Doctor Tiller

Moral certitude killed Dr Tiller.

GREAT CARTOON, CLAY!

This may have been the act of one man, but the Pro-Life movement did everything shy of offering him a coupon for the ammo, to incite this tragedy.

As Americans, we always look at religious terrorism as a product of Islamic fundamentalism. Events like this show us (all too clearly) that there's a fine line between al-Qaeda and Operation Rescue. The Pro-Life movement declared this holy war years ago, they've demonized the opposition with incendiary rhetoric, whipped their followers into a fanatical frenzy, and then wonder why one of their own little suicide bombers could do such a thing.

The Pro-Life movement has been pouring gasoline on this issue for years and then they blame the guy with the match when it explodes. You can't very well denounce such violence after the fact, if you brazenly encourage it beforehand.

I am a pro-life supporter.

That being said, I take offense to being blamed in any way for the actions of a homicidal nut. Whether I, and 10s of millions of other people, disagree with abortion or not, it is currently legal.

There is NO justification for what happened to Dr. Tiller.

The problem, as I see it, is the media trying to blame the actions of one man on an entire group. In this same time period we have an anti-war Islamic convert who shot two military personnel. I'm not seeing the same sort of invective being hurled at the anti-war groups, or at Islamic groups. Why not? Why the double standard?

It is easy pickings on the pro-life supporters because, by-and large, we are a peaceful bunch. Anyone who thinks otherwise should really take a look at the stats on violence against abortion providers and supporters.

I have no way of knowing if Clay is on board with the media's ideology on this, or merely acting as illustrator for their storyline. I would like to think it is the second.

The real truth is, as applies to me anyway, and as much as I loath the things Dr. Tiller did in his practice, had I been present when he was attacked, I would have put my own life on the line to physically defend him.

There is a cultural divide in this country, and most of the hate is coming from one side. Generalizing the actions of one homicidal nut onto an entire group, while ignoring the actions of others, is merely a tool used to incite more hatred against that group.

nucnuck said, "Moral certitude killed Dr Tiller."

Wrong, a homicidal idiot killed Dr. Tiller.

OllieH says, "The Pro-Life movement declared this holy war years ago, they've demonized the opposition with incendiary rhetoric, whipped their followers into a fanatical frenzy, and then wonder why one of their own little suicide bombers could do such a thing."

Ah, there is that hate I was referring to. Nice.

So sad that some people allow themselves to be so easily manipulated by the media.

I am pro-life and also pro-law, meaning that it's a dilemma many like myself struggle with in this country. We believe that the unborn are human beings, that we have the duty to abide by the laws and the right to demonstrate and voice our opinions when we do not agree with these laws. Those that go to the extreme and murder someone like the abortion doctor will have to answer to both God and our laws. The rest are left to struggle with our conscience.

Well said EaTn.

The murder of Dr. Tiller cannot be justified. When is it appropriate for a citizen to be a judge and jury and decide that a person deserves a death sentence?

In this case, the women voluntarily sought what was a legal and medically approved. Lord knows, no one wants a citizen deciding if their actions are "morally" correct, then determining the sentence.

Pro life or not, the murder of Dr. Tiller is certain to confirm in the public's eye that the pro life groups are zealots, with the same image as PETA. As a women, I find men trying to dictate whether a women should be mandated to bear children as somewhat perplexing. Women’s organizations should focus on legislation for mandated vasectomies to avoid unplanned pregnancies in the first place? I do not hear men advocating to address the source of the problem.

Using this logic all Americans in support of the war on terror... no wait... it's "contingent overseas operations" now... are at fault for all terrorist attacks... no wait, those are "man caused disasters" now... on US citizens. Interesting logic. Faulted, but interesting.

"Pro-Life" is the classic example of, "...there's a right way, a wrong way, and there's my way...." Or do you not find it strange that "Pro-Life" holds a fetus' existence much more dear than that of the mother or anyone who may disagree with their way of believing? I also find it strange their tactics haven't changed one iota over the years. Label the opposition "Pro-Abortion" and then intimidate (or whatever works)until your point has been driven home. Believe me, there is no one alive (no that was not an attempt at a pun) who is "Pro-Abortion." The correct designation is "Pro-Choice." But because "Pro-Lifers" can't mount a suitable defense against someone actually having a choice in the matter they call it "Pro-Abortion." Stranger still, since they can't mount a reasonable campaign against a faction known as "Pro-Choice" they insist the opposition "Choose Life." Only of the fetuses though, certainly not of anyone who would dare go against their 'holy' ideals. Thank you for your time and attention, Woody

I can't decide what I think about this cartoon yet. I need more coffee. I agree with EaTn's statement 100%. I think I may be a bit offended that it draws a connection between Tiller's murder and pro-life people.

How about this? Murder? I'm charged with double murder if I kill a pregnant woman. It's not murder if the same woman has an abortion. ??

To agree with what a couple of others said, I, too, am pro-life. I think there are some circumstances where an abortion may be necessary, and I believe the option should be available for those instances. Partial birth abortion, however, is horrid. It is murder, and it literally sickens me to think about it. I do not see how Dr. Tiller was, and the doctors at the other two clinics in this country who perform partial birth abortions are, able to carry out such horrendous acts. That being said, murder does not justify murder. I DO NOT agree with the murder of Dr. Tiller, as despicable a human being as he was. Two wrongs never make a right, and the pro-life movement definitely loses credibility and steam when these types of things happen. I was going to college in Birmingham when the abortion clinic there was bombed. That was wrong as well. And even though I think the doctor's killing was totally unacceptable, it is ridiculous to BLAME the pro-life movement for it happening. There is only ONE person to blame, and that is the killer himself. The finger of ONE man pulled the trigger on that gun.

I'll accept the premise of that cartoon, Clay, if you'll make another that says "Millions of Unborn Children" on a door with a bulls eye and a guy in a Pro Choice T-Shirt...You can't have it both ways my friend.

Clay, Did you ever play darts, as each week your sharp, thought provoking cartoons seem to "hit the target". And, like last week's, I'm always nearly ready to roll off my computer chair with laughter (even with topics that are serious and touchy). Play on, as we need to be awakened; so we too can take aim at today's problems. Thanks

SCOTTYM stated, "It is easy pickings on the pro-life supporters because, by-and large, we are a peaceful bunch. "

December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida are bombed.

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest.

August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas.

June 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside of a facility in Pensacola.

December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts.

December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings.

December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood.

October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.

January 29, 1998: Security guard killed in bombing of an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama.

October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York.

October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

May 28, 2000: An arson sets fire to a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire.

September 30, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic then pulled out an ax before being shot at by a security guard.

June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, WA.

July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson.

December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana.

September 13, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan crashed his car into clinic in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and then started a fire.

April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas.

May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque.

January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, rammed a SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.

repeat: "There is NO justification for what happened to Dr. Tiller." That said,

aae1049, You were making sense until that third paragraph.

"As a women(sic), I find men trying to dictate whether a women(sic) should be mandated to bear children as somewhat perplexing. Women’s organizations should focus on legislation for mandated vasectomies to avoid unplanned pregnancies in the first place? I do not hear men advocating to address the source of the problem."

Pray tell, what in the world are you writing about? Who is forcing anyone to bear children? As for mandated vasectomies, I'm not cool with the government mandating much of anything, but would you be OK with mandated tubal ligation as well? Finally, I'm a man and I will advocate that people who are not ready to have kids should not be engaging in unprotected sex. That is the source of the problem, is it not?

woody, ..... "Pro-Life" holds a fetus' existence (exactly equally as) dear (as) that of the mother or anyone who may disagree with their way of believing...

Fixed it for you.

"Believe me, there is no one alive... who is "Pro-Abortion".

Really, aren't you, yourself, advocating for abortion?

From dictionary.com "pro- a prefix indicating favor for some party, system, idea, etc., without identity with the group (pro-British; pro-Communist; proslavery), having anti- as its opposite.

As for clinging to the "Pro-choice" moniker, there really is someone other than the mother with a very serious interest in the decision. Someone is going to live or die based on that decision. Where is their choice?

Sailorman says, "I'm charged with double murder if I kill a pregnant woman. It's not murder if the same woman has an abortion. ??"

There you go bringing logic into it, tsk tsk, that isn't fair./sarc/ Don't you know you can change reality by simply changing your mind?/sarc/

toonfan, 22 instances in 25 years. How many resulted in a death? Six? Can you tell us how many abortions have been performed in the last 25 years to give us some perspective?

Again, I am not advocating violence. Every death is a tragedy, and the perpetrators should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

How many acts of arson have fringe environmental groups engaged in over the last 25 years? Shall we lump all those who advocate environmental responsibility in with them?

P.S. Was the Dr. Tiller in '93 the same one?

scottym wrote: "I have no way of knowing if Clay is on board with the media's ideology on this, or merely acting as illustrator for their storyline. I would like to think it is the second."

I hate to disappoint you, scotty, but I don't illustrate anyone's storyline but my own.

Clay

toonfan, More to the point of what I said "It is easy pickings on the pro-life supporters because, by-and large, we are a peaceful bunch. "

You listed 21 plus this latest,=22. If only 1/3 of the people in this country are pro-life(100million), that is 1 homicidal whacko for every 16+ million pro-life supporters. Do you realize that the average murder rate in the U.S. is around 4 per 100,000?

I believe my assertion stands.

Quote: "As a women, I find men trying to dictate whether a women should be mandated to bear children as somewhat perplexing. Women’s organizations should focus on legislation for mandated vasectomies to avoid unplanned pregnancies in the first place? I do not hear men advocating to address the source of the problem."

That is about one of the stupidest things I have ever read. To suggest the source of the "problem" is a non sterile male is beyond illogical. The source of the "pregnancy" is unprotected sex by 2 people, who are equally responsible for the result. Unless he held a gun to your head or a knife to your throat, you allowed that fluid to be placed in your body, and started the chain of events that may allow nature to take it's course. So the female's choices are as much to blame as the non sterile male who made a bad decision along with her. There is no single "source of the problem," rather a complicated sequence of events that leads to a pregnancy. Arguing that there should be mandated vasectomies to stop the problem at the source defies your own pro-choice logic.

The overwhelming majority of abortions are a simple cop out for not wanting to deal with the consequences of the actions and poor decisions that caused the pregnancy. A very dramatic consequence yes, but sometimes very simple mistakes have very dramatic fall out. People are forced to live with the consequences of mistakes and decisions that take just seconds every day.

The problem is once there is a pregnancy it is no longer exclusively "your body." It is now being shared temporarily by another human being.

I think the bigger issue here is that for the pro-choice crowd the baby, that defenseless human, is viewed as an inanimate object, a worthless fetus that can be disposed of at will. You don't have to be even remotely religious to realize that that baby is a life and worthy of the same protection that the Dr. deserved.

If even the smallest percentage of people who are pro-life were like this murderer there would be no abortion Dr's, they would all be dead. Think about it there are millions of people who consider themselves pro-life if even .000001% of them were willing to murder for that ideology, there would simply be no abortion Dr's alive, period. We just happen to believe that the unborn baby has the same right to live as Dr. Tiller, and therefore value life far more than any pro-choice advocates do by definition. Murder is murder, there just happens some forms of it that are currently legal, and because we live in the USA we have to live with that (for now). For a pro-choice advocate the only lives worth protecting are those who have been chosen to not be aborted, wow, kinda arbitrary....what if you had been.

toonfan I'm not getting into a "posting the link" contest with you but a simple internet search will give you plenty of examples showing the "anti-abortion" people aren't the only ones capable of violence. The pro-choice crowd has its share of criminals as well. And no it doesn't have anything to do with counting abortions themselves as violence.

Clay

I hate to disappoint you, scotty, but I don't illustrate anyone's storyline but my own.

If you are in fact drawing a relationship between the pro-life community and the murder of Dr Tiller by one common criminal, probably nuts, then I have to say it's disappointing to me. Your always controversial cartoons provoke good, if sometimes heated, discussions. They also always illustrate a reasonable position on which both sides have legitimate points. This one just fans sensationalist flames.

What about the 60,000 babies this cold hearted killer murdered in his life time ? 60,000 defenseless babies,weeks from birth and life and all the wonderful things that go along with it. Maybe the cure for cancer, maybe the cure for aids, maybe an efficient energy source. Who knows what potential Tiller slaughtered.

Tiller sowed the wind and reaped the whirl wind. His killer isnt the only murderer in this equation.

Abortion of any kind is murder. If you dont want a baby, keep your legs together. Its the responsible thing.

SCOTTYM writes: "P.S. Was the Dr. Tiller in '93 the same one?"

Yes. He was shot through both arms while leaving his clinic by car by a woman.

SCOTTYM writes to Clay: "This one just fans sensationalist flames."

Clay's fanning flames about the Pro-Lifers. Well, I guess what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

toonfan, "Yes. He was shot through both arms while leaving his clinic by car by a woman."

And he went back to it. That is dedication. Or insanity.

"SCOTTYM writes to Clay: "This one just fans sensationalist flames.""

Not me, though I wouldn't argue with the point.

"So easily manipulated by the media" sure hits the mark.

When the nightly Fox News entertainment shows paint the enemies of the right as "mass murderers", "left wing loons", or "harmful to America", then release as much personal information as possible with the advice that they "must be stopped", it should surprise no one that a weak minded individual will step up to play the "hero".

Distancing themselves from their handiwork after the fact is just a legal move.

ElSharpo-

Yours is exactly the kind of rhetoric that is the problem. George Tiller was not a murderer, he was a doctor performing a legal medical procedure. Third term abortions can only be preformed if the mother's life is threatened, yet, this critical service is now (because of the fear of retaliation) being practiced by only three, correction, two doctors nationwide.

Dr. Tiller was not a murderer. He was a hero.

Despite having been shot through both arms by some nutcase in the early 1990's, he continued to practice. Despite having his own life, and the life of his family threatened, he persisted in his duty. He lived in a gated community and went to work in a bulletproof vest every day and (because of Pro-Life intimidation) yet remained undeterred in his commitment to his patients.

He showed more courage than most of us are even capable of.

I want you all to go to this link:

http://www.dr-tiller.com/biography.htm

If this is not a dossier for someone to use to snuff this Doctor, I don't know what it is. It includes surveillance photos, information (and a map) to his home, the church he attends, even his vacation home, and lots of videos. Everything you'd need if you wanted to make absolutely sure you had the right man in your sites.

JohnnyRingo - Yeah Fox goes off the deep end sometimes - and they end up in the water with MSNBC and the 3 networks. None of them are clean.

toonfan for crying out loud - your tinfoil hat is showing. This is worse than the great right (or left) wing conspiracy.

toonfan@12:45, That is along the same lines as Commercial Appeal's little HCP database, eh? Just taken to an extreme. I totally agree it is morally wrong. I doubt it is illegal, or else it would not be there. Isn't your argument that the Dr. was engaged in a legal practice.

There are always going to be crazies about. By doing the highly controversial job he was engaged in, the late Dr. placed a target for crazies on himself.

repeat, again: "There is NO justification for what happened to Dr. Tiller."

Sailorman:"your tinfoil hat is showing"- that's classic. I couldn't just vote comment useful, had to leave a comment. Same goes for your view on Fox News. I watch Fox, but your exactly right, none of the channels are innocent. Radicals sell newspapers and get folks clicking the mouse. All media outlets know this and feed off it. Its up to the reader/watcher to see past the BS.

Maybe the right side of he TFP should show a drawing of a fully developed late term fetus with a bulls-eye on it and the figure next to it showing a likeness of Dr. Tiller wearing a tee shirt with the inscription, "Pro-Choice". Death is final and forever, at any age.

Sailorman, good point earlier!! When Scott Peterson killed his pregnant wife several years ago, he was charged with the death of her AND the unborn child. The child was considered a person whose life had been taken. So that was murder, but late-term abortion is different HOW? Thanks for a great point!

Personally, I think some Pro-life groups do incite violence. They do this by calling abortion doctors murderers. I've seem some posts above that hint that abortion doctors are murderers.

I think an unstable person like this shooter will confuse a rhetoric-driven call for justice as a call for justifiable homicide.

All that being said, I think unstable persons of any ilk is at risk of being incited to violence by passionate peers.

Strong rhetoric and homocidal maniacs are not a good mix.

Huh and SCOTTYM,

Prolife men should take care of the problem at the source with visectomies (sp) and there would be no need for abortion. Rather than men dictate that a women cannot abort a pregnacy, take care of the problem from the source that is causing unplanned pregnancy and women seeking abortion. Sorry, if this does not make sense to you guys, it does to many women.

Like it or not that is my perspective.

Qutoe: "Prolife men should take care of the problem at the source with visectomies (sp) and there would be no need for abortion. Rather than men dictate that a women cannot abort a pregnacy, take care of the problem from the source that is causing unplanned pregnancy and women seeking abortion. Sorry, if this does not make sense to you guys, it does to many women.

Like it or not that is my perspective."

Well you can have your perspective even if it is wrong. Just what is your perspective on that disposable life? Why is your life not disposable? If while in the womb you were given a choice would you have chosen to die?

Just FYI, I do have a vasectomy and unfortunately for her my wife has had to have a hysterectomy so we have no source. However, you have the option to not have unprotected sex and or receive a tubal ligation yourself to cut off YOUR source. As I stated earlier there is no single source of a pregnancy it takes 2 parts. To assert that there is a single source to a pregnancy, well is just stupid. Furthermore, there are plenty of women that are pro-life, millions and millions. So don't hide your lame argument behind your gender.

My wife and I dated through High School and College got married and after 5 years of marriage had our first of 2 beautiful children. We used several methods of birth control over the years, and upon deciding to stop using birth control conceived in one month both times. Point being, had we not been so responsible we would have been pregnant perhaps 10 years sooner. But we were responsible, and never even had a scare not once.

Your assertion that pro-life men should get prophylactic vasectomies and it would solve all unwanted pregnancies is beyond stupid. For one, what about all the men who are like you and don't care how many disposed of fetuses are out there? How about this all females should have an IUD implanted by the government when they have their first period. Then have to apply for removal of it to conceive that, would solve the problem at the source the egg...sounds really stupid doesn't it.... your logic not mine.

There are moral laws that transcend the current laws of the land, or the laws of mankind. In Saudi Arabia its legal for 40 year old men to marry 12 year old girls. Im not going to argue with the law, but merely ask the question. Is that morally right ?

Even though the law of the land cannot call Tiller a murderer can he not be labeled such under moral law ? He takes human life. Whats the difference between abortion and murdering a new born baby in its hospital bed ? What is the difference ? Killing a baby is killing a baby,whether you want to call it murder or not. Merriam Webster defines killing as "depriving of life" . Tiller deprived innocent children of life, he was a killer.

Dare I say it ? Theres probably alot of newborn babies who are safer now that he's gone.

Just as I dont agree with Tiller killing babies, neither do I agree with Tiller's murderer killing Tiller. Morality is morality and you cant justify or explain away a moral evil. You cant commit a wrong to commit a right, and its never right to do wrong.

Why does the left rabidly defend abortion anyway ? Why cant you people admit its killing and we all need to do something to begin limiting it and ending it all together ? Its a holocaust and a black stain on our Nation and culture. Abortion is to our society what slavery was to 19th century America. The differance is ,back then even slaveholders realised the moral problems associated with keeping slaves. Today few people have the moral fortitude to call abortion what it is.Its Killing,its wanton and brutal slaughter.

Liberalism is a religion, and abortion is its sacrament .

ElSharpo, Abortion is killing. I've said that all along. I've never shied away from it. When you abort a fetus, you kill it. It was alive. Now it's dead.

The main question is, does a woman have a right to choose whether to kill her fetus? If so, when does that right stop and what is the logic behind this cut-off?

These are difficult questions to answer once you acknowledge that this is killing. That may be the reason why some pro-choice people try to deflect it.

I think such a deflection dishonors the sacrifice that the fetus is making for the benefit of another.

95% of the women seeking an abortion had a choice. Clothes On or Clothes Off. If you aren't smart enough to practice birth control, you probably should not be breeding in the first place.

I am not for abortion, except in certain cases.

I visited a hospital that contained nothing but helpless, brainless, bed-ridden, adult patients that had lived for years, non-thinking, drooling, and that would NEVER produce anything worthwhile, and certainly not even able to recognize their own existance. Some of them might reach the mental age of two, clutching a toy teddy bear as they are wheeled around on a stretcher.

I'm not God! I'm not a physician! How can I judge whether an abortion should take place, or not.

There are the abortions of rape.

There are the abortions of babies, who if born, would spend a lifetime of pain and abuse from either or both parents who did not want them, and were lucky if their lifetime extended into adulthood.

I cannot fathom the thinking of the man who killed Dr. Tiller, except that perhaps HE was suffering from a god complex, or had a vigilante outlook.

I don't know Dr. Tiller's motives for engaging in an abortion practice, whether it was a desire for money alone or a sincere desire to do something for desperate people. but I agree that the murder was a definitely unneeded statement.

Finally, I don't think men have to produce a baby just to prove they are men, even if that's their BIOLOGICAL purpose in being born.

I forgot to add that I believe proper and safe tubal ligation and vasectomies that can be safely reversed would be an answer. But the reversal MIGHT still lead to a life-form that would not be viable after birth.

I know a woman who had an abortion as a teen. She was pressured by the young father into having it done. For her, this procedure was more than a pregnancy termination. Complications from the procedure lead to a hysterectomy. She has battled depression for 30 years now and still cannot forgive herself for her actions. She was 18 and feels like she blew her only chance at motherhood. The guilt has ruined her life. What do you say when asked, why didn't you ever have children? I'm Pro-Life but two wrongs don't make a right. Tiller did not deserve to be gunned down.