published Sunday, September 11th, 2011

Ten Years Past

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Selah said...

Go Clay!!!

September 11, 2011 at 12:28 a.m.

well gud nite mrB. im sur sorry ya culdnt draw or color better fur 9-11-11. maybe your cryin alot too like me. cryin and cryin fur those kids an famlies wit no daddys or mamas or granny or such kin.

Ps mrB why dont yur fatmans jus zip up his coat real hard? i know he can do it! or is he maybe librall and soo mad still at po mrBushman fur not bein as compassion to all those librulls? why- do ya thunk all the dead peoples care abot his coat? or a cartoon abot them? no they wuld say Dont spred hate mrB enuff enuff!!

September 11, 2011 at 12:28 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

The Wart gets paid for this?

September 11, 2011 at 12:30 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Not bad (for a change). Why division? Because the government does too much. I am divided from those who keep their hands in my pocket. I am divided from people who, not knowing me, tell me what to do. President Bush did too much of this, and President Obama does yet more. Want unity? Try uniTea. Businesses have to keep their customers happy, but government gets paid and prints money and borrows money whether its 'customers' are happy or not. So shrink the government sector, the sector of greed, and enlarge the business sector, the sector of earnings. Let State Farm and AllState and Geico license cars and drivers. (Too often, of course, businesses, like any other interest group, use government to discourage competition. That's divisive; that's pocket-picking. Let anyone compete with lawyers and doctors and taxi drivers and barbers.) Jesus is libertarian, and Stalin did not achieve unity by squeezing, though he suppressed dissent for awhile.

September 11, 2011 at 12:37 a.m.
trburrows said...

what does his cap say? cant read it

September 11, 2011 at 12:51 a.m.
alprova said...

"Don't Tread On Me."

September 11, 2011 at 1:12 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

COMEDY IS TOUGH

Leave it to the professionals, Huck. You are obviously unaware of the fine line between witty and stupid. Mark Twain made it look easy so please stop trying to write like him.

So, when democrats stood with the republican president after 9/11/2001 that was okay. That was expected. That was patriotic.

But in 2008 when republicans made unseating the newly elected democratic president their number one legislative priority, what was that? Patriotic? Or was it just plain old impure politics.

How can any of you tea baggers - yes TB, the cap reads 'don't tread on me' - blame Obama for the partisan divide? When has a republican openly supported anything this president even suggested? Even policies that were originally republican positions?

Limric nailed you guys: a hoard of zombies stumbling up a misty hill. Thirsty. Relentless.

Must have TEA.

September 11, 2011 at 1:27 a.m.
nucanuck said...

We weren't united before 9/11 Clay, and even after 9/11 we were only united for a brief moment in time by an event that caused us to spin out of control into a frenzy of bad, self-destructive choices. Our losses ten years ago now pale by what we have done and are still doing to ourselves.

The divide is so great, the proposed remedies (from both sides), so far off the mark, that we apparently must continue to fall toward an unknown destination. It's as though we can do nothing to help ourselves until we reach a miserable bottom.

We should honor this day by trying to find understanding in the thinking of those we oppose. We have to find a way to stop the self-destructive behavior.

September 11, 2011 at 1:37 a.m.
rolando said...

Two 9/11 commemorative cartoons by a much better, 2-time Pulitzer winner, Steve Breen.

Mr Breen -- unlike the partisan anti-unity, pro-division Bennett -- on two separate days published these commemorative cartoons:

See http://townhall.com/political-cartoons/2011/09/10/91701 and http://townhall.com/political-cartoons/stevebreen

The latter cite includes Mr Breen's bio.

September 11, 2011 at 2:35 a.m.
rolando said...

The Muslim thought-process is simple; Kill Americans. We understand that perfectly well. It is their turn to do the "understanding".

The way to stop them is also simple....man up, stop apologizing and kissing ring's, and kill their leadership out of hand just as you would any other rabid dog -- whether from 30,000 ft up or 6,000 miles away.

That they will understand.

September 11, 2011 at 2:42 a.m.

We were as united as it's humanly possible on 9/11. All sorts of people working side by side at the World Trade Center in a pretty darn good economy. The Muslim terrorists didn't like that. We're not the ones who have to change, they do. This is the best cartoon he can come up with for this occasion? Seems to me we've never been less united than we are now under our current president.

September 11, 2011 at 6:01 a.m.
anniebelle said...

I never thought I would live long enough to see this nation turn into a mass of whining crybabies. 19 men with boxcutters attacked us on 9-11 and much to the Teatards dismay, they were not from Iraq. We attacked Iraq because we could and you baggers support this crap! And blondbutdumbasaboxofrocks can't figure out why the Muslims hate us for being in their lands, stealing their oil, killing innocent men, women and children. Go figure. This country is doomed because or arrogance and ignorance!

September 11, 2011 at 6:17 a.m.
EaTn said...

After 9/11 our President stood at the WTC site and inspired us to become the America we believed in. Shortly after that he and his cronies realized that they could use the attack as an excuse to spend tons of debt on frivolous "homeland security" non-essential stuff and wage a non-related war in Iraq wasting tons more of debt on special interest contractors. Unfortunately, because of these obscene political incidences my thoughts of 9/11 do not bring back patriotic memories.

September 11, 2011 at 6:36 a.m.
woody said...

On a much lighter note.."Happy Grandparents Day!"

Move it along..Woody

September 11, 2011 at 7:09 a.m.
Robert59 said...

Excellent thinking person's cartoon! Unfortunately, many of those who bought those jackets & hats will not get any of the subtle points; they also bought into the Iraq war rhetoric without much thinking. War is not the answer! Comment by EaTn is Right On!

September 11, 2011 at 7:23 a.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "The Muslim thought-process is simple; Kill Americans. We understand that perfectly well. It is their turn to do the "understanding"."

That is an ignorant, across the board, statement. Nothing more need be said. You are not "we." You hold that opinion as a minority of like-minded people, equally ignorant in their own right.

"The way to stop them is also simple....man up, stop apologizing and kissing ring's, and kill their leadership out of hand just as you would any other rabid dog -- whether from 30,000 ft up or 6,000 miles away.

That they will understand."

You bemoan the killing of Americans, while advocating the murder of some imagined leadership of the Muslim population that you think has it in for you.

It would be humorous, if not for the fact that it exposes your hypocritical nature, based in nothing more solid than water.

There are currently about 4 million Muslims who live in the United States. How many of them have killed Americans? Isolated instances of murder come to mind. On the other hand, I can name many people off the top of my head, who claimed to be Christians, that have murdered others in the name of God.

Grow a brain and focus on reality once in awhile.

September 11, 2011 at 7:28 a.m.
potcat said...

I was thinking Huckleberryfriend was writing in Huckleberry Hounds voice, my favorite cartoon. Whoever he's trying to imitate,old Huck would not be amused and Mark Twain would surely kill him with words. Twain had the opposite opinions of "friend" and he would be scorned for such ignorance.

Educate yourself about 9/11, theres a lot of blame to go around on this day and America hopefully has learned one important thing, when you are attacked,you don't go to another Country that had absolutely nothing to do with the attack and start a war!!! That can never be forgiven or forgotten

September 11, 2011 at 7:44 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Apparently it is anti-American to tell the truth. A good commentator - whether done with print or with cartoons - challenges us to face reality. Clay's cartoon today does that. We, as a nation, would be better off if we spent today in quiet introspection rather than re-affirming our fantasy.

Andrew, Jesus is the Christ. Your instance that Jesus is libertarian is blasphemous!

September 11, 2011 at 7:48 a.m.
dougmusn said...

I believe we can sum up the entire problem highlighted by this cartoon with an understanding of apostacy. [a·pos·tate n. One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.] By tightly aligning ourselves in one group, whether Christians, Tea Partiers, Muslims, Republicans or whatever, we feverishly struggle to build a wall around our tribe. Then, we spend a great deal of energy metaphorically throwing everyone else over that wall. A Manichean Us v. Them view of the world only makes our world smaller and less rich. I no more believe (note to Rolando) all Muslims seek to kill Americans than I believe all women are bad drivers or all white men have no rhythm. Clearly SOME Muslims seek to kill Americans just as some Americans seek to kill Americans (e.g. Timothy McVeigh). Another American, Rodney King, after the 1992 LA riots, asked the camera a still-relevant question: "People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?"

If you want wars, if you want conflict, build walls. We are each of us chain-builders like the fictional Jacob Marley: I wear the chain I forged in life,' replied the Ghost.I made it link by link, and yard by yard; I girded it on of my own free will, and of my own free will I wore it. Is its pattern strange to you?'

Build a wall-forge a link for a chain or tear these things apart. The choice is ours.

September 11, 2011 at 8:01 a.m.
fairmon said...

Islam may be like protestants with so many denominations you can't put them all in the same bucket. There is a radical Islamic element that would destroy every American if they could. There is a radical American element that would destroy every Muslim if they could. I think Sharia law and their beliefs are stupid but I also think snake handling and other weird behavior in church is stupid.

I never saw any indication on 9/11 or after that republicans suddenly said big centralized government with a dependent society is good nor did democrats say smaller less intrusive states rights government is good. Americans are like two brothers that fight and argue with each other but if an outsider attacks one of them they will come together and beat the hell out of the attacker.

September 11, 2011 at 8:05 a.m.
fairmon said...

Liberals are convinced conservatives hold their views due to ignorance and greed. Conservatives are convinced liberals hold their views due to ignorance and greed.

anniebelle said....

This country is doomed because of arrogance and ignorance!

This could be true but is being doomed due to those that agree with her or those that don't.

I don't understand the division with some leaders like Maxine Waters encouraging unity of purpose with statements like "the tea party can go straight to hell". No doubt she is a very persuasive debater.

September 11, 2011 at 8:34 a.m.
sandyonsignal said...

What happened? It used to come together.

Ten years later, all we have to show is uber -partisanship and obesity. The Patriot Act, two wars, xenophobia, massive debt are what came from this national tragedy. We can thank Cheney, Rummie and Bush for ruining our once highly regarded country.

September 11, 2011 at 8:45 a.m.
sandyonsignal said...

Blondie, do you remember the stolen 2000 election? Bush was not popular and our country was not united then, either. It was worsened though because of him and his cronies over the next ten years.

Blame Bush, Blondie.

September 11, 2011 at 8:48 a.m.
GreenKepi said...

The older I get the wiser POGO seems to get. "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US.” Just look how divided we are as we read these comments; railing against each other…those who are in the ‘same’ boat as us….

September 11, 2011 at 8:51 a.m.
fairmon said...

soandyonsignal

You obvioulsy think the action taken and continues was wrong. What should have been done then and now in response to the attack?

September 11, 2011 at 8:54 a.m.
fairmon said...

If eveyone agreed would we still have a two party system? What country could we look to as a model where the people all agree on a political philosophy?

September 11, 2011 at 8:56 a.m.
sandyonsignal said...

For starters, Bush should have heeded the warning "Al-Queda Determined to Strike the U.S." instead he ignored it. After the attack, instead of letting our forces finish the job at Tora-Bora and focus on ridding Al-Queda. Bush focused on a new war and went where the oil is: Iraq.

He never pressured the Bin Ladens or Saudis for justice. Instead, he pressured Americans to give up our freedoms and constitutionally protected rights while he protected the Royal Saudis.

Iraq was a contrived and illegal war and the rest of the world knew it. He tried to shame the French, but in the end it was our country that became known as the bullies of the world. We attacked a peaceful nation for no other reason than greed. The breaking of laws and treaties to strong arm our way to oil under the guise of terror turned us into barbarians. That's our Bush... a war criminal. Shame, shame, shame.

September 11, 2011 at 9:04 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I don't think it is necessary to agree. I do think that getting others to agree with you and vote for your agenda by stereotyping and demonizing others is wrong. The split in this country can be attributed to stereotypes: Promiscuous black welfare mom, toothless obese white bigoted ignoramus, ivory tower clueless academic elitist, greedy arrogant immoral corporate CEO, goofy birkenstock-wearing tree hugger, towel-headed Muslim jihadist. This is how Hitler got people to consider Roma and Jews as less than human, this is how the FCLS keeps its followers in fear of the outside world, it's how Americans were able to accept the denial of civil rights to Japanese Americans during WWII, and how blacks were kept under the thumb of whites after emancipation. Stereotyping is the tool of the propagandist, and it divides a population based on fear. Hell, it divided my own family, who parroted right wing claims and applied them to me and my spouse, without realizing that a) they are not accurate and b) are terribly hurtful. In the end we are all just folk, Americans in all our diversity.

The problem has grown not because of 9/11. It has grown because of the internet and other forms of media. No matter how extreme your views, you can quickly find others that share them and plenty of skewed anecdotes to reinforce them. You can cherry pick your information, avoiding if you want any balanced view. The explosion of crazy on the internet is astounding, and we as American think that, if it is in Times New Roman and we agree with it, it must be gospel truth. We no longer temper our ideas with interaction with others. Politicians capitalize on this and feed it with streams of skewed information. It's heartbreaking, and I think it's to blame for the standstill at the fed level. There can be no compromise when we are all working with extremes.

September 11, 2011 at 9:21 a.m.
miraweb said...

Well done, Clay! The older I get the more convinced I am there is only one prayer that ever matters: God bless us, everyone. Thank you for bringing back the memory of how united we really are as a country when the chips are down - despite every effort by two-bit politicians to 'divide and conquer.'

September 11, 2011 at 9:22 a.m.

Sandy,

No, that's a myth. Al Gore lost the election. All sorts of recounts proved he did not win Florida. He did not win his own state, which is what really cost him. Many of you gloss over that. You Democrats need to let go of it. Your hatred for the Bush-Cheney years is consuming you.

Many people took a chance on Obama, like me, but now are very sorry that we voted for him. I'm extremely disapointed in Obama and often angry because I voted for him. I feel like a sucker. But I don't hate the man like you Democrats hate George W. Bush. It's rather disturbing.

If I remember right, after 9/11 we were "unified" for about 2 weeks, then it seemed to me that Democrats were eager to blame George W. Bush for it. I think Democrats became petty and were almost jealous because Bush was president at that moment in history. To blame Bush for 9/11 is the just soooo nutty. You can make a better case that Bill Clinton let Bin Laden slip through his hands and allow AL Quada to grow in the 1990's.

September 11, 2011 at 9:49 a.m.
harrystatel said...

In honor of all religions, I offer this prayer.

O Great and Mysterious Oz! Whose name causes munchkins to tremble, Lollipop Guilds to sing, and the Good Witch Glenda to float in a bubble, we tremble before thy Wizardly Ways.

Guide us along the path of the Yellow-Brick Road to the Emerald City where thou dwelleth behind the curtain, pulling the levers that reveal thy scary face so we might lose all reason and worship thee.

In thy powerful hoodwinkery, we abandon all common sense and ask thou find us worthy of existence through thy weird and confusing shenanigans.

We beseech thee to protect us from the Wicked Witch of the West and deliver us from Flying Monkeys for thy sake.

We pray thou Eminence provide us with great buckets of water so we might melt thine enemies.

If we should rise above your continuing jealousy, give us a humorous heart to laugh at thy follies, courage to speak the truth about thy falsities, and brains to reason that thou art a fairy tale.

Merciful Oz, when we take the big balloon into the sky, may we go back home Kansas, look upon the heavenly visage of Auntie Em, and play forever with Toto.

In the name of Frank Baum, we humbly say,

There’s no place like home.

Amen

If only all religions would abandon their false gods and accept mine. Otherwise, I might have to kill them.

September 11, 2011 at 10:01 a.m.
Rufus_T_Firefly said...

In reading the names of the people that passed that day, you begin to understand the scale of the devastatio­n.

Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Jews, Arabs, Young people, Old People, Christians­, Muslims, and Atheists were all needlessly killed.

And Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Jews, Arabs, Young people, Old people, Christians­, Muslims, and Atheists also died trying to save the lives of their American brothers and sisters...­.

September 11, 2011 at 10:16 a.m.
rick1 said...

bbnd: I think you may be wasting your time trying to talk with sandyonsignal, after all she believes Iraq was a peaceful nation under Saddam Hussein.

September 11, 2011 at 10:17 a.m.
patriot1 said...

Spot on blonde.....to me the toon depicts the patriotism of many...about a mile wide and an inch deep.

September 11, 2011 at 10:43 a.m.
tderng said...

ikeithlu...kudos for your 9:21 post I believe it is most accurate.Using web addresses from some extreme website to prove(?) your argument just makes you look like a puppet or zombie with no original opinion.Some people who post here ridicule someone for posting an opinion without adding links to prove their opinion.When I post here it comes from what I believe,not what someone else tells me to believe.I have been called a liar for having an opinion,for relating things I was told by my father who experienced them.Because of the personal attacks by some posters here it only solidifies my disgust for people who don't really want to have a discourse but only to attack an opposing point of view.There are some posters here who I don't agree with their views but I read their posts because it gives me insight into why they believe the way they do.Others who only attack the person with an opposing viewpoint instead,get no respect from me.There are posters from both viewpoints who do this.

September 11, 2011 at 11:03 a.m.
potcat said...

Sandyonsignal, you can't engage these people in debate, its preaching to the choir.

Go ahead and Let Blondie think she set you straight on Gore- Bush,we know the truth.

Let rick delude himself into believing that Iraq had WMDs, we know they are a hundred Saddams in the world, but the War Proffiteers goes after that country........

Willfull Ignorance patriotism, just doesn't cut it any more.

September 11, 2011 at 11:09 a.m.
LibDem said...

I doubted we were as united after 9/11 as we wanted to think. On the Tuesday following 9/11, I took a flight out of Milwaukee. Equipment that should have carried 80+ had 12-15 passengers. I didn't understand why we weren't united to support our transportation industry, why we weren't queued up to dare thugs to try to scare us.

September 11, 2011 at 11:20 a.m.
OllieH said...

Terrific cartoon, Clay! And judging by the comments, it has accomplished what an editorial cartoon is supposed to- thought and debate.

I suppose that Clay could have approached this occasion as did the cartoonist Rolando referenced, but what would be the point? It seems to me that both of the Steve Breen cartoons did little more than point out the tragic events that took place a decade ago. If you want a cartoon that simply tugs at the heartstrings, one that wallows in the feelings of sadness and loss we all felt on that day a decade ago, go look through the sympathy cards at the drug store. I'm sure you'll find something that makes you feel appropriately depressed.

While Steve Breen chose to draw a cartoon that reflected our nation's mood in 2001, Clay Bennett decided to make a statement about our nation's disposition in 2011. I, for one, find the latter to be a much more constructive use of a cartoonist's time and efforts.

As to the point of the cartoon- after the events on 9/11/2001 the nation did unite. Flags flew from every home, and 'United We Stand' was the mantra of the time. Faced with a enemy that threatened our fellow citizens, we all supported the president in his efforts to defend the country from an uncertain future. Even the opposition party (which had great reservations about some of the measures proposed) backed a president who had declared a war on terrorism .

Today, our country faces another enemy- a crippling recession that has resulted in countless Americans losing their homes, and even more losing their jobs. Faced with an enemy that has robbed 25 million of our fellow citizens of their gainful employment, the president has set out on an effort to defend this country from an uncertain future.

Where is the unity now? Where is the support from the opposition party (despite reservations about some of the measures proposed) for a president who has declared a war on unemployment?

You don't have to answer that- the cartoon above does that quite well.

September 11, 2011 at 11:25 a.m.
miraweb said...

For me, one of the most tender moments of that day was learning about Flight 93 and the actions that very ordinary people on what started as a very ordinary day tried to do to stop carnage. I was reminded of this yesterday when I learned that the funny and gentle man who has been pumping gas into my car for many years drown on a fishing trip with his kids. His six year old son fell into the pond and even though he could not swim, he went in. His son survived. He was lost. An ordinary man on an ordinary day. I will miss him.

September 11, 2011 at 11:32 a.m.
terrybham said...

Great cartoon-keep up the good work.

September 11, 2011 at noon
acerigger said...

Ollieh,thanx for your thoughtful post at 11:25.

Sept. 11 was an awful day, a day of individual heroics and national shame. We’ve used it as an excuse to wage wars, torture prisoners and shred the Constitution. We’ve used it to justify intolerance of different religions and political persuasions. We’ve used the first responders as political props but denied them health coverage for the cancers they got performing their heroic duties.

Since 9/11 our national discourse has sunk to a shameful place. Fear does that. So no, don’t ask me if I’ve forgotten. I wish I could.

September 11, 2011 at 12:17 p.m.
EaTn said...

Last year I drove past the flight school in Florida where a couple or more of the suicide murderers learned to fly (terrorists implies everyone is terrified). I think to myself how did they not raise a sense of suspicion, and how could they be so brainwashed to commit suicide murder on instructions from someone too cowardly to do the deed themselves?

September 11, 2011 at 12:56 p.m.
harrystatel said...

"I think to myself how did they not raise a sense of suspicion, and how could they be so brainwashed to commit suicide murder on instructions from someone too cowardly to do the deed themselves."

Like Obama, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Kissinger, Nixon, Johnson, Roosevelt, Wilson?

September 11, 2011 at 1 p.m.
jimbob said...

Walk softly and carry a big gun.

September 11, 2011 at 1:04 p.m.
rolando said...

"You" is used in the plural throughout this post, alpo.

alpo wrote: "That is an ignorant, across the board, statement. Nothing more need be said. You are not "we.""

No, alpo, you are not "we". "We" understand the Muslim mind-set. "You" do not; I doubt you are even capable of understanding them. You firmly believe that if you only sit down with a sworn enemy, talk earnestly, gaze soulfully into their eyes, hold hands or hug, give them everything they want [including your young boys] and sing "Kumbaya", everything will be just fine.

"You hold that opinion as a minority"

Wait for Nov 2012 and you will see how much of a minority "we are.

"You bemoan the killing of Americans, while advocating the murder of some imagined leadership of the Muslim population..."

You got me, alpo. Yeah, I am an American first and I do care more about Americans -- and those in this country legally -- than I do about any number of foreign tyrants who care only about killing us.

You, on the other hand, place a very high value on the lives of those who would kill us.

I am glad I was able to amuse you -- I thought you beyond all that.

There are currently about 4 million Muslims who live in the United States. How many of them have killed Americans?...I can name many people off the top of my head, who claimed to be Christians, that have murdered others in the name of God.

Name nineteen Americans who, in this century, murdered for that reason, alpo. [Other than convicted serial killers, of course.] ...Guess why I specified 19 Americans?

At least 19 Muslims, on the other hand, have killed 3,000 Americans and other nationalities on US soil in the name of Allah.

I will quote you, "Grow a brain and focus on reality once in awhile".

September 11, 2011 at 1:10 p.m.
EaTn said...

harrystatel--yeah, them too. I think if we had more of real time broadcast war like the Bin Laden raid that politicians and generals had to experience, we would have less sanitary wars that these folks don't have to face the real-life anguish and pain.

September 11, 2011 at 1:12 p.m.
acerigger said...

eatn,the fact is that suspicions WERE raised,but were ignored by the administration.Documented evidence shows that "red-flags" were raised and "alarm bells" were going off throughout the intelligence community(including international entities),all brazenly "pooh-poohed" by the neocons of the Bush,Cheney,Rice,and Rumsfield cabal.

This,to me,is one of the most sickening and infuriating aspects of the 9-11 attacks.

September 11, 2011 at 1:14 p.m.
rolando said...

Being without the Internet news transfers, I am reminded of an old history factoid:

Hearst sent artist Remington to Cuba to illustrate the war there. Remington wired back that there was no war. Hearst told Remington to supply the photos and he [Hearst] would supply the was.

So we ended up going to war with Spain because of a vile newspaper owner.

Would that happen in today's Internet-ruled news world? Not bloody likely.

I, for one, refuse to be captive to the printed media...they had their turn and blew it.

September 11, 2011 at 1:33 p.m.
rolando said...

Memories are so short...they only seem to go back to the day Dubya was sworn in.

September 11, 2011 at 1:34 p.m.
rcastentman said...

If this cartoon is meant to depict a divided and bloated government, then he's spot on. What's changed? Leadership.

September 11, 2011 at 1:49 p.m.
EaTn said...

rolado-- it's true that the seeds of 9/11 were planted before Bush with other administrations making judgement errors even back to the Taliban/Soviet extended clash in Afghanistan.

September 11, 2011 at 3:38 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Acerigger said:”We’ve used the first responders as political props but denied them health coverage for the cancers they got performing their heroic duties. Since 9/11 our national discourse has sunk to a shameful place.”

Indeed, it is an embarrassment and National disgrace, Acerigger. It was bad enough the Republicans filibustered the Health and Compensation Act for so long in an effort to get tax cuts for the rich, but to eliminate the coverage of cancer is really low. I read an article just recently that talks about cancer and N.Y.’s firefighters after 9/11:

“The Lancet Medical Journal report is the first comprehensive cancer study of New York City Firefighters after 9/11. This federally funded study shows firefighters working at the site had ten percent more cancers than the general public and 19 percent more cancers than firemen not involved. In all, there were 263 cancers among almost nine thousand exposed firefighters.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/01/eveningnews/main20100679.shtml

September 11, 2011 at 3:55 p.m.

Blondbutverydumb said

to blame Bush for 9/11 is the just soooo nutty. You can make a better case that Bill Clinton let Bin Laden slip through his hands and allow AL Quada to grow in the 1990's.

Blondi, it is a fact that the Bush-gov ignored the threats of possible attacks!!!!! and the night of 9/11 Rummie-boy already brought Irak into thr game, although it was not clear at all who is to blame. As it turned out that Bin-Laden was behind the attacks Bush still brought artificial arguments for Irak which he could bring on thanks to FOX news propaganda.

And Bush/Cheney used false selective picking of intelligence to go into Irak. Powell had the guts to admit it was the biggest mistake in his life, and you conservatives hate him for that!!!!!

who today mourns for the 500 000 Irakis died???

Bush IS TO BLAME FOR THE DESASTER you dumbie blondie

September 11, 2011 at 3:58 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolano quipped with: "No, alpo, you are not "we". "We" understand the Muslim mind-set."

Rolando, you can only speak for yourself. I seriously doubt that there is anyone else who participates in this forum who holds the Muslim religion responsible to the degree that you do, for what happened a decade ago.

For sure, there are people out there who do share your opinion, but they do so in complete ignorance to the truths and facts surrounding the issue.

""You" do not; I doubt you are even capable of understanding them. You firmly believe that if you only sit down with a sworn enemy, talk earnestly, gaze soulfully into their eyes, hold hands or hug, give them everything they want [including your young boys] and sing "Kumbaya", everything will be just fine."

The difference between yourself and I, is that I believe in considering people to be individuals. I do not believe in grouping people into classes, holding them all responsible for the actions of one or more of their members.

I suspect that you hold all kinds of opinions about people whom you have placed into one class or another, be it due to their skin color, their nationality, their political beliefs, or their religion of choice.

"Wait for Nov 2012 and you will see how much of a minority "we are."

You're confused. Are you now asserting that everyone who will be voting for a Republican candidate shares your views regarding the religion of Islam, in that every Muslim wants to kill Americans?

You're utterly delusional.

"You got me, alpo. Yeah, I am an American first and I do care more about Americans -- and those in this country legally -- than I do about any number of foreign tyrants who care only about killing us."

You're crossing the lines of delusional thought again. Illegal immigration is a totally different topic. What foreign tyrants are you referring to, who have it out for Americans?

"You, on the other hand, place a very high value on the lives of those who would kill us."

You need to define just who it is that you are referring to, in order for me to be able to respond to that accusation. Earlier, you stated that Muslims, in general, were those who wanted to kill Americans. Now you're going off on tangents like "foreign tyrants" and "illegal immigrants."

"Name nineteen Americans who, in this century, murdered for that reason, alpo. [Other than convicted serial killers, of course.] ...Guess why I specified 19 Americans?"

I'm sorry, but you don't get to define the demographics used when making comparisons. Those 19 people killed more than 3,000 people on one day. We all agree that the act was heinous, but it's not as if there is some reward for taking out as many as you can per incident. Each act is heinous, regardless of the number of victims.

Your holding all Muslims responsible and considering them equal to the task of wanting to murder Americans is pointless, illogical, and ignorant.

September 11, 2011 at 4 p.m.

One thought ...

with 9/11 Bin Laden had a clear goal! To attack America and the west and he wanted to provoke a reaction like war, in the optimal case a war against Irak, which brings the fight to an area where al Quaida and the Taliban knew the area. And of course his ultimate goal was to bankrupt the US..

Now after 10 years one has to admit that thanks to the stupidity of Bush and Co Bin Laden achieved his goal.....

September 11, 2011 at 4:29 p.m.
DesertBoomer said...

One of the better explanations I've read, trying to explain why the coat no longer buttons, is articulated here; Link http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all-reflections-gop-operative-who-left-cult/1314907779 * end link

Plenty of blame for both sides, but ultimately the fault lies with We The People.

September 11, 2011 at 4:55 p.m.
miraweb said...

MountainLaurel - you bring up a fine point. We will pay all of the medical expenses for the last warriors coming home from this conflict but we have idiots arguing about which cancers should be covered for the first warriors of this battle?

Those who worked on the pile have earned the support of the country for whatever illnesses they suffer from now on. Playing around with liability guidelines designed delight lawyers and insurance gurus is utterly misguided. If they were there, they have earned our support for as long as they and their families may need it. We can do no less.

September 11, 2011 at 4:57 p.m.
limric said...

Ten years ago tomorrow, the entire world took us in its arms to comfort us in our grief. It would have done anything to help us. Even the Taliban (yes the Tailiban) offered to find bin Laden, if he could be tried in an international court, or if they caught him, under Sharia Law. (Under Sharia Law, he might have been beheaded as killing the elderly, women and children is forbidden in the Holy Qu'ran)

And so it has come to pass.

WE are engaged in endless Orwellian wars. WE have no privacy, WE have no power, WE are subject to search and seizure, We endure the blue glove rape, and many other insults and assaults on our persons. WE are being taught to keep our mouths shut and keep a smile on our face lest WE be put on a potential terrorist watch list (which is secret), or a person of interest expressing unusual ‘Resentment toward Government.’

Violence corporations and the MIC are raking in the profits at an unheard of rate, vacuuming up the crumbs that used to be left for We the little People to fight over, as they now own or control all the rest. And to this end they have succeeded masterfully at diversionary propaganda and have us fighting amongst ourselves.

May the Constitutional Republic of the former United States of America rest in peace, for we are no longer citizens.

All Hail the American Empire to which we more and more resemble subjects – and less e pluribus unum building our own destinies’.

Resquiat in pacem.

September 11, 2011 at 5:07 p.m.

Leave it to the professionals, Huck. You are obviously unaware of the fine line between witty and stupid. Mark Twain made it look easy so please stop trying to write like him. (mrBack-swater)

why im sorry sir thay yall thunk im atryin to be mrTWine. i dont know him is he gud wroter likeyou? i KNOW im not funni but i think your not funni too. yur soo serius mrBLa and so angury wit so meny peoples here. do you and mrsalpoova get married and come here togethur? oh and missannie too is she maried to yall? ooh burnin real bad!

well im who iam and who are you? im sory ya dont like my talkin and i know im no smartist in the hole wurld but do you?

hey! well Jesus luvs you alot and Hes the smartist of all! He doesnt hate like alot of yous guys and gurls do. Hate Hate and its 9-11-11. 1 gurl here says Shame! Shame! and i do too. what is that cawled when yall talk one way and then do sumthin elses? oh hippocrit i know! my daddy wuld a whupped yall gud!

this is 9-11 and ole Tenessie Wullams (who i luv) wuld cry and thin say to yall HEy! Cat git yur hide offn that hot tinni Rooof!! stop ALL this hatin and clamurin and jus GIT!!

September 11, 2011 at 5:21 p.m.
harrystatel said...

In younger days I was a hawk, a war-monger, America-Right or Wrong, a true believer in the US government, Congress, and military history as taught in the then current American history books.

Then I learned that much I "knew" was wrong. One of my influences was Mark Twain. Beyond the wonderful stories of Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn I discovered an author who questioned all authority whether government, church, corporations, or military.

In this very short story, "The War Prayer," Twain asks us to go beyond the patriotic fervor, the waving flags, and the "heroic sacrifices" from the mouths of pandering politicians.

read it here. http://harrystatel.com/?p=1136

Then tell me of "the glory of war."

September 11, 2011 at 5:42 p.m.
SavartiTN said...

Just in case anyone really wants to know why Bin Laden attacked America, here is his entire letter, written in 2002, to explain his action:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

September 11, 2011 at 5:54 p.m.
EaTn said...

limric---sad but your 10 year summary is close.

September 11, 2011 at 6:13 p.m.
alprova said...

Hey Rolando, GWB got it right. Why can't you?

"I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It's practiced freely by many millions of Americans and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends. It is not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists and every government that supports them." -George W. Bush address to congress, Sept. 20, 2001

September 11, 2011 at 6:34 p.m.
ITguy said...

There is a great line in the movie "Rising Sun" where Sean Connery says "in America, you try to fix the blame, in Japan they try to fix the problem". It is much easier to fix the blame, especially when you can blame the 'other', those who have different religion, skin color, culture. Now that ten years have past, perhaps we can stop trying to fix the blame and start to address th problems that are crippling our economy and national will. Before 9/11/01' we thought we were invincible. Guess what, we were not. However we are still the greatest country on the planet, and if we stop trying to fix the blame, and start fixing the problems, we will continue to be the shining light on a hill that will inspire the world. We are all in this together. What harms one, harms all. No man is an island. "Do not ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee".

September 11, 2011 at 8 p.m.

Austrian,

How can a country that produced Mozart produce you as well? I guess there's vulgarity wherever you go. Oh, and also stupidity. And I thought you would cut me some slack because I'm blonde. Oh, well! Auf weidersehen, dummkoph!

September 11, 2011 at 8:02 p.m.
ITguy said...

BBNB,

You remind me of those women who wear the "Sexy" anklets. If you are really Sexy, you don't need an ankle bracelet to let people know. If you are really "not dumb", prove it with your words and actions.

September 11, 2011 at 8:31 p.m.
ArnoldZiffel said...

The 10th anniversary of 9/11 and this is the cartoon we get???????

This is a disgrace!

Here's what 9/11 was about, you leftist boys and girls: Islamic terrorists slaughtered 30000 people in New York City, Pa and D.C. That's Islamic terrorists. You know, Muslims?

There was no war until 9/11. They started it.

We need to remember those who were slaughtered in their tracks and all those brave souls who tried to rescue them. That's what today is about. It's about the American spirit FIGHTING ON!

BUSH THIS AND BUSH THAT, CHENEY THIS AND CHENEY THAT, BLAME BUSH, BLAME CHENEY, BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH!! TEN YEARS LATER and you're still at it. I guess that can only help unite us, huh???? Losers.

September 11, 2011 at 8:46 p.m.
ArnoldZiffel said...

3000, that should be.

September 11, 2011 at 8:47 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Arnold - were the lives of innocents killed by "collateral damage" worth any less than the lives of innocents killed on 9/11? Is the lingering grief of family members of innocent Afghanis and innocent Iraqis any less than the grief experienced by the family members of innocent Americans?

And, in case you hadn't noticed, war has been the defining constant throughout written human history.

September 11, 2011 at 9:06 p.m.
rolando said...

Alpo hypocritically yammered, “Rolando, you can only speak for yourself.

Then, in his next breath his usage of “we" laughably includes “anyone else who participates in this forum” who thinks as he does. What a hypocrite [a synonym for “liberal”].

Alpo somehow would blame Christians for the Twin Tower attacks since he fails to “hold the Muslims responsible”. To paraphrase him when he claims others share his opinions, “they do so in complete ignorance of the truths and facts surrounding the issue.”

“The difference between yourself and I, is that I believe in considering people to be individuals. I do not believe in grouping people into classes, holding them all responsible for the actions of one or more of their members.”

What a crock of BS. You are the first to scream when money confiscated from individual taxpayers is prevented from being given to groups who did nothing to earn the money.

“Are you now asserting that everyone who will be voting for a Republican candidate shares your views?”

No, I am not so asserting…I was merely answering your potshot implying liberals are in the majority. Here’s a tip: you aren’t.

“Illegal immigration is a totally different topic.”

Yes, it is. So why are you bringing it up? Pretty poor attempt at diversion, I must say.

"You need to define just who it is that you are referring to, in order for me to be able to respond to that accusation."

Translation: You haven’t a clue.

“Earlier, you stated that Muslims, in general, were those who wanted to kill Americans.”

Well, alpo it IS a Muslim thread after all now, isn’t it.

"Now you're going off on tangents like "foreign tyrants" and "illegal immigrants."

No, alpo, you brought that up. So far as I know, we have no homegrown tyrants here...although we do have a wannabe in the White House. [PS. That means "tyrants" are "foreign" by definition.]

"I'm sorry, but you don't get to define the demographics used when making comparisons."

No need to apologise, alpo, although I accept it.

And yes, I do get to define the limits to be included in response to your ill-considered and empty-headed claim that you could “name any number” of those who killed “in the name of religion”. I merely called your bluff.

You didn’t name them, did you. You are an unmitigated windbag.

And your “defense of all Muslims… wanting to murder Americans is pointless, illogical, and ignorant.”

September 11, 2011 at 9:27 p.m.
rolando said...

alpo further whined, *"Hey Rolando, GWB got it right. Why can't you?"

He erred, alpo. I did not wish to embarrass him. Besides, he had to mollify those idiots...I don't. Nor do I have his speech-writers...or a teleprompter.

Islam is an oppressive patriarchy still living in the 10th to 12th centuries and one that completely dominates women in all aspects. However you wish to spin it, that is one definition of an evil empire.

September 11, 2011 at 9:47 p.m.
fairmon said...

sandyonsignal...

What a crock. I doubt you have access to the intelligence that those responsible for the safety and well being of America has. I think I rather put my trust in Clinton who passed up a chance to take Bin Laden out and in Bush and now Obama than whoever wrote that drivel you chose to believe. Iraq, a peaceful nation? My only disagreement with the strategy is the worry about collateral damage. Would people feel any different if the 9/11 attack had been with bombs instead of fully fueled planes with the same affect?

I agree with you sandyonsignal and Paul Ryan, bring all our troops home and build a strong defense and make sure the world knows anyone attacking the U.S. will be removed from the earth. Why should we care if they kill each other and mistreat the women?

September 11, 2011 at 9:53 p.m.
alprova said...

Rolando wrote: "Then, in his next breath his usage of “we" laughably includes “anyone else who participates in this forum” who thinks as he does. What a hypocrite [a synonym for “liberal”]."

There are plenty of people who participate in this forum who identify themselves as Conservatives/Republicans. You're not alone in here, except possibly on this one issue. I made no distinction that I was only referring to anyone who agrees with me.

"Alpo somehow would blame Christians for the Twin Tower attacks since he fails to "hold the Muslims responsible". To paraphrase him when he claims others share his opinions, "they do so in complete ignorance of the truths and facts surrounding the issue.""

That makes no sense whatsoever. I have never made any statement blaming Christians for 9/11. I did state that anyone who holds all Muslims responsible for 9/11 does so in complete ignorance of the truths and facts surrounding the issue. Your ignorance is expanding every time you respond.

"What a crock of BS. You are the first to scream when money confiscated from individual taxpayers is prevented from being given to groups who did nothing to earn the money."

Why would I? I'm not drawing so much as one penny from the Government. On the other hand, you depend on the Government for every penny you draw. And you dare call me a hypocrite?

"No, I am not so asserting…I was merely answering your potshot implying liberals are in the majority. Here’s a tip: you aren’t."

Oh, liberals are definitely in the majority. They just don't vote in higher percentages.

"Yes, it is. So why are you bringing it up? Pretty poor attempt at diversion, I must say."

You were the one who brought it up. You added the disclaimer, "those who are in this country legally," in reference to those Americans that you care about.

I previously wrote: "You need to define just who it is that you are referring to, in order for me to be able to respond to that accusation."

"Translation: You haven’t a clue."

This is the point in which you should have name those tyrants with the only thing on their minds is to kill Americans. You failed miserably to do so. Why?

"Well, alpo it IS a Muslim thread after all now, isn’t it."

Uh...no it isn't. That didn't stop you from making it an issue, now did it?

"No, alpo, you brought that up. So far as I know, we have no homegrown tyrants here...although we do have a wannabe in the White House. [PS. That means "tyrants" are "foreign" by definition.]"

More ignorance. I'm not addressing it either.

(To be continued)

September 12, 2011 at 12:17 a.m.
alprova said...

(Continued)

Rolando wrote: "And yes, I do get to define the limits to be included in response to your ill-considered and empty-headed claim that you could "name any number" of those who killed "in the name of religion". I merely called your bluff."

Oh, I see...by discounting all those who had been convicted of their crimes and by discounting those who were considered to be serial killers? Under your criteria, that disallows me to name one person, known to have committed the crime of murdering in the name of God.

"You didn’t name them, did you. You are an unmitigated windbag."

Christopher Speight, Gary Leon Ridgway, Bruce Lee, David Berkowitz, Sampson Kanderayi, Michael F. Griffin, Rev. Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, Eric Robert Rudolph, James Kopp, Scott Roeder, Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, and Kaye Wiggins come to mind. All claimed to be acting on behalf of God and claimed to be Christians. Do you want more?

"And your "defense of all Muslims… wanting to murder Americans is pointless, illogical, and ignorant.""

You're free to hold any pointless opinion that you desire and to be ignorant and illogical while doing so. You're in a very slim minority of people who hold that opinion. Just remember that.

"He erred, alpo. I did not wish to embarrass him. Besides, he had to mollify those idiots...I don't. Nor do I have his speech-writers...or a teleprompter."

That is a stupid answer.

"Islam is an oppressive patriarchy still living in the 10th to 12th centuries and one that completely dominates women in all aspects. However you wish to spin it, that is one definition of an evil empire."

The same thing can be said about Christianity which refers to an ancient Bible too. Bet you didn't think of that before you typed, did you?

September 12, 2011 at 12:20 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

ROLAND GOT IT RIGHT

You must hand it to Rollo; he pointed out that Islam is an oppressive patriarchy still living in the 10th to 12th centuries and one that completely dominates women in all aspects.

He is proud, I suppose, of the Bible's more liberal view of women. It teaches, Be submissive wives; you are to be submissive to your husbands.

The differences between the Bible and the Koran and truly breathtaking. Boy, am I ever glad that god is on OUR side!

September 12, 2011 at 12:57 a.m.
ArnoldZiffel said...

You lefties muddle everything! You and your cartoonist pal take a day of remembrance and turn into a bitchfest! No! I had no idea, MTJohn, that war has been around a long time.

They can have their day of remembernce over there if they want. But let there be no mistake, they started it and all the hell that was unleashed after is their own fault.

September 12, 2011 at 2:26 a.m.
alprova said...

Arnoldziffel wrote: "But let there be no mistake, they started it and all the hell that was unleashed after is their own fault."

If that's the case, then we attacked the wrong countries in retaliation. Those who attacked us were Saudi Arabian citizens for the most part. Three were from other countries. None of the nineteen were from Afghanistan or Iraq.

Why did hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's and Afghanistan's have to die due to the actions of 19 people who were never citizens of those two countries?

Mohamed Atta (Egyptian), Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian), Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian). Marwan al-Shehhi (United Arab Emirati), Fayez Banihammad (United Arab Emirati), Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian), Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian). Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian), Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian), Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian), Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian), Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian). Ziad Jarrah (Lebanese), Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian), Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian), Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).

Osama Bin Laden was found and killed in Pakistan. He had probably been there for years. He laughed at the United States for a decade, while we tore up two nations in search of him.

Nothing related to these two wars has been justified and the longer they go on and the more facts that come out about how our leaders worked to get unmitigated support for them, the alienation of the United States from the rest of the world grows.

While some of you thump your chests in support of what the United States has done, there are many more of us who are ashamed to be considered Americans because of what our leaders have done in the Middle East and still the body count rises.

Some of you think it is a good thing that the United States is feared by the rest of the world. The thing is, that the fear that once represented justifiable acts of war and defense are now viewed as unjustified acts of invasion and nation building.

We all know what eventually happens to bullies. They get their attitudes adjusted. I'm fearful of the nation that takes a stand against the United States one day. It's not a matter of if, but when, which one will it be, and how far will they go in order to force an adjustment of this nation's attitude toward the rest of the world.

September 12, 2011 at 3:13 a.m.

Another thought...

On 9/11 three thousand people died and the US Used all resources to seek revenge..

In the US every four months 3000 people die because of no health insurance ...

... And the conservatives want to make sure that this situation stays unchanged..

...nice logic...

September 12, 2011 at 3:57 a.m.
fairmon said...

The only fit 10 years ago was like every war when a vast majority agreed that seek and destroy the perpetrators was the right thing to do. There was no more unity of other ideologies then than now.

Saddam Husein may have been right when he said; America may win the initial battle but Americans will not accept the long lasting events to follow, they don't have the patience or what it takes to win such a war. As always the protesters are growing in number.

September 12, 2011 at 5:01 a.m.
fairmon said...

Obama's exposure to the Islam religion as a kid doesn't give him any more insight into the mind set of the growing number of the radical and terrorist element than his predecessors. To think there will ever democracy in the middle east may be the height of naivety.

Ron Paul is not electable and probably would not be a dynamic and effective POTUS but he is not as wrong or as extreme as the media and opponents try to paint him. Both parties and the media try to ignore him out of fear people may respond to and accept some of his beliefs.

September 12, 2011 at 5:44 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: Iraq, a peaceful nation? My only disagreement with the strategy is the worry about collateral damage. Would people feel any different if the 9/11 attack had been with bombs instead of fully fueled planes with the same affect?

Exactly what “strategy” and "collateral damage" are you referencing, Harp3339? While I believe Iraq’s Saddam Hussein was a monster, the bottom line is that he was not the monster responsible for the tragic events of 9/11. What did the U.S. gain by switching its focus from Bin Laden to Saddam Hussein? Anything? And was it just to do this?

And what about the thousands and thousands of innocent men, women and children who lost their lives as a result of our invasion of Iraq? Do they not have rights? Aren't they victims? Clearly, they were not responsible for the tragic events of 9/11, and they were also not responsible for the horrendous acts and conduct of Saddam Hussein.

September 12, 2011 at 5:51 a.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "Ron Paul is not electable and probably would not be a dynamic and effective POTUS but he is not as wrong or as extreme as the media and opponents try to paint him."

Uh...yes he is. The one issue that will forever prevent his nomination is his views on the Civil Rights legislation. He has always argued that the legislation sanctioned federal interference in the labor market and did not improve race relations. He once remarked: "The Civil Rights Act of 1964 not only violated the Constitution and reduced individual liberty; it also failed to achieve its stated goals of promoting racial harmony and a color-blind society."

Him and his baby boy both feel that anyone at anytime should be allowed to accept or reject patronage or employment within their establishments of people based upon any criteria they so desire.

"Both parties and the media try to ignore him out of fear people may respond to and accept some of his beliefs."

Far too many already do. Thankfully however, they are among a slim minority.

September 12, 2011 at 6:47 a.m.
fairmon said...

Valedictorian Alprova...I didn't say all his views were good but many are very valid. Do you think the civil rights act achieved racial harmony or a color blind society? It is an appropriate act but falls short.

I can't say neither have said this but what little I have seen and heard from them I never heard this statement you attribute to them; Him and his baby boy both feel that anyone at anytime should be allowed to accept or reject patronage or employment within their establishments of people based upon any criteria they so desire.

September 12, 2011 at 7:46 a.m.
MTJohn said...

mountainlaurel said...While I believe Iraq’s Saddam Hussein was a monster, the bottom line is that he was not the monster responsible for the tragic events of 9/11.

...and a monster of our own creation.

September 12, 2011 at 8:28 a.m.
dude_abides said...

L4F... Alright! We finally found a demographic you don't hate! L4F loves large! Do you LOL when watching the news from those famine stricken areas? Is your racism so total that you can find humor in suffering? Please tell us you really don't find starvation comical. Is that the freedom you libertarians are for... the freedom to laugh at humans dying from malnutrition? Is that the image we should have of libertarians every time you post? I would hate to have you in charge of public relations, if I were them. In fact, I'd probably ask you to shut your flabby cake hole.

September 12, 2011 at 9:15 a.m.
BobMKE said...

The far left in this Country caused the division by political sizing the wars and 911. They used it as a wedge to divide the Country. They were actually rooting for us to lose and some of our elected politicians even said the war is lost. This was and still is disgraceful.

September 12, 2011 at 10:55 a.m.

Just look at you folks and your proud comments...as divided as a fat middle-aged white man's zippered jacket.

A better hat would have stated "Don't Blame on Me" but then Claydope would be terrorized by the Whitehouse goons for moving from the talking points.

September 12, 2011 at 11:02 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BobMKE said: "The far left in this Country caused the division by political sizing the wars and 911. They used it as a wedge to divide the Country."

How so, BobMKE? I'm curious. Specifically, what "wedge" are you referencing here? And what do you mean when you say "political sizing" the wars and 911?

September 12, 2011 at 11:13 a.m.
timbo said...

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

I see these posts the same as I do e-mails at work. In my consulting work and at my company I have a rule about e-mails. They should be for information or confirmation, not confrontation. In a company setting a low-level or high level employee could put something in an e-mail or post that might lead to litagation. That means that you have no control over e-mails and it could be costly.

The second problem is that it leads to the same bickering and rudeness that goes on here on every subject. I had two employees that were e-mailing one another over a minor problem and it got way out of hand. I had to get involved because it was affecting thier work. I made them both sit down and face each other and read their e-mails aloud. It was pretty uncomfortable. What if we did that with some of these aggressive posts and see how that turned out?

If there is a time when a subject needs to be discussed in a confrontational manner it needs to be done in person. At the very least, it needs to be over the phone.

First of all, I am just as guilty as anyone else of insults and sarcasm. I was sucked into breaking my own rules about this kind of thing and I apologize to everyone that I insulted. That is counterproductive.

Now, the problem is that if liberals are true believers and they are passionate about their beliefs there is absolutely no chance of any conservative changing their mind. The same is true of the conservatives. There is almost no chance of convincing liberals that they are wrong. Does anybody on either side think that BRP is going to wake up loving Al Gore and Blackwater 48 is going to send Bush a Christmas card. No chance.

These posts are an indication of where the country is. It is divided down the middle with ideologues in both parties. There will never be real bipartisanship period. That leaves one alternative. Someone has to WIN.

That's right, one side or the other has to be in charge. That means the president and congress have to be the same party affiliation. That way the bitching might not stop, but the bickering will.

This is akin to a train coming down the tracks. We are standing in the middle of the track and one side is safety and the other side is the precipice. That only 100 % chance of dying is standing in the tracks. We are just standing in tracks. Strong I say as a conservative, give the democrats the jobs bill. At least it is a direction. They have the presidency and the Senate. The House needs to give it to them and it can be either giving them enough rope to hang themselves or maybe something good will happen (Not a good chance). Something has to be done, a non-decision in not an option.

So, from now on there will be one post from me on whatever subject and I will ignore all others that are critical. I am going to go back to following my e-mail rules.

September 12, 2011 at 11:19 a.m.
ibshame said...

No one could ever have possibly DISLIKED G. W. Bush more than me. But, on the day of the attack on 9/11, I would have followed him anywhere and believed anything he said. He was handed the immense task of leading this country through one of its most tragic events and there was no one who could have been any prouder than I was to say he was "my president." All of that would start to change in March, 2003 when Bush authorized an attack against a country that had zilch, nada, nothing at all to do with what had happened on 9/11.
Dick Cheney and Bush's followers ramped up the war with accusations of being unpatriotic and treasonous against those who questioned our involvment in going to war against Iraq. People like the former Senator from Georgia, Max Clelland, were portrayed as unpatriotic and sympathetic to Bin Laden (even though Senator Clelland had lost his arms and legs while in service to his country). Swift Boaters in 2004 would spread vicious lies about the medals John Kerry had valiantly won during the Viet Nam War. As the years progressed and it became more and more evident the attack on Iraq was economically draining this country but more importantly, the cost in human lives was an unimaginable drain and loss, I no longer had the same sense of unity I had experienced in the days following the attack on 9/11. When Bush announced he was no longer pursuing Osama Bin Laden and it was learned the United States was engaging in torture @ Guantanomo that pretty much sealed the deal for me. I felt betrayed.
Then came the election of 2008. From the time Barack Obama was sworn in on Jan. 21, 2009, He has been blamed for the mess he INHERITED after 8 years of Bush. He was expected to walk in and in one year make all the troubles of the last 8 just disappear. Well, I don't know of anyone who could have done that. I'm disappointed in some of the things he's done but I know he's only human and he does not walk on water nor does he have any magical powers to make everything better in just one year, two years or even three.
The Repubs and Tea Baggers have made it their mission to oppose anything he does if it does not continue to give to the rich and ignore the middle class and poor. Yet, some of these same people stood silently by while this country was engaged in two UNFUNDED wars, Wall Street ran amok with people's savings and mortgages, greedy bankers were bailed out with a TARP program initiated by Bush and last but certainly not least they campaigned for continued tax cuts for the rich while millions of people lost their jobs. Yeah, my jacket does not fits as it did on 9/11 and I no longer wonder why.

September 12, 2011 at 11:27 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Libertarians4Freedom said: "Hey Clay, you hate fat people? Why don't you go to Somalia or some other African country full of starving marvins? You're gonna love those bony girls."

Your mockery of Somalia’s drought, famine and instability may come back to haunt you one of these days, L4F. Especially if Senator Eric Cantor and his pals continue to cut and chop away at our own disaster relief and first responder resources:

“Yesterday, President Obama requested $5.1 billion to provide disaster relief to communities struggling to recover from recent hurricanes, floods, earthquakes and wildfires. The request includes $500 million in emergency funds FEMA needs to continue to operate effectively through the end of September.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, whose home state of Virginia was hit by an earthquake and Hurricane Irene, is demanding more partisan spending cuts in exchange for approving the request. . . The funds referenced by Cantor’s spokesperson are contained in the House Department of Homeland Security Appropriations bill, which is adamantly opposed by Senate Democrats. Why? The “offsets” contained in the bill are actually massive cuts to first responders. Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-LA) explains:

The House bill slashes funding for grants to equip and train first responders by 40 percent. This is on top of the 19 percent cut in FY 2011. The House defense appropriations bill provides $12.8 billion to train and equip troops and police in Afghanistan — yet the House provides only $2 billion for first responders here at home.

Their proposal also slashes the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s operations by 6 percent at a time when the agency has never been busier. Does it really make sense to pay for response and reconstruction costs from past disasters by reducing our capacity to prepare for future disasters?

In December, Cantor opposed a bipartisan bill “to improve health services and provide financial compensation for 9/11 first responders who were exposed to dangerous toxins and are now sick as a result.” Now, on the eve of the 10th anniversary of 9/11, Cantor is pushing for further cuts to first responders in exchange for disaster relief.

http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2011/09/10/on-911-anniversary-eve-eric-cantor-insists-cuts-to-first-responders-or-no-disaster-aid/

September 12, 2011 at 12:43 p.m.
BobMKE said...

ML,

How old are you? Were you old enough to remember; “Bush lied, people died, Bush and Chaney were behind 911, I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it, The Iraq War is lost.” Etc. (Look them up) I always want my President, Governor, and Mayor to always err on the side of caution as Bush did. Bush had intelligence from numerous other Countries, including France and Russia and he then acted. If he didn’t, and Sadaam hit us with WMD, Bush’s head would be on a platter and rightly so.

September 12, 2011 at 1:17 p.m.
ArnoldZiffel said...

Give it up, man! You leftists are desperate. GW and Cheney will never be the boogie men to the public like they are in your heads. W got the go ahead to go in Iraq. Ya'll are beating a dead horse.

The hate ain't out there for them! LOL. Obama's now got troops on the ground in libya, he's got that ATF gun scandal in Mexico on his head and that new scandal with that solar energy company. If all that was on W's watch you'd all have strokes!

September 12, 2011 at 2:25 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BobMKE said: "Were you old enough to remember; “Bush lied, people died, Bush and Chaney were behind 911, I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it, The Iraq War is lost.” Etc. (Look them up) I always want my President, Governor, and Mayor to always err on the side of caution as Bush did."

Sorry, Bob, but lots of people from various political persuasions figured out rather quickly that Bush and Cheney were lying when they said Iraq had WMDs and connections to Al Queda. It wasn’t just "leftists" who came to this conclusion. If you take a little time to research the matter, you will discover that a great number of people came to this conclusion, including people like Republican Majority Leader Richard Armey of Texas who is mentioned in Barton Gellman’s book, “Angler: The Cheney Vice Presidency:

". . . In the run-up to the war in Iraq, the White House was worried about the stance of Republican Majority Leader Richard Armey of Texas, who had deep concerns about going to war with Saddam Hussein. According to the Post, Armey met with Cheney for a highly classified, one-on-on briefing . . .

During this meeting, the Post reports, Cheney turned Armey around on the war issue. Cheney did so by telling the House Majority Leader that he was giving him information that the Administration could not tell the public -- namely (according to Armey), that Iraq had the "'ability to miniaturize weapons of mass destruction, particularly nuclear,' which had been 'substantially refined since the first Gulf War,' and would soon result in 'packages that could be moved even by ground personnel.'

In addition, Cheney linked that threat to Saddam's alleged personal ties to al Qaeda, explaining that 'we now know they have the ability to develop these weapons in a very portable fashion, and they have a delivery system in their relationship with organizations such as al Qaeda.'"

. . . "Armey has asked: "Did Dick Cheney ... purposely tell me things he knew to be untrue?" His answer: "I seriously feel that may be the case...Had I known or believed then what I believe now, I would have publicly opposed [the war] resolution right to the bitter end, and I believe I might have stopped it from happening."

In short, it was this lie that sealed the nation's fate, and sent us to war in Iraq. By lying to such an influential figure in Congress, Cheney not only may have changed the course of history, but also corrupted the separation of powers with their inherent checks and balances.

. . . Cheney's great lie can be viewed not only as a great immorality and violation of the criminal code, but also and more fundamentally as the significant breach of his oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution."

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20080919.html

September 12, 2011 at 2:26 p.m.
ArnoldZiffel said...

Mountainlaurel I can just see you in a rubber room, wearing a straight jacket muttering about GWB and Cheney and banging your head against the walls! LOL

September 12, 2011 at 2:32 p.m.
dude_abides said...

timbo... So, it's one post per cartoon from you, and that one post will not be confrontational, right? Turning over a new tea leaf, are we? You know, there is precisely one (1) person who believes that baloney, and he's so eaten up with getting his voice heard that he posts from a moving vehicle with his iphone (apparently, an iphone that inserts asterisks into objectionable words by itself)! Hey, Mr. timborine man, in the jingle jangle morning I will be happy to remind you of your one (1) post self-restriction.

September 12, 2011 at 2:33 p.m.
dude_abides said...

ArnoldZ... go back and read her post, and then reread yours. Wish you could change it?

September 12, 2011 at 2:51 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Libertarians4Freedom said: “It is one thing to spend money after a hurricane, it's something else to spend it telling people to put on their seat belts, promoting exercising, building bike paths, building outhouses in the middle of nowhere, and 99.9% of the bullsh-t the government does.”

As 9/11 has shown us, the duties of our first responders are a lot more complex and dangerous than what you would have us believe, L4F. Yes, I think you, Republican House Majority Leader Eric Cantor and his Republican pals need to either do a little homework or speak to the chairwoman of the Homeland Security Appropriations Committee to broaden your awareness:

"As chairwoman of the Homeland Security Appropriations Subcommittee, I’m working to produce a bipartisan, fiscally responsible Homeland Security bill that accomplishes three objectives:


1) Ensures the nation develops and maintains a constant, capable and vigilant posture to protect against existing and evolving threats.



2) Effectively prepares for and responds to natural disasters.



3) Carries out the Department of Homeland Security’s many other responsibilities to secure our borders, enforce immigration laws, facilitate trade, protect our currency, work at all levels of government and with the private sector to secure cybersystems, combat drug trafficking and promote the safety of life and property at sea.



Recent events have highlighted the significant and evolving threats to the United States. The death of Osama bin Laden could inspire new attacks, including acts from homegrown terrorists.



A U.S. citizen was responsible for the Fort Hood shooting. A legal resident immigrant was behind the New York subway bombing attempt. A naturalized citizen precipitated the Times Square bombing attempt. In the past two years, according to Attorney General Eric Holder, 126 individuals have been indicted for terrorist-related activities, including 50 U.S. citizens. 

. .

. . . In addition to these threats, natural disasters continue to affect the homeland. Since Jan. 1, 2011, the president has issued disaster declarations in 39 states.

"

http://landrieu.senate.gov/mediacenter/inthenews/07-07-2011-1.cfm

September 12, 2011 at 2:54 p.m.
shifarobe said...

All hail Obaboon!!!! HAIL! HAIL! HAIL! HAIL! HAIL!!!!!

Leader of cockroaches, silverfishes, maggots and leaches!!

Our futures are now as dingy and hopeless as a filthy, neglected gas station restroom. ARE YOU HAPPHY NOW????????????????

Our new national symbol should be the dung beetle. Sh*t will be the only commodity we'll have!

September 12, 2011 at 3:02 p.m.
ArnoldZiffel said...

No, dude, my post is right on. I'd rather chew on broken glass until my gums become a bloody pulp than reread any of you leftist's posts! Belieeeeve me, once is enough.

September 12, 2011 at 3:09 p.m.
harrystatel said...
September 12, 2011 at 3:30 p.m.
ArnoldZiffel said...

Hey, Mountainlaurel! Here's a little something you can chant to yourself in your rubber room, Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld, Oh, my! Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld, Oh, my! LOL

September 12, 2011 at 3:36 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Libertarians4Freedom said: “I did not know the CIA and the FBI were "first responders."

You appear to be having a bit of difficulty connecting all of the “first responder” dots, Libertarians4Freedom. In her statement, chairwoman of the Homeland Security Appropriations Committee Mary Landrieu refers to a number of terrorists’ incidents that have occurred in the U.S. such as the New York bombing attempt. Who do you think will be the first responders to bombing threats and incidents like this? And who do you think was the first responders when Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot? For that matter, who were the first responders on 9/11, Libertarians4Freedom?

September 12, 2011 at 3:49 p.m.
dude_abides said...

ArnoldZiffel... honestly, you should stop. You taking on mountainlaurel is like a ninth grader arguing with his teacher. I bet you find flatulence just hilarious. Belieeeeve me, people are rolling their eyes.

September 12, 2011 at 5:51 p.m.

Great toon today Clay. The tea party has grown big and fat because of the constant bungling of both parties and they are definitely dividing the dem/repub powerblock that existed in D.C. I have great hope for the future that the tea party will become so huge that the back of the jacket rips and both the Republicrats and Demogressives fall by the wayside. Then we will have true unity in this country instead of the unity of the government against the people as it exists today. Great work!

September 12, 2011 at 6:01 p.m.
fairmon said...

Who was attending to those three items outlined as homeland security objectives?

1) Is the CIA, FBI, The defense departments not capable?

2) Has the national guard been so misused by the military, abused and underfunded they can't, along with the states, be prepared to handle most events. The term "natural disasters" suggest they are to be expected.

3) All formerly or remain key roles of other departments. FEMA is a political response by Bush that duplicates and establishes an entirely new and unnecessary hierarchy.

The line between federal assistance and federal control with the states and it's citizens abdicating their responsibility is how freedoms over time evolve to the state of affairs from which the founders fled. Perhaps we have grown too big and with too many not capable of dealing with and accepting responsibility for their own well being that our system is no longer valid.

Constant demands, screams, insistence of citizens plus local and state governments that the federal government assume responsibility and control of most issues indicates it may be time for a constitutional convention. All have prostituted themselves through various programs, grants and other federal pandering that independence and personal freedoms may no longer be an option.

There is no human or group of humans capable of effectively managing anything as large as the federal government within the constraints of the constitution.

September 12, 2011 at 6:11 p.m.
ArnoldZiffel said...

Dude, Dude, Dude, listen, you and Mountainlaurel are just Democrat party operatives, nothing more. Mountainlaurel's only purpose on here is to follow the party line. Just a foot soldier. Boring! Boring! You all sound the same. There's nothing new under the sun on this site.

September 12, 2011 at 9:01 p.m.

arnoldZiffel,

Interesting... Reading your comments I consider you as classical narrow-minded braindead footsoldier of tea-part idiocracy ...

September 13, 2011 at 2:58 a.m.
kousuke said...

very witty, Mr. Bennett!

September 13, 2011 at 6:07 a.m.
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