published Thursday, October 28th, 2010

Midterm Election

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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dunkziy said...

From what I'm seeing.. the stick has both party names on it.

October 28, 2010 at 1:21 a.m.
chattreb said...

LOL. Guess the guy throwing is a Dem.

October 28, 2010 at 2:32 a.m.
Francis said...

looks like joe biden , but without the hairplugs.

October 28, 2010 at 4:07 a.m.
alprova said...

chattreb wrote: "LOL. Guess the guy throwing is a Dem."


Nope. Can't be. Notice the missing tooth?

October 28, 2010 at 5:41 a.m.
alprova said...

Corrected Post

chattreb wrote: "LOL. Guess the guy throwing is a Dem."


Nope. Can't be. Notice the missing tooth? That's definitely a Tea-Partier.

October 28, 2010 at 5:44 a.m.
Tax_Payer said...

Clay, Very good comic today! I can't count how many times I've been betrayed and kicked in the face by the GOP. Especially the ones that claim to be Christians.

October 28, 2010 at 5:47 a.m.
woody said...

Too true..too true. And Tuesday's outcome will likely make this 'toon' appear to be a bit of fortune-telling.

However, I have to wonder how long it will be before the electorate finally realizes the errors of their ways. Eventually they must come to the conclusion it's just like mother always said.

It will never get better if you keep picking them.

Hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst, Woody

October 28, 2010 at 6:38 a.m.
EaTn said...

This is like the republican dairy farmer that was about to go bankrupt from low milk prices when the county agent came by and suggested he raise beef cattle, which the farmer agreed to try. Within a couple years the farmer was out of debt and the county agent came by and congratulated him for his new prosperity. The farmer replied "yep, now I can afford to get back to dairy farming".

October 28, 2010 at 6:48 a.m.
hambone said...

Yes, Yes. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result!!

October 28, 2010 at 7:51 a.m.

More sour grapes from Clay Bennett. Just cry into your pillow, that will make you feel better.

October 28, 2010 at 8:03 a.m.
Francis said...

"doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"

...like socialism

October 28, 2010 at 8:33 a.m.
eeeeeek said...

"The whole Bible preaches that people ("men") must repent"

It says more than that.

God commands the Israelites to "blot out the rembrance of Amalek from under heaven." A few hundred years later God orders Saul to kill of the Amalekites "both man and woman, infant and suckling." 1 Samual 15:2-3 Deuteronomy 25:19

Do you think they killed the parents first to avoid the struggle of trying to protect their children? Or did they kill the children first so they could watch and hear the parents cries of horror.

Why does the god in the story enjoy killing babies?

If it was real, it's the one that needs to repent.

October 28, 2010 at 8:41 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

This cartoon might have actually been funny, but I find myself somewhat numbed by the constant liberal theme. This constant drum-beat is about what you would expect from some extremist liberal web site, not the opinion page of a centrist local newspaper.

October 28, 2010 at 9:28 a.m.
Musicman375 said...

Funny joke, al. Although I had assumed the tooth was knocked out by the boomerang. Either way, dunkziy has it right.

October 28, 2010 at 9:29 a.m.
junepop55 said...

BigRidgePatriot writes, "...I find myself somewhat numbed by the constant liberal theme. This constant drum-beat is about what you would expect from some extremist liberal web site, not the opinion page of a centrist local newspaper."

The Times Free Press has two separate editorial pages every single day and there are cartoons on each page representing both conservative and liberal viewpoints. I suspect the left page cartoon makes the website because the cartoonist is in-house and the paper therefore has rights to distribute that content online.

I'd like to see more cartoons from Clay that ridicule our inept politicians/political system in general, but apparently his job is to rah rah the troops on the far left and only the far left.

October 28, 2010 at 10:50 a.m.
junepop55 said...

Indian - what are some specifics your republican candidates would do to "take our country back and get it back on track before it is to(sic) late!" ??

October 28, 2010 at 11:33 a.m.
rolando said...

This just in!!

The Libs on board here actually have what the homosexuals claim THEY have -- it is in their genes!

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/10/28/researchers-liberal-gene-genetics-politics/

They can't help themselves...they have absolutely no choice but to be liberals. They are born that way. Which explains why Lib switch-hitters make such poor conservatives...

Roaringly hilarious!

October 28, 2010 at 11:57 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Rolando, That is exactly why I don't trust everything a so called scientist says. How ridiculous! But thanks for the laugh.

October 28, 2010 at 12:09 p.m.
rolando said...

Great cartoon, BigRidge.

They are bookmarked.


junepop55 --

Clay has willingly taken on the role of the TFP's uber-Left jester, dressed in motley and wearing the belled cap. He seemingly believes in what he draws...and draws what he believes.

He can't help himself, you see; it is in his DNA [or something].

October 28, 2010 at 12:22 p.m.
rolando said...

Yeah, isn't it, nurse. We have a couple of those same scientists on board here...

October 28, 2010 at 12:28 p.m.
acerigger said...

From the article Rolando linked,"The researchers reported that "it is the crucial interaction of two factors -- the genetic predisposition and the environmental condition of having many friends in adolescence -- that is associated with being more liberal.">>>>>>>>>>>Sounds as though they're saying that "conservatives" don't have many friends.

October 28, 2010 at 12:44 p.m.
XMarine said...

Funny thing.We are all for liberty until it comes to our own country.One way or hit the door.Liberals will fight for ya every time.

October 28, 2010 at 12:54 p.m.
rolando said...

Enough to vote, ace...


Slightly off topic but maybe not. Anyone see that the ninth district panel outlawed Arizona's law that voters must show citizenship to vote? They had to bring in former uber-left SCOTUS judge Sandra O'Conner to out vote the single conservative, but that's life in the ninth.

All one will have to do to vote in this country is to register and state they are a citizen. No ID checks, nothing.

Perhaps those states thinking about allowing non-citizens to vote have it right...think of the money saved by eliminating registration, voting lists at polling places, list checking, ballot boxes, all those poll watchers, etc. Voters could just stay home and call one phone number to vote for one guy, another number for his opponent, etc.

Half serious about that last paragraph; we are going to Muslim Hell, anyway. Maybe the Mexicans will out vote THEM.

October 28, 2010 at 1 p.m.
EaTn said...

Indian-- it's not the democrats nor republicans destroying our country, it's the politicians that we all are guilty of spending millions to send to the corruption pit Washington where they all get dyed green and are virtually indistinguishable. After this election there will be a lot of hoopla but a year from now things will still be basically the same.

October 28, 2010 at 1:03 p.m.
makasi said...

Bennett has become so predictable that he has become irrelevant.

October 28, 2010 at 1:07 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Username: rolando | On: October 28, 2010 at 11:57 a.m. "This just in!! The Libs on board here actually have what the homosexuals claim THEY have -- it is in their genes!"

Thanks rolando, you just demonstated the only reason I click on clays stupid cartoons. To find the humor in the comments below.

October 28, 2010 at 1:58 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Something I have noticed. The "comment useful" number on these posts is inversely proportional to the intelligence of the poster. I think it must give a lib a sense of power to vote down an opposing viewpoint. I vote that all intelligent people decline to vote at all so that we can scan the “zeros” to find the insightful comments.

(I wonder if this post will now win me a bunch of "usefuls" from the libs, trying to hurt my feelings)

October 28, 2010 at 2:07 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "Roaringly hilarious!"


You're the butt end of your own joke Rolando.

You're 100% dependent upon the very aspects of Socialism that the Democrats fight for every day, and yet, you are poised to vote for the dolts who would gamble the funds from which your income is derived.

You are poised to vote for those who want to cut Medicare benefits, or worse, turn over that system to the insurance companies, that we all know have such care and concern for those who become ill or injured.

If it were not for the simple fact that we cannot afford another round of the Republicans raiding the financial resources of this nation, I'd call for you to receive all you desire.

You'll wake up one day, when it's too late.

October 28, 2010 at 2:08 p.m.
ibshame said...

What's the first order of business for the Tea Party Repubs? Privatize Social Security so Wall Street can get their hands on it like they almost did in 2005? Reverse Obama Care so the Insurance Companies can deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions? How about giving the Banks free reign again to engage in creative banking tools like they had before? Better yet, how about de-regulating the oil companies again so they have the opportunity to do even more deep well drilling off shore? You know that disaster in the Gulf was just a figment of everyone's imagination this year. No harm was really done to the Gulf Coast. Yeah right. And if they really want to get the ball rolling on their agenda, why not abolish Unemployment benefits altogether?
Those Repub and Tea Party candidates have a plan alright. If they didn't do enough damage the last time they were in control I can't wait to see the follow-up.

October 28, 2010 at 2:19 p.m.
woody said...

Okay, I am still hoping for the best next Tuesday, but I'm willing to be big about it and say..I will watch with much anticipation how all of the new Conservatives will work with their Liberal counterparts after January 1.

Because, you see, all you have done for nearly two years now is 'bellyache', *itch, and blind those who are weak of mind with all of your inane rhetoric pertaining to all of the current administration's attempts at 'righting'(no pun intended) the wrongs of the previous eight years.

That's right (no pun intended) you'll actually have to get off your sorry behinds and "DO" something. I know it won't be nearly as much fun as you have been having, but then you won't have that 'pesky' Democratic majority to blame either.

So, "GET READY", "GET SET", now "SHUT UP and DO SOMETHING!"

Smile... Woody

October 28, 2010 at 2:29 p.m.
woody said...

P.S. to BRP..I don't vote down opposing ideas, theories or comments..only ignorant ones....

Try again, Woody

October 28, 2010 at 2:32 p.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Yawn. Ho Hum

October 28, 2010 at 2:45 p.m.
hambone said...

GRIDLOCK WILL BE GOOD

October 28, 2010 at 2:57 p.m.
Francis said...

makasi, you're correct. he's irrelevant.

he's a cheerleader.

to blindly blame only one party at this point, when there's plenty of blame to go around for much of the mess that exist today..is embarrassing... contrary to popular belief on this site george w bush is not a sacred cow to many of us..nor is the republican party.....

people are fed up with both parties...that's why you see what's going on out there....obama, who was supposed to be "the one'...has proven to nothing more than a political hack...and not a very skilled one at that.

mr. bennett is a pretty good propagandist...but he offers no insight.

.

October 28, 2010 at 3:33 p.m.
junepop55 said...

Francis, that was a reasonable and cogent post! Thank you.

October 28, 2010 at 3:46 p.m.
ITguy said...

The DNA part is also sometimes referred to IQ. That stands for Intelligence Quotient.

In case you haven't noticed, things are getting better in this country. We are not out of the woods, but we have reversed the direction.

If you are willing to give Derek Dooley a couple of years, why not Obama? (UT football coach for those who are not College football fans) Oh, and by the way the Republicans have done nothing for the last two years except sit on the side lines and throw rocks.

Neither party is perfect, but the Republicans have consistently been on the wrong side of history and have favored the wealthy at the expense of the middle class. If you fail to see that, then you need to stop listening to Rush and Glenn Beck and open your eyes.

October 28, 2010 at 5:33 p.m.

Only God can save this country.

October 28, 2010 at 5:39 p.m.
Francis said...

you're way off base, ITguy........they may be getting better in your head, but not in the real world. you wouldn't see the level of anger and mistrust out there if they were. obama is lousy salesman for his vision. did you see him on the daily show? what a humorless, grim faced socialist. pointing at jon stewart when he felt the question was too challenging.

why should the republicans go along with something they feel is destructive? why...just to get along and give obama what he wants and avoid the wrath of joy behar???

you're generalization about republicans is ludicrous and it's based on a stereoptype perpetuated by the liberal media. if you think the modern democrat party is not in bed with "the rich"...then you're delusional.

the middle class is running away from obama and the democrats in droves right now..why whould that be? if obama has his way we would have that 1% transaction fee that would affect everyone...we would see it if we write a check or make credit card transaction...etc..

you don't help the middle class by taking more and more of what t hey earn...nor anyone else. you damage someone's ability to keep what they earn, then you're weakening them, not empowering them..

who should people listen too, ITguy....whoopi goldberg, joy behar, lady gaga, barney frank, npr, ....read only time, newsweek....listen to the golden tongue of katie, "the great unwashed middle of the country" couric....

sorry, but obama is being rejected for good reasons....he's a poor salesman and comes across like an elitest....

October 28, 2010 at 6:46 p.m.
ITguy said...

Well Francis, private sector job growth has steadily improved since Obama took office. That is probably the most important change possible. We are still spending far more than we should, but 80% of the budget is made up of Military, Social Security, Medicare and Medicade. Now in this economy, if you cut the Military where will the vets find jobs? If you cut entitlements, who will that hurt? Not the rich.

You said"you don't help the middle class by taking more and more of what they earn.". When did Obama suggest doing that?

Hambone wants gridlock. I will promise you that the Chinese government is not in gridlock. They are investing in infrastructure and education. The rest of the world is not sitting by and waiting for us to get our act together. We must stop the partisan bickering.

October 28, 2010 at 8:23 p.m.
hambone said...

I don't want Gridlock.

It will be unaviodable after this election.

October 28, 2010 at 8:42 p.m.
ITguy said...

I guess I misunderstood "Gridlock will be good".

October 28, 2010 at 9:01 p.m.
rolando said...

Gridlock will be an order of magnitude better than the total government meddling we have had in the last two years.

Tie their hands so they can't screw the pooch and maybe we will pull out of this.

First we need to cut taxes and de-fund ObamaCare and those 16,000 IRS newhires; then trim the Medicare rolls to cover only those it was designed to cover -- and make it voluntary; eliminate illegal aliens from all welfare rolls; forbid obscene rewards to lawyers; and so on and so forth...

October 28, 2010 at 9:13 p.m.
Oz said...

I never thought I would see Clinton and Obama trying to get a Black Democrat out of a congressional race to make way for an ex GOP member.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/44337.html

October 28, 2010 at 10:38 p.m.
Francis said...

obama is not and never was "down with the struggle"....his upbringing and circles consist of the socialist/ theoratician/academician/1960's anti-american crowd rather than the black community. obama is part of the power elite....if it means getting rid of a black candidate in favor of a white guy who can win..then he'll go with it....even though the black candidate has earned it. the democrat party is looked at by the media as the party of equality...horsecrap...they use the black community to stay in power.

obama has nothing but disdain for the middle class....he only brings them up because he has too..he's an elitest.

October 28, 2010 at 11:56 p.m.
acerigger said...

WHO'S ghost-writing Fran's near-coherent posts today????????

October 29, 2010 at 1:41 a.m.
alprova said...

Oz, facts are important.

Any talk of asking Florida Senatorial candidate, Kendrick Meek, to step aside and to endorse Charlie Crist did not ever involve President Obama. He in fact campaigned for the man separately and personally last week.

Charlie Crist is the ONLY person claiming that such a request was made. Why he decided to speak with Politico and to disclose such things is anyone's guess. The man looks like a complete liar at this point because even Meek denies a request was made by anyone.

All that aside, Meek SHOULD step aside, for the good of the party. He really doesn't have any chance whatsoever to win against Rubio, nor will he win more votes than Crist will.

And see what you did by posting something in error about the President? Now you've got Francis foaming at the mouth, thinking that the President asked a black man to step to the back of the bus, thus making him now, an "elitist."

Sheesh...

October 29, 2010 at 4:14 a.m.
alprova said...

Francis recklessy wrote: "if obama has his way we would have that 1% transaction fee that would affect everyone...we would see it if we write a check or make credit card transaction...etc.."


Francis, that is a bonafied lie. It may not be yours, but you're repeating it without knowing the truth of the matter, and that makes you extremely ignorant.

President Obama has never proposed such a thing, nor has he endorsed such an idea, nor has anyone else but the Democratic Representative from the 2nd District of Pennsylvania, Chaka Fattah, who has been floating that silly idea around for six years now.

snopesdotcom/politics/taxes/debtfree.asp

factcheckdotorg/2010/09/1-transaction-tax/

thomasdotlocdotgov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.4646:

But you know what is interesting about all of this? Some of you folks are always crying about the debt, and even if this idea sucks, it's an idea nonetheless, proposed as a means in which to deal with reducing the National Debt.

It's interesting to note that anything at all taken from YOUR pockets is totally off-limits.

The only proposals being offered from the right involve cutting social programs, you know, the ones that assist those who have nothing at all, who are in dire need most of the time, or who are ill, infirmed, or disabled.

Basically, what the right are proposing is a society where if one is unable to work and contribute to society, and no one wants to sponsor their care, what the heck...let 'em die.

~~~~~ P.S. - I have been informed that the TFP is now removing all posts containing links to ANY site that takes you away from this one, so you will have to edit the above URL's by putting www. in front of it and by replacing the words "dot" with a period, so that you can go find the proof that Francis's statement is in fact totally untrue.

October 29, 2010 at 4:48 a.m.
BobMKE said...

Check out Andrew Mellon, John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, and how their taxes cuts have brought this country back each time. Now we have to do it again. Wouldn't we ever learn?

October 29, 2010 at 8:22 a.m.
Oz said...

alprova...I forgot. Crist and Arlen Sphincter are cut from the same mold.

October 29, 2010 at 8:47 a.m.

alprova wrote: "P.S. - I have been informed that the TFP is now removing all posts containing links to ANY site that takes you away from this one.."

Yes, the TFP is doing everyone here a hugh favor by regulating all long-winded conspiracy theory comments.

BTW, gridlock is good as it demands that sensible people work together and share ideas in order to compromise on decisions. No party should ever have super majority control over the government.

October 29, 2010 at 9:24 a.m.
eeeeeek said...

I remember in 2009 Crist said the reason Florida has not been hit by any major storms since he took office is because he has asked God to spare us.

Early this year, a fellow atheist from Florida inquired during a public gathering about the hurrican prevention program. When learning the questioner was an atheist Crist grabbed the sticker that was placed on the atheist by a staffer during the exchange in which he had asked Crist about the issue. Crist went drama queen and angrily went away screaming "I feel sorry for you"

I couldn't find any of the same nuttery of Arlen... does anyone have any thoughts on key word search?

October 29, 2010 at 10:21 a.m.
Francis said...

you libs call my comments cogent or coherent only if i don't show too much conservative passion..or zeal..then i'm ok. it's ok for libs to be passionate but not conservatives, huh?

regarding the meek/clinton/crist issue..........if it was a repbulican party issue, mr. bennett would be all over it like white on rice. i don't believe obama didn't approve of this...no way.....for the democrat party to try and back a weasel like crist is the lowest. i disagree with nearly everything meek stands for, but i admire him for not backing down to clinton..and also, i believe..to obama.

October 29, 2010 at 10:47 a.m.
junepop55 said...

Francis,

Your posts are called cogent and coherent when they are cogent and coherent.

Knee jerk foaming at the mouth ranting that has no persuasive content may be passionate, but it is still knee jerk foaming at the mouth ranting, my friend. And I'm not necessarily a "lib", by the way. . .

October 29, 2010 at 11:13 a.m.
rolando said...

In your opinion Francis is knee-jerking, junepop; perhaps, perhaps not -- point is, he is speaking truth.

Get over your discomfort with people who passionately tell things like they are, using language of their own choosing, and listen to the message...translating as you go, if you feel it necessary.

This is NOT a High School debating forum after all.

Few of our Founders and Revolutionary Patriots were picky in the words they used: Blood waters the tree of freedom; liberty or death; but one life to give; damn the torpedos [post Rev War]; ya wanna live forever [another one]; the list is endless.

October 29, 2010 at 12:32 p.m.
Musicman375 said...

There is the issue of perception and/or opinion, junepop55. What may be defined as "knee jerk foaming at the mouth ranting" by one certainly may not be by another.

Just because so many people disagree with Francis on this site doesn't mean his posts are any less valuable than another's, at least by some peoples' standards. I find the actual content of most of his posts to be closer to the mark than so many others on here, even if he is obviously disgusted with the president, as shown in his delivery tactics. People who don't like him do everything they can to chase him away, and it just isn't going to work.

October 29, 2010 at 12:34 p.m.
junepop55 said...

Rolando and Musicman -

Francis often has valid points and his voice has a place here, for sure. He shouldn't be "chased away" - it is just tiresome when his mantra has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Why does a person with a conservative viewpoint publicly post under a liberal cartoon? The only answer I can come up with is to express a disagreement with the point of the cartoon.

An off-topic "Obama is a big fat stupid socialist" comment is a knee jerk rant, mainly because it is off topic. It's not interesting to read and it doesn't contribute to the discussion. Which is sad, because Francis has shown he can be a "passionate conservative" in a persuasive way.

Rolando: comparing the posts from Francis I have a problem with to famous founding father quotes? Really? Tea Party Tourette's Syndrome is not the same thing as inspirational revolutionary war wisdom.

October 29, 2010 at 1:22 p.m.
alprova said...

junepop wrote: "Tea Party Tourette's Syndrome is not the same thing as inspirational revolutionary war wisdom."


Amen to that.

October 29, 2010 at 1:34 p.m.
alprova said...

Musicman wrote: "People who don't like him do everything they can to chase him away, and it just isn't going to work."


No one is trying to chase anyone away, and I personally don't have an opinion one way or the other as to whether I like or dislike the man.

If someone posts their opinion, fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

If someone posts something presented as fact, and it is not a fact, then their ignorance or preponderance to lie will be exposed for what it is.

Francis isn't interested in any facts. He's sticks to his ignorant and totally dishonest positions in spite of facts that clearly contradict it.

And if anyone wants to side with such ignorance and dishonesty, it's no skin off my nose. You have lots of company throughout our nation.

The day of anyone being allowed to spread ignorance and dishonesty unabated has long since passed, and that is what I am all about.

October 29, 2010 at 1:50 p.m.
Clara said...

I'm going to sit back and enjoy several hours of "Horror" movies in a nearby town on Halloween. It will prepare me for November 2nd, I'm sure, no matter what the outcome is. C:-)

October 29, 2010 at 1:54 p.m.
Clara said...

Does anyone want to save the $20 to $30 worth of "Historic" advertising I've received in the mail, plus the unknown amount of polls, letters, visits, etc. that mostly were scurrulous claims, and so forth. I wonder how much this worthless stuff cost and was wasted over the entire country.

Most of it seems to have come from the "Right".

Don't tell me how awful the other candidate is. I want to hear what the candidate has to offer.

Sheesh!

October 29, 2010 at 2:05 p.m.
alprova said...

Oz wrote: "alprova...I forgot. Crist and Arlen Sphincter are cut from the same mold."


I don't have a particular opinion about either man, and I fail to understand what one has to do with the other.

My only point of contention was with you attaching the President to any controversy surrounding the issue of whether or not Meek was asked to step aside. No one, not even Crist, has made any claim that the President or anyone in his Administration has been involved in asking Meek to step aside and to endorse Crist.

I also need to retract something I said. Meek shouldn't step aside. I forgot that Charlie Crist is a Republican who decided to renounce his party affiliation in order to run for that Senate seat a second time, after losing to Rubio one time already.

Having updated my understandings a little to the man and his history, I am less convinced than ever that any assertion on his part that Bill Clinton or anyone with the Democrats would have asked a declared Democrat step aside.

MSNBC captured video of the man claiming that people close to Bill Clinton spoke with him by telephone, again something rather far-fetched in my opinion.

Arlen Spector made the jump over the aisle to become a declared Democrat. Crist has not. He's only jumped halfway, and as such, is not a man who is on the radar screen of the Democrats. If he were to win, he'd likely redeclare himself a Republican, if they would have him that is.

Rubio will win the seat.

October 29, 2010 at 2:16 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "In your opinion Francis is knee-jerking, junepop; perhaps, perhaps not -- point is, he is speaking truth."


No, much like yourself, he deals in your brand of truth, which is not rooted in fact most of the time.


"Get over your discomfort with people who passionately tell things like they are, using language of their own choosing, and listen to the message...translating as you go, if you feel it necessary."


People who are passionate are not always rational. In fact, they are often irrational and our prisons are filled with many passionate people who acted on behalf of their particular passions.


"This is NOT a High School debating forum after all."


You're right. Most of us operate with a higher level of education under our belts.


"Few of our Founders and Revolutionary Patriots were picky in the words they used: Blood waters the tree of freedom; liberty or death; but one life to give; damn the torpedos [post Rev War]; ya wanna live forever [another one]; the list is endless."


As is the list of people who will pluck words out of context from that which is contained in the Bible.

Your point?

October 29, 2010 at 2:31 p.m.
Clara said...

Alprova,

Thanks! With a little finagling, I found Fact Check, and Thomas, and put it on my spam check site. I've already had Snopes for years.

October 29, 2010 at 2:31 p.m.
alprova said...

bookieturnersghost wrote: "Yes, the TFP is doing everyone here a hugh favor by regulating all long-winded conspiracy theory comments."


My posts have not been largely affected, if that is your charge. In light of the fact that posts have not been removed today, so far, it may be that the recent policy change may be under review.

Like always, you are free to disprove at any time, any statement I make, if you're up to the task. I don't deal in "theories." I deal in provable facts. I do so many times by covering all the bases, as some things just cannot be condensed into one or two sentences.

If that is a problem for you, please feel free to skim over my posts like Rolando claims to do. I'm sure you don't post to please anyone. You do so for reasons of your own.

October 29, 2010 at 2:41 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We don't pass it to our children in their blood stream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend out sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the Unitied Stated where men were free.

If not us - Who? If not Now - When?

above by Ronald Reagan

When starts next Tuesday.

October 29, 2010 at 2:52 p.m.
alprova said...

I missed this gem;

Rolando wrote: "First we need to cut taxes and de-fund ObamaCare and those 16,000 IRS newhires;"


Rolando, that lie was shot down 7 months ago. We discussed in in this very forum as well. Just so you know, it's still a lie.

http://factcheck.org/2010/03/irs-expansion/


"then trim the Medicare rolls to cover only those it was designed to cover -- and make it voluntary;"


Oh. Does this mean that you will volunteer to opt out of the program? You are a self-admitted beneficiary of Medicare, are you not?


"eliminate illegal aliens from all welfare rolls;"


That's not a federal issue. That is an individual state issue. I thought you tea-partiers were all about states rights.


"forbid obscene rewards to lawyers; and so on and so forth..."


Given that about 90% of all politicians are Attorneys, do you really think that tort reform will be proposed or passed by the Republicans?

You truly are in La La land.

October 29, 2010 at 3:02 p.m.
rolando said...

junepop, I have no idea what "Tourette's Syndrom" is nor do I wish to know. It is irrelevant. Are you now turning to the Liberal's Last Defence, personal attack? You've been pretty good up to now.

I also don't know where you got the idea I am a tea party member; I like many of the things they stand for -- and support them -- but I oppose some, too. I even like a couple-three things the Dems have done. JFK was one hell of a role-model.

If anything, I am an Independent who believes in what our constitution says, not what today's folks SAY it says...the last decade or two has turned me that way.

It must be a life-experience thing; one is first an idealistic Democrat; as he matures he realizes idealism is a dream and Republican compromise is more realistic; finally, he learns that compromise is not surrender and he becomes what he always was at heart -- a realist and a conservative.

Pity you don't seem to appreciate what passionate, patriotic discourse can accomplish. It is neither bland hyperbole nor empty rhetoric not meant to be taken literally. All great leaders -- and lesser ones -- have used it to ur country's advantage.

October 29, 2010 at 3:36 p.m.
junepop55 said...

Rolando - "Tea Party Tourette's" was a label applied to SOME of Francis' posts (the ones I was complaining about) - not your post. I wasn't attacking you (or even Francis) - I just had a problem with you comparing the worst of Francis' posts to the best of our founding fathers' words.

I like the Tea Party's mission of fiscal responsibility. Some of the other stuff they purport scares me, though. Maybe that's the fringe of their movement popping up and making the news, maybe not.

"Tourette's was once considered a rare and bizarre syndrome, most often associated with the exclamation of obscene words or socially inappropriate and derogatory remarks."

October 29, 2010 at 3:48 p.m.
junepop55 said...

By the way, Rolando - when you wrote "Are you now turning to the Liberal's Last Defence, personal attack?" were you conveniently forgetting about your non-liberal friend the Canary?

C'mon now - you can take issue with someone disagreeing with you without resorting to inflammatory sweeping generalities, can't you?

October 29, 2010 at 3:59 p.m.
Clara said...

Rolando,

You didn't want to know but this says it better than I can for others.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/tourette/detail_tourette.htm#158813231

October 29, 2010 at 4:02 p.m.
rolando said...

No apology needed or expected, junepop. You surprised me. [Shows how long I have been posting here.]

It wasn't the language/grammar Francis used either; it was the basic content and meaning as well as the idea of heartfelt free expression. There are MANY on this forum who would vehemently suppress the slightest disagreement with their position...and then deny they did it.

The Tea Party is made up of a VERY diverse group of people. As with all such groups, it has its share of extremists at both ends of the bell-curve...to say nothing of the disruptors sneaking into their midst.

Thanks for your response.

October 29, 2010 at 4:07 p.m.
Clara said...

This is NOT addressed to Rolando!

It is much more widespread than was thought.

This will have you looking closely at ALL your contacts. (And yourself!)

I don't think this is off-topic as it was brought up in reference to this Blog.

October 29, 2010 at 4:10 p.m.
rolando said...

Surprisingly, canaryinacoalmine very rarely initiated personal attacks, although he certainly responded to them. And he remembered those who continuously attacked him...and responded accordingly, sometimes making a preemptory attack. As I sometimes do in anticipation of an onslaught. [Conservatives on this forum are outnumbered about 6 or 8 to 1 [which is pretty good odds]. It IS a liberal forum, after all -- but it is the only one we have.]

But again, almost everything canary posted was well presented and well documented.

But yes, he had his bad moments too. We all do. It has to do with Internet anonymity and a short fuse. It brings out the frank speech.

I also ignore a couple of them and skip over their empty, long-winded rhetoric.

October 29, 2010 at 4:24 p.m.
Francis said...

thanks for those that have posted positive things about my posts...

regarding cogent and coherent....once again...i don't believe my posts are incoherent...they may be abrasive.. ...and often i don't take time to correct spelling and punctuation...and i'm a poor typist...i don't have time. i get things in when i don't have something i'm working on.

i'm not looking for a good grade.

one time i posted a comment regarding michelle obama's "veggie patch" it was a times piece about michelle obama setting a good example by having her own garden..or something like that

i posted something like...why doesn't she yank a big ol' cabbage out of her veggie patch and plop it on her husband neck..it wouldn't make any difference.

well..my point was that i question his intelligence and the brilliance awarded him was premature....instead of searching for adjectives...i just illustrated it in a sarcastic way....

it works. when i use the word jackass.. or stupid ass.....i think that says it quite well......i don't have time to break out a thesaurus..

regarding cogent...well...i do get off topic sometimes...but i'm sure it won't ruin anyone's day on here.

October 29, 2010 at 4:45 p.m.
junepop55 said...

Rolando - "Surprisingly, canaryinacoalmine very rarely initiated personal attacks, although he certainly responded to them. And he remembered those who continuously attacked him...and responded accordingly, sometimes making a preemptory attack."

I am the person who collected, analyzed and created a database of canary posts, remember?

I am sitting here slack jawed in amazement at your post, Rolando. Canary's nasty ambushes were not just directed at the usual suspects on the cartoon forum. Canary would viciously attack anyone posting on any story or letters to the editor on this website, for no good reason. I've never seen anything like it.

That collection of vile nastiness was literally nauseating to wade through. I posted that Canary's fondness for the word "Bub" was an acknowledgment of his lord, Beelzebub. I was only half-joking. I really and truly believe that Canary was doing Satan's work spreading hate on this planet.

If you honestly believe Canary very rarely initiated personal attacks, I am bewildered and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

October 29, 2010 at 4:49 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

Back to cartoon for a second:

Clay is making the point that for years Republicans have peddled the notion that cutting taxes on the rich will result in a trickle down economy that will balance the federal budget.

Reagan tried it, Bush I tried it, and Bush Lite tried it, and they all failed. In spectacular fashion by the way. It wasn't that the numbers were almost there. The federal debt exploded.

Bless their hearts, they know enough people in America are stupid enough to believe the same swill election after election.

Obama's stimulus contained the largest middle class tax cut in history. What are Republicans campaigning against? Tax and spend Washington liberals.

Even though the GOP boomerang keeps hitting them in the head, enough voters are willing to pick it up again and give it a good heave.

Republicans like to campaign on the presumption that government is the problem. Then they get elected, go to Washington, and prove their point.

I know conservatives will blast my comments but none of them will be able to present facts that prove supply side economics work as advertised.

Because they don't.

October 29, 2010 at 5 p.m.
SeaSmokie59er said...

BOHICA FUBAR BWS ... "real" Americans know I mean.

October 29, 2010 at 5:19 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

I can't believe anyone thinks clay's cartoon is worth commenting on. His intent is obvious. His premise is routed in a terminal lack of understanding.

The voters reaction has almost nothing to do with what the GOP is promising but rather what Obama, Pelosi and Reid have delivered. No thinking American wants reckless expansion of government, from the Democrats or the Republicans. Many of us are worried that the Republicans will again behave like Democrat Lite but we are very prepared to hold them accountable if they do.

Blackwater, you are absolutely blinded by your paradigm if you cannot see the failure of what the Democrats are offering.

October 29, 2010 at 5:58 p.m.
reaganwasright said...

Those wounds are fresh.

Must have been the Democrat boomerang!

This year, I'm taking a true conservative for a spin.... Vote For Savas!

October 29, 2010 at 6:50 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

Big ridge log cabin patriot opined:

"Blackwater, you are absolutely blinded by your paradigm if you cannot see the failure of what the Democrats are offering."

I refer to my previous statement: "I know conservatives will blast my comments but none of them will be able to present facts that prove supply side economics work as advertised. Because they don't."

Good job, big ridge, in avoiding the question, but for starters, Obama has provided nine straight months of private sector job growth. There have been more jobs created in the private sector than Bush lite provided in eight years.

In recent times, beginning with Reagan, the Republican "paradigm" has been high unemployment, big government, and big deficits.

I wish you would address those issues. I don't care who you vote for. Just don't lie about your reasons.

October 29, 2010 at 7:24 p.m.
hambone said...

I must say that Francis seems to be very mellow today.

Valium or Prozac?

October 29, 2010 at 7:45 p.m.
rolando said...

You forget yours?

October 29, 2010 at 8:14 p.m.
rolando said...

I had to look up the first and the last but am VERY familiar with the second having been a USAF regular for 25 years and a feather merchant for another 17. [A tip of the hat to Max Shulman.] Nothing like being in at ground zero...

You are absolutely right, BTW.

October 29, 2010 at 8:19 p.m.
Clara said...

It's been interesting today. I wasn't pushed over to the far "Left".

Good Night, all. Have a Happy...

October 29, 2010 at 10:36 p.m.
SavartiTN said...

Here's my prediction:

The Republicans will win the majority. After much chest thumping and hoopla, they will settle in to change the world. After two years, the world will discover that it wasn't changed for the better but after spending a lot more campaign money, the Republicans will try to convince America that two years wasn't long enough to undo what Obama did in his two years. Hence, more boomerang.

Mark my word.

October 29, 2010 at 11:02 p.m.
rolando said...

Sounds like today to me, savarti...except the party and the president's name are different.

October 29, 2010 at 11:20 p.m.
acerigger said...

Questions:

  1. What was the average monthly private sector job growth in 2008, the final year of the Bush presidency, and what has it been so far in 2010?

  2. What was the Federal deficit for the last fiscal year of the Bush presidency, and what was it for the first full fiscal year of the Obama presidency?

  3. What was the stock market at on the last day of the Bush presidency? What is it at today?

  4. Which party's candidate for speaker will campaign this weekend with a Nazi reenactor who dressed up in a SS uniform?

Answers:

  1. In 2008, we lost an average of 317,250 private sector jobs per month. In 2010, we have gained an average of 95,888 private sector jobs per month. (Source,Bureau of Labor Statistics) That's a difference of nearly five million jobs between Bush's last year in office and President Obama's second year.

  2. In FY2009, which began on September 1, 2008 and represents the Bush Administration's final budget, the budget deficit was $1.416 trillion. In FY2010, the first budget of the Obama Administration, the budget deficit was $1.291 trillion, a decline of $125 billion. (Source,CBO) Yes, that means President Obama has cut the deficit -- there's a long way to go, but we're in better shape now than we were under Bush and the GOP.

  3. On Bush's final day in office, the Dow, NASDAQ, and S&P 500 closed at 7,949, 1,440, and 805, respectively. Today, as of 10:15AM Pacific, they are at 11,108, 2,512, and 1,183. That means since President Obama took office, the Dow, NASDAQ, and S&P 500 have increased 40%, 74%, and 47%, respectively.

  4. The Republican Party, whose candidate for speaker, John Boehner, will campaign with Nazi re-enactor Rich Iott this weekend. If you need an explanation why this is offensive, you are a lost cause.

The moral of the story is this: if you vote Republican, I hope you enjoy Election Day -- because you're not going to like what comes next

October 29, 2010 at 11:33 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

Acerigger: Thanks for the statistical and historic perspective. I know researching economic date isn't always easy, even when the numbers are public record, but for many of our Republican friends, facts are just a nuisance.

In the end it doesn't really matter.

I've tracked down CBO and OMB numbers and had "conservatives" miss the points completely.

Some people are so ignorant, with no disrespect intended and not to insult all stupid people, they have a hard time trying to make a point.

I'm amused when they attack me personally because they think evidence proving them wrong is a personal attack. Then they turn around and call the President a socialist liberal nazi muslim communist extremists (having no clue what any of those things really mean), and then howl about taking the country back.

Personally, I wish they were more interested in taking the country forward, but such is the state of public discourse these days.

Just wanted to say thanks.

October 30, 2010 at 12:43 a.m.
acerigger said...

Like I said on another T-FP thread, people are gonna believe what they wanna believe. In other words, "don't confuse me with facts, my minds made up"!

October 30, 2010 at 1:01 a.m.
rolando said...

Perhaps a much more accurate picture of job losses are show in the following:

No one denies the crash began under Bush's liberal surge, but I suggest you closely watch the spread of the red dots from Nov 08 right up to Aug 10. The Jan 09 beginning of the fall is most telling.

http://labs.slate.com/articles/slate-job-map-unemployment-rate/

You gave it a nice spin, though.

October 30, 2010 at 2:27 p.m.
acerigger said...

Bush had a liberal surge?!?! I musta been drinkin' a lot more than I thought, I completely slept through that!

October 30, 2010 at 6:39 p.m.
alprova said...

Perhaps a much more accurate picture to employment comes straight from the U.S. Department of Labor, without fancy blog spawned, colored dots and circles on a map of the United States, meant to dazzle you you with complete and utter BS.

Far too many people deny that the crash was caused by Conservative greed and their coddling of interests that had the desire to siphon off all they could from Wall Street, but I suggest you closely take note of the fact that unemployment numbers from November 08 right up to Aug 10 are indeed most telling.

Unemployment is down an average of 2% nationwide since it topped out in various areas.

I spent two hours pulling the data state by state, a task that Rolando would never undertake in order to discover the FACTS of any issue;

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/oct/17/holdout/#c50442

October 30, 2010 at 10:53 p.m.
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