published Saturday, July 2nd, 2011

Grecian Urn

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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BigRidgePatriot said...

Good lord, isn't Bennett hitting a little close to home with this one? All you have to do is put the face of iBama on the archer and the USA on the neck of the vase and you have our appropriate parallel.

Is this going to be his Independence day cartoon or will he slip another one in Sunday?

July 2, 2011 at 12:03 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

WRONG AGAIN, CABIN BOY

The archer is John Boehner who, as the republican speaker of the house, has implied that it would be entirely right and proper for the government to default on its debt obligation and shut down entirely. Heck, at republican rallies, that's known as 'the applause line.'

How do you blame Obama? How do you negotiate with someone who is not interested in reaching a settlement? The last serious budget negotiation saw both parties, represented by Vice President Biden and congressman Kantor, working out the details on a deal that was comprised of about 85% spending cuts and 15% in higher tax revenue. Those are important percentages to note because they reflect the conclusions of a study from the conservative think tank, the American enterprise institute. AEI stated that historically, nations that found themselves in an economic crisis had the most success with the 85/15 plan. As soon as the democrats agreed to it Kantor walked out and announced the new GOP plan was for 100% in spending cuts.

It is obvious to sane people that republicans are working just as hard as they can to prolong the economic hardship all the way to the 2012 election. They think it's their only chance to beat Obama, and that's what all of this is all about.

If they have to default on our debts or shut down the government, well, that's a price they are more than willing to pay.

You see the philosophy playing out in States across the Nation. The new republican governors and legislatures cut taxes for the rich and corporations, then were shocked, SHOCKED to find a budget deficit, and then proceeded to balance the budget by outlawing public sector unions, laying off teachers, firemen, and policemen, shutting down libraries, so and so forth.

Right now the state government of Minnesota is shut down because republicans won't agree to a slightly higher tax rate on citizens who make over $8 million per year. They would rather abolish unions, lay off state workers, make it harder to vote, and attack planned parenthood.

These knot headed tea baggers are outraged, OUTRAGED, at the idea of reducing the tax deduction on private jet aircraft or eliminating the $5 billion annual tax payer subsidy for big Oil companies.

If that's your argument for building a stronger America, getting more people working, and starting to pay down the debt, shut the hell up. I'm fed up with the phony outrage, the lack of clarity, and the willingness to mindlessly mumble GOP talking points without a clue as to what they mean.

Every time conservatives speak you'd think the American poor and the middle class are living the great life and the beleaguered upper class folk are barely eking by with their regulatory shackles and assaults by the fascists anti-colonial commies.

Check, please!

July 2, 2011 at 12:53 a.m.
alprova said...

Bravo Blackwater48, bravo. That was a masterpiece and it outlined the current situation ongoing to a "T."

Wow!

July 2, 2011 at 1:08 a.m.
trburrows said...

bw and just what is wrong with what you are gripping about. All that sounds good to me.

July 2, 2011 at 1:22 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

BACK AT YOU, AL

I know you've had to do lots of the heavy lifting around here. I try to chip in what I can when I can but don't always have the time. Some of these people sit on this site like they're hourly employees. My wife and I were just talking tonight about, 'what happened to June?

Anyway, thanks for the kind words.

July 2, 2011 at 1:28 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Well said BW!

But I must say that I often wonder whether a messy ouright default might be less bad than the long drawn out money printing,dollar devaluing back door default that seems to be the "other " course.

Just as in Greece, some form of default seems inevitable, so why not default from today's hole rather than digging deeper? If you believe that there is no credible formula that will avoid default, maybe pulling the plug, even if it is being done for political reasons rather than the national economic health, might be the better course.

July 2, 2011 at 1:53 a.m.
328Kwebsite said...

Why not default? Well, have a look at time when several countries have defaulted.

Mexico. Re-valuation of the peso. Do you want more pesos now? Yes, but no. Yes, you might want a different number of pesos; but, no, you're probably not storming down to the bank to get a piece of some Mexico action.

The Marshall Plan. Probably the largest mass default ever. Pay attention because failure to understand this point led a lot of Republicans in the Bush administration to actually believe that "war is good for the economy." Well, one time war was good for the economy: the US economy. That time was when many countries around the world, destroyed by combat, all had to default on their debts at the same time. England, France, Germany, and a myriad of other countries had to simultaneously default and forgive their debts to one another. The US was not immediately affected, hadn't sustained a bunch of war damage to the extent most other countries had, and ended up coasting to a profit advantage while other nations were rebuilding. This led to a temporary competitive advantage in the marketplace, combined with genuine progress, when coupled with some platitudes about American exceptionalism, led some people to believe "war was good for the economy." Most of those folks were not in places destroyed by war.

Getting the countries to all default and forgive at the same time was one of the leading components of the Marshall Plan for post-WWII reconstuction.

We don't have a big network of countries with the same problem. Instead, we infected a bunch of countries with our unethical, and possibly illegal, business deals. Why should they forgive us for breaking our own laws to the point it caused a serious global economic crisis?

The Marshall plan has also been one of the few times, ever, that a default hasn't resulted in an increase in physical destruction of civilization. Most of the places that were defaulting were already a pile of rubble in nations worn out from combat.

Our people get ticked if the Internet is down. We're in no condition to go around defaulting. Many of the things we'd need to do to toughen up to survive a default would be the same types of things that would have avoided creating a default situation in the first place. Savings, hard work, ethics: we got rid of those with the repeal of Glass-Stegal.

Most of our country's financial laws are predicated on the concept of personal interest, that people will personally take an interest in the business deals they make. Defaulting is not an example of ethical business practices. It's an example of denying personal interest. That line of thinking got us into this mess in the first place. More bad business deals will not erase Wall Street's bad business deals.

Creating equity is a better path. That means, get American manufacturing back up and rolling. Actually create new observable wealth by refining goods and providing services.

July 2, 2011 at 4:48 a.m.
328Kwebsite said...

Here's another famous default for all you Civil War buffs: the Civil War.

How's that Confederate money holding up? Not too good.

Reichsmarks. Worthless.

Deutchmarks. Replaced by the Euro.

Any trade deal made in a place later conquered in war: now worthless.

Notice also there's one more trend here: the emotional stench of defeat on post-default, useless money. Wars are a leading cause of national defaults; and defaults and debts are often a predicating condition for being a victim of war. Conditions that lead to default are not seen as an investment opportunity by outside buyers. Instead, they are likely to stay away longer, spending elsewhere, until the situation restabilizes itself. That reconstruction only goes slower when people don't cooperate. The rich stay rich, and the newly defaulted stay poor.

When we default, we're claiming that we're too poor to do anything. The rest of the world is likely to take us at our word, and treat us as though we are too poor to pay our bills.

It's not a good business plan.

The only demonstrated way to default successfully is to default as a group of trading nations, like in the Marshall Plan. In some ways, votes of confidence in buying each others' money are miniature forms of forgiveness for the past day's idiocy. Yet, to get a big forgiveness to take place, pretty much everyone had to suffer so much they were willing to try anything to survive, including not punishing those they hated. Last time, it took WWII. That was with WWI in living memory.

We haven't had a peaceful time when so many people owed so much money they could not pay back. It's a Baby Boomer invention.

Usually, conditions like these mean a nation which cannot pay its debts is ripe for invasion. The resulting assault historically has resulted in the enslavement of the populace. Japanese and Chinese conflicts in Manchuria, for example, would be one example. A lot of colonization efforts could be another.

By forcing the assumption of so much debt as to try to create a permanent debtor economy, the Bush administration probably weakened our national security by creating conditions that increase the likelihood for foreign invasion.

All in, defaulting is a bad idea, in peace or in war, because it makes our country and its markets look too weak to be adult.

July 2, 2011 at 5:03 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Yeah to the cartoon, and better drawing than some. And as BRP pointed out (and WSJ or NR online), factor in our unfunded mandates and the US is as badly off as Greece--real debt over $ 100 trillion, 9xGDP or so. Unsustainable, with enough blame to go around. Blackie and his fans admitting we need 85% or so spending cuts? OK, after defense, what would y'all cut?

July 2, 2011 at 6:34 a.m.
Reardon said...

Default is not always a bad idea -- but an underlying change in monetary fiscal character has to come along with it.

Lots of people are underwater in their mortgage payments for, perhaps, years if not decades. Many had bought their homes at the top of the market, being the last to hold the bag. There was a trend for a while to send the keys back to the bank, and willingly let the bank foreclose on the house.

You also have to consider many companies go bankrupt to dislodge obligations to become more financially solvent, yet still have an underlying competitive advantage in the market place. So bankruptcy can be a strategic tool to regain an edge (albeit a last-resort option).

The US still has a 300 million person tax-base after default...

Even more so, you must consider those who buy our bonds, aren't necessarily forced to do so, and do so voluntarily. If our balance sheet looks bad, and they understand the financial situation we face, and they still loan to us...

July 2, 2011 at 6:49 a.m.
jimbob said...

Great post BW. Happy 4th every one.

July 2, 2011 at 7:52 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

"some people sit on this site like they're hourly employees"...good, gosh...you got to be kidding, bilgewater....you live here......what a hypocrite...

look to the states...the federal government can learn from the various ways state legislatures and governors are handling these tough times. conservative governors and legislatures, that is..mostly.. although, some democrat governors, like former governor phil bredeson, are smart with money. usually states with liberally dominated legislatures are a disaster.....california..minnesota....

the democrats should have nominated someone like phil bredeson for president..or vice president at least in the last election...that's more of what was needed....instead of the retarded joe biden. probably the biggest dumb *** to ever hold public office.

ibama..that's a great one, bigridge...perfect...

blackwater...again with the corporate jets? there're whole industries that revolve around corporate/ private jets.....not just the manufacturing of them,..but servicing them, manufacturing parts for them, all the sub contractor involved with the manufacturers of parts for them...cleaning them... the products made to maintain them.......you have any idea how many people are employed by companies that are involved with corporate jets? not only that , they're used for all kinds of charitable reasons...........

your posts are just one long republican party bad-democrat party good/capitalism bad and socialism great rant.....

it's boring ....just like you statists' vision......as dull, bland and hopeless as the look on obama's face......the dull look of trapped animal.

July 2, 2011 at 7:54 a.m.
ITguy said...

It is a beautiful Saturday morning. The previous 14 posts have pretty much exhausted this topic. Go out and get a life people.

July 2, 2011 at 8:04 a.m.
mymy said...

The PROGRESSIVES are out to destroy America and turn her into EUROPE... That's NOT the America I grew up in, is it yours? REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER 2012...

July 2, 2011 at 8:13 a.m.
dude_abides said...

They're "starving the beast" BW, and as long as they have ignorami like seamonkey that don't know what's good for them they will succeed. It's like a political Stockholm Syndrome. Like the dickhead testimonials you find on websites selling goods or services you know to be garbage. These minions cannot afford to admit they are wrong about anything. If I were wealthy I would sit and laugh at them doing my bidding for me like a band of Chihuahuas running around proclaiming the justness of my raping of the economy. I guess you could say they're fed 'barking points'. lol

July 2, 2011 at 8:41 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

remember you libs, july 4rth is independence day...not dependence day........take the weekend to think about it. god bless america!

July 2, 2011 at 8:42 a.m.
miraweb said...

It's pretty simple math. One default equal three to five million lost jobs, shuts down the remainder of the credit market, stops social security and military salaries, and throws the first light of the housing recovery into the chipper. That's all worth a friendly little game of D.C. chicken, right?

July 2, 2011 at 9:03 a.m.
tderng said...

miraweb...default does NOT stop S.S. payments.It does NOT stop essential government workings.What it will stop is things like government run Parks and Recreation.Government run museums and other non-essential government workings.As far as the Military wages go,the congress can easily vote to pay our forces in the military,they were getting ready to do that when we were threatening to default last time.

I just don't understand the mindset that thinks that we can just spend,spend,spend and somehow miraculously get out of debt.I do believe that in the end it will take huge spending cuts and a reduction in tax loopholes for ALL Americans. FAIR TAX ACT!

July 2, 2011 at 9:29 a.m.
rolando said...

Good 'toon, Clay. Most appropriate, too, since we are headed in the same direction.

Our drunken spending simply cannot continue...

Just as [good 'un, BigRidge] iBama's release of a day and a half's worth of oil was "a drop in the bucket" [if you will], taxing the "wealthy" won't do it.

When they leave the country with what little they have remaining here, what then? Tax those making $100k? $50k? When over half the country steals from the other half, pretty soon there is no "other half" worth taxing.

And that is where we are headed, plain and simple.

Save yer paper money, boys...the USA will rise agin!

July 2, 2011 at 9:29 a.m.
Clara said...

Thanks, BW!

You are one of those who speak sense on this blog and said it better than I could have ever done.

July 2, 2011 at 10:24 a.m.
rick1 said...

What happened to the suggestions made Obama's debit commission from last year? Democrats controled both Houses the first two years Obama held office and refused to address the debt ceiling and to pass a budget. Blame Obama, Reid and Pelosi and the stimulus that failed miserably and has contributed greatly to the debt Obama has imposed since taking office. Bush was not entirely without fault in his last term and should have used his veto pen more on the budget. Reid and Pelosi had control of both Houses during Bush last two years the House is where the budget bills start. Don't forget when Obama was a U.S. Senator he was voting for these budget increases that the left blames Bush for while he was in office. For those who place all of the blame on the republicans is nothing short of being disingenuous and shows you are not capable of intellectual thought.

Democrats and those on the left talk about Cantor leaving the debit talks but fail to mention about Obama refusing to meet with republicans. According to The Hill: The White House has rejected Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell's (Ky.) invitation for President Obama to meet Thursday with Senate Republicans about their position on the debt-ceiling talks. White House press secretary Jay Carney said McConnell was asking Obama to visit and "hear Republicans restate their maximalist position" "We know that position. That's not a conversation worth having," Carney said. at his daily briefing.

Why isn’t anyone questioning why Obama gave the tax cuts to corporate jets in his stimulus bill now he is attacking them?

Enough on the class warfare and how the last 30 years has destroyed the middle class. The following are key findings from a study from the Treasury Department from 1996 - 2005 on income growth in this county so stop the class warfare

Income mobility of individuals was considerable in the U.S. economy during the 1996 through 2005 period with roughly half of taxpayers who began in the bottom quintile moving up to a higher income group within 10 years.

About 55 percent of taxpayers moved to a different income quintile within 10 years.

Among those with the very highest incomes in 1996--the top 1/100 of one percent--only 25 percent remained in the group in 2005. Moreover, the median real income of these taxpayers declined over the study period.

The degree of mobility among income groups is unchanged from the prior decade (1987 through 1996).

Economic growth resulted in rising incomes for most taxpayers over the study period:

Median real incomes of all taxpayers increased by 24 percent after adjusting for inflation;

Real incomes of two-thirds of all taxpayers increased over this period; and

Median incomes of those initially in the lower income groups increased more than the median incomes of those initially in the high income groups.

http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/hp673.aspx

GOD BLESS AMERICA and HAPPY 4TH

July 2, 2011 at 10:25 a.m.
tderng said...

rick1...please no facts please!Do not use government statistics to refute the lefts beliefs!Hurry ,Hurry leftists put your head back down in the sand before reality emerges into your minds.The treasury department is just a bunch of rich right wing conservatives trying to change OUR "facts".DO NOT LISTEN TO OR READ THIS REPORT!!!!!

July 2, 2011 at 10:35 a.m.
rick1 said...

tderng, this cartoon shows how Obama is working on the economy.

http://www.americanthinker.com/cartoons/

July 2, 2011 at 11:53 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Both the Democrats and Republicans are responsible for getting the US into a debt crisis that is similar to that of Greece. The Republicans are at least pretending they are ready to mend their ways and deal with the problem. The Democrats are still playing politics and trying to do nothing other than gain political advantage and power at the expense of the citizens. You know the motto, “Never Let a Good Crisis Go to Waste!” If there is no crisis, Create One.

July 2, 2011 at noon
SeaMonkey said...

great post, rick1

i think that was rham emanuel's quote. another good one is, what's bad for america is good for the democrat party.

it is true that both parties are responsible for this mess. in my view, democrats created the mess and republicans just stood by and watched, hoping that it would go away...or too scared of being disliked to do anything about it. they've both failed.

July 2, 2011 at 12:54 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

SeaMonkey said...

"What's Bad for America is Good for the Democrat Party."

That very true quote needed to be set apart in its own line for emphasis. The Democrats should be ashamed of themselves.

July 2, 2011 at 2:47 p.m.
rolando said...
July 2, 2011 at 3:09 p.m.
fairmon said...

FDR and the sitting congress started it. He was so popular with people believing they could receive without giving that every congress and administration since to gain popularity and votes have added to the problem. Without having the world's reserve currency we would be worse off than Greece. They don't have the option of printing money to buy their own bonds to keep their interest rates low. At the current rate of debt increase and decreasing value of the U.S. dollar it will cease being the reserve currency and if you don't know what that brings you would be wise to learn.

July 2, 2011 at 4:21 p.m.
alprova said...

tderng wrote: "rick1...please no facts please! Do not use government statistics to refute the lefts beliefs! Hurry ,Hurry leftists put your head back down in the sand before reality emerges into your minds."

A report that covers the years 1996 - 2005 is quite useless. Beginning in 2006 is when things started going bad, or do neither of you remember it?

From 2006 - 2008, I, along with all other investing Americans, lost 40% of the value of our investments, personally knocking me down a peg or two. Losing my cushy Corporate CPA job in January, 2009, that paid me six figures, because my wife had some residual medical needs that they claimed cost them too much, knocked me into the lowest tax bracket.

Now I've climbed back out of the hole a bit over the past couple of years, and I'll be alright. I paid for my home and properties years ago. I always have a backup plan.

That report ending in 2005 addresses none of what happened since then at all. Frankly, I laugh at the fact that you introduced it into the conversation at all.

The explanation as to why all went well for those years is simple. The time bombs ticking in the stock markets had not gone off yet. The housing bubble was about to burst. The malfeasance by those who were selling mortgages to flippers, five at a time no less, had not come to light. And mortgages that people were about to walk away from were being paid on time.

Nice try though. I'm sure some of you right-wingers still think the Republicans did no wrong.

The nation knows who is forcing this to become a Mexican standoff and it sure isn't the Democrats. The Republicans are holding firm on not raising taxes on the rich and they can no longer deny it.

I'm glad to see the President dig in his heels this time. He's right to do it. He'll win before it's over too.

July 2, 2011 at 5:38 p.m.
miraweb said...

tderng -

Actually, there are statements that the government plans to delay Social Security and military salary payments to keep the credit markets from going wild.

See: http://www.theledger.com/article/20110702/EDIT01/110709941/1398/sitemaps04?p=2&tc=pg

July 2, 2011 at 5:45 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "I'm glad to see the President dig in his heels this time. He's right to do it."

It is just this kind of thinking that threatens to bring this country to its knees economically. Don't do anything about the debt! We'll tax our way out of it!

Hopefully there are not enough mentally deficient voters in this country to allow iBama to continue his reign of terror past 2012.

July 2, 2011 at 5:48 p.m.
miraweb said...

Cute slogans, BRP, but not linked in any way to reality. $400 billion in military cuts are already in motion. When Bush came to office the entire Pentagon budget was less than $400 billion. Iraq, alone, has been costing that much each year. As states are cutting their matching funds for nursing homes and health care, the federal burden is cut as well - sometimes as much as 9 times as much. We need fewer talking points and more actual work being done. Congress has scheduled itself a week off in the middle of all this. Unemployment is one thing - but a little golf and work on the tan are priorities, too!

July 2, 2011 at 6:02 p.m.
carlB said...

What Do We Want To Happen To Our Republic?

At this particular period in the United States’ history, what do the voters/people really want to happen to our Republic? Their “wants” appear to depend on which political agendas and the ideological agendas, of the different people who are in control/power along with the “wanta-bees” who want to get back in control.
Are the USA consumers helping create manufacturing jobs here, when we continue to have nearly a $48.2 billion dollar trade deficit per month ($578 billion dollars per year) buying the imported goods of the global corporate monopolies? Therefore if we do not have an increase of the private sectors creating manufacturing jobs here, with our workers producing and manufacturing goods, getting our middle class tax base back, while decreasing the volume of imported goods, we might need to start an organized downsizing of our over paid elected "leaders." Especially if the elected leaders allow this Republic to enter into another “great depression” after helping to cause the loss of our manufacturing base and the associated jobs to the “free trade” lower monetary value countries.
Just as is being done with the higher paid employees of private companies, they are "fired" by their employers and the new employees, if any are hired, are only paid a half to three quarters of the amount the older workers were paid. If the private workers and the Public Service workers cannot continue getting their higher wages and benefits, then how can our elected “leaders,” lobbied to and working with the corporations to depress the American workers, expect their same wages and benefits to continue when there are insufficient monies collected for paying them without increasing the total National Debt? There are not easy solutions in getting our private sector jobs recreated here. Too many people are against everything President Obama is doing and have only a single thought. That is of getting him out of office as if that would solve all of the Nation’s problems. We have not seen the worst of what the conditions could be. Will it be “class warfare” or middle class? If the Republicans had won the 2008 Presidential election, would the USA be in another "great depression" at this time? This Republic had been in a deep recession since 2007, would the Republicans have continued spending the needed money, in addition to their $700 billion dollars-plus of borrowed, unfunded bailout of the fraudulent financial systems? Then when President Obama wanted the “stimulus recovery plan” money to stabilize the effects of the recession, the Republicans had strong differences against how Obama was treating the 2007 deep recession. Of course, most of those anti Obama people are trying to convince the voters that his plans for spending any money for stabilizing the effects of the recession are completely wrong. It will very important for the Democratic voters to get involved in the 2012 elections.

July 2, 2011 at 6:52 p.m.
miraweb said...

An excellent analysis of what happens in a default from a former GHW Bush Undersecretary of Finance.

http://www.bipartisanpolicy.org/news/press-releases/2011/06/bipartisan-policy-center-releases-new-analysis-debt-limit

July 2, 2011 at 7:29 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

FUNNY YOU SHOULD BRING THAT UP

Rick wondered, "What happened to the suggestions made (by) Obama's debit commission from last year?

It all started when seven republican senators introduced a bill and called on the President to back their plan to form a bipartisan commission to explore responsible solutions to the federal deficit. When Obama said he thought that was a great idea all seven republicans, original cosponsors of the bill, quickly changed their minds and started railing against any bipartisan bill that explored deficit reduction.

You would have heard more about it if the press was paying attention.

Anyway, Obama went ahead and formed a bipartisan commission by executive order setting off yet another firestorm accusing him unconstitutional power grabbing.

You heard too much about that because the press loves to cover republican press conferences.

The resulting Simpson/Bowles Commission submitted their findings on December 1, 2010. Among their suggestions:

Reducing Social Security payments to the well-off

Limiting mortgage interest and charitable donations you can write off

Higher gas taxes

Cutting the number of overseas military bases by 30%

So you tell us, Rick. What do you suppose happened to the suggestions made by bipartisan debt commission last year? One thing is for sure:

If the President is for it, the knot headed tea bagging obstructionist republicans will be dead set against it. Even if it was their idea to begin with!

Demonic-ocracy in action!

July 2, 2011 at 8:09 p.m.
carlB said...

What is wrong with these Republicans? Do they not realize that there cannot be the "quick fix" from the conditions we are in? Cutting the spending they want to cut without creating the needed manufacturing jobs will only result in driving this Republic into another great depression. What are the private global corporate monopolies and the US consumers doing to recreate jobs here in the US to prevent another great depression­? We already know what the president'­s opponents are doing to hinder the needed recovery. After the eight years of the last administra­tion's more than doubling the total National Debt to $12.0 trillion dollars, they now want to suddenly shut off the "big government­'s" necessary spending for stabilizin­g the 2007 deep recession and helping get the "private sectors" to bring their manufactur­ing plants back into the USA. I cannot accept our elected leaders and the capitalist working together to cause the destructio­n of our middle class tax base and then letting the upper income corporations get away with not paying their fair share of taxes from the profits made by importing their goods into the US.

July 2, 2011 at 8:51 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

boy, the idiots are out in force tonight!

July 2, 2011 at 10:26 p.m.
carlB said...

Mixed economy http://en.­wikipedia.­org/wiki/M­ixed_econo­my There is not one single definition for a mixed economy,[2­] but the definition­s always involve a degree of private economic freedom mixed with a degree of government regulation of markets. ----------­--------- standard of living http://www­.answers.c­om/topic/s­tandard-of­-living ----------­----------­--------- How many of the people on this board have an idea of how far the decrease could go and what the conditions would be when the bottom has possible been reached? the private capitalist have taken or have not taken along with the leadership of our politician­s that have caused or allowed this Republic to go through our latest changes, setting up the conditions we are now having to deal with.

July 2, 2011 at 11:03 p.m.
alprova said...

The creepy guy, AKA the Burp Man wrote: "boy, the idiots are out in force tonight!"

Yep. That's what just about all idiots, who never recognize themselves as being idiots, say when they have nothing to add to a conversation.

Feeling a little left out in this one, are ya? It's okay. Clay will post a less complicated cartooned issue up for discussion and you can get back to cyber-bullying him again real soon.

What a (cough)...man you are.

July 3, 2011 at 12:43 a.m.
rolando said...

Just to keep in the spirit of this thread, I will play the straight man and speak to Greece's debt and Clay's cartoon about it:

[Drum roll] So what's a Greek urn? [badda-boom]

July 3, 2011 at 4:32 a.m.
rick1 said...

Al- That report ending in 2005 addresses none of what happened since then at all. Frankly, I laugh at the fact that you introduced it into the conversation at all.

I introduced this report because there are those on the left who have accussed the republicans of destroying the middle class over the last 30 years. This was to show that is not true. Don't just look at the past few years Al where both parties had a roll in this crisis look at the big picture.

July 3, 2011 at 8:19 a.m.
rolando said...

Big pictures that distort their personal agenda do not appeal to LibProgs, rick1.

July 3, 2011 at 9:38 a.m.
tderng said...

rolando...probably gonna be a drachma again soon...

July 3, 2011 at 10 a.m.
rolando said...

I remember -- and spent them -- when they were 40 to the dollar, tderng. I have no idea where they are today. Sigh. Also the yen at 360 [my 30-cent 100 yen coin is now worth a dollar. Marks were 4 for a dollar.

We keep going and we will be in the crapper with the Greeks.

July 3, 2011 at 4:08 p.m.
fairmon said...

carlb,

Be awwre that profits from imports return to the country of origin and are not taxable profits in the U.S. This includes international companies doing business in other countries. The debt was around 7 trillion when Obama assumed the throne. It is now 14 trillion and growing at a rate of forty two cents for each dollar spent. Nothing will improve until sufficient jobs reduce unemployment to less than 5% with decent paying jobs. Plus, ending three wars. What is being done by this or prior administrations and congress to encourage any business to expand and hire people?

Both parties know but are too greedy to make major adjustments to the business tax regulations that favor some at the expense of others. They refuse to differentiate between highly and over paid executives and the business they manage. Tax hell out of the over paid but allow the business to be as competitive as possible with American products and services. Increase exports and stop the wealth drain with a rediculous trade imbalance. Regulate with reason but allow the private sector to pursue energy independence.

Unfottunately both parties are so compromised by special interest they will not risk not being elected to their positions of power and influence.

July 4, 2011 at 12:02 p.m.
fairmon said...

Today is set aside to express appreciation for those that sacrificed and many that made the ultimate sacrifice beginning with those who fought for and gained our independence. It is hard to imagine the number sacrificing life and limb to achieve and to defend the independence we now take for granted. It becomes easier and easier to give up freedom for false promises of security.

Today's politicians can emulate the roar of the cannon but never make a hole in the target. Both parties seek to achieve the same control exercised by the Kings of Great-Britain from which our founders escaped to provide Americans the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The federal government powers were limited to those granted by the states. The manipulation of states and making them essentially impotent is evident but never questioned by those demanding more and more from the federal government. The federal government in an effort to expand their power and control is governing in a way that assures all citizens are dependent and equally impoverished.

The government and the people appear hell bent to assure America experiences the same fate of all great dynasty's in history by behaving just as each of those that failed. The similarities and rhetoric are frighteningly similar. Students keep asking why do we have to study history and over time educators have made the importance of history much less important. In a recent test of high school seniors 75% didn't know who the first U.S. president was.

July 4, 2011 at 12:44 p.m.
kousuke said...

It's great and kawaii, Mr. Bennett.

July 9, 2011 at 2:51 a.m.
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