published Thursday, August 16th, 2012

Cathy speaks biblical truth and other letters to the editors

Cathy speaks biblical truth

While it is true that Dan Cathy and Chick-fil-A's First Amendment rights were not violated, the spirit of freedom of speech certainly got a good whuppin' on social media and in mainstream outlets!

He did not say that homosexual customers (nor employees) are not welcome at his businesses. And, I bet that many sexual orientation-challenged citizens have worked for or have been customers of this organization for years.

But when some government leaders and popular "talking heads" climb up on their soapboxes calling Dan Cathy and his business homophobic and a hate group, it's just wrong! Maybe, just maybe, those who are dumbfounded and insulted at the ownership of Chick-fil-A in having the gall to speak their Christian beliefs are heterosexual haters.

What Dan Cathy said was scripturally correct, but not politically correct. I'll take biblical truth over popular opinion any day.

JEFFREY T. COX, Dalton, Ga.


Story contributes to moral decline

As I opened the paper to the "Life" section (Aug. 9), I could not believe my eyes.

The article I am referring to is "Saucy Spin" by Holly Leber.

Is there a shortage of articles of interest to write about to the point that you have to print trash?

If you wonder why there is such a moral decline in this country, this is a prime example.

I am very disappointed in your choice to glorify this garbage. I am a long-time subscriber to your paper, and I hope this won't continue.

BARBARA KING, Rossville, Ga.


We have twisted economic process

Walter Williams, what in the world are you talking about in your column "The evils of (corporate) socialism" (Aug. 12)? Radical right-wing nuts squeal if "conservatism" and seminal Nazism are compared. Show a little restraint so we don't have to remind you that the tyrannies of the 20th century were more about corporate socialism than social justice.

Means of production were co-opted by the state, and party elites exploited the masses in the name of social justice. Movements to improve life for the masses were squashed to protect the privileged. An innovative society, we twisted the process. Corporate interests have co-opted the state and are squeezing the potency out of the middle class in the name of free enterprise and individual liberty.

Like the Germans, Russians and Chinese before us, we have been through a rough patch. While not as rough as theirs, it is worse than any we have dealt with in 90 years.

We are left suckers for slogan slinging, chest thumping and pious, patriotic posturing. We are manipulated by corporatist socialist demagogues hysterically preaching that producers should not have to pay, though they are the heaviest users and beneficiaries of infrastructure, defense and government services.

FRANK WHITE


Stimulus funds did the job

In your editorial (Aug. 14) on the selection of Paul Ryan as Gov. Mitt Romney's running mate, you referred to TARP as the "$700 billion Wall Street bailout bill." While that description of TARP accurately describes what was authorized, it is a serious distortion of the true cost of the act.

The scorecard as of Aug. 1 for TARP and the related bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is as follows: $602 billion has been invested, loaned or paid out; $309 billion has been returned; and $82 billion has been earned on amounts loaned or invested. Thus, the net cost of these two bills today is $211 billion, but only $64 billion is attributable to TARP, and most, if not all of that amount, will ultimately be repaid.

The truth is that the TARP represents money well-spent and should have been even larger. As is frequently pointed out, Japan and Europe provide sobering examples of what would have happened without TARP. The recent efforts of revisionist historians notwithstanding, government stimulus spending has blunted the effects of both the Great Depression and the Great Recession.

STEVE A. BOVELL


Ryan editorial a plus for Obama

A third of the Free Press Aug. 14 editorial "Ryan's disappointing reality" praised the Romney-Ryan ticket, elaborated on the virtues of Paul Ryan and described in detail what he can do as the Republican vice presidential nominee: (1) Galvanize the Tea Party, (2) Bring in new financial contributions and (3) help win the state of Wisconsin for the Republican side. You state -- "For these three reasons, Romney's pick of Ryan is undeniably wise."

But then the remaining two-thirds of the editorial bashes Ryan as "an impostor" and a "RINO." It never once described what he can do to help our country get out of debt and get back on a balanced budget.

My question is: Where are you coming from? My take is that you are the RINO. With all your rhetoric, you have probably done more to help re-elect President Obama than anything the Democrats can say or do. I think your column should have been more appropriately placed on the Chattanooga Times editorial page.

ARTHUR J. TURNER


Put 'unfair' label on sales tax too

The second of your editorials on Aug. 11 ("Gas taxes add up for drivers"), acknowledges that "Gas taxes are particularly unfair because they hit the poorest people the hardest." In fact, you devote two paragraphs to developing this vital and valid point.

A sales tax on necessities affects "the poorest people" in the same way the gas tax does: both are regressive taxes. Tennessee's heavy reliance on the sales tax is what led the commission appointed in 1974 by Republican Gov. Winfield Dunn to conclude that Tennessee's overall tax structure is, indeed, unfair.

Thus, I was disappointed, but not surprised, that the very next day, Aug. 12, in your editorial "Tennessee Democrats a Joke," you wonder who but Democrats "would push for an income tax that would devastate Tennessee's economy and send businesses and residents scurrying ..."

You seem to be asserting that businesses will not "scurry" from Tennessee only if the state's tax structure hits "the poorest people the hardest."

One would be hard pressed to refute your point, unintended though it must be.

BILL CUSHMAN


Heed warning signs on shooters

As a long-time member of the NRA, I was not pleased to read David Cook's (Aug. 8) column "The case of treason against the NRA." It was not based on fact, but rather his left-biased opinion regarding gun ownership, and it belonged on the opinion page.

In just about every case of mass shootings by an individual, there were many warning signs beforehand that were ignored by people in responsible charge. Even the U.S. Army chose to transfer an obviously disturbed officer to Fort Hood, where he committed multiple homicides.

In most cases, it seems to me that political correctness was a major factor in authorities not taking control of someone who had serious mental problems. In Aurora, Colo., the university abdicated its responsibility to protect the community from a dangerous situation, much like Penn State did in the Sandusky case.

Until society stops tip-toeing around these issues for fear of adverse publicity or litigation, the public will continue to see predators turned loose on them with no warning!

GUS SPAHR, Mentone, Ala.


'Raunchy' article is out of place

The newspaper has always been a part of our lives, and we usually read the Times Free Press every day. There are many things I enjoy and some I don't, but the Aug. 9 paper really upset me with the front page of Section E, "Naughty new fitness class heats up on the North Shore." Even if I were not a Christian, this article certainly was offensive to most decent citizens -- "Raunchy" certainly did describe the article.

This was not an article I would want my young people to read in the paper and feel that this is all right since it was printed in a "family" newspaper.

ANN D. ANDERSON


Settle prayer issue in a referendum

I have a novel idea on how to settle the controversy on prayer at the Hamilton County Commission meetings. Put it on the ballot in the November election and let the voters of Hamilton County decide if they want their leaders to pray before making decisions that effect everyone in the county. I also think the results of the vote should apply to all public meetings.

It's funny that prayer was not an issue for 225 years of our nation's history, but for the last 25 years or so, it has become politically incorrect. It certainly was not politically incorrect for our Founding Fathers. Our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

MARSHALL WATSON


Compare 'apples' in insurance spat

Parkridge has accepted Network S and I am sure Network P plans from BlueCross BlueShield insureds for at least two years. Memorial has not accepted BCBS Network S. If you want to compare apples to apples, doesn't this factor in the equation? Why has Memorial refused Network S in the past while others accept this plan? Now, not only is it refusing Network S but also Network P.

I intend no disparagement of Memorial. The fact is, I am pleased with the services I received from Parkridge, not only from the standpoint of quality of medical care, but I have been treated as a person, not a number.

I do not blame Memorial for the breakdown in negotiations with BCBS but the corporate greed that exists in our culture.

I received a letter from Memorial that says "Memorial will not bill you any more for our services today than we did before BlueCross ended negotiations. ... We've asked BlueCross to be fair with us, and now we're asking BlueCross to be fair with you." This does not help me become confident with Memorial in the least.

DAVID ROSE, Ooltewah


Home-schoolers on school teams unfair

Please ask advocates of letting home-schoolers play on school teams if they also have respect for all the children who attend school every day, children who have been at school all day and want to play.

A child who has followed school rules and school schedules and wants to be on a team should not risk being benched or cut by a child who has been at home all day -- possibly with a nap or even a personal trainer. A level playing field is impossible to create at best.

Home-schooled athletes might be better served to learn that choices have consequences (home school/no team vs. public school/possible team), not that they get to pick and choose only the parts they enjoy.

JOANNE PHILLIPS, Hixson

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Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.

JEFFREY T. COX, yes, they're just unwelcome to enjoy the protection or benefit of the laws of the land, if Cathy and you have anything to say about it.

And yet you try to present the other side as the haters? I don't know what would be more pathetic, you thinking that is true, or you knowing it is just a ploy to make yourself a victim.

ARTHUR J. TURNER, yep, you believe Ryan's rhetoric. Don't worry, I'm sure the editor will be put back in line.

BILL CUSHMAN, don't worry, the sales on yachts will make up for it.

GUS SPAHR, you don't realize you're asking for something far more terrible than strict gun control. Your solution would end up being a far worse problem.

MARSHALL WATSON, your ignorance of history is telling. There were huge arguments over religion in various forms, several colonies were even formed as a result of arguments with each other. Not to mention conflicts over "in god we trust" on coins and various religious revivals and sects.

But there's a reason why we don't put rights up for a vote. Given half a chance people would gladly vote to scourge atheists out of town. Sorry, but the reaction has been telling, and that alone is reason not to give you what you want. And actually, our state Constitution does guarantee freedom from religion. What do you think that bit about being free from maintenance means?

August 16, 2012 at 12:28 a.m.
Ozzy87 said...

When Dan Cathy's pen writes a check to support groups like the Family Research Council (who lobbied Congress to vote against a resolution condemning Uganda's new law making homosexuality punishable by execution), along with the American Family Association (Bryan Fischer), and the National Organization for Marriage (who sponsored a "defense of marriage" protest in NY in May 2011 where a "minister" who called for the same in this country) , it's no longer merely an opinion. He is advocating violence by financially supporting groups that de-humanize homosexuals. Words have power. Demonize a group long enough and at some point in time people come to accept them as sub-human. Jews were not the only ones slaughtered during the Holocaust. Homosexuals were also murdered. They were forced to wear pink triangle armbands, so that's why the pink triangle is a sign of gay pride. I've been gay-bashed. I walked out of a bar and was jumped by three guys. No robbery, just a lot of yelling " fg" and "qu*r", so I know first hand what scapegoating and propaganda can do some people.

August 16, 2012 at 1:06 a.m.
hambone said...

I wonder how many of the folks that rushed to Chick-Fil-A the other day had ever been there before or will ever go back. I tried it once in 1996!

August 16, 2012 at 2:52 a.m.
Fendrel said...

JEFFERY T. COX - While it may have been Biblical truth - keep in mind that there is little if any connection between "Biblical" truth and the real thing.

August 16, 2012 at 8:04 a.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

CONCLUSION:

'Cathy speaks biblical truth'

'Heterosexual Haters' are indeed among us! How very astute an

observation. 'HeteroPhobic' Censorship Groups are the same groups

who alerted the world to the Homosexual Agenda. They are a hyper-

sensitive Control Group with Oppression Psychosis [or, variants

thereof]. They desire to suppress free speech at any cost, and, by

any means. One of their primary motives to abolish First Amendment

Rights is to try to hinder exposure of their scorned behaviors

which endanger our Children, Families, and, Society at large.

Ken ORR

August 16, 2012 at 8:22 a.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

ROMANS 1:22- "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image

made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts,

and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to

uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour

their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth

of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than

the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause

God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did

change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman,

burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that

which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of

their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to

retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate

mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being

filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness,..."

Ken ORR

August 16, 2012 at 8:25 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

New Bible Buffet Opening in Ooltewah.

Here's a peek at the Divine Delights on the menu for good Bible Literalists to enjoy.

Crunch down on honey and locusts with out own John the Baptist's special for a $20.00 love offering. For sexy Xians, we now have exotic peek-a-boo rainments in our gift shop. (And the same John had his rainment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. Matthews 3:4}

Our Daily Bread Surprise — Now fortified with E. Coli (And thou shall eat it as barley cakes, and thou shall bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. Ezekiel 4:12)

Try one of our Godly Deserts — After a hard day of snake handling, visiting harlots (ala Jimmy Swaggert and friends), walking on water, casting out demons, stoning infidels, and selling Prayer Cloths and Holy Water, relax with a delicious mixture of your own body fluids as commanded by the Big Dude on a Throne. (But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? Hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you? Isaish 36:12)

Stop by and hang out with the Blessed Few and enjoy dinner and libations worthy of a prophet!

Wednesday Night is Stoning Night — Bring your church bulletin and receive an extra helping of Christ on a Cracker — Now Gluten Free!

(No hair shirt, No sandals, No service)

August 16, 2012 at 9:14 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Jeffrey Cox, "biblical truth" is an oxymoron. There is no truth in the Bible. Yes, there are indeed some truths in the book, but for the most part it is comprised of primitive myths and fables that have nothing to do with reality. One could easily edit out all of the garbage and nonsense and condense it to a very small booklet of aphorisms and inspirational sayings.

Even Christ's messages of brotherly love and compassion are not uniquely his words. There is very little evidence outside the Bible itself that JC ever walked the earth, especially not as a messiah, but not even as an all-wise prophet/teacher. Every utterance that supposedly flowed from his lips had been spoken or written long before him in the pagan religions.

Biblical truth? Not hardly. Truth is truth. It doesn' need a book to make it so.

August 16, 2012 at 11:48 a.m.
Vapfo said...

About Homeschoolers participating in school sports--The TimesFreePress had an editorial by Mary Chambers supporting homeschoolers participating in sports. Her perspective is because her brother Chip is good at basketball and her parents decided to home school him. I agree with the points made by Joanne Phillips in her letter to the editor. Choices have consequences. As a former middle school principal, I would not have wanted a person taking a spot on our teams that I was not educating. Our students have to pass classes, attend school regularly to play in games, and they have to stay out of trouble. Where is the quality control on grades for home school students, especially in Georgia where the home school regulations are virtually non existant? Where is the attendance incentive? Home schoolers in Georgia have to report attendance monthly of 3 hours per day in instruction. How does that compare to student athletes who are in school all day, practice every day, and participate in sports?
Recreation leagues and AAU travel teams are open to anyone. School teams should be for school students.

August 16, 2012 at 1:09 p.m.
Fendrel said...

Dan Cathy said, in part...

“I think we are inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say ‘we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage’ and I pray God’s mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about.”

So, basically he is saying how dare we think for ourselves! He's also implying that an imagined, invisible being's opinion should carry more weight in discussions than the combined thinking and analysis of the entire human race.

And you wonder why we are going downhill as a nation...well there it is - absurdity run rampant!

August 16, 2012 at 1:16 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

I completely agree with you, Joanne Phillips and you, vapfo. I think it's extremely unfair to the students and the parents and teachers of students in the schools to have to contend with home-schooled kids participating in the sports program. Obviously the parents of those kids think little of the actual education process of the school system, but sports and extra-curricular activities are an integral part of that education process. I don't think they should be able to cherry-pick what aspects of the school curriculum and activities they approve of and which ones they don't.

August 16, 2012 at 1:29 p.m.
hambone said...

I bet if the homeschooled kid can run fast carrying a football or kick it or throw it a mile they'll be glad to let him play.

If he can hit a 3 point shoot every time he tries, no problem!

August 16, 2012 at 2:22 p.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

CONCLUSION:

daytonsdarwin, Fendrel, Rickaroo~

Job 38- "...Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?... answer thou me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof...Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death? Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all. Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof? Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great? Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail...By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?... Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?...Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it."

Ken ORR

August 16, 2012 at 2:23 p.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

CONCLLUSION: {I suggested removal of my previous comment, being very similar to the follwing, yet I modified this one for greater clarity.) kwo

'Heterosexual Haters' are indeed among us! 'HeteroPhobic'

Censorship Groups are the same groups who alerted the world

to the Homosexual Agenda. They are a hyper-sensitive Control Group

with Oppression Psychosis [or, variants thereof].

They desire to suppress free speech at any cost, and, by

any means. One of their primary motives to abolish First Amendment

Rights is to try to hinder exposure of their scorned behaviors

which endanger our Children, Families, and, Society at large.

Ken ORR

August 16, 2012 at 2:29 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Ken Orr, whenever you post more of your quotes from the Bible, which is 99.99% of the time, this is what I see: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...etc.

Sir, I have read, studied, ingested, absorbed, and been brain-washed by your "holy" book for a large part of my life. Finally I saw the absurdity and nonsense of it. You might think you are quoting some absolute, straight-from-the-heart-of-God truth but you are babbling utter nonsense. I know nothing will ever change you and I'm not trying to. But if you're going to believe in such silly, childish, unintelligent rubbish, the least you could do is keep it to yourself and not bore the rest of us with your outrageous delusions and your pathetic self righteousness.

August 16, 2012 at 2:40 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Hambone, you might be correct in saying that. I'm sure there are some coaches who would love to have the athletic talent at their disposal, regardless of whether the kids were part of their school system or not. But that doesn't make it right. Even at college level, every member of the team must be enrolled at whatever school he/she is playing for. The coaches cannot simply go out and recruit someone without that new recruit becoming a certified student at the college they will be representing.

August 16, 2012 at 2:55 p.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

CONCLUSION:

The Holy Bible declares:

"As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly."

The Chic-Fil-A supporters are also admonishing Prodigal Sons/Daughters to return unto their first love, to enter, once again, The Ark of Safety!

Revelation 2:4

"Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love."

August 16, 2012 at 3:51 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Why Jehovah doesn't wear sandals or open-toed shoes.

"And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee: For the Lord thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp." Deuteronomy 23:13-14

You'd think He could smell it it with all those superpowers. Maybe He had a head cold.

August 16, 2012 at 4:04 p.m.
Fendrel said...

Ken,

I'll be happy to contend with God on just about any subject you like. How difficult can it be to best an imaginary opponent! Bring it on!

Warm up round...

I think the earth is round, God think's it's flat (1 pt. for me)

I don't think cattle looking at striped sticks while copulating is going to produce striped offspring...apparently God does (1 pt for me)

A man and his concubine show up for a night's stay. The owner of the house, unwilling to turn his guest over to a crowd for sex, instead offers his virgin daughter, not being sufficient, he entices them with his guest's concubine..they accept, rape her, leave her to bleed to death on his doorstep, when the concubine's husband finds her corpse he cuts her up into 12 pieces and sends a piece on to each tribe of Israel.... I find this immoral, God apparently does not (1 pt for me)

I think slavery is immoral, God doesn't seem to mind (1 pt for me)

God doesn't seem to think that commanding someone to bind and drag his son to an alter to slay him (sacrifice) as a test, will have any negative long term psychological effects for either the father or son, I disagree (another point for me)

Shall I go on? This is going to be a slam dunk.

August 16, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.
moon4kat said...

Some of the comments above are very funny and clever. Thanks to those with wit and critical thinking skills.

August 16, 2012 at 8 p.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

Dear Fendrel, You said, "I think the earth is round, God think's it's flat." WRONG!

Isaiah 40:22 "It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,... that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain,..." (חוג—chuw =sphere).

Dear Fendrel, You said, "I think slavery is immoral, God doesn't seem to mind." WRONG!

Jesus compares Menstealers [Slave Owners] to Murderers! Unholy.

I Timothy 1:9

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the LAWLESS and DISOBEDIENT, for the UNGODLY and for SINNERS, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for 'MENSTEALERS', for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is CONTRARY TO SOUND DOCTRINE..."

2 Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

August 17, 2012 at 4:39 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

The Earth is Flat — It's in the Bible!

"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth." Isaiah 11:12

Let's teach Creation Science.

Read Your Bible — it's more fun than sending sin-infested, demon-filled unbaptized babies to hell for eternity!

August 17, 2012 at 8:11 a.m.
Fendrel said...

ORR,

No, read more closely, God does NOT condemn slavery...the verse you quoted is condemning the practice of stealing people and then selling them in order to make them slaves.

The Bible many times exhorts holders of slaves to treat them well, (not to release them) and explicitly sanctions the taking of slaves as spoils of war.

So it is not slavery that is being condemned but rather kidnapping for that explicit purpose.

Regarding a flat earth, your interpretation is misleading and presumes a modern outlook of the cosmos which was not shared by any peoples of that time. Beyond that, the early church also taught the flatness of the earth...and believed that the truth of that teaching was derived from Holy Scripture. It wasn't until science proved the roundness of the earth that people started to read scripture in a different light.

No comments on the other points?

August 17, 2012 at 8:53 a.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

Hi Fendrel, Remember Jesus commanded us to love one another, as He loves us. This is not to argue, or, put You down! ἀνδραποδιστής is the transliteration of the English word 'menstealer'. The Holy Bible uses the word 'menstealer' in these ways:

1) a slave-dealer, kidnapper, man-stealer a) of one who unjustly reduces free men to slavery b) of one who steals the slaves of others and sells them

The Lord God of Hosts admonishes Christian slaves to demonstrate Christ-like behavior to their [so called] slave-masters.

Jesus Christ, through the Apostle Paul told a slave trader to not punish a slave name Onesimus, but, rather, to receive him as a 'Brother in Christ'. Earlier, Jesus made it clear, when speaking through the Apostle Paul, that one should oppose slavery. Please view the following:

1 Corinthians 7:21 King James Version (KJV) 21 "Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather."

(Also compare using other ['watered down'] versions of the Holy Bible. Compare them to the Authorized K.J.V. above.

The Lord God of Hosts, Jesus Christ, has sent many innocent people to prison, etc. because He needed certain 'prospects' reached. Our Saviour will go to where the lost people reside.+(:>

Saint John 3:16

August 17, 2012 at 11:55 p.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

daytonsdarwin,

Four Corners =kanaph, (Hebrew) Which is translated EXTREMITIES.

Paamouth - If the Lord wanted to convey the idea of a square, four-cornered earth, the Hebrew word paamouth could have been used. Paamouth means square. Instead, the Holy Spirit selected the word kanaph, conveying the idea of extremity.

2Ti 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

August 18, 2012 at 12:15 a.m.
Fendrel said...

You reference from Corinthians has nothing to do with slavery being immoral but rather almost the reverse. In order to preserve the order of the day, Paul admonishes that if you can come by your freedom (legally) then do so, if that's your desire, but otherwise don't let it bother you..in other words stay where you are. The fear was that Christianity would be perceived as a threat to slave owners.

Because the word for extremity was used, does not imply that the teaching was that the earth was round. As said before the common understanding at the time was a flat earth and that understanding was supported by scripture. Also remember that "round" does not imply "sphere"....a circle might be described as round..but still be thought of as flat (such as a disc).

Bottom line, the idea of a God is unsupported by direct evidence and thus, the entire line of argument is flawed from the beginning.

August 18, 2012 at 8:16 a.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

I respectfully disagree with Your presumptions, but, I do appreciate information regarding various viewpoints. I will offer You the conclusion of The Lord God of Hosts regarding slavery. All of these, and there are more, speak of Jesus desiring FREEDOM for us all:

John 8:36

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

Luke 4:18 Jesus said,

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,..."

Isaiah 61:1

"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;..."

James 1:25

"But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein,..."

Isaiah 58:6

"Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?"

August 18, 2012 at 12:55 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Orr,

You're wrong. The Bible specifically calls for slavery. Your god is very specific on the issue of slavery. I have included proof here:

1 Timothy 6:1

Ephesians 6:5-6

Titus 2:9-10

1 Peter 2:18

1 Corinthians 7:21, 24

Exodus 21:2, 4 ,7-8, 20-21

Deuteronomy 15:16-17

August 18, 2012 at 3:39 p.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

1 Timothy 6:1 means: The Lord God of Hosts admonishes Christian slaves to demonstrate Christ-like behavior to their [so called] slave-masters. This as a witness to bring them to Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 6:5-6 means: The Lord God of Hosts, Jesus Christ, has sent many innocent people to prison, etc. because He needed certain 'prospects' reached. Our Saviour will go to where the lost people reside.+(:> While on assignment they are to show Christ to others through their Christian behavior.

Titus 2:9-10 means: The Lord God of Hosts admonishes Christian slaves to demonstrate Christ-like behavior to their [so called] slave-masters. Hopefully, as in Philemon 1:10-19, the servants would win their [so-called] masters over to Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 2:18 means: Once again, the context speaks clearly that The Lord God of Hosts admonishes Christian slaves to demonstrate Christ-like behavior to their [so called] slave-masters.

1 Corinthians 7:21, 24 means: Verse 7:23 should give the obvious meaning: "Ye are bought with a price; BE NOT YE THE SERVANTS OF MEN."

Running out of allowed words...Moses' main assignment/obligation/duty/objective was to deliver millions out of slavery/bondage.

Anyway, please view again my comment (two posts above). This is the mind of Christ which longs for us to have absolute liberty, in every way, in Christ Jesus. This cannot be seriously disputed..kwo

August 18, 2012 at 11:41 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Orr,

Now you claim to speak for your deity. Again, you are delusional beyond comprehension. Your god promotes slavery over and over again in your "holy" book. Your points have been accurately disputed many, many times here. It's very simple to make you look like a fool.

August 19, 2012 at 2:19 a.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

Easy123~

Blessings Upon You! Is the following another way that Your Lord, God, and, Creator declares, "I totally do support slavery"? Easy123, is that truly Your interpretation of Your Saviour's Words here? Is it? Really?

Isaiah 58:6

"Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?"

John 8:36

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

Easy123, is that truly Your interpretation of Your Saviour's Words here? Is it? Really?

Now, I will give You this, there is a severe 'spanking' (Chastisement) Discipline Your Father in Heaven will finally give You, me, nations, etc. He sometimes sends people into slavery of many, many, powerful types. They are closed behind a door that no man can open for them. Abject slaves to their own personal demons...until they repent and their Lord, God, and, Master Jesus Christ opens the door for them...sometimes once again. Then no man can ever close it again, but, God can. So, I urge folks to be very circumspect! (Cautious). His Grace, and, Mercy is real, but, remember also, He has declared,

Genesis 6:3

"...My spirit shall not always strive with man..."

Also, none of us ever want to hear Him declare to us, "TOO LATE!" None of us ever want to be named "Ichabod" = The Spirit of The Lord Has Departed...

Ken ORR

Thank You, Easy, I do appreciate Your being willing to spend some time with me. I consider You a Member of my Family of Faith. I truly do...ken

August 19, 2012 at 1:45 p.m.
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