published Thursday, January 21st, 2010

The Special Election

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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nucanuck said...

Americans of all stripes look at Washington and they don't like what they see. Back room deals,huge amounts of corporate money flowing into congressional accounts,predatory banking going unchecked,incomprehensible derivitives,bailing out Wall Street and sticking Main Street with the bill,war without end,mountains of debt...the list is long and the country is hurting.

Our country at times seems almost out of control and unless Washington finds a way to responsibly manage the affairs of state,then our politicians are all going to be subject to short Term Limits,no matter their party affiliation. The voters have had enough business-as-usual from both parties.

January 21, 2010 at 1:57 a.m.
woody said...

I admit, I have no idea why what happened up in Massachusetts happened, but I can tell you this. It had little or nothing to do with the current administration.

I, too, believe there should be an all out shakeup of the 'status quo' in Washington D.C., however, I view Tuesday's 'turnaround vote' as more of a confidence issue, or possibly a lack thereof in the Democratic candidate.

Mark my words, though, if Mr. Brown doesn't deliver what those voters expect of him, and really soon, he'll be back in the state before you know it.

And, Nucanuck, you are right. Change is needed, and badly. The problem, however, lies with all those who firmly believe their 'party' is the 'anointed one'. They can't believe that 'the other party' has any redeeming value or values whatsoever.

And until those folk can get their heads out of the clouds and their feet back on solid ground "business as usual" will continue to be business as usual.

Wishing everyone a happy Thursday, Woody

January 21, 2010 at 6:14 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Thank God for small mercies. And for clever puns. Now what's the alternative to business-as-usual? Conservatism, of course. Libertarianism. We can't trust the government--of either party--so shrink the government. I suspect the GOP is closer to learning this lesson, for the moment, than the Democrats. Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin are more in touch with the people, and with reality, than President Obama and Speaker Pelosi.
We can't trust business either, but it's a lot easier to avoid a business that goes bad than to avoid a government that goes bad. Come to think of it, can we trust ourselves? "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked." Sinners--us--repent (stop sinning) and turn to the non-sinner, Jesus Christ, including not just personal sins but political ones (www.lohr84.com).>

najones75 said...

All of the Libs can keep telling themselves whatever they want. But the fact remains that Brown blatantly and loudly ran on a platform of voting "no" to this health care bill, "no" to cap-n-trade, "no" to bailing out every business that starts to see their numbers in the red, low taxes and less government. You see the results.

If that's not a referendum on the President's agenda, then I don't know what is.

Good day.

January 21, 2010 at 6:47 a.m.
EaTn said...

Brown was often referred to as the next JFK for Massachusetts. I hardly thinks so. In his twenties JFK was leading a PT boat crew in WWII, not posing buck naked in a national women's magazine.

January 21, 2010 at 6:57 a.m.
MountainJoe said...

And in his forties, JFK was getting buck naked with Marilyn Monroe ... much to the chagrin of Jackie. Your point?

January 21, 2010 at 7:14 a.m.
EaTn said...

So you say that there's no difference in how conservatives or liberals view politicians' character as long as they are popular and vote getters.

January 21, 2010 at 7:35 a.m.
rolando said...

Check out Teddy's physique here: http://vetocorleone.com/2009/02/12/political-swimsuit-issue-22-photos-of-politicians-in-swimwear/ That's the one labeled "biggest". Thank God he wasn't naked.

January 21, 2010 at 7:58 a.m.
OllieH said...

My congratulations to Ken Brown. My condolences to America.

January 21, 2010 at 8:01 a.m.
aces25 said...

So what if the people vetoed? The purpose of lawmakers are to represent the interests of his or her constituents. If this is what the people in Mass. want, then so be it. Personally, I'm glad Coakley wasn't elected as she seemed to be from the same stock as much of the politicians in Washington. However, that isn't to say Brown won't behave the exact same way. At this point he simply appears to be something different than what is in Washington right now.

Being thrown in the fire right away, the next few months will be an excellent indicator of his character. If he fails, hopefully Mass. will vote accordingly.

Term limits is an excellent idea.

January 21, 2010 at 8:16 a.m.
rolando said...

Well, if the main thing you have against Senator Brown is his posing for Cosmo -- a rather racy women's mag -- you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel, EaTn.

Dear Leader's admitted illegal drug use is comparatively nothing to you? They were both of an age, yet you view illegal drug usage less evil than God's design of man/woman?

The way you are harping on Brown's posing, your "Relative Morality" switch must be in the OFF position today...

January 21, 2010 at 8:39 a.m.
rolando said...

Woody, you usually have better vision than that shown in your 6:14. Even allowing for your usual blind faith in "Hope and Change, you are really reaching for the blinders to not see the Dear Leader connection.

As najones75 said, "If that's not a referendum on the President's agenda, then I don't know what is."

January 21, 2010 at 8:44 a.m.
rolando said...

Excellent post, ace25.


Sen Scott -- and the people's election of him -- certainly has ALL the Dems running scared. Dear Leader himself has already backed down -- although that is no real surprise; he does that when challenged. If he doesn't have a packed house, he waffles.

January 21, 2010 at 8:51 a.m.
nativecitizen said...

Just wait and see if Senator-elect Brown will be treated like the movie character Mr. Smith, when he went to Washington with a vision of "right". Let's hope he is allowed to do "right", this Country needs it badly.

January 21, 2010 at 9:13 a.m.

Unfortunately, the Corrupt are many, good men and women are few. I think Rolando coined the word 'cesspool' on another post. That's what I believe it must be like to step up to Washington and step into..

EaTn is making me laugh 'til I snort. Yesterday and today he's just obsessed with Brown's naked body...do ya think? Nah, couldn't be.

Good posts guys, you common-sensers know who you are <@

January 21, 2010 at 9:40 a.m.

Thanks Rolando for that link, we really needed those laughs.

Schwarzenegger was scary and funny at the same time. Nixon had prettier legs than Hillary. John Kerry on his board looked like a scary metrosexual trying to look cool. What in tarnation was Bush doing fully clothed? Why didn't Bush Sr. surface to show off? Was he wearing his BD suit? Teddy at his 'biggest' was an ad for Livin' the Good Life Mag. (I had a horrible visual of him and his Pol friend using that poor waitress in a Washington bar- as a sandwich- arrrgh!)

And this is why politicians and the majority of folks in the nation should keep our clothes firmly on or as my beloved mother use to say, "cover yourself up and you cover up a multitude of sins dear." There's something to be said for right living and propriety at work and at play.

January 21, 2010 at 10:04 a.m.
anonymight said...

This is the best comment thread I've read. It is emblematic of what is going on in the nation. We still live in a representative republic. The people spoke in the Obama/McCain election and the people have been speaking in the various recent gubernatorial and this most recent Senate election. Here is the message I hear: End crony capitalism and socialism.

These elections have been about "change." Obama has promised change and has a few more years to deliver. This Senate race has shown that Obama better rethink the kind of change he wants to deliver. It is time to craft legislation that 70% of America can agree with not just 50.1%. Good things can be accomplished if Americans take off their Republican and Democratic blinders.

This is the kind of change I can believe in. This is where my hope lies.

January 21, 2010 at 11:15 a.m.
whoknows said...

EaTn has been cracking me up the past couple days with his obsession over Brown's nude posing! Great post Canary @9:40. And thanks for that link Rolando. It was good for a laugh too.

I'm with you too anonymight. I can believe in a change where we quit worrying about the game of politics. A change where the politicians start playing for the American people and not for their current seat, or a seat of higher power.

January 21, 2010 at 11:26 a.m.
EaTn said...

You guy's really were having a hoot with Obama and his community organizer, but can't take it when served your way. So now it's my turn with Brown and his exhibition side. Politics is more fun when you're playing offense. I love it and plan to get a lot of laughs from Cosmo Brown.

January 21, 2010 at 11:28 a.m.
woody said...

Rolando..I appreciate the compliment(?)and I would never insinuate that you were less than knowledgeable on any given subject. However, since you said it your self, I'll just clip and save it.....

Rolando stated....As najones75 said, "If that's not a referendum on the President's agenda, then I don't know what is."

Well, you said it. You don't know what it is.....(lol)

And as for what Mr. Lohr said earlier...."Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin are more in touch with the people, and with reality, than President Obama and Speaker Pelosi."

Now that's just scary.........

Here's wishing Rolando and Andrew a better day, Woody

January 21, 2010 at 12:08 p.m.
Sailorman said...

EaTn - as usual you're easily amused by trivial cr*p. Here's a suggestion - why don't you compare Brown's background with Obama's? Brown may not turn out to be worth anything but, blasphemy it may be to you, I would dare say is resume is more impressive than O's - by a lot.

January 21, 2010 at 12:09 p.m.
EaTn said...

Sailorman- you have been living on trivias for the past year in trying to define Pres.Obama. Several prominent politicians have been defined by unsavory things in their lives and some have risen above it. The conservative hero Rush has made a fortune pointing out the unsavory parts of politicians lives. Time will tell if Brown can rise above his- but in the meantime I'm enjoying the moments.

January 21, 2010 at 12:33 p.m.
Sailorman said...

"you have been living on trivias for the past year in trying to define Pres.Obama"

LOL maybe because "trivia" DOES define him. Like I said, compare the resumes. If the best you can do is a photo spread 29 years ago, go for it. Why don't you jump on the shoplifting arrest - when he was 12?

Here's the wikipedia version - wouldn't want you to have to look too hard.

January 21, 2010 at 2:34 p.m.
ctfpfan08 said...

Woody, you are on a roll today! Thank you for saying what I'm thinking.

January 21, 2010 at 3 p.m.
nucanuck said...

The US Senate,statesmen and strategic thinkers,

at least that's what I grew up thinking. Fewer and fewer Senators fit that description today. The last three,from Ill,NY,and MA,seem the weakest yet.

Instead of the Senate being a pinnacle of career accomplishment,it has become a corporate training ground for VPs in charge of lobbying. Get elected,become an insider and your skid is greased for life.

Scott Brown is neither a Republican victory nor Democrat defeat so much as a further weakening of statesman-thinker heritage we are continuing to lose.

January 21, 2010 at 3:02 p.m.
Sailorman said...

"Scott Brown is neither a Republican victory nor Democrat defeat so much as a further weakening of statesman-thinker heritage we are continuing to lose."

Bit quick on the trigger aren't you? We will see how Brown does. Having said that, I fear your assessment, certainly of the body as a whole, is all too correct.

January 21, 2010 at 3:32 p.m.
EaTn said...

For the past twenty years or so I first watched the Democrats commit political suicide, followed by the Republicans and now the Democrats seem to be headed in that direction. In Mass they may as well have put a target on Coakley's back with the quote "shoot me". The whole process reminds me of the strategy in Civil War battle: line up and shoot or be shot then repeat until no one is left. Unfortunately in DC when one is shot down there's always another just like them that jumps up.

January 21, 2010 at 4:02 p.m.
anonymight said...

At least Clay didn't have this tea partier burning a cross like in one of his earlier cartoons.

January 21, 2010 at 5:57 p.m.
rolando said...

A bit more seriously, think for a moment of what it is to be a Senator/Rep.

Monstrous temptation/bribes/offers/whatever from all sides. How many men or women could resist the offer of free lifetime living in a house like Tiger's? With a $50,000,000 annual income delivered anywhere and in any manner -- gold, diamonds, drugs, whatever? Young women/men hanging on your every word, begging to satisfy your every need/desire? Private jets/yachts/schooners to anywhere in the world with the finest accommodations? All for what? A vote.

How many of us here today could truly resist that? No need to answer - I probably wouldn't believe you anyway. Nor would you believe me. But each of us knows our own hearts.

Now, apply that to our current Congressmen/women. Think about the digging into their backgrounds looking for something/anything to slap against them -- pre-teen shoplifting, driving off a bridge and swimming away, smoking but not inhaling, inhaling but not smoking cigarettes, bedding MM, etc., etc. Then think about whether you would take the job at any price...some things just aren't worth the hassle. Think Condi or any number of very well qualified folks who walked away from Washington in disgust.

Then wonder why we have so few truly capable America-First -- Me-Second folks apply for the job...

It is the public's fault we are at the point, you know. All we had to do was turn away from the National Inquirers, the Hollywood tripe, the scandal sheets...but we didn't.

Oh well, time to watch a flic, play Dragon Age, anything.

/soapbox OFF

January 21, 2010 at 8:11 p.m.
rolando said...

A parting shot for those who refuse or cannot understand what Tuesday's vote was all about, I offer this [from CNN, no less]:

Cafferty for Prez!

http://www.breitbart.tv/cnns-cafferty-on-pelosi-what-a-horrible-woman/

January 21, 2010 at 11:02 p.m.

Love that Cafferty! Says it like it is. Here's another from A Liberal columnist, Michael Goodwin who voted for Obama, in a Liberal Paper, the New York Post (12-09):

Speaking of growing up a "Boomer", he notes, "Yet for all the drama and change, the years only occasionally instilled in me the sensation I feel almost constantly now. I am afraid for my country. I am afraid-actually certain-we are losing the heart and soul that made America unique in human history. Yes, we have enemies, but the greatest danger comes from within.

Watching the freak show in Copenhagen, ...I was alternately furious and filled with dread. The world has gone absolutely bonkers and lunatics are in charge. Dictators (Robert) Mugabe (Zimbabwe) and (Hugo) Chavez (Venezuela), are treated with respect, and the United Nations is serious about wanting to regulate our industry and transfer our wealth to kleptocrats and genocidal maniacs. Even more frightening, our own leaders joined the circus. Marching to the band of international drummers, they uncoupled themselves from the will of the people they were elected to serve.

President Obama for whom I voted because I believed he was the best choice available, is a profound disappointment. I now regard his campaign as a sly bait-and-switch operation, promising one thing and delivering another. Shame on me. Equally surprising, he has become an insufferable bore.The grace notes and charm have vanished, with peevishness and petty spite his default emotions. His rhetorical gifts now serve his loathsome habit of fear-mongering."....

Sound familiar? Many of us have been saying exactly this for the last two years, if not more. We are called 'paranoid',' morons', 'rednecks', 'negative', toxic, uninformed, etc. I guess the millions of voters who have now voted in 3 states and soon will be voting likewise in more, are also 'stupid' and 'paranoid'. Instead of doing their own homework themselves the Left slam conservatives on a daily basis. If we dare to speak up and defend what is right and true, they use classic, Alinsky/Union/Left to Marx tactics in attempting to silence us. Ah, but the voters voted and will vote again. We need more honesty like this instead of the same old dishonesty, denial and doublespeak. The time of the mealy-mouthed Progressive needs to be over-way over.

January 22, 2010 at 9:43 a.m.
rolando said...

As with algore's bogus "global warming" foo-fah-rah, the real picture of America-bashing Barack Hussain Obama is coming into the light as more and more people are speaking out against the man...and speaking out in specific truths, not glowing generalities.

The man commands a failed presidency; he has no idea of where or how to proceed in any regard beyond his own self-interest. His first 10 years of life -- his most formative years -- he was an "outsider" of American extraction with America-despising parent(s) living in a Socialistic country. His character was formed through a foreign education; consequently, he has no true concept of American standards/social concepts, etc. He stumbles his way from point A through point C to point F without touching the others, giving away America en route and promoting his terrorist, racist, communist, tax-cheating, Eugenics-promoting, outright incompetent, and/or NAMBLA-supporting friends et al along the way.

Thank God he is being brought under control. [And Thank God for Massachusetts' voters. They made it just in time...again.]

January 22, 2010 at 12:25 p.m.
Max said...

What it really comes down to is a small number of voters having a major impact due to circumstances. Brown won by 100,000 votes, so a change of about 50,000 voters would have led to a different outcome. 50,000 votes does not a groundswell or referendum make. The Dems had a weak candidate and the economic recovery has been slow in coming when it comes to jobs. The recession was not the work of Obama and the administration did what it had to to stop the free fall. There seems to be a populist sentiment growing but the GOP doesn't reflect it by opposing the proposed tax on big banks. So there is no certain message to be discerned here other than anger.

January 22, 2010 at 3:53 p.m.

Keep on deluding yourselves, looks good on ya. It's called righteous anger for what's been going on in our country for YEARS. The facts now, are that the whole mess has been made messier by the Congress of Clowns (since 2006) and the Chief Mess-Maker himself.

This is the here and now. You will not see the Town-hallers and the Tea Partiers smashing storefronts and beating up old women and men, putting them into the hospital, as the Left-Haters and the Black Panthers have done recently, with full immunity from prosecution. But oh how the conservatives are hated and reviled. For what? For speaking up and for voting. Without the 'help' of ACORN, imagine that. Keep on spinnin' it any way you want to, it doesn't wash with most Americans by the looks of it.

January 22, 2010 at 4:04 p.m.
EaTn said...

While all the right-wingers are patting themselves on the back for the Brown win, I'd like to throw a dose of realty out there. This was Mass and not Tenn. Had Brown run here or anywhere else in the South, a few flashes of his Cosmo photos would have sunk him faster than the "Call me Harold" trick did to Ford.

January 22, 2010 at 4:48 p.m.
rolando said...

Much the same could be said of Obama himself, Max. He won by about the same percentage of the voters. Had a mere 3% or so swung over to McCain, we would be railing against HIM today instead of Dear Leader. Railing against different, not so destructive things, of course.

Speaking of swing opinions, Barney Frank today has suddenly reversed himself and called for the abolition of his favorite children [the only ones he will ever have], FannieMae and FreddieMac. [see wsj.com]. Now if that south bound end of a northbound horse and his equally southbound ended friend Conn. Democrat Sen Dodd had heard Bush 2's plea to rein in those two orgs and even end them, the entire depression we are now in might have been avoided. But no, those two [insert word here] simply HAD to enable the destruction of our economy. Who says a couple idiots cannot change the world...for the worse.

Speaking of Dodd, he resigned knowing he would never be re-elected.

January 22, 2010 at 4:48 p.m.
rolando said...

Tennessee already votes Republican, EaTn, or hadn't you noticed? You are really hung up on that photo, aren't you?

Don't kid yourself, all those southern belles here are drooling over that centerfold. He would be a shoe-in with them. He is even enough of a man's man that all but the most envious [and the self-righteous] would elect him. Face it -- he is a chick-magnet.

January 22, 2010 at 4:56 p.m.
Max said...

Forgive me if my math is wrong rolando, but Obama won by 10 million votes out of 130 million votes cast(69m+ vs 59m+)about an 8% difference, so maybe a 4% shift. Of course that would mean more than 5 million people not 50,000.

January 22, 2010 at 6:11 p.m.
EaTn said...

rolando- sounds like some besides the belles are drooling over the photo. I guess the right-wingers would really be tickled when their young daughters hears how much mom and dad likes him and and plasters the Cosmo photo all over their bedroom.

January 22, 2010 at 6:15 p.m.
EaTn said...

It's been a low profile decision, but the recent Supreme Court ruling to allow unlimited corporation and special interest spending basically killed the free votes and majority rule system in this country. From now on the unlimited special interest and corporate funds will flood the airways with their candidate or issues. This will sound great to some until they realize their freedom of votes was just washed away and replaced with the power of the dollar. We all know the dollar has a multiple voice over the average voter.

January 22, 2010 at 6:38 p.m.
alprova said...

Sailorman wrote: "...why don't you compare Brown's background with Obama's? Brown may not turn out to be worth anything but, blasphemy it may be to you, I would dare say is resume is more impressive than O's - by a lot."

Not a whole lot.

The man has just won his first election to represent Massachusetts in Washington. He served as a Massachusetts Congressman for three terms. Prior to that he held two localized positions. Outside of his political aspirations, the man is a practicing Attorney.

He is however a 29 year member of the Massachusetts National Guard, which does set him apart from the President, who to the best of my knowledge has not served in the military at all.

Outside of Massachusetts, the man was not known to a soul...until now that is.

Time will tell how effective he will be and for sure, people are going to watch how this man votes. He will be courted by many in the Republican Party, pleasing some and ticking off others, depending on how far from the center he leans.

If he votes strictly conservative, the man will not last long at all.

January 22, 2010 at 7:13 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: A parting shot for those who refuse or cannot understand what Tuesday's vote was all about..."

I wouldn't read too much into this little triumph.

January 22, 2010 at 7:21 p.m.
rolando said...

The Dems are certainly reading a lot into it, alprova. Heh, heh. How're those sour grapes?

January 22, 2010 at 8:15 p.m.
rolando said...

There are worse things then the daughters posting it, EaTn...it could be the SONS papering the room with the photo.

Even as sad as that sounds, at least the kids wouldn't be hiding it in their school locker...along with their real school clothes. Out in the open you can at least discuss it with them.

January 22, 2010 at 8:22 p.m.
EaTn said...

rolando- true, I keep forgetting it's not the '60's attitude out there, some are for better and some for worse.

I can deal with party rivalry, but it will be a sad day when you and I have nothing to debate. The recent SC ruling on unlimited corporate and special interest spending will take the elections and issues from decisions at the polls to being decided at Wall Street. Republicans and Democrats will become an obsolete term. This is a sad point in our history regardless of your political preference.

January 22, 2010 at 8:35 p.m.
rolando said...

Some have it at 52-47, some at 53-46, Max. The final results are not in yet -- absentee ballots.

Obama won nationally, 52.9-45.6 or just over 3 1/2 percent.

Percentage of the vote is the only meaningful comparison between the two elections. Your weak attempt to compare national and state populations is laughable.

The Dims were so overconfident that Coakley would win, they didn't bother to call in ACORN et al. So we got as honest an election and we can get. These are the result.

January 22, 2010 at 8:58 p.m.
rolando said...

EaTn, you forget that the SCOTUS decision also removed the limit from another special interest group...the unions.

People again have the power, the ability, and the right to listen to whichever source they wish...or none...or all... and vote their conscience. Problem is, will they do that or choose the easy, thought-out-for-them way that has become the modus operandi?

All of this discussion, at least on my part -- any yours, I think -- is to get people the Sam Hill out of the box and look around. I happen to do it in an earthy, sometimes irritating manner that grates with some, but there it is...to each his own.

January 22, 2010 at 9:13 p.m.
sd said...

Ms. Canary, I've read your comments for a while now and I think I know what the problem is. You need Mai Tais, supplemented with a blog-free, radio-free week at a nice beach. Consider treating yourself.

Even more off topic, but I give rolando a +1 to Awesome just for being a Bioware fan.

January 22, 2010 at 10:08 p.m.
Oz said...

The left has the media and the Supreme Court just leveled the playing field. That's why the DemonCrats are going nuts.

January 22, 2010 at 10:23 p.m.
rolando said...

Fantastic idea, sd. I vote for a wk at Daytona during Bike Week.

Now if I can just get past the fat lady with the tentacles, I will be fine. Using my assassin/duelist rogue, the big dude from the cage, the herbalist and the axe-swingin' dwarf without luck. Gotta keep switchin' and hackin'. Need to pick up the stone dude, maybe.

January 22, 2010 at 10:27 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "The Dems are certainly reading a lot into it, alprova. Heh, heh. How're those sour grapes?"

On a good day, you're not worth debating. I certainly am in no mood to discuss anything with you while you are excited and aroused.

Go take a cold shower.

January 22, 2010 at 11:30 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "Obama won nationally, 52.9-45.6 or just over 3 1/2 percent."

Math wasn't one of your strong subjects, was it?

52.9 minus 45.6 is a difference of 7.3 percent.

January 22, 2010 at 11:34 p.m.
rolando said...

If anything, alprova, you are a wet blanket and certain neither "arousing" nor "exciting". If things are that bad for you under Dear Leader, why the comments directed toward me? I am supposed to slink away like a dog with his tail between his legs? Nawh, that's a liberal's way of avoiding fact-based disagreement...

The sour grapes are that bad, huh?

Heh, heh.

Thanks. I grew a bit fond of the occasional cold shower while stationed oversea...that's all there was.

January 23, 2010 at 4:57 a.m.
rolando said...

And the winning half of that is?? Just over 3 1/2 percent as I said, alprova. One loses, the other gains. If you can't keep up with the finer points of the discussion I was having with Max, stay quiet.

Try unzipping...you can at least count to 11 that way.

I guess.

Maybe not.

January 23, 2010 at 5:05 a.m.

sd: Thanks, I just came from 13 years at the beach and it was a 'beach' all right. Surrounded by failing Progressive policies, perverts, the lowlifes of every persuasion. Diversity everywhere. Sure was an eyeopener and proves just what doesn't work for our states or our country. Sounds like you need a dose of reality and maybe the ability to speak up yourself instead of hiding in the shadows and sniping at me from the sidelines, as so many here do. Do you have anything worthwhile to add to the discussion? Sounds as if you don't. If you or any of your genius crowd can dispute whatever I've said and prove I'm wrong, be my guest. So far many of you have tried and have failed miserably. Can't walk the walk, eh?

alprova said: "Not a whole lot. The man has just won his first election to represent Massachusetts in Washington. He served as a Massachusetts Congressman for three terms. Prior to that he held two localized positions. Outside of his political aspirations, the man is a practicing Attorney. He is however a 29 year member of the Massachusetts National Guard, which does set him apart from the President, who to the best of my knowledge has not served in the military at all. Outside of Massachusetts, the man was not known to a soul...until now that is."

And this was said to disprove what Rolando stated re: Dear Leader's resume? Outside of his Senate cronies nobody else heard of Obama either. So what?

Obama's entire resume consisted of writing a Marxist thesis a la Saul Alinsky in university. Assistant teaching for a while. Working for ACORN as an attorney and helping them with PR and organizing, then a couple of years in the Senate voting 'Present' 99.9% of the time. His university years? Paid for by a radical Muslim Chicago 'friend'. His political career? Helped entirely by an A-list of more radicals, esp. from Chicago. Ran a good campaign. Brought his Chicago corrupto machine to Washington with him. Still campaigning to this day. Record? Miserable failure. Grade: F-. Little victory for Sen Brown? Wait and see. Brown not conservative at all? He's moderate AND conservative in his voting record and with his policies. So, before telling us what Brown is and what he'll do, let's see what crawls out from under the rock, as we are seeing now with the Pres. Very telling that. Like living by the beach in Kookie-for-ni-a.

January 23, 2010 at 9:15 a.m.

BTW, it's evident those who snipe us but cannot/won't address the facts of what we say, are blowing hot air through their noses (and their brains). Not one addressed Rolando's facts about Frank and Dodd. They concentrated on his math.

I have almost no time to listen to the radio genius. And I don't lockstep with anyone, least of all news pundits. My words are my own and anyone who has known me for years, even decades, knows I've been saying the very same things all along. In years past and in other countries, you would have seen me in the marketplace, debating the old men and arguing politics, life, etc. And then going off together laughing, for a bite to eat. Today? This is my (our) public soapbox and I still bring my point of view to the public arena. Difference? Most of you guys don't know or understand the art of debate. It's not clinical or 'nice' or whitewashed. And the Left is full of bile and vitriol with no facts to contribute. Don't like it or me? Tough beans.

The difference between me and you. You guys ARE in lockstep with the left-Progressive drivel and won't admit it. Many of you have no experience living with rabid Liberal/Socialist policies and failures as I have. Many of you live in a bubble and think because you earned a degree or somesuch, that makes you all 'experts'. Many of you have never gone hungry, lived or worked in real ghettos or with the poor and the criminally-minded. As far as what I've seen here on this site the last 6 or 7 months and what is going on in the real world, here in Chatt and outside of the South, you are what's wrong with the picture. While some fight the battles and speak out against evil or fight to protect their country, all your kind do is pontificate, deviate, obscufate and manipulate the Truth. You and your safe little worlds. Pssh. We'll see how long that lasts. Historically, not long.

January 23, 2010 at 9:43 a.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "If anything, alprova, you are a wet blanket and certain neither "arousing" nor "exciting". If things are that bad for you under Dear Leader, why the comments directed toward me?"

The above response is more proof that you are incapable of comprehending simple English.

My life, "under Dear Leader" as you coin it, is rather fantastic at the moment. The difference between you and myself is that I don't pin every little thing that pertains to my life on who happens to be in the White House.

I am still very pleased with President Obama. He is perhaps the most HUMAN and HUMBLE of men who has been elected to the office since JFK.

Pinning the hopes of bringing the Democrats and the President down via the election of an unknown quantity, elected to fill the shoes of Ted Kennedy, who despite his own human failures, was beloved by the majority of the electorate, is extremely pathetic.

"I am supposed to slink away like a dog with his tail between his legs? Nawh, that's a liberal's way of avoiding fact-based disagreement..."

Rolando, please let me know when you introduce any facts into your posts, because the simple fact is that you rarely offer them.

"The sour grapes are that bad, huh?"

On the contrary. Your take on the borderline successful election of Scott Brown, very much like all the other hopeful Republican /Conservatives, is entertaining, to say the least.

One election is hardly a coup.

January 23, 2010 at 12:02 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando offered: "And the winning half of that is?? Just over 3 1/2 percent as I said, alprova."

What possible difference does it make what the half amount of a percentage happens to be? President Obama received 7.3 percent more votes cast than John McCain did.

"If you can't keep up with the finer points of the discussion I was having with Max, stay quiet."

Sorry. Unless someone failed to send me the memo, you were not appointed moderator of this forum.

Don't get mad just because you can't count past three and a half to get to seven point three.

January 23, 2010 at 12:19 p.m.
sd said...

Canary, I was just making an observation. There is certainly an art to debate. I think avoiding logical fallacies (including sweeping generalizations and ad hominem attacks) is a big part of what distinguishes an open debate from a quarrel between ideologues.

January 23, 2010 at 2:39 p.m.
rolando said...

Once again, alprova, you show your inability to comprehend the discussion; you have changed it into something rather remote from the basic premise and, quite frankly, I refuse to play your little game. You didn't like the discussion so you went off into la-la land. You weren't even the one to bring up the percentages yet you jump in giving your totally unrelated [and unasked for] opinion based on some off the wall idea you had to make your man look ever so much better than he is.

As one of the guys here said to some hyper-critical small-time player -- "Bite me."

January 23, 2010 at 4:56 p.m.

And for the finale sd: Your "observations" were very snipey and no facts were attached. Therefore, I am left to believe you ma'am have fried your brains drinking much too much Mai Tai mixers.

My posts consisted of proven facts and no generalities at all. If I choose to "observe" the state the State is in, well, I am certainly entitled to do so. If there are some like yourself, whose delicate 'sensitivities' have been disturbed by my facts and observations, they need to depart this very public forum and take up reading Better Homes and Gardens or The Complete Guide to Fairies and the Little Folk. Those in the White House, whom we address, are more akin to Dante's Inferno, which is definitely not for the squeamish.

January 23, 2010 at 8:48 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando whined with: "Once again, alprova, you show your inability to comprehend the discussion; you have changed it into something rather remote from the basic premise and, quite frankly, I refuse to play your little game."

Your weak assertions aside, it really is simple mathematics.

"You didn't like the discussion so you went off into la-la land. You weren't even the one to bring up the percentages yet you jump in giving your totally unrelated [and unasked for] opinion based on some off the wall idea you had to make your man look ever so much better than he is."

Now you and I both know that no matter what I state, be it opinion or fact, it would never change your mind in regard to the man who happens to be President at the moment.

You attempted to discount the percentage of the vote received by President Obama by halving it and drawing a line somewhere in the middle of the sand and I corrected you. I further offered that your orgasmic frenzy due to the win of a self-proclaimed, centrist candidate, who happens to barely be a Republican, is rather silly.

Just as you seem to have no problem offering your opinions, so shall I. If you can't stand the heat, then don't turn on the burner.

As one of the guys here said to some hyper-critical small-time player -- "Bite me."

Isn't it amazing how some people can never, ever admit to a mistake and move on?

Sir, in the future, if you are seeking to maintain a private conversation, I suggest you pick up a phone and dial AT&T.

January 23, 2010 at 9:24 p.m.
alprova said...

Canaryinthecoalmine weighed in with: "My posts consisted of proven facts and no generalities at all."

Pure hogwash. Your posts are routinely filled with repetitive garbage that should have long ago rotted in a landfill.

"Obama's entire resume consisted of writing a Marxist thesis a la Saul Alinsky in university. Assistant teaching for a while."

If you would take the time to delve into the man's history, you'd find just how far off the beaten path you are.

You're set in your biased and misled opinions, and you can wallow in them for all I care.

"Working for ACORN as an attorney and helping them with PR and organizing..."

You nor anyone else can begin to substantiate that charge, with the exception of one case that the man took on and that he has admitted to being involved with many times.

But let's say for the moment that you are 100% correct and that the man was at one time knee deep in the organization known as ACORN.

So what?

It's clear to anyone with a brain that the entire to movement to discredit and to drive ACORN out of existence is very much rooted in a premise that has been ongoing for more than 200 years in this country.

The Republicans will do anything at all to prevent the blacks and the impoverished of this nation from casting votes at the polls, for one reason; They almost always vote for Democrats.

"...then a couple of years in the Senate voting 'Present' 99.9% of the time."

Is this a fact that you claim to offer and have researched?

The man cast more than 1,100 votes as a United States Senator, with 129 of them cast as "present." That works out to around only 11.7%.

"His university years? Paid for by a radical Muslim Chicago 'friend'."

A ridiculous lie, to say the least. You choose to believe innuendo as fact.

"His political career? Helped entirely by an A-list of more radicals, esp. from Chicago. Ran a good campaign. Brought his Chicago corrupto machine to Washington with him. Still campaigning to this day. Record? Miserable failure. Grade: F-."

You know the old saying. Opinions are like....

"Little victory for Sen Brown? Wait and see."

No thanks. The man is not on my radar screen. He's not the first Republican elected within the state of Massachusetts and he will not be the last.

He's the flavor of the month and right now, every last Republican is as giddy as a school child, rubbing their hands in anticipation of how best to portray this man, and most of all, trying to figure out how to twist him like a door knob.

The Alabama convert that had everyone in the Republican Party so excited last month? He's already on the skids. Supposedly, there is a little mistrust in the air. I guess he's not going to become Play-Dough after all.

Will this be Scott Brown in February?

The Republican Party is imploding in front of your eyes and you're simply too blind to see it.

That's very sad indeed.

January 23, 2010 at 10:21 p.m.

alprova whined AND spewed more slime: "Pure hogwash. Your posts are routinely filled with repetitive garbage that should have long ago rotted in a landfill."

Prove it.

The Progressives have proven to be the most racist, minority-hating group of people in the last 80 years. Margaret Sanger (Planned Parenthood-racist and eugenicist). Hitler (Progressive, racist, mass murderer), Woodrow Wilson to Jimmy Carter to Bill and Hilary Clinton. All weak leaders and did little to nothing to elevate minorities, whether in their administrations, offices or personal lives. They 'victim' them with their so-called compassion yet would never live next door to any poor minorities. Hypocrites, the lot of you.

Everything you just spewed out in your diatribe of hatred was absolute lying nonsense. You and your ilk are the ones that desperately need to do your own homework-objectively. I check verifiable, proven sources, not the ones you have cited as 'sources' on other posts: Abc, cbs, cnn, and from your lockstep remarks, we have to assume DailyKOS and Moveon as well. Wow, one criticism of Obama and you're off the deep end. Says alot about your obsessive love affair with the guy.

We've seen and heard the endless videos and speeches of Obama and his friends outlining his work at ACORN (who btw convicted themselves with their proven corrupt behaviors). The videos of Black Panthers, allowed by Holder's office to beat and intimidate voters, Holder's office refusing to prosecute, on and on. You are the sore losers. We just sit back and watch and listen to the explosions/implosions of the corrupt Dems-doing it to themselves. No one said Sen. Brown was God btw. So unwad your gaunchies and take your meds bud. It's going to be a wild ride until 2012.

January 23, 2010 at 10:51 p.m.
alprova said...

Canaryinthecoalmine spewed: "The Progressives have proven to be the most racist, minority-hating group of people in the last 80 years."

Please. Are you a used car salesman? Try selling that to someone who doesn't have a brain.

"...(comparisons snipped)...Hypocrites, the lot of you."

I'm sorry, but it's real hard to respond to accusations of any kind, when you resort to inserting Hitler into the conversation. I couldn't stop laughing.

"Everything you just spewed out in your diatribe of hatred was absolute lying nonsense. You and your ilk are the ones that desperately need to do your own homework-objectively."

Hatred, huh? You always make that accusation when someone takes on your "facts." Who do you really think you are fooling?

"I check verifiable, proven sources, not the ones you have cited as 'sources' on other posts: Abc, cbs, cnn, and from your lockstep remarks, we have to assume DailyKOS and Moveon as well."

Your most stupid "fact," was to claim that Mr. Obama voted "present" 99.9% of the time as Senator, when every vote is recorded and can be found very easily online.

Cite your "verifiable, proven source" on that one, Sir.

"Wow, one criticism of Obama and you're off the deep end. Says alot about your obsessive love affair with the guy."

One? Your math is as lousy as Rolando's.

What...Did you think that you can lay out lies in a public forum and that no one should or would call you on them?

We've seen and heard the endless videos and speeches of Obama and his friends outlining his work at ACORN (who btw convicted themselves with their proven corrupt behaviors)."

The man has admitted no such thing and you will not find one video on earth that will prove otherwise. You're free to try to dig one up though.

"The videos of Black Panthers, allowed by Holder's office to beat and intimidate voters, Holder's office refusing to prosecute, on and on."

Eric Holder and the DOJ have neither jurisdiction nor authority to prosecute issues of intimidation at a polling location. All elections are under the jurisdiction of the respective states in which they are held.

No one was "beaten" or even so much as touched by a Black Panther during that incident.

The Justice Department did file a lawsuit against three members of the Black Panthers on January 8, 2009. The lawsuit against the three men was dropped on May, 29, 2009.

Do you EVER delve into the facts of ANYTHING?

"You are the sore losers. We just sit back and watch and listen to the explosions/implosions of the corrupt Dems-doing it to themselves. No one said Sen. Brown was God btw. So unwad your gaunchies and take your meds bud. It's going to be a wild ride until 2012."

Naw...it's going to be a lotta hype and hope until 2012 for folks like yourself.

January 24, 2010 at 1:35 a.m.

You're so wrong alprova, your nose is brown. You hate people like me because there are far more of us who know the Truth than not, so your kind like to spin it and manipulate it all day long, deceiving the rest. The speeches/videos with audio do not lie. The written records do not lie. The statements from Holder's assistants do not lie. The hospital records of the beatings and the videos do not lie. The ever-growing population of Dems and Indies who voted for Obama and have now recanted, do not lie.

You need to stick to viewing and commenting on your deviant, Trans-gender/Gay websites you 'visit' and if not, there will always be a Lightnup or a Canary to call you on your hateful filth and lies. You and the arrogant ones with your agenda will see justice sooner rather than later. If I were you, I'd be making my peace with the Lord soon. None of us know what the future holds. Especially with the vote.

January 24, 2010 at 12:58 p.m.
alprova said...

canaryinthecoalmine wrote: "You're so wrong alprova, your nose is brown. You hate people like me because there are far more of us who know the Truth than not, so your kind like to spin it and manipulate it all day long, deceiving the rest."

Ya' can't back up your "facts," so it's on to the, "I'm right and you're wrong" diatribe, and the "spin speech."

"The speeches/videos with audio do not lie. The written records do not lie. The statements from Holder's assistants do not lie. The hospital records of the beatings and the videos do not lie. The ever-growing population of Dems and Indies who voted for Obama and have now recanted, do not lie."

And yet, you can't post a link to so much as one source of evidence that you previously claimed was "verified and reliable."

"You need to stick to viewing and commenting on your deviant, Trans-gender/Gay websites you 'visit' and if not, there will always be a Lightnup or a Canary to call you on your hateful filth and lies."

Uh oh...now you're going to resort to becoming totally childish, all because I challenged you for dumping garbage. Based on you're prior postings, I thought you were better person than that.

I guess not.

"You and the arrogant ones with your agenda will see justice sooner rather than later. If I were you, I'd be making my peace with the Lord soon. None of us know what the future holds. Especially with the vote.

You really need to be concerned with your own soul and you really need to grow up. All you have done is to expose just how weak your positions and opinions really are, and the fact that you are another one of those people who never backs off of a lie. They've convinced themselves that it's the truth, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

January 24, 2010 at 2:26 p.m.

alp: "Uh oh...now you're going to resort to becoming totally childish, all because I challenged you for dumping garbage. Based on you're prior postings, I thought you were better person than that."

There you go again, you have never thought anything but hatred towards those who disagree with you. Your previous words prove that. If that is childish, fine. I would rather be like a child, than a self-righteous elitist. You know very well that I choose not to do other's homework for them and post links all over. I do not give into the demands of fabricators, underminers and perverted thinkers either.

Both Lightnup and I have been dealing with your lies and poor knowledge/research of subjects for months now. You managed to disgust Lightnup so much he probably left for less stressful territory and I don't blame him. He spent hours giving you and the other geniuses fact after fact. The truth is, the Progressive mind is so twisted, it cannot process facts, real experience or Truth.

I will continue to call you and your ilk on your pernicious lies and misinformation agenda. You will continue to trash me and any others who dare contradict and illuminate your vile nature, your superior elitism towards us, the 'masses' and what kind of enemy we are really fighting within our own borders.

You once bragged your wife is so wonderful and comes from a local, moneyed family. I can guess on that one, but one thing is for sure, you felt the need to tell everyone that bit of news and how wonderful your life is. I don't believe it for a minute. If we were to roll over your stone...well, that may be another story.

January 25, 2010 at 1:54 a.m.
alprova said...

canaryinthecoalmine wrote: "There you go again, you have never thought anything but hatred towards those who disagree with you."

I don't hate a soul on earth. But I do detest liars and thieves. And you Sir are a pathetic liar.

"Your previous words prove that."

Not on your best day can you make that one stick. I call BS when I see it, unfortunately for people like you.

Dislike the President if you must, but why make up lies about the man? Why make up lies on what happened in Philadelphia? The facts are not on your side, and they never have been.

"If that is childish, fine. I would rather be like a child, than a self-righteous elitist."

So be it then.

"You know very well that I choose not to do other's homework for them and post links all over. I do not give into the demands of fabricators, underminers and perverted thinkers either."

You couldn't begin to back up the utterly ignorant statements you made and that were challenged, so you're going to pathetically hide behind your computer like a complete idiot, thinking that you have a shred of credibility to your name. You squandered it all in this thread.

Both Lightnup and I have been dealing with your lies and poor knowledge/research of subjects for months now."

Pal, I challenge you to post and quote ONE provable LIE that I have ever posted in this forum. EVERY time that I have been shown to be in error, I have admitted to the error and apologized.

"I will continue to call you and your ilk on your pernicious lies and misinformation agenda. You will continue to trash me and any others who dare contradict and illuminate your vile nature, your superior elitism towards us, the 'masses' and what kind of enemy we are really fighting within our own borders."

Lots of words. Too bad they mean nothing at all, because you Sir are truly pathetic. And because you refuse to offer proof to any truth to the statements you posted, I will be more than happy to post links that will more than prove the facts and that you purposely lied.

Obama's complete Senate voting record:

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/votes/page13/

The truth to Obama's involvement with ACORN:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/17/karl-rove/rove-claims-obama-used-to-be-lawyer-for-acorn/

The New Black Panther Story:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Feds-Suing-New-Black-Panther-Party-for-Philly-Voter-Intimidation.html

http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/05/29/top_stories/doc4a1f42b32c161287079901.txt

January 25, 2010 at 6:46 p.m.
Sailorman said...

geeez you two - get a room :)

January 25, 2010 at 7:23 p.m.
SCOTTYM said...

Per alprova's last link above:

"Obama appointees did not want to proceed with the case, while the career prosecutors did."

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

I wonder what would happen if someone dressed up like a klan member and stood out in front of my voting place in N.Chattanooga brandishing a billy-club.

I'd bet it wouldn't be brushed aside so easily.

January 25, 2010 at 7:48 p.m.

Right Scotty, the 'genius' trasher above should interview the people who definitely got hit and shoved to the ground. And they aren't the only ones. People in other cities a few months ago were beaten badly and taken to the hospital. Look at his 'proof'-nbc, washington post, the bulletin...I rest my case, the guy lives in a leftist fog of disinformation.

Sailorman, I'd get a room if you could guarantee I wouldn't puke. This guy is pure sickness. If you had to deal with his hatred, which he directs mostly at myself, since Lightnup took off, well, you might have another opinion. What and who do you guys answer to on this site? And for what reason? Everyone here who posts usually attempts to dispute what they consider to be disputable, lies or not. But not everyone gets the violent hatred directed at them like we self-avowed Christians. What we see and hear here is pure, evil hatred-in living color. It sure is an education alright.

January 25, 2010 at 8:25 p.m.
alprova said...

Scotty wrote: "Obama appointees did not want to proceed with the case, while the career prosecutors did."

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

I wonder what would happen if someone dressed up like a klan member and stood out in front of my voting place in N.Chattanooga brandishing a billy-club.

I'd bet it wouldn't be brushed aside so easily."

I'm in no way stating that the men did anything that was right, wrong, or indifferent. I wasn't there. Canary stated that "[Black Panthers were] allowed by Holder's office to beat and intimidate voters" and that is a provable lie.

No one was touched or even verbally accosted by any of the three men, other than a Fox News (now there's a surprise) reporter, who exploited the situation exponentially and blew the situation completely out of proportion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/04/black-panthers-vs-fox-new_n_141083.html

January 26, 2010 at 3:31 a.m.
alprova said...

Canary wrote: "Right Scotty, the 'genius' trasher above should interview the people who definitely got hit and shoved to the ground. And they aren't the only ones."

Post the proof. It did not happen. Why do you continue to lie when you KNOW you can't back it up?

"People in other cities a few months ago were beaten badly and taken to the hospital. Look at his 'proof'-nbc, washington post, the bulletin...I rest my case, the guy lives in a leftist fog of disinformation."

Post the proof of your assertions that anyone, white, black, red, or even green, anywhere in this country...was beaten, shoved, hit, or who went on camera, stating that they were prevented from voting on November 4, 2008.

It doggone for sure didn't happen in Philadelphia at that particular voting poll location.

January 26, 2010 at 3:38 a.m.
alprova said...

Canary sang to the heavens with: "Everyone here who posts usually attempts to dispute what they consider to be disputable, lies or not. But not everyone gets the violent hatred directed at them like we self-avowed Christians. What we see and hear here is pure, evil hatred-in living color. It sure is an education alright."

Friend, I am a self-avowed Christian, whether you care to believe it or not. What I am not is an Christian with extremist views, based on a select few passages contained within the Bible. If that happens to be contrary to your set of religious beliefs, it's not my problem. That is your problem.

Considering the tone of your responses in this thread towards myself, I have reason to understand that you consider yourself to be an example of someone who thinks that they are somehow morally superior. That's find and dandy with me. I don't answer to you.

Bearing false witness against your neighbor is among those ten prohibitive commandments that we are to apply to our lives each day. I'm relatively certain that bearing false witness against the President of the United States and the New Black Panthers is as bad as manufacturing a lie about anyone else.

Making a mistake is one thing. To continue to stand by a mistake once it is proven to be untrue, is another.

I don't know what your problem is, but you really need to get a grip on reality. I have in no manner impugned your character as a self-avowed Christian, other than to accuse you of bearing false witness, but you sure have leveled some rather amazing accusations my way, and those accusations come far closer to acts of condemnation, judgment, and are just a wee bit more hateful in tone, than anything I have typewritten toward yourself. The proof of that is in our posts.

Stand by your lies, if you must. That too is your problem. I'm finished making it mine.

January 26, 2010 at 4:25 a.m.

This is the last time I respond to this very sick man's posts. If he is a "self-avowed Christian", then I'm Joan of Arc. I have never felt nor implied I'm morally superior to anyone, I quote the Word of God sometimes or mention Him which he and others seem to get into a rage over-I wonder why? Others talk their science-religion or whatever-religion and no one objects. I have never pretended to be someone I'm not, either to friends, strangers or family. But this sick, two-faced man does. He represents himself to his community here in Chattanooga as an upstanding "Christian" and to his clients as? I wonder if his "loving" wife knows who he really is. I believe in the entire Word of God, he picks out what to believe and what to discard, as well as lying to everyone on this post and in his posts. This is what really twisted people do in order to discredit true Christianity. These are the kind of people here I'm speaking of who love to trash us. His posts here and all over the internet ( a public forum btw), show a self-righteous, arrogant gay, who loves to 'advise' young gay/bi-sexual men and others on all kinds of subjects. He fancies himself an expert on everything, while he rails at me, accusing me of thinking I'm superior and calling me a liar. I had to edit this because of some of the language on this site he frequents. It is so vile, I wouldn't repeat it to my closest friend. The subject matter is disgusting and they love to view 'photos' and videos, which alpie then reviews, as he is the resident 'expert'.

<p>Reddit.com (Subject:"Basically, it's this: I'm gay. Or bi, leaning towards gay, if you really want to define it. I'm with a guy, and yeah I'm fairly happy, but I have some problems..") This is a young, very confused guy writing: (most words have to be edited due to explicit, nasty language)

alprova:
Take it from someone who is a little older than you are and who has been around the block a few times. You are free to live as you see fit. You are by all definitions an adult. If you retreat now to preserve relationships and ties with others who would view you in negative ways for what you know for sure that you are, then you will only face a lifetime of regret later on. Your course is your own, and it is always wrong for others to attempt to dictate your life according to their values. Contrary to popular belief, lifetime friendships are rare... So don't appease others if it makes you miserable at the same time. Do what makes you happy and those who do care about you will always be there in the end, or find their way back into your life if they take a hiatus".

Subject on reddit.com.....Type Gay into Google and see...what comes up... alprova : 7 months ago Well I'll be jiggered...isn't that special?

January 26, 2010 at 10:06 a.m.

cont'd: This is not a Christian or Christianity here. Go check out places like San Fran, LA, etc. This is nothing new folks. But here in the South they have to work more deviously, and they do, especially amongst the young. Your youngsters are so susceptible and gullible. Beware of the subterfuge and the words they use to discredit those of us who know their game only too well. If this isn't pure agenda, then I will recant and call myself paranoid. I hate to be right on these things, I wish we all lived in FairyLand. But we don't. Who is going to speak up here?

January 26, 2010 at 10:07 a.m.
alprova said...

Mr Canary, I assure you that the person you refer to on Reddit using the name "alprova" is not myself.

While I am a member of the Reddit website, and mentioned that fact in here a few weeks back, I could not obtain the identity "alprova." It was already taken when I signed up for the site about four months ago.

Add an "N" to that nic and you will find the few comments that I have absolutely written on Reddit and that I would not be ashamed for anyone at all to read.

I wonder, now that you have discovered that you have truly went overboard and have made another fine boo-boo, are you going to stand by it, or are you going to retract and apologize?

See if I hold my breath.

January 26, 2010 at 12:53 p.m.

Turn blue. Anyone who would even patronize that perverted website and participate in it, with its foul, foul talk, and call themselves a "Christian"? We don't believe it. I rest my case re: all the other lies and subterfuge coming from such a one.

January 26, 2010 at 1:05 p.m.
SavartiTN said...

If canary represents what being Christian is all about then I am proclaiming that I am definitely not a Christian.

Whatever happened to productive discussions here? Why is it nowadays everyone seems to think that they can just be so mean? It is the end of civility. I wonder if the South is ready for that since Southerners have always taken pride in having good manners.

As such, I don't see that America will ever be able to resolve any of the overwhelming problems that we all face. People are either slinging mud or trying to fend it off being hit by it. Sad. Very sad.

January 26, 2010 at 2:47 p.m.
alprova said...

Canary opined with: "Turn blue."

Yep...that's what I expected.

"We don't believe it."

Oh...I see that you suffer from multiple personalities as well.

January 26, 2010 at 5:56 p.m.

No one mistook you for a Christian Savarti, don't worry. How laughable, civil discussion from you and your ilk?? You criticize Christians and look at what filth you guys wallow in. What hypocrites.

I don't know what "South" here you're talking about, but Chattanooga is no Southern haven of civility. It does seem to be a nest of rabid Leftists and the rudest, sickest people we've (we, btw, is family, friends and some of the posters on this site) had the 'pleasure' of being around.

And they think LA and New York City are bad. Those cities contain folks who are paragons of virtue compared to what I've encountered here. This is definitely not the South many of us grew up in. If all you southern perverts know how to do is hide your perversions, abuse children and animals sexually and physically, live phony lives and pretend you're 'nice' when it's obvious you're anything but, well, keep your sick environment. Wallow in your pig filth and enjoy, 'Elitists'! Some dare to denigrate rednecks and mountain people here on these posts. What an irony. Those folks are kings and queens compared to the Liars and Perverts Chattanooga (and Signal Mountain are full of). What goes around, comes around and I have no doubt you fellows will pay dearly, sooner or later.

January 26, 2010 at 9:39 p.m.
alprova said...

Canary, I doubt that anyone could read your posts offered in this forum over the past two to three days and not come to the conclusion that you are off your rocker, or off your medication.

You have gone from being a somewhat decent person with conservative values to posting content that would be similar in nature to that of a spree murderer, just prior to separating from reality altogether.

I could not care less what you think of me, because I've spent time debating people in online forums for most of the past two decades and my skin is an inch thick.

So don't think that you have inflicted any pain as a result of your attempt to tear me down publicly for calling you on the carpet. Your current demeanor and responses are typical of people who cannot deal with criticism, being challenged, and who are woefully entrenched in their beliefs, as ill born as they may be.

Until two days ago, I had no idea that you considered yourself to be religious. 48 hours after your declaration, I find your claims to be without merit whatsoever. No person that I know who loves the Lord, would begin to address people in the manner that you have chosen to do so.

But that's all beside the point. It has no bearing on a thing being discussed despite your choice to add it to the mix.

People are going to disagree when it comes to expressing opinions. People are going to make mistakes when they express what they believe to be true and correct. Most people, when they are corrected, will make apologies and admit their errors. There are some people unfortunately, for one reason or another, who would never in a million years admit to their errors.

Clearly, you fit into the latter category.

The bottom line to all of this is simple. Nothing discussed in this forum is going to change the world, nor are any one of us any better than another. We're all people with opinions and beliefs.

You're taking and making it all personal when it doesn't have to be. If you decide to keep going down that road, I think your going to find yourself persona non grata faster than a Corvette can reach 60 mph.

No one is attacking you because of your religious beliefs. You are being challenged because you're acting like a gigantic jerk and there's only so much of that kind of behavior that people will put up with.

If you want to be believed to be a person with religious values, how about acting like someone who does in the future. Right now, you're acting like a complete kook.

January 27, 2010 at 12:58 a.m.
rolando said...

non illegitimus carborundum, canary. Don't let the bastards wear you down.

January 27, 2010 at 6:19 a.m.

Fear not, Rolando. Creeps such as the above don't wear me down. I could spend more of my precious time refuting and disproving everything he said above, but he and the others aren't worth it. He is one Great Pretender and Liar, it's been obvious to many of us for awhile. And now he's back in full force. I am very familiar with his 'kind' and their 'nice soft words', guaranteed to deceive. Others, but not myself.

They sound so reasonable, but are not. You and I (and others) definitely know the bilge and hatred that has been directed at us on this site, and at Christianity. I do not need to defend others or myself. I, as a citizen and one of the public, do have the right to express my opinions and to refute whatever I believe is untrue or see as an attack against those who speak the truth. Those guys do it all the time themselves, while denying us the same. Their own words convict them.

Liars and deceivers hate that and continue to deflect and trash those of us who do stand up. We don't have to 'prove' that either. Their posts are proof enough. Of course their hide is thick. They are cold, empty vessels of darkness.

No veiled threats and insinuations about murder sprees will work either. The real threat to us and to our society is the pervert(s) typing above, living a lie in their communities and attempting to shut up any of us who expose their disgusting hypocrisy/perversions. I make no apologies for harsh words that are true and will never regret saying what others think, yet are too cowardly to say so themselves. They do not hold our lives in their hands, nor our souls.

January 27, 2010 at 9:55 a.m.
BobMKE said...

The Massachusetts Miracle

January 27, 2010 at 7:58 p.m.
rolando said...

Great prose, canary. "...cold, empty vessels of darkness." I must remember that one.


Good cite, BobMKE. We got the miracle...

January 27, 2010 at 10:18 p.m.
SavartiTN said...
<p>@canary...exactly what do you mean "you and your ilk?" And if you are referring to ilk as in kind, then just exactly what "kind" of person do you think I am since you cannot expect a civil discussion from me?

Quite frankly, the rudest people that I have ever met were from Boston and Las Vegas. Some from New York. Over all, I give the people in the Great State of Tennessee (and especially Chattanooga) for making this an generally pleasant place to live...with a couple of exceptions of course.

And, while we would be thrilled to have you continue to spew your venom on our local message boards, we would, ever so nicely and with a smile on our faces, to invite you to remove your sour self from our usually congenial city if the perverts bother you so much. Funny, I don't seem to run into the perverts like you do. Maybe you could try changing your location...like to Boston. You would fit in well there.

January 27, 2010 at 11:41 p.m.
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