published Thursday, November 17th, 2011

5 at 10: Tiger tumbling, Vegas/Tebow and the Fab 4 (+1)

We have a couple of spots open in the mailbag, so if you have a question, we have an answer.

From the "Al Davis Studios," here we go...



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    Arkansas wide receiver Joe Adams, center, is congratulated by safety Eric Bennett (14) and other teammates after Adams' score on a punt return during the first quarter of the NCAA college football game with Tennessee, Saturday, Nov. 12, 2011, in Fayetteville, Ark.
    Photo by Associated Press /Chattanooga Times Free Press.

Fab 4 (plus 1)

We are coming off our worst week of the season — a 2-3 debacle that included some bad picks and a bad beat (Southern Miss was minus-7 and led 30-23 before Central Florida scored a TD on the final play of the game and missed the two-point try in a 30-29 Southern Miss win).

But, to borrow a line from all-time great L.L. Cool J, don't call this a comeback, we've been here for years. Seriously. The 5-at-10 can remember Pop 5-at-10 bringing home the old-school Kickoff he got mailed to his office and trying to pick college winners. We were 8, and no we did not have one of those green casino visors or a mobbed-up nickname like "Snacks" or "Jay-Jay Two-Times" or "Kid." We just liked to pick games, and when you're as competitive as the 5-at-10 is, anything you like to do you expect to be good at. Zip it Jefe. And Spy. And you too, OTWatcher. Let's just move on. (Side note, we met Kickoff editor Tommy Duff earlier this week at the UTC QB Club and didn't put two and two together until it was too late or we would have told Mr. Duff that the 5-at-10 is a long time Kickoff reader.)

Anyhoo, on to the picks, and remember we're 33-19-1 on the season:

Arkansas State minus-11 at MTSU — MTSU has lost three straight to La.-Monroe, Tennessee and La.-Lafayette by big, Big, BIG scores. In fact, MTSU's closest game in that three-game slide was the loss at UT (there's a joke here, but we can't think of it).

Now we come to the "We're motivated for a higher goal than you part of the show..."

Houston minus-19 over SMU — Yes, that's a lot of points. Want to know what else is a lot of points? How about 57.1, that's a lot of points right? That's what the high-powered Houston Cougars are averaging at home. Houston needs style points.

Oklahoma minus-13.5 at Baylor — Road double-digit 'dogs can be scary. Oklahoma needs style points.

Arkansas minus-13 against Mississippi State — Arkansas is 7-1 against the spread as the home team. Arkansas has an outside shot of sneaking into the BCS.

And the plus one game...

Georgia minus-30 against Kentucky — How many would it take for you to feel safe betting on UK? Is 37 enough? Is 40?

And the extra-special, get of the losing skid, plus-one-plus-one game:

Miami plus-1 at South Florida — Here's saying the 'Canes roll.



  • photo
    U.S. golfer Tiger Woods, left, shakes hands with his former caddie Steve Williams after the Presidents Cup Golf Tournament at Royal Melbourne Golf Course in Melbourne, Australia, Thursday, Nov. 17, 2011. The handshake between Woods and Williams was routine. The loss by Woods and Steve Stricker turned out to be the real drama in the Presidents Cup. (AP Photo/David Callow)

Tiger got Tiger-ed

Picture Tiger Woods and Steve Stricker in the Kevin Bacon role in "Animal House" during the fraternity initiation process and that was the historical whipping Woods and Stricker got from Adam Scott and K.J. Choi early Thursday morning in the Presidents Cup.

Woods and Stricker did not make a birdie, did not win a hole and did match the worst loss since the Presidents Cup began in 1994, falling 7 and 6 (which means they were seven holes down with six to play; it also means they got beat so bad that to translate it to another sport, it's like stopping a baseball game after six innings or a football game with five minutes left in the third quarter).

Ouch, and to think some yahoo wrote that this could tell us if Tiger could be Tiger again in the near future (Greeson: Can Tiger Woods recover at President's Cup).

OK, this was an alternate shot event, and at least early on Stricker appeared to less-than-recovered from some injuries that have kept him out of action since Sept. 25. Still, this was a supremely motivated Tiger Woods against former caddie Stevie Williams, who now works for Scott. And a motivated, pre-meltdown/accident/public debacle Tiger Woods would have made three birdies playing with the 5-at-10 as his partner three years ago.

We're still a ways off, we suppose.



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    Vanderbilt players run off the field after beating Kentucky 38-8 in an NCAA college football game, Saturday, Nov. 12, 2011, in Nashville, Tenn. (AP Photo/Mark Humphrey)

UT-Vandy, a matchup for the aged

There was a time when Vandy was a hoss. History less time:

The 1904 Vandy team under then-first-year coach Dan McGugin went 9-0, outscoring its opposition by 474-4. Current first-year coach James Franklin has not enjoyed that level of success, but he has worked miracles with the 'Dores. Consider this: If Vandy beats UT on Saturday and Wake Forest the following week, Franklin's team would be 7-5 and have a shot at eight wins with a good bowl game. Want to know the last time Vandy had more than eight wins? Try 1915 when McGugin's team won the SIAA title at 9-1. If Vandy finishes 7-5, Franklin deserves mentions in national coach of the year discussions.

But, that all hinges on beating the Vols, something the 'Dores have done exactly once in the last 28 years.

We're going to breakdown the match-ups more in the mailbag on Friday, but this game means a great deal for each — and that in itself is a win for Vandy and kind of a loss for UT. Plus we have a big-time contests on our hands. Let's go to the board:

We want your UT-Vandy scores. Be it UT 9-6 or Vandy 31-0, we want what you believe to be the final score. The first factor will be picking the winner, then the margin of victory. We asking for a score prediction so we can have total points scored as a tie-breaker. Remember, "Price is Right" rules are in effect, meaning that if you go over you're out. We'll try to get some of the area's "experts" on college football to play along too.

So, what do you think? Vols or 'Dores? 'Dores or Vols?

The winner will get some tickets for the Falcons-Vikings game in the Dome on Nov. 27.

Bring it.

Here's what we have so far, and we'll get Chris Goforth's pick today around 2 p.m. when we make our regular visit to "The Show" on 1370 AM.

UT-Vols Throwdown Showdown

BlueOval — Vandy 24-10

McPell — UT 23-21

Jharvey1984 — UT 13-10

FEChancellor — Vandy 20-16

Spy — Vandy 20-6

Memphisexile — UT 17-14

Addictedtochalupa — Vandy 17-10

Jesse — Vandy, 21-7

Etsubuc13 — UT, 20-13

BTG — UT, 13-10

scole023 — UT, 30-10

OTWatcher — UT, 20-14

ThatIDoKnow — Vandy, 21-6

JordanRules — Vandy, 23-14

WarEagle — UT, 28-21

SportTalk's Quake — UT 20-16

SportTalk's Dr. B (he's a doctor after all) — UT, 23-13

SportTalk's Cowboy Joe — Vandy, 17-16

TFP SEC ace David Paschall — Vandy, 25-22

TFP UT ace Downtown Patrick Brown — TBA

TFP ace columnist Mark Wiedmer — TBA

TFP ace Deputy Sports Editor Ron Bush — Vandy, 24-13

5-at-10 — TBA

Mrs. 5-at-10 — TBA



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    Mississippi quarterback Randall Mackey (1) looks for a receiver in the first half of a NCAA college football game against Auburn at Jordan-Hare Stadium in Auburn, Ala., Saturday, Oct. 29, 2011. (AP Photo/Dave Martin)

This and that

— Don't know if we're completely ready for this sentence, but here goes: Baseball is about to complete it's new labor deal and continue to be the shining example of labor tranquility among professional sports leagues. Wow, that was hard to type.

— Your Tennessee Vols basketball team thumped La.-Monroe with an overpowering second half in an 85-62 win Wednesday night. For the second-consecutive game point guard Trae Golden looked big time, leading the Vols with 29 points. Golden, who is from the 5-at-10's old stomping grounds in Cobb County, Ga., and by all accounts from hometown contacts was unstoppable in high school at McEachern, has seemed to be much, Much, MUCH more comfortable with new coach Cuonzo Martin. More impressively than Golden's scoring was his passing Wednesday. He finished with nine assists and is averaging 10 per game. Did any Vol ever have nine assists in Bruce Pearl's tenure? Seriously.

— Ole Miss has suspended some football players, including quarterback Randall Mackey, for violating team rules before facing top-ranked LSU. There has been no reports whether Mackey violated team rules on purpose in an effort to miss the beating the LSU pass rush puts on opposing QBs, but here's saying that move deserves consideration for the Smarty-McSmarty Pants, scholar-athlete of the week award.



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    Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow (15) runs during the first half of an NFL football game against the Kansas City Chiefs Sunday, Nov. 13, 2011, in Kansas City, Mo. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)

Today's question

One of our favorite things about the good people in Las Vegas, Nevada is that they'll take a bet on just about anything. Whether it's how many players will be arrested the week of the Super Bowl or what will happen with the Dow Jones Industrial Average the day after.

In the land of prop bets, anything goes.

Well, Vegas' attention has turned to Tim Tebow tonight as the 2nd-year quarterback is set to take on the New York Jets in Denver.

Here's a few of the bets regarding Tebow for tonight's game:

— How many passes will Tim Tebow complete? Over/Under: 11

— How many rushing yards will Tim Tebow have? Over/Under: 55

— How many passing yards will Tim Tebow have? Over/Under: 120

Here's today's question. How many more years will Tim Tebow draw a paycheck from the NFL?

Less than 3 years

3-5 years

6-9 year

10 or more years

Feel free to give your thoughts on the other Vegas Tebow bets for tonight's game as well.

about Jay Greeson...

Jay was named the Sports Editor of the Times Free Press in 2003 and started with the newspaper in May 2002 as the Deputy Sports Editor. He was born and raised in Smyrna, Ga., and graduated from Auburn University before starting his newspaper career in 1997 with the Newnan (Ga.) Times Herald. Stops in Clayton and Henry counties in Georgia and two years as the Sports Editor of the Marietta (Ga.) Daily Journal preceded Jay’s ...

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Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.
Redlegs11 said...

Lets have a little bit of background music before we answer the question about Tebow and how many years he will draw a paycheck. Maestro please ....

Mark Brunell still drawing paycheck into his 19th season despite throwing 30 or less passes in six of those seasons.

Brad Gradkowski is in his 6th year and has never thrown more than 41 times in any season.

Seneca Wallace is in his 9th year and in his five of those seasons completed 19 or less passes.

Charlie Batch and Dennis Dixon both draw paychecks from the Steelers. Batch is in his 14th season and Dixon his 4th season.

Dan Orlovsky is in his 7th year. Luke McCown his 8th. Tyler Palko, who will start for the Chiefs this week, came into the league undrafted in 2007 and sat out the entire 2008 year.

Kyle Boller is in his 9th season and Billy Volek his 12th and Jon Kitna is in his...gulp...15th year. And yes, David Carr still plays (10th) as does Rex Grossman (9, Shaun Hill (10), Matt Flynn (4), Chris Redman (12), Derek Anderson (7), Richard Bartel (5), AJ Feeley (11).

That's a whole lot of nothingness still play in the NFL today. Somehow or another I think Tebow will be around for as long as Tebow wants to draw a paycheck.

November 17, 2011 at 10:40 a.m.
eljefe said...

First, you're a big man telling me to "zip it" 1000 miles away over the intertubes. I also noticed you did not tell Weena or 33wannnabe to "zip it." If yer scared ... say "scared." Second, Tebow is less than 3. My argument is the honeymoon will end quickly with the fans. Right now, the argument for him to play and start is "How could we be worse with Tebow at starting QB?" That question will not take more than 3 years to answer. Third, I am taking UT 15-14. I was going to take 17-14 but "memphisexile" doesn't need me riding his coat tails or any "who is the winner controversy."

My potential mail bag question is this: Assume Oklahoma State does not handle its business against Oklahoma. I know and share your feelings about a re-match between LSU and Alabama. So, who are your BCS championship matchups and why? I'll also add: I think Oregon should be excluded as a finalist for already losing so poorly to LSU no matter how they are playing now. I also believe that to be true even if LSU loses and does not get selected for the Championship.

In the interest of full disclosure, I do not like the Ducks or those God-forsaken uniforms.

November 17, 2011 at 10:48 a.m.
Cjoyner said...

Sorry about the USM-UCF close call, Jay, but it was worth it to watch O'Leary's face go from a rustic pink to purple. For the record, I'd stay away from the 19-point spread in tonight's USM-UAB game. UAB is awful but playing with house money and playing in Legion Field is like whistling through a graveyard. Tough luck for Ole Miss. I'm sure they had this date circled.

November 17, 2011 at 11:01 a.m.
patrickd said...

Pdavi's announcing his presence with authority!

Vandy - 24 Tennessee - 7

November 17, 2011 at 11:39 a.m.
jgreeson said...

Redlegs —

Excellent points. Wow, we had a Richard "The Rich Man" Bartel reference. Well-played indeed.

Maybe we should have asked, how long will Timmy T be a starting QB? (Because here's saying he could make a roster as a fullback/special teams/leadership stud for a decade.)

Who you got, UT or Vandy?

Jefe —

We'd been missing you and thought we'd throw out a salute. Those other yahoos didn't get a mention because, well, you know where some of the bodies are buried. Plus, Weena will always be Weena.

Nice question. It's most definitely mailbag-i-licious.

You're in the contest, and 15-14 looks pretty good.

CJ —

No sweat on the Golden Eagles. You guys are having an awesome year. We're even hearing that a SoMiss-Miss State bowl game could be a possibility (provided Miss State gets there).

Who you got in UT-Vandy?

PDavi —

Wow. You know that Vandy has not beaten UT by more than a TD since 1959, right?

OK, you're in.

— 5-at-10

November 17, 2011 at 12:13 p.m.
BIspy4 said...

Mmphhmph mmmphphh mmphmph. yes, I know I sound like Kenny from South Park. But somebody bigger than me told me to zip it.

November 17, 2011 at 12:20 p.m.
Cjoyner said...

Jay, put me down UT 20, Vandy 17 as the Vols dump the smart kids in a trashcan once again.

November 17, 2011 at 12:20 p.m.
jgreeson said...

Spy —

We're all good. You so called Tiger, didn't you?

CJ —

You're in. We've always hated it when the jocks pick on us smart kids.

BlueOval — Vandy 24-10

McPell — UT 23-21

Jharvey1984 — UT 13-10

FEChancellor — Vandy 20-16

Spy — Vandy 20-6

Memphisexile — UT 17-14

Addictedtochalupa — Vandy 17-10

Jesse — Vandy, 21-7

Etsubuc13 — UT, 20-13

BTG — UT, 13-10

scole023 — UT, 30-10

OTWatcher — UT, 20-14

ThatIDoKnow — Vandy, 21-6

JordanRules — Vandy, 23-14

WarEagle — UT, 28-21

CJ — UT 20-17

Jefe — UT 15-14

Celtic Vol — UT 24-21

SportTalk's Quake — UT 20-16

SportTalk's Dr. B (he's a doctor after all) — UT, 23-13

SportTalk's Cowboy Joe — Vandy, 17-16

TFP SEC ace David Paschall — Vandy, 25-22

TFP UT ace Downtown Patrick Brown — TBA

TFP ace columnist Mark Wiedmer — TBA

TFP ace Deputy Sports Editor Ron Bush — Vandy, 24-13

5-at-10 — TBA

Mrs. 5-at-10 — TBA

November 17, 2011 at 12:45 p.m.
BIspy4 said...

It wasn't Tiger I called....

"Hello, Elin ... hey, it's Spy again. Just seein' how you're doin ... yeah ... you know, if you're not busy this weekend ...."

And at least eljefe didn't say you were big in bathrooms. At which you could have responded you were working on the African Anteater Dance. But I digress....

November 17, 2011 at 12:56 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

I have never commented here but I have a pick. Vandy 17-14. and by the way. It SHOULD be a rematch between LSU and Bama. ROLL TIDE.

November 17, 2011 at 1:15 p.m.
chas9 said...

5'll get ya 10--Nine assists (against who?) is good, but is it as good as Anthony Davis' seven blocks against Kansas?

The Niner Tennessee Top Ten will be released each Monday morning.

Mailbag question: What do the LL's stand for in Cool J's name? Hint: multiple answers will receive credit.

November 17, 2011 at 1:16 p.m.
jgreeson said...

Spy —

When Elin's restraining order against you expire. That's good news all the way around.

"We see no boy here."

Nurseforjustice —

Welcome to the show and you're welcome to swing by here anytime. Especially with the flexing smiley band-aid guy in your picture window. Well-played indeed.

You're in, and while the Tide and LSU may meet for the title, we still believe you should have to be a conference champ to play for the national champ.

Although, there is a scenario in which LSU and Bama meet in the BCS title game where neither is the SEC champ. Listen up — let's say Oregon loses to USC this week, Oklahoma beats OSU and Alabama thumps Auburn and LSU beats Arkansas. Then let's suppose UGA sneaks by LSU in the SEC title game. Well, the computers love LSU and Bama and there's a real chance that Georgia as the SEC champ could go to the Sugar and LSU and Bama could go to the BCS title game. (And yes, that would be three SEC teams in the BCS, which is supposed to be outlawed but if they finish 1-2 in the BCS poll and have a conference title tie-in, it would happen).

9er —

This question is too good to hold.

The answer of course is "Ladies Love Cool James," but we're open for BID-ness on all guesses (and remember this is a family-oriented, Interweb-based sports column).

Anthony Davis is a beast and UK is awesome. Didn't know you bleed BlueGrass Blue.

What's your pick?

— 5-at-10

November 17, 2011 at 1:58 p.m.
eastridge8 said...

What I don't understand about Tiger is he played so great when he was leading a multi-double life and now that's it's all out in the open he couldn't play Gooney golf if he had to. NO pressure and you can't play worth 2 cents? Doesn't make "cents" to me...

I say UT 23-Vandy 21.

I think Timmy T. out in 3 yrs....when NFL truly realizes how much he CAN'T contribute.

November 17, 2011 at 2:23 p.m.
jgreeson said...

ER8 —

You and the 5-at-10 share the exact same view. We thought Tiger without all the lies and all the swirling stories — think how many lies and different alibis and women he was juggling at any given moment before the 2009 wreck — Tiger could focus on golf and would become simply destroy everyone. Like winning three-or-more majors a year for five years before retiring to an island in the with a harem.

Instead, the revelations stripped away his air of invincibility and he has never been able to convince himself — or his competitors — that he's invincible anymore.

You're in the contest.

— 5-at-10

November 17, 2011 at 2:46 p.m.
Bdub13 said...

I finally have decided to dip my toe in on this contest and say Tenn 27-10. Why? Cause it's Vandy. And I'm an optimist. And it's Vandy, no matter how much they have improved this year.

November 17, 2011 at 2:59 p.m.
chas9 said...

We're all Wildcats now.

November 17, 2011 at 3:02 p.m.
Musicman375 said...

I'm not sure if you saw my post on yesterday's thread this morning before this thread went up, but I'm picking Vandy 14-10.

Also, I'm not a believer in a team being required to win a conference title game to make it to the BCS title game. What about all the teams who don't have a conference title game available? Kind of a double standard there, right? I HATE THE BCS!!!!! This is yet another great reason why we need a playoff system. 5-at-10, please fix the college football postseason!

November 17, 2011 at 3:04 p.m.
fechancellor said...

Good analysis here by Jay: Tiger can’t ham and egg worth a damn. (Oh, I did think I said that)

Worse for TW the format was Alternate Shot, golf’s way of destroying partnerships on course while everyone is drinking enough beer to sooth a the perfect ulcer built as a result of the grinding suspense of partner’s shots and putts gone awry.

Woods singles match may reveal more about his game.

November 17, 2011 at 3:04 p.m.
jgreeson said...

UPDATED UT-Vols Throwdown Showdown

BlueOval — Vandy 24-10

McPell — UT 23-21

Jharvey1984 — UT 13-10

FEChancellor — Vandy 20-16

Spy — Vandy 20-6

Memphisexile — UT 17-14

Addictedtochalupa — Vandy 17-10

Jesse — Vandy, 21-7

Etsubuc13 — UT, 20-13

BTG — UT, 13-10

scole023 — UT, 30-10

OTWatcher — UT, 20-14

ThatIDoKnow — Vandy, 21-6

JordanRules — Vandy, 23-14

WarEagle — UT, 28-21

CJ — UT 20-17

Jefe — UT 15-14

Celtic Vol — UT 24-21

Bamabison — Vandy 21-20

ERidge8 — UT, 23-21

Heated — UT 30-20

5-10Fan — Vandy 24-14

SportTalk's Quake — UT 20-16

SportTalk's Dr. B (he's a doctor after all) — UT, 23-13

SportTalk's Cowboy Joe — Vandy, 17-16

The Show's Chris Goforth — Vandy 20-14

TFP SEC ace David Paschall — Vandy, 25-22

TFP UT ace Downtown Patrick Brown — TBA

TFP ace columnist Mark Wiedmer — TBA

TFP ace Deputy Sports Editor Ron Bush — Vandy, 24-13

TFP prep ace Stephen Hargis — Vandy 27-17

5-at-10 — TBA

Mrs. 5-at-10 — TBA

November 17, 2011 at 3:04 p.m.
jgreeson said...

9er —

The Wildcats are going to be nasty come March. NASTY.

What's your pick?

BDub —

We love optimistic college football fans. Love them. In fact we're so optimistic that we think Auburn has a chance to hang with Alabama for most of the first quarter. So there.

You're in, and you're right, Vandy is still Vandy.

FE to the C —

Fair point about the alternate shot stuff. Do you have any confidence at all in Woods in singles matches?

RE-UPDATED UT-Vols Throwdown Showdown

BlueOval — Vandy 24-10

McPell — UT 23-21

Jharvey1984 — UT 13-10

FEChancellor — Vandy 20-16

Spy — Vandy 20-6

Memphisexile — UT 17-14

Addictedtochalupa — Vandy 17-10

Jesse — Vandy, 21-7

Etsubuc13 — UT, 20-13

BTG — UT, 13-10

scole023 — UT, 30-10

OTWatcher — UT, 20-14

ThatIDoKnow — Vandy, 21-6

JordanRules — Vandy, 23-14

WarEagle — UT, 28-21

CJ — UT 20-17

Jefe — UT 15-14

Celtic Vol — UT 24-21

Bamabison — Vandy 21-20

ERidge8 — UT, 23-21

Heated — UT 30-20

5-10Fan — Vandy 24-14

BDub13 — UT 27-10

Musicman375 — Vandy 14-10

SportTalk's Quake — UT 20-16

SportTalk's Dr. B (he's a doctor after all) — UT, 23-13

SportTalk's Cowboy Joe — Vandy, 17-16

The Show's Chris Goforth — Vandy 20-14

TFP SEC ace David Paschall — Vandy, 25-22

TFP UT ace Downtown Patrick Brown — TBA

TFP ace columnist Mark Wiedmer — TBA

TFP ace Deputy Sports Editor Ron Bush — Vandy, 24-13

TFP prep ace Stephen Hargis — Vandy 27-17

5-at-10 — TBA

Mrs. 5-at-10 — TBA

— 5-at-10

November 17, 2011 at 3:15 p.m.
fechancellor said...

Jay,

It could come down to which way the brackets fall. Adam Scott and the unflappable Steve could induce enough yips to force Woods to snap hook every drive.

Tiger could lead off the singles, where there is less pressure to perform, yet players the caliber of a Y.E. Yang might just await Woods from the other side.

I can see Tiger, if focused, winning the early morning draw, but my confidence is not high. This seems the best scenario for TW, none the less.

November 17, 2011 at 3:34 p.m.
BIspy4 said...

Today, the Spy has developed his own version of the fabled and legendary "Greeson X."

November 17, 2011 at 4:29 p.m.
fechancellor said...

Bispy, I'll bight, what's with this Spy stuff?

November 17, 2011 at 4:54 p.m.
BIspy4 said...

An abbreviated moniker given to me by the one of the greatest coaches in Georgia high school basketball history.

November 17, 2011 at 6:36 p.m.
jgreeson said...

FE to the C —

As for TW, well, it feels like the folks that want PGA golf to be fun again are trying to find scenarios where Tiger can return to something resembling his former self. Not unlike NASCAR needing that larger than life personality that is among the favorites to win week-in and week-out — Dale Sr. applies, Dale Jr. not so much — golf needs a polarizing figure.

Tiger was that. Can he be it again? Only if he is a factor again on Sundays.

And we can attest to Spy's spory. He was so good at newspapering, some coaches thought he should be a spy.

— 5-at-10

November 17, 2011 at 8:11 p.m.
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