published Tuesday, August 14th, 2012

Debate on Boy Scouts' gay ban persists

When the Boys Scouts of America reaffirmed its no-gays policy last month, the immediate reaction was predictable. Liberal advocacy and gay rights groups, for the most part, denounced it. Conservative groups -- religious, political and civic -- generally supported it. One group with strong BSA ties took longer to make its views known. Eagle Scouts, those who earned the organization's highest rank, are similarly divided over the issue, but those distressed by the policy are now taking dramatic action to protest the ban. They are returning heir cherished, hard-won medals.

No one is sure how many Eagle Scouts have returned their badges, but the count seems to be growing. So does the number of Eagle Scouts who have sent pictures and letters to media outlets and Scout offices to protest the policy, or who have condemned the policy but say they will keep their medal and work actively to reverse the ban. The total already might be in the tens of thousands.

Boy Scout officials refuse to provide a count of Eagle Scouts who have returned medals or officially made their disagreement known. A spokesman did say that the group respects the protesters' right "to express their opinion." Perhaps the organization believes silence will shorten the lifespan of the protest against the ban on openly gay youth and adults as members and leaders. That's extremely unlikely.

The protest is too heartfelt to expire soon. Typical of the disgusted engendered by reaffirmation of the ban are remarks from a physician in Illinois and a lawyer in Kentucky, both holders of the Eagle medal. "I can no longer maintain any connection to an organization which actively promotes such a bigoted and misguided policy," said Dr. Robert Wise. "To that end, I am interested in removing all evidence that I was ever a Scout."

Jackson Cooper, from Louisville, said he was unsure if any of his fellow Scouts were gay. "But I do know," he wrote, "that my now deceased mother, a lesbian, would not have been allowed to serve as a den mother if her orientation had been public knowledge. The thought that I have invested such a large part of my life with an organization that would have turned my own mother away breaks my heart."

Eagle Scouts, arguably, are the most visible proponents of Scouting, and their voices should be heard. BSA officials should heed the protesters, not stifle or ignore them. The BSA should revisit the reaffirmation of its ban on gays rather than adamantly say the topic is closed to additional discussion.

Doing so would acknowledge the increasing inclusiveness of U.S. society and honor the rules in the handbook which call on Scouts (and, by inference, Scouting) to respect and defend the rights of all people. Refusing to do so should and will extend the current debate.

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The Purging of Eagle Scouts

The Boy Scouts of America has an oath which reads: "On my honor, I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight."

Recently news stories detail how homosexual [some] Eagle Scouts are quitting the organization. This is in protest to the Boy Scout's stance on homosexual membership. Words like 'honor', and, 'God' make it clear that the B.S.A is a religiously orientated entity. All of the world's great religions do forbid homosexuality. Some would argue that the extreme rates of HIV/AIDS in the homosexual community partly explains the religious backlash. As a past Boy Scout troop member, and, later, a Cub Scout Master, I find it honorable that some of the Eagle Scouts are quitting. They are possibly preventing the spread of certain diseases within the Scouting ranks. Some of them know, through a belief in God, that they do not belong with innocent youth. Hopefully, the self-initiated purge of these Eagle Scouts will continue....AND INCREASE!

Ken Orr

August 14, 2012 at 10:51 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Ken Orr,

"They are possibly preventing the spread of certain diseases within the Scouting ranks. Some of them know, through a belief in God, that they do not belong with innocent youth. Hopefully, the self-initiated purge of these Eagle Scouts will continue....AND INCREASE!"

They aren't preventing the spread of any diseases. They are protesting bigotry and blatant hatred.

Homosexuals belong with youth just as much as heterosexuals. You should be referring to 'pedophiles'. I doubt many 'pedophiles' are leaving the Scouts. Those are the people you should be preaching against. But you can't differentiate between the two.

There is no hoping. One day, you and people the believe like you will be the minority. And homosexuals will be fully accepted into our society as they should be.

August 14, 2012 at 1:38 p.m.
una61 said...

I was 15 years old when I received my Eagle Scout Award in 1954. President Eisenhower's signature is on my Eagle Scout certificate. My son received his Eagle Scout Award 15 years ago. We enjoy a special bond, I think, due to the hard work he did to make Eagle and my participation in the process. Only about 2-3% of kids who enter scouting make Eagle. I hope the Boy Scouts continue to produce Eagle Scouts. Our nation's future will be enhanced by their leadership.

August 14, 2012 at 2:13 p.m.

For the sake of new readers I will re-post a comment from another article. Nationally & world wide, high level people request re-tweets on Tweeter, re-prints of powerful books, etc.. This is to disseminate valuable information to those who may benefit.

......................... SEXUALLY ABUSED!.........................

Is it abusive if I ask readers to follow a bit of logic? Does this not meet the requirements of intelligent discussion within a current thread? For example: The Boy Scouts of America has been a glowing example of Americanism. They have produced some of the greatest leaders throughout the whole earth. Patriotism in it's grandest, most noble form, is found among those in the Scouts. This also applies to those who have been affiliated with the Scouts in the past. Now...the logic. "The Boy Scouts of America has produced a well reasoned association of ideas. There is a definite correlation founded upon semantic and analytic factual information. Powerful, distinguished, well educated, morally upright, patriotic individuals have drawn certain definite conclusions." (My original statement is in quotations). (I am not trying to speak for the Boy Scouts of America, these are solely my opinions). 1. Homosexual individuals are banned from the Boy Scouts of America. 2. This ban is to protect Youth from sexual abuse. 3. The association/correlation presumed is: Homosexual individuals are possible/probable Child Sexual Abusers. The man who viciously sexually abused me as a Toddler had, earlier in life, been a Life Scout (level of achievement within Scouting). Later on I became a Tenderfoot, Second Class, then First Class Scout. As a Cub Scout Master in TN , I determined to be the highest level of an honorable example to my Cubs. I would sing silly songs to them, and, act like a clown just to get them to smile. We also had many serious, character-building events. I cannot stand the thought that predators would ever, ever, even get close to any of these Children.


August 14, 2012 at 9:40 p.m.
Easy123 said...

"The association/correlation presumed is: Homosexual individuals are possible/probable Child Sexual Abusers."

And the same correlation should be made for any heterosexual men and women that work with youth in any capacity, correct?

August 14, 2012 at 10:30 p.m.
dao1980 said...

Dern it Kenneth.. Why not post imaginary statistics and far fetched correlations illustrating how those who refuse to cope with a traumatic event become terrible, hateful, deluded people??

You should have enough information on it to write a novel every time you look in the mirror.

August 15, 2012 at 7:28 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

It's become apparent from the above remarks and his continual rantings on the TFP and other forums that Mr. Orr is seriously mentally ill. At first I thought he was just a religious nutter (crazy thumper regardless of their chosen deity), but from his many responses and self-contradictions, I'm convinced he has mental problems.

I thought he might be like a boxing opponent with one arm. Yet with his continued mental issues, all raised by him in his posts, I'm not sure he's even in the boxing arena.

That doesn't make him less dangerous though. He appears in the same league as other severely mentally ill fanatics such as Andrea Yates, Jared Loughner, and Wade Michael Page.

Rarely have I seen such bizarre rantings as from Mr. Orr. I hope he's on the Homeland Security watch-list. Not because he's a self-proclaimed christian, but because of his mental fixations, self-delusions, and inability to hold to any semblance of rationality in his own writings.

C.S. Lewis, while I do disagree with him on many things, offered rational and coherent Christian apologetic thought. One could talk with Mr. Lewis, have a strong disagreement on religion, and still know that Mr. Lewis was a decent and sane man. One could learn much from Mr. Lewis without subscribing to his religious beliefs. I certainly have.

On the other hand, Mr. Orr offers his own indivisible self/god concepts as religious facts. He is mentally deranged and probably has been for many years. Religion has a way of doing that for those who have serious problems separating reality from fantasy. Mental institutions are full of such people.

I am not a medical doctor and these are my opinions, but I have dealt with such individuals before and Mr. Orr fits a pattern of severe mental illness and poses a high degree of danger to others.

I am choosing to no longer respond to Mr. Orr. It's unnecessary as his own posts prove him unstable and delusional. The more he writes, the deeper he recedes into a mental black hole.

I always welcome spirited debate and opposing opinions; that how I learn. But Mr. Orr offers neither and I will not entertain his psychological breakdown any further.

August 15, 2012 at 1:16 p.m.
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