that correct? If so, aren't native Texans also Hispanic? (Heck, most anyone from the SW U.S.A.)

This would all be easier if we all just forgot about this race/ethnicity crap and call ourselves Americans.

July 31, 2009 at 4:36 p.m.
themanfromtn said...

Agreed.

August 14, 2009 at 8:35 a.m.
FM_33 said...

A race huh !

How many miles long is it ?

What's the prize if you win and come in 1st place ?

August 11, 2010 at 6:24 p.m.
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