Side Effects

LOOK, IT'S MICHELLE OBAMA!!

Yeah, demanding a federal government that does not borrow 40 cents for every dollar that it spends and stops trying to get involved in every aspect of our lives is turning a political party into a monster.

Bennett, you truly are an idiot.

In reality, the tea party movement has shown the Democrat party for the mindless monster that it is.

Out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaketh, or the artist draweth. Looks like Mr Bennett has an overflow of hate.

Is there anything he's for? Anything he's cheerfully enthusiastic about? Any clear, good alternatives to what he regards as bad? It may well be easier to draw negatives than positives, so does he have a website where he writes (as the outstanding conservative cartoonist Henry Payne does)? Hey, Christ died for my sins; that's good news (and has inspired many artists.) And rose up alive on the 3rd day (harder to draw much, but hey, a guy who can draw Sarah Palin as ugly does not lack originality and imagination.) And is for liberty: the truth shall set you free.

I am not a Perry fan after LBJ and GWB that was enough of Texas politicians. Will the nest president make a decision for the states on the death penalty? Why is this an issue in a national policies debate? Is this the next states right to be taken from them or abdicated by state governments in exchange for a grant of the tax money their citizens paid?

Bennet got it wrong. Repugnants don't have lips.

But Demons have sharp teeth, mrB knows. yesss, he knows

AndrewLohr said...And is for liberty: the truth shall set you free.

Andrew - the liberty to which we have been set free is the liberty to, by love, serve one another. We are called to live to Christ and, living to Christ, live in love and service to our neighbor.

The Tea Party definition of liberty is love turned inward, a love that finds full expression in selfishness, greed and hatred. Each of us becomes a Mr. Hyde when we drink from the spirit of selfishness.

No man can serve two masters, Andrew. Will you live in the liberty for which Christ has set you free? Or will you serve the liberty which leaves you in bondage to selfishness? You can't have both.

its obvious that the monster is about to partake of the "BREW" when he does he will change back to Dr.jeckle!!

i'm sure this is the message clay is sending w/this cartoon!!! lol.

Wish I thought 'it' was that "obvious" Jesse...

I'm afraid what I saw was 'the aftermath' of "Dr. Lipton" partaking too much of his monstrous brew and becoming the hideous "Mr. Brisk." Because the former was too tempted to meet some of his more moderate contemporaries 'in the middle' in order to better work for the electorate in a bipartisan way.

Talk about your "Fractured Fairy Tales." As if any of that would actually take place.

Oh well.."bottoms up, doc"..It can't get much worse..or can it..Woody

WONDER WHY BENNETT PUT A GOP HAT ON OBAMA?

Yep, that tea they drank turned the Republicans into monsters. No longer do they even pretend to care for the sufferings of the ill, poor, young and dying. Nope, they cheer it on, laugh at them and hand the suffering a death panel.

Someone needs to make a horror movie about the evil Republicans. They don't even need to embellish or make up a story: the truth is worse than any fiction.

Clay is like a broken record with his cartoons. Let's take a look at some of the real issues Clay and the rest of the liberal media do not want us to know.

Fast and Furious Gunrunner Program http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/cloward-piven-the-ultimate-goal-of-gunwalker/

According to the Labor Department nearly $19 billion in state unemployment benefits were paid in error during the three years that ended in June. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/09/14/billions-in-unemployment-benefits-paid-in-error/

The Obama administration is facing new scrutiny amid charges that Gen. William Shelton, head of the Air Force Space Command, was pressured to change Congressional testimony to favor a large company with financial ties to Democrats. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report-obama-admin-pressured-general-to-support-democratic-donors-broadband-project/

Solyndra reciving $535 million of taxpayer money. According to an article from swampland.time.com the Obama administration restructured the loan this winter, so taxpayers probably won’t even be the first creditors to get paid after Solyndra files for bankruptcy next week. The first $75 million will go to two Solyndra investors who poured in extra cash when the company nearly went bust in January. And one of them is a venture associated with the billionaire George Kaiser, an Obama campaign bundler. http://swampland.time.com/2011/09/03/big-name-investors-to-recoup-losses-before-taxpayers-in-obamas-failed-green-tech-bet/#ixzz1YJ7qBIuT

Michelle Obama and the Muslim Brotherhood http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/09/michelle_obama_and_the_muslim_brotherhood.html

Clay is about as annoying as those people who once saw Obama as the second coming of Christ. At least they've mostly had the decency to remove their Hope and Change bumper stickers. Clay is such an obvious hack, he should be able to flip-flop and do a conservative cartoon every now and then. Maybe it is time for the Free Press to secede from the TFP union.

How many Democrats and Democratic Party controlled media figures would call for impeachment if the Solyndra scandal and the Fast and Furious gunrunner program happened on a Republican presidents watch?

If Obama were not the first black president and the darling of the media, which is by their own admission predominently Democrat, he would be in deep trouble for many things he's done, and not done.

I also find Obama's statement in front of a friendly crowd last week to be very bizarre. I think he said, "If you love me you'll help me pass the jobs bill" "If you love me"? If that's not a window into his mind, then nothing is. Very demogogue-like and desperate.

This guy is absolutely the WORST political cartoonist working for any newspaper in this country. I'm surprised he doesn't just draw a picture of the whole country on fire, with him sitting in the middle of it enjoying the end. The reason the "radical" tea party conservatives have arisen is because of the militant liberal element in this country that has destroyed everything that once allowed us to have a middle road. It may come as a surprise, but some people are not gay/lesbian and don't want to have anything to do with a culture that promotes those lifestyles. Some people work hard, save, invest, take care of their families, buy health insurance, don't indulge in drugs/alcohol/tobacco abuse, love their spouses and children, are true to them,and don't settle disputes by SHOOTING EACH OTHER. All those who want to tear down what's left of our family-centered society just to see it fall should go ahead and put themselves out of their misery, and that includes cartoonists who only have a job because they intentionally provoke comments like this one from the people who actually DO support our economy by studying hard, working hard and being responsible. We don't need or want a Tea Party either, but YOU have created the movement by pushing too hard, too long, in the wrong direction.

Wow let me guess how this comment string will play. Attack Clay, attack Obama, attack Dems, attack Tea Party, attack each other. Name calling, rants and tantrums. No solutions and no personal responsibility. It's like a monkey humping a football. Nothing changes. It's a bad movie that I can't turn off because I think it might get better.

The question is, is the flask half full of the sweat off his teabag, or half empty.

timbagtu... stop posting things on my wall, it's kind of icky in a stalkeresque way. I'm afraid you might be bagcurious.

And this cartoon is not a scare tactic?

President Obama has become one scary dude to me! A man who is very desperate to find some way to get what he wants no matter what. A spoiled child who cannot take no for an answer. This jobs bill he's peddling on college campuses is not much more than a whole bunch of tax hikes. He's like Jekyl and Hyde. Many people, including myself, were duped by his great acting job during the campaign. When he came into office he changed into something else.

Lumpy is correct. "If you love me"? is very revealing to me, and scary!! Very, very manipulative!

Despite the carping from the troglodyte chorus above, this cartoon got it just right. As sandyonsignal rightfully points out, the tea party's influence on the Republicans has not only hardened their resolve, but it's hardened their hearts as well.

You need only look back to the Republican debates from the past two weeks to see how monstrous the party has become. The mere mention of the 234 executions carried out under Rick Perry evoked thunderous applause and cheering. Honest people can certainly disagree on the issue of the death penalty, but the crowd in the Reagan Library that night seemed to have all the class of the folks who have tailgate parties outside the prison when a convict is scheduled to die.

And just when you think you've seen the worse the GOP has to offer, it sinks to a new low. During a discussion about government sponsored health care at the very next debate, Ron Paul is asked if someone without insurance should just be allowed to die. Again, the audience cheered and one pathetic ghoul even cried out, 'Yeah!'

Even Rick Perry was (as he put it) "taken aback" by the audience reaction. Man, when RICK PERRY thinks your behavior is out of line, you need to do some serious soul searching. It's sad to see a once proud political party turn into little more than a lynch mob.

I fully believe that many Republican politicians are better than this. Unfortunately, few have the courage to stand up to the radicals within their party. They continue to pander to the tea party hard liners, no matter how shameful or embarrassing they might act. The Republican race has become a race to the bottom, and the primary has become no more than a contest to see who can belch the loudest.

This cartoon speaks the truth about what the Republican Party has become since ingesting the tea party elixir. So, complain if you will, but it really just comes off as someone blaming the mirror for the ugliness of the image it reflects.

Lumpy wrote: "I also find Obama's statement in front of a friendly crowd last week to be very bizarre. I think he said, "If you love me you'll help me pass the jobs bill" "If you love me"? If that's not a window into his mind, then nothing is. Very demogogue-like and desperate."

That line was spoken just after "I love you President Obama!!" was shouted by a member of the crowd. The sentence in question was preceded with "I love you too," by the President. Then he uttered the sentence that has you bothered.

Context. Anything taken out of context can be manipulated for the purpose of demeaning practically anyone. This is yet just another in a long line of sentences that have been taken out of context.

Good job Bennett!!! Another stupid, insulting, piece of trash. You and these other liberal posters are doing more to consolidate the right than anyone. You have absolutely convince me that the democrats and you liberals are much more dangerous than the Republicans. Bennett is like a recruiter for the Republican party. He is going to force people like me to vote Republican instead of some obscure political party running for president. Just keep up the good work.

dude_abides.... I am breaking my new rule this once to show people what kind of private post you thing is "icky." Strange choice of words for a grown , uh...whatever you are. Here are the two posts:

Post #1

Dude - Why don't you ever, ever address the subject of a post and not try to show how smart you are.

Your two groupies above are feeding your ego. Just once could you address the subject without your sarcastic, rude behavior.

I said I wouldn't comment more than once and not be personal on the main post. I didn't say I wouldn't give you a hard time privately.

If you are so damn smart, why don't you enlighten us on some of your solutions. I don't think you have any. You just want to prove how glib and clever you are. Half the time you don't even read the post your commenting on. You just take something out of context and and right something that is irrelevant.

Post#2

You did it again.. you mentioned nothing about the subject in your post. That is what this page is for not trying to build you ego with irrelevant drivel. You said: "Has anybody else been stalked privately by timbo? While it illustrates his rule changing, hypocritical way "debating", it is a bit discomfiting to suddenly find yourself in an intimate setting, one on one, so close (seemingly) that you can smell his Komodo Dragon breath....." You even you edited my comments. Extremely dishonest. Do you just not have an opinion on anything but my breath?"

Now, since I called you out on your rude and ego gratifying posts, you shows what a lying drama queen you really are by lying about my "stalking". I guess he doesn't want the truth on his personal page because it would ruin his "image." Your not funny and your lack of self-esteem is louder than your posts. So go ahead with another rude post that has nothing to do with the subject. I know you won't disappoint. See you one your personal page.

Prairiedog wrote: "It may come as a surprise, but some people are not gay/lesbian and don't want to have anything to do with a culture that promotes those lifestyles."

And what "culture" are you referring to? Are you calling all Liberals gay/lesbian? This may come as a surprise, but not all Liberals are gay/lesbian. A great many of us are very straight, and believe it or not, most all have morals and ethics as well.

But here's the difference between Liberals and Conservatives; Most Liberals believe in living and let living. We don't go around sticking our noses up in the air, thinking we have a lock on life as it should be lived, and spend our days sticking those same noses into the business of those who are different from ourselves.

"Some people work hard, save, invest, take care of their families, buy health insurance, don't indulge in drugs/alcohol/tobacco abuse, love their spouses and children, are true to them,and don't settle disputes by SHOOTING EACH OTHER."

Well guess what, hot shot? Just about all the Liberals I know abstain from drugs/alcohol/tobacco abuse, love their spouses and children, are true to them, and no one I know has ever settled a dispute by shooting someone else. Most of us have jobs too.

Are you suggesting that Conservatives do not smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol or use illegal drugs, cheat on their spouses, or have never taken up a gun to settle some dispute? Now that's funny.

"All those who want to tear down what's left of our family-centered society just to see it fall should go ahead and put themselves out of their misery, and that includes cartoonists who only have a job because they intentionally provoke comments like this one from the people who actually DO support our economy by studying hard, working hard and being responsible."

There ya' go again, suggesting that Liberals do not have nuclear families. You've got all kinds of misconceptions floating around your head when it comes to Liberals, don't you?

"We don't need or want a Tea Party either, but YOU have created the movement by pushing too hard, too long, in the wrong direction."

Oh, so it's the fault of Liberals, and their supposed lifestyles that are so contrary to your own, that the Tea Party movement was created? How refreshing.

The fighting for absolute power that is going on currently, is completely within the Republican Party. It's a virtual slugfest that has most Liberals, like myself, laughing out loud at the moment.

Just this past week, Speaker of the House John Boehner has become a target of the Tea Party. It was announced that they are going to unseat him.

Ultra Conservatives, no matter what they call themselves at any given moment in time, will never be in charge of this nation.

Good luck with their trying to dominate the Republican Party. They've about worn out their welcome.

Is it that the Tea Party makes the GOP look like a monster or does the Tea Party just expose the monster that was always there??

I will give you a free idea Clay, Jesus knows you need some ideas. Just put "Obama" on the hat of that vile creature, label the teabag "Our beloved America" and label the liquid "Urine". Or perhaps the hat should read "Progressives" or "Obamists" and the bag should be a cross.

I hope a moderator in a future debate asks the God King Obama if he sleeps at night knowing that he and his fellow Progressives/Liberals/Dems have the blood of millions of innocent dead babies on their hands. PLDs like to throw out the "what would Jesus" do mantra when it fits their dogma. That social justice thing that has replaced christianity in many local high church churches in the city. So does Jesus endorse Obama and the baby killing industry in this country ? The PLDs need to answer that question with clarity. Yes or No.

I find it so amusing that all these conservatives find Clay Bennett to be so one-sided, predictable and, in the words of one of his detractors, a 'broken record'.

Would any of these people make the same claims about Rush Limbaugh? No. Because they would see his one-sidedness as the righteous side, of course. They would describe Limbaugh, not as predictable, but rather as philosophical consistent. And they would say (while genuflecting) that if Rush seems like a 'broken record', it's because Barack Obama broke it to begin with.

I would ask any of our wingnut cohorts here, what exactly is the difference between Rush Limabaugh and Clay Bennett (besides the latter having immense talent and an IQ over 100)? Why is it perfectly all right for Limbaugh to come on the radio day after day promoting a his political ideology and villainizing all those with whom he disagrees, but it is totally unacceptable for Clay to do the same from his perspective?

The only difference between the two, is that opposing voices are given little airtime to refute Limbaugh on his own show, while the Times Free Press gives you right-wing bozos all the bandwidth you want to impugn Bennett's point of view.

Ollie dear, if you have ever listened to Rush you would know he works from facts. He talks about reality. Mr. Bennett portrays the GOP as an animal of some sort. They are not animals, but human beings. So Mr. Bennett starts from some sort of twisted sense of reality and flows into a fantasyland of delusional thoughts.

And anyone who garners the approval of the crack pot Pulitzer family and the United Nations must have his sanity and honesty questioned.

Yes.. the grand old pedophiles are human beings. The Grand Old Party died long before country music changed to some bull crap noise, to be replaced by these stagnant greedy uncaring human beings.

Where do you get your ideas? Not only are you a gifted artist, but your ideas are gifted as well.

And SPOT ON as usual.

Thanks for all you do.

Click here for More---- > !

Rush works from FACTS??

Surely, surely ,surely your joking, right??

Dude -- Anyone in the world can post anything they wish on your Facebook Wall. That Wall is not your personal property.

Besides, the poster's words are protected speech. Sounds like you might have had an Oopsie and gave something away...

Threatening someone with "stalking" is typical Progressive-speak for "I hate you because you disagree with me."

And based on comments, you are having an impact. Please continue your important work of exposing reality for all to see.

Projection comments are wonderful. So psychological.

Dearest eeeekkkkk - Most Liberals are not pedophiles. But most pedophiles are Liberal. If not, why would Liberals now be proposing that pedophiles be treated with more respect, as just as any other mental defect ? Frightening concept.

hambone tell us a lie that Rush has spoken ? Then watch Obama and his regime toadies open their mouths. Obama's biggest lie was on inauguration day when he swore to defend the constitution. And it has been down hill since then.

Here you go:

http//www.politifact.com/personalities/rush-limbaugh/statements/

Here's another: an analysis of a transcript from a show about the film "Expelled".

http://www.john-wright.net/2008/04/16/limbaugh-on-evolution/

JonRoss, Too many to list here. Just do search "Rusn limbaugh lies" and read all you want.

Rush flys to the Dominican Republic with a pocket full of Viagra, for what? Boys or girls?

Spot on, Clay Bennett. Although I think some of the GOP’s problems predate the tea party, I agree the GOP has become a strange case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Indeed, as Joe Conason pointed out in, “Preserving Life – Unless Its Uninsured,” the Republicans “must be the only Christians in the world who would cheer wildly at the idea of someone dying from lack of health insurance.”

“When CNN anchor Wolf Blitzer asked whether a young man lacking private health insurance should simply be allowed to die if he suddenly suffered an accident or illness, some audience members screamed “Yes!” Many of the rest cheered, while the would-be presidents stood by woodenly, without the dignity of a demurral.

It was a revealing moment that may foretell a new and meaner Republican platform: If you lose your job and your health care, don’t expect any help, except perhaps from the church. And if your innocent kids get sick, too bad for them. Forget about Medicare, Medicaid and any American who can’t afford private insurance. This is a free country—so don’t get sick.

Yet during the same debate, Rick Perry, the GOP’s leading contender, justified his program to inoculate young schoolgirls against cervical cancer by explaining that he was putting life first, as always—and then boasted about the millions of state dollars he has spent seeking a cure for cancer. While all the other candidates attacked the Texas governor for his Gardasil vaccination program, what bothered them more than the state funding was the alleged lack of parental consent. . .

Lack of insurance—and the lack of adequate insurance—present a daily concern for increasing numbers of Americans. According to the Census Bureau, the exact number has reached 49.9 million, the highest number since the advent of Medicare and Medicaid and the highest percentage of uninsured Americans since the recession of 1976.

The Republicans up on that debate stage and the tea party claque don’t think this is their problem. They don’t care. They must be the only Christians in the world who would cheer wildly at the idea of someone dying from lack of health insurance. And they will nevertheless vote for the Texan who spent millions of state dollars vaccinating those little girls. Is it the fury and the bile that kills brain cells?”

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/preserving_life_unless_its_uninsured_20110916/

This latest installment in Clay’s Tea Party Series highlights to me how panicked the left has become that the Tea Party will do to them next year what they did to them last year: toss them out on their ears. The left’s lapdogs in the GOP aren’t nearly as threatening to die-hard Democrats as the Tea Party is. I’m not crazy about all of their spokesmen (nor of their favorite candidates), but if they manage to rally the middle against the radical left again next year, God bless them.

Republicans win elections when they run and govern as conservatives. Democrats win elections when recessions occur during Republican administrations. They only get re-elected when the mid-term congressional election reminds them that the country was only temporarily inebriated because of the recession.

On a non-partisan note, Americans seem to like to be wined, dined, and lied to. Politicians run to the right or to the left of their respective parties in the primaries, then to the middle in the general election, then whichever way the wind blows for four years as they seemingly spend their every waking hour trying to get re-elected. Of course, the fault doesn’t lie entirely with pandering career politicians. We who drink their potion are also what are wrong with the world.

PolitiFact is humerous but it is an Obamist style cesspool. A lie is when Barack Hussien Obama says "i am not an ideologue" or "i never heard my pastor of 20 years preach weekly racist sermons" or "i am not a socialist".

And no one dies because they don't have medical insurance. That is the biggest lie flung by the Obama and the PLD.

Politifact catches Obama's lies too. http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/

Although he doesn't do as badly as some: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/michele-bachmann/ http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rick-perry/ http://www.politifact.com/personalities/glenn-beck/

JonRoss wrote: "And no one dies because they don't have medical insurance. That is the biggest lie flung by the Obama and the PLD."

Stick your head in the sand if you must, but the fact is that about 45,000 Americans die each and every year due to a lack of having health insurance.

Uninsured people are far more likely to skip screenings and other preventive care, so their medical problems are often diagnosed later, when they are more advanced and tougher to treat. The uninsured are also more likely to skimp on necessary medical care, such as prescription drugs to keep their blood pressure, diabetes, or other maladies in check.

Tennessee currently rates twelfth in the United States in terms of premature deaths related to not having health insurance coverage. 7,500 people have died throughout the state in the past year.

JohnRoss wrote: "Most Liberals are not pedophiles. But most pedophiles are Liberal. If not, why would Liberals now be proposing that pedophiles be treated with more respect, as just as any other mental defect ? Frightening concept."

Has anyone studied the political leanings of people convicted of pedophilia? I don't think such a study exists. How do you know the political leanings of the psychiatrists, psychologists and social workers involved, who have attempted to reclassify those convicted of pedophilia?

Do you see the problem here? I sure do. If someone, anyone at all, offers something that someone who considers themselves to be Conservative, disagrees with, then the person with whom they disagree with is automatically determined to be a Liberal.

All criminals are Liberals, by default. We know this because two people have offered this statement in this thread today. All abnormal behaviors are the fault of and committed by Liberals ONLY, right?

You Sir are a Dittohead. I'll bet that your ears are glued to a radio from noon until 3 pm, five days a week. I used to do the same thing too, until around the year 2006. Then I began fact-checking right-wing talk show hosts.

I'll pray that you wake up one day too.

WhatsWrongWithTheWorld said: “This latest installment in Clay’s Tea Party Series highlights to me how panicked the left has become that the Tea Party will do to them next year what they did to them last year: toss them out on their ears.”

Guess you didn’t see the Republican debates, WWWTW. Indeed, it was a shocking sight to behold. Don’t think I’ve ever seen a debate where an audience cheered at the thought of the death of a young man lacking private health insurance. It still gives me chills to think about it. Eugene Robinson is right about the Republican perspective. It lacks a moral dimension:

“We heard plenty of contradictions, distortions and untruths at the Republican candidates’ tea party debate, but we heard shockingly little compassion—and almost no acknowledgment that political and economic policy choices have a moral dimension. . .

Rick Perry, Mitt Romney, Bachmann, Paul and the others onstage in Tampa all had the same prescription for the economy: Cut spending, cut taxes and let the wealth that results trickle down to the less fortunate.

They betrayed no empathy for, or even curiosity about, the Americans who depend on the spending that would be cut. They had no kind words—in fact, no words at all—for teachers, firefighters and police officers who will lose their jobs unless cash-strapped state and local government receive federal aid. Public servants, the GOP candidates imply, don’t hold “real” jobs. I wonder: Do Republicans even consider them “real” people?

Government is more than a machine for collecting and spending money, more than an instrument of war, a book of laws or a shield to guarantee and protect individual rights. Government is also an expression of our collective values and aspirations. There’s a reason the Constitution begins “We the people ... ” rather than “We the unconnected individuals who couldn’t care less about one another ... “

I believe the Republican candidates’ pinched, crabby view of government’s nature and role is immoral. I believe the fact that poverty has risen sharply over the past decade—as shown by new census data—while the richest Americans have seen their incomes soar is unacceptable. I believe that writing off whole classes of citizens—the long-term unemployed whose skills are becoming out of date, thousands of former offenders who have paid their debt to society, millions of low-income youth ill-served by inadequate schools—is unconscionable.”

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/where_are_the_compassionate_conservatives_20110916/

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HARD to save Obaboon's skin. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DETERMINED to prove that Obaboon is worth keepin' around another 4 YEARS!!!!! You slugs. SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKERS! We're worth no more than the scum in between Meeeechele's toes to President Obaboon. But you keep believin' he's somethin' special. LOVE HIM, LOVE HIM AND HELP HIM PASS THE BILL! HE NEEDS TO KNOW HE'S LOVED!! NOW LET'S ALL BE GOOD AND EAT OUR OATMEAL AND APPLE SLICES AT MCDONALD'S! DON'T SAY A DAMN THING ABOUT OBABOON AND HIS MRS. EATIN' THEIR FRIES, AND SHAKES AND HAMBURGERS AND LOBSTER LASGANA!

I'm sure glad talk show host don't have anything to do with people getting elected. Otherwise people might start listening to Oprah. Then think of the mess we would be in. =)

Obama has been a radical all of his life. He has no idea how Capitalism works. He has surrounded himself with academics who feel, for what ever reason, that their idea of leveling the playing field (Obama's words) will work for the first time in history. Only 8% of his staff have ever had a position in the private sector. The free market system works. Let it work. Canada taxes their corporations 12%, England 16%, China 25%, and the United States taxes at 45%. Then they get hit again on capitol gain taxes. 50% of Americans do not pay income taxes and the the other 50% pay 97% of the taxes. What should their fair share be? 60%/80%? What? Yes, yes, yes, close the loop holes. The problem is spending. We have to encourage investment and job creation. The bottom line here is people are sitting on their capitol until after the 2012 election. One of the main reasons their sitting is because of Obama Care. They won't hire if they know they can't afford that worker. Obama can't run on his record so he is using the old Class Warfare tactic. His own party is starting to turn on him including James Carvele. Remember that all of the major city have been using the liberal idea for decades and it doesn't work. The Great Society has not worked the way they thought it would. (11 trillion dollars to date) Question time. Name me a large US city that has worked with the liberal agenda? When you look at Obama what comes to mind? Name me some success stories from the Obama administration? Would Hillary have done a better job? Hillary should run just like Ted (hic) Kennedy did against Carter.

Isn't it getting close to some of these children's bedtime??

mntl said.... When CNN anchor Wolf Blitzer asked whether a young man lacking private health insurance should simply be allowed to die if he suddenly suffered an accident or illness.

You changed the question, to he was lacking insurance. He lacked it because he made the decision not to pay for it although he could afford to. The question was:

A 30 yo man in good health that could well afford health care chose not to and something terrible happens what should be done?

What do you think should be done by the federal government in such a case? Today the emergency room would treat him and he would be expected to pay for it or other people with coverage or tax payers in that community would pay for it. Why is health care a federal issue instead of a state issue? The federal government can't afford to provide health care for welfare situations any more than state governments. The difference is the federal government can keep moving the country toward insolvency due to a rapidly growing debt.

If the republicans weren't stupid they would give Obumblebama everything he wants which will fail miserably in time. The country would not be better off but republicans would have control and the country still would not be better off.

We are apporaching 20 years with a liberal POTUS (GWB was liberal) and everyone can see how a federal enabler of dependency has worked out. Every candidate for as long as I can remember, including Obama, has promised to review spending line by line and to reduce all wasteful spending and eliminate fraud. Obama promised to cut the deficit in half in his first term. Not one of them has kept their promise. Neither will the next POTUS or congress.

BobMKE wrote: "Obama has been a radical all of his life. He has no idea how Capitalism works. He has surrounded himself with academics who feel, for what ever reason, that their idea of leveling the playing field (Obama's words) will work for the first time in history."

It worked in this nation for decades, until Ronald Reagan was elected and he began coddling the rich in this nation.

"Only 8% of his staff have ever had a position in the private sector."

Sorry, but that is completely untrue. If you take the most restrictive definition, those employed by businesses other than private law and consulting firms, Obama can count six members of his 22-member Cabinet with private-sector experience, or 27 percent. If you take what most people consider the more common-sense definition, which includes those who have worked for private law or consulting firms, then Obama can count 15 out of 22 with private-sector experience, or 68 percent.

"The free market system works. Let it work. Canada taxes their corporations 12%, England 16%, China 25%, and the United States taxes at 45%."

The most prevailing rate of taxation for is nowhere near 45%. The range of taxation ranges from 15% on corporation that nets $50,000 to 35% for corporations that net $18,333,333 or more. Those rates have remained solid since 2005.

"Then they get hit again on capitol gain taxes. 50% of Americans do not pay income taxes and the the other 50% pay 97% of the taxes."

Given that the average incomes for those in the middle and lower income classes have fallen 10%-15% since 2007, that more than explains it, don't you think?

"What should their fair share be? 60%/80%? What? Yes, yes, yes, close the loop holes. The problem is spending. We have to encourage investment and job creation."

Yes, spending is a problem. A lack of revenue is also a problem. The idea that tax rates for those who can afford to pay taxes should remain low is insanity.

"The bottom line here is people are sitting on their capitol until after the 2012 election."

If that's true, then they are in the same class of people who refuse to work overtime because more taxes are taken out of their checks. They aren't considering the fact that they will net more spendable income. It's stupidity at its finest.

"One of the main reasons their sitting is because of Obama Care. They won't hire if they know they can't afford that worker. Obama can't run on his record so he is using the old Class Warfare tactic."

Call it whatever you wish, but the fact remains that the most prosperous years for most Americans existed when the top income earners were taxed at a rate of 50% or higher. And that lasted nearly forty years.

"His own party is starting to turn on him including James Carvele."

James Carville was and still is a Hillary Clinton fan. There is little surprise, at least to me, that he is critical of Barack Obama. His points of view change from week to week.

(Continued)

BobMKE wrote: "Question time. Name me a large US city that has worked with the liberal agenda?"

What exactly do you consider the "Liberal agenda" to be? Until you define that, your question can not be answered.

"When you look at Obama what comes to mind? Name me some success stories from the Obama administration?"

The Credit Card Bill of Rights. An Expansion of loan programs for small businesses. Extension of the Bush tax cuts for lower incomes. Closed the "doughnut hole" in Medicare prescription drug plan. Required insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions. In non-competitive markets, forces insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care. Eliminated the higher subsidies to Medicare Advantage plans. Increased the Veterans Administration budget to recruit and retain more mental health professionals. Fully fund the Veterans Administration. Fully funded the Violence Against Women Act. Directed military leaders to end war in Iraq. Created a military families advisory board. Increased funding for local emergency planning. Sought verifiable reductions in nuclear stockpiles. Initiated a grant and training program for law enforcement to deter cyber crime. Granted Americans unrestricted rights to visit family and send money to Cuba. Increased funding for national parks and forests. Increased funding for the Land and Water Conservation Fund. Expanded Pell grants for low-income students. Repealed the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" military policy. Established 'Promise Neighborhoods' for areas of concentrated poverty. Worked to overturn Ledbetter vs. Goodyear. Banned lobbyist gifts to executive employees. Created new criminal penalties for mortgage fraud. Provided grants to encourage energy-efficient building codes.

"Would Hillary have done a better job? Hillary should run just like Ted (hic) Kennedy did against Carter."

Hillary has too much class and respect for the President to ever do that. Ted Kennedy is dead. There is no need to demean him.

Tea Party Rhetoric

http://imgur.com/DilhT

timbo, nobody cares! Nobody wants to read about the fact that you're frustrated at not being able to communicate with me privately. I simply asked you to keep it public, tinytimbo! Find someone else to tiptoe through the teabags with.

rolando, get bent. When someone stalks you to your profile and leaves a comment, you get mail telling you they've "posted on your wall." So, you do that Facebook crap, huh? You friend people and tell everybody about your day, etc.?

Well, it appears that the President is taking a stand against Republicans, and they are already howling to high Heaven.

He is proposing $1.5 trillion in taxes being assessed the wealthiest of Americans and that along with other spending cuts, is to be applied towards reducing the deficit by $2 trillion.

Those within the Democrat party have been calling for the President to take a stand against the Republicans in the House and he has done it.

Another $1 trillion is being proposed in deficit reduction by bringing home troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. This amount is not guaranteed at this time. It is estimated.

Further, the President has vowed to veto any legislation passed, that cuts spending on Medicare without being paired with tax increases for wealthy Americans. No changes to Social Security or any increase in the eligibility age for Medicare will be acceptable to the President either.

90 percent of the $248 billion in 10-year Medicare cuts would be squeezed from service providers. The plan does shift some additional costs to beneficiaries, but those changes would not start until 2017.

Millionaires currently face a 35 percent tax bracket, while middle income filers fall in the 15 or 25 percent bracket. But investment income is taxed at 15 percent and Warren Buffett, God love the man for his honesty, has complained that he and other wealthy people have been "coddled long enough" and shouldn't be paying a smaller share of their income in federal taxes than middle-class taxpayers.

So all you income earners of a million dollars or more who frequent this forum, it appears that you now have something to complain about, not that I think that any of you come close to making anywhere near that amount.

This puts you all in a predicament. You've been wailing and moaning about the deficit for five years. Now here's the President doing something about it, by dedicating $2 - $3 trillion towards reducing it.

I wonder what your excuses will be in not supporting the plan.

Andrew Breitbart, who was looking like he very much needed a bath, spoke before a conservative audience recently, and recanted some very paranoid thoughts about Liberals.

It seems that he is of the opinion that a civil war in this nation would be a good thing and he stands ready to kill some Liberals for fun. He also thinks he has the backing of the United States military as well. Yeah...he actually states that.

Harp3339 said: “You changed the question, to he was lacking insurance. He lacked it because he made the decision not to pay for it although he could afford to.”

Please, Harp3339. I don’t think Conason’s paraphrasing the “question” changed the bottom line. Are you suggesting the audience and/or any of the Republican presidential candidates on stage that evening would have responded differently if the hypothetical uninsured patient had been either poor or middleclass? I certainly didn’t hear anything from the candidates suggesting the response would have been different. Did you? If so, please explain.

Harp3339 said: “What do you think should be done by the federal government in such a case?”

Actually, I think the U.S. should establish a universal healthcare system that eliminates the profit motive. We continue to be the only industrialized nation in the world that continues to put profits of the healthcare industry before the needs of people and it’s costing us dearly.

I have no idea what the hell is wrong with you GOPers. This cartoon is spot on.

Breitbart's a delusional liar and cokehead. The cartoon is spot on for Breitbart. He showed up at Netroots in Minneapolis with media in tow. When he came down the escalator, he was surrounded by citizen journalists with their smart phone cameras. The crowd asked him about his obsession with gay men, Blue Boy magazine, and has he ever done cocaine. He was repeatedly asked about cocaine to which he refused to answer.

He was asked about an incident in Minneapolis the night before, where Muslim women with head scarves were harassed by his two accomplices. The police had to intervene and might have arrested one of his two friends with him. Breitbart and his two friends yelled at them about not being American and harassed them. It reminded me of the Brownshirts and their Jew baiting tactics. It was disgusting. These kinds of hate-crime tactics need more media attention. Instead there was silence from the main stream media.

Breitbart tried to get into Netroots Nation but was told he needed a $350 ticket to which he refused to buy. The group that surrounded him would not ease up on the shouts about being gay, on drugs and a racist. Breitbart fled through the service doors for the help. He's a scumbag. How come the AJC printed his smear job on Shirley Sherrod but won't print Doonesbury's satire cartoons is beyond me.

Thank goodness our Times Free Press didn't do this type of censorship. Kudos, TFP.

Don't drink it! It's a potion concocted in an Obamacare lab and given to you by the snake oil salesdude Barack!

Harp3339 said: “What do you think should be done by the federal government in such a case?”

mntl responded.... Actually, I think the U.S. should establish a universal health care system that eliminates the profit motive. We continue to be the only industrialized nation in the world that continues to put profits of the health care industry before the needs of people and it’s costing us dearly.

Like a politician you jump to your talking point but don't answer the question...what should the federal government do if a healthy 30 yo that can afford health care makes the decision not to carry insurance.

Actually the governments intervention and interference in the health care industry beyond quality of care regulation which results in no competition is a major cause of the high cost. Why should the U.S. be a "monkey see monkey do" country like those in Europe with high taxes and lack of motivation? Look at Greece if you want to see America in the future if the current political agendas of both parties continues.

Spot on Clay. The tea party does seem like a monster to the GOP shills. Though, it is a much bigger monster to regressives like you. You should be very afraid. The majority is waking up. They are saying enough is enough.

Truth will win out! Thanks Clay for such a delightful truthful cartoon. I love it! Keep up the good work!

FPSE wrote: " The majority is waking up. They are saying enough is enough."

Not according to the independent telephone polls that I have been directly involved with recently. The far right is nowhere near in the majority of this nation and while many people have been fascinated with the some of the ideas expressed by the Tea Party movement, that support is waning fast.

The ideas offered in monkeying around with Medicare and Social Security are turning people off faster than defecation slides out of a duck's posterior.

The majority of people in this nation are also for increased taxes on the wealthiest Americans as well. By a two-thirds margin too.

The most recent Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely U.S. Voters shows Obama picking up 46% of the vote, while Perry earns support from 39%. Mitt Romney is the ONLY Republican candidate, according to the latest poll, who polled higher than Obama, by three percentage points.

If Obama's job approval numbers rise to 50% or above between now and November 2012, there is not a Republican on the planet who can unseat him.

Regarding the Tea Party, a question was asked of registered voters; "Do you consider yourself to be a supporter of the Tea Party movement or an opponent of the Tea Party movement?"

26 percent of the voters responded that they were supporters of the Tea Party movement, and 31 percent indicated that they were opponents of the Tea Party movement.

Support and interest in the Tea Party movement peaked just after the 2010 mid-term elections and it has been steadily declining ever since.

alprova said... “Andrew Breitbart, spoke before a conservative audience recently.”

Thank you for that video alprova. The part you apparently fail to hear is that the entire dialogue is prefaced as what momentarily occurs to him when he feels he is being pushed too hard by the left. He is not advocating, just sharing what he sees as the stark reality. He does not seem to want these things to happen, but admits they occur to him in unclear moments, clarity being lost to emotion.

The difference between him and Leftist leaders is that the left advocates for confrontation and provocation. You try to project this behavior on to the Right to somehow make it the Right's fault in the event that your provocations result in real violence. You know that the real culpability would lie with Leftist organizations.

Harp3339 said: “Actually the governments intervention and interference in the health care industry. . . is a major cause of the high cost.”

Do you always just make things up out of thin air, Harp3339? Shame on you.

Harp3339 said: “Like a politician you jump to your talking point but don't answer the question...what should the federal government do if a healthy 30 yo that can afford health care makes the decision not to carry insurance.”

What a mean spirited thing to say, Harp3339. As to your accusation, I believe I’ve answered the question, and suggest that it is you who is trying to avoid answering the question that I asked you in my earlier post: “Are you suggesting the audience and/or any of the presidential candidates would have responded differently if the hypothetical uninsured patient had been either poor or middleclass? I certainly didn’t hear anything from the candidates suggesting the response would have been different. Did you?”

Harp3339 said: “Why should the U.S. be a "monkey see monkey do" country like those in Europe with high taxes and lack of motivation? “

Surely, you’re not claiming that countries like Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Austria, Ireland, Sweden, Belgium, and the Netherlands lack motivation? If so, I disagree.

mountainlaurel,

The US did not become the world’s most powerful economy and the only superpower because we mimicked Europe. We are losing that position now BECAUSE we are mimicking Europe. Why can't the Left see that? I sometimes think you do but you value the social guarantees so much that you push those realities into your subconscious so you don't have to deal with them.

Most of what is wrong with the US today is that the social guarantees have been pushed too far and have become counterproductive. I don’t know anyone that wants to eliminate them but there are plenty that want to get them under control and in many cases return responsibility to the states.

mountainlaurel wrote: "Surely, you’re not claiming that countries like Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Austria, Ireland, Sweden, Belgium, and the Netherlands lack motivation? If so, I disagree."

You left out the most important country. France. France provides health care to all within its borders and leads the world in all health care statistics across the board.

France's economy is not in turmoil as a result of socialized health care either. It experienced only four quarters of contraction, and has been growing at the fastest rate compared to all the European countries.

It's sickening to realize that the United States has become a third world nation in terms of taking care of its citizens. We used to lead the world and to set an example for the rest of the world. Far too many are now willing to allow the rest of the world just pass us by like a Ferrari does a Pinto.

alprova said... "It's sickening to realize that the United States has become a * third world nation in terms of taking care of its citizens"*

Typical Leftist dog squeeze.

I'd love to have somene on here give me some good reasons why it's important that Obama wins a second term. Alprova, you seem to be some kind of Democrat Party operative. Give me a few reasons why I should vote for Obama in 2012.

It's not good enough to argue that we need to vote for him because the Republicans are a bunch of scary people, according to many on here and Clay Bennett, but rather I want reasons to vote FOR him, not against his eventual opponent. Explain why he deserves a second term.

I can't think of one reason, and it's not because I blame him for all of our problems, but because he's revealed himself to me to be just a demagogue and an idealogue. He's not capable of solving any problems. He talks a good game, but that's it. I think he's out of touch and lacks empathy.

I'll tell you, I don't know one person that voted for Obama in '08 who will vote for him again. That's quite a few people.

alprova said... "It's sickening to realize that the United States has become a * third world nation in terms of taking care of its citizens"

Typical Leftist dog squeeze.*

Actually, alprova is correct. The US ranks with many third world countries on several indicators, including health system performance (number 72).

lumpy said...I'd love to have somene on here give me some good reasons why it's important that Obama wins a second term.

Because, by his actions, President Obama has demonstrated his intention to be a public servant, working on behalf of ALL Americans and not just those who worked to get him elected. And, in spite of the R's refusal to work with him, he has consistently tried to develop solutions working from common ground rather than simply splitting the difference between polar and irrational extremes.

In spite of all of the rhetoric to the contrary, President Obama really has been a middle-of-the road kind of president. And, if he is not elected to a second term, it will be the consequence of an electorate that expects a president to serve their selfish interests rather than the collective interest of the country.

Footnote to the members of the Tea Party - you may well influence the next President. If you are successful, please don't be surprised when your candidate throws you under the bus. He/she has already been bought and paid for by folks who could care less about you.

lkeithlu said... "The US ranks with many third world countries on several indicators, including health system performance"

As ranked from a socialist perspective, which assumes it is the role of the government to provide cradle to grave security. This kind of reminds me of your politifact argument. I looked at the Obama ratings and found a mind numbing barrage of innocuous "facts" where they were able to rate him as true, but then they give him half-true on more important topics that could never be classified as anything but false from a conservative perspective. When you look at the Glenn Beck ratings you find innocuous statements, prominently graded as false while the important, correct statements are rated as half-truths. Go figure. I guess perspective is everything!

It also reminds me of Clay Bennett getting awards for his work. Not too hard if you are a steadfast leftist ideologue being rated by steadfast leftist organizations.

Sorry, MtJohn, that won't do it for me. I don't see him working for all Americans. I feel he is pitting Americans against one another for political gain.

I see an energy he puts into being "party boss", that he doesn't put into leading this country, and leading ALL Americans. He ran as a unifier, but he's been nothing like that. He went out of his way, with the help of allies in the media, to bill himself as a unifier. He's a huge dispointment. He has very little tolerance for those who don't agree with him.

The class warfare thing is not what's needed at this time. As far as "selfish needs" goes, well, I'm sorry, but Obama is spending a lot of time and recieving a lot of donor money to please special interest groups.

Statements like: "those sons of a bitches" and "they can go straight to hell" do very little to help with unity. While he can't tell someone what to say or what not to say, he can make a strong statement about it.

As ranked from a socialist perspective, which assumes it is the role of the government to provide cradle to grave security. This kind of reminds me of your politifact argument. I looked at the Obama ratings and found a mind numbing barrage of innocuous "facts" where they were able to rate him on as true, but then they give him half-true on more important topics that could never be classified as anything but false from a conservative perspective. When you look at the Glenn Beck ratings you find innocuous statements, prominently graded as false while the important, correct statements are rated as half-truths. Go figure. I guess perspective is everything!

Meaning, if you don't personally agree, it must not be important. Bet you never looked at all the conservative "pants on fire" ratings.

I stand by my statement: rankings based on 8 criteria

http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_performance_ranks.html

We also do poorly in infant mortality, teen pregnancy, and obesity, healthy life expectancy, preventable deaths, etc. especially considering we are one of the most advanced and wealthiest nations on earth. If you are not embarrassed by it you should be.

BigRidgePatriot said: “The US did not become the world’s most powerful economy and the only superpower because we mimicked Europe. We are losing that position now BECAUSE we are mimicking Europe. Why can't the Left see that?”

Becoming and maintaining a position are different challenges, BRP. Has it ever occurred to you that spiraling private-sector health care costs is one of the major reasons we are losing that position? Year after year, the U.S. continues to pay more for healthcare than any other wealthy country in the world, but with worse outcomes. Why waste billions and billions of dollars financing the healthcare insurance industry for a system that ranks # 72 on a performance scale? It’s a ludicrous scenario, and we need to wake up.

Alprova said: "You left out the most important country. France. France provides health care to all within its borders and leads the world in all health care statistics across the board.France's economy is not in turmoil as a result of socialized health care either."

Thanks, Alprova. You're right, of course. I simply listed the European countries that quickly came to mind. I can't believe Harp3339 actually believes the U.S. is the only country with motivation? And it's even harder for me to understand why Harp3339 would be satisfied with a healthcare system that ranks #72 on a performance scale - talk about lack of motivation.

lkeithlu said... "I stand by my statement: rankings based on 8 criteria http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_performance_ranks.html"

Come on lkeithlu!, who or what is photius? What are the basis the 8 criteria? Can you site sources that are not so obscure that I could spend a day trying to figure out if the source is credible before we can examine the content?

This is real confidence inspiring!

http://www.photius.com

I certainly think there is room for improvement of our health care system but to suggest it has anything in common with a third world nation is, dog squeeze, and I stand by that statement.

Come on lkeithlu!, who or what is photius? What are the basis the 8 criteria? Can you site sources that are not so obscure that I could spend a day trying to figure out if the source is credible before we can examine the content?

Translation: I didn't even go to the site to see that the information is from the WHO. How do I know? Because the criteria are listed on the page. Just because you don't recognize the photius ranking doesn't make it either obscure or invalid.

The folks who are getting the free stuff don't like the folks who are paying for the free stuff, because the folks who are paying for the free stuff can no longer afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff.

And, the folks who are paying for the free stuff want the free stuff to stop. And the folks who are getting the free stuff want even more free stuff on top of the free stuff they are already getting!

Now... the people who are forcing the people who pay for the free stuff have told the people who are RECEIVING the free stuff that the people who are PAYING for the free stuff are being mean, prejudiced, and racist.

So... the people who are GETTING the free stuff have been convinced they need to hate the people who are paying for the free stuff by the people who are forcing some people to pay for their free stuff and giving them the free stuff in the first place.

We have let the free stuff giving go on for so long that there are now more people getting free stuff than paying for the free stuff.

Now understand this. All great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250 years after being founded. The reason? The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.

The United States officially became a Republic in 1776, 231 years ago. The number of people now getting free stuff outnumbers the people paying for the free stuff. We have one chance to change that in 2012. Failure to change that spells the end of the United States as we know it.

mountainlaurel said... "Year after year, the U.S. continues to pay more for healthcare than any other wealthy country in the world, but with worse outcomes"

The worse outcome is isolated to specific groups that exhibit behaviours that you seem to hold the health care industry for, like teen pregnancy and obesity.

Has it ever occured to you that we spend so much on health care because we are so rich that we can afford to do so?

How is our ranking wrt food spending per capita? housing spending per capita? transportation spending per capita? entertainment spending per capita?

Hey Ikeithlu, you think obesity is bad? Try starvation.

And that silly response somehow answers to the argument that Europe does better than the US with health care? Maybe you should shut up and let the grownups talk, L4F.

We spend more per of our GDP on health care and get crappier results than almost all western nations. It is an outrage. In part it is our unique American attitude of "don't tell me what to do" that has us driving instead of walking, eating out instead of cooking at home, and doing too much "cure" and not enough "prevention". We do a lot of stupid stuff just to spite ourselves.

Lumpy - class warfare in this country began with slavery and pogrom to eliminate indigenous people. It has morphed a few times since then but, in every case, class warfare has been waged by the weak and the powerful.

I continue to be amazed at how effectively the conservative folks in this country are able to use their own faults to define their adversaries. In your case, you will end up voting for a Republican who pits Americans against each other and explain your vote by blaming President Obama of that kind of behavior. You are a walking example of "What's the Matter With Kansas?"

whatsnottaken... nailed it!

lkeithlu said... “Translation: I didn't even go to the site to see that the information is from the WHO. How do I know? Because the criteria are listed on the page.”

I did. Are you just trying to waste my time? The 8 criteria, from YOUR resource...

Overall Health System Performance? Where did this obscure number come from, how was it calculated?

Health Level (DALE)? Common household definition there! Everyone knows what that one means, right?

Health Distribution? Is this one of those socialist measurements that measures the equal availability to all resources to all citizens?

Responsiveness Level? How on earth did photius arrive at this number?

Responsiveness Distribution? Argh!

FAIRNESS IN FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTION? Sounds like a socialist measurement to me.

Overall Goal Attainment? WHAT Goals?

Health Expenditure per Capita, OK I get that one! Not sure if this guy has the right numbers though.

Is the above how you measure the effectiveness of a healthcare system? For Pete’s sake ilkeithlu, if you are going to run around saying something as wacky as the US has the health care system of a third world country you had better come to battle with a sharper sword than that!

whatsnotaken..

You said it well. Like the Egyptians and the wheat that the leaders collected from the producers and handed out to the non-producres. Over time those harvesting the wheat decided it easier to just get the free stuff, you know the rest of the sotry.

A real world example of a gentleman I know that provides for his elderly parents and for a grandchild. Those charitable expenses plus local, state and federal taxes takes 73% of his income leaving him 27% to live on which is about 1.5X the poverty level for a family of 4 or $22,000 per year. The policies some posting advocate will reduce him to or near the poverty level. Our government reminds me of Margaret Thatcher after a visit to Russia saying,"isn't it amazing how everyone seems to be equally impoverished".

Wow, you guys got me to go back and read whatsnotaken's post, missed it earlier. Nailed it is right!

I agree that democracies are doomed to self-destruct. My first really big clue that I should not trust George Bush was when I noticed he was calling us a democracy and was promoting democracy in the Middle East. That showed a great lack of understanding of history and what this country was all about. Compassionate Conservatism indeed!

whatsnottaken....

How many of our leaders and how many voters do you think have actually read enough history to know where we are in the life cycle of a dynasty? You hear the same words that people said then from our leaders and people. Some examples are "We are the greatest nation in the history of the world", "we are different than those failing in the past" "we will recover and things will be good again" come to mind. Their governments made the same promises to the people ours are making.

The political rhetoric with many words all are saying "I am from the government, I am here to help you, I am on your side, trust me it will only hurt for a while." Those handling the "free stuff" want the "free stuff programs" to grow so their job security and income keeps growing as well. Just look at the number of new positions result from the AHCA.

mountainlaurel said... “Eugene Robinson is right about the Republican perspective. It lacks a moral dimension.”

The moral dimension for Democrats consists of spending the money of others on people who will elect Democrats for doing so. When it comes to investing their own time and money for those in need, the pretended moral dimension of Democrats evaporates.

“Demolished, with hard data: the myth that liberals are more generous and "compassionate" than conservatives: Who Really Cares: America's Charity Divide -Who Gives, Who Doesn't, and Why It Matters by Arthur C. Brooks http://www.hebookservice.com/products/bookpage.asp?prod_cd=c6989

James Carville apparently has Clay Bennett’s ear when it comes to thinking about Obama’s chances against the Tea Party. Carville’s advice? PANIC.

“Why Obama Should Withdraw” by Steve Chapman (The Chicago Tribune, 9/18/2011)

“The sputtering economy is about to stall out, unemployment is high, his jobs program may not pass, foreclosures are rampant, and the poor guy can't even sneak a cigarette.

“His approval rating is at its lowest level ever. His party just lost two House elections -- one in a district it had held for 88 consecutive years. He's staked his future on the jobs bill, which most Americans don't think would work.

“The vultures are starting to circle. Former White House spokesman Bill Burton said that unless Obama can rally the Democratic base, which is disillusioned with him, "it's going to be impossible for the president to win." Democratic consultant James Carville had one word of advice for Obama: "Panic."

“But there is good news for the president. I checked the Constitution, and he is under no compulsion to run for re-election. He can scrap the campaign, bag the fundraising calls and never endure another Republican debate as long as he's willing to vacate the premises by Jan. 20, 2013.

“That might be the sensible thing to do.”

http://townhall.com/columnists/stevechapman/2011/09/18/why_obama_should_withdraw/print

The payroll tax cut proposal won't help the U.S. economy when people use it to buy imported goods. No leader is offering a plan to increase the competitiveness of American manufacturers.

Business income tax revenue averages around 23% with businesses paying between 0% and 38% due to government manipulation and favor showing. Financial and other service industries are shown favor by both parties. The education system does not prepare people for employment and is still in the 1960s process of educating. New Orleans has proven charter schools do a better job at much lower cost than public systems. According to people in New Orleans Katrina had some good effects, wiping out the public school system was one of them.

WhatsWrongWithTheWorld said: “Myth that liberals are more generous and compassionate than conservatives . . . Who Gives, Who Doesn’t etc.”

Giving to who and what cause, WWWTW? The U.S. has an incredible number of questionable “charitable” organizations. All things considered, it seems to me that nobody is giving enough through their charitable donations to eliminate the number of children in the U. S. living in poverty. According to data released by the U.S. Census Bureau, there are 16.4 million children, or 22 percent of our nation's children, living in poverty (annual income below $22,000 a year for family of four).

BigRidgePatriot asked: "Has it ever occured to you that we spend so much on health care because we are so rich that we can afford to do so?"

If this is the case, why do have 49.9 million people in the U.S. without adequate healthcare?

moutainlaurel,

OK girl, what is your definition of adequate healthcare?

BigRidgePatriot said: "OK girl, what is your definition of adequate healthcare?"

Uninsured, BigRidgePatriot. According to the 2010 U.S. Census figures, the nation’s uninsured population grew to 49.9 million people in 2010, an increase of more than 900,000 from 2009.

It's a waste of time arguing with BRP. No sources are ever good enough.

Great cartoon, Clay, and quite accurate.

mountainlaurel said... "Uninsured"

So, you figure that everyone that is uninsured is not getting adequate healthcare? Can you not comprehend that many of those uninsured are perfectly healthy and do not need healthcare? Is it possible for you to consider that someone might be able to pay for the health care they do need without having insurance?

Is it possible for you to admit that not having insurance is not the same as not having adequate health care? And, as such, you are misusing statistics?

Let me guess, you think it is a good idea that all insurance should be required to pay for birth control.

lkeithlu said... "It's a waste of time arguing with BRP. No sources are ever good enough."

No, it is a waste of time to argue with BuRP if you are using junk sources. It is especially important to recognize this when you are throwing around wacky statements that might grab his attention.

Healthcare in the US is like that of third world countries? Who did you think you were going to convince of that one?

One of the key ways to help yourself come to informed conclusions is to vet your sources. Give it a try sometime.

mntl,

Talk to a few doctors about what they think of medicare rates which are not neogtiated but dictated. Some are already rejecting new medicare patients. A PPO or HMO does have negotiated rates with less but a similar adverse impact that distorts the cost to those don't have medicare or employer provided coverage. The government has distorted the system and is still borrowing money to pay medicare claims.

Alprova... I don't know where you get your data on France. I guess the news about riots and protest about their reduced support of welfare programs are not accurate. I assume you are familiar with their tax rates and other revenue generators.

mntl... The lack of motivation is the lack of work iniatives and pursuing success. Those quoting comparison stats fail to mention how the U.S. ranks among the highest in obesity and other poor health practices. Could the ability to obtain free health care have anything to do with that? Perhaps we need more spending for an effective treatment of ignorance.

mountainlaurel said... Giving to who and what cause, WWWTW? The U.S. has an incredible number of questionable “charitable” organizations. All things considered, it seems to me that nobody is giving enough through their charitable donations to eliminate the number of children in the U. S. living in poverty.

You can begin finding answers to your question by hitting the link I provided and scrolling down. You can read more in the book itself or in the sources it cites, or in a hundred other pieces of research easily available if you can tear yourself away from the goofy leftwing propaganda sites to which you limit your citations.

By “questionable” charitable organizations, I assume you mean those that work independently of taxpayer dollars or those that involve a religious element (i.e. the most effective charities). You’re right that no one is giving enough, especially liberals. In fact, according to Brooks’ research, the poor children you say you are concerned about are likely giving more to charity than you are.

Private charity hasn’t entirely solved the problem of poverty. Neither have candy-men politicians. It is clear, however, that the political solution most often creates multi-generational dependency, thus dehumanizing the recipients of political largesse. If you are not aware that this is the case, I seriously doubt if you have much personal interaction with poor people, and I am certain you have ignored research about the long-term destructive effects of Great Society-inspired manipulation of the poor.

Yes mntl there are a number of inefficient questionable charities and the federal government is among the worst. The governments so called war on poverty is as ineffective as their war on drugs. The federal government has reduced the deduction for charitable contributions and the proposal is to reduce deductions for charitable contributions more. I can't think of one thing the government does well and efficiently. The military does a good job of defense but the military industrial complex cost is out of control.

Health care and welfare are not and should not be a federal responsibility but a local and state issue. Giving any government more tax revenue is like giving ice cream to a diabetic. Local and state governments can afford such activities as well as the federal government which is obvious by the spiraling federal debt. At least state governments are required to balance their budget.

BRP wrote: "Can you not comprehend that many of those uninsured are perfectly healthy and do not need healthcare?"

Can you not comprehend that there are millions of people out there, many in poor health, who are uninsured and who additionally put off preventative health costs in order to provide a roof over their heads and to feed their families?

Uninsured people do not experience the luxury of merely having to pay a co-pay to see a doctor. A first-time visit with a doctor can run $250.00. They don't get by with co-pays for prescriptions either. Maintenance drugs can run hundreds of dollars per month, even with discounts offered through chain drug stores.

"Is it possible for you to consider that someone might be able to pay for the health care they do need without having insurance?"

Sure, there are those out there who can. But the fact of the matter is that there are millions out there who cannot. They do well to put a roof over their heads, to pay utilities, to keep their broken down car running, and to feed themselves and their families.

"Is it possible for you to admit that not having insurance is not the same as not having adequate health care? And, as such, you are misusing statistics?"

Let me put it this way. A lack of insurance is a leading cause for people to not have access to health care, especially if they cannot afford to pay for the costs associated that health care providers charge the uninsured for such access.

You are arguing from a position where you probably have had a decent job and access to employer sponsored health insurance your entire working life.

Try imagining what you would do if you lost that job tomorrow and how long you could hold it all together for you and yours.

Could you pay your COBRA payments out of an unemployment check? Could you make your car payments? Could you pay your mortgage? How long do you think it would take to find another job, with the same benefits that you probably have now?

You have no idea what it is like out there now. And it makes no matter how good a work record that you have. Depending on your particular qualifications, there are 10 people just like you applying for every job that comes open.

BRP wrote: "Healthcare in the US is like that of third world countries? Who did you think you were going to convince of that one?"

I was the one who made that statement. And you are twisting what was said to mean something different entirely.

No one stated that our health care system is like that offered in third world countries. Those who have access to our system of health care in this country receive fine health care treatment.

Our system of health care in this nation is primarily profit oriented and people are denied access to all but emergency health care if there is no profit in it, by all but a slim minority of health care providers. You'd know this if you did NOT have health care insurance.

Most doctor's offices will turn down flat to treat anyone who does not have health care insurance and the lack of funds to pay for treatment. Almost all offices collect insurance information or a check up-front these days, or you are turned away.

As of today, approximately 50 million people in our nation are uninsured. Most of those people, if they have a job at all, they don't earn enough to begin to pay for health care costs at the retail prices demanded of those who do not have insurance.

I've been paying for mine and my wife's health care costs out of my own pocket for the past three years, since I was discharged from a job, because of my wife's health care claims.

I had to look long and hard to find a primary care facility that does not charge and arm and a leg, but despite all that, I am sitting on to of more than $25,000 in hospital costs accumulated since May of this year, when I had my first stroke.

You don't know what it's like for the uninsured and until you find yourself walking in their shoes, you never will.

Harp3339 wrote: "Alprova... I don't know where you get your data on France. I guess the news about riots and protest about their reduced support of welfare programs are not accurate."

The riots in 2009 had nothing at all to do with any reduced support of welfare programs.

The riots that occurred were touched off after the death of a young Algerian man, Mohamed Benmouna, in police custody. Riots on Bastille day are a frequent occurrence in France to protest high unemployment rates and failed integration policies for minorities.

The perfect Mallard, at last.

It puts Clay in his place rather nicely.

http://www.seattlepi.com/comics-and-games/fun/Mallard_Fillmore/

BRP, I'd like you to support your statement that my link was "junk". Otherwise you are being dishonest.

WWWTW said: “By “questionable” charitable organizations, I assume you mean those that work independently of taxpayer dollars or those that involve a religious element."

Sorry to disappoint you, but your assumptions are incorrect, WWWTW. The questionable “charities” I was referencing was more the type found in this New York Times article:

“WASHINGTON — Louisiana’s biggest corporate players, many with long agendas before the state government, are restricted in making campaign contributions to Gov. Bobby Jindal. But they can give whatever they like to the foundation set up by his wife months after he took office.

AT&T, which needed Mr. Jindal, a Republican, to sign off on legislation allowing the company to sell cable television services without having to negotiate with individual parishes, has pledged at least $250,000 to the Supriya Jindal Foundation for Louisiana’s Children.

Marathon Oil, which last year won approval from the Jindal administration to increase the amount of oil it can refine at its Louisiana plant, also committed to a $250,000 donation. And the military contractor Northrop Grumman, which got state officials to help set up an airplane maintenance facility at a former Air Force base, promised $10,000 to the charity.

The foundation has collected nearly $1 million in previously unreported pledges from major oil companies, insurers and other corporations in Louisiana with high-stakes regulatory issues, according to a review by The New York Times.

It is among the newest of charities set up by elected officials, including members of Congress, or their families that are mutually beneficial: companies seeking to influence politicians or curry favor can donate unrestricted amounts of money, while the officials benefit from the good will associated with charitable work financed by businesses. . .

Ethics watchdog groups say the contributions are no accident.

“The motives might be good,” said Melanie Sloan, director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics, which has also examined public records detailing the operations of Mrs. Jindal’s charity. “But the donations that come in to charities like this are almost always from folks who want something from a politician. It is a troubling phenomenon. . .”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/us/politics/03jindal.html?pagewanted=all

BigRidgePatriot said: “Is it possible for you to consider that someone might be able to pay for the health care they do need without having insurance?"

You’re beginning to sound like a starry-eyed dreamer, BigRidgePatriot? May I ask if you had anyone in particular in mind? Warren Buffett? BigRidgePatriot? Bill Gates? David Koch?

“This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/health/bankruptcy.medical.bills_1_medical-bills-bankruptcies-health-insurance?_s=PM:HEALTH

OTTAWA (The Borowitz Report) – Canada warned today that if Gov. Rick Perry (R-TX) is elected President of the United States in 2012, it would take the “regrettably necessary step” of constructing a 20-foot fence along its entire border with the U.S.