published Sunday, May 8th, 2011

County Commission

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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OllieH said...

I knew there was a reason I stayed up so late tonight. I suppose the only good thing about having idiots running our County Commission, is that they inspire cartoons like this.

Great work, Clay!

May 8, 2011 at 12:12 a.m.
podiebell said...

This seems a little crass for Mother's Day. Just sayin'.

May 8, 2011 at 1:09 a.m.
tnrighty said...

Unwanted pregnancy? That's not what she said last night.

May 8, 2011 at 1:37 a.m.
Yano said...

Where's miniaturized Stewie when you need him??

May 8, 2011 at 1:49 a.m.
OllieH said...

The County Commission defunding family planning is certainly crass, but this cartoon isn't.

May 8, 2011 at 7:45 a.m.
MTJohn said...

There are two problems with this cartoon: 1) It is a caricature of one county commission, but is applicable to many county commissions, state legislatures and Congress. 2) It is an insult to sperm.

May 8, 2011 at 7:58 a.m.
Marmelwin said...

If the "little swimmers" make it - will they chose life or abort?

May 8, 2011 at 8:34 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Marmelwin - the responsibility for that decision does not belong to the "little swimmers". And, more important, the decision to "choose life" is more comprehensive than merely opting to carry a pregnancy to term. And, in that context, the commission's decision to terminate funding for family planning was, in fact, contrary to choosing life.

May 8, 2011 at 8:45 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

liberals like to play god with everything...who will be born and who won't be, what we can drive, what we can eat, how much we can have, who gets what, what doctors we can see,.......liberals, lefties, democrats...whatever label fits.....it's all about control..completely, and the ultimate example of your desire to control is your sick attachment to abortion. who gets to be born and who doesn't. who gets to come into the world and who doesn't.

there's no such thing as an unwanted pregnancy...it is what it is.....a new life...can you libs say for certain that someone born into less than ideal circumstances will not have a positive impact on this world? of course not, morons. you don't have that kind of ability....

you libs...would it have been as legitimate a decision for your mother to decide to abort you instead of allowing you to be born? your answer has to be yes. you libs have given equal status to either decision.......if you're here, fine..if not, that's fine too.........whatever.....

May 8, 2011 at 9:22 a.m.
mella_yella said...

@podiebell said... This seems a little crass for Mother's Day. Just sayin'


I think it's perfect timing! LOL

Good work Mr. Bennett

May 8, 2011 at 9:51 a.m.
moonpie said...

SeaMonkey's indomitable logic:

"there's no such thing as an unwanted pregnancy..."

So that explains birth control and abortion.... I get it....

No, no.... I don't get it...

May 8, 2011 at 10:35 a.m.
Humphrey said...

using birth control reduces unwanted pregnancies, and that reduces abortion. So it seems to me, if you want to reduce abortion you would support education about using birth control. But I guess some people think if people can't get birth control they won't have sex in the first place. But it hasn't seemed to work that way for the first few thousands years of human existence has it.

May 8, 2011 at 10:48 a.m.
chet123 said...

calm down seamonkey...maybe you need to cut back on watching Rush Limbaugh....you beginning to sound just like him...except Rush have 400 millions contract to spread lies(he get paid bozo)...what do you get $0.00 how stupid can a man be?....

May 8, 2011 at 11:35 a.m.
chet123 said...

Seamonkey you continue to talk yourself in a box.....let me see, hamiton county is having a shortage in teenager pregnancies(because abortions and birth control) hmmmmmm the world according to seamokey

May 8, 2011 at 11:40 a.m.
chet123 said...

Notice commissioners all MALES LOL LOL LOL willing to bet half are southern baptist or so-call Christian with their church influence....PEOPLE THIS IS WHERE the PROBLEMS LAY.

May 8, 2011 at 11:49 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

abortion is used as birth control, moonpie...

it's a pregnancy..that's a unborn life....it's legitimate..the unwanted label is artificial....

you question my logic? according to you libs sometimes an unborn life is a person and sometimes it's not....if a preg. woman gets murdered the murderer is charged with the death of two people .....yet, a woman, with the help of an abortionist, can kill her unborn baby, and that's perfectly fine? sometimes it's a person, sometimes it's not.

using birth control to prevent pregnancy is not the same as using abortion as birth control.

since roe v wade, there have been, what...50 million abortions......50 million? that speaks to the devaluing of human life and the loss of our moral compass.

it's not an advancement of any kind..it's not progressive.....it speaks to how our society has degenerated.

once again..it's all about control......

if it's as legitimate a choice to kill an unborn baby, as it is to let it live, then it automatically devalues human life.

May 8, 2011 at 11:52 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

the bogus and weak defense. " well the woman has to give birth and carry it around for 12 months"...."if a man was pregnant, he wouldn't feel the same way"....bull****..... that doesn't fly......we're talking about a human being....not a mole...or cyst...or popping a pimple. being inconvenienced is a cold and naziesque excuse to kill an unborn baby.

it's come down to that it's just another medical procedure.....that's how much our society has degenerated.

in addition..the governement has no business getting involved in abortion..or anything else for that matter.....marriage, what we eat or don't eat..etc....

we lost our exceptionalism when roe v wade was made into law.......not for all the other stupid reasons you libs give....like watergate, iran-contra, invasion of iraq and so on.......we're a country that sanctions killing unborn human beings because of inconvenience......

how that's not genocide...i'll neve know.

May 8, 2011 at 12:03 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Seamonkey - this is about family planning, not abortion.

May 8, 2011 at 1:16 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Humphrey said: "using birth control reduces unwanted pregnancies, and that reduces abortion. So it seems to me, if you want to reduce abortion you would support education about using birth control. But I guess some people think if people can't get birth control they won't have sex in the first place. But it hasn't seemed to work that way for the first few thousands years of human existence has it."

Yes, if there is any doubt about the need for basic sex education in Hamilton County, one only has to review some of the comments and questions raised by some of these County Commissioners. One wonders if their problem is due to plain ignorance or some kind of personal psychosocial issue involving a late transition from childhood to adulthood.

May 8, 2011 at 2:05 p.m.
khargis said...

2 days ago, other local media reported that councilman henry announced that the board intended to reverse it's decision.

perhaps the purpose of this 'toon is to call attention to warren mackey's absence

May 8, 2011 at 2:09 p.m.
potcat said...

I sure hope they are shooting blanks!

May 8, 2011 at 5:38 p.m.
chrisbrooks said...

Rally to Support Family Planning on Wednesday, May 18th at 9 AM at the County Courthouse!

Find more information at: http://chattaction.org/post/5222342955/rally-to-support-family-planning

May 8, 2011 at 6:32 p.m.
yaffay said...

This is hilarious! However, I think if the sperm were actual Hamilton County commissioners, most of them would be swimming backwards.

May 8, 2011 at 8:35 p.m.

Our poor ancestors. How were they ever able to plan families without the help of county commissioners? A pity.

May 8, 2011 at 9:19 p.m.
Yano said...

The Hamilton County Health Department does not fund abortions. It funds the prevention of abortions. But let's talk about abortion!

The beginning of life should be determined the same way the end of life is - by brain activity.

It is the functioning of the brain that makes us who we are, that makes us more than a sack of organs and fluid. When brain activity ends, a person is no longer a person - there is nothing left of person-hood. Heart muscles might beat for months, cells might even live on for decades in a petri dish, but they are no more a human being than a collection of E-coli is.

So too, at the beginning of life. A speck of cytoplasm is not a person in any rational sense. Of course, an embryo might BECOME a person. It contains the requisite DNA and cellular processes to eventually grow a functioning brain. But that does not mean that there is already a person there. There isn't, because person-hood is in the brain, and an embryo doesn't have one of those.

Only subscribers to magic mumbo-jumbo, who believe that an undetectable "spirit" is supernaturally injected into each fertilized egg by the invisible sky-god - at the moment of conception, they insist arbitrarily!!! - can claim that 4 or 8 or 164 cells are a person. Such people are entitled to their beliefs, but are not entitled to impose their delusions onto others. Why should they be able to do that?

Many, maybe most, fertilized eggs abort spontaneously, without the mother ever knowing about it. That does not mean we are facing mass death all around us as unviable embryos die. What would that say about the nature of a god that puts "spirits" into so many doomed little embryos? Rather, it means that people reproduce through a complex process that is gradual.

Gradual is exactly what right-wingers cannot stand. For them, everything needs to be black or white, absolute, clear and certain. They are the people who fear the gray, who are terrified of not knowing. Whenever they face the unknown, the make crap up, and believe it, and try to make you believe it too. Whenever they face a graduality, such as the slow development of person-hood through the growth of the organ we call the brain, they recoil and resort to their made-up mumbo-jumbo. Life begins at conception! they decide, finding comfort in their arbitrary certainty.

When does an embryo become a person? When is there enough brain activity to call a little being a human being? Well, it's a gradual process. Yeah. You hate that. You can't process that. But biology is what it is, despite your theocracy and your inability to let go of your need for absolutes.

But, because life and death are also absolute, there must be a line when it comes to abortion. The line can be an ekg. The line can be viability. The line can be some other test. But please, PLEASE, let us not make decisions that affect billions of human beings on the basis of psychotic made-up BS.

May 8, 2011 at 9:38 p.m.
sd said...

As khargis said, the Commissioners responded to complaints by stating they will approve the contract.

http://chattarati.com/metro/government-politics/2011/5/7/commission-will-approve-family-planning-contract-c/

It's pretty awesome how quickly people jumped all over this. When I first read about it, my reaction was, "Here we go..."

That being said, this is free money for a range of health services, and the fact that the Commissioners would have voted against it if it included abortion funding is problematic. They have demonstrated that they are not voting based on community need but rather their personal preferences, which means they are not doing their jobs.

May 8, 2011 at 11:13 p.m.

canary you posted snipits and not truth. If you want to be euro that is fine. You are now in the company of francis. check my profile sweetie.

May 8, 2011 at 11:42 p.m.
moonpie said...

Yano,

Good theory about the early embryo and brain activity; however, when most abortions are performed, the brain is developed. At least significant neural activity is.

Brain development continues after birth and certainly into the teens.

Drawing the line on this can be tricky.

A 12 week fetus withdraws when forceps grab it. I've seen it on ultrasound.

To be comfortable with abortion, one must be comfortable with killing something that is alive. The embryo and the fetus are on a support system, but they are living.

To support abortion I think a person has to accept and reconcile this, or ignore it.

I can understand the argument that life begins at conception. At any point in life, the finger of God or nature can extinguish that life. The question is: when is it acceptable for humans to intervene?

I have my thoughts on this. I am pro choice, but I must meet the argument head on.

May 8, 2011 at 11:44 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Sorry I took the time to wait for this page to download.

At least he did not do a forth cartoon on bin laden.

May 9, 2011 at 7:35 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

It seems to me the question that Hamilton County residents should be asking is why did these Hamilton County Commissioners ramble on about “abortion” when the community health services involved in the matter had nothing to do with the issue of “abortion?”

The “abortion” hoopla they created seems disingenuous to me. The bottom line is these are the type of community health services that these Commissioners are/were opposing:

WIC

Childhood immunizations

Examination for head lice

Pregnancy testing

Family Planning

Emergency Contraception

Prenatal Care (basic level only)

Routine adult immunizations (MMR, Td)

Breast and Cervical Cancer screenings

HIV testing and counseling

Primary care for families

Newborn genetic screenings (PKU, Sickle Cell Anemia, Thalassemia, Hypothyroidism, Biotinidase Deficiency)

May 9, 2011 at 8:10 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Yano - the fallacy in your argument is that too many of the folks whom we elect to public office (and, too many of the folks who vote for them) fail the brain activity test.

May 9, 2011 at 8:18 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

it's always about abortion...because abortion has become "family planning"..it has become birth control....it's what feminists fight for tooth and nail because it represents the ultimate power.. who gets to be born and who doesn't...who gets to enter the world and who doesn't.

incest, mothers life in danger, rape..those are all things that are real. they do happen. but, sorry, it doesn't justify it... in america and in many western countries...it's crystal clear that abortion has reached genocidal proportions. to deny it is foolish....50 million plus abortions since roe v wade....the campaign to dehumanize and devalue the unborn has worked really well....the numbers prove it.

if you're "pro-choice"..then you're pro killing of the unborn....."a women's right to choose" really means a woman has the right to kill her unborn baby.

it's simply killing for convenience.......it's as cold as it gets.

feminism has taught women to act like slobs and cover their tracks.

equal wages with men for doing the same jobs, more opportunities in society...are one thing, but, abortion does not make a woman equal or superior.

May 9, 2011 at 8:23 a.m.
chet123 said...

seamonkey if your daughter was raped by a black man...you would burn the tire off your car beating the doors down to get in the clinic with your daughter LOL LOL LOL,,,so stop telling lies LOL LOL...seamonkey you remind me of former GA. congressman Bob Barr, he was a big time anti-choice avocator....until someone did some research and found out Bob Barr had driven his wife to abortion clinic..LOL LOL LOL....these clowns are the first to say the government is to invasive...but they want to meddle in women life...LOL LOL

May 9, 2011 at 8:44 a.m.

No one who is pro-life makes the arguments attributed to SeaMonkey. SeaMonkey is Clay. His arguments are the straw men that pro-choice advocates want to respond to.

And Chet123 is Clay's attempt at balance.

May 9, 2011 at 8:55 a.m.
chet123 said...

look like i'm having to hunt down monkey again

May 9, 2011 at 8:56 a.m.
potcat said...

Monkey, you are so stupid, this is not about abortion. its about preventing abortions.

Feminism...how ignorant can you get, how could you posaibly know anything about the a womans struggle in in this world, all you can say is , a womans is.. cold, slobs and abortion is family planning. WRONG< WRONG < WRONG.

They are many reasons a woman has a abortion, usually by a doctors advice. I know a woman who recently had one, and it was advised by a doctor, for a number of reasons, spinal bifida and several other life threatening issues. Keep your uninfomed retarded opinions about women in the trash heap. Abortion is **LEGAL and its going to stay that way.

May 9, 2011 at 9:14 a.m.
MTJohn said...

wwww said, "No one who is pro-life makes the arguments attributed to SeaMonkey."

Many pro-life advocates make arguments like those attributed to SeaMonkey. To prove the point, I'd refer you to the transcripts of the debates in recent state legislatures on matters related to family planning, funding for planned parenthood, bills to define crimes against fetuses, bills to define fetuses as persons, etc. etc.

May 9, 2011 at 9:19 a.m.
moonpie said...

Potcat, FS (SM) may make arguments to such an extreme that they become ridiculous; however, I don't believe that most abortions are due to a doctor's advice. Some women do terminate pregnancies which have severe deformities like anencephally, or due to maternal cardiomyopathy. But in the grand scheme, these represent the smaller number of terminations.

The majority of abortions are unwanted, unintended pregnancies and are terminated for social/economic reasons. Francis says these are terminated merely out of convenience, by slobs, who may be trying to wield power.

Having worked with many women who have terminated pregnancies, I can say that many of them are completely powerless and have few people to help them in this world. Many already have children they can't adequately care for.

Still, I would say that Francis is correct that some do terminate simply out of convenience.

Others terminate because they have no means to provide for a child. (Anyone who has adopted a Black baby or a baby with special needs has the moral authority to argue that this is non-valid argument.)

I would bet that Francis would deem women who terminate unwanted pregnancies unfit to be mothers. Yet, ironically, he would like to force them into motherhood.

I wonder what Francis's strategy to prevent unintended pregnancy is... I don't think it's providing birth control....

The infantilization of men is a common practice among tribal Arab cultures, where the woman must be the responsible one... men are not to blame.... curious connection between FS and that cultural paradigm.

May 9, 2011 at 9:39 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

SeaMonkey said: "feminism has taught women to act like slobs and cover their tracks."

Hmmmm . . . I believe U.S. history shows us that there was an abundance of arrogant male slobs in America long before the suffragettes ever appeared on the scene, SeaMonkey. . . So you need to come up with another excuse.

Generally speaking, it seems to me that we've always had males around who've had considerable difficulty valuing life and respecting the rights of other members of the human species. Indeed, in America, there was a lot of them around as early as 1806:

“In 1756, Lydia Chapin Taft became the first legal woman voter in colonial America. This occurred under British rule in the Massachusetts Colony.[5] This was in a New England town meeting and she voted on at least three occasions in Uxbridge, Massachusetts.

Women in New Jersey could vote (with the same property qualifications as for men, although, since married women did not own property in their own right, only unmarried women and widows qualified) under the state constitution of 1776, where the word "inhabitants" was used without qualification of sex or race.

New Jersey women, along with "aliens...persons of color, or negroes," lost the vote in 1807, when the franchise was restricted to white males, ostensibly, to combat electoral fraud by simplifying the conditions for eligibility.”

Wikipedia Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27...

May 9, 2011 at 9:46 a.m.
potcat said...

Moonpie.. I said they are many reasons a woman decides to have a abortion.. i did make the mistake that it is usually by a Doctors suggestion. You would be surprised how many are made through a Doctor and Patient though. As for using abortion as birth control, it is very rare, and they would have to be something wrong with such a person who does so.

May 9, 2011 at 10:58 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

SeaMonkey said: “it's always about abortion... it's what feminists fight for tooth and nail because it represents the ultimate power. . .who gets to be born and who doesn't. . . incest, mothers life in danger, rape..those are all things that are real. they do happen. but, sorry, it doesn't justify it.”

All things considered, I believe it is people like you who are seeking power, SeaMonkey. It also seems to me that you’re overlooking a number of important moral issues in your quest for power - starting with the issue of rape, which is a crime.

If society believes it’s just to execute a criminal for his/her crimes, why would it be considered unjust or immoral to execute the sperm of rapist so to speak? Why should a victim of rape be forced to endure the presence of a rapist’s sperm inside her body for nine months? Such reasoning seems rather cruel and perverse to me.

If a mother’s life is in danger due to a pregnancy, why is it unjust or immoral to take steps to protect her life? Are you suggesting the life of the sperm and/or embryo is more important that the life of the mother? If so, what moral criteria are you using to make this claim? And who gave you the right to make this kind of moral judgement?

May 9, 2011 at 11:47 a.m.
Livn4life said...

CLASSLESSNESS DISPLAYED in this and any Cartoon which makes light of the miracle that is life. It's amazing that anyone is ever born, including you drawboy Clay, when all things are required for conception to take place and a baby develop properly. But no...let's politicize choice and call it all family planning.

May 9, 2011 at 12:53 p.m.
chet123 said...

Why dont the republican men stop talking like a BOZO...this is a political football for you..because you have nothing else constructive...if you are so pro-life you will be in favor of Health Care thats affordable and assessable for everyone, Pro-life should be anti-war..if American security and lives are not threaten,,Pro-lifer would be against capital punishment,Pro-lifer would be in favor of children receiving lunch at school regardless of their parent being trifling..pro-life would care about elders not going hungry....so dont give me that pro-life BS...chattanooga have a teen pregancy problem...children having children...if you not going to help...JUST SHUT-UP....

May 9, 2011 at 2:03 p.m.
chet123 said...

i hate that holier than thou attitude...and everybody see thru you clowns...

May 9, 2011 at 2:06 p.m.
chet123 said...

Tell you what you can do(self-righteous republican)voice your opinion to corporate about their commercial(got to have a naked woman to sell a product),,or tell FOX NEWS to dress their women on FOX AND FRIEND so they're not showing their underwears...no no no...see no evil,say no evil, speak no evil no no no ...sex sells.....pure capitalism...profits driven....where's the self-righteous holiier than thou republican hiding....LOL LOL LOL

May 9, 2011 at 2:16 p.m.
limric said...

True right wing ideology: “The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"

It doesn’t take much to see the degree of hypocrisy in ant-choice. No, it only takes the willingness to see it. One only needs evidence chet123’s 8:44 a.m post. When inflamed moral sensibility and cynical political demagoguery combine to ratchet up the compulsion to control, it results in a self-righteous bumptiousness that declares that since abortion, is after all, really about Taking a Life, there's nothing wrong with requiring women to check their selfish homicidal impulses long enough to take a long, hard look at what they're really doing.

I'm surprised that they haven't thought of requiring women who get abortions to perform community service in nurseries and day care centers afterwards - or a nine month waiting period.

Whoops, I hope I didn't give anyone any ideas.

May 9, 2011 at 3:58 p.m.
fairmon said...

The issue to me is that tax payers are funding these services with confiscated money called taxes. Those that support and condone the services could and should voluntarily support and fund them. It would quickly become evident just how strongly some of those making the most noise feel about the issue. I would donate since I think there is a good ROI on abortions. I would increase the donation if the second abortion for the same person included and required sterilization, including the male participating in the unwanted pregnancy. We would see how strongly the cathedral building socializing church community felt about caring for those needing these services.

Politicians at all levels intervene in things not delegated to them by charter or constitution based on their personal whims and special interest pressure.

The county commission deserves some criticism but over all are much better managers than the city counsel. People assume if the two governments were merged the city would expand and become the governing body. The people in Hamilton county would be better served by city government being abolished and only essential services absorbed by the county. No changes in tax rates until county residents requested and received additional services now provided city residents. Eliminating duplications and two government entities spending money would yield significant savings and increase the value in use of tax money.

May 9, 2011 at 4:55 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Perhaps we should all move to Planet Parenthood, where abortion is illegal for all but the "pro-lifers", for whom it is mandatory.

May 9, 2011 at 5:30 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Harp - taxes are the privilege of responsible citizenship. What's it worth to you to live in a civilized society? If you really want the kind of freedom that you advocate, maybe you should move to Somalia.

May 9, 2011 at 5:32 p.m.
chet123 said...

Harp3339...what do you mean by confiscated money...that an illegal term, your language is too stronge...i see Gas prices being illegal..most american pay more out of their household income to gas exspense than they do in federal taxes...big oil price gouage which would be illegl for me if i had a monopoly or exclusive control i would end up in Jail..Harp3339 before I go farther you must understand. Its hard to take you serious when you project crazy talk...i can tell aready you are a republican...everything you wrote can easily be rebuttal...it dont hold water...for example those who support and condone services(crazy talk)Chattanooga and ringgold just got hit by a tornado, so the people who receive funds should pay for it??? if you dont support the releif of helping Ringgold should hold their money(the other 48 state) appropriation of funds, HARP3339 ..i must say your writing is good you dot your I's and crossed your T's..but your substance is like a 6year old child....the republican party have listen so much to people like Laura Ingram, Rush Limbaugh,American Spectators,AmericanThinker, they had blown your brain out of your cranial...its a sad day in America...republican party use to be respected...the right-wing have taken over your party....this country had one civil war that costed 600,000 lives because crazy talk....think,think,think,,,if you dont like the system opt out..get out....and draw water from a well and releive yourself by digging a hole...amish people dont pay taxes...they dont travel tax payer interstate, they dont drive their trucks down paved roads...do yourself a favor..opt out

May 9, 2011 at 6:01 p.m.
chet123 said...

MTJOHN...whats wrong with these folk...talk crazy

May 9, 2011 at 6:02 p.m.
fairmon said...

MYJohn,

Taxes are for operating the government and defense of the country. Local taxes are for police and fire protection, infrastructure, education and incarceration. Why should government confiscate money to support charitable endeavors? Where are the cathedral building bible toters? They may have to reduce their socialising with each other, cut back their rec centers, book stores and other favors they do for themselves in order to walk the talk. I have no problem and I do donate to a number of charities which is much more efficient and effective than some government entity processing it.

Feel free to send in extra taxes if you want to but don't tell me it is a privilege to have tax money spent in ways not intended. I see people making choices between food and medicine, I see them not being able to have many things they should have and paying taxes so the government can fund a charitable activity. Then I see our elected officials and mayor funding something called Arts and Crafts Education at a couple million a year to construct god awful looking sculptures and other to be maintained creations. I admit you hit my hot button with that taxes are a privilege comment. I don't see a comment regarding freedom in my post but I would prefer freedom from unnecessary taxation.

May 9, 2011 at 6:03 p.m.
chet123 said...

harp...become a amish.....dont raise hell when there's an oil spill of the coast(LA)by big oil...and you raise hell ..saying the government(all 50 states) should clean it up...you talks out of both side of your mouth...you dont think...just another Goose stepper!!

May 9, 2011 at 6:06 p.m.
chet123 said...

HARP3339...welcome to the America...this is not a 5th world country......maybe you need to go amish

May 9, 2011 at 6:11 p.m.
chet123 said...

find a piece of land and go...i'm willing to bet folk like Rush Limbaugh would be laughing at you...laura Ingraham,and bill o'really ..because they not going anywhere.you will be laugh at....beside you are so wrong when you speak on the function of government....do yourself a favor...read...take an america civic class maybe world history and america history(middle school level) you been listening to haters and you have no idea what you are talking about...

May 9, 2011 at 6:21 p.m.
chet123 said...

China is becoming the world power ..thanks to selffish short sighted republican like harp...Bush Borrowed money from China to fight a war....what a shame harp

May 9, 2011 at 6:27 p.m.
amundsenrocks said...

I've got a better idea Clay, lets blame the mother and the father instead.

May 9, 2011 at 6:34 p.m.
fairmon said...

chet,

You are full of it. I didn't say anything about not assisting those harmed by the storms, I donated a pretty good sum to the salvation army which is one of the most efficient charities in existence. I said nothing about not maintaining the roads and other infrastructure which has been allowed to deteriorate. And, you can bet your ass I don't care for the republican agenda any more than the democrats BS they spray us with. Bush cuts taxes then creates a prescription drug plan for seniors without a plan to pay for it. Now Obama tops that with a health care plan. If you don't think the debt is a problem and that this country is not broke and approaching defaulting you are a total idiot. I don't like many things that governments spend money on but if they are going to spend it then they need to increase taxes enough to pay for it. That means not only will the wealthy have to pay more everyone will. Taking every dollar of income from the wealthy won't keep the debt from increasing. You like to philosophy but did you take even a basic economics or civics course in school? You and a lot of people think all the give away programs are great and necessary but when we have to pay for them some will see there may be a better way. You seem to have no problem running up credit card bills that you will never pay and if they are ever paid future generations pay them for you.

Your conclusion that most people pay more for gas than they do in income taxes is ridiculous. Until recently people were paying as much for cokes as they were paying for an equivalent amount of gas. a 12 oz coke at fifty cents would be 10 cans, one gallon, for $5.00. Everything is relevant. Any idea how much tax is included in a gallon of gas? Learn that and you may have a clue why the government doesn't object to the higher cost. By the way when Obama took office gas was $1.87 a gallon but the fact is he nor Bush or the oil companies have any significant control over it.

I thought you were a democrat but it is obvious you belong to the Ostrich party. An Ostrich buries their head in the sand when there is something they don't want to see or hear but their ass is still shining and they are even more vulnerable to surrounding dangers.

Your rebuttals lack depth and consist primarily of your opinion and parroting of some politician or news sound bite.

May 9, 2011 at 6:40 p.m.
fairmon said...

chet,

Your statement confirms the shallowness of your data and thinking. Obama has doubled the debt Bush ran up and he did let the debt get out of hand but Obama has borrowed more money from China plus the fed is printing billions in money. Your blind loyalty to the democrats is admirable but don't link me with the republican party since I see little difference in the two. I don't see either of them with the gonads to deal with the problems we face. The best thing that could happen is that we hurry and crash so someone has to find the nerve to do what has to be done.

What do you think happens when China and others quit buying our bonds? What happens when the interest on the debt is equal to all the annual tax revenue. I will loan you a tractor if you want to borrow it.

May 9, 2011 at 6:50 p.m.
rick1 said...

chet123, In the latest quarter, Exxon Mobil made just over 2 cents per gallon in profit for a gallon of gas it sold. But the federal and state governments, which tack HUGE taxes on every gallon of gas you buy made a whopping 48 cents per gallon. And that's just an average. In some states, like California government took a whopping 66 cents for every gallon consumers bought.

http://www.matchdoctor.com/blog_129846/Exxon_Mobil_Profit_Per_Gallon_Of_Gas_2_cents_Government_Profit_48_cents.html

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/04/gasoline-taxes-per-gallon-vs-exxon.html

May 9, 2011 at 6:57 p.m.
rick1 said...

Harp, great posts at 6:40pm and 6:50pm.

May 9, 2011 at 7:15 p.m.

MTJohn said... Seamonkey - this is about family planning, not abortion.

ABORTION IS FAMILY PLANNING. THINK............

May 9, 2011 at 8:32 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Chet123 said: "Why dont the republican men stop talking like a BOZO. . .if you are so pro-life you will be in favor of Health Care thats affordable and assessable for everyone, Pro-life should be anti-war..if American security and lives are not threaten . . . Pro-lifer would be against capital punishment,Pro-lifer would be in favor of children receiving lunch at school . . . pro-life would care about elders not going hungry....so dont give me that pro-life BS."

Indeed, it is blatantly hypocritical, Chet123. I also noted recently that many of these alleged “pro lifers” like Republican Paul Ryan are now targeting the Medicaid program, which mostly provides medical assistance to children, the elderly, and disabled people living in nursing homes – talk about a helpless and powerless group.

May 9, 2011 at 8:46 p.m.

chet, etc. Harp is one of the most intelligent and thoughtful people on this thread. He is open in his thoughts and he just dont believe in waste of taxes to stupid programs. He will fund anything that makes since to the majority. The only thing I dont see eye to eye with him is a couple of social programs. But thats my opinion, and his.

May 9, 2011 at 11:04 p.m.
fairmon said...

If you are willing to suggest someone else do something then you should be willing to do it also. It is easy to insist on government providing everything for everybody but to insist that money be borrowed and the debt increased is ignorant or insisting that others pay for it is greedy and selfish. I have yet to see Chet, Mntluaurel or others advocating social programs volunteer to pay additional taxes or in a more efficient way fund those programs. No one is advocating that children, elderly or the disabled not be supported. Perhaps those so adamant about cutting nothing are beneficiaries and like having someone else pay for everything they demand or consider essential.

Review Ryan's proposal yourself without listening to Pelosi who said about the health care bill we will just have to pass it to see what is in it. Her best was when she said unemployment is the best stimulus there is for the economy. She even left the media folks speechless with those brilliant observations. I don't think the proposed cuts are all the right things and still doesn't address providing adequate care and pay for military personnel.

There should be zero deductions and earned income credits and the published tax rate should be paid on all income. Add tax brackets and soak the wealthy more and increase all other rates as well. The key is pay for all those goodies as you go, quit spending more than you have coming in. I doubt most people can comprehend just how much 1 trillion is much less 14 trillion and growing. Interest on the current debt will equal what the budget was in years past.

May 9, 2011 at 11:43 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

*Harp3339 said: "It is easy to insist on government providing everything for everybody but to insist that money be borrowed and the debt increased is ignorant or insisting that others pay for it is greedy and selfish. . . Review Ryan's proposal yourself."

Believe you missed Chet123’s point, Harp3339. In his post, Chet was simply pointing out some major policy inconsistencies of many of those who claim to be pro-life. Indeed, how can an individual like Republican Paul Ryan claim to be pro-life when he is anti-life in so many other ways? Clearly, an individual who is truly pro-life is going to be more consistant when it comes to social policies, human beings and life/death issues.

I mentioned Republican Rep. Paul Ryan and the GOP’s current attack on Medicaid for obvious reasons. The bottom line is that more than two thirds of this Medicaid money goes to nursing home care for elderly and disabled persons. If the GOP eliminates Medicaid, what happens to the individuals living in these nursing homes? Does the GOP plan to just kick these elderly and disabled people out onto the streets? Indeed, what is “pro-lifer” Paul Ryan’s grand plan for the elderly and disabled people living in these nursing homes?

It’s a legitimate question, Harp3339, and since you appear to be a Paul Ryan advocate, perhaps, you can provide us with an answer. Personally, I believe the profit motive must be eliminated from our healthcare system. The U.S. continues to be the only industrialized nation in the world that advocates profits in the area of healthcare, and it is costing us dearly in the big picture. It's morally wrong to be making profits off of sick people and we also can’t afford it.

May 10, 2011 at 6:56 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Harp - taxes are to fund a government that serves we, the people. We, the people, deserve a civilized society and not the kind of anarchy that would result from the policies that you advocate.

May 10, 2011 at 8:58 a.m.
chet123 said...

HARP3339...YOU talk as if you are a billionaire...really wont find any in this one horse town(only big fish in small pond)...i can not find you on here...you reappear after i leave...would love to challenger you BRO...just dont hide....

May 10, 2011 at 9:18 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Chet,

You don't have to be a billionaire to know it is morally wrong to take the property of others for your own use. You cannot make the confiscation of property ethical by legalizing it either. The progressive goal of income redistribution is a morally corrupt concept that you have been indoctrinated into accepting, even advocating.

If you examine the practice honestly you would be forced to see that it is wrong.

May 10, 2011 at 10:03 a.m.
chet123 said...

HARP3339 i have looked at your comments in the past...you are republican bro...you may not admit to it(shame to say so)but you are just that...your comment against union(they are the people)You seem to think millionaires and billionaires have worked so"HARD" to acheive what they have(what a joke)they get there through blood and sweat of their employees this is where you and i are really at ODDs,and by the way,if you are a millionaire can see you protecting your interest(i doubt if you are a millionaire)but if you are not...why protect the rich and greedy...you talk as if some poor person are getting rich off the money in this country. maybe we do need to cut.OK but revenue need to go back where it was under Clinton. Clinton left office leaving the country a surplus(that part you want to forget) It was a republican President you elected that run this country in the red(guess you forgot that too)Bush along with a republican house gave tax cut to millionaires and billionaires(that they didnt need)...then started two wars..the fool bomb one country that had nothing to do with "911" military WARS are very expensive(didnt hear you nor your buddies complaining) at the same time GAS PRICES sky rocket and didnt come down until democrats retook the house(guess your butt forgot that too)republican have a hard time investigationg BIG OIL..i wonder why?(they pay for their election)Republican will bend backward to kiss butt of rich corporation(then talk hard to working class making cut on their back)and corporation continue to send our jobs over seas(that our tax base Einstein!)but the rich and greedy interested in max profit to max CEO salaries(income gap widen under republican) and max investor returns at middleclass people expense...bank and financial institution regulation had been removed by the great dummy republican name Ronald Reagan(what a Joke)which left citizen vunerble..to pozi scheme(madoff)and dont forget enron ken lay(george bush buddy)There were 17,000 lobbyist in WAshington D.C(the working class dont have a prayer)YES 17,000 LOBBYIST..How many represent middleclass American very very few..large corporations.. Between 1998 2010 1). Finance Insurance Real Estate 4,274,060,331 2). Health 4,222,427,808 3). Misc Business 4,149,842,571 4). Communication/Electronics 3,497,881,399 5). Energy&Natural resources 3,104,104,518 6). Transportation 2,245,118,222 7). Others(who know what other is)2,207,772,363 8). Ideological/single issues 1,477,294,241

Those are commons not periods ..harp! we talking about Billions in lobbying hmmmmmmmmmm going into someone pockets these powerful organization owns congress and senate....and you are complianning about the cumbs..poor people get...i get fighting mad listen to you and your republican butt kisser shoot off your mouth protectong the powerful...

May 10, 2011 at 10:56 a.m.
chet123 said...

and by the way republican retook the house in nov...notice gas spike up at the same time....please reply back...so uncle Chet can take your butt back to school gomer...what the open public to see this...i havent unloaded on you yet

May 10, 2011 at 11:04 a.m.
chet123 said...

oh yeah...get your other buddies...maybe about 10 more buddies...to make it an even argument ..then i will take you BOZOs with half my brain tied behind my back

May 10, 2011 at 11:08 a.m.
chet123 said...

LISTEN to bigridgepatiot....MORALLY LOL MARALLY what a joke...you talking to the wrong person buddy...save your hot-air for big bank ...and the gouging of gas prices in the U.S. to Occidental petroleum who ceo made 600million in one year.dont hear you crying about that...i couldnt justify that salary even if he was pumping oil out his BUTT....complain about that...

May 10, 2011 at 11:18 a.m.
chet123 said...

And i hear these stupid stupid blue collars , one generation from Applachian farmer TALK BIG! HAVE 2 CARS AND A BOAT...AND TALK RICH...WHAT A JOKE...there only a few families here can make that claim.. JR!

May 10, 2011 at 11:30 a.m.
chet123 said...

notice theses chicken republicans will show up after i leave... GO BYE!

May 10, 2011 at 11:32 a.m.
chet123 said...

im' back still dont see harp and buddies...i'll be back

May 10, 2011 at 12:51 p.m.
MTJohn said...

BRP - taking what belongs to another is, indeed, morally wrong. And, in the system of not-so-free-market capitalism that has functioned since our country's inception, the wealthy have been taking from the disenfranchised, beginning with slavery and continuing in many and various forms of indentured service. The wealthy also have benefited disproportionately more from public sector investments in the infrastructure that makes it possible for our economy to function.

May 10, 2011 at 12:54 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

MTJohn said... "taking what belongs to another is, indeed, morally wrong. And, in the system of not-so-free-market capitalism that has functioned since our country's inception"

I think you are over playing the bad parts of early America and are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Sure, there were / are mistakes and bad players in every game, that does not mean you take the best game in town and make it look like all the other games.

I think your complaints about the wealthy are an unfair generalization. Progressives have tried to get us to believe that business is bad using a few high visability examples while ignoring the good, so they can save us from those horrible corporations. This is a self serving mischaracterization.

Please explain how the wealthy have disproportionately benefited. The entire country has benefited and enjoys an exceptional standard of living.

May 10, 2011 at 1:18 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

*chet123 said... "MORALLY LOL MARALLY what a joke"

You come across as overly emotional and dimwitted. I expect that no one sees any point it joining a conversation with you. I have attempted a couple of times and have gotten similar pointless outbursts.

May 10, 2011 at 1:22 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Oh yeah, bennett is a boring unimaginative waste of space.

TFP needs to ditch him. Any details on when his contract is up?

May 10, 2011 at 1:25 p.m.
MTJohn said...

BRP - I don't think my post was either unfair or a generalization. Look at current headlines - mine disasters, oil spills, security fraud, credit cards schemes, union busting, etc. etc. etc. are all twenty first century equivalents of that to which I referred. Big business that doesn't fit the pattern I described would be the exception, not the norm.

Moreover, I'd suggest that you do a little exercise in following the money - beginning with our early history. Without question, you would find that the descendents of the privileged classes (including slave holders) are disproportionately represented in today's wealthiest class. At the same time, you would find that the descendents of the underclasses - including slaves and the indigenous peoples - are disproportionately represented among today's disenfranchised people.

Our country was founded on a system that benefited the privileged and it was designed to perpetuate itself. And, the policies that you and the other conservatives/libertarians/tea party folks advocate would maintain that system, with the benefits reaped primarily by those who already are privileged.

May 10, 2011 at 2:50 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

MTJohn said... "Our country was founded on a system that benefited the privileged and it was designed to perpetuate itself"

If that was true we would not have such a high standard of living overall. You need to look beyond the progressive propaganda and look around you with your own eyes.

It is the progressive political system that strives to perpetuate itself by maintaining the sense of hopelessness and victimization of certain classes so they have someone to "save". Notice how current emigrants have no problem building success in this country. It is a matter of expectations and culture that hold down our poor, fostered by their political "champions".

May 10, 2011 at 5:04 p.m.
MTJohn said...

BRP - I have lived long enough to see with my own eyes. And, I'm posting with my own words, not talking points that I have copied from someone else's blog.

Standard of living not withstanding, wealth disparity in this country today is not all that different than it was on a mid-nineteenth century plantation. Wealth disparity persists because our system has always been tilted in favor of those who are in a position to take advantage of others.

May 10, 2011 at 5:56 p.m.
fairmon said...

chet,

Read the post again and tell me specifically where there is an error. If all you got is your political BS don't bother. If you think you can keep using credit cards and never pay for things then you are in for a shock. I haven't seen either party suggest, as I did, increasing taxes on everyone with a greater increase on the wealthy and America pay as we go so there is an America in our future. Do you even know how many zeros are in a trillion? You are about as full of non-sense and economic ignorance as some of your political heroes that couldn't manage to make water run down hill. But, they know how to con voters. Visit Thomas library of the congress and educate yourself instead of choking everybody with so much smoke and manure. You think the democrats know best, I think the democrats and republicans are both unwilling to be honest with people. They only do things to postpone the inevitable instead of fixing the problem. I assume you are employed, pay taxes, help others when they need it. However, If you are on the dole and getting all or some of the freebies you better get on my side and start insisting on taxes adequate to keep them coming.

You really do need a tractor, you may need a bulldozer instead.

I finally figured out that you are probably of the same ethnicity as Obama and credit him with a lot more than he deserves just as many blame him for more then he deserves blame for. He is probably a good hearted man with good intentions but surrounded by a cabinet that is without the capability needed for their jobs. I have to admit I would rather see him in office then Duck-do Trump. I really don't see a potential candidate from either party that is not just looking to stroke their own ego and will promise anything to get or stay in their elected position.

May 10, 2011 at 6:24 p.m.
chet123 said...

Harp3339....i knew if i irritated you enough you would show your true colors.....Glad other posters can see how gutless and impotent you really are...I gave you specifics and facts....bro you just got blistered...LOL LOL..you come off like you know what you talking about...but you are just a sounding board for the rich and greedy...and who keeping credit cards fool...what are you talking about..if you cut off revenue its truly going to be a deficit...and its a republican made deficit....it was done on purpose...for decades republican have been trying to reverse Roosevelt programs, truman and johnson programs....i'm not going cry over some rich and greedy person..because he might have to give up one of his dozen homes...or have to scale down his private jet...or instead of having 6 falcon rolls royce he only have 5 falcon roll royce...instead of 1 wife 6 mistresses he can only afford 1 wife and 3 mistresses LOL LOL LOL...you look foolish

everyone on here can read between your lines(what ethnicity got to do with our disagreement LOL LOL) you can not give any specific.. just nagging.....you just got smoked bro...LOL LOL..u not any different than seamonkey..LOL LOL..i say to you..if you cant take the heat...get out the kitchen...just hide as you always do when i'm in here LOL LOL..my democrat buddies and progressive friends can take of you,,because you are light-weight LOL LOL

May 10, 2011 at 10:18 p.m.
fairmon said...

chet,

Use the tractor to pull your head out of your ass. You rattle like a can full of rocks and say nothing. You would make a good politician.

May 11, 2011 at 12:14 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

MTJohn said... "Standard of living not withstanding, wealth disparity in this country today is not all that different than it was on a mid-nineteenth century plantation."

So, I guess that it does not matter to you that the poor in this country are wealthy in comparison to most of the world's population? You are so obsessed with how much money the evil rich have that you would destroy the system that made not only their wealth possible but the extraordinary standard of living of all citizens?

Clearly, you have been taught to envy. You can say you think with your own mind, but it is obvious that you have succumbed to the mountain of propaganda that is thrown at you every day by people like clay bennett.

May 11, 2011 at 9:11 a.m.
chet123 said...

HARP339....i'm not angry at you...would love to have lunch one day..it will be on me...you are a great writer..very eloquent,fluent and passionte...wish i could write like you..however i have an advantage over you my friend..and that is the truth. the truth is infallable and cut like a sword...thats why my republican friends run off like a scared rabbit...their arguments are deeply flawed....no logic!...it make no sense! i would never try to defend a falsehood or a lie...i would just walk away....but i beleive they have been so brain washed by think-tanks they dont know any better..billion of dollars have been bank-rolled into brain washing the republican voters thr 1,000s of propaganda vehicles such as the america Spectator,american-thinkers...they are in trouble...it use to be a very respectful party....before Ronald Reagan..Nixon had faults...but the republican party did not tolerate his law breaking...they were the minority party but they were respected...so i say to you...dont be bitter and hateful...if you do..how different are you from the people you call terrorist...cant reach compromises....no one have the absolute truth...not even democrats....this is just our(democrat) moment my friend..only a moment!

May 11, 2011 at 9:48 a.m.
chet123 said...

BigRidgePatriot...please stop lying...wealthy in comparison to who...who are you making comparison with my friend...how about comparing rich and greedy here to somalia top 2%...why do you work so hard to protect the rich and greedy

May 11, 2011 at 10 a.m.
chet123 said...

Bigridgepatriot..you use the word obsess..what sre you talking about man..democrat are not obsess nor pre-occupied with republican and rich and greedy..we are on the defense to hold on to what we have..the republican along with the rich and greedy are on the offense and we not going to stand by and do nothing .what are you smoking this morning ...most american dont give a rat butt what the rich and greedy do(we know what they dont do..fight in wars to defend this nation)....Democrats are just trying to hold on to what they have...they see their purchasing power deminishing...they see the rich and greedys are getting richer at middle-class people expense...when oil speculation and price guouging occur...rich and greedy is siphoning income from working and middle class pocket(stealing) when KolH bro.(rich and greedy)interfer with wisconsin govenment workers collective bargaining right..those are basic American rights....the republican along with the rich and greedy pushed for the "north america free trade agreement"(nafta)out sourcing our american job to 3rd world country to exploit cheap labor to max.Rich and greedy income...the rich and greedy declare a class war against their own fellow citizens...what rock you living under or are the rich and greedy paying you off too(traitor)

May 11, 2011 at 10:24 a.m.
MTJohn said...

BRP - I do not obsess about how much money the evil rich have. I obsess a lot about the disconnect between the American values that I learned in school and how our country really functions. I don't need Clay Bennett or anyone else to do my thinking for me - I can see it for myself. Greed is greed. Exploitation is exploitation. And greed and exploitation are the engines that power free-market capitalism. That was the case with the founding of this country and I cited a few examples that demonstrate that greed and exploitation continue to drive our economy.

May 11, 2011 at 12:44 p.m.
chet123 said...

democrat posters...see what BigRidgePatriot says on MAY 10 1:25pm

pleading to news free-press to fire bennett lol lol...sounds like republican can't defend their argument so they want to censor... now these BOZO is the first to cry out freedom of speech..LOL lOL they have drown the air-waves television and radio with their propaganda machine....they want only one veiw...brain wash with their lies....when there's any opposition they fall like a deck of cards...its a sad day in America!

May 11, 2011 at 1:23 p.m.
chet123 said...

they are laughable...i'm getting tied running these clowns down.. i'm a black man..i thought racist was horrible...but i'm finding out that classism is "ten" time as horrible...republican have lost their souls..will say anything and do anything...its like a slow drum beat that never stop until the rich and greedy consume-up everything...got news for them..it wont happen without a fight from the good people of this great country

May 11, 2011 at 1:32 p.m.
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