published Wednesday, December 28th, 2011

Outrageous gang violence

We expect Chattanooga to be a relatively peaceful, safe and law-abiding community. So it is outrageous that rival gangs on Christmas Eve reportedly wounded nine people in shootings outside a downtown club.

There has been violence at the establishment, Club Fathom, dating to 2006, and some city officials now say it is a public nuisance.

We can understand their concern. What if the latest nine victims -- five youths and four adults -- had been not only shot but killed?

We cannot judge at this point whether the club itself is doing something wrong or if it is as much a victim of the violence as its patrons are.

But that is a question the city should answer as soon as possible.

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nucanuck said...

Guns 'n gangs

Making hand guns readily available for our protection cuts both ways. When EVERYONE is armed, we all live in a war zone. Our gun lust will lead to ever increasing gun violence and over time that violence will be evident at all levels of society, in all neighborhoods.

Hand guns make us feel empowered to protect ourselves and yet hand gun proliferation only increases the odds that we will become a victim, whether or not we are armed.

As I have said before, hand gun proliferation is a sure sign of societal decline.

December 28, 2011 at 1:38 a.m.
rolando said...

Yeah, right. It's the guns, stupid.

Our society has been declining ever since the colonists were allowed to keep guns...

Again -- Yeah, right.

December 28, 2011 at 3:42 a.m.
holdout said...

When we have people walking the streets with multiple convictions for robbery, aggravated assault, and even murder I find it hard to get behind making new laws. What is the point of making guns completely illegal if the people violating the law will be slapped on the wrist and put back on the street? Is it really too harsh to incarcerate someone for life when they murder? Why would gun laws be enforced any stricter than the laws we have now?

December 28, 2011 at 8:05 a.m.
ceeweed said...

Are law abiding Tennessee citizens, with proper permits to carry handguns, allowed to carry their guns into a bar or nightclub? I'm just asking? Criminals have no reservations about packing a piece wherever they go. That fact makes the prospect of enjoying a night on the town less appealing for the civilized majority of Chattanooga citizens.... I have seen other cities, who have revived their blighted downtown districts, only to see these entertainment districts slip back into despair when a few establishments, who actively promote the thug life culture, fail to police their customers, who feel the need to emulate the behaviors celebrated by their rap star heroes...Going out to dinner and then enjoying some live music is not worth getting a cap in my A$$ as I walk back to my car.

December 28, 2011 at 8:15 a.m.
JustOneWoman said...

How many prostitutes have been arrested in the past year compared to gang violence arrests? Face it, our illustrious leaders want this to be just the way it is. We can pay for art but not for the police? Right! We pass laws that allow more guns on the street and wonder why everything gets shot up. I am not anti-gun, but I am pro common sense. And as my friend says, common sense is just not that common. One thought that I have not been able to lay to rest is...Was this manufactured? Was this problem created or pushed so that we call for more police? Who will benefit from this? Is there someone wanting the property? Something just doesn't smell right. Is this one of those situations that a problem is pushed to get the answer that was the goal in the first place?

December 28, 2011 at 8:39 a.m.
Livn4life said...

We have plenty of laws and the ones who are doing these type acts are not legal gun owners. But we want to get rid of those because it supposedly will cause gun violence to go down? Try to sell that idea in DC with the strictest gun laws around and see how down the violent gun crimes are there.

December 28, 2011 at 9:54 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Only after hand gun violence becomes intolerably epidemic will good people finally begin to consider ways to address what gun proliferation is doing to America.

December 28, 2011 at 10:16 a.m.
rolando said...

Are law abiding Tennessee citizens, with proper permits to carry handguns, allowed to carry their guns into a bar or nightclub?

Only if the bar/nightclub/any other business allows it, ceeweed. If they don't allow it, a plainly marked sign must be posted at all entrances to inform the law abiding citizen of such prohibition. Yes, the onus is on the business owner...the right to carry is, after all, a right and not easily infringed.

December 28, 2011 at 10:18 a.m.
rolando said...

Yeah, right, nucanuck. You would outlaw the one thing that made America free...very totalitarian [or whatever] of you.

But what can one expect of an expatriate who prefers a foreign country to that of his birth?

December 28, 2011 at 10:22 a.m.
rolando said...

We pass laws that allow more guns on the street and wonder why everything gets shot up

Those aren't the guns doing the shooting up, Justonewoman. It is the ones held illegally that are the problem.

December 28, 2011 at 10:24 a.m.
Bumpkin said...

Rolando, the INS is looking for you.

December 28, 2011 at 11:20 a.m.

Rolando, quite a lot, if you study the founding fathers of the United States. Leaving aside the issue of how they did reject their purported mother country in favor of loyalty to their birthplace, a fair number of them were not even born in the Colonies, but in Ireland, Scotland or England. Others, like Benjamin Franklin, were not famous residents of the place of their birth.

Or take Thomas Paine. Are you going to argue that he wasn't a patriot of his chosen home?

December 28, 2011 at 12:04 p.m.
nucanuck said...

rolando, I didn't move to my current address with hand guns in mind, but the near absence of gun violence here certainly made me think about the issue in a different light.

I take no pleasure in the devolution of the American social order and only see guns as a manifestation of that devolution. I don't favor outlawing guns, I favor the general population coming to understand that guns are a negative influence in a country that has to come to grips with a whole new reality. Our American Empire world domination days are over/ending and we have to adjust and find our new place in the world. I can see no way that hand guns can help us be who we want to be.

If you think your guns make you a better person, or make America a better place...well...I disagree.

December 28, 2011 at 12:27 p.m.
JustOneWoman said...

Rolando said....Those aren't the guns doing the shooting up, Justonewoman. It is the ones held illegally that are the problem.

I totally agree! But the more gun prone we are as a society, the more little Johnny will decide that this is his answer to all his problems. And if the NRA gets their way, (so far they have), there will be more illegal guns in the hands of criminals. Try talking about keeping a criminal from getting a gun at a gun show and watch the feathers fly.

Again, I am not anti-gun. Just pro common sense. I stand by my comment.

December 28, 2011 at 12:40 p.m.
acerigger said...

But,but,but,I thought "an armed society is a polite society!??

December 28, 2011 at 3:24 p.m.
fairmon said...

nucanuck said ....As I have said before, hand gun proliferation is a sure sign of societal decline.

Which came first? Will reversing one also reverse the other?

Local politicians and many citizens are clamoring about nine people getting shot at a local club and there has been other violence there. Some call it a nuisance and other descriptive names. Politicians and special interest are insisting on a political fix which will not work regardless of what it is. It may relocate the activity but it will still happen as long as there are people dumb enough to frequent a location where others get drunk, drugged, dumbed up etc. Do nothing and the law of supply and demand will work as the scared and those with intelligence enough start avoiding the place. This sounds insensitive but if a person is dumb enough to keep going to a place like that what is the loss if their dumb ass gets killed?

December 28, 2011 at 5:20 p.m.
ginagirl43 said...

Guns don't kill people. Stop making them the bad guys. I don't leave home w/o mine.

December 28, 2011 at 6:13 p.m.

If your gun can't kill a person, I'd suggest a replacement.

But I have good news for nucanuck.

Canada is not foreign. Rick Perry said so:

“Every barrel of oil that comes out of those sands in Canada is a barrel of oil that we don’t have to buy from a foreign source,”

December 28, 2011 at 7:30 p.m.
rolando said...

Nor do I, ginagirl. I took the advice of an old Marine and never carry any caliber that doesn't start with "4".


happy -- Is that like The Obama's claiming we have 57 states? Maybe he was counting Canada, China, Mexico, Kenya, and a couple of the Muslim states, ya think?

December 28, 2011 at 9:04 p.m.
rolando said...

Justonewoman -- I partly agree. Johnny's father [or mother] should take it upon himself [generic there] to teach safe gun handling to his spouse, daughters and sons at an early age -- mine learned with an air pistol in the basement at about 8-9, I think. As they grew, so did their weapons. They know exactly what kind of damage a gun will do. We fired every 3 months for years until they struck off on their own...with their favorite gun.

Anyone who buys a gun and doesn't know how and when to use it -- and to train family members in its use -- is a danger to everyone.

December 28, 2011 at 9:12 p.m.
fairmon said...

I like the idea of requiring every citizen reaching age 18 to attend gun safety training and have a gun, if they desire and have no reason not to own one, issued to them by the government. They must agree not to sale the gun and report immediately a loss or return it if they no longer want to be responsible for it.

December 28, 2011 at 10:55 p.m.

Rolando: Why don't you look up the video and see?

Harp: sounds like Socialism to me. Never going to fly.

December 29, 2011 at 9:06 a.m.
TennRaider said...

The teenage gangs in Chattanooga do not fear the police, the judges, or the courts. But then again, why should they? They are the ones that seem to be in charge of downtown on the weekends. Its sad to see a great downtown area turn into a ghetto war zone.

December 29, 2011 at 3:54 p.m.
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