published Saturday, June 5th, 2010

The Joker

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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moonpie said...

Whoa!

Methinks we're going to see a lovefest over this one....

June 5, 2010 at 12:17 a.m.
anonymight said...

This will be my last post. The broken record that is Clay Bennett is turning me into a broken record.

There is more to life than criticism.

What would Clay have us Tea Party sympathizers do - move to a ghetto? We are fellow citizens. We deserve the respect that all humans deserve. Evidently there isn't any room for middle class discontent in Clay's worldview.

Clay continually portrays us as evil, racist buffoons. It isn't funny anymore. So let this site become an echo chamber and a cheerleading section for a man who draws cartoons for a living.

This is not to say that I am without fault. I've typed things that are insensitive and not terribly constructive. But I won't any longer. I will no longer support with my attention a cartoon series that uses disrespect as a hammer and counsels the rest of us to do the same.

June 5, 2010 at 12:33 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Extreme left and extreme right? Notice that right is working (or was), and left is just sitting there.

June 5, 2010 at 12:34 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Our Presidewnt is protecting the oil spill from Louisiana instead of protecting Louisana from the spill by bureaucratic stalling on berms to protect the coast.

Sarah Palin could do better than that.

June 5, 2010 at 12:46 a.m.
tyler said...

so where were you tea partiers when Bush was spending 7,000,000,000 of your tax dollars on an illegal war in Iraq?

Oh, and I love how you tea partiers hate the government, until some private company screws up and completely lays waste to our ocean, and then...suddenly...WHERE'S THE GOVERNMENT??? WHAT ARE THEY DOING? I though BP was supposed to be cleaning this up. What do you want Obama to do? Go down there and swim in it. You guys are retarded.

June 5, 2010 at 2:22 a.m.

There wasn't a Tea Party then Tyler, there was a libertarian constitutional conservative movement under Ron Paul part of his revolution. Idiots got a hold of his movement and turned it into the cluster of idiots that it is now. They were there protesting Bush's spending as well as the reserve and every other unconstitutional thing our government continues to do.

June 5, 2010 at 2:36 a.m.
tyler said...

I don't understand this tea party thing anyway, you know, since taxes are the lowest they've been since the 50's!!

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2010-05-10-taxes_N.htm

June 5, 2010 at 3:32 a.m.
patrickd said...

quote from anonymight "So let this site become an echo chamber and a cheerleading section for a man who draws cartoons for a living."

That man who draws cartoons for a living has a Pulitzer prize for doing so.

June 5, 2010 at 3:37 a.m.
nucanuck said...

While the Tea Party may evolve into something more serious,they now represent "throw the bums out" and not much more. In an economic down cycle, discontent is more prevalent. The Tea Party represents that discontent in different ways for different people,but by-and-large does not represent solutions,only anger and frustration.

June 5, 2010 at 6:14 a.m.
rolando said...

As you are evidently unaware, nucanuck [living in Canada as you do], the purpose of the American electorate is NOT to determine goals and procedures but to vote for those who DO that according to our wishes. And to vote out those who do NOT follow our wishes...exactly what is happening today.

Hurts, does it? That's exactly what we, the electorate, intend and are doing. Congress snubs its nose at us at its peril, as it is discovering.

June 5, 2010 at 6:39 a.m.
rolando said...

tyler said, "...taxes are the lowest they've been since the 50's!!"

That all ends this year, tyler.

I cannot wait for you to find out that you are enjoying BUSH'S tax cut not Dear Leader's...and it is due to expire this year. LOL

Wait until you see what your Dear Leader has in mind for you NEXT year. LOL Oh...you don't pay taxes now and won't next year either. Never mind.

June 5, 2010 at 6:43 a.m.
rolando said...

Anonymight -- Please remember...

The only thing evil needs to win is for good men to remain silent. [Author unrecalled]

Please don't leave. You are not alone here and one man's departure lessens us all. [Again, author unrecalled...Joyce, perhaps.]

June 5, 2010 at 6:52 a.m.
rolando said...

For patrickd -- There are many other Pulitzer winning cartoonists out there equally talented...some of them multiple Pulitzer winners [which is not to belittle Bennett's accomplishment].

June 5, 2010 at 6:53 a.m.
nucanuck said...

rolando,voting out incumbants can and should be a good thing,if and when we have good candidates running against them. Replacing incumbants with incompetants becomes the risk when you simply vote against,instead of for.

rolando,do you have a problem with Canada or those who live there? You make frequent reference to where I now live as though it is a disqualification for an opinion.

By the way,I am writing this from zip code 37404.

June 5, 2010 at 6:58 a.m.
EaTn said...

The Tea Party will either become a viable stand-alone party or a thorn in the side of the GOP. Roughly twenty five percent of the voters identify with the movement and are mostly Republicans or Independents. The time is ripe for a third party, but they will have to develop into a party with a cause instead of a party of discontent.

June 5, 2010 at 7:02 a.m.
sandyonsignal said...

The number who joined the TeaParty is the same number of people who left the GOP. Many called themselves independents but if you look at their voting record, you would find a solid GOP pattern.

Interesting to see the comments of those who can't stand the criticism of the Tea Party. This group who calls Obama every name in the book: a communist, fascist, socialist, dictator, etc.. can't tolerate criticism of themselves. It makes no sense to state Obama is a Nazi and then equate him with Stalin. Hitler killed the communist first. But hey, they don't let history or economics get in the way of a good lie.

buh, bye, auf wiedersehen, farewell... anomymight. Perhaps, you can take a few more with you.

June 5, 2010 at 8:02 a.m.
alprova said...

Nucanuck wrote: "By the way,I am writing this from zip code 37404."


I was sure he had that wrong.

June 5, 2010 at 8:17 a.m.
dougmusn said...

For Rolando (6:52), here's some info on your first quote: * All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. o This is probably the most quoted statement attributed to Burke [Edmund Burke, member of Parliament, England 1790's], and an extraordinary number of variants of it exist, but all without any definite original source. These very extensively used "quotations" may be based on a paraphrase of some of Burke's ideas, but he is not known to have ever declared them in such a manner in any of his writings. It may have been adapted from these lines of Burke's in his Thoughts on the Cause of Present Discontents (1770): "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."

Burke's alleged quote bears a striking resemblance to the narrated theme of Sergei Bondarchuk's Soviet film adaptation of Leo Tolstoy's book "War and Peace", in which the narrator declares "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing", although since the original is in Russian various translations to English are possible.


Regarding Clay Bennett: the job of a political cartoonist is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable, to provoke discussion and thought. With or without his [well deserved] Pulitzer, Mr. Bennett does all this.

June 5, 2010 at 8:40 a.m.
alprova said...

Anonymight wrote: "This will be my last post. The broken record that is Clay Bennett is turning me into a broken record.

There is more to life than criticism."


It won't be your last post, and it shouldn't be. We all have our beliefs and political ideals.


"What would Clay have us Tea Party sympathizers do - move to a ghetto? We are fellow citizens. We deserve the respect that all humans deserve. Evidently there isn't any room for middle class discontent in Clay's worldview."


Respect is never deserved just because a group is formed to demonstrate. Respect is earned when respect is demonstrated while a group of demonstrators, demonstrate.


"Clay continually portrays us as evil, racist buffoons. It isn't funny anymore. So let this site become an echo chamber and a cheerleading section for a man who draws cartoons for a living."


Nothing up there expresses any opinion that Tea-Partiers are racist. But, that shoe does fit so many who identify themselves as Tea-Partiers.

It's very hard to shake any perceptions to the contrary, when you have buffoons like Rand Paul opening his mouth on national television, calling for the redacting of civil rights laws that would then allow private enterprises to serve only those they deem welcome to be served in their establishments.


"This is not to say that I am without fault. I've typed things that are insensitive and not terribly constructive. But I won't any longer. I will no longer support with my attention a cartoon series that uses disrespect as a hammer and counsels the rest of us to do the same."


Ah...yes. As we know, Tea-Partiers have been a shining example of people who have demonstrated total and unwavering respect for others, including our current President.

Tyler, who joined us today, raises the most profound point to date on that which seems to divide so many of us.

Tea-Partiers seem so eager to lay all of this nation's ills on the backs of our current administration, forgetting always that this nation's financial woes began snowballing long before President Obama arrived on the scene.

I find it very hard to respect any group of people who find it so easy to disregard ALL of the factors that have brought this nation to another set of crossroads, and who never criticize those who are truly responsible for it.

June 5, 2010 at 8:52 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

"Nothing up there expresses any opinion that Tea-Partiers are racist. But, that shoe does fit so many who identify themselves as Tea-Partiers."

I will accept that statement as long as you acknowledge that many democrats voted for Obama because they are racists as well. Simply because he is black, or half black anyway.

June 5, 2010 at 9:07 a.m.
EaTn said...

nurse- some democrats did vote for Obama because he was black just like some republicans voted for McCain because he wasn't, but in general I don't believe race was as major factor in that election as hope for change was. Obama has partially delivered but politics and circumstances have dampened much of the hope.

June 5, 2010 at 9:35 a.m.
samplegirl said...

Freeloaders who don't want to pay texes but want all the benifits. They are largely stupid people but smart enough to know they can't just outright call Obama a N****r. So they draw silly posters instead. Racism is their driving force....Sanctimonious, anti-government, plutocratic, gun totin, homophobes. Did I forget narcissistic.

June 5, 2010 at 9:41 a.m.
alprova said...

Nurse wrote: "I will accept that statement as long as you acknowledge that many democrats voted for Obama because they are racists as well. Simply because he is black, or half black anyway."

You need not accept or reject my statement. The facts are what they are.

The depiction up above is a take on Heath Ledger's character, "The Joker," from the movie, The Dark Knight. The Obama spin-off was first used politically and depicted on signs being carried by Tea-Partiers in Washington D.C., last summer during their FIRST demonstration.

Although some people, most likely those who had never seen the movie, thought that painting a white face on Obama was racist in nature, doing so wasn't racially motivated at all. Instead, it was a statement by Tea-Partiers that they considered President Obama to be a "joke" or the "Joker."

Clay, who apparently HAS seen the movie, appropriately depicts Tea-Partiers, who consider the President to be a "joker," as "jokers" themselves.

I'm rather surprised that I am having to explain this to people who may or may not be Tea-Partiers. I'm in complete awe, because I am sitting here defending unfounded charges of racism with people who defend Tea-Partiers, who also think that the above cartoon depicts racism, and are alleging racism is what led to our current President being elected into office.

If you want any admission that it is highly likely that African-Americans most likely voted for Obama, you've got it. That's no secret. But that's not the end of the story, now is it? 20% of the population in this nation did not propel him into the White House.

53% of this nation's African-American, Asian-American, Hispanic-American, Middle Eastern-American, European-American, and yes...even lily white Caucasian-American folks like myself, cast our votes for the man too.

This may be a bitter pill to swallow, but to ponder for so much as a moment, that our African-American President is only in office because African-Americans voted for him, is not an only unfounded statistic, it is only only pondered by those seeking to justify their own proclivities in wanting to keep racism alive and well.

So...if racism really isn't on the minds of many Tea-Partiers, then why am I having to explain a completely non-racially motivated cartoon to people who claim that they are not racists, and instead claim that our President was elected by a bunch of racists?

Is this all a joke, or are Tea-Partiers fast becoming the butt end of their own jokes?

June 5, 2010 at 11:06 a.m.
HiDef said...

Very well said, alprova.

June 5, 2010 at 11:13 a.m.
OllieH said...

As some of you may know, I am a long-time fan of editorial cartooning. I followed Clay's work before he moved to Chattanooga, and was absolutely delighted when he chose to come draw for the Times Free Press.

My delight in having him here only increases with every cartoon.

To give the cartoonist his due, I'd like to say something about the Pulitzer Prize for Editorial Cartooning. Rolando is right, there are many cartoonists out there working who have a Pulitzer to their credit. But maybe not as many as he might think. After some quick research, I've found that there are only 22 Pulitzer Prize cartoonists drawing today.

Twenty-two people in a country of 300 million. That's a pretty elite group, if you ask me. And we in Chattanooga can boast that we have one of those 22 drawing cartoons for us.

Rolando is also right that there are editorial cartoonists out there who have won multiple Pulitzers. That too, may be less than you think. There are currently 5 cartoonists working that have two Pulitzers. I fully expect that Clay will join their ranks one day soon.

Until he does, Clay has one distinction in Pulitzer Prize history that no other editorial cartoonist (living or dead) can claim- he has been a nominated finalist for the award more than any of them.

Since 1999, Clay Bennett has been one of the three finalists considered for the Prize an astounding 6 times. It's not something that makes it into many write-ups (in fact, it's not even mentioned in his bio on this site), but I read a story about the feat when he was last a finalist for the prize in 2008.

http://tinyurl.com/23rorne

All that being said, the strength of an editorial cartoonist isn't determined by the number of plaques and citations on his office wall. It's established by the inventiveness of his ideas, his skill as an artist, and the passion of his views. By that criteria, too, Clay Bennett would undoubtedly be judged as one of the very best of the best in the field of editorial cartooning.

June 5, 2010 at 11:28 a.m.
Oz said...

tyler said....so where were you tea partiers when Bush was spending 7,000,000,000 of your tax dollars on an illegal war in Iraq?

Two wrongs don't make a right. The bail out's of Wall Street and Detroit were gas on the fire. The Stimulus bill and Healthcare bill were nuclear weapons. The United States cannot sustain this kind of debt.

If it were possible to spend our way out of a recession every bankruptcy court would have a loan officer instead of a judge.

Both parties have ignored the debt.

June 5, 2010 at 11:38 a.m.
Oz said...

Here is the real Joker artist and he is not a member of the Tea Party. He is a Democrat and Dennis Kucinich supporter from Chicago.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/08/obama-joker-artist.html

June 5, 2010 at 11:44 a.m.
alprova said...

AndrewLohr wrote: "Our Presidewnt is protecting the oil spill from Louisiana instead of protecting Louisana from the spill by bureaucratic stalling on berms to protect the coast."


No one is stopping Louisiana from doing a thing to protect their coastal shorelines. All the Grandstanding by Bobby Jindal is a complete farce. He just wants the Federal Government to undertake an almost impossible task -- a task that would accomplish nothing at all, the minute that the first tropical storm makes it's way up the Gulf.

The man has two faces. When President Obama declared that off-shore drilling would be halted for six months pending a complete review and massive inspections, Jindal wrote a letter to the White House requesting that deepwater drilling be allowed to continue. Jindal claimed that the moratorium could cost Louisianans up to 20,000 jobs.


"Sarah Palin could do better than that."


Sarah Palin would resign the minute that the heat is turned up on the frying pan, then would head for her home in Wasilla, immediately hire a crew to erect a heated moat, so that it would not freeze during winter, and would surround that with 30 foot concrete walls and twelve feet of rounded strands of barbed wire on top of it.

June 5, 2010 at 11:54 a.m.
JohnnyRingo said...

I've yet to meet a T-Party member that likes to have a mirror held before them.

They stand on the absolute furthest extremes of American politics, phrasing utterences about being "center right". When I ask one of these common sense, middle of the road patriots which bum they want to "throw out" for standing too far to their right, I get a blank stare.

On the rare occasion they elect a member supported candidate, they hold him so far out on the right wing of the politcal machine as to make him unable to operate the controls.

The T-Party is indeed the frightening spectre of extremism that rallies for a return to an America that never existed.

June 5, 2010 at 12:12 p.m.
nucanuck said...

No alprova,37404 wasn't a mistake. It's on Missionary Ridge.

June 5, 2010 at 12:20 p.m.
alprova said...

Oz wrote: "If it were possible to spend our way out of a recession every bankruptcy court would have a loan officer instead of a judge."


I gotta hand it to you. That was an EXCELLENT sentence and very effective in driving home your point.

However, smarter people than you and I were behind the decisions that were made to bail out certain private enterprises. The consequences, had the Government not stepped in, would have devastated so many people in this nation. Surely you understand that.

I lost a bundle when Wall Street foundered. So did most all people who had retirement savings invested. It's still scary, but I am in far better shape than I was two years ago. I am weathering the storm and I hold my breath each and every day.

Had Washington not stepped in and salvaged what they could, rather than to have simply let the chips fall where they may, it would have wiped out the investments of millions in this country, most of whom were in no position to afford to lose those investments.

GM is proving that they were worth saving. Their sales are definitely way up. Had they been allowed to go under, how many more in this nation would have been added to the unemployment rolls? Granted, it would not have affected me personally, but that downward spiral had to be stopped somehow, even if it was not for all Americans.

Things are getting better, despite the protestations of so many who want this administration to fail miserably. And with that will come with increased revenue into the Government. The focus should not be on what has been spent. The focus should be in paying back what has been spent with any increase in revenue.

It's rather silly to imagine that there is any man or woman out there, who can assume the Presidency, wave a magic wand, and make everything all better overnight.

Patience is a virtue, and one that it seems that not many people are gifted with these days.

June 5, 2010 at 12:20 p.m.
alprova said...

Nucanuck wrote: "No alprova,37404 wasn't a mistake. It's on Missionary Ridge."

You misunderstood what I was saying. I was sure that Rolando was wrong in his assertion that you lived in Canada. I KNEW you were local to the area.

June 5, 2010 at 12:22 p.m.
JohnnyRingo said...

I'm astounded that Rolando thinks the average working man saw a penny of the Buxh era tax cuts. It'll be hard to miss what never existed, and Republicans even admitted the top-down tax cuts were meant to stimulate hiring by the wealthy (didn't work).

Back then, Sean Hannity loved to crow to Colmes that "93 million Americans will receive a $1500 tax cut" purposely leaving out the important word "average". It's now known that his own share of the cut equaled $300,000 per year. It's also know known how many jobs were created by Hannity and Rolando's windfall.

I'm sure Rolando and Sean will sorely miss that break, but don't expect me to stand there handing out tissues.

June 5, 2010 at 1:10 p.m.
toonfan said...

anonymight writes, "This will be my last post. The broken record that is Clay Bennett is turning me into a broken record. There is more to life than criticism."


Let me say that I really hope that anonymight reconsiders his pledge to discontinue his participation in these daily debates.

I would urge him to look at the bigger cartooning picture, and would ask, why abandon these discussions over an objection to cartoons on a topic that receives such a small percentage of the artist's attention?

I'll grant you, Clay has drawn a few cartoons about the Tea Party lately. Looking back, I found that 4 of his past 15 cartoons have been related to the Tea Party in some way. If you go back further, however, the numbers fall off dramatically.

Sure, 4 of his 15 cartoons on the tea party over the past three weeks might seem high, but if you look back at the ten weeks that preceded that (some 50 cartoons) you'll only find 4 more about the tea party. That works out to be less than 1 in 10.

If you look through Bennett's entire 2010 archive -107 cartoons, so far- he has 11 devoted to the tea party. Go back another 100 cartoons, and you'll find only 3.

Perhaps the increased attention can be attributed to the Tea Party itself. Certainly, the cartoons seem to pop up during periods of increased influence or activity by the Tea Party activists. That's how the news goes- in ebbs and flows.

Our more accurately put: issues are like pimples.

Think about it- when you first see a pimple, it's ALL you can see. It may be relatively small in the grand scheme of things, but when you look into the mirror, your attention gravitates toward it.

With a little time and attention, however, the pimple either goes away or you get used to seeing it, so it doesn't stand out quite so much. In other words, that blemish has now become a normal feature in the national complexion.

Clay obviously noticed the pimple that is the Tea Party long ago. And for long periods of time he has either gotten used to it, or it's gotten better. Apparently that pimple has flared up and maybe it's even gotten a little sore lately (at least to Clay). And when that happens, it becomes the center of attention once again.

Pimples are really hard to ignore. And even though you know that if you keep it clean, and don't pick at it, the chances of it going away is much greater, it's really, REALLY, hard not to just POP IT!

Unfortunately, that usually just guarantees that the pimple will be around for a long time to come.

June 5, 2010 at 1:11 p.m.
alprova said...

Oz wrote: "If it were possible to spend our way out of a recession every bankruptcy court would have a loan officer instead of a judge."

Some things are so good, they deserve a second response.

I'm reluctant to share this, because some people have a funny way of throwing things back in people's faces sometimes, but...that's okay.

Back in 1977, I lost my first wife and a son in a very bad car accident. To keep it short and simple, let's just say that the related costs of giving them a proper burial, as well as the loss of my wife's income, pretty much devastated my finances to the point that a year later, I filed for bankruptcy.

Shortly after filing, a loan officer from the bank that I do business with to this day, came to my house. He told me that I had every right to ask him to leave, but hoped that we could talk. I invited him in. The bank held the mortgage on our home.

Long story short, an hour later, the man offered to loan me whatever I needed to consolidate my debts into one payment, separate from the mortgage. The next day, we went over all my debts, and he cut me a check to pay them off.

I paid off that debt and so many more over the past 3.5 decades, due to his kindness and caring for someone who was in a very tight spot at the moment. Of course, it lessened a headache that he was facing as well. But he received far more than I did from the gamble he took on me.

So, I did borrow money at one time to avoid bankruptcy, and maybe if financial institutions spent more time working with people who are experiencing financial difficulties, rather than to treat them like scum, bankruptcy courts would cease to exist.

There are no absolutes to everything. There are indeed times when it makes perfect sense to borrow funds to weather lapses in revenue or while in a recession. I've done it many times in my life, and for all the right reasons.

Our Government did this for all the right reasons too. Yes...it's scary. Yes...it may be a risk. But how many people really believe that the better alternative would have been to allow the vast majority of our banks to fail or to have allowed Detroit to go completely under?

Whether or not one is personally affected by any funds spent, we are all in this together as a nation, and despite all the hoopla by the Tea-Partiers, the United States of America is not going to be filing bankruptcy anytime soon.

June 5, 2010 at 1:24 p.m.
alprova said...

Juhnny Ringo wrote: "I'm sure Rolando and Sean will sorely miss that break, but don't expect me to stand there handing out tissues."


Rolando isn't going to be any more affected by any changes to the tax rates this year, than he has been for his entire working life, which always makes me laugh when he writes such nonsense.

He's retired and draws a pension check from the Government. And unless he's got a few million rolling around in the stock markets, he's not breaking six figures on those earnings either.

If anyone thinks for one second that the President, much less any current politician, is going to sit still and allow the 15% tax bracket to be redacted, and impose any increase in the taxes of anyone making less than middle six figure incomes, then they are woefully going to be disappointed.

There isn't a Republican that will allow it to happen either. They know that there are not enough top income earners to keep them in office, but they do tend to write larger campaign donation checks. So they are scrambling like chickens with their heads cut off, trying desperately to figure out just who they are going to appease and appeal to.

Republicans sure have it tough these days. I almost....almost...feel sorry for them.

June 5, 2010 at 1:40 p.m.
Oz said...

alprova...debt consolidation into one payment less than the total sum of payments is one thing. We have all done it at one time or another. However, I don't think you consolidated your debt and keep running it up on a daily basis with no end in sight?

June 5, 2010 at 1:54 p.m.
tyler said...

I really do sympathize with the tea partiers. I really don't think they're racists, or out to show hate to any particular ideology or group of people. But by and large they watch Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity tell them every day what an awful job Obama's doing, without considering that these people are getting paid to do so, and would be yelling leftist rhetoric if they were offered even a little bit more money for doing so. Look at Glenn Beck's program before it hit Fox News. His program on Healine New Network (Owned by CNN) was vastly different. While he depicted himself as a libertarian and an isolationist, he wasn't NEARLY as inflammatory and full of conservative rhetoric that he is on the Fox New program he has. It was a shocking change, especially for my father and stepmother, who considered themselves middle-of-the-road average joes. They had to stop watching him when he moved over to Fox News. Apparently they thought he "lost his mind" during the transistion. Or started hitting the bottle again. I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about. A couple days ago on Sean Hannity's show, he and Charles Krauthammer were bellowing about how awful Obama was for not being down in Louisiana at that moment, talking to small business owners. Hannity had Bush's former press secretary on the show, who asked Sean, "You know, if he went down there and on camera talked and listened and shook the hands of several small business owners, would that satisfy you two?"....Hannity and Krauthammer looked at each other for a split second with a smirk....and Sean mumbled under his breath, with a sly grin, to the effect of "well...he SHOULD be down there blah blah blah."

I just want people to realize these conservative people in the media are out make a buck. Just like Michael Moore and Bill Maher and Rachel Maddow are out to make a buck off left-leaning people like me.

Seriously question everyone you hear an opinion from, especially if they seem to be on your side of the political spectrum. Remember: we live in a capitalist country, WHICH IS GREAT, but......someone is TRYING TO SELL SELL...you something.

June 5, 2010 at 4:08 p.m.
rolando said...

Which is one reason we are voting them out, tyler. They are all much too much corrupted into the system. A turnover of 1/3 every two years...leaving only those each time who vote the way their constituents want them to vote. That's the goal...take back OUR government.

June 5, 2010 at 4:40 p.m.
rolando said...

So, alpo, now you not only detest military retirees because they draw their retirement pittance, but you also state your hate for all those other retirees who draw Social Security. You consider THEM to be a drain on the taxpayers and a detriment to society and the economy too. Your heart is a burnt-out coal...coal ash, in other words.

With nary a thought that both of those groups you detest paid into their retirement fund for decades. That is their money they are drawing out...money earned and forcefully taken from them that the government owes back to them...with compound interest.

It would then follow that you also detest all those workers who paid into retirement programs that were also supported by their employers...workers under the UAW, AFL/CIO, etc et al come to mind, to say nothing of payments made into THEIR Social Security System by their employers. After all, the money they draw out comes from the workers -- just as military retirees and Social Security recipients draw THEIR money from the workers.

Non-workers -- i.e., non-taxpayers -- don't pay a cent into any retirement system...not even Social Security...yet they will draw every cent they can from the systems others support, always crying for more bread and circuses...later in life, if you live that long, you too will draw some sort of government largess, no doubt, crying that it is YOURS and you earned it.

You are the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.

So don't unload your hate and envy on those who paid their dues, alpo. Instead, examine your own Left-Prog soul...the kind of soul that gives nothing, neither time nor money, to any local charity.

June 5, 2010 at 5:02 p.m.
rolando said...

So, nucanuck, you are now saying you lied about the wonderful Canadian home, relatives, weather, crime-free environment you bragged up and it was all a bunch of hooey? How Left-Prog of you...or are you one of those dual-citizen types who owe loyalty to neither country and no one? Do you vote both places? By absentee ballot, perhaps? A fence straddler?

Make a decision; go for one or the other. No man can serve two masters [another quote from somewhere. Sounds Biblical.]

June 5, 2010 at 5:10 p.m.
rolando said...

dougmusn -- thanks for the Russian tie-in...didn't know that one. Interesting coming from such a politically mixed up country.

Burke is well known as the "author" although I believe he did not want the "honor" since, as you pointed out, he really didn't say it.

June 5, 2010 at 5:18 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "So, alpo, now you not only detest military retirees because they draw their retirement pittance, but you also state your hate for all those other retirees who draw Social Security."


Wow. You're bearing false witness again, Sir. I wrote nothing of the sort.


"You consider THEM to be a drain on the taxpayers and a detriment to society and the economy too."


Ditto the above.


"With nary a thought that both of those groups you detest paid into their retirement fund for decades. That is their money they are drawing out...money earned and forcefully taken from them that the government owes back to them...with compound interest."


When did I say a doggone word about anyone who draws Social Security checks? My point was to offer that there is little to no chance that you make enough to be affected by any proposed changes to the tax rates, especially if the Bush tax cuts expire without intervention, which will not happen, at least not for those of us who earn or draw less than six figure incomes.


"It would then follow that you also detest all those workers who paid into retirement programs that were also supported by their employers...workers under the UAW, AFL/CIO, etc et al come to mind, to say nothing of payments made into THEIR Social Security System by their employers."


Nope and you're not going to be able to quote one word offered by myself that would prove that I have ever said such a thing.


"...if you live that long, you too will draw some sort of government largess, no doubt, crying that it is YOURS and you earned it."


I'm not about to be drawn into another debate with you, because you never fail to attribute words to me that have never been typed by myself, and I think people are sick of reading such exchanges.

Today, the topic was your unsubstantiated crap claim that we are going to be hit with a big tax increase, and it's pure bunk. And, you of all people, will not be hit with any tax increases. So why do you find it necessary to write stuff you know is not true?

June 5, 2010 at 6:11 p.m.
samplegirl said...

In Rolondos world the last administration left America with a balanced budget and no problems. Quit pretending Bush Cheney checked out of a hotel room and left it in same condition as when they arrived. After punching the walls out and breaking the furniture, throwing the T.V. out the window, burning the carpet, tapping the phones and stealing the towels then put it on Obama's credit card. Now you cry baby tea party people complain his crdit card is maxed out?? There was pleanty of damage and corruption from the last administration. We the people should remind people like Rolondo daily.

June 5, 2010 at 6:36 p.m.
alprova said...

Oz wrote: "alprova...debt consolidation into one payment less than the total sum of payments is one thing. We have all done it at one time or another. However, I don't think you consolidated your debt and keep running it up on a daily basis with no end in sight?"

Well...some do that too, but that's neither here nor there.

As bad as it may seem, when the dollar is adjusted for inflation, this nation was deeper in debt following WWII.

We may well surpass that this year.

For sure, we have to stop spending, and that has already begun. The banks are repaying TARP funds. GM is starting to recover and has repaid part of what they owed.

But the war that is costing this nation more than a Million dollars a day rages on. We read and hear very little about it, but make no mistake, it's still ongoing and it is costing this nation a fortune each and every day of the week.

Where is the outrage over that spending? Not one person in this nation, unless they own or are are employed by a military supplier, stands to gain a doggone thing from perpetuating those two wars that should have been over the minute that their leaders were toppled.

Until that spigot is turned off, I find it very hard to take rants about spending serious. The decisions to save our financial system and Detroit are paying off.

The war effort is not paying off at all, and it hasn't been for six years.

June 5, 2010 at 6:48 p.m.
SBrauer said...

Clay, you're so far left that you aren't even funny anymore.

June 5, 2010 at 8:10 p.m.
rolando said...

samplegirl decided to enter the fray saying something about me thinking Bush/Chaney were the best thing since sliced bread...or something like that.

Not bloody likely. I am quite ashamed to admit I voted for Bush a second time, forgetting my rule to never vote for a lame duck or a term-limited loser. They are all the same, whether it was the last Repub to sit in the Governor's seat or Bush. He and Bush -- and Dear Leader, of course -- are poster children for the case against term limits. The term-limited have nothing to lose so they do what they want, not what the country needs.

Vote for Dumbo again and you will see Woody Allen's words come true, "We should make Obama dictator for a short while...he could do so many wonderful things." Yeah, they'd really be wonderful, all right. He should stick to light comedy...oh wait...maybe he was. Never mind.


alpo rambled all over the place again, singing his "It wasn't me!" theme song and whining about how he "gets no respect."

His entire ramble was merely different ways of saying "I wrote nothing of the sort" and can be easily rebutted by replying, "Sure you did, alpo. Communication is not restricted to only words; implied meaning of those words are equally important."

If you hate A because he has B, alpo, and C also has B, then you hate C, too. And D who has B; and E who also has B. etc right on down the line. You might not admit it -- maybe you even refuse to recognize it -- but you do hate or envy them. Headshrink 201 mixed in with Logic 101.

Hoist on your own petard. [That would make a good quote.] Read and heed, al baby, read and heed.

June 5, 2010 at 9:43 p.m.
Oz said...

anonymight...don't leave. Just do like I did and quit subscribing to the paper.

They almost had me back a couple of months ago. They offered to put the weekend paper on my front porch. I was so close to signing up and then I remembered Clay. I could not stand the thought of contributing to his income. I respect his right to speak but the TFP does not want to give us a toon for the other side. So I am not going to support them.

I was a subscriber for 25 years and I'm doing fine without them.

June 5, 2010 at 11:03 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "alpo rambled all over the place again, singing his "It wasn't me!" theme song and whining about how he "gets no respect."


Clearly, it's becoming apparent that English is not your first language. You don't comprehend it very well.


"His entire ramble was merely different ways of saying "I wrote nothing of the sort" and can be easily rebutted by replying, "Sure you did, alpo. Communication is not restricted to only words; implied meaning of those words are equally important.".."


Any disdain I hold for you, which is strictly due to your consistently negative demeanor and unyielding hypocrisy when commenting in this forum, does not translate into my feeling the same about anyone else, as difficult as that may be for you to comprehend.

And try as you may, you're not going to succeed in wearing me down. I'm truly beginning to wonder if you like being cyber-spanked all the time.


"If you hate A because he has B, alpo, and C also has B, then you hate C, too. And D who has B; and E who also has B. etc right on down the line. You might not admit it -- maybe you even refuse to recognize it -- but you do hate or envy them. Headshrink 201 mixed in with Logic 101."


I hate no one. I have never expressed any sentiment that could be construed as hate for anyone, not even yourself. I have no respect for you, and that you have earned in spades through your refusal to stick to the truth about anything whenever you dip your toe into the water.

Telling someone that you must envy them is not only pathetically arrogant, it's a child's argument. "You're just jealous." (spoken in a little girl's voice -- her hands on her hips and with pouted lips)

Look...I get it. You can't stand your ground any time you type. And because you can't substantiate your misinformation, you choose to take and make everything personal. It's the common tactic taken by those who can't back up what they type.

And I'm sure that most people who do read our exchanges are keenly aware of the fact that you never even try to back up anything you claim to be fact.

Today, the fact is that no one, Republican or Democrat, is proposing to raise taxes on those who make less than low six figure incomes. Now either I am right or you are right. I can dig up a hundred articles that substantiate my factual assertion.

Can you dig up ONE article that quotes your assertion that President Obama, or any other politician, is proposing, much less stated, that they will be raising taxes on the middle and lower income classes?

You made the claim. Now back it up.

That's internet forum debate 101. You earn your degree after you go 90 days without having to taste your own shoe leather.

June 5, 2010 at 11:08 p.m.
Oz said...

alprova...GM repaid a portion of what they owe with TARP funds.

I love this spoof.

June 5, 2010 at 11:12 p.m.
alprova said...

Oz wrote: "I respect his right to speak but the TFP does not want to give us a toon for the other side. So I am not going to support them."

Oz...maybe it's something fairly recent, but for the last year or so, I have been buying the Free Press on weekdays. In the Editorial section of the paper, they dedicate an one to two pages to the right-wing points of view, and yes, I read them too.

I'm almost sure that right-leaning syndicated cartoons are on that page every day as well. In fact, I've seen more than one on some days.

June 5, 2010 at 11:19 p.m.
alprova said...

Oz wrote: "alprova...GM repaid a portion of what they owe with TARP funds."

Does it really matter? A payment is a payment. And to clarify exactly what happened, GM paid $2 Billion from their own accounts, then took $4.7 Billion from TARP funds being held in escrow that amounted to approximately $50.6 Billion.

In other words, GM has to date, only borrowed $4.7 Billion to clear the initial 6.7 Billion dollar loan off the books, which the Bush Administration gave them. It was a completely legal transaction because the escrow funds were there for GM to use at they deemed necessary to run their business.

They have left the balance of $45.3 Billion in TARP funds in escrow untouched.

So where exactly do they stand at the moment? Their stock tanked a year ago at 6 cents a share. Today, it's worth 52 cents a share. They currently have $193 Billion in immediate liquid assets.

They are a takeover target, because they have far too much cash on their books than the worth of their outstanding stock. But it's highly unlikely that anyone would attempt to take them over, for now anyway.

The point is, that GM, while still in trouble as far as the company's profitability stands at the moment, things are definitely not as dire as they were just 12 months ago. Their sales have got to improve or they will have no choice but to liquidate all assets, or they will be forced into it by someone who buys companies to sell off the pieces.


"I love this spoof." [link snipped]


I had not seen that one. I admit to laughing out loud about halfway through it. The voice impersonation was perfect.

Seriously though, we all need to root for GM to make it, even if the Government has taken a very risky gamble on them.

June 6, 2010 at 12:26 a.m.
TexasStar said...

Love the cartoon, simple, thought provoking. Tea Party or not, I have never seen a President have to endure the 24 multimedia hate fest (even his children) and distortions thrown at him. In past times of crisis, Americans have put aside their differences and banned together, the Great Depression, World Wars, even 9/11 brought a moment of unity. Certainly at least a momentary pause can be given - I wonder if all this would even be going on if Glen Beck and Rush were black? What if it was blacks banded together and had "Black Tea" Parties, just to quietly and peacefully talk about their concerns, would love to see the news coverage of that! Probably call out the National Guard. Fox news is owned by an AUSTRALIAN - how American is that? There needs to be some truth and less of the drama. I was invited to a Tea Party in Knoxville. I was told I "had" to go because death squads would becoming to my door and I would be told when to die. My response, don't answer the door. All the misinformation and no one is held accountable - that is not news or a party, it is just hate - poorly disguised at that.

June 6, 2010 at 12:36 a.m.
alprova said...

I don't know how many people will check back on this thread and read this, but I ran across a video posted on YouTube of a Tea-Party meeting held in Atlanta very recently, hosted by Herman Cain, who also hosts a talk show show on WSB-AM 750 during the evening hours.

I have always liked Herman Cain, who happens to be African-American and Conservative. He doesn't mince words, but he's polite to those who disagree with him, most of the time anyway.

The video depicts the last few minutes of the gathering, and one of the most inspirational moments ever recorded, at least in my opinion.

I know people think that I am totally one-sided on many things, but I truly attempt to be fair in my judgments.

I often beat up on Tea-Partiers, because there is so little out there to counter the loons that seem to find their way to the front of the line.

Had I known about this event, hosted by a Conservative that I have total respect for, I might have made an attempt to attend the event in person, just to keep myself on top of logical, alternative viewpoints.

Anyway, I urge anyone to click on the link to the final few moments of that meeting. You will be amazed and in total awe, as I was;

June 6, 2010 at 10:21 a.m.
sd said...

TexasStar wrote, "Tea Party or not, I have never seen a President have to endure the 24 multimedia hate fest (even his children) and distortions thrown at him."

I recall Bush W. getting the pinata treatment as well; in the age of 24-hour news channels it's par for the course, I think. Media oversaturation isn't doing our country any favors.


Nurse wrote, "I will accept that statement [al suggested many Tea-Partiers are racist] as long as you acknowledge that many democrats voted for Obama because they are racists as well. Simply because he is black, or half black anyway."

I remember reading that the "because he's black" vote and the so-called "Bubba vote" (whites voting for the white candidate because he is white) were relatively low, around 5%, and would cancel each other out. I regret I can't provide a source for that, so please consider it heresay.

HOWEVER, I can provide some exit poll statistics. 96% of black voters voted for Obama, and represented 13% of the electorate.

43% of white voters chose Obama.

40% of working-class white voters chose Obama (the same group comprises the aforementioned Bubba vote).

Source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15297.html

June 6, 2010 at 10:32 a.m.
SavartiTN said...

al, thanks for posting that Youtube link. It was incredible!

June 6, 2010 at 11:25 a.m.
JohnnyRingo said...

So Rolando, you're admitting you live a proletarian life on a fixed retirement income? You're sitting in the same life raft with the rest of us, but instead of doing your share of bailing water, you choose to complain how tough the owners of the Titanic have it during this disaster. As if that isn't bad enough, you look around at the huddled masses of economic survivors, and accuse the worst off crew members of being unworthy of salvation, demanding they be thrown overboard so you won't have to raise a finger to help them.

Your senseless mini-rant about how we'll cry over the sunsetted Buxh era tax cuts is akin to me fretting over the stratospheric cost of maintaining a Gulfstream jet. What is it that drives a barstool Republican to sit and cry over the woes of the champaign and caviar class in the private lounge? Do you know they complain amongst themselves how your your beer budget cuts into the space that could be stocked with more Dom Perignon?

I've been treading water for years, trying to keep my head above water while you've been consistantly posting nonsense about the virtues of supply-side economics, and now I find you have a seat right next to me in this leaky lifeboat. I submit you find merit in keeping the rest of us afloat, or at least rightly change your online persona from Thurston Howell III to the more appropriate Gilligan.

June 6, 2010 at 1:13 p.m.
TexasStar said...

sd - yes, Bush got bashed - but there is a grain a truth to the bashing. Where are the weapons of Mass Destruction? Cheney and Bush lifted many of the restrictions on off shore drilling, now the leak is Obama's fault? Bush was terrible at giving speeches, the constant deer in the headlights look, the stutter and stammer, come on, the best people can say is Obama uses a teleprompter ?- geez, Rush is legally deaf and sits in a booth reading scripts that his handlers have written, that takes talent. Bush couldn't even read a teleprompter - look at his reaction to 9/11, yikes! Would it make you happy if Obama but on the flak jacket, stood on a carrier ship and had a banner behind him "Victory Over the Oil Spill" and waves to the crowds ala Bush and his stunt?? Bush took 409 days of vacation, Obama meets a basketball team for a quick photo op and he is a slacker? There is no comparison, Obama is highly educated, articulate and very underestimated by the Reps. - sorry, Obama didn't have a daddy to get him his job. You might want to do a little research on Lee Atwater - and Rush's background . . . you might not like what you find - don't read McCain's autobiorgraphy, it will make you sick. Maybe, just maybe some white people voted for Obama because - here is a concept - they wanted to. Taxes and goverment will always increase, you might want to get a history book as well. Bush's dad said no more new taxes, yeah, and he raised the existing ones. Sorry, government by its nature will always have an element of corruption - to get rid of corruption, get rid of human nature.

June 6, 2010 at 1:34 p.m.
sd said...

Texas, if that entire post is directed towards me, and it appears to be, you may want to reread my original post without any preconceived bias. I don't think I said anything that is confusing or needs to be clarified.

If I misunderstood your intent, and you're just ranting for the sake of ranting, then carry on, I guess.

June 6, 2010 at 3:50 p.m.
Oz said...

alprova...The tea party post brought tears to my eyes. Thanks for posting it.

June 6, 2010 at 4:02 p.m.
alprova said...

SavartiTN wrote: "al, thanks for posting that Youtube link. It was incredible!

Oz wrote: "alprova...The tea party post brought tears to my eyes. Thanks for posting it.


You're welcome and it was my pleasure.

Did you notice the audience? One woman stood up and before you knew it, EVERYONE was on their feet.

People have been trying to convince me that not all Tea-Party events are the same, and I have seen and heard the proof with my own eyes.

If only people would just lighten up on the President...because he truly isn't the worst person who could be in there at the moment.

June 6, 2010 at 5:48 p.m.
rolando said...

So, Ringo, now you, along with alpo, consider the military retiree and Social Security recipient to be in a lower class of society [the proletariat]. Interesting, that. It is simply amazing just how many of the Left-Progs absolutely hate those two groups of retirees. You are lucky we are not protected by hate-laws [being just ordinary folks, some of whom laid their lives on the line for the likes of you Proggies].

But that's all right, we expect it ever since Vietnam...

June 6, 2010 at 6:39 p.m.
rolando said...

Alpo has never heard of VAT [Dear Leader's Value Added Tax] on just about everything...well, maybe not air...but that's only because DL hasn't figured out how to hook us up yet.

And it ain't just the rich who will pay it...it is everyone, quarter-million income and under included.

And that's just for starters...his Energy control system will effect everyone. It isn't just for the Algore's with big mansions...everyone who uses electricity will pay it. Oh, it won't be called a tax, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...well, you get the idea.

Dumbo has to pay for his healthcare bill somehow...other than letting the oldsters [who collect Social Security, etc] die off, maybe with some help.

June 6, 2010 at 6:45 p.m.
alprova said...

Roland wrote: "Alpo has never heard of VAT [Dear Leader's Value Added Tax] on just about everything...well, maybe not air...but that's only because DL hasn't figured out how to hook us up yet."


This is all you have come up with after 24 hours?

Value added taxes have been discussed, without question, however the timeline that has been discussed for implementation of any value added tax on anything, is at least a decade in the future.

This is what you do each and every time you are challenged. Rather than to admit that you were incorrect, you go grasping at straws. Your straws are just as incorrect.

Remember, you said, "Wait until you see what your Dear Leader has in mind for you NEXT year."

Do you see the problem? I'm sure everyone else does.


"And it ain't just the rich who will pay it...it is everyone, quarter-million income and under included."


You're presuming something that has not even been put on paper to date. If and when any VAT is proposed, passed, or implemented, it may very well come with an income exclusion or pre-bate system for those who make under a certain amount of income.


"And that's just for starters...his Energy control system will effect everyone. It isn't just for the Algore's with big mansions...everyone who uses electricity will pay it. Oh, it won't be called a tax, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...well, you get the idea."


All I get is that you are spouting off completely unfounded rhetoric, none of which can be substantiated, as usual.

Your "energy control system," I am assuming, is some reference to Cap & Trade, which has yet to have made it past the discussion phase of the legislative process. Those, much like yourself, haven't taken the time to actually dig into the details of what HAS been proposed to come to the realization that you actually know nothing about it.


"Dumbo has to pay for his healthcare bill somehow...other than letting the oldsters [who collect Social Security, etc] die off, maybe with some help."


Don't worry Rolando. The President is not going to let you die, if and when you are hospitalized. No one will be slipping any cyanide into your saline drip.

You do realize that there are pills out there that will ease your out-of-control paranoia, don't you? The taxpayers will be more than happy to pay for them too.

June 6, 2010 at 8:08 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "So, Ringo, now you, along with alpo, consider the military retiree and Social Security recipient to be in a lower class of society...It is simply amazing just how many of the Left-Progs absolutely hate those two groups of retirees. You are lucky we are not protected by hate-laws...[being just ordinary folks, some of whom laid their lives on the line for the likes of you Proggies].


Again, never have I stated that anyone, other than yourself and strictly due to the attitude you have shown in this forum, should be considered to be anything buy what they are.

I have no idea what "class" you fall into, other than that of a complete kook who supports a political party that knows not your name or that cares one way or the other whether you live or die.

You claim that I hate anyone is a machination of your own creation, based on whatever happens to guilt you on a daily basis. You have repeatedly spent all of your credibility and any deserved respect after multiple examples of failing to live up to any example of either in this forum.

I remind you once again that you have stated clearly that you never saw battle, so I fail to understand why you include yourself in any group of people who have laid their lives on the line for anyone.

Did someone shoot a paper clip and hit you in the nose with it? Would you like a purple heart so that you add that to your list of accomplishments in life? I'll be happy to draw you one on paper with one of my Grandchildren's crayons and upload it so that you have have a copy of it.

Rolando, it's really about time that you take down the old wooden cross that you like to nail yourself to. You're not Jesus, and the wood could be used by someone for a far better purpose, and you'd be saving the life of a tree that might be cut down instead.

In conclusion, if you consider any of the above to be a criminal act of "hate," by all means, you don't need a special law to have me prosecuted. Civil courts entertain all kind of cases and quite often award punitive damages whenever someone has been emotionally abused.

Sue me.

June 6, 2010 at 8:43 p.m.
TexasStar said...

sd wrote "If I misunderstood your intent, and your just ranting" Sd, not everything is about you - no one is clarifying, you might need to take the chip off your shoulder and do a little rereading yourself, something other than your own spam. White people strongly relate to the President as a father figure, studies showed after Pres. Kennedy died, the suicide rate among white, educated males skyrocketed. In trying to understand this reaction it was discovered that white males, especially ones with weak, alcoholic or emotionally unavailable fathers relate closely to public figures they perceive to have the qualities their fathers do not - i.e. men tend to think of the Pres. as a pseudo father-after all, it is the highest office in the country, who better to cling to. The same reaction was not found among black males after Martin Luther King's death. White males are without a "daddy" and the bashing, name calling, threats just validate the study, total over reaction and distortion because their in no one in the highest office "they" can relate to.
And heres another tip for you sd, is you don't like rants, stay off political discussions, keep your facts and figures to yourself and go back to working on updating your Facebook friends. Geez

June 6, 2010 at 11:17 p.m.
sd said...

Since we are strangers, and it's possible I worded my original comment poorly, I'll try one more time.

I had two points:

1) 24-hour news channels have aided the climate of partisan criticism, regardless of who is in office.

2) The "white racist votes" and "black racist votes" in the 2008 election were a low percentage of total votes and probably canceled each other out.

I don't understand how the responses you addressed to me correlate to those statements, so I assume you either misread my post or are building straw men. If we ARE having a misunderstanding then hopefully I explained my points a little better this time.

June 7, 2010 at 8:37 p.m.
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