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Staff Photo by John Rawlston The War Memorial building is seen at left in this view of the plaza leading up to the State Capitol building in Nashville. Tuesday was the opening day of the 2008 session of the 105th General Assembly of Tennessee.
NASHVILLE — The Tennessee House voted 69-27 Wednesday to override Gov. Phil Bredesen’s veto of a bill allowing people with handgun-carry permits to bring loaded weapons into establishments selling alcohol.
The override got more House votes than the 66-23 margin the original conference committee report on House Bill 962 earned.
“Tennessee’s No. 6 in the nation in violent crime,” bill sponsor Rep. Curry Todd, R-Collierville, later told reporters. “This gives folks an opportunity to protect themselves and their families. I did this for them, not me.”
It was the House’s first override of Gov. Bredesen and its first veto at all since 2001, when lawmakers overrode then-Gov. Don Sundquist’s veto of an appropriations bill.
Senate sponsor Doug Jackson, D-Dickson, said he intends to bring the measure up in the Senate today and expects the previous 24-7 margin to remain about the same.
The bill says armed permit holders may not drink alcohol in restaurants or bars. It also allows business owners to post signs banning guns from the premises.
Critics question the law’s enforceability.
Gov. Bredesen was flanked by more than 40 law enforcement officers, including Chattanooga Police Chief Freeman Cooper, when he vetoed the bill last week, saying alcohol and guns “don’t mix.”
Bredesen spokeswoman Lydia Lenker said in a statement the governor has acknowledged the override would likely succeed, but he “stands by his decision to veto the bill.”
“He’s disappointed with this action but that doesn’t change his belief that we can exercise our Second Amendment rights and common sense at the same time,” she said.
In the governor’s view, the bill “doesn’t provide the proper safeguards to ensure public safety,” she said.
During debate, House Speaker Emeritus Jimmy Naifeh, D-Covington, urged the House to sustain Gov. Bredesen’s veto. He cited support from law enforcement officials.
"Reasonable people, when they've had a little bit to drink, do silly things,” Rep. Naifeh said. “Silly people with firearms can be dangerous.”
House Republican Caucus Chairman Glen Casada of College Grove countered that, under the current law, having “armed citizens” in establishments serving alcohol would make Tennessee safer.
“As it stands now, the bad guys are bringing guns into restaurants, killing people,” he said.
Earlier in the day, Rep. Todd welcomed National Rifle Association national director and Tennessee native Chris Cox, who sat in the House gallery.
After listening to one critic who kept reading remarks by police chiefs and Tennessee Hospitality Association officials opposed to the bill, House Speaker Kent Williams said it was time to move on.
“You’re not going to change anybody’s vote, and if you’re here to showboat, you’re in the wrong place,” he said.
Rep. Tommie Brown, D-Chattanooga, voted against the bill, as did Rep. JoAnne Favors, D-Chattanooga.
“I’m scared,” she said. “This is a scary place. This is a scary state.”
Rep. Eric Watson, R-Cleveland, a Bradley County Sheriff’s Department lieutenant, stood beside Rep. Todd as he presented the bill.
“Of course, the governor has nothing to worry about in restaurants because he’s surrounded by armed guards all the time,” Rep. Watson said.
“You’ve got to protect yourself everywhere now.”
Andy Sher is a Nashville-based staff writer covering Tennessee state government and politics for the Times Free Press. A Washington correspondent from 1999-2005 for the Times Free Press, Andy previously headed up state Capitol coverage for The Chattanooga Times, worked as a state Capitol reporter for The Nashville Banner and was a contributor to The Tennessee Journal, among other publications. Andy worked for 17 years at The Chattanooga Times covering police, health care, county government, ...
Just won't get it right will you Andy?
(A) Authorized to carry a firearm under § 39-17-1351 who is not consuming beer, wine or any alcoholic beverage, and is within the confines of a RESTAURANT that is open to the public, serves alcoholic beverages, wine or beer,
(B) As used in this subdivision (c)(3), “restaurant” means any public place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held out to the public as a place where meals are served and where meals are actually and regularly served, such place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room equipment, having employed therein a sufficient number and kind of employees to prepare, cook and serve suitable food for its guests. At least one (1) meal per day shall be served at least five (5) days a week, with the exception of holidays, vacations and periods of redecorating, and THE SERVING OF SUCH MEALS SHALL BE THE PRINCIPAL BUSINESS CONDUCTED.
Specifies "restaurants"
no mention of bars or lounges
Defines "restaurant" for the purpose of the bill. How many "bars or lounges" meet that requirement? Darn few I would bet. If you know of any, please list them.
Here's where people on the 2A side have a problem with Chief Cooper and media people like you. The article, as have been the majority, is titled "guns-in-bars." In his interview, Cooper used the term "restaurant" once and followed it immediately with "and bars". ALL other references he made during the video were to "bars". I see that as disingenuous at best and the deliberate fomenting of hysteria at worst. Resorting to this kind of hyperbole doesn't inspire confidence in either the media or Cooper. I guess the adage applies "If it bleeds, it leads"
Thanks to all the representatives who are keeping me safe?
I didn't realize that gun violence was such a problem in Tennessee restaurants and bars that we must arm citizens.
I guess I've spent the last 30-40 years eating in the wrong restaurants and bars, because I've never seen a firearm in any of them. Never seen a stabbing, either.
I've seen some threatening behavior that was always diffused without weapons. I wonder how things would have been differnt in those situations had guns been present.
I ask the TN Senate to overide this unconstitutional veto with due diligence and honor to the 2nd Amendment- "... the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Hey Moonie, that was the thinking of the people in Luby's resturant in Texas and McDonalds in San Diego. Youv'e probably never seen a tree grow, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Please wear a name tag so if I am ever in the same resturant as you and some criminal with an illegal gun goes nuts, I wan't to be sure who not to protect,
Moonie, the interesting part is that there was undoubtedly firearms present when you were eating, but the law abiding citizens carrying them don't feel the need to inpress anyone by showing them off unless the moment calls for it. How do you feel now? Never mind I don't want to know but I am sure you never considered that aspect of eating out.
enuf,
Law abiding citizens weren't carrying in the places I'm talking about.
Guns weren't allowed. So it was against the law. So if they were carrying, they weren't law abiding, were they?
Can't have it both ways.
It's also quite probable that no one was carrying on those nights. Permit holders would have stayed away... if you believe some of our friends who indicate that permit holders are 100% law-abiding.
That being said, yes, a homocidal maniac can storm a restuarant. The odds are staggering. But it does happen.
(Homocidal maniacs also gun down armed police officers at routine traffic stops.)
Apparently law-makers believe violence in bars is now sufficient to allow guns to be carried there. I just haven't seen it.
As for the name tag.... is that a subtle way of saying you hope I die? Wow. Even though, we may disagree, I hope I would risk my life to save other innocents.
mcdonalds serves alcohol in san diego? Wow.
Again, I've seen several bar fights break out, and I'm really glad that someone didn't grab a gun and start shooting and hit bystanders.
And again, if you are so afraid to enter a "restaurant" that you have to carry a gun, maybe you shouldn't go. I just don't get that.
I'm sorry that people are so afraid.
The state of Tennessee has all kinds of laws regulating how, when, where and what conditions alcohol can be served. Presumably, there's something to do with safety involved in that.
Where are my 21st amendment rights??
If it is safe enough to have guns around serving alcohol, then there are lot of other state laws that should be repealed.
First of all, 21 year drinking age. If it is safe to have guns around, then surely it is safe to have people old enough to go to war, get married, etc. to have a beer.
Second, smoking illegal in restaurants. Seriously? It isn't dangerous to have guns around alcohol, but smoking is going to hurt somebody? Really? You can't even smoke in a restaurant, but you can carry a gun. That shows who has lobby money I guess.
Let's see. Why stop serving alcohol at 2 AM? How is that not safe?
In Tennessee you can't even buy a bottle of beer and a bottle of wine in the same store. Who came up with that? That makes no sense. Just a bizarre law. Beer with alcohol over 5% is treated as liquor. Why limit my freedom?
In Tennessee every single person must show an ID to buy a beer. Even if you are 90 years old. That is a limit to my right to privacy. I shouldn't have to do that. If it is safe to have guns around, why should I have to show an ID.
In Tennessee, it is against the law for a passenger in a vehicle to have an open container. Or even for a passenger in a vehicle to have high levels of blood alcohol. So how can it be safe for me to drink around strangers carrying guns, but not safe for me to drink around somebody I know who is driving a vehicle? Seriously - how is it not safe for people to drink while someone else is driving?
No alcohol sales on Sunday morning. What could possibly be the rationale for that?
So the state can come up with every kind of silly law to regulate who and how and when alcohol can be served, but if somebody is scared and wants to bring a guy with them to help their wittle feelings that should be ok.
Luby's and mcdonalds.
Here are some links:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510475,00.html?sPage=fnc/health/mentalhealth
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090310161422.htm
http://www.parentsbehavingbadly.com/2008/11/18/drunk-gun-cleaning-kills-six-year-old/
http://www.mainlinemedianews.com/articles/2009/06/03/king_of_prussia_courier/news/doc4a1d4b12c5ec0099714650.txt
http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/morning-98668-condition-aggravated.html
http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/courier_times/courier_times_news_details/article/28/2009/june/04/man-on-trial-for-shooting-son.html
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/metro/295671.php
http://www.jacksonvilleprogress.com/religion/local_story_154204844.html
http://www.wptz.com/news/19616408/detail.html
And on, and on. Pretty much, guns and alcohol don't mix. It is hard to find examples of some random person shooting in a restaurant, but it is really easy to find examples of people drinking and shooting somebody. I don't get how anybody thinks guns and alcohol are a good idea.
The good news is that restaurant owners will be able to post "no gun" allowed signs, and I am sure that most will and it won't be a problem limiting my family to those places. It will end up being a moot point.
“You’ve got to protect yourself everywhere now.” “As it stands now, the bad guys are bringing guns into restaurants, killing people,” he said.
I think this are reckless, dangerous, irresponsible remarks.
Humphrey, no one is forcing you to stay in TN. When you do move though, just make sure you don't choose to move to one of the other 30+ states that allow concealed carry holders to carry their weapons into restaurants that serve alcohol. Apparently you can't handle the idea of being close to a firearm in the hands of a law-abiding citizen.
No, guns and alcohol don't mix, that's why the bill says that no one carrying a gun into an establishment serving alcohol shall be allowed to drink.
redbeard,
Although it is a concern, people opposed to this bill aren't as worried about the permit holder drinking.
We're more worried about the gun in the establishment.
A beligerent jerk antagonsizes a non-drinking permit holder. The possibility of a gun becoming unholstered increaes, either accidentally in a scuffle or other wise.
This is the mix I'm more concerned with.
I think most people would walk away in that situation...plus you keep harping on the low percentage of permit holders in the states. Therefore, the odds of a drunk antagonizing one of these people becomes even less. I'm done discussing fear driven what if's.
moonpie, have you ever been to the range and fired a gun? What about actually read the rules and regulations concerning carry in TN? How about picking up a pamphlet and reading about what it takes to become a permit holder? Do you know anyone who carries or have you ever talked to a permit holder in person? I know my fair share of lawyers, doctors, housewives, upper level managers, line workers, etc who are permit holders. You may be surprised at the people who you associate with that actually have a permit.
As a permit holder, I am less worried about the gun in the restaurant as bringing the gun in. Most crimes at restaurants would be getting robbed either entering or exiting through the parking lot. I was almost robbed at the Chop House a few years ago while leaving. Since I had to leave my gun in the car, there was nothing I could do.
brandon,
You assume a lot.
I have had weapons traning. I own several guns. My friends and I shoot every few months. I will shoot more frequently when Montlake reopens.
I have read the laws.
Three members of my family are permit carriers and they all oppose this law. My brother is a firearms safety instructor. My mother owns an assult rifle (it is fun to shoot).
I have several friends who have permits. The one's I've talked to oppose this law. One is a judge.
I imagine that my friend who produces tactical illuminators for handguns and machine guns opposes this law, as he has received several NRA awards for recruiting. But he does not live in Tennessee.
So the answer to most of your questions above is, "yes."
A final thought, brandon, you say you're done with "the fear driven what ifs." It's the fear of "what ifs" that is driving this law through the legislature. The legislators themselves have said as much!
I meant to say my friend who makes tactical illuminators approves this law.....
60 worfs a minute leads to errs, somtims.
Moonpie, my brother is a 20+ year veteran of the state bureau of investigation and my brother-in-law is a deputy sheriff and they have no problem with the law as written. You really think it is dangerous for me, a non-drinker to enter Outback Steakhouse, with my firearm?
I don't understand how any permit holder in their right mind could oppose this law. It is their right to be able to protect their loved ones walking through parking lots, around towns and in restaurants, just as such as it is in their homes. I am starting to think your family does not have their permits for the right reasons. Do they not carry around town? What if they want to stop to grab a bite to eat at Kanpai, Logan's, Olive Garden, etc and must disarm? They see no issue with this?
I have several friends & family members as well who are sheriffs, retired police officers, SWAT members, military servicemen and just average Joes with permits who are all in favor of this law. I have also spoken with restaurant owners who are very pro-2A and have no problems with this bill.
Well it's all over, for now. Senate overrode the veto.
Congratulations to those who supported the bill. You won.
brandon, the "right" reasons to carry?
You don't get to pick and choose those in a free society. Sorry.
When some type "A" personality carries a gun in a bar, with a permit, and shoots some guy whom he thinks is flirting with his wife, will the "gunneys" and our legislators just say "Oops, sorry about that."?
Thats Right Moonie, the law abiding citizens won so you and Humpy can quit dribbleing. See ya at dinner, I will have my gun on but you will never notice
I'm wondering how not allowing gun carriers to drink will be enforced. Will bars have a doorman who frisks patrons before entering? Will the server ask the patron to expose any possible firearms before serving a drink? If a person is to be drinking while holding a gun, what will be the consequences? It seems that there will need to be extra help around establishments that choose to allow guns on their premises. Business won't increase, so how during our time of layoffs and furloughs will there be accountability on the businesses which choose to participate when hiring is down to begin with? I just don't see how this can be enforced. Are we going to have to walk through metal detectors to grab a burger at Applebees?
And what about an intoxicated gun holder entering an establishment? Will there be a required sobriety test before entering said establishment? We are told that alcohol cannot be served to a gun holder, but there is nothing stopping a gun holder from drinking beforehand. For this law to be properly enforced, there will be a much greater invasion of privacy. When it comes to bringing weapons into public places, giving the benefit of the doubt just doesn't cut it.
My wife and I just went to a local restaurant that serves alcohol with our firearms for the first time. They were selling beer and wine and liquor but we don't drink so we just went for the fajitas. I am proud to say that not one time did we draw on anyone, hurt anyone, or draw attention to ourselves. Also, if there were other permit holders carrying, I did not see it as there was no gun play at all. It seems that all the nervous nelly's out there can breathe a sigh of relief.
hcjn84, I would gladly submit to any sobriety test as I don't drink. This is of course if all the people at Applebee's and other places take one before they can leave to go get in their large vehicles that can crash into my car that has 6 people in it and can kill us all in one failed swoop. Personally, if alcohol is such a bad thing I don't see how you people can want to drive on roads where people leave after drinking all the time. Is a car so much safer than my gun? Where is your outrage over DUI deaths?
I wish I had stock in making "NO GUNS ALLOWED" signs, because you are about to see them all over.
Any one who owns a restaurant will be a fool not to post one.
If someone ever gets shot in a restaurant, and the owner had the option to post a sign but didn't, that is going to be a mess.
"Apparently you can't handle the idea of being close to a firearm in the hands of a law-abiding citizen."
Brandon, I am not the one so afraid I want to carry a gun with me to a restaurant.
Brock, brock, brock.
Humphrey, I call it being prepared, not afraid. Do you have car insurance, health insurance, home insurance, a fire extinguisher? You must be afraid of getting sick, in an accident or having your house catch on fire.
People getting shot in restaurants by permit holders has not been a problem in the 36 other states that allow it. Why will TN be any different? I carried into a restaurant that served alcohol in Alabama last week and guess what...my gun stayed holstered and didn't automatically start going off just because there was alcohol within a 100' radius.
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