published Tuesday, January 18th, 2011

Toning it Down

Follow Clay Bennett on Facebook

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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nucanuck said...

And just to get the tone started off well,I want to thank Francis for his many thoughtful respectful posts.

January 18, 2011 at 1:09 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

You called us "THE PARTY OF NO," we didn't, so you need to tone it down, not us.

But hey. No, to slavery. No, to the murder of unborn babies for the convenience of grownups. No, to spending our money and our children's money for wasteful, destructive programs to buy votes. No, to complicated expensive rules that keep bureaucrats employed and producers unemployed. Sometimes No is the thing that's gotta be said.

Want positives? As I keep saying, repent of political sins--and other sins--and follow Jesus, the libertarian, President of presidents.

January 18, 2011 at 1:18 a.m.
trburrows said...

andrew I also would say no to all you quip, plus some. Yes we are the party of no and thank God we are or things would be a lot worse for the people who get out and produce for a living and not suck off the rest of us.

January 18, 2011 at 4:21 a.m.
Clara said...

trburrows,

Oh, go visit a VA facility dumbo! (And I don't mean the main lobby!)

Also get some statistics on what it costs a person making $40,000 a year to support the program.

And then there are the volunteers who do and give extra through the service orgs. to assist programs.

Visit the rehab facilities.

January 18, 2011 at 4:52 a.m.
hambone said...

With the GOP, Yes or No depends only on who is in the White House!

January 18, 2011 at 5:13 a.m.
trburrows said...

clara what on earth are you talking about?????

January 18, 2011 at 5:24 a.m.

I'd like to see thev Republican Party say NO to the vote for people on government handouts.

January 18, 2011 at 6:29 a.m.
fairmon said...

Parents or politicians that never say no will spoil those on the receiving end. Visit the .gov web site and check out all the ways to get freebies. Would it be too much to ask those physically able and receiving these freebies to perform needed community service or charity work?

Demand for U.S. produced goods and services resulting in increased production reduces unemployment, increases the number paying taxes and less dependence on the government.

Increased taxes on high paid executives will not deter any business from progressing. The legislative cost imposed on businesses by local, state and federal governments exceeds 35% and should be reduced if not abolished. The result would be competitive U.S. goods even with the lower wages in other countries. Only a fool would think it is not necessary for a company to include in the cost of purchase the taxes and other imposed cost. Many economist and some politicians in private call business taxes the "fools tax".

The collective experience of managing a meet the payroll for profit business among those in the administration is not enough to operate a lemonade stand and not a lot more experience exist in congress. So their lack of understanding and action is not surprising. They seem to get off track and spend more time on social and political issues than on the economy and peoples opportunity to earn a living.

The fed is trying to avoid deflation and create inflation. Increased employment and businesses competing for people with higher compensation will result in inflation that is much better than the artificial kind being created.

January 18, 2011 at 8:16 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

It took two days to come up with this partisan claptrap? This pointless cartoon will catalyze mostly Dem vs. Rep sniping and very little worthwhile commentary. (Andrew, rolando, harp and Francis excepted).

We have the leader of China going in to visit the presbo and this little dork could not dream up anything clever about that?

I am envisioning this image of a Chinese giant towering over our pint sized commander and chief, and Obama whimpering something about Chinese monetary policy and then a random blurb blaming George Bush.

January 18, 2011 at 8:31 a.m.

BigRidge,

I've been saying the same for many months. Bennett's work is tiresome and unimaginative and if not for the entertaining banter here, then his ratings or hits would be nil.

Really, the TFP could hire a UTC student intern (with appologies to UTC students).

January 18, 2011 at 8:37 a.m.
fairmon said...

I assume everyone realizes that ground hog day and the state of the union address is on the same day. Isn't it amazaing that we look to an insignficant creature of little intelligence for such important prognostication. The other event on the same day involves a ground hog and the weather.

January 18, 2011 at 8:47 a.m.
Francis said...

nucanuk..you and the other libs and socialist elitists on here get back in direct proportion to what you give out. so stop whining. if you take it to a personal level don't expect any respect from me.

regarding todays cartoon....i'm guessing bennett's check is in the mail from the democrat national committee......democrat party good, republican party bad........no talent there...just republican bashing.

hate speech and rhetoric is what you libs label anything anyone says that you don't agree with...........

bennett offers no insight..ever....he only exists to prop up the democrat party........nothing more.

January 18, 2011 at 9:38 a.m.
ibshame said...

"I assume everyone realizes that ground hog day and the state of the union address is on the same day. Isn't it amazaing that we look to an insignficant creature of little intelligence for such important prognostication. The other event on the same day involves a ground hog and the weather."

Ahh so cute. But I thought George W. Bush was no longer the President.

January 18, 2011 at 9:40 a.m.
Clara said...

TP Burrows,

"clara what on earth are you talking about"

The VA is one of those programs you are complaining about. Obviously, you show no discretion in what you attack.

Obviously, you are a political hack and I named you Dumbo for the party you chose to uphold.

Your attack shows your ignorance and shallowness.

January 18, 2011 at 10:13 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

"I named you Dumbo for the party you chose to uphold."

There you go! Exactly what clay must have been looking for! Congrats to you... you good little Democrat soldier!

Republican = Dumbo, Democrat = Supernatural Genius

That is why the Democrats like to declare that "the debate is over". They figure no one of any consequence is willing to debate them. We see it played out in this forum every day. The very first post today led the dialogue with it.

Mindless robots with a weird, misplaced arrogance!

January 18, 2011 at 10:42 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

So much for toning down the rhetoric.

I guess conservatives said 'No' to that, too.

January 18, 2011 at 10:51 a.m.
hambone said...

BRP, Francis, Bookie, Harp, Rolando,

Bennett can yank your chain everytime!

January 18, 2011 at 11:07 a.m.
mymy said...

http://www.drudgereport.com/

O bows to another leader. Surprised he didn't squat down and kiss his feet! What a whimp.

January 18, 2011 at 11:20 a.m.
Francis said...

i challenge bennett to do just one cartoon critical of the obama administration, democrats or the liberal media.

republicans, or non-democrats, have proven on here they can criticize their own or will not limit criticism to one party........democrats are incapable of self-examination....at least not the ones on this forum.

clara...you're a politcal hack....you and the other democrat bootlickers give bennett a reason to get up in the morning.

the way you dems whored yourselves out to your party and the liberal media when they gave the marching orders to attacked palin after the arizona shooting was grotesque and reminicent of a lynch mob. just sickening.

a donkey stampede....

January 18, 2011 at 11:28 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

The party of NO is always the party not in charge. Today, we are the party of NO. In 2013, I believe it will be the demo's that are the party of NO, since I am hoping for a better president. One that actually listens to the people.

It is a pretty lame cartoon. A tribute to MLK, jr would have been nice.

January 18, 2011 at 11:28 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Francis, while I agree with much of what you say, I think you are wrong when you stereotype so much. I know there is at least one on this forum that is capable of self examination, that is lKeith. She is usually very fair when discussing blame or anything else here.

I for one do not like to be stereotyped and try not to do that to others.

January 18, 2011 at 11:34 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

Francis frothed, "regarding todays cartoon....i'm guessing bennett's check is in the mail from the democrat national committee......democrat party good, republican party bad........no talent there...just republican bashing."

Sooo, what are saying Fran? Republicans are the party of Yes? Bennett and the rest of the crazy libs got it wrong? Wasn't John of Orange the guy who stood on the floor of the House and yelled, "Hell NO!"

Thought it was. Saw him on Fox "News." I think that was their lead story that day.

(By the way Fran, stop hitting the 'return' key all the time...you only need to do that to break paragraphs...you're not pounding the Underwood here...)

Appreciate your civil discourse. Look forward to the way you attack corporate welfare, too.

January 18, 2011 at 11:35 a.m.
Francis said...

i think it reveals a great deal that bennett chose to have a cartoon attacking palin and then the republican party on successive days instead of a tribute to MLK.

great tribute, huh............helping to promote the lynch mob approach in the wake of the shooting....

January 18, 2011 at 11:49 a.m.
ibshame said...

"The party of NO is always the party not in charge. Today, we are the party of NO. In 2013, I believe it will be the demo's that are the party of NO, since I am hoping for a better president..."

Yep, pit Sarah "Lady McBeth" Palin with her "blood libel" speeches against Obama and you will be the party of NO in 2013. NO WAY, NO HOW,NOT TODAY, NOT TOMORROW, NOT EVER!!! I can't wait to see how many Republican Candidates for President in 2012 seek out her endorsement to get them into the White House.

January 18, 2011 at 12:05 p.m.
alprova said...

Most people have it all wrong. The think they understand the political climate at the moment, but they do not. For a week, the country spent their time discussing guns and gun metaphors. The business of the people sat on the back burner.

While all of this was going on, the President's poll numbers rose to a 50% approval rating, a first since last spring.

The Republicans and several Tea-Partiers think that they are going to come in and begin to reverse all the progress that has been achieved in the past two years. Although knowing that such efforts will not come to fruition, they will go about wasting the time anyway, grandstanding as if anything they will say will matter to a soul.

What the people are hungry for, and what these emboldened Republicans will fail to deliver, is compromise and an environment where both sides will work together for the nation.

Right now, there are millions of Americans, many of whom voted in some of the Congressional Representatives, who do not want to see Healthcare tampered with, despite Fox News outrageous statement of today, that 90% of Americans want to see it re-written.

There are real problems in this nation, and they do not all surround deficit spending or the national debt. There still people who are trying to survive. There are people still seeking jobs. There are people trying to figure out where they are going to live in the coming weeks ahead. Obamacare is not on their radar screen.

They're just praying that they don't get sick, for with insurance or not, they cannot afford to be sick for a minute.

By all means, let the Republicans roll up their sleeves and waste time attempting to make public statements that people care nothing about. Let them attempt to repeal that which will never be repealed. Obama is still the President, and he too is making some changes as well in the staff who immediately advises him.

Something tells me that the Republicans are going to find themselves embarrassed in front of a nation this time around, if they think they are going to use the President as the scapegoat for lousy legislation.

The Republicans may no longer be the party of "no."

They are however fast becoming the party of rhetorical and repetitive statements.

Most of us have heard 'em all before.

January 18, 2011 at 12:08 p.m.
Clara said...

I'm as non-partisan as they come and I'm not a progressive librul, tea party, rep. I've stated it many times, and acted on it.

If the balance falls against the Reps, it's because they have shown vast ignorance on what is good for most all the people...which is their job if they are elected.

January 18, 2011 at 12:10 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Yes, I believe you’re right Clay Bennett.

It’s become the grand old banana republic . . . the political party of NO solutions.

NO solutions for the job crisis in America. . . NO innovation to nurture new businesses and industries . . . NO solutions for the healthcare crisis in America . . . NO solutions for America’s crumbling infrastructure . . . NO solutions for the problem of global warming . . . NO solutions for the ongoing twin wars in the Middle East.

Of course, they did make a big YES exception in regard to tax cuts for America’s wealthiest 1%.

January 18, 2011 at 12:19 p.m.
acerigger said...

Wow Clay, you really hit A NERVE! The wingers are trampling each other trying to see who's the biggest basher. I'm gonna go buy stock in a company that makes blood-pressure meds! rofl

January 18, 2011 at 12:26 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Lets set some things straight once and for all.

  1. We are the party of No to Big Government. Don’t all of you want that? Government does play a role, but things are getting out of hand.
  2. Numerous posters here, and our Social Democrat cartoonist, are part of the far left wing of the Democrat Party and they are now out of the loop. The party has moved to the right and I can’t believe the far left of the party will be of any factor any time soon. All they have left are forums like this. So draw and post all you want but the far left has become irrelevant.
January 18, 2011 at 12:30 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

WOW Big Al, Thanks for straightening us out. I don't know how I ever had an opinion without you to guide me. (sarcasm off).

Only time will tell my friend, only time will tell.

ibshame, I agree with you regarding Palin. I don't want her to run for pres either.

January 18, 2011 at 12:31 p.m.
rolando said...

This series from another Pulitzer Prize winning cartoonist...no, not our resident version -- although I suspect they may be related...ideologically if nothing else.

As demonstrated and written, it is definitely the Liberals/Progressives who need their ears pinned back and told to tone it down...

http://reason.com/blog/2011/01/17/the-giffords-shooting-as-only

Benson follows the well-established Democrat line and labels everything so his following doesn't have to look up the hard words and identify states, countries, etc...

Here is part of the intro to the cartoons [and the cartoonist]:

quote

It's not that we need more proof that editorial cartooning (with the exception of Reason.com's Bok, Payne, and Stantis) is the lowest of all art forms, but here you go, a week's worth of doodling by the Arizona Republic's Steve Benson, who is, of course, a Pulitzer Prize winner.

On January 9, the day after the horrifying violence in Tucson, Benson crafted a totally typical (read: uninteresting and instantly forgettable) image. Look, it's an old man (Barry Goldwater? No, can't be due to the 'stache and lack of trademark glasses) who's sad.

. . . .

unquote

January 18, 2011 at 12:49 p.m.
rolando said...

Clara -- You failed to note that those in a VA clinic have ALREADY paid their dues...they are hardly sponging off the rest of us. They have quite definitely been there, suffered that for me and thee.

Very poor example to contradict jbburrow's comment concerning slackers...

Reminds me of someone on this forum who said all military retirees became instant burdens on society the day they retired and started drawing their monthly pittance. The person was a confirmed military-despising Liberal/Progressive, of course.

January 18, 2011 at 12:58 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

You conservative, libertarian, republican, whatevers are constantly whining and sometime it just gets too silly.

Boiled down, I think you all could agree with the following statement:

If only that socialist Obama and the Marxist Democrats didn’t hate business so much. If only American corporations were making enough money to pump back into the economy. If only we could remove all those unreasonable regulations Obama has inflicted on our poor corporations they’d be freed up to earn a profit again.

Sound about right? Anything in that statement offend BRP or Francis or Rolando or anyone else?

Okay, according to the Commerce Department, U.S. businesses earned record profits at an annual rate of $1.66 trillion in the third quarter. Corporate profits have been skyrocketing since bottoming out in the fourth quarter of 2008.

So, a reasonable person (not a republican) might assume that with all this profit companies would be busting to hire people, right? Wrong. Hundreds of thousands of jobs have already been outsourced and American corporations are sitting on stockpiles of cash. They are focusing more on the economies of India and China and laughing all the way to the banks that us taxpayers bailed out.

Republicans have opposed every single legislative initiative the President proposed, even those that were originally Republican ideas. No to any measure that might help American workers. No to any measure that might improve the environment. No to everything, even your own ideas.

In the mean time, too many Americans are struggling to just put food on the table and keep a roof over their head.

You'll have to forgive the loony liberals for not joining this latest assault on our "anti-business" President.

January 18, 2011 at 1:02 p.m.
acerigger said...

"Reminds me of someone on this forum who said all military retirees became instant burdens on society the day they retired and started drawing their monthly pittance. The person was a confirmed military-despising Liberal/Progressive, of course" Rol, I'd be very interested to know to whom you refer. C'mon, give us the name.???

January 18, 2011 at 1:04 p.m.
alprova said...

How a Republican lie is constructed;

Republican Lie: "If Obamacare is allowed to stand, 650,000 jobs will be lost. That's according to the CBO. We must repeal this job-killing health care act."

Fact: What CBO actually said is that the impact of the health care law on supply and demand for labor would be small. Most of it would come from people who no longer have to work, or can downshift to less demanding employment, because insurance will be available to them outside the job.

In other words, here is evidence that under Obamacare, no one must be tied to one job for the rest of their life, nor can an employer dangle health insurance over your head any longer. The Republicans have invented a LIE in order to try to kill a very good health care provision that people have wanted for decades.

Most employers don't want to sponsor health care benefits any longer. Obamacare gives them that out. Insurers no longer can force employers to pick and choose whom they hire, based on a prospective employees health care claim history.

House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, and other top Republicans have been spreading the lie that the CBO "has determined that the law will reduce the 'amount of labor used in the economy by roughly half a percent,' an estimate that adds up to roughly 650,000 jobs lost."

The Republican translation doesn't make any sense, said economist Paul Fronstin of the nonpartisan Employee Benefit Research Institute. "People voluntarily working less isn't the same as employers cutting jobs," he explained.

"For example, the CBO said some people might decide to retire earlier because it would be easier to get health care, instead of waiting until they become eligible for Medicare at age 65."

January 18, 2011 at 1:24 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

oh boy.. interpretation of the democrats way according to Al.

people working less and retiring early means less taxes to fund Obamacare. So lets just increase spending!!! hooray for the democrats.

January 18, 2011 at 1:41 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BobMKE said: "Lets set some things straight once and for all. . . We are the party of No to Big Government. . . Government does play a role, but things are getting out of hand. . . The party has moved to the right and I can’t believe the far left of the party will be of any factor any time soon."

I believe it’s important to consider perspective in such matters, BobMKE.

In a country like the U.S. where more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent of the population, what is what is left, what is right, and where is the center - politically speaking? Some specifics for the American citizenry would be appreciated.

January 18, 2011 at 1:42 p.m.
nucanuck said...

Francis,in your 9:38 post you refer to me as a lib and socialist elitest. I find definitions awkward and confining,but I tend to think of myself as conservative. If I have ever expressed,or ever do express thoughts that aren't,tell me why they aren't.

I,of course,am talking about the real meaning of the word conservative,not the political distortions that are so often applied.

This will require some thought. Are you up to it?

January 18, 2011 at 1:46 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "Reminds me of someone on this forum who said all military retirees became instant burdens on society the day they retired and started drawing their monthly pittance. The person was a confirmed military-despising Liberal/Progressive, of course."


Rolando is speaking of me of course.

First of all you whining maggot of a man, I have never, not once, expressed any opinion in this or any other forum, that I despise the military. Why do you lie?

I have ONLY expressed an objection to the way that leaders of this nation use our men and women in the military as pawns in battles where we truly have no business being involved in. War should be an avenue of LAST resort. It has become a way of life.

Rolando, like it or not, you a person who is no longer working for a living and who draws a monthly check. That makes you the same kind of burden on this nation that any other person becomes when they retire, if the Government sends them an income and if they pay for one's medical care.

You are no more "entitled" to that check than anyone else is when they file for Social Security. The vast majority in this country works for what they get. In fact, those who file for Social Security are MORE entitled. Why? Because they paid their own earned money into that system in order to qualify for payments.

I remind you that you have NEVER been a taxpayer in this nation. You have only paid back part of what the true taxpayers have provided to you. You have not created one cent of wealth in this nation. You have been paid from the trough that the taxpayers replenish for you.

Yes, you worked twenty years in the military. You never came close to seeing battle or danger. That you admitted yourself more than once. You put in an additional twenty years in civil service. So what?

Enjoy your benefits until the day you die. But don't think anyone owes you a bow and a licking of your unused combat boots, just because you happen to have worked for a living.

It is your attitude that makes you the leach that you are.

January 18, 2011 at 2 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

rolando, I am one that appreciates your service both military and civil.

I thank you!

January 18, 2011 at 2:06 p.m.
acerigger said...

"GET YER HANDS OFF MY GOVERNMENT CHECK!!

January 18, 2011 at 2:11 p.m.

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." P.J. O'Rourke. Sometimes the compassionate, mature thing to do is say no.

The problem with Obama and big business is that, as with so many other issues, he can't make up his mind if he is for them or against them. He has to publicly take swipes at them because we demand that he do so. Business leaders know that he is obliged to do so. They're simply chagrined that the swipes are becoming actual blows.

Historically the biggest of the big business tycoons support liberals. They like big government programs which require big government contracts. They also like laws which stymie competition from smaller business.

(This article wasn't published in the last 48 hours, so you may or may not find it interesting.) "Can Obama Regain the Backing of Big Business?" By Mark Halperin, Time Magazine, Monday, Jun. 14, 2010 http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1996350,00.html#ixzz1BPoZHPgX

January 18, 2011 at 2:17 p.m.
alprova said...

Nurse wrote: "people working less and retiring early means less taxes to fund Obamacare. So lets just increase spending!!! hooray for the democrats."


If a person is able to afford health care insurance that is not necessarily tied to one job, and if they can even scale back on the hours they must work to live, how is this any burden whatsoever on the taxpayers? Their claims are paid by an insurance company.

Are you for a system that forces people to become slaves to their employers, for the sake of health care insurance? Those days are over. Chances are, you're paying the vast majority, if not all of your health care premiums today. What right do they have to hold that insurance over your head? You're paying for it and it should be yours to keep!

If some of you people were not so easy to be led around by your noses, swallowing the many lies being told by the Republican leadership, you might learn to think for yourself and you might come to understand which political party is working for a nation and which one isn't and never has been.

You're in medical care and you are completely clueless at the moment. You're supposed to know better. Clearly, you have not studied the issue and the solutions on the table, and who has proposed them, acted on them, and will defend them vigorously.

The goal of Obamacare is to provide health care for all. The ideal way in doing that is to find a way to insure everyone, so that they will then have access to health care. It's never been about becoming another entitlement program.

But for any gathering of people to sit and do nothing but to claim that nothing will work and to attempt to dismantle what has been done, is shameful.

Lies are not going to work, for there are too many out here like myself who will expose those lies for what they are, repeatedly if necessary.

Wake up and learn a little.

January 18, 2011 at 2:25 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Nurseforjustice said: “Only time will tell my friend, only time will tell.”

Hmmmm . . . I believe time has told us a lot already, NFJ. It might be your cup of tea preference, but I think it’s unacceptable. This is not the kind of economy and way of life that I will support:

“. . . The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. . .

. . . the United States now arguably has a more unequal distribution of wealth than traditional banana republics like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana.

C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. . .

. . . From 1980 to 2005, more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent.

[Our Banana Repubic – Nicholas Kristof/NYT] http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/opinion/07kristof.html

January 18, 2011 at 2:37 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

As our good friend and co-banter would say, "I don't think so BUB!

YOU are the clueless one.. The only thing Obama wants is to make a mark to say "Wow, Look at what I have done." it is all about him and not about this country. YOU are the one who does not understand what it will cost in the long run. You know it will lead to a one payer society and that is the ultimate goal. If you don't know that, then I am sorry I gave you too much credit.

That will just be another step in the demise of this wonderful country.

January 18, 2011 at 2:42 p.m.
Hoppergrasser said...

acerigger wrote...

"GET YER HANDS OFF MY GOVERNMENT CHECK!!

ace, I feel the same way. I worked for it !¡!

Charlton Heston would say...

"I have only five words for you: From my cold, dead hands."

January 18, 2011 at 2:45 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

So ML, you want to redistribute the wealth I see. Sometimes when you ask for things you get them, and then it is not quite what you expected.. There is a huge price to pay for what you are suggesting.

January 18, 2011 at 2:45 p.m.
alprova said...

50 years ago, yesterday, Dwight D. Eisenhower, a five-star general, and former President of the United States, on January 17, 1961, stated during his farewell speech,

"...In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together..."

"...America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be, instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect..."

"...Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent, I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war, as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years, I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight..."

January 18, 2011 at 3:02 p.m.
mymy said...

Take a break and watch c-span. The debate has started there.

January 18, 2011 at 3:05 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

I agree with the former President and General. So what is your point? Peace has always and will always be the goal. And there are many points in that quote that could lead to a healthy debate. So agian, what is your point?

January 18, 2011 at 3:14 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

Just an economic reminder, NFJ:

70% of our economy is driven by consumer spending.

What moutainlaurel so "socialistically" suggested is that working people have a little more money to spend to help kick start our economic engine.

You can't dispute the fact that the rich got obesely richer. You can't dispute how the economy tanked. You can't dispute anything. You're cool with everything republicans did so your response is to wave the flag of "Redistribution of Wealth!"

Breathtaking. Right now, NFJ, you're running neck and neck with Francis for blithering post of the day.

Good luck! Hope you win!

January 18, 2011 at 3:14 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Well I take that as a compliment, since he often makes more sense than you BW. You are the one on here I read or respect the least. Most of the time you have no idea what you are saying as well.

I am not the one to bring up the economic picture, ML did. I simply stated what I interpreted ML to say. HE/SHE is welcome to counter if HE/SHE likes.

January 18, 2011 at 3:21 p.m.
alprova said...

Nurse wrote: "The only thing Obama wants is to make a mark to say "Wow, Look at what I have done." it is all about him and not about this country."


As silly as that accusation is, I'll be happy to give it the attention is deserves.

At least Obama is trying to establish a legacy of saving lives. Bush made his legacy on the record of deaths of at least a hundred thousand of innocent lives, and the man whom he claimed to be pursuing is still in hiding.


"YOU are the one who does not understand what it will cost in the long run. You know it will lead to a one payer society and that is the ultimate goal. If you don't know that, then I am sorry I gave you too much credit."


More proof that you are not thinking for yourself. That is a completely unsubstantiated argument that isn't even being offered by Fox News anymore. It has no basis whatsoever.

The mandated insurance provision was a Republican initiative, first offered by Senator John McCain on the campaign trail in 2007. When Obama was elected, during the State of the Union speech, he orated that he was "borrowing the idea" from Senator McCain.

It was a good thing then, and now it will lead to the single-payer system of health care? Yeah right...


"That will just be another step in the demise of this wonderful country."


Your objections more than likely stem from the fact that eventually, pricing controls will come into play. You are afraid that your wages will be regulated and controlled.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, it's coming and it's overdue.

What I have never seen from you, is any evidence whatsoever that you have any concern for those who currently cannot afford health care insurance or the cost of a visit to a physician.

Where are your proposals to fix this problem that is absolutely growing day by day? Where are those of the Republicans?

You're so adamant that the Democrats have done nothing that will work, but where is the proof to any of that? It's working as we speak.

You consider people like myself to be purveyors of wealth redistribution. You're right as rain. I'm for a very large redistribution of wealth.

Enough is enough. Call me a Communist and a Socialist all day long. I'm guilty as charged. Tax those above certain levels of income until their eyes roll back in their heads and until they hop up and down and squeal like a pig.

How do you deal with that?

January 18, 2011 at 3:34 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Nurseforjustice said: "So ML, you want to redistribute the wealth I see. Sometimes when you ask for things you get them, and then it is not quite what you expected."

Sounds like you're a believer in double standards, NFJ. Clearly, the evidence shows that it has been the Republicans who have been working to redistribute the wealth in America.

And now with more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes going to the richest 1 percent of the population, it does not bode well for the middle class or the upper middle class or the poor. As such, isn't it only fair that they work to undo what the Republicans have done?

And speaking of expectations, I noted in the news today that it's not just wealth that the grand old banana republicans are working to shift. It appears to be other things as well. May I ask if this is what you've ask of your GOP leadership? Does this meet your expectations?

ALABAMA GOP: “Only Christians Are My Brothers and Sisters” http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/01/new_alabama_governor_only_christians_are_my_brothe.php?ref=fpa

ARIZONA GOP:
“Pushing for Guns on College Campuses” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/17/arizona-republicans-guns-college-campuses_n_809944.html

UTAH GOP: “Child Labor Laws Unconstitutional” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/14/mike-lee-child-labor-laws_n_809100.html

January 18, 2011 at 3:45 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Al,

To me, and you are right, it is MY opinion, but the one payer system is a natural progression. History can often predict the future.

And I don't care what you think about how wonderful Obama was or how horrible Bush was. Your last few statements tells just how sick and idiotic your views are. I try not to get in to name calling but sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade.

I pity you.

January 18, 2011 at 3:53 p.m.
mymy said...

AL: Your statement shows how igorant you are. Enough said!

January 18, 2011 at 4:18 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

To NFJ at 3:53 and mymy at 4:18.

Thank you for your opinions.

As you know, everyone has an opinion.

Some are just bigger than others.

January 18, 2011 at 4:31 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Nurseforjustice said: “The one payer system is a natural progression. History can often predict the future.”

And what does history tell us about human populations that do not have access to healthcare, NFJ. What is the natural progression here? How long do these populations survive?

Every major civilized nation in the world recognizes the need for their citizenry to have access to affordable health care services except the United States. In the USA, the mindset continues to be “profits” for the medical insurance industry OVER the heath and welfare needs of our citizenry.

I believe we should care more for our own. And if the leadership in countries such as Japan, Germany, Switzerland, United Kingdom, France, and Taiwan can provide an affordable healthcare system for their citizenry, why can’t the leadership in the U.S. do it for us?

January 18, 2011 at 5:40 p.m.
fairmon said...

hambone,

Let me assure you Bennett doesn't jerk my chain at all. The fact is I have no respect for either party and I truly believe they are collectively total idiots with no understanding of what is the root cause of the economic dilemma this country faces.

Now, mountainlaurel, annabelle and clara do often cross my eyes with their off the wall comments. I think they must either be school teachers, work for insurance companies or hold a government position.

I think anyone receiving any compensation of any kind from any source, including government, should do some kind of work for it if they are physically able and not confined to a bed requiring constant care. Did you ever notice how some with severe handicaps do all they can and are more productive than some perfectly healthy that only take and take.

I worked two and at times three jobs, attended school, did not travel and take vacations, saved and invested and I do resent it when some here lecture me about how I should pay more taxes and share what I earned. I watched people live high and squander their earnings and now I am supposed to support them. I don't think so. I donate to charities and will do so as long as possible but I have no sympathy for a lot of lazy system users that are not asked to do anything to earn what they are given.

January 18, 2011 at 6:02 p.m.
ITguy said...

Regarding Mountainlaurel's post of 3:37'

I have no problem with people earning and accumulating wealth. I have seen these stats before, and I am lead to wonder why the distribution of wealth has shifted so dramatically. Perhaps someone can offer an explanation.

My theory is this: The majority of the wealthiest in this country are either executives of publicly traded companies, of they work on Wall Street. In either case, their compensation is directly or indirectly derived from the stockholders. And they are screwing us ( I hold several examples in my IRA). I have one stock for a company that is currently in bankruptcy. According to the annual report, the CEO was paid $54 MILLION last year. I lost thousands.

I know that I accepted the risk, and if I don't like what he is paid, I can sell the stock, and all of that free market stuff, but these guys work for the stockholder.

I welcome any comments or other explaination for the shifting of wealth.

January 18, 2011 at 6:54 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

I have to wonder what nurseforjustice stands for. Justice for who? Justice for what?

I am always wary of self named posters who include in their alias terms like "justice" or "patriot". Just as I was wary of people like "canaryinacoalmine" who insinuate through their names they are here to somehow show some type of superiority of patriotism, justice, or to sacrifice themselves by leading us from the darkness, (canary's specialty).

It seems strange that nurse, who apparently deals on a daily basis with the shortcomings of our health care system, cannot even offer a suggestion of how to improve a system that everyone agrees is broken. One has to wonder how many times nurse has seen people seek medical care who had no chance to seek further quality care for their illness for monetary reasons. Or who could have saved tax payer money if they had access to preventative care.

If she is truly a nurse I have to wonder if she has ever seen any of the fraud or abuse by many individual doctors, hospitals, etc. or even cares to acknowledge that it goes on. Please feel free to comment on this as it costs us billions each year in YOUR profession.

But, like the Republican and Tea Party, its much more convenient to bash anyone or just say no to anyone who attempts to stop this madness and provide life saving care to Americans.

But hey, maybe their NO might be in more civil tones.

January 18, 2011 at 7:38 p.m.
alprova said...

Nurse wrote: "To me, and you are right, it is MY opinion, but the one payer system is a natural progression. History can often predict the future."


It's a stupid and unjustifiable opinion. But you know what? Even if you are right, there is no reason to fear such a system. It works well in so many countries.

37 countries, most of which have universal health care systems, have superior records of caring for their people.

The United States ought to be ashamed.


"And I don't care what you think about how wonderful Obama was or how horrible Bush was."


Of that, I have no doubt. You personally should be ashamed.


"Your last few statements tells just how sick and idiotic your views are. I try not to get in to name calling but sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade."


Fine with me. How about you quit trying to pass yourself off as a Christian from now on. You're obviously anything but.


"I pity you."


I don't need your pity. I'll be just fine, even if I die an early death because people like you worship your green God.

I'll be praying for you however that one day, you wisen up before you find out the hard way, that you are so wrong.

January 18, 2011 at 8:40 p.m.
alprova said...

MyMy wrote: "AL: Your statement shows how igorant you are. Enough said!"


And who are you?

January 18, 2011 at 8:41 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Al,

For one, MyMy is not a Communist like you. I admire your truthfulness. You are not ignorant, just naive to think that there is a role for communism in this Country or you're a card caring one and that is scary. You are also proof why the Country is against the far left wing of the Democrat Party with Communists involved. Thank God you are your ilk are now irrelevant not only to the majority of the Country but also the Democratic Party.

January 18, 2011 at 9:24 p.m.
acerigger said...

If I ever decide to be a communist, I wanna be one just like YOU Al!(wink,wink) I don't like to call people names but, bob, yer a putz.

January 18, 2011 at 9:49 p.m.
SavartiTN said...

Troll said: "a donkey stampede...."

I would prefer that to an elephant stampede.

January 18, 2011 at 10 p.m.
rolando said...

alprova sez something about how wrong I am and called me any number of names, Liberal-Progressive style...as I knew he would.


So, ace, is it safe to presume that he answered your question about his identity? I figured the comment would bring him out of the woodwork, spittle flying...and it did. His original comment was a bit before your time here, I believe...but was just as vitriolic.


Now since alprova is the whole of the a$$ and not just the front part, let's develop his gripe a bit.

He is now literally cursing every breath a retiree takes -- and that's not just military people...it is everyone who ever paid into a retirement account and had their employer also contribute to it. That's ANY employee and ANY employer...the UAW member and GM, for instance. Since GM is government owned and controlled, last count, the government is paying their retirement much as it pays military retirement.

Our fiat money is all printed by, distributed by, collected by, and finally, returned to the government for destruction. That money ALL belongs to the government from beginning to end. Those of us who actually work or worked for it were given temporary use of it...that's all.

To say that because some collect their fiat money direct from the government and some collect it through an intermediary is to deliberately make believe they are one of the elite or somehow "special"...well...they ARE short bus special, perhaps. That goes for those who claim that those who use "customers" for their intermediaries are somehow different, too. [And no, that is NOT a slam against those who run businesses, large or small.]

I averaged about 60 hours a week over my working life, not counting the 25 years of active duty military when we were literally on duty and subject to call 24/7. We were salaried...just like the military...or Congress. That's not exceptional...just the result of an ordinary sense of duty and a certain measure of honor.

January 18, 2011 at 10:06 p.m.
canarysong said...

ITguy & mountainlaurel;

I share your concern.

The disparity in the distribution of wealth in this country that you refer to has become markedly more pronounced in the last decade. It's likely to become much worse now that the supreme court has declared corporations to be "persons", thereby lifting former limits on campaign contributions.

It's amazing how the party of big business has convinced "the average Joe" that it somehow represents his/her interests. What a con job, They must be laughing their heads off!

hotdiggity, re:7:38 post

Canaries never willingly sacrifice themselves and neither did I. I was chemically poisoned against my will. The only thing my username "insinuates" is that, despite tragedy each day is new and fresh and there are still reasons to sing. Like you, I chose something upbeat.

January 18, 2011 at 10:11 p.m.

"People like YOU are the cause of my problems, and YOU'RE what's wrong with the world." "If it weren't for YOU and [insert politician, party, or ideology], people could live free, prosper, and be happy and healthy." "The rich are the problem." "The Commies are the problem." "It is the TONE of your rhetoric." "You're stupid." "No you are." "I'll be glad after the next election. YOU and people like you will finally get what's coming to you. And the world will be set aright." "No' is such a NEGATIVE word. Why do people like you use it so much? The public square is no place for vigorous debate and policy disagreement. What is this country coming to?"

We are what's wrong with the world. I am what's wrong with the world.

Thank you for your service (military and otherwise) to our country rolando.

January 18, 2011 at 10:16 p.m.
acerigger said...

The myth of 'American exceptionalism' implodes

Until the 1970s, US capitalism shared its spoils with American workers. But since 2008, it has made them pay for its failures by Richard Wolff as pulished in# guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 18 January 2011 13.00 GMT every poster on this thread would learn a lot by reading this article. jes sayin'

January 18, 2011 at 10:19 p.m.

And politicians in bed with big business really are part of the problem. (I'm not being sarcastic here.)

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1996350,00.html

January 18, 2011 at 10:23 p.m.
rolando said...

Thanks for your kind words, whats_wrong_ and Nurse4justice. Been a long road that many have walked...and I have walked with giants.

January 18, 2011 at 10:25 p.m.

"Economics is the measurement of how human nature affects the material world. The market is 'heartless.' So are clocks and yardsticks. Saying that economic problems are the result of the free market's failure is like gaining twenty pounds and calling the bathroom scale a bum ...

"Economics is not zero sum. There is no fixed amount of wealth. That is, if you have too many slices of pizza, I don't have to eat the box. You're money does not cause my poverty. Refusal to believe this is at the bottom of most bad economic thinking." - P.J. O'Rourke

I would add that it is a near universal temptation, and it is a cause and symptom of some of our vices. Including mine.

January 18, 2011 at 10:36 p.m.
Clara said...

Harp,

Such assumptions by you are truly laughable and I see no need to answer. I'm sure mtnlaural and Annebelle will feel the same. I certainly do not feel the need to justify my existance to YOU.

A critic of character and behaviour is not your strong point.

January 18, 2011 at 10:57 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

ITGuy said: "I welcome any comments . . . for the shifting of wealth."

I’ve read several articles discussing the theory you expressed in your post. The most interesting appeared in the Atlantic some time ago. You may have read it already, but if not, it’s very informative:

“The Quiet Coup” by Simon Johnson

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/05/the-quiet-coup/7364/

Also, Johnson has written a new book - "13 Bankers" - that has just been released. It discusses “the rise of concentrated financial power and the threat it poses to our economic well-being.”

January 19, 2011 at 12:33 a.m.
nucanuck said...

ml,

I had hoped Simon Johnson would be appointed to an important economic post in the current administration.

He and Elizabeth Warren get it,whereas Geithner is little more than a toady for the financial sector and Summers,an arrogant defender of the deregulation from his Clinton days.

Missed opportunities at a time we can ill afford to miss them.

January 19, 2011 at 1:31 a.m.
fairmon said...

Clara,

Thanks for proving my point. I didn't request you or anyone else to justify anything. I did not question your character or behavior or that of annabelle and ml. This comment fits the mold where it appears you speed read but not yet good at it. Where in the post did I assume anything? I apologize if I offended you in any way. Just because I don't understand or am not intelligent enough to interpret some of your post and opinions or if I don't agree doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading them.

January 19, 2011 at 2:41 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

Moutainlaural, thanks for the link. Every since the days of JP Morgan our country has had less to fear from Democrats or Republicans than of the financial industry.

While the political parties squabble they are continuing to destroy our country. The financial companies have no loyalty to country since they can turn to other countries to continue their pillage.

And yet we have no one but ourselves to blame. We have allowed the deregulation, tax breaks, incentives, and bailouts that give them no reason to change their ways.

We have been largely silent as a conservative Supreme Court bestows continued citizens rights to corporations, allowing unlimited influence through unlimited funding in our campaigns. "We the people" has become "We the corporations".

After we bailed them out and invoked meaningful regulation, they thank the American tax payer by refusing to loan, raising their fees to cover any cost of regulation, and returning to business as usual. Business as usual means setting up their next Ponzi scheme bubble for which they will again be bailed out.

The ultra rich and financial institutions have laid waste to the country and average Americans for well over 100 years. Are we so ignorant that we are scammed by them time after time and allow the huge redistribution of wealth to the top that we are now currently seeing?

We are truly a gullible, compliant nation, distracted by mundane squabbling, while the true enemy lines their pockets. Even knowing that the financial institutions laid waste to us recently, you are sure to see a move to weaken or remove the regulations that were put in place to stop this abuse.

And the cycle will start once again.

January 19, 2011 at 2:44 a.m.
fairmon said...

Alprova, could it be the people in those 37 countries take better care of their self? I already resent higher premiums that are to a large extent caused by inactive obese and morbidly obese individuals with no self discipline and eat like an idiot. others run to the Dr. or ER without good reason and many are more demanding than those paying.

I do think it inappropriate for providers to charge some more than others for the same service due to negotiated rates by medicare or insurance companies. There should be a set fee, set by the provider, for every service that is charged a patient. No exceptions unless the fee is changed for everyone.

High risk individuals such as sky divers, motorcycle riders, poor driving and injury records, DUI convictions and drug offenders are examples of those that should pay a higher premium.

I don't think government should be able to require anyone to purchase anything. I would agree to lift the law that requires providers to provide care to anyone showing up. Those opting to not have health care run the risk of being denied care and the risk of death if seriously injured or ill.

January 19, 2011 at 3:09 a.m.
acerigger said...

Even knowing that the financial institutions laid waste to us recently, you are sure to see a move to weaken or remove the regulations that were put in place to stop this abuse.

And the cycle will start once again. Username: hotdiggity | On: January 19, 2011 at 2:44 a.m. Those moves are happening. Rep. Michelle Bachman(R)and her "tea-party caucus", are determined to roll back newly passed financial reforms, along with healthcare reforms. Rep.Darryl Issa(R),new chair of the Congressional Oversight Committee,actually sent out letters to businesses asking which regulations his committee should investigate! No surprise that the majority of their campaign contributions are from the financial sector.(only two examples) With these foxes guarding the henhouse don't expect too many eggs to make it down to the public.

January 19, 2011 at 5:33 a.m.
Sailorman said...

Ahhhh yes - that evil tea party trying to undo all the good stuff. Blind ideology is an ugly thing.

"The two top recipients are Sens. John McCain and John Kerry, both previous failed presidential candidates. Six of the top 20 career recipients currently serve on the Senate Banking Committee. These include chairman Chris Dodd and ranking member Richard Shelby and Sens. Chuck Schumer, Robert Menendez, Evan Bayh and Kay Bailey Hutchison."

http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2010/04/05/top-20-recipients-of-finance-campaign-contributions-in-the-senate/

January 19, 2011 at 6:11 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

In our current state, after disassembling the American Experiment and replacing it with an overreaching socialist government that has constructed dangerous ties to banking and private industry (approaching the Fascist model), it seems interesting to see so many here declaring this as evidence that American Exceptionalism is a falsehood, or that Capitalism in America is a failure or the root of all of our problems.

We have ALREADY been turned into a bloated, awkward socialist state that does not know how to manage itself with a government system that was not designed to be so intrusive. I would submit that any observations about the current state of affairs need to be laid at the feet of progressives. It is like a self fulfilling prophecy; the foundation has been half removed and is in the process of crumbling. In a situation like this should we be taking a sledge to the remainder of the foundation or be trying to repair it?

The Republicans at least have the sense to say NO to the sledge hammer. Now all we can do is hope they do not pick up one of their own, again.

January 19, 2011 at 6:22 a.m.
ITguy said...

ML,

Thanks for the link, very interesting. I wonder what would happen if the brightest students decided to go into engineering, or medical research instead of banking. I wonder what would happen if that creative energy was focused on truly creating wealth and not on accumulating wealth that others had created. If Steve Jobs had decided to be an investment banker, would the iPad exist today?

Our incentives are screwed up.

January 19, 2011 at 6:36 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

The article by Simon Johnson is interesting, but dated. Methinks nucanuck makes an important point. People like Johnson are not in charge in the current administration and the nepotism lives on, at an accelerated pace and level.

January 19, 2011 at 7:12 a.m.
Clara said...

MtnLaural,

Thanks for the Atlanta article.

As dumb as I am about high finance, some of it seeped through anyway. I am forwarding it to people much more capable of understanding high finance who might be able to help me grasp it more intelligently.

I've bookmarked it,too,as a reference.

January 19, 2011 at 9:27 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Ho Hum. Where is the suggest removal button for this repetitive drivel?

January 19, 2011 at 9:50 a.m.
ITguy said...

Since the Republican party gained control of the House, they have read the constitution, and now are going to vote to repeal Obamacare. Both are symbolic gestures that accomplish nothing other than to pander to their base.

I am wondering how long it will be before they propose meaningful legislation. They ran on the platform of opposing Obama and all that he represents. They offered no new ideas during the campaign. Are they now capable of presenting any new ideas, or will they continue to obstruct, oppose and stall hoping to regain the Presidency in 2012?

In the mean time, China is rapidly becoming both a Military Superpower and an Economic Superpower. If we are going to continue to be 'exceptional', we need start to address the many problems that our country faces, and start to come up with real solutions.

January 19, 2011 at 9:55 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

BigRidge, your comment about "disassembling the American Experiment" is exactly what I am talking about. I assume you are in part talking about the system of capitalism.

When the rich and corporations through their wealth and influence corrupt the principles of capitalism then the system ceases to benefit both the nation and individuals.

When the financial and other interests continually defraud and abuse the system through their ponzi schemes, abuse the tax system, ignore the system of supply and demand through speculation in commodity trading by bidding up futures, outsource American jobs while receiving tax breaks to do so, use their influence to keep wages low, demand to be bailed out time after time from their own mismanagement, use their influence to weaken regulating their abuses, etc. then yes, the "American Experiment" is failing our country.

Our middle class is not being destroyed through progressive ideas but by a system that allows the upper strata to benefit from our system at the expense of the middle and lower classes. I assume you are a student of history so you can find dozens of instances of this throughout history. You need go no further than our own history to recount the robber barons, the Great Depression, Savings and Loan crisis, internet bubble abuses, and the current recession created by the financial institutions.

These abuses resulted in bailing out the people responsible with tax payer dollars and wiping out millions of Americans accumulated wealth. And yet some people are still against any regulating of these obvious abuses.

It may give some people a warm fuzzy feeling to wave the flag of "American Exceptialism", with the inference that our system is the best in the world, but if we continue to allow abuse at the top to destroy the middle class then we will go the way of other great societies which allowed the rich to hoard the wealth while ignoring the lower class which provided their wealth.

Of course many people believe this could not happen to America because we are "exceptional" This belief is nothing less than a divorce from reality and history.

January 19, 2011 at 10:59 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Libertarianism (less and less government) carried to it's extreme reaches anarchy.

The right amount of government is so subjective as to be undefinable. Each of us has a different opinion.

How do we reach that balance that creates and maintains a healthy society? I believe we start by listening.

January 19, 2011 at 11:45 a.m.
delmar said...

It is very disheartening, ITguy and hotdiggity, to see the apathy for the deterioration of the middle class which is displayed in politics. I believe it isn't anything new though. I have an impossible ability to even try to understand greed. I was raised to have compassion for people who aren't as fortunate as I may be and to help out whenever possible. The mantra of our society seems to be - I don't care if my neighbor gets ahead, I just want him getting ahead of me. I understand the thinking of some folks wanting to get rid of government handouts but I can't agree with them. I do agree with prosecuting the abusers of these programs.

One thing I am sure everyone can agree on is that there are no easy solutions but standing around sniping at one another will never accomplish anything. This rant is not directed at any one person and I will admit I am, at times, one of the people sniping.

January 19, 2011 at 11:52 a.m.
mymy said...

Food for thought.

Re: the film Generation Zero

The film examines the causes of the economic collapse of September 18, 2008. The film surmises that the Greatest Generation, in their effort to prevent their children from having to suffer the horrors of The Great Depression and World War II overly nurtured and protected them, unwittingly instilling in them an outlook of selfishness and irresponsibility. The Greatest Generation also put into place many institutional protections against the kind of financial recklessness that led to the Great Depression. After they all retired and died, the documentary alleges these protections and rules were gradually removed or ignored, and the financial crisis of 2008 happened as a result of the next generation's selfishness and irresponsibility. It suggests the generation that grew up as the hippies of the 1960s eventually came to power and promoted their outlook upon the financial markets, taking reckless risks -- because having enjoyed prosperity all their lives, they believed there could be no downside to their decisions.

January 19, 2011 at 11:53 a.m.
Francis said...

alprova....now that you admit you're a communist......that explains a lot.

feel free to move to cuba or south korea.....i think china is becoming more capitalistic...so you might not like it there.

communists serve no purpose in a representative republic except to illustrate what hypocrites they are.

it also explains your arrogance and monumental stupidy.....communisim has failed and will continue to fail....it's dopes like you who believe some day, some day the perfect commumist state will become a reality.

so get the hell out this country or move to chicago or somewhere in illinois where confiscation of income has been taken to a new level

January 19, 2011 at 12:08 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "He is now literally cursing every breath a retiree takes -- and that's not just military people...it is everyone who ever paid into a retirement account and had their employer also contribute to it. That's ANY employee and ANY employer...the UAW member and GM, for instance. Since GM is government owned and controlled, last count, the government is paying their retirement much as it pays military retirement."


Is that what I am doing?

You are the one who thinks your poop doesn't smell and that you are 100 times better than everyone else who depends upon a check each month from the Govt.

You don't see that your attitude is the problem, but I am betting that everyone else does.

The point you have never, ever been able to grasp my little troll, is that your service to this nation does not make you any more or less entitled to what you draw per month, than anyone else in this nation who has ever drawn from the trough.

No need to justify what you are paid and to quantify it.

You Sir are no better than anyone else. Get it?


"I averaged about 60 hours a week over my working life, not counting the 25 years of active duty military when we were literally on duty and subject to call 24/7. We were salaried...just like the military...or Congress. That's not exceptional...just the result of an ordinary sense of duty and a certain measure of honor."


Whatever Rolando. At this point in your life, despite anything you did, you are no better than anyone else who depends upon the Govt. The taxpayers don't care what you did for a living, nor how much you worked. Like it or not, you are just another of the millions who draw a check for your sustenance and add to the burden of Medicare.

You only demean yourself when you rail on the Govt. I've been trying to get you to understand that for two years.

You are no more deserving than anyone else for anything you receive. They earned theirs too. And even if they didn't, it makes no matter to me and so many others. Get that?

I don't care how much you think you deserve or earned your goodies at the twilight of your life. They get them too, over and above your silly objections and insistence that you are better or more deserving than they are.

Get it or don't get it you idiot. I don't care. But don't you dare sit there and state that I despise the military, for that is merely another of your long-toothed lies that you just don't seem to be able to refrain from telling.

I don't even despise your sorry hide, but I have zero respect for you, because you are so utterly and willingly untruthful so consistently.

January 19, 2011 at 12:30 p.m.
alprova said...

Francis wrote: "alprova....now that you admit you're a communist......that explains a lot."


Why would you act as if you are surprised? You've been calling me worse descriptives for months.


"feel free to move to cuba or south korea.....i think china is becoming more capitalistic...so you might not like it there."


If that is your belief, then you truly are a lost cause. I have friends who reside in Hong Kong and who have for years. You have no clue what you are talking about.

That aside, nobody has put you in charge of the guest list of this nation and I earned my citizenship the same way you did and many years before you did.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, as am I.

I consider you to be a blooming idiot, who has less than a one-track mind, but I would never ask you to leave this country. We need more like you to be so bold, so that people can see what you are made of, and how utterly unintelligent you are.


"communists serve no purpose in a representative republic except to illustrate what hypocrites they are."


I would ask you to explain that, but I wouldn't want you to waste any more of the three brain cells you have left.

You couldn't begin to prove me a hypocrite.


"it also explains your arrogance and monumental stupidy.....communisim has failed and will continue to fail....it's dopes like you who believe some day, some day the perfect commumist state will become a reality."


You're like everyone else who cannot separate a little Communism or any amount of Socialism from tyranny. I urge you to do some research.

Communism and Socialism works very well in many countries across the Earth. Tyranny is what will never survive. Eventually people do get pissed off with being subjected to it.


"so get the hell out this country or move to chicago or somewhere in illinois where confiscation of income has been taken to a new level"


I'll live where I want and you'll have nothing to say about it. I own all of my property outright with no encumbrances whatsoever on so much as a square inch of it. And so long as I pay the taxes assessed it each year, that will remain the case.

January 19, 2011 at 1:11 p.m.
acerigger said...

Chill Al, DFTT!

January 19, 2011 at 1:42 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

I submit that the start of the transfer of wealth from the middle class to the upper class began with the systematic dismantling of America's labor unions.

If any of you remember TV in the 50s and 60s, or if you get TVLand, you'll see how life used to be. Dad worked and made enough money to buy a house, a car, and feed & clothe his family. Mom stayed home and raised the kids.

'Father Knows Best,' 'Ozzie and Harriet,' (although nobody really knew what Oz did for a living - he walked around all day wearing a cardigan), 'Leave It To Beaver,' and so on. Those weren't fantasy programs. That was a window into American life.

Unions enabled workers to earn a fair wage and take the family on a two week vacation every year. With the idea that a rising tide raises all boats, union wages had an upward affect on all wages. With strong middle class buying power the American economy expanded.

Not with booms or busts. Steady growth.

But Republicans managed to drive a wedge into the working class. Instead of telling workers they were entitled to a fair wage, they argued that union workers were fat and overpaid, that there were COMMUNISTS, that they were dragging down the economy.

Some people who should have known better started asking, "Why is that union guy making two or three times more than I am? He shouldn't make that much."

Republicans managed to get us to fight each other and the battle still wages today. If you go back and read these posts you'll see the same lie that it's okay to be rich, even when that wealth comes at the expense of everyone else.

Divide and conquer. It's a sage military strategy and worked well in politics, too. Does anyone even remember why we celebrate Labor Day every year? Anyone?

January 19, 2011 at 2:01 p.m.

20% more humility today than yesterday. Way to go.

David Brooks recently had a good column on the social and political importance of having a healthy sense of our own sinfulness. Perhaps something like the modesty of our grandparents could help us say "No, thank you" to those who seek political gain by stroking our egos and playing on our sense of entitlement and our need to vindicate ourselves at someone else's expense. Or with a louder bullhorn.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/opinio...

January 19, 2011 at 2:32 p.m.
alprova said...

It's funny as can be that there are people around who think that calling someone a Communist or a Socialist is going to cause them to become upset.

It's high time that this nation returns to a balance of Capitalism to Socialism or Communism.

It used to be that employers paid a living wage to their workers. They offered them benefits to keep them engaged and loyal, as blackwater48 wrote.

Right now, employers know they have the upper hand. It never lasts very long. In time, people will have choices again, and they will make them. I pity those employers who have been playing games with the lives of employees over the past couple of years, paying those rock-bottom wages and offering no benefits at all. They will get theirs, in spades.

There are about a half-dozen employers in this area that are going to have to relocate or that will either be forced to pay a decent wage, or that will go out of business.

For the life of me, I'll never understand those who will exploit workers, regardless of the circumstance, rather than to build a loyal workforce by treating people as human beings.

Of course, there are also those workers out there who are their own worst enemy too, and people can say what they want about union workers, but they show up every day, do the work they are supposed to, and they rarely quit or are fired for cause.

If only unions would learn to rise to the plateau and stay there, rather than to consistently get a taste of power and go on to attempt to raise the bar all the time to get more and more.

January 19, 2011 at 2:33 p.m.
canarysong said...

Hotdiggity; re 10:59 post,

Thank you for articulating such an important point so well. Everyone should read that post again.

While we bicker among ourselves, while we call each other names, while we look for some "other" to blame -communists, illegal immigrants, a socialist fascist Muslim Kenyan black(gasp!) president- large corporations and their CEOs are drawing their biggest profits ever. For them it is very useful for the American public to be distracted by issues like DADT, the "dangers" of same sex marriage, and the "evils" of stem cell research. It gives them more time to line their bulging pockets. Meanwhile, people are losing their jobs, their savings, their homes, and their health insurance.

re today's cartoon:

Not only is respectful discourse the right way to treat one another, it is the only way we are going to be able to solve our very serious problems. When one one person shouts, calls names, or blames then the other person immedietely feels defensive and the ability to hear what is being said evaporates. Do we want to score points, or do we want to be understood? We can all learn from each other, even from those with whom we disagree. But we have to stop attacking and actually LISTEN to each other. Not necessarily easy for any of us, but the clock is ticking on so many important issues.

January 19, 2011 at 2:33 p.m.
LibDem said...

blackwater48: My father-in-law supported a stay-at-home wife and raised 4 children as a union worker. Were he around, he'd remember Labor Day.

January 19, 2011 at 2:36 p.m.
Francis said...

you may not consider it an insult, alprova...you can be proud of it if you want..

...but it does bring up questions about your lack of moral compass, common sense, lack of empathy for those who work hard for their money and obssession with controling people..

it speaks to your profound lack of respect for freedom and justice.

you can't be a communist and be an american.

you big government lovers/communists/socialists/taxaholics/entrepenuer haters/haters of free enterprise and business are the dullest people in the world....you have no pioneer spirit. you want to be taken care of....you want someone to take care of your every needs....you don't take chances...you have no imagination.......you're envious, jealous and want to punish those who've been rewarded for hard work by becoming wealthy......you want guarantees and feel you're entitled....you're spoiled and arrogant.

you and others like you on this site don't even deserve to be called americans...you poo poo small business and those that want to be independent.....you ridicule those who want government to just do what they're supposed do and not be a nanny...

government..government..government....blah..blah..blah....screw it.

communisim is evil because it supresses freedom and leaves no room for the individual.

you're a commy slug......if you slugs had your way we'd have a country full of dullards who spend all their time marking on their calenders when when they plan to have medical procedures done in 20 years. anything for security......really living be damned...

beat it....move to norway..or sweden..or whatever.

go share a flat in london with fellow american hater julian assange..

January 19, 2011 at 3:51 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

ITguy and Hotdiggity:

Very informative and well thought out posts in regard to the abuses involving the financial sector.

Indeed, it is mind boggling that some people continue to argue against regulating any of these abuses. It doesn’t take much in the way of common sense to see what would happen in the abuses continued – What is it? Do they want to see the U.S. go bankrupt.

January 19, 2011 at 3:56 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Alproval said: “It's funny . . . there are people . . . who think that calling someone a Communist or a Socialist is going to cause them to become upset.”

Especially when it’s not relevant. I noted earlier on this thread that someone called you a communist in regard to your perspective on healthcare, which made absolutely no sense to me.

There are very few Communist countries around, and with the exception of Cuba none of these Communist countries appear to have good health care systems. So what was their point?

January 19, 2011 at 4:05 p.m.
delmar said...

Nobody wants big government, but it has become a necessary evil for some regulations to be born in order to keep this country from spiraling down into the abyss of greed and apathy. Rules and regulations are put in place to protect us from ourselves. I will grant you that some administrations have taken this a bit too far(Patriot Act), but for the most part, most are needed.

January 19, 2011 at 4:08 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Username: hotdiggity | On: January 19, 2011 at 10:59 a.m. "Our middle class is not being destroyed through progressive ideas but by a system that allows the upper strata to benefit from our system at the expense of the middle and lower classes."

One of the very few legitimate functions of just government (IMHO) is to keep order and stop or discourage citizens harming others in order to benefit themselves. I support that function of government if it is executed in the form of punishing people for stealing from others for their own benefit. That would include Wall street.

If you are saying that in order to gain ridiculous amounts of wealth you must have taken it at the expense of others, then I do not agree with you. I reject the notion that in order to accumulate unusual levels of wealth you must have done it at the expense of others and as such society is entitled to confiscate disproportionate amounts of wealth from you.

Progressives seem to confuse illegal activity like stealing with wealth accumulation. In the process they will justify empowering the government to steal from one citizen to give to another citizen. The activity that would be illegal if the citizen was to do it themselves is made legal when the government does it. Justice is perverted, law is made corrupt and morality looses its compass.
The next thing you know you have people rioting in the streets (Greece, United Kingdom…) because they are loosing access to other peoples wealth. This is all the evidence I need to understand how dangerous and destructive progressive ideas are.

January 19, 2011 at 5:31 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Blackwater48 said: “the start of the transfer of wealth from the middle class to the upper class began with the systematic dismantling of America's labor unions.”

Along with the blantant abuses that have occur within the financial sector, the dismantling of labor unions in the U.S. does seem to be a contributing factor.

If you've not read it, there was an interesting article several months ago in Slate by Timothy Noah that discusses this “wealth transfer” issue and the dismantling of unions in the U.S.:

Noah brings up some good points in the article, including some fascinating info pulled from a book, “Were You Born On the Wrong by Continent,” by Geoghegan:

“German firms . . . don't have the illusion that they can bust the unions, in the U.S. manner, as the prime way of competing with China and other countries.

It's no accident that the social democracies, Sweden, France, and Germany, which kept on paying high wages, now have more industry than the U.S. or the UK. . . That's what the U.S. and the UK did: they smashed the unions, in the belief that they had to compete on cost.

The result? They quickly ended up wrecking their industrial base. Geoghegan's book went to press too soon to report that Germany is now experiencing a recovery that’s leaving the United States in the dust.“

“The United States of Inequality” by Timothy Noah http://www.slate.com/id/2266025/entry/2266026

January 19, 2011 at 5:48 p.m.
delmar said...

BRP - "The next thing you know you have people rioting in the streets (Greece, United Kingdom…) because they are loosing access to other peoples wealth."

I would be more apt to believe - "The next thing you know you have people rioting in the streets (Greece, United Kingdom…) because they are loosing access to THEIR wealth."

January 19, 2011 at 5:59 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

BigRidge"Patriot" wrote, "I reject the notion that in order to accumulate unusual levels of wealth you must have done it at the expense of others and as such society is entitled to confiscate disproportionate amounts of wealth from you."

The whole Wall Street banking fiasco was perpetrated at the expense of others. Do you ever think about what you are saying?

Why did taxpayers have to bail AIG, Bank of America, Capital One, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, GMAC, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, or SunTust (just to name a few off the top of my head)?

Were they the victims of some terrorist attack? Some evil hacker break through their firewalls?

Only the suckers that screwed up and believed them, invested in them, well, they took it in the shorts.

On top of that, those greedy SOBs got to keep the money and pay themselves big fat bonuses!

Nothing illegal because they owned the lawmakers. Obama and the Democrats tried, with varying degrees of success, to impose regulations to prevent the foxes from raiding the hen house again.

But the Republicans have gained control of the House and have already contacted Wall Street business leaders to find out which regulations they'd like to see rescinded. Maybe pass some more 'greedy SOB friendly' regulations.

Since your premise was completely false the rest of your comments were null and void.

January 19, 2011 at 6:21 p.m.
nucanuck said...

BRP,

The US tax system pre 1980 seemed to keep a balance. We had a healthy middle class and the rich often had to work long and hard to get that way. In the 1980s and 2000s we cut taxes,mostly in the higher brackets,and increased withholdings,moreso on the lower brackets.

During those same years middle class wages stagnated while upper incomes soared. We now have 100 million people,1/3 of our population,at or below the poverty line. At the same time we have created an uber-rich class that achieves almost instant wealth after receiving an MBA from one of about six schools.

A good friend of mine used to say,"I like rich people,I like how I live when I'm around them". I agree with that,but when a country loses it's middle,it's becoming a sick society.

For thirty years the middle class wealth has been redistributed through tax changes that had kept a reasonable balance for decades,leaving them poor and with a massive concentration of wealth in the hands of a few.

We all want a healthy USA,but it is going the other way.

I would like to hear what you think might help the middle class and whether you think the middle class is key to regaining our economic health.

January 19, 2011 at 6:47 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

Nucanuck -

I'll save BigRidge"Patriot" the time. This is how he answered me when I asked him to please be specific about a topic that he ultimately couldn't defend:

"I have no point that I am willing to specifically spell out for “you”. I also take great joy in never answering the question that “you” would like to drag me to. So, I suggest, my dear angry friend, that you do not hold your breath!"

Your welcome, Mr. "Patriot."

Anybody know why BRP put quotation marks around the word, you?

Bizarre.

January 19, 2011 at 7:26 p.m.
Clara said...

I guess, blackwater48, he did that instead of using capitals?

January 19, 2011 at 7:46 p.m.
Clara said...

Wasn't it Wendell Willkie that wanted "One World"? It seems that in my youth, that was the answer. Yup! Here it is from Wikipedia.

"Wendell Lewis Willkie (pronounced /ˈwɪlki/; February 18, 1892 – October 8, 1944) was a corporate lawyer in the United States and was the dark horse Republican Party nominee for the 1940 presidential election. A member of the liberal wing of the GOP, he crusaded against those domestic policies of the New Deal which he thought were inefficient and anti-business. Willkie, however, waffled on the bitterly debated issue of intervention in or isolation from World War II, losing support from both sides. His opponent Franklin D. Roosevelt won that election, with 55% of the popular vote and 85% of the electoral vote. Roosevelt found Willkie to be compatible politically with his plans and brought him aboard as an informal ambassador-at-large. Willkie criss-crossed the globe, bringing home a vision of "One World" freed from imperialism and colonialism. His liberalism lost him supporters in the GOP and he dropped out of the 1944 race, then died of a heart attack. He never held political office."

I guess it came too close to Communism.

But I remember my Lutheran up-bringing and it seemed that, like the Catholic Church, they wanted the whole world one way...Christian.

But I was 16-17. What did I know.

January 19, 2011 at 8:18 p.m.

Down to 10% and spiraling downward.

January 19, 2011 at 8:50 p.m.
Clara said...

Sheesh! If Al is a Communist, I'm ___. Fill in your choice. Did I miss something somewhere?

January 19, 2011 at 8:52 p.m.

Speaking of barbaric industries in desperate need of regulations:

(AP) "Pennsylvania Abortion Doc Killed 7 Babies With Scissors" http://hosted.ap.timesfreepress.com/dynamic/stories/U/US_ABORTION_CLINIC_INVESTIGATION?SITE=TNCHA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

It happens on a daily basis. What few regulations exist rarely get enforced, so rarely does the perpetrator get caught. The victims are among the most vulnerable in our society. Where is the indignation over something like this?

January 19, 2011 at 9:15 p.m.

I think I hear crickets chirping.

January 19, 2011 at 9:43 p.m.

Okay. Okay. I'll tone it down. Strike "barbaric." Insert "cruel."

January 19, 2011 at 10:03 p.m.
acerigger said...

Aint this been a Long and Interesting thread?? Have we toned down the rhetoric??

January 19, 2011 at 10:19 p.m.

Good questions. Thank you.

January 19, 2011 at 10:23 p.m.
Sailorman said...

blackwater

Your post at 6:21 was outstanding - hit the nail on the head. The thievery on Wall Street should have put them all in jail along with congress. You were great right up to the part where you started the partisan cr*p. If you actually believe both parties aren't partners in crime, well I'm at a loss for words.

NC

The middle class would indeed be the salvation of this country. I'm afraid it may well be too late. If it's not, it's getting very close. Congress and the administration, whichever party is in power, is certainly the most visible tip of the problem. The ones I worry about belong to the rapidly increasing army of bureaucrats. I guarantee we could find a regulation somewhere that would make us both criminals - and that's criminal.

January 19, 2011 at 10:25 p.m.
mymy said...

A question for all the Obamacare supporters who don't have a clue how much bad stuff is in it.

I'm watching the segment on the ObamaCare repeal vote. No one is talking about the 3.8% Medicare tax on all unearned income that kicks in 2013 that was part of the bill. The implication is all pensions, VA disability payments, interest, dividends and God-knows-what-else will be taxed to support Medicare. That's after cutting half a billion from funding.

This is crazy and little by little the bad is coming out!

January 19, 2011 at 10:32 p.m.

"PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- A doctor whose abortion clinic was described as a filthy, foul-smelling 'house of horrors' that was overlooked by regulators for years was charged Wednesday with murder, accused of delivering seven babies alive and then using scissors to kill them.

"Dr. Kermit Gosnell was also charged with murder in the death of a woman who suffered an overdose of painkillers while awaiting an abortion.

"In a nearly 300-page grand jury report filled with ghastly, stomach-turning detail, prosecutors said Pennsylvania regulators ignored complaints of barbaric conditions at Gosnell's clinic, which catered to poor, immigrant and minority women in the city's impoverished West Philadelphia section.

"Prosecutors called the case a 'complete regulatory collapse."

January 19, 2011 at 10:37 p.m.

Come on. Find a way to blame it on Wall Street.

January 19, 2011 at 10:39 p.m.
rolando said...

Yes, alprova, that is exactly what you said in your last rant.

Not in those exact words, perhaps, but you made it exceedingly clear that, down deep, you despise anyone receiving an income from the government. Which includes all those receiving extended "unemployment" payments, Social Security, low cost housing, child care, etc etc -- you know, all those people you Liberal-Progressives fall all over yourselves kowtowing to [except for the Social Security recipients].

It appears you don't like the government taking and spending YOUR money for the homeless, et al...n'est-ce pas?

January 19, 2011 at 10:39 p.m.
acerigger said...

Rolando,I sometimes think you're a reasonably smart guy, but sometimes I think you just-don't-get-it.

January 19, 2011 at 11:07 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

Sailorman liked my Wall Street rant "right up to the part where you started the partisan cr*p. If you actually believe both parties aren't partners in crime, well I'm at a loss for words."

Can't totally disagree with you, but Republicans have already started to roll back Obama's regulations that were already watered down.

Democrats might be in bed with big money, but they are more discreet. They hook up in the sleazy motel on the way out of town. Republicans gleefully hop into bed with those pigs in store front windows with the lights on at noon and call it fund raising.

I wrote, "Obama and the Democrats tried, with varying degrees of success, to impose regulations to prevent the foxes from raiding the hen house again."

I'm hardly a Democratic apologist, and I'm not thrilled with the President's economic advisors past and present.

Maybe you're right. Maybe an empty gesture is no gesture at all.

Maybe an empty gesture is the quintessential definition of vacuous.

But Republicans are PROUD to be Wall Street whores, so that tips the scales for me.

January 19, 2011 at 11:27 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Blackwater said: “But Republicans have already started to roll back Obama's regulations that were already watered down.

Yes, the collusion between the Republicans, the bankers, and Wall Street has become rather blatant. Have you seen the new Republican logo? It’s a banana.

January 20, 2011 at 12:08 a.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "Yes, alprova, that is exactly what you said in your last rant.

Then Rolando wrote: "Not in those exact words, perhaps, but you made it exceedingly clear that, down deep, you despise anyone receiving an income from the government..."


Do you see any problem at all with what you wrote up there?

If if it were true that I wrote that I despised anyone, and that it is "exactly what I said," then you would be able to quote the wording that proves I wrote it, especially since it supposed to be contained in my "last rant."

You're a complete idiot, a total troll, and a pathological liar to boot.


"Which includes all those receiving extended "unemployment" payments, Social Security, low cost housing, child care, etc etc -- you know, all those people you Liberal-Progressives fall all over yourselves kowtowing to [except for the Social Security recipients]."


I suppose if I were to challenge you to post any wording that proves that I take issue with anyone who draws the above, you're going to post the proof that I have ever stated such a thing...right?

You're lying and everyone knows you are. Who do you think you are fooling? No one.

Pointing out the simple and undeniable fact that because you draw a check from the Government and that you are dependent on the taxpayers of this nation for your medical care, is not even close to expressing any sentiment that I despise or resent anything.

It has always been about trying to make YOU understand that you are sucking from the teat of the Government just like everyone else who is walking around in shoes like the ones you wear.

What you did to earn those checks is meaningless at THIS point and time. Others have worked their buns off too. Some might have even put in more hours than you did. Some might have even put in more years than you did.

You are a burden on the taxpayers of this nation, plain and simple. That does not mean that I despise you, Troll. I'm sorry that you can't grasp simple facts and accept certain realities.

Here...maybe this will help. In 17 years, I too will belly up to that trough and will demand my check and Medicare each month, because I too will have earned it and will have paid into the system for 51 years.

I too will then become a burden on the taxpayers. Do ya' get it now?


"It appears you don't like the government taking and spending YOUR money for the homeless, et al...n'est-ce pas?"


No. The only thing apparent is that you are a pathological liar.

You can call me Communist and a Socialist all day long, but what you can't accuse me of, is adopting the kind of self-loathing rhetoric that you have expressed in this forum time and again.

None of what you accuse me of ever came from my fingertips, you pathetic liar.

January 20, 2011 at 12:23 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

Mountainlaurel, I have not been sleeping well lately and you are to blame.

Since you began writing about Banana Republicans it is difficult for me to watch TV coverage of John Boehner or Eric Kantor or John Kyl or Mitch McConnell etc., etc., without imaging them all wearing a silly uniform.

It's a garish thing, red in color and adorned with ridiculous gold epaulettes and big brass buttons. Each proudly sport a chest full of medals and ribbons, too, clownish things in a rainbow of colors. All carry side arms in holsters with an AK-47 slung over a shoulder rakishly.

In one recent nightmare I was watching them "Pledge allegiance to the flag, of the banana republic of America, and to the Companies, for which we stand, one Corporation, under God, with profits and bonuses for all."

I only sleep in short bursts now before another nightmare rises up, each more frightening than the last.

So, thanks for that.

January 20, 2011 at 1:40 a.m.
Sailorman said...

Blackwater

I'll certainly agree that the Republicans are no where near as effective at covering it up Wall Street money.

"Democrats have an edge when it comes to raising funds in lower Manhattan, and particularly from Goldman Sachs"

"The financial sector has given $11.1 million to the Democratic National Committee and its two congressional campaign committees so far this election cycle, compared to $7.3 million for Republicans, according to OpenSecrets.org. Goldman has given about 70 percent of its donations to Democrats this cycle and gave 75 percent of its $6 million in donations to Democrats in the 2008 election."

http://reason.com/blog/2010/04/20/republicans-democrats-politici

January 20, 2011 at 7:25 a.m.
rolando said...

No p-roblem at all, alpo. You said it and are too much of a Lib-Prog pantywaist to step up to it. It is obvious you flat-out despise any retired person. Period.

You keep your crap on tap, alpo...so quote your exact original post wherein you made derogatory mention of my military retirement, no cherry picking, please. Cite the original cite...

January 20, 2011 at 7:49 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Blackwater48 said: “I have not been sleeping well lately and you are to blame. Since you began writing about Banana Republicans it is difficult for me to watch TV coverage of John Boehner or Eric Kantor or John Kyl or Mitch McConnell etc., etc., without imaging them all wearing a silly uniform.”

Oh dear . . . I’m sorry about the loss of sleep, Blackwater48. If it helps, I’ve been told the banana republicans are only wearing little gold banana lapel pins for the moment.

It’s my understanding that John Boehner tried to order some uniforms, but the funds weren’t approved; hence, the tears that Boehner has been shedding recently.

January 21, 2011 at 12:56 a.m.

Down with the conservatives and up with progressive values and ways for the future of this country.

January 25, 2011 at 5:27 p.m.
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