This tree should have been chopped down long before it got so big (and sucked so much money from the American taxpayers).

What the cartoon doesn't show is the tree's hundreds and hundreds of unseen intertwining roots that wrap around the SEIU and reach all the way to the Oval Office.

I can't and won't defend Acorn other than to say they represent a small distraction from Wall Street,our core problem. The deregulated leveraged financial monster we call Wall Street has sucked down trillions in tax dollars and guarantees and has virtual control over our government by virtue of money. Acorn is but a pimple compared to the erupting carbuncle that is Wall Street.

Acorn should be cleaned up and maybe abolished,but some form of Main Street voice for the disenfranchised has a place in America.

The ACORN "scandal" is the Reddest Of The Red Herrings, in a contemptuous teapot. There has never been a more convenient (nor benign) straw man whipping boy to distract from the wholesale larceny and corruption of those spewing their venomous vitriol during their juvenile kabuki theater, manufacturing specious outrage for their mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging base, while they stuff their payola in offshore accounts.

This is the pot calling a stainless steel kettle (with some rust stains on it) black.

ACORN receives one half of 1% (or less) of government funding of any one corporate welfare recipient you can name. MUCH less if we are talking about the platinum-gilded, diamond encrusted "health insurance" hyenas who pay almost no taxes, but have a government-protected monopoly. We must change that, pronto.

Forcing citizens to buy their worthless "insurance" is Corporate COMMUNISM, Period.

This cartoon is simply brilliant.

It's a very clever clever twist on "throwing out the baby with the bath water."

If we held health insurance companies to the same standards as ACORN, we'd have republicans clamoring to overhaul the U.S. Healthcare system rather than being lobbyist for the insurance industry!

This cartoon typifies the desperation of Obama's opponents. They latch onto blemishes and blow them completely out of proportion so they may use them as "talking points" and "proof" that Obama is evil. Whether the scandal is pervasive within ACORN, I don't know. If it is, then the "tree" needs to be cut down. Will we hold other institutions to this standard? Historically, the answer is "No."

For those who will start screaming "LIBERAL!": Both sides use this tactic. My comments are about the cartoon.

BluesHarp somehow came up with this gem: "Forcing citizens to buy their worthless "insurance" is Corporate COMMUNISM, Period."

1. Currently, nobody is forced to buy insurance. It wasn't until the Democrats came into power that forcing citizens to buy insurance was a topic of discussion.

2. It is not the government's place to force its citizens to buy a consumer product just for being a citizen, whether from the private marketplace OR the government. Highly unconstitutional, but we all know that doesn't matter to Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the rest.

3. Since 85% of Americans are pleased with their current health insurance coverage, I submit that your contention of insurance being worthless is completely inaccurate. That, along with all of your other hysterical hyperbole, only shows you to be the unthinking, rhetoric-spewing leftist that you are.

Back to the topic of the cartoon (wouldn't want alprova to start ranting again about people going off-topic), Clay made a mistake by only showing one snake in a tree that is infested with snakes, many of which take money from your and my paychecks. ACORN is only a distraction in the sense that Afghanistan is a distraction ...something that needs to be decisively dealt with, not put off to the side because the Democrats are too obsessed with forcing an expensive and uneccesary government healthcare program down our throats.

By the way, why does this wonderful government healthcare program not take effect until 2013? Perhaps because Obama and the Dems know they would not stand a snowball's chance in hell of being re-elected if the citizens were subjected to this disaster before 2012?

Yes, I know, I spelled "unnecessary" incorrectly in my previous post. So sue me.

This cartoon insults the dignity of all good and upstanding oak trees.

While there are some bigger issues out there, I don't understand why so many across the media are not investigating this more than they are. This isn't some ragtag group, this is a collection of 400,000 people who use the crutch of claiming to be a public service to push progressive political ideology. It appeals to low and middle income families by letting them think they deserve more or should get more because they are a victim of culture or society.

While there are always sad stories, too many people choose to be the victim when they are simply not. I've seen opposite ends of the spectrum even within my own extended family - one who had worked two jobs to support four boys, another who held a full-time job but was constantly in debt, spending more on makeup and cat food than on food for herself. Never one complaint from the first, always an excuse from the latter.

"There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better for worse as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on the plot of ground which is given him to till." - Ralph Waldo Emerson, taken from his essay "Self-Reliance"

Lightenup said:

1. Since 85% of Americans are pleased with their current health insurance coverage, I submit that your contention of insurance being worthless is completely inaccurate.

While I agree with 95% of your statements, I question this. Most people have insurance but few are pleased with it. However, your contentions are right on.

Hooray for Clay! He's the only cartoonist I've seen yet with the courage to depict this scandal for what it truly is... an opportunity to take down an honorable organization because of some insignificant scandal.

ACORN is, of course, an organization for which the Republicans have long-been gunning.

The scandal with the fake pimp and prostitute at the Baltimore field office of ACORN was stupid, no doubt, but it shouldn't serve to discredit an organization that has done some great work over the years. ACORN's real crime is that they have registered millions of people to vote. And since the group concentrates on registering poor and black voters, the GOP doesn't like that one bit.

You may remember US Attorney David Iglesias. In 2004, he was pressured by the Bush administration to investigate alleged voter registration fraud by ACORN in New Mexico. When he found no evidence to press charges, he was promptly fired. In all, nine US attorneys were fired for not doing the Bush administration's dirty work.

Now these two conservative hacks with a hidden camera have done what the entire Bush Justice Department could not, bring down an organization that empowers a group of voters that is more likely to support Democrats.

What hasn't been reported widely, is that the fraudulent sex workers visited ACORN offices in several different cities, dangling the same bait, but only got the Baltimore office to bite. Even in the Baltimore case, one of the ACORN workers on the videotape called the National City Police Department after the, now infamous, meeting. National City police confirmed that the ACORN office had contacted them, but said there was not enough information about the couple to file a formal report.

So now, the Congress has voted to withhold any federal funding from ACORN (an act that can be blamed on the cowardly Democrats as much as the Republicans) and many of the group's benefactors are rescinding their regular grants and donations to the group.

What's happening in the aftermath of this smear job is a shame, and we will all be the worse for it.

What Lightnup said. X2

I am baffled as to how anyone could defend such an organization, particularly after the recent videotaped incidents.

ACORN is not much more than a criminal organization. They exist to shake down banks for home loans, which will never be repaid, and to use federal tax dollars to support entitlement minded leftist politicians. The sooner this particular tree is felled, the better.

OllieH wrote,

"What hasn't been reported widely, is that the fraudulent sex workers visited ACORN offices in several different cities, dangling the same bait, but only got the Baltimore office to bite."

Me thinks someone isn't actually paying attention. There was more than one office that took the bait.

Ollie, your a nin com poop. You are telling lies, leaving out the truth, and just being plain dumb. Do you think it is OK to tell people and show people how to cheat the gov. and taxpayers out of their money? You are just plain sad.

As a whole, ACORN is about as honorable as Congress is fiscally responsible. And it was more than just an office in Baltimore, it was also in Washington DC, San Bernadino, San Diego, and New York. And if only "two conservative hacks" can exploit corruption within an organization of this size, it is easy to conclude the corruption only digs further.

If they aren't really willing to become an organization of upstanding character, I say chop it down.

Lightnup and aces25: Beautifully and intelligently said. Ollie, Ollie, Ollie. If you had only witnessed ALL the videos in Acorn offices instead of cutting and pasting the comments off KOS, you would have sounded better informed.

The Baltimore office, NYC office, San Bernandino office and Maryland office, plus more (not yet shown) were all caught advising illegal solutions to the fake prostitute and pimp. You also, conveniently forget to mention there are plenty of poor, white folks in this country who get no subsidies for racial status and certainly no attention from the media about their victim status. It took two 'little people' to take down a longtime, corrupt entity that was siphoning off our money.

Did KOS tell you guys that the two men at the top of ACORN were insidious corruptors who embezzled millions of dollars and got away scot-free? Of course not. The media complex you adore doesn't want to bore you with details, do they?

You forgot to mention the vitriol and threats of impeachment directed at Bush after his administration attempted to investigate and then fired the lawyers because the LAWYERS were biased themselves. In fact, Bush's years were also wasted many times by the DNC and the Left's henchmen subverting other investigations of great importance.

(Gee, where might we be, moneywise if FannieMae and FreddieMac, along with the SEC, all Democrats) had been held accountable and prosecuted toute suite as the Repubs were attempting to do. Bush's sin was he caved in to the Liberal/Left.
See, don't be a coward is our lesson today.

(IB: It's not my vanity, it's for humanity). Who said that?

Correction: I mentioned MD office twice, meant to write DC office and yes, the San Diego office was also a hit.

Little "distraction boys? ACORN was (and still may get) poised to receive 8.2 BILLION of our dollars soon. This 'Org' is guilty of massive voter fraud which impacts OUR elections. Is that OK with you guys as long as you all have the power?

Minimum of five, in as many major cities nationwide... Apparently, not a one anywhere called the cops.

To quote Doug Giles in his column, "Let me see if I have this right: ACORN, in five locations coast-to-coast are on tape counseling tax fraud, tax evasion, money laundering, and the coup de grace, how to set up a whorehouse for 12 to 15-year-old El Salvadoran sex slaves, and now ACORN and the Left are POed about it being exposed without ACORN’s consent?!"

I cannot believe there are people here who actually support child prostitution by NOT speaking out against it and NOT immediately condemning the organization that actively condones and encourages it, even to the point of providing advice on how to go about it. As demonstrated, this is a systemic problem within ACORN, not an abberation.

Makes one wonder about the attitude of those supporters here toward child pornography in general and NAMBLA in particular...defensive, no doubt.

This is one of the many reasons why I am a conservative. That and I have morals and ethics.

Sorry. The last sentence just slipped in there... Although it IS true.

canaryinthecoalmine writes, "This 'Org' is guilty of massive voter fraud.'

ABSOLUTELY FALSE! Not one fraudulent vote has ever been traced back to an ACORN registration.

OllieH, after your first post here I am not sure you should be making any more statements of absolute truth... =)

You are dead wrong about that OllieH. Do your research. Oh, nevermind, I did it for you:

http://spectator.org/blog/2009/06/04/ohio-prosecutor-acorn-voter-fr

ACORN VOTER FRAUD/ILLEGAL VOTING PROBE UNDERWAY

Darnell Nash, a voter in Cuyahoga County, Ohio, has been indicted by a grand jury for, among other things, illegal voting.

Nash was registered to vote by ACORN.

Ryan Miday, spokesman for Cuyahoga County, Ohio Prosecutor Bill Mason, a Democrat, just spoke with me.

Miday said an "investigation is continuing into activities by ACORN. Darnell Nash is the first we've charged in this ongoing investigation."

"ACORN workers approached him to fill out voter registration cards and he did so on nine different occasions using different names and addresses, then he actually registered and voted on Sept. 30 and voted with a different address and the address was an address here in the Cleveland area in a suburb called Shaker Heights."

OllieH,

Nice try on the semantics. CITCM wrote "voter fraud". There is plenty of evidence of "voter fraud" attributed to ACORN.

http://www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html

"2007 A man in Reynoldsburg(OH) was indicted on two felony counts of illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote in two separate counties."

You're wrong any way you try to spin the meaning of "voter fraud".

The tree itself is the scandal. Anyone who would defend Acorn at this point is simply a partisan hack.

Here's another one Ollie. I won't charge you for doing your research, but you need to stop claiming that there's been no voter fraud as a result of ACORN registration.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/ACORN_and_voter_registration_fraud

"In Reynoldsburg, Ohio, Claudel Gilbert was indicted on two felony counts of illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote in two separate counties. He pled guilty to the illegal voting charges..."

I stand corrected. Out of the millions of registered voters ACORN has been linked to actual voter fraud.

His name is Darnell Nash.

Let's put out a dragnet!

Obviously OllieH has gone so far left he could never turn right again... I feel really sad for you OllieH.

And thanks Lightnup and ScottyM for doing all that research. Nice to know someone does before they post.

Canary writes:

"See, don't be a coward is our lesson today."

Absolutely. It is so tough to be brave and honest.

The Emerson quote from "Self-Reliance" is a gem.

Everyone here should read their Emerson. America would be the better for recalling its secular scripture.

We Americans do have a heritage; we just get distracted by too many false idols and fast merchants.

I am reflecting on what happens when the cartoon is about different sorts of Partisan Prodigies.

Ann Coulter (yesterday) ACORN (today)

I have a tentative conclusion.

It seems to me that many posters to this discussion show different extremes of Idealism and Vanity when cartoons concern their own partisan prodigies, monstrosities, and scandals.

Ann Coulter cannot say anything wrong. ACORN is too honorable to question.
DESTROY the messenger who contradicts our view.

It also seems that there is a corollary.

It seems to me that many posters to this discussion show different extremes of Realism and Perspective when cartoons concern the opposition's prodigies, monstrosities, and scandals.

I think that Clay can get quite of bit of material and energy out of these polarizations.

If one side actually stopped mouthing off, listened, and learned something--anything--from the other side, Clay might be out of a job.

But that will not happen because Power and Vanity are involved.

OK, so Claudel Gilbert of Ohio tried to vote twice, also.

But still, 2 cases of actual voter fraud! It seems like much ado about nothing. I will admit that my initial assertion was wrong, however, and I humbly apologize to canaryinthecoalmine. There have been at least two cases of actual voter fraud connected to an ACORN registered voter.

Now, I agree with all you ACORN haters. They must be stopped! Who knows how those two votes might have swayed an election.

The point Ollie is that the voter fraud would not have happened without the rapant ACORN voter registration fraud. (Time for you to drag Mr. Sproul out again, even though it does not negate the ACORN fraud.)

Ollie Your sarcasum,sp, is right on par with your research.

OllieH,

How many times could ACORN break the law and subvert the notion of fair elections before it would become unacceptable to you?

A careful study of human nature will show that a person or group who is willing to break the law and subvert society one time will likely do it again and again so long as there is little or no price to pay beyond the initial breach of ethics.

I have no way of proving that more fraudulent votes have been cast with ACORN's help, but after many years of observing people I'd bet that if there has been more than one fraudulent ACORN tied vote, there have been thousands enabled by ACORN over the years.

Every vote does count. Even one fraudulent vote cancels out someone else's legitimate vote.

Amen Rolando. Preach, Brother preach. Never apologize (even in jest) for speaking the Truth. It's so refreshing!

Poor Ollie, he's becoming quite unhinged. Maybe it's the small dose of facts he's just been injected with. Like a vaccine, it'll either take time to work or it'll kill him.

(Dare anyone tell these guys to check on the hundreds of thousands OTHER votes around the country that are now being checked because they were ACORN-related. Like Al Franken's)? Sigh...

IB: You really need to read more of our posts to really gain understanding of where we come from...or kwichya belly-aching and painting us with the same, tired, ole' cynical, stereotypical Paintbrush.

It's not vanity, it's for humanity.

It is okay, even if you are on the left, to admit that there are some very shady things in regard to ACORN. You don't have to condone bad behavior just because ACORN is on your team. Admitting fault of someone within your ranks doesn't suggest that your whole team is bad. Not admitting fault does, however, bring question to your judgment and objectivity.

The cartoon reminds me of Monty Python's "merely a flesh wound" scene.

The arguments have convinced me. All instances of voter fraud should be cause for disbanding of any institution, committee, commission and organizations with at least a few voter fraud instances. Including the independent, republican and democratic parties.

As it has been pointed out.. there is voter fraud in those lots. Phone jamming, bullying at the polls and who can forget the post cards telling the other party to vote the day after.

Not to mention grobersure

Speaking of voter fraud... Ann Coulter http://www.bradblog.com/?page_id=4019 Of course "IOKIYAR" (it's ok if you're a republican)

Lightnup,

Did you mean rampant. I'm sure it was a typo.

Clay,

I've tried 3 times to post to this blog and been deleted while trying to correct or post.

Oh, well! I don't have enough information on the subject and I have some questions, but they will have to wait, I guess.

eeeeaaaaccckkk,

Hey you're right, let's see to that AC's federal funding gets pulled as well. Oh, wait...

If Coulter commited this fraud (and it appears she did) then she SHOULD be subject to consequences, just like anyone else who breaks the law; left or right. And I would expect the same for ACORN... whose fraud is multiplied many many times over. I think we have only seen the tip of the iceberg.

eeeeeeeeeeaaaccccckkkk,

When you say "bullying at the polls" do you mean like this,

Since you are fond of misspelling user names..

snottyms,

I didn't realize I had to only reply to one comment at a time or I would have made a separate comment for AC's voter fraud.

Thank you for ever so much for alerting me to this rule... I'll try to do better in the future.

"You really need to read more of our posts to really gain understanding of where we come from...or kwichya belly-aching and painting us with the same, tired, ole' cynical, stereotypical Paintbrush."

I surely accept you as are you are, Canary. And I will continue to read what you post.

I will not ask you to accept me and my "edge," only recognize me as the Emersonian nonconformist and old contrarian of the cartoon list--someone who on his better days tries to discern and do what he "ought"--"to go upright and vital, and speak the rude truth in all ways."

I will pledge no party--I will fix no stickers on my bumper--and I will friend truth where I find it.

As for ACORN and the exposed corruption, see below where Emerson asks: "If malice and vanity wear the coat of philanthropy, shall that pass?"

That is a good question for those who seek to hide away falsehood beneath platitudes, "bountiful causes," and good intention.

Courage and conscience, courage and conscience.

"Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist. He who would gather immortal palms must not be hindered by the name of goodness, but must explore if it be goodness. Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."

"A man is to carry himself in the presence of all opposition, as if every thing were titular and ephemeral but he. I am ashamed to think how easily we capitulate to badges and names, to large societies and dead institutions. Every decent and well-spoken individual affects and sways me more than is right. I ought to go upright and vital, and speak the rude truth in all ways. If malice and vanity wear the coat of philanthropy, shall that pass? If an angry bigot assumes this bountiful cause of Abolition, and comes to me with his last news from Barbadoes, why should I not say to him, 'Go love thy infant; love thy wood-chopper: be good-natured and modest: have that grace; and never varnish your hard, uncharitable ambition with this incredible tenderness for black folk a thousand miles off. Thy love afar is spite at home.' Rough and graceless would be such greeting, but truth is handsomer than the affectation of love. Your goodness must have some edge to it, — else it is none."

"The populace think that your rejection of popular standards is a rejection of all standard, and mere antinomianism; and the bold sensualist will use the name of philosophy to gild his crimes. But the law of consciousness abides[. . . .] I have my own stern claims and perfect circle. It denies the name of duty to many offices that are called duties. But if I can discharge its debts, it enables me to dispense with the popular code. If any one imagines that this law is lax, let him keep its commandment one day."

Yay.. I be diggin me some Emerson!

Scottym,

I just found your reference to rottenacorn.com.

Sounds like the Mafia took over ACORN as well as Medicare.

I'm going to the registration office and check out what was done to mine when I registered down here years ago.

I remember not putting any affiliation on my papers.

Thank you!

"Everyone here should read their Emerson. America would be the better for recalling its secular scripture".

Only much of that "scripture" was lifted from the true One. Never mind the "fast merchants". This one came from the Source :) That first quote (aces25) from Emerson came directly from OT Scripture. Hint: Proverbs. (Do you think he surreptiously read the Good Book under the bedcovers late at night)? Great Poets? Never!

Ah, Emerson, you do our hearts good to recite the great Poets, IB. He said a lot in your quotation above that we can take away and ruminate upon.

Even though Emerson was aware of his own conscience, he could credit no one but himself for 'it's' development. According to Darwinists, we crawled out of the Primordial slime and eventually walked upright. What then, we miraculously developed compassion and a soul(conscience)?

According to evolutionary scientists (not counting the many who do believe in our Deity), we should be well evolved by now. I beg to differ. Morally, ethically and compassionately, we have definitely regressed worldwide. (Hitler was an avid Darwinist and so was Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, the abortion mill). What next? Do we then begin to physically 'de-volve' into hominids and then...back to the slimy swamp...?

Do most people even understand what true compassion and love really are? And where in the world and by whom is this shown more often?

There is a lot of "gotcha" commentary on this cartoon... almost more than usual.

In my opinion, ACORN (along with SEIU) needs to be completely disbanded. Of course, I also believe the vast majority of Congress needs to be voted out. Treat the problem at the root, not after it is all grown up to the point it becomes a catastrophe.

I enjoy some of Emerson's writings too, although he was a bit of an odd duck with respect to religious matters (held similar "new age" spiritual views). Regardless, it does not change some of the great personal philosophies that can be found in his writings.

canaryinthecoalmine,

It is interesting to note that Emerson did pull views from the Bible to shape his own, yet later in his life he did not believe in the Christian God but a "higher power" that is popular with new age spirituality.

Definitely appreciate the summary! Funny how so many great ideas come from that Good Book...

Canary:

I wasn't apologizing so much for speaking truth as against the implication that ALL liberals have neither morals nor ethics. Which is not true, of course. There are probably many on the far-left who have them...difference is, they choose to remain silent and thereby support evil.

To paraphrase, "Evil wins when good [wo]men remain silent in the face of evil."

Evil is losing re: ACORN, thanks to those vocal folks with morals and ethics.

aces25 ...and funny so many bad ideas come from the "good" book.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

In the NT alone... at least 142 instances of cruelty and violence.

So much for goodness with christy and the baby daddy.

Glad to be of service, aces25. I appreciate your honest, clear and concise observations. Amen, amen, amen and amen (to the above that you wrote) and you are welcome.

Thanks for pointing that out Rolando. Amen and amen to your last two points also. So, so true, especially when we see, hear and read the visceral reactions to the exposing of evil deeds.

eeeeeek

I've seen that website before. Many of the conclusions drawn are taken out of the context of theology. It would be like blindly accepting life was formed from primordial ooze without taking into context the subjects of cellular biology, organic chemistry, physics, and others. Logic is not served.

I could argue all day with respect Christianity, but it's blatantly off topic for this forum so I will restrain.

aces25,

I know it's off topic.. and it should be. But don't expect me avoid pointing out the counters to any thrown-in bs that has been posted.

Sure the book has some good stuff in it. Don't act like it's the only thing it represents is goodness. Slavery, subjugation of women, killing of women and children, stoning for picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week.

If I wanted to put up with stone age ideals, I'd go to church.

"snottyms"

LOL!!

Civil society has developed over 10's of thousands of years, at the least. The world is a brutal place, and humans are capable of multiplying that brutality. Modern American culture is possibly the least brutal and least unfair culture which has ever existed, simply because we base our laws upon the assumption that we all have an innate right to be free from brutality at the hands of other humans.

Is our society perfect? Of course not, and none will ever be. The biggest problem we have right now, is that so many are prepared to engage in immoral/unlawful behavior to serve a quest for political power. Without a moral base of some sort, our culture will murder itself. Secularism and it's running mate Statism are not actually very progressive ideas. They are regressive. They represent a return to our brutal roots. Witness Europe 70 years ago.

"Ah, Emerson, you do our hearts good to recite the great Poets, IB. He said a lot in your quotation above that we can take away and ruminate upon."

If I can do that much or little in warming hearts or sparking ideas, Canary, then I have done what I can do.

Having a "secular scripture" does not mean that one cannot or does not have a "sacred scripture."

I use the term "scripture" to denote those books of wisdom that repay continual reading and rumination--you know the sort, if you have ever found one. Shakespeare is the example prime of a "secular scripture."

I apologize for the digression into 19th century American thinkers.

@rolando: Thank you for speaking out against child prostitution with such fervor - when it can be used against ACORN. Over the past two months you have not spoken up against child prostitution on this forum. Hopefully you are speaking out in other venues, or actually doing something to help educate people about or prevent child prostitution.

I am against child prostitution. I just began learning about human trafficking, or modern slavery. It is much more pervasive than ACORN. You can find some actual information about it here: http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/prostitution.html

Please, speak out against child prostitution. Speak out about ACORN. Speak out about one's involvement with the other. But please, spare us the illogical conclusion that we somehow support child prostitution for not speaking out against it by condemning ACORN and all things "liberal." I think your use of the topic in this context is despicable.

Soo, Yup!

Soo,

I've sent the link to some people more intimately involved in fighting the problem. I do my bit in a minor way as I can.

Thank you.

@rolando, et al.: You've got me worked up. Hopefully you can see past the "liberals" and see the value of this project. Speak up about child prostitution. You have no idea...

http://www.callandresponse.com/trailer.html

There are other videos at the bottom.

Those involved in this unspeakable business deserve no mercy. My niece is on the FBI human trafficking task force. I've been around a long time and to a lot of the world, including 3 fun filled tours in Vietnam, and thought I'd seen about the worst human nature has to offer. After hearing some of her stories, I realized, as they say, I ain't seen nothin.

I'm going to defer to a video that clarifies who and what is really behind the ACORN bashing.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-show-truth-about-lies-about

I challenge the most hardened of Republicans to watch the entire six minutes, if for no other reason, than to discover a blatant lie that some of you have offered in this very forum.

President Obama was NOT associated with ACORN.

Fact: Barack was never an ACORN community organizer.

Fact: ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee.

Fact: ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992.

In his capacity as an attorney, Barack represented ACORN in a successful lawsuit alongside the U.S. Department of Justice against the state of Illinois to force state compliance with a federal voting access law. This was known as the "Motor-Voter Law."

ACORN has problems for sure, but I don't think that the entire organization needs to be sidelined. In fact, I donated $100 the organization this evening.

They have been under attack for many years and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why. The right does not want any assistance whatsoever given to the poorest among us, nor to the African-American community, empowering them to have a say in how this nation is governed through their right to cast votes in elections.

I'm going to take the opportunity to mimic my detractors for a moment. ACORN has been guilty of hiring people who committed some rather dishonest acts to make a paycheck. No question. The fact is though, whenever those issues have been brought to light, corrective action has been taken every time. ACORN is committed to helping people vote.

Republicans have their own methods of influencing who gets to vote on election days;

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/sep/20/to-purge-or-not-to-purge-address-verification/

Child abuse IS the context of this thread, eeek, and is certainly on-topic any time, any place.

Child prostitution/abuse/pornography are ALWAYS on-topic -- just as Christ is ALWAYS on-topic in this country whether you and others here like it or not.

=========================

I will mention in passing that I could well have written some of the info on the DoJ website you cited although I was DoD. Written information has a way of moving around the halls of gov't; a bit here, a piece there.

And I am well versed in all aspects of child/spousal abuse etc., having photographed and videotaped way too many such incidents. I did not actively investigate such crimes; prefering to recuse myself due to strong emotional reactions.

So do not presume to lecture those of us who have been there, seen it, and puked. Literally.

==========================

ACORN is deeply involved in criminal activities in the name of "community organizing" or whatever it is they do [illegally]. It only needs proving in a court of law...

The real question -- other than the liberal left's collusion in its atrocities -- is why it took two young people, inexperienced in but aware of the ways of the world, to expose this...this...words fail me. Insert whatever word you would use to describe what ACORN REPEATEDLY, CONSISTENTLY, and SYSTEMICALLY did to aid CHILD PROSTITUTION for God's sake. We are talking 13-year olds here...perhaps in ACORN's world, thirteen is the age to butcher but it certainly isn't in the conservative world.

Where was -- and is -- our vaunted "newsmedia"? [HA!]

I watched some of it, somethingorother...just some of it. I am still too emotionally involved and will probably always be so.

Some people just need killin'.

@rolando: As I stated, I hoped you were involved more deeply than your post indicated.

I will need to do some more research before I can completely agree with your assessment of ACORN's systemic corruption. I appreciate your passion, and apologize if I touched a nerve. It is a topic close to my heart for personal reasons. Perhaps you could point me in the direction of some evidence, preferably non-partisan. It's difficult these days to find evidence without an agenda.

alprova wrote "ACORN has problems for sure, but I don't think that the entire organization needs to be sidelined. In fact, I donated $100 the organization this evening."

So it's true what they say, "A fool and his money....."

The "children" in question did not exist. The only people claiming to be importing children for indecent purposes, were the two bozos who set up the scenario and recorded it.

Talk about semantics....

If so much as one person associated with ACORN has been guilty of any impropriety involving a child, please name one person who was arrested for the crime.

Some people just have too much time on their hands, and they apparently think through them too.

The worst I recall, Sailorman, involved a six-month old who's "Daddy" decided he no longer wanted to hear her cries...so he beat her, and beat her, and beat her until there was more bruise than not. He beat her until Death finally arrived to take her in his arms, cuddle her, and take her away. At least that's how I hope it ended. The first part certainly happened. God. I still weep for her.

Time to change threads.

Oh yeah, I want to get my "facts" from Rachel Maddow and fightthesmears.com. Not.

The important thing...the incriminating thing...is the ACORN people believed the story and acted on it in all seriousness. That is called conspiracy. It is a crime.

Knowingly contributing money to a known or suspected criminal organization is a crime.

Not all crimes are prosecuted; not all criminals are arrested; usually through lack of evidence or no chain of custody for existing evidence. The film is not admissible into evidence if memory serves because it was not made under proper legal guidance/supervision/custody.

None of which changes the recorded visual evidence of wrongdoing -- even criminal acts -- by ACORN involving conspiracy to aid and abet child prostitution, trafficing in children for sexual purposes, child abduction, child abuse, bank fraud, etc, etc. So spin away...the fact remains...GOTTCHA!

I am 9 years retired, somethingorother. Many things change, people leave, contacts are lost. Here in the wilds of East Tenn -- where sunlight is sometimes piped in -- even phones and worse, the Web, fail.

At seventy, I find myself tired...the baton has been passed it is sad to say. Fight the good fight.

alprova wrote: The "children" in question did not exist.

Like DUH. The point though is that the ACORN people at each of those locations did not know that.

And those two "bozos" as you call them were brave enough to do something your mainstream media should have done but are too protective of anything on the left to consider it. They did what "60 Minutes" used to do before becoming "60 minutes with Barack Obama." The AP is too busy following the stories that Bristol Palin's baby-daddy is appearing in Playgirl and Governor Sanford's driver got stopped for speeding to worry about real news. Journalism is indeed dead.

alprova,

MSNBC is a partisan comedy network. Some people actually think Maddow/Olbermann/Tingleboy are credible. Those who are not braindamaged realize they are nothing but bitter hacks.

"President Obama was NOT associated with ACORN."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/election/s_584284.html

That is just the tip of the iceberg.

"Fact: ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee."

I guess the name Madeline Talbott doesn't ring a bell, eh? You can do the research, it is all over the web.

"Fact: ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992."

Someone should tell the NYTimes...

"I get about 30 new voters or changes of address in six hours," said Ms. Green, who was hired by Project Vote, the nonpartisan arm of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or Acorn." From here: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/26/politics/campaign/26vote.html

Why all the lies surrounding ACORN? Why is POTUS throwing them under the bus with so many other past associates?

Why would anyone clear thinking individual fall for the sack of BS being peddled on ACORNs behalf?

Lightenup wrote: "Oh yeah, I want to get my "facts" from Rachel Maddow and fightthesmears.com. Not."

It doesn't matter where facts come from. Either they are indeed facts or they are not. There's no way around it.

Another simple fact is that if you have reason to think that someone is not trustworthy in your mind to offer truth or factual information, then disproving them should come very easily.

Please. I challenge you to disprove one FACT that I have offered in this forum...EVER. I don't write a thing that I offer as fact, without checking into it myself. I stand ready at all times to justify and prove any FACT that I offer.

Rachel Maddow is a lefty, no question. I think she's kinda cute too. She offered some simple points of argument regarding ACORN that either ARE facts, or they ARE NOT.

Don't attack the messenger. Step up like a man and attack the facts...that is, if you can. You're very good at attempting to trounce opinions, but to date, I have yet to see one response offered by you that dictates that I should apologize for offering a fact, that wasn't.

Oh, and by the way. My name is not Bill O'Reilly (gag me with a bulldozer). We are not in a "no-spin zone," not that he has ever been in one himself. If I want to interject personal opinion when presenting factual information, I'll do it to my heart's content.

Goodness knows you do.

"A fool and his money....."

Well, I've got it all figured out. Seeing as it doesn't look that Republicans are going to get out of the way to allow those who would like to fix our broken health care system a shot at it, I'm going to join the illegals and start going to the emergency room for my health care and let the REAL taxpayers of this nation pay for my medical care. This will give me far more to squander "foolishly."

How do you sleep at night?

I think I'll send another $100 tomorrow. I picked up five new clients this week.

Life is good. Just don't tell the IRS that I said that.

alprova wrote - "Seeing as it doesn't look that Republicans are going to get out of the way to allow those who would like to fix our broken health care system a shot at it..."

Please, Mr. Facts, enlighten us all as to how Republicans can stand in the way of any legislation that the Democratically controlled Congress and White House wish to pass. Harry Reid already said he'll use reconciliation to get it done. The FACT is that Dems could have passed healthcare months ago, but they are scared witless of the citizen's backlash.

By the way, the CBO estimates that the latest plan for the government to take over healthcare will leave 25 million Americans uninsured. That erases all doubt that this whole Obama/Pelosi/Reid healthcare push is ALL about government control and entitlement programs, and NOT about making sure "everyone" is covered by health insurance. So much for Obama giving two hoots about Sammy Citizen's medical concerns.

So, we should be sucked dry of $850 Billion to $1 Trillion to cover just 5 million additional people than are covered now. WTF?

At some point, it has to dawn on even the kool-aid drinking liberals that this out-of-control stupidity has to stop. And now they are talking about a VAT Tax? Double WTF?

Seems that SCOTTYM has done a fine job of refuting your ACORN "facts." I guess you and OllieH must use the same research assistant.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2093005/posts

The intent in establishing ACORN was noble,the implimentation,not so noble.

That often happens when a trough is poorly regulated.Remember Enron? AIG? Leamon? Bear Stearns? No fire walls? Unlimited interest rates? Extreme leverage?...

We are governed,but are we well governed?

No one has refuted a doggone thing.

CSI is a FOR-PROFIT company in the business of promoting politicians running for office. They, like many other companies out there, work for or with non-profit organizations like ACORN. CSI is a unique and totally separate entity from any of the non-profits. This is an OLD story, and one that only survives in the right-wing blogosphere.

Back when this PLANTED story broke, instituted by the RNC in it's many attempts to squash Barack Obama, the FEC refused to step-and-fetch to the demands that it launch an investigation, despite being under the thumb of a Republican White House. The corrections and clarifications were made to list the expenditures correctly, just as many other politicians have have done when errors are made.

Madeline Talbott is most certainly a high level ACORN employee. So what? She's also a very adamant and committed community organizer, just as Obama was way back when. The woman has gone to jail to draw attention to issues that other would love to shove under the table. Are people that surprised that the two would bump elbows from time to time? The fact that they are both Chicago residents does not make her Obama's right hand woman. That glue attempt has not stuck any better than it did when it was tried with Jeremiah Wright, or when people tried to attach Bill Ayers to Mr. Obama's hip either.

Project Vote? it's been at least 15 years since he was actively involved with the organization. Making Obama responsible for any perceived or alleged improprieties that may be part of the organization in 2009, is just as laughable as the assertions that Halliburton is still being helmed by Dick Cheney.

Don't you guys have anything a little more recent in nature? Recycled materials may smell a little better, but there is not mistaking that they are derivatives of garbage.

Lightnup, your link is to an article filled with nothing more than outrageous tripe, not worthy of taking the time to debunk it.

If you swallow the popular right-wing notion that the poor in this nation seeking to own a home, caused the mortgage meltdown in this nation, then you need to come back down to earth, because your brain is clearly floating up in the clouds at the moment.

At the height of the mortgage crisis, ARM's were around 12% of all mortgages written within the last decade. 93% of them were being paid on time each and every month when the crap hit the fan.

A 7% default rate of 12% of the mortgage market did not cause banks to fail. Default rates have been consistently higher on credit cards than has ever been the case with mortgages.

Would you like me to make and mail you some tin foil hats? I hear they are poised for a rebirth.

After reading through the rest of the comments this morning, I'm reminded of the "Jump to Conclusions" mat from the movie Office Space.

eeeeeek

Your views on the Bible are unfortunate. I can only hope and pray you will someday see the message from the book that I have seen.

Yes, the degree of the relationship with respect to some of the associations to Obama are marginal. Yet, some are not (such as Wright). I believe many of these associations came to life a bit too late, as it would have been a shooting gallery for Hillary during the Presidential nominations. In retrospect, she may have been a better choice than Obama or "fight with me, my friends" McCain, especially if she could balance the budget similar to her husband.

Old news or not, I don't anyone should have an issue in holding the office of the President to a higher standard, especially when he himself says to judge him by those who surround him. It is the highest office in the land, and since we are represented by him, we should expect more.

What astounds me the most is that normally intelligent people, like alprova, willfully ignore the mounds of evidence of both ACORN corruption and POTUS's ties to that organization.

Alprova goes on to deny the relationships between O and his pastor of 20 years, Racist Wright, in addition to denying the relationship between O and and the despicable domestic terrorist Ayers who helped write "O's" book "Dreams From My (Socialist Nation Wrecking) Father".

I wonder if perhaps alprova has had so much kool-aide that his brain has turned to mush.

alprova twisted: "Are people that surprised that the two would bump elbows from time to time?"

Bump elbows from time to time? alprova, you are a master of understatement when it comes to defending the undefendable:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2093005/posts

"....It would be tough to find an "on the ground" community organizer more closely tied to the subprime-mortgage fiasco than Madeline Talbott. And no one has been more supportive of Madeline Talbott than Barack Obama.

When Obama was just a budding community organizer in Chicago, Talbott was so impressed that she asked him to train her personal staff.

He returned to Chicago in the early '90s, just as Talbott was starting her pressure campaign on local banks. Chicago ACORN sought out Obama's legal services for a "motor voter" case and partnered with him on his 1992 "Project VOTE" registration drive.

In those years, he also conducted leadership-training seminars for ACORN's up-and-coming organizers. That is, Obama was training the army of ACORN organizers who participated in Madeline Talbott's drive against Chicago's banks.

More than that, Obama was funding them. As he rose to a leadership role at Chicago's Woods Fund, he became the most powerful voice on the foundation's board for supporting ACORN and other community organizers. In 1995, the Woods Fund substantially expanded its funding of community organizers - and Obama chaired the committee that urged and managed the shift.

That committee's report on strategies for funding groups like ACORN features all the key names in Obama's organizer network. The report quotes Talbott more than any other figure; Sandra Maxwell, Talbott's ACORN ally in the bank battle, was also among the organizers consulted."

How cute. When your "fact" that ACORN was not connected to Project Vote was successfully debunked, you come up with, "that was 15 years ago..."

What does that have to do with the fact that your fact was not factual? Nothing.

I've sat back through most of this, as I needed to research about everything going on with ACORN before I could say anything. After everything I've read, I will agree with the majority of the people on this post who are displaying intelligence. ACORN should be shut down.

Alprova, this is the most ignorant comment I have ever seen you make: "The "children" in question did not exist. The only people claiming to be importing children for indecent purposes, were the two bozos who set up the scenario and recorded it." And you've made some pretty ignorant ones in the past. Of course these theoretical children did not exist. That's the purpose of a sting operation. You present yourself as a convincing theif, murderer, drug dealer, or in this case pimp and you see if the target goes along with it. It doesn't matter that these children didn't exist. What matters is that ACORN was willing to help the pimp. Lightnup has made factual statements to debunk the "facts" you have offered without solid evidence. Which I thank you for Lightnup.
And by the way, I need some money. If I start lying, filing false voter registrations and making offers to set up whorehouses for minors, will you send me some money too?

It's called 'Indoctrination' SCOTTYM and it's why we can argue and argue the fact that millions of people have seen and heard on video/audio/live speeches, Obama praising ACORN, talking about his time and work there; ACORN employees saying the same thing and the poor Left will just tell us our "videos have been doctored". Don't throw your pearls...

I want to thank Rolando so much for his service to this country and to the community, especially his work for those poor children. Your blessings and joy will come, just wait. You are a true hero and a true Warrior in every sense of the word!

SOO, thank you for your apologies. I knew you were young and I have nothing against that at all. Some of us on the post were once your age and that is why we too can be passionate about what we have seen and experienced. We're glad that some of you are searching out the truth, being zealous for good and speaking out, esp. re: atrocities done to children, men and women. That's why we attempt to warn you, history is a great teacher and so is experience. You will get it. Question everything. Be true and honest.

Thirty-some years ago, a bunch of us younguns were discussing home politics, world politics, the Bible and prophecy. We could see things that had already come true, were in the process (in our country, Europe and the US) of coming true, and we postulated about the future. Well, the future is now.

One of my passions and personal nightmares (I was researching and writing a paper on Third World/Western Journalism), was the discovery of the human slavery (mostly Caucasian today)and child sex slavery network worldwide. The silence of many countries and their leaders was deafening. I was appalled that this was happening even in North America, so I started at that time to speak out. Most people did not believe and did not want to hear. I still speak out about the issue. It's hard for many people to take.

I have met some amazing folks out West and here in Chattanooga who are actively working with US and European/Asian governments to save the kids and prosecute the perpetrators (underground because of the extreme danger). These folks are Christians. I only say this because many of you guys need to hear that there are those who quote the Word and claim the Messiah as their own, yet are false. Then there are those who really are His and are being a "light" in this world of evil. To discern, whether the issue is ACORN or false teachers? Well, go to the Source with honesty. Not to us or anyone else. You can Dis us, but you Dis Him at your own peril.

Alot of this evil and others we have been discussing here was and is perpetrated and/or condoned by Fascist/Communist/Marxist governments. There comes a time in a nation's history (and our own) when getting rid of true Morality, true Ethics (the Lord God) blurs the lines between good and evil. All is tolerated, everything "relevant". Follow that path at your own peril.

8 months ago I was in the Reagan Library viewing the Magna Carta and the Constitutional documents. To see these magnificent words on that parchment and realize OUR laws and freedoms/rights were inspired and taken from this work of art was humbling. What we have had is humbling. Where we came from is humbling. The Source of the Magna Carta? You know, it's Him.

The bible is not the cornerstone of the British democratic system, the foundation of our laws was the Magna Carta or, more specifically the block thereof which confirmed and codified the people's rights under the Common Law.

The Magna Carta, in the 1297 Confirmatio Cartarum, was made the foundation of British law, superseding all other documents and makes no reference to the bible. It has a series of specific clauses saying what the king can and cannot do, and what are the rights of the Barons and later the freemen. Those clauses don't reference any earlier document as justifying their provisions. Since the Magna Carta was written as a contract, it didn't need such references. It is a legally binding agreement, and stands on its own.

It's a complex political treaty, born of a complex political conflict. It's probably largely chance it wound up as the first actual written codification of the evolving body of traditional rights of the king's subjects, and the limitations to his power over them.

Those traditional rights are also well known to predate the charter, and nowhere in law explicitly linked to any justifying document. They seem to have evolved out of society, as does much law and custom. The bible has very little to say about the right to petition for a writ of habeas corpus, nor the right to public trial.

There is no historical basis the bible is the direct foundation to our system of government. The Magna Carta was only a starting point.

The law has evolved enormously since, and scenes rather similar to the king's being forced to accept those provisions have driven that evolution.

Democracy isn't about grand, eternal documents, written by gods or by men. It's often more about the point of that sword. And about street protests, riots, strikes, heated arguments in public meetings, referenda and elections. Humanity is not granted its rights by gods. Human beings, often in desperate straits, demand those rights. And what those rights are evolves with our sense of where justice lies. The determination of centuries of citizens who demanded better, is what makes our nation a haven to those fleeing tyranny.

aces25

Your views on the bible are unfortunate. It is a book full of false hope.

While false hope does help many do better for themselves, it is because the real hope is already embedded in themselves.

Now you can pray for me as much as you want... you can even pray for 3 more prayers. Perhaps take a month off and continuously pray for me. Waste as much time as possible. Anything to keep you out of society can't be all bad.

Your prayers will be as effective on me, as praying for any devout amputee regrowing their limb. Through prayer only, without the aid of medical science or mutation of DNA.

This is not a democracy, it is a Republic. Athenian democratists would be appalled at this sham we have today in the West.

I have read and seen the Magna Carta and the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. Much as you have a hissing, intense dislike of Christianity and the Bible, you nor any other revisionist can change the original documents. Those are what I mentioned, not the 'interpreted' versions of law we witness today.

I am far more familiar with Ancient Hebrew law and Judeo/Christian Ethics than you seem to be. The precepts are there in our founders writings and documents for all to see. All, that is, who have the honest vision to see and the desire of true aspirations for this country. Those with an insidious agenda and a desire to undermine, well that's another story.

You are lost and you hate Him, yet He loves you. He continues to pursue you even in that state. I don't know how old you are or in what state of health you are, but I have seen many folks on their deathbeds. It is an eye-opener.

You too, Bennett :) amazing what a little acorn leads to.

Don't worry.. it's not just christianity. I dislike all religions that celebrate murder and death like it's the most glorious thing ever handed down to them.

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek wrote: "Humanity is not granted its rights by gods. Human beings, often in desperate straits, demand those rights."

Just wondering, demand those rights from whom? From where do those who supposedly have the power to grant rights to humanity get them?

alprova claimed: "Seeing as it doesn't look that Republicans are going to get out of the way to allow those who would like to fix our broken health care system a shot at it..."

I'm still waiting with baited breath for alprova's explanation of how the Republicans are standing in the way of a Democrat majority in the House and Senate, along with a Democrat in the White House, from passing whatever legistlation they want to pass. Or perhaps that was just some more liberal misdirection to divert us from the fact that Democrats can't even get their own ship together on healthcare.

canaryinthecoalmine

I cannot hate something that doesn't exist. Your fairy tale just has no appeal. And fairy tale characters don't pursue.

State of my health.. I will probably die in 15 to 20 years. When I learned of my health problems, I didn't start wishing there was a god, goddess or anything in between. Or calling out pleas to such nonsense. I did throw up from the nausea that hit.

No biggie. As long as I outlive my cats, I'll be happy. I've had a good life.. The VA takes good care of me.

Your "I have seen many folks..." bs is just repeat drivel.. I have doubts on your sincerity in the way you are presenting that statement.

Everyone I've seen on deathbeds were just happy I came to say bye. Those with strong religious background said their stuff.. those who weren't religious didn't.

I am not lost, I am on vacation though, but still living in reality.

Your god is the most awful character ever written.. and it's son... virgin birth... wise at a young age... died and resurrected... is hardly original.

"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts

eeeeeek,

I respect your stand and outlook, even though I might not agree. I am not the one to change your outlook, and Canary's either. This is what "Freedom of, (and from) Religion" is all about.

I will not be prosylitized, nor will I do that to anyone.

If a "religion" or its congregation is breaking a law, then that should fall under the judicial system.

I have found that a reliable organization in a church is an excellent way for me to be of some use to others in a small way, if I still can.

I do believe in God, Canary!

Canary, you are casting pearls when you might be better off shaking the dust off. Let it go.

Thanks for the thanks but I am certainly not alone out here. The nasty things seem to haunt us more the older we get...missed opportunity to right wrongs, etc come up. I have had my moments, though.

alprova wrote.... Seeing as it doesn't look that Republicans are going to get out of the way to allow those who would like to fix our broken health care system a shot at it...........Excuse me. The Democrats do not need one Republican vote to do anything. You guys need to start blaming each other for your problems and leave the Republicans out of it. Put the blame where belongs.

Lightenup wrote: "How cute. When your "fact" that ACORN was not connected to Project Vote was successfully debunked, you come up with, "that was 15 years ago..."

What does that have to do with the fact that your fact was not factual? Nothing."

Are you a moron, or do you just pretend to be one?

No one has debunked or proven anything, and until the day comes that someone...ANYONE associated with ACORN is charged and convicted of a crime, then all you have to offer is another in a long line of unsubstantiated rumors and/or innuendo.

Bloggers are not attorneys, and they certainly are not qualified to be judges. Opinions are not facts.

You can spray a 55 gallon drum of glue out there with every laughable charge you attempt to lay at Obama's feet and it's not going to stick to the man.

Haven't you people learned that yet?

I'm going to digest it into one simple sentence, and this covers every possible charge you could dare offer today, tomorrow, next week, or next year.

The people voted for Obama. He won. He's the President. Anything you people can drum up from is pointless and useless. The recycled garbage you offer has been offered already and it didn't work. Do you people think that if you keep repeating it, that the world is going to wake up one day and call for his head?

I'm not going to engage with any of you people any longer in your desire to dredge up anything at all that the majority of the people in this country have already considered and discarded.

We Obama supporters voted for the man in spite of every underhanded tactic taken to try and derail his campaign.

If you people want to whine and cry for the next 7 1/4 years over spilled milk, help yourself. I'm ignoring these stupid taunts effective immediately.

Lightnup and all you other Obama bashers, I would have loved to have seen your faces when you found out that our President was awarded the 2009 Nobel Prize for Peace early this morning.

I hear you Rolando, amen. I will never be ashamed to speak my peace. Most of my family and friends have passed on and I too have seen and experienced horrific things. I worship the Living God, not worthless pieces of stone or wood and inanimate objects. I have seen miracles, therefore I don't fear the ankle-biters. They are empty vessels.

Shalom

Lightnup pecked: alprova wrote: The "children" in question did not exist.

Like DUH. The point though is that the ACORN people at each of those locations did not know that.

Well...at least you got that part right. You also fail to mention that the minute that those two characters left, the woman called the cops on them.

I watched those tapes, and I found the entire exchange to be rather incredible. I'd love to hear the women's side to make sense out of the whole thing. There's absolutely more to this story than what appeared on those tapes.

"And those two "bozos" as you call them were brave enough to do something your mainstream media should have done but are too protective of anything on the left to consider it."

Pleeeeze...sell that crap somewhere else. The entire thing was a setup from start to finish. There's more to it, and it will eventually come out.

"They did what "60 Minutes" used to do before becoming "60 minutes with Barack Obama." The AP is too busy following the stories that Bristol Palin's baby-daddy is appearing in Playgirl and Governor Sanford's driver got stopped for speeding to worry about real news. Journalism is indeed dead."

I'm not a fan of hit pieces with edited videos, and especially when they are done by amateurs. But for kicks, I started a little research this evening to see what I could come up with.

James O'Keefe III and Hannah Giles are not simply concerned citizens, nor are they objective in their distaste for ACORN. They are both connected very well to the conservative establishment.

The video was "shopped" to about a dozen people before it landed in the hands of Andrew Breitbart. Fox News was solicited, as well as Glenn Beck. Fox News aired them, claiming that they had no hand in their creation and that they did not pay anyone for them.

ACORN has provided proof of a police report that proves that the police were called when the duo attempted the rouse at the Philadelphia ACORN office. They split when told that the cops were on the way.

Glenn Beck interviewed Hannah Giles, who told him that she 'concocted the undercover video plan after taking a wrong turn during a jog in May, soon after arriving in Washington.'

Her running route that day led her past the Washington office of ACORN, a group which, according to one mentor, she had read about but had not researched extensively.

"I was like, you know, I'd never seen them before. I don't like them," Giles told Beck. "And I came up with the idea."

O'Keefe has a history of pulling outrageous stunts. He has phoned staff at Planned Parenthood clinics, who entertained and, in some cases, accepted his proposition of giving money as long as it was used for black women to get abortions.

Is he doing what journalists "refuse" to do? Time will tell. I think that there is more than a few people under investigation at the moment, and some of them don't even know that they are being targeted.

alprova said "I would have loved to have seen your faces when you found out that our President was awarded the 2009 Nobel Prize for Peace...."

How sad - you're actually serious. While it's not O's fault they gave it to him, he would have made quite an impression by turning it down - as he should have. You don't get a Nobel for good intentions. There are plenty of candidates who have actually done something. Read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20091009/us...

Having said that, at least he's in appropriate company. You know, winners like Yasser Arafat, Kofi Annan, Mohamed ElBaradei, and last but not least, Carter and our very own Al Gore.

Read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20091009/us_time/08599192939500

oops sorry about the repeat link - but then maybe it wouldn't hurt alprova to read it twice :)

I bet Obama hopes Kanye West doesn't show up for his Nobel acceptance speech.

Scotty wrote: "What astounds me the most is that normally intelligent people, like alprova, willfully ignore the mounds of evidence of both ACORN corruption and POTUS's ties to that organization."

Obama won the election. He is in the White House. Nothing else matters at this point. All that crap was tired last year. It didn't work then and it will not work now.

"Alprova goes on to deny the relationships between O and his pastor of 20 years, Racist Wright, in addition to denying the relationship between O and and the despicable domestic terrorist Ayers who helped write "O's" book "Dreams From My (Socialist Nation Wrecking) Father".

Thank you Sean Hannity the second. Hannity spewed those same lies for a year and a half and the man still won the election by a very wide margin.

I know that the right has this fantasy that if they keep harping enough on these machinations, that the President will be impeached. Hold your breath.

"I wonder if perhaps alprova has had so much kool-aide that his brain has turned to mush."

On the contrary. Every time you right-wingers post, I am elated to know that the chains that once held me as one of the misled and misinformed are no longer there. I see with every word, how utterly idiotic I once was to have supported the Republican Party.

alprova - the post you made at 9:41 points to exactly the reason you and your cohorts make no sense. The fact Obama got elected in spite of his well known and well documented associations with criminals and criminal organizations, terrorists, and various nutcases like Rev Wright doesn't speak well of the intelligence of the voters. You were no more idiotic to support the Repub party than you are to support the Dems. They're both a pack of power hungry liars and scoundrels. Your knee jerk support of all things Obama is every bit as bad as someone who mindlessly swallows Hannity's opinion.

So sad...

I would like to think that we can hold the President of United States to a standard on which others are not typically judged by. And yet, a free pass is given on so many of Obama's associations. Some of them are overblown, absolutely. Others are not and merit further investigation. I only point out Wright more often then not because there is no denying their relationship. Otherwise, Obama would not have had to cut ties with him publicly in fear of the reaction if he chose not to do so. On the flip side, if a Republican were in office that sat in on even one white supremest gathering, it would have been lit up like the Vegas strip.

My point is to hold every major government official to the highest standards because only the best should represent the American public. Appealing campaign slogans, well-spoken speeches and catch phrases shouldn't be the reason. Experience, political policy, personal character, sound decision making, and other qualities are better metrics to make such a judgment. The acceptance of the campaigning high school student council presidents need to end.

So many on this board, from both sides of the line, need to take a step back on occasion and think bigger picture. I often need to remind myself of this. Based on the picture that is being painted by Congress, this administration, as well as the effects of the previous administration, I can say that I do not like the path that our officials are pursuing for this nation.

I have faith that eventually the American people will right the ship. What happens between now and then will be the interesting part.

alprova foolishly wrote: "No one has debunked or proven anything, and until the day comes that someone...ANYONE associated with ACORN is charged and convicted of a crime, then all you have to offer is another in a long line of unsubstantiated rumors and/or innuendo."

1. An ACORN employee in West Reading, Pennsylvania, was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail.

2.In Washington, five Washington state ACORN workers were sentenced to jail time. ACORN agreed to pay King County $25,000 for its investigative costs and acknowledged that the national organization could be subject to criminal prosecution if fraud occurs again.

1. In Reynoldsburg, Ohio, Claudel Gilbert was indicted on two felony counts of illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote in two separate counties.

2. In Colorado in January 2005, two Colorado ACORN workers were sentenced to community service for submitting false voter registrations.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/ACORN_and_voter_registration_fraud

These CONVICTIONS took less than a minute to find. I'm sure if I wanted to, I could find more. Many other ACORN people have been indicted, but I don't really care enough about it to research if there were convictions.

Don't you just hate it alprova when what you blindly claim to be rumor and innuendo turns out to be the truth?

"Whether the scandal is pervasive within ACORN, I don't know. If it is, then the "tree" needs to be cut down. Will we hold other institutions to this standard? Historically, the answer is "No.""

So true, somethingorother. As an advocate for family preservation and child welfare reform I spent a lot of time on Capitol Hill during the 1980's. I'm all-too-familiar with the corruption that permeated the Reagan and Bush administrations. The Republicans are hiding far worse dirt than the Dems and ACORN. The Franklin-Boys Town conspiracy during the Reagan and Bush administrations is one example.

"Washington Times June 29, 1989 story, headlined: "Homosexual Prostitution Inquiry Ensnares VIPs with Reagan, Bush."

The Franklin Scandal is the dirty tip of the iceberg of America's corrupt child welfare and adoption system. Republicans who promote adoption are fueling this insanity.

Pro_Reality,

That's 20 years ago. Nothing seems to have come of it.

Only the Washington Times published it? That's owned by the Moony Family. As I remember, Mr. Moony was caught on income tax evasion and promoted the Moony Cult.

Is there a working link? Other verification?

This is probably too late to continue on this blog as the next cartoon has already been published.

Sailorman wrote: "alprova - the post you made at 9:41 points to exactly the reason you and your cohorts make no sense. The fact Obama got elected in spite of his well known and well documented associations with criminals and criminal organizations, terrorists, and various nutcases like Rev Wright doesn't speak well of the intelligence of the voters."

No offense, but you underestimate the intelligence of people and their ability to sort fact from fiction. I did my own digging into the allegations, right about the time that Jeremiah Wright became a household word. I was an avid fan of Hannity at the time and would never miss his nightly broadcast on Fox News.

Jeremiah Wright's words were repeatedly taken out of context. I sought out and watched the ENTIRE sermon that spawned the hatemongering of Mr. Wright. His infamous sentence of condemnation, when put back into context of the subject he was speaking to, put a whole new take on things. And I agree with him.

Bill Ayers? A very decent man who harmed not one soul, and again, has been repeatedly and completely misquoted. The man RIGHTFULLY protested a wrong committed by our Government -- the forcing of 57,000 of our men to give up their lives in an act of war that to this very day, has never been justified or explained to anyone.

You call the man a criminal. I consider him to be a literal hero in his own right. While others were idle in doing nothing while our young men were shuffled off like cattle to to a killing trough, he took his protests to a higher and more destructive level, carefully assuring that nothing more than public property was destroyed.

Had more people gone against the grain when our Government instituted the draft, who knows how many families would still be spending time with their loved ones who were lost in that idiotic excursion that we as a country had absolutely no stake in.

"You were no more idiotic to support the Repub party than you are to support the Dems. They're both a pack of power hungry liars and scoundrels. Your knee jerk support of all things Obama is every bit as bad as someone who mindlessly swallows Hannity's opinion."

After careful and redundant analysis of the political arena over the past several years, I have come to the conclusion that there is not one Republican that is in Washington and doing a thing to serve my interests.

The Democrats have a unique opportunity to prove their worth to the American people. I'm watching very closely to see if they can return this nation to what it once was before the Republicans made a complete mess of things.

And that, the Republicans have done...but good.

Lightenup: "alprova foolishly wrote: "No one has debunked or proven anything, and until the day comes that someone...ANYONE associated with ACORN is charged and convicted of a crime, then all you have to offer is another in a long line of unsubstantiated rumors and/or innuendo."

Perhaps I did not make myself clear.

Digging up instances of a select few people employed by ACORN who violated ethical standards during voting registration efforts is great, but it is NOT an issue that I protested or have been countering.

Anytime people are paid piecemeal wages, based on production based efforts, anyone in their right mind knows that there are going to be ethical violations and instances of impropriety. Find all you want. The percentages of wrongdoing will forever be negligible to that which has been done properly and ethically. I never ONCE stated that no ACORN employee has ever committed an act of wrongdoing.

The subject that drew me into this debate, was the assertion by more than a few in here, that our President has been guilty of being actively involved or associated with any member of ACORN who has been guilty of illegal activities, and who has been convicted of illegal or criminal offenses.

THAT assertion is rumor and innuendo.

And to head off the next "logical" progression of arguments that will most certainly be tried, who the heck was Obama 15 years ago, when all of this crap is supposed to have taken place?

No one outside of Chicago knew of the man. For sure, no one in Washington D.C. knew of him. So how could all of this alleged and systematic "protection" be instituted to shield him from such allegations, if they were remotely true?

It's mindless. It's worse than illogical. And people who refuse to dig into the facts are playing right into the hands of those who perpetrated this entire effort to demean the man who now leads our nation.

So the bottom line is very simple. People who repeat this recycled garbage without doing their own investigating to discover fundamental facts are either ignorant, at best, or are on board with the smearing of a very fine man for more nefarious reasons of their own -- objecting to the man due to his political ideals or perhaps something as simple as the color of his skin.

People love a good scandal. And this is not directed to to any particular person, but there are some people on this planet...who love embracing scandalous accusations to the point that they just appear to be utterly stupid.

I looked back at my previous comments and I DID find that I was too broad in what I stated.

I wrote: "No one has debunked or proven anything, and until the day comes that someone...ANYONE associated with ACORN is charged and convicted of a crime, then all you have to offer is another in a long line of unsubstantiated rumors and/or innuendo."

It should have read similar to the following;

"No one has debunked or proven anything, and until the day comes that someone...ANYONE associated with ACORN is charged and convicted of a crime, and is clearly proven to have been involved with President Obama, then all you have to offer is another in a long line of unsubstantiated rumors and/or innuendo."

In my defense, I offered in my FIRST post in this thread, the following statement;

"ACORN has been guilty of hiring people who committed some rather dishonest acts to make a paycheck. No question."

I never meant to imply that no person associated with ACORN has never been guilty of or has been convicted of a criminal or unethical act.

I do maintain that President Obama has never been associated with anyone who has been guilty of or who has been convicted of such an act.

alprova - you're hopeless

Have a great weekend

alprova - By your standards, John Gotti would had to have been photographed standing over a dead body, smoking gun in hand, with a "La Cosa Nostra" banner in the background to have been considered associated with the Mafia.

Alprova;

I love the way you consistently have to go back and retract or 'change' your previous comments, how telling.

Now you need to look back further than 15 years and thoroughly vet the Idol of your life, Barack Hussein Obama...mmmm?

Canary sed: "I love the way you consistently have to go back and retract or 'change' your previous comments, how telling."

I've done that how many times?

Constantly?

Sir, with ALL due respect, you haven't had to pull off your shoes yet to have to keep up with the count of the times that I have made retractions or clarifications.

At least give me the credit for owning up to my mistakes when they are made. I can think of several people who refuse to own up to theirs.

Lightnup opined: "alprova - By your standards, John Gotti would had to have been photographed standing over a dead body, smoking gun in hand, with a "La Cosa Nostra" banner in the background to have been considered associated with the Mafia."

John Gotti was arrested, tried, and convicted of his criminal acts.

The only thing I see going on in here is a trial by some in the court of opinion.

Mind you that no facts are being offered. No evidence is being introduced.

Why don't you do something REALLY productive and more in line with the type of justice that you seem to be content with endorsing, like burning a cross in the dark of night and throwing a rope over the top of a tree?

If the best response you have is to claim racism, you have already lost the discussion. How ignorant.

alprova, you want proof that Obama was involved in crimes, which is something NOBODY is claiming.

No one has claimed that Obama stood on a street corner registering voters multiple times. No one has claimed that Obama advised people how to evade taxes and skirt the law while operating their child prostitution ring.

But you CANNOT DENY that Obama has been involved with ACORN through the years, has vocally praised ACORN, has told ACORN that he would invite them into the White House to have policy input and that ACORN has had a long history of criminal and fraudulent activities, including internal embezzlement of millions of dollars.

If you are denying Obama's involvement with ACORN based on the fact that he hasn't been charged with a crime and if you need proof of Obama committing a crime before you will admit to the facts above, well, then I guess you win. How does one possibly argue with someone who can't think logically?

Dear Alprova:

With all due respect Ma'am, I never said many times or constantly, I said "consistently". I will give you credit for admitting some of your mistakes.

You are very intelligent and well-read. It's just dis-combobulated intelligence caused by either acid indigestion or reading too much of the wrong things.

"alprova, you want proof that Obama was involved in crimes, which is something NOBODY is claiming."

You refuse to stick to your own arguments and now you have decided to change my words to waffle some more, and that gets you only one thing. One less person to interact with.

Argue with someone else.

Alprova mistkenly wrote: "You refuse to stick to your own arguments."

Here is the ONLY statement I made regarding Obama and ACORN up until you starting ranting about innuendos and rumors: "What the cartoon doesn't show is the tree's hundreds and hundreds of unseen intertwining roots that wrap around the SEIU and reach all the way to the Oval Office."

I stand by that and have not wavered from it one bit.