published Wednesday, August 22nd, 2012

The Caveman

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

149
Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.

Somehow I think Clay's going to get a "beating" from this one. Two in a row on the same subject.

Just unforgivable.

August 22, 2012 at 12:11 a.m.
wrdrennan said...

The GOP wants to tell women what they can and can't do with their bodies, but then screams to high heaven that the Affordable Care Act has too much government control over our bodies. Irony abounds.

August 22, 2012 at 12:15 a.m.

Another vapid slogan. Without a record or a message to run on, it's all you got. We'll see if the mantras work again.

August 22, 2012 at 12:54 a.m.
alprova said...

While we have been debating this subject for the past 48 hours, the Republicans have moved forward without any fanfare and with zipped lips, and passed a platform that includes a call for all Republicans to unite and to pass legislation that will prohibit all abortions, without any exceptions offered.

They may not be on board with Representative Todd Akin's former assessment of how a woman's reproductive system works, but they sure are uniting and planning to make yet another attempt to force all women who become pregnant to deliver that child, even when forcibly raped, a victim of incest, and even when carrying that child threatens the life of the mother.

Mitt Romney can stand in front of a camera all day long and declare his opposition to abortion legislation that would not include those exemptions, but given his record of flip-flopping on the issue of abortion, he cannot be trusted to keep his word if he were to be elected President.

Paul Ryan is only opposed to forcing a woman to carry a baby that threatens her life. He is fine and dandy with forcing women who were impregnated as a result of rape or incest.

Whether the Republicans and their cheerleaders care to admit it or not, the GOP just declared war on women in this nation, and like every other time this has been tried, the nation stops short of allowing them to gain enough power to push that agenda.

Timing is everything. It may well be that this renewed push to outlaw abortion was planned prior to Todd Akin's controversial remarks. Any attempt to offer that will most certainly be met with a very dubious narrowing of many people's eyes.

And like it or not, the Republicans just shifted the issue of abortion from the back burner where they hoped it would stay through November, right back to the front burner, and the heat will most certainly be turned up.

Every GOP candidate, no matter what office they are running for, will be grilled in the coming weeks about their stances on abortion. Voting records will be scanned. Co-sponsorships of key abortion related legislative efforts will be cited. Heads are going to roll and voting preferences will most definitely be changed.

Missouri Representative Todd Akin declared war the Republican Party at 5:00 pm yesterday, by refusing to bow to the demand that he bow out of the race for a Senate seat.

Good for him. The man may have been factually ignorant in utturing a sentiment that is more widely believed than people realize. What he spoke of can be found on many anti-abortion websites.

The Republicans were hoping to throw Todd Akin under a fast moving bus to avoid exposing their secret backdoor agenda that has now been exposed and that is now getting widespread media scrutiny that it deserves.

Todd Akin may be a Republican opposed to any instance of abortion, but over the past 48 hours, he has become a very reluctant hero for the Democrats.

August 22, 2012 at 1:35 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

"The GOP wants to tell women what they can and can't do with their bodies..."

B.S.

This line of argument is much like one that was sometimes used to defend the ownership of slaves, "Those abolitionists want to take away my private property", as it has the same fundamental flaw, i.e. there is a second human involved who is entitled to exactly the same rights but who is receiving zero consideration.

Pro-life/Anti-abortion sentiment is NOT an attack on women, it is a defense of human life. Abortion should only be an option under very limited circumstances.(rape, incest and to protect the life of the mother)

In a future, more enlightened time, pro-abortion sentiment will be regarded with the same sort of disdain that we currently have for slavery.

August 22, 2012 at 1:38 a.m.
alprova said...

Scotty wrote: "Pro-life/Anti-abortion sentiment is NOT an attack on women, it is a defense of human life. Abortion should only be an option under very limited circumstances.(rape, incest and to protect the life of the mother)"

So you then disagree with the Republican Party platform passed today that includes a new call for outlawing abortions but that does not include those three exemptions...right?

I have never been on board with abortion performed simply as a means of retroactive birth control. But I too absolutely feel that the three exemptions that you mentioned should be a part of any legislative effort to restrict abortion.

In a future, more enlightened time, pro-abortion sentiment will be regarded with the same sort of disdain that we currently have for slavery.

August 22, 2012 at 2:02 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

Sorry al, but you know as well as I do that a total ban on abortion is about as likely as a total ban on personal firearms.

It ain't gonna happen. Ever.

It's just another attempt to divert low information voters' attention away from the current administration's incompetence.

August 22, 2012 at 2:10 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Two days in a row, Clay....same topic. That's okay. It needs to be pounded home to the neanderthals that the women and those of us who support them and their rights are not going to take the BS that the Regressives are trying to force down everyone's throats. The brain-dead teabaggers are too dense and willfully ignorant to see what an obvious, blatant war on women the Repubs are waging, but anyone with a shred of common sense can see what's going down. Keep stretching the limits of decency, Regressives; keep going farther and farther into the nether regions of your right wing lunacy. It is going to end up biting you in the butt like a pit bull. You will either implode from your own idiocy or you will stir up the masses enough to drown you out with a tsunami of revolt. The crazier you get, the more people see what lunatics you are.

August 22, 2012 at 2:13 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Alpo said "I have never been on board with abortion performed simply as a means of retroactive birth control. But I too absolutely feel that the three exemptions that you mentioned should be a part of any legislative effort to restrict abortion." So Alpo, all this controversy for all these years was just about the 3 exemptions? Is that what you're saying? You're fine with banning abortion save these 3 situations? Hmmm?

August 22, 2012 at 2:18 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

Rickaroo: Positive proof that the same lie, repeated over and over, becomes the truth to low information people.

August 22, 2012 at 2:24 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Why are the most shrill voices those of the sperm donors?

August 22, 2012 at 2:34 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

nucanuck,

Most people do not have a computer in the kitchen?

/sarc

August 22, 2012 at 2:37 a.m.
nucanuck said...

scottym, the value of human life seems to be inverse to population growth. Is your "future, more enlightened time" a prediction of a long-term decline in human population?

August 22, 2012 at 2:48 a.m.
SCOTTYM said...

"the value of human life seems to be inverse to population growth."

I don't agree with that premise. It seems to me that, in the western world at least, the value of the individual is still much higher than it was, say 1000 years ago, even after its decline with the ascension of statist ideology.

I do believe that increased wealth, which carries along with it better education greater access to birth control and reduced early mortality, on a global scale will result in a decline in total population. Current birth rates in most first world nations are pretty convincing on this issue.

Does that answer the question?

August 22, 2012 at 3:02 a.m.
alprova said...

Scotty wrote: "Sorry al, but you know as well as I do that a total ban on abortion is about as likely as a total ban on personal firearms. It ain't gonna happen. Ever."

I would like to think so, but the Evangelicals are getting sneakier and sneakier as the years go on.

"It's just another attempt to divert low information voters' attention away from the current administration's incompetence."

You can't lay this one on the Liberals. Todd Akin drew first blood.

August 22, 2012 at 3:16 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

ScottyM, what I said above, "The brain-dead teabaggers are too dense and willfully ignorant to see what an obvious, blatant war on women the Repubs are waging"...that would be you I was talking about.

August 22, 2012 at 4:31 a.m.
joneses said...

Another pathetic attempt by one of Hussein Obama's puppet's, Clay Bennett, to be dishonest and avoid the failures of this pathetic fool in that occupies White House. The dummycrat manufactured lie called the war on women is a joke and no women with any sense at all will fall for this lie. This is a failed attempt to take peoples mind off Hussein Obama's high unemployment rate, Hussein Obama's massive debt, Hussein Obama's war in Afghanistan, Hussein Obamas failed economic policies and all Hussein Obama's other failures. The only thing wrong with America is Hussein Obama. The only way to stop the divisiveness in America is to get vote the hated filled Hussein Obama out of the White House. I would love to see him kicking and screaming on his way out the door.

August 22, 2012 at 5:40 a.m.
fairmon said...

Easy and free abortion may not be morally acceptable to many but as one post pointed out the better educated and affluent have a much lower birth rate and more planned parenthood than those in the dependent society. Therefore, a ban on abortion would increase the proliferation in the dependent segment of society. Is it wise to add to the population of those that cannot be provided work that they can do? There is little to no growth in low tech lower skilled work which does not yield tax revenue even if available. Logic should prevail over some emotional personal opinion where other people are subjected to those personal opinions or beliefs. Those beliefs are often based on a book full of violence and life taking in support of the beliefs being encouraged.

August 22, 2012 at 6:22 a.m.
EaTn said...

The extreme right-wing attitude on education, immigration, poverty, gender and worker rights, guns, senior citizens and health care are finally coming to light by many of those effected by their insensitive and uncaring policies.

August 22, 2012 at 6:23 a.m.
MTJohn said...

There may be a great divide in this country on the question of abortion. However, I suspect that there is general agreement that abortion is the least appropriate method for preventing unintended pregnancy. Despite that agreement, Congress has done nothing to reduce the frequency of unintended pregnancy in this country. Isn't it curious that the anti-abortion party is also the anti-birth control party?

August 22, 2012 at 6:29 a.m.
jesse said...

Actually abortion doesn't prevent pregnancy ,it terminates it!

August 22, 2012 at 6:31 a.m.
joneses said...

Let us talk about a real failure from Hussein Obama. Hussein Obama's failure in Afghanistan is much more of an issue than this stupid lie "war on women" the dummycrats fabricated. Let us talk about Obama's failed war in Afghanistan. One American soldier dies every day in Afghanistan.

The Obama administration has sent more U.S. troops to their deaths in Afghanistan than Bush—but many more are likely to die on Obama’s watch. The resistance in Afghanistan is stronger than ever before, and, as even the Pentagon generals admit, can never be defeated militarily.

And all we are promised is that in July 2011, based on “conditions on the ground,” the U.S. might send home some undisclosed number of troops from Afghanistan.

Last December, before Obama broke Bush’s record, he stood before the world to give the war effort a badly needed boost of support. He told us that our cause was just, that we had a new strategy to win the war, and that the end was right around the corner in 2011.

But this cause is not just. This is nothing but a war to access resources, new markets, and labor previously off-limits to U.S. capitalism. The new strategy to win the war has gone up in flames—even their highly publicized propaganda operation in Marjah, which was supposed to showcase the correctness and success of the new strategy, was a complete disaster and called a “bleeding ulcer” by McChrystal before he was fired.

The end is not around the corner—that was for public consumption. The promise was only to “begin withdrawing some troops.” Gen. Petraeus has already hinted that even this minor reduction in troops will be postponed. There is currently no end in sight.

August 22, 2012 at 6:32 a.m.
Reardon said...

Yawn.

August 22, 2012 at 6:36 a.m.
joneses said...

Obama is lying and more soldiers are dying.

Obama’s Watch: 39 Months, 69 Percent of Afghan War Casualties

Although President Obama has only served 39 months in office, 69 percent of the U.S. military fatalities in the more than 10-year-old war in Afghanistan have occurred on his watch.

Through April 30, the Defense Department had reported that 1,844 U.S. military personnel have been killed in and around Afghanistan while deployed in Operation Enduring Freedom, which was launched in October 2001 after al Qaeda terrorists attacked the World Trade Towers and the Pentagon.

According to CNSNews.com’s comprehensive database on Afghan war casualties, at least 1,275 of the 1,844 U.S. troops killed in the Afghanistan conflict have been killed since Jan. 20, 2009, when Barack Obama was inaugurated as president.

August 22, 2012 at 6:40 a.m.
joneses said...

Yawn? Typical liberal response. You would rather be in a discussion about a reality TV minded lie like the dummycrat fabricated "war on women" than talk about our brave soldiers being killed because of Hussein Obama's failed decisions in Afghanistan. Pathetic

August 22, 2012 at 6:45 a.m.
EaTn said...

joneses said... "Obama is lying and more soldiers are dying."

The reason Obama nor Romney are not discussing Afghanistan is because it's essential that we keep troops and support available somewhere in the region to protect our interests. Afghanistan is not the goal.

August 22, 2012 at 7:22 a.m.
dude_abides said...

joneses said...(to reardon) "Yawn? Typical liberal response."

LOL! joneses calls reardon a liberal because joneses' brain can't keep up with the posters here any more than it can keep up with modernity! No wonder he's so angry and confused. I love it when the hate cup of the conservatives runneth over. joneses, your posts are like bad breath... all day... every day.

August 22, 2012 at 7:38 a.m.
dude_abides said...

I think this cartoon depicts what women could do, but not necessarily what they will do. There's some kind of Stockholm Syndrome at work here, even though nobody ever knows how you vote. Just like the middle class males that cleave to the policies that benefit the wealthy.

August 22, 2012 at 7:47 a.m.
fairmon said...

EaTn says....

The reason Obama nor Romney are not discussing Afghanistan is because it's essential that we keep troops and support available somewhere in the region to protect our interests. Afghanistan is not the goal.

I am glad to know someone can enlighten us on just what the goal is and what our interest are that requires protection at such great sacrifice and cost?

August 22, 2012 at 7:49 a.m.
moonpie said...

Insurance mandated free contraception will decrease the number of unintended pregnancies, and decrease the number of abortions: a policy largely opposed by conservatives.

The effect is to heap all the reproductive responsibility onto women.

So while the war may not always be outwardly aggressive, it can be passively aggressive.


Also, conservatives keep saying Obama has no record to run on, or a record of failure. Obama has proven to be a failure in this way: He has failed to live up to the promises conservatives made for him.

August 22, 2012 at 7:51 a.m.
delmar said...

Heh, heh, excellent cartoon Mr. Bennett. Brravo!

August 22, 2012 at 8:24 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Way to keep trying Bennett. I suppose if you hit the same subject enough you are bound to get a good one eventually.

What a bum.

August 22, 2012 at 8:46 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

While The Wart gives the democrats free advertising for their agenda of distraction the Obama admin uses tax payer dollars to pay for advertising.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/21/stimulus-funds-spent-obama-ads-olbermann-maddow/

The liberal media in this country is creating a army of voting idiots.

August 22, 2012 at 8:50 a.m.
fairmon said...

EaTn said....

The extreme right-wing attitude on education, immigration, poverty, gender and worker rights, guns, senior citizens and health care are finally coming to light by many of those effected by their insensitive and uncaring policies.

You be the judge. It seems if anyone disagrees with you that you label them right wing or some off the wall label.

Education...a local and state issue. There is no justification for the federal governments extensive involvement.

Immigration..enforce the laws as written or change them to something that is fair to those that entered legally and followed the law.

Poverty....A local and state issue. Every citizen must be able to obtain food, clothing, shelter, health care, education and job training.

Gender...there can be no discrimination based on gender. Women have a right to make their own informed decision regarding birth control, abortion and other female only issues.

Guns...require gun safety training and with no criminal history, ownership at the age of 18. If eligible for the military and being trained to kill at the age of 18 then training to defend yourself is logical. Control the supply of ammunition.

Senior citizens and health care....Increase premiums and taxes sufficient to maintain the current coverage for those eligible and for those to become eligible later. No more borrowed money to provide coverage. Make the logical actuarial eligibility adjustments. Remove the cap that protects those with higher incomes and employers from the increased taxes.

Workers rights are protected by the fair labor standards act and other laws regarding worker safety, compensation and employer obligations. Strengthen these where needed to assure fair compensation, safety and working conditions. Develop regulations that prevent management and the union from doing what they did to GM and others. Develop regulations for compensation practices for public employees that eliminates the need for public employees unions.

In addition legalize drugs, prostitution and gambling then regulate and tax these vices sufficient to enforce the regulations. The war on drugs has not been effective and making them, prostitution and gambling illegal has had the same results as prohibition of alcohol enabling criminals to become wealthy. The drug cartels have bundles of U.S. dollars strapped on pallets and stored in warehouses. The drain of wealth to them and to the middle east and others for oil is destroying the American economy.

I don't consider myself conservative or liberal and I don't like or have any use for either party since both are controlled by big money, not businesses as many imply, and a few power brokers that could give a shat less about you or me. The country is big enough to have a third party but the two have made it essentially impossible to have a third party challenge them.

August 22, 2012 at 8:50 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Joneses - what would the casualty rate in Afghanistan be had Bush focused on that task and not shifted his attention to invading Iraq?

August 22, 2012 at 9 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Egypt is reportedly moving tanks onto the Sinai in violation of a peace treaty with Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/world/middleeast/israel-asks-egypt-to-remove-tanks-from-sinai.html?_r=1&hp

Obama's peace filled spring is working out great, is it not? Everyone better focus on the war on women being manufactured by the democrats! Bennett will probably still be doing cartoons about fictitious cavemen after another shooting war breaks out in the Middle East.

August 22, 2012 at 9 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

MTJohn said... "what would the casualty rate in Afghanistan be had Bush focused on that task and not shifted his attention to invading Iraq?"

When will you people stop finding excuses for your Failed President, after he has manufactured an emergency to stay in office for a 3rd term and has completely transformed this country into a state of collapse?

August 22, 2012 at 9:06 a.m.
MTJohn said...

harp3339 said..."Therefore, a ban on abortion would increase the proliferation in the dependent segment of society. Is it wise to add to the population of those that cannot be provided work that they can do?"

So what? The folks advocating a ban on abortion are also the folks advocating reduction/elimination of social services. Pro-life means getting those fetuses to term. The fact that most are destined for the ranks of our underclass, a life in poverty, lack of health care, a reduced life expectancy, etc. etc. is irrelevant. This is the land of opportunity. Even if you don't have opportunity, if you live in poverty, it's your own fault. Drum roll.....wave the flag....and, don't forget, God bless America!

August 22, 2012 at 9:09 a.m.
MTJohn said...

BRP - when will you people stop judging this President on the basis of your own lies (and the fact that he offends your sensibilities by being black)?

August 22, 2012 at 9:12 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Rickyroo: This blatent war on women. What's the motivation behind it?

August 22, 2012 at 9:16 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

While Obama politics over his manufactured war on women, Israel considers making a strike on Iran while Obama still has some accountability to voters.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/when-israel-strikes-iran-in-october/

August 22, 2012 at 9:18 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Look at the cartoon, specifically the ape man. Now look at Tooney's mug in the corner. See the resemblence? Is this a cartoon from past experience Tooney? Hmmmmmm

August 22, 2012 at 9:20 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

War on Women, racism, contraception mandates...

When are the democrats going to realize they are being handled like dim witted puppets?

August 22, 2012 at 9:22 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

whatsnottaken said... "look at Tooney's mug in the corner"

The resemblance is striking!

August 22, 2012 at 9:24 a.m.
MTJohn said...

BigRidgePatriot said..."When are the democrats going to realize they are being handled like dim witted puppets?"

ROFLMAO!! Words of wisdom from a man who channels Frank Luntz's use of the English language. BRP - you (and Joneses and a few others who post here) have a remarkable ability to imitate Rush Limbaugh et al. However, that talent should not be confused with rational thought.

August 22, 2012 at 9:33 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MTJohn: There you go again. All about race, huh? You guys are wearing this out. Maybe, just maybe, it's about his politics.

August 22, 2012 at 9:34 a.m.
mymy said...

76 Days to Go!

August 22, 2012 at 9:43 a.m.
JustOneWoman said...

"The theory behind Rep. Todd Akin’s (R-MO) assertion earlier this week that women who are victims of “legitimate” rape would not get pregnant appears to be based on 1972 research that cites experiments done in Nazi concentration camps, a Missouri newspaper reported on Monday." ........... "Nazis reportedly tested the theory “by selecting women who were about to ovulate and sending them to the gas chambers, only to bring them back after their realistic mock-killing, to see what the effect this had on their ovulatory patterns. An extremely high percentage of these women did not ovulate,” the article said."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/21/akin-rape-theory-rooted-in-nazi-death-camp-experiments/

Very interesting, and goes right in line with what these knuckle draggers are trying to do. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, well, draw your own conclusions. The scariest part of this is that Ryan is just like Akin in his neanderthal thinking. And isn't it just a bit too much that the Koch brother's father was one of the these. The Koch brothers are the ones that own half this country and are bank-rolling the dominionists party, formally known as the Republican party.

[Fred C Koch] "He was one of the founding members of the John Birch Society.[17]"

"He claimed that the Democratic and Republican Parties were infiltrated by the Communist Party, and he supported Mussolini's suppression of communists. He wrote that "The colored man looms large in the Communist plan to take over America," and that "Welfare was a secret plot to attract rural blacks to cities, where they would foment a vicious race war." [18]"

Fear to the MAX! They will tear down our freedoms carrying a bible and a gun. And THAT is just the point.

August 22, 2012 at 9:44 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

MTjohn: What lies would they be? Name some lies about Obama you claim are spewed by republicans.

August 22, 2012 at 9:44 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

<<<<< Never thought I would miss her.

August 22, 2012 at 9:46 a.m.
JustOneWoman said...

Jack_Dennis said... MTJohn: There you go again. All about race, huh? You guys are wearing this out. Maybe, just maybe, it's about his politics.

Do some research Jack and stop being just a mouth.

It is about race. They have said it, they have shown it, and now they are living it. Open up your eyes. That is all you have to do. But, I don't think that will happen. If you see it in them, you will have to see it in yourself.

August 22, 2012 at 9:47 a.m.
rogerdodger said...

Hey cartoon boy why no mention of a Democratic Rep having sex with a teenage boy? Why no mention of gas prices and unemployment continuing to climb? I forgot you and your mindless sheep hate facts and refuse to discuss them but will resort to anything to keep them from being seen. The great thing is your foolishness may work on some idiots here but across America people are opening their eyes and realize after 4 years they are worse off than before & he has done nothing he said he would.

August 22, 2012 at 9:50 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

JustOne: That's the most ridiculous thing you've said. In a long line of ridiculous posts.

August 22, 2012 at 9:55 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

What freedoms justonecavehag? The freedom of free food for all? How about the freedom of free healthcare? You just don't get it! It's the liberal government taking your freedoms hag!! You're off your rocker hag!! YOU'RE giving all YOU'RE freedoms away to the government! All because you and your rotten liberals are too damn lazy to get off your asses and make anything out of yourselves!! You're a bunch of pussies that never grew up and still need mommy government to care for you!! Now go away before you hurt yourself hag!!!!!

August 22, 2012 at 9:57 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

And justonehag: Must I post the Robert Byrd videos again? You're as goofy as you are stupid!!

August 22, 2012 at 10 a.m.
tderng said...

This just highlights the democrats WAR ON BABIES.They want to be able to kill babies with impunity.A more apt cartoon would be Obama and Biden walking through a field of dead,maimed,babies with a smug smile on their faces and a caption saying "I love the smell of death in the morning,smells like victory!"

August 22, 2012 at 10:02 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FIBJt-c2o0

Where's your outrage hag?? Was this democratic hero a racist emptyjohn? Let's hear it!!

August 22, 2012 at 10:04 a.m.
Livn4life said...

I am so glad that many many informed people, unlike some of the chronic posters on here, know that this cartoon is a joke. Will enough people realize the blatant lying attacks going on against conservatives are just that? It is utterly telling that major campaigns are waged nationally across this country based on negativity, much of which is irrelevant, some are blatant lies. But then, who has allowed this to become American politics? Sad to say, it's we the people again. It does not seem to matter anymore that candidates get out who they are, what they stand for, what they will do. It's all about painting the nega-pic on their opponents. That might be a fair deal except...THE MEDIA which pick up all the nega-conservative issues and downplay what the lefters do such as the recent Biden blunder. I even heard persons of color saying that was okay, I assume since he is the one who said it. The politics of character assassination needs to change. But I am not holding my breateh on that.What a joke of a nation we now live in. So Drawman, keep em coming. Some of us will never be fooled by you or the onslaught of Left leaning mediaites.

August 22, 2012 at 10:11 a.m.
JustOneWoman said...

I knew there would be backlash. It is always harder to see racism and fear in yourself. And even harder to see in those you look up to. Call in noncense or whatever you wish. It is what it is and you calling it something else will not change facts.

August 22, 2012 at 10:15 a.m.
facyspacy said...

I agree with ScottyM. People are spinning their wheels with talk about abortion. Doesnt matter the view, the law isnt changing. Focus on the important political issues

August 22, 2012 at 10:19 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

JustOne: Disappointed in you.

August 22, 2012 at 10:32 a.m.
moon4kat said...

This nation was founded on the notion of freedom and justice for all. But, the GOP likes "freedom" only for what they want (guns, religion, and no taxes for anything). They don't want freedom for unions, workers, women, agnostics, gays, minorities, the elderly, or anyone with the capacity for logical thought, an education, or critical thinking skills.
The GOP's view of freedom is thoroughly UN-American.

August 22, 2012 at 10:33 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

moonkat: Nice summation. Except it's 100% bogus.

facyspacy: Of course the law won't change. But the topic remains hot for diverting attention from our failed Dear Leader.

August 22, 2012 at 10:40 a.m.
moon4kat said...

Toes, are you aware that Robert Byrd has been dead for a couple of years now?

August 22, 2012 at 10:42 a.m.
Salsa said...

Real cartoonists don't need to repeat the same subject twice in a row. Of course, Clay only draws what the DNC tells him to in their daily talking points e-mails.

August 22, 2012 at 10:51 a.m.
delmar said...

Baffles the hell out of me why in this day and age that men are trying to tell women what is best for them. Here is an interesting tongue-in-cheek article that, I'm sure, will only be understood by a few here.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/22/judith-regan-todd-akin-and-republican-men-s-world-of-unicorns-true-love-and-no-rape.html

August 22, 2012 at 10:55 a.m.
champ1 said...

I guess any ol' thing that keeps the topic off of this economy will work as a cartoon for you now a days, huh Clay?

August 22, 2012 at 11:01 a.m.
JustOneWoman said...

Jack. Like I care! LOLOLOL These posts are not for you. Silly one. They are for any of those that might believe your pungent lies. I couldn't care less what you or some of these knuckle draggers think.

August 22, 2012 at 11:01 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

JustOne: Name on pungent lie.

August 22, 2012 at 11:07 a.m.
JustOneWoman said...

champ1 said... I guess any ol' thing that keeps the topic off of this economy will work as a cartoon for you now a days, huh Clay?

I think we will see it turn more toward the economy, and that can only be good for Obama. It is quite obvious to most who is cutting off the life line to our economy. The louder they get, the better for Obama. Once you realize the Republicans have no desire to win, you will see just what they are doing. They have sold us out. The democrats have too to some degree, but if you dig, you will find it is the DINO's that are causing problems. You can even trace back some of them to their party change. It is funny that most of these are too dumb to realize we can see them. Kind of like the little toddler puts their hand over their eyes and thinks you can't see them because they can't see you. Yep, you can see the switch back and forth over the past, as the neanderthals try to sway one party, then the next.

August 22, 2012 at 11:12 a.m.
JustOneWoman said...

Remember when Republicans used to stand for individual freedoms? I do.

August 22, 2012 at 11:16 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Delmar, that's an excellent article, and I share your bafflement. However it's not so much that I'm baffled about middle-aged and old men thinking they know best and making decisions for all women (that's just Republicans doing what they do best) but the fact that so many women are apparently taking it and not speaking out any more forcefully than they are. More women need to be telling these old white farts, loud and clear, to butt out of their lives.

August 22, 2012 at 11:35 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

"Indeed, all they had in common, besides being overwhelmingly white, southern, and Democratic, was that they called themselves, or were called, Klansmen.[41]"

Seems the democratic party was responsible for the murder of more blacks than the republicans. It doesn't matter how damn long ago it was, murder is murder. The democratic party gave the world the kkk. Not the republicans.

August 22, 2012 at 11:45 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Isn't it the liberals who want to "butt" in everybody's life? You want to cradle to grave us to death by government force! Here's an idea, why don't you democrats butt out of everyone's life! Absolutely amazing! THEY'RE butting in everybody's life by trying to force us to pay for it! Take all the damn pills you want, just pay for for it your damn self! If someone doesn't believe in abortion, why the hell should they be forced to pay for them? Only a liberal would see "fairness" in that.

August 22, 2012 at 11:51 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

TOES, your comment about Democrats and the KKK... I don't know what relevance it has. Things have changed a bit since those Jim Crow days. The Democrats of which you speak were called Dixiecrats and were a short-lived extremist group of southern Democrats who felt strongly about their southern heritage and wanted to stand against what they saw as government intervention. Yes, they were bigoted and despicable. When the Dixiecrats dissolved in the groundswell of Civil Rights, most of them turned away from the Democratic party and became bigoted and despicable Republicans.

August 22, 2012 at 12:08 p.m.
BluesHarp said...

“To agree on keeping a status quo that can't be kept has nothing to do with consensus. It's decadence.” -Hilmar Kopper

"So what are you whining for? I've never understood that about Republicans. Even when they win, they manage to come off sounding like an oppressed minority." -Eric Holeman

"Power is not a means; it is an end.... Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself.... The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy - everything.... No one dares trust a wife or a child or a friend any longer. But in the future there will be no wives and no friends.... We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work upon it now. There will be no loyalty, except loyalty towards the Party. There will be no love, except the love of Big Brother. There will be no laughter, except the laugh of triumph over a defeated enemy. There will be no art, no literature, no science.... There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always - do not forget this, Winston - always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless.... If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." 

-George Orwell, 1984

August 22, 2012 at 12:11 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Here is a cartoonist that covers everything Bennett refuses to touch. Maybe the TFP should sign him up for the right side of the on-line opinion page...

http://www.conservativedailynews.com/category/political-cartoons/

August 22, 2012 at 12:25 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Your liberal spin on history is laughable at best. You libs rewrite history as you see fit.

"While the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) had paid informants in the Klan, for instance in Birmingham in the early 1960s, its relations with local law enforcement agencies and the Klan were often ambiguous. The head of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, appeared more concerned about Communist links to civil rights activists than about controlling Klan excesses against citizens"

Imagine that, even during the Kennedy administration..

"the kkk democrats were actually republicans" is a huge lie! Three democrats from Tennessee started the kkk. Lie and rewrite history all you want, you're only lying to yourself.

August 22, 2012 at 12:26 p.m.
jesse said...

Harp at 08:50 A little nugget of sanity in a mire of a Trk. load of b.s., name callin,verbosity and self aggrandizement!

Any one of what ever political persuasion that thinks either one of the political parties has your or the country's best interest at heart is livin in the twilight zone! Once the election is over and the winner is in office every thins that was said or implied during the campaign is OUT THE WINDOW!

August 22, 2012 at 12:35 p.m.
rogerdodger said...

Ok I know that you Obama lovers have a hard time with facts but look at this, Sure sounds familiar huh, http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-08-20/obama-campaign-spending-fundraising/57174798/1

August 22, 2012 at 12:36 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

<<<<<< Looking good. This is relativity.

August 22, 2012 at 12:50 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

"Michelle Obama guest editor for website featuring on-line sex advice from prostitutes"

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michelle-obama-guest-editor-website-featuring-sex-tips-including-prostitutes

Like her husband said, "she don't go all the way down". Absolutely disgusting human being.

August 22, 2012 at 1:04 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Now Obama's illegals get driver's licenses. Mark my words, next it'll be getting the right to vote. That's why he wanted them all here in the first place.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/08/22/4746634/california-poised-to-grant-drivers.html#storylink=cpy

August 22, 2012 at 1:08 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/22/cbo-feds-flirting-double-dip-recession/

Four more years people? Really? You libs need to get off the Chattanooga crack.

August 22, 2012 at 1:33 p.m.

Rickaroo, the relevance is that people like TOES02800 can pretend that Democrats today are associated with the ones of yesterday while ignoring how the ideas of the Republican conservatives have actually been warped in order to support the very same conservative Southerners that TOES02800 is using to attack Democrats.

Apparently they think we won't recall the history.

Just like they think we won't notice how empty their apologies over Akin's statement are. Notice his spin from yesterday, that it wasn't that he expressed something entirely false, just that he misspoke a little.

Now we're supposed to believe that the law won't change, then why do they keep trying to change it? Why do so many Republicans dream of the chance to overturn Roe v. Wade and demand that any judicial candidates toe the line their way on the subject?

Apparently they're just engaging in something futile, so we should ignore how it's an example of government intrusions into private matters that normally they would oppose, except when they don't care about who it happens to.

And given their opposition to sex ed from public schools, rampant support of conscience clauses and their sophistry-laden endorsement of anti-contraceptive Churches, they obviously don't want to engage in actually constructive methods of preventing abortions.

And I've not even mentioned the Snowflake baby crowd.

August 22, 2012 at 1:42 p.m.
mymy said...

What would Obama do without Harry Reid sitting on anything Republican!

Illegal immigrants could receive more than $7 billion this year in federal tax credits, according to one estimate, thanks to a loophole in the law that allows people not authorized to work to reap the government payments with no questions asked.

A report last year by the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration found the claims added up to $4.2 billion in 2010. Sessions' office calculated the $7.4 billion figure based on the IG report numbers and White House budget numbers.

The IG report last year recommended that Congress pass legislation to "clarify" whether the tax credits should actually be paid to those not authorized to work in the U.S.

Sessions co-sponsored a bill earlier this year to bar illegal immigrants from receiving the credit, but the bill was blocked from reaching the floor by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

August 22, 2012 at 1:44 p.m.
champ1 said...

JustOneWoman...What are you talking about? Do you really think that Obama wants to talk about the economy? Here is Obama's defense of the economy; " I've created 4 million jobs"...Well that's great! Except for the fact that we needed 6 million. Let me ask you liberals a question: If your child fell to the bottom of a 12 foot pool and I told everyone "Step back! I'll save him!" Would you give me credit for bringing him 8 feet up from the bottom? No! He's still drowning...You'd want me to either get him above water or get out of the way so someone else could. Well, that's were the nation is with Obama...get out of the way! He said that if we gave him a trillion dollars, he'd solve our economic problems. But he didn't and we're still suffering for it. Clay doesn't want to talk about that and neither do any of you other Obama apologist.

August 22, 2012 at 1:51 p.m.

champ1, yes, I would give somebody who dived into the pool and tried credit over the person who sat on the edge and said "Eh, let the child figure out how to swim on its own!"

Maybe you should pick better analogies.

We're suffering from the Republican's intransigence, and you don't want to talk about that, and neither do any of you other GOP apologists. You can't own up to responsibility. You can't even own up to how you actually wanted the country to suffer because if it did, you could claim Obama failed.

Good thing we already no.

August 22, 2012 at 1:57 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Champ1, the fact that Obama has had any job growth at all or has kept the country from sinking further into the abyss economically is actually quite an achievement in itself considering that the Repubs have done nothing but complain, obstruct, and fight him tooth and nail every step of they way. It's laughable how you Obama haters whine about how bad Obama's record is but you make no menttion at all of the Repubs' unrelenting obstructionism that has prevented him from making any forward progress.

August 22, 2012 at 2:08 p.m.
mymy said...

The new CBO Report: It's the economy and job dumb o crats!

WASHINGTON – The U.S. government will run a budget deficit of $1.1 trillion in fiscal 2012, or 7.3% of gross domestic product, the Congressional Budget Office estimated in a new report on Wednesday. The new deficit estimate is slightly lower than the agency's March estimate of $1.2 trillion. The nonpartisan CBO predicts that the U.S. economy will grow at a 2.1% clip in 2012, but fall by 0.5% between the fourth quarter of 2012 and the fourth quarter of 2013 if scheduled tax increases and spending cuts take effect in January. Under that "fiscal cliff," the U.S. would experience a recession, with U.S. unemployment jumping to about 9% in the second half of 2013 from its current 8.3%, CBO said.

August 22, 2012 at 2:16 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "When will you people stop finding excuses for your Failed President, after he has manufactured an emergency to stay in office for a 3rd term and has completely transformed this country into a state of collapse?"

Will there ever be an end to the unsubstantiated rumors that are created by the off-the-chart Obama bashers?

Not that you have ever established yourself as having any credibility in this forum, that sentence above just dropped you into an open grave at eyesight level with the Birthers.

August 22, 2012 at 2:21 p.m.
mymy said...

TOES: A real class act in the WH. Excuse me, I must go throw up again!

August 22, 2012 at 2:21 p.m.
miraweb said...

Women's issues seem to circle back the abortion debate pretty quickly, but there is a lot more to it, and the GOP has not been good at taking the lead.

The ACA making birth control availability a priority means healthier women, healthier children, and fewer unwanted pregnacies.

The GOP fights it. Why?

More young women are in college than young men. Financial aid is expanded by taking banks out of the loop as servicers and writing the checks directly.

The GOP fights it. Why?

Women pay more for health insurance and have a harder time getting it. There are 25% more women over the age of 65 than men. Women are hurt more when the public money allocated for their health care is lining the pockets of insurance corporations instead of paying for medical care.

The GOP fights it. Why?

Preventative screening is effective in cutting cancer deaths for women.

The GOP fights it. Why?

Nearly every stance that the GOP is taking right now is making the lives of women harder.

Women are not dumb.

The National Review is reporting that pro-choice Republican's gender gap numbers are just as bad as their pro-life colleagues.

It ain't abortion, fellas. It's a much larger problem.

Source: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/314640/abortion-and-gender-gap-numbers-ramesh-ponnuru

August 22, 2012 at 2:28 p.m.
chatt_man said...

TOES - Actually that's a good link to Michelle's new position (no pun intended).

Maybe, she'll learn something new to take back home, and her husband will quit practicing on us.

August 22, 2012 at 2:30 p.m.
miraweb said...

Yawn.

Yet another neanderthal with a keyboard.

August 22, 2012 at 2:38 p.m.
alprova said...

A few of you folks must have been reincarnated after having lived in the Victorian age. The lack of a healthy sex life tends to mess with people's minds.

This may explain why it is that some of you are totally on board with any movement to micro-manage every woman's reproductive organs.

August 22, 2012 at 2:40 p.m.
conservative said...

mymy....

I like the way you did that dumb o crats. May I borrow that? I could go with dumb old crats also.

August 22, 2012 at 2:49 p.m.
miraweb said...

The new NBS/WSJ poll is out. A few highlights:

Dealing with issues of concern to women:

Obama 52 Romney 24

Caring about average people

Obama 52 Romney 30

Dealing with issues of concern to seniors

Obama 46 Romney 34

Being consistent and standing up for his beliefs

Obama 43 Romney 37

Being honest and straightforward

Obama 41 Romney 30

Being easygoing and likable

Obama 58 Romney 23

Other issues:

Medicare as a voucher program:

Good idea 15% Bad idea 30% No opinion 51%

The had a final question on Romney's Medicare saying that Mitt Romney says his proposal will "strengthen Medicare and reduce costs" and Obama says it is a "voucher system giving seniors a set amount of money" that asked which version was correct.

Romney 34 Obama 50

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443713704577603600866054994.html

August 22, 2012 at 3:03 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Miraweb: You just joking around, right?

August 22, 2012 at 3:07 p.m.
JustOneWoman said...

TOES02800 said... "Michelle Obama guest editor for website featuring on-line sex advice from prostitutes"

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michelle-obama-guest-editor-website-featuring-sex-tips-including-prostitutes

Like her husband said, "she don't go all the way down". Absolutely disgusting human being.

Now that is FUNNY! Ivillage is a place where anyone can go to learn things. That is like saying you can find beer in a grocery store, so don't buy groceries. And the cnsnews is absolutely right wing garbage. I could have debunked just about everything on the site. LOL You could too if you do some research. Surely you are not advocating that we control who can do what online. Quite authoritarian don't you think?

August 22, 2012 at 3:07 p.m.
miraweb said...

Of course not, Jack. We all know wimmin don't have a sense of humor. ;)8

August 22, 2012 at 3:11 p.m.
JustOneWoman said...

mymy said... The new CBO Report: It's the economy and job dumb o crats!

How could we forget the JOBS, JOBS, JOBS mantra that was spouted by this last batch of tea baggers to get into office. And what did they do once they got there? Over 918 pieces of legislation aimed at controlling women's bodies. Not one real jobs bill. People see these fools for what they are now. Bring on the economy battle. We have plenty of evidence to show who has been turning the gas off. The party of "no", that actually said they would do anything, even bring down our country, to make Obama a one term president. It backfired. He will win by a bigger margin this time. And those calling for civil war are going to be surprised at how many they have against them. I don't think it will last very long, although it might depend upon where you are in the country.

August 22, 2012 at 3:16 p.m.
KnottaHero said...

Pro-Lifers see two people (not one), and abortion kills one of those people. If exercising your rights results in another's murder, then you must question the free exercise of your "rights". If you define abortion as murder, you must decide if there are situations which should allow the murder of an innocent child. Tough questions and tougher answers. None of this discussion, however, should draw our attention from the economy and the lack of jobs.

JustOneWoman is a filthy and offensive woman. The use of such a disgusting term as "Teab**er" led me to quit reading her comment. She is gutter trash.

August 22, 2012 at 3:49 p.m.
miraweb said...

I do hope that Rep. Kevin "skinny-dip" Yoder sent Akin a dozen roses this morning. Akin did him a huge favor by getting him off the front page.

It is an ill wind . . .

August 22, 2012 at 3:54 p.m.
JustOneWoman said...

KnottaHero said... Pro-Lifers see two people (not one), and abortion kills one of those people. If exercising your rights results in another's murder, then you must question the free exercise of your "rights". If you define abortion as murder, you must decide if there are situations which should allow the murder of an innocent child. Tough questions and tougher answers. None of this discussion, however, should draw our attention from the economy and the lack of jobs.

JustOneWoman is a filthy and offensive woman. The use of such a disgusting term as "Teab**er" led me to quit reading her comment. She is gutter trash.

Just because you don't like something, well just tuff! Pick a name and then suffer the consequences. I didn't pick the name, I just use it.

Tell me, Knott a hero, exactly what does the bible say about when life starts? I will give you a hint, it is on the first page. A penis is not an erection, but it can be. A fetus is not a child, but it can be. There is a reason women, not men, have the babies. Be offended all you want. You thinking you have the right to control anything about a woman's body offends me.

Pro-lifers only care about the fetus. They care nothing about the child after it is born. I will align myself against you all day long.

August 22, 2012 at 4:02 p.m.
limric said...

Right wing know it all’s:

Do your friends goof on you for your imbecilic lack of knowledge about women’s issues? Have you often wished you could discuss things like uteruses but you aren't really sure you know what that word means? Well, I have help—a quiz will help hone your lady-learning skills with expert knowledge from your like minded science deniers. Remember to use a pencil - not a stick, and no looking at Alprova’s paper.

1) What is rape?

a. A “forcible” assault. Does not apply to minors, incest victims or date-rape victims.

b. A figment of hysterical women’s imagination.

c. “The violation of a chaste woman, against her will, by some party not her spouse.”

d. Something that happens to drunk sluts.


2) What do we know about pregnancy that occurs after a rape?

a. It’s a God-given gift. Enjoy!

b. No such thing. The vagina employs bio-bouncers that will “shut that whole thing down.”

c. Impossible, because “the juices don’t flow.”

d. Trick question. There’s no such thing as rape. Duh.


3) How does emergency contraception work?

a. Melts snowflake babies.

b. Turns women into wanton trollops. (see Democrats)

c. As an abortifacient. (Latin: will cause a miscarriage)

d. The cause of teen sex cults.


4) How does the birth control pill work?

a. You take one every time you have sex. The more pills you take, the sluttier you are.

b. It’s murder. The bible tells me so.

c. Enacts a protective shield around the “down there” area that only holy water and/or Brad Pitt can penetrate.

d. You put it between your knees when you run out of aspirin.


5) What words are appropriate to use when describing a woman’s thing “down there”?

a. Hoo-hah. (pronounced just like it reads)

b. “V.” ( A trans-v or see ‘Natalie Portman’)

c. The ‘V’ word that shall not be spoken. Shh.

d. “Mine.”

For correct answers, stop talking to, sleeping with or voting for Republicans. Thank you Jessica. :-)

August 22, 2012 at 4:06 p.m.
JustOneWoman said...

Hey knott, you pick on me when this kind of thing is here daily.....Nothing but lies meant to downgrade women, but call a group by their name and whoa!....... Oh we see how you are!

TOES02800 said... "Michelle Obama guest editor for website featuring on-line sex advice from prostitutes"

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michelle-obama-guest-editor-website-featuring-sex-tips-including-prostitutes

Like her husband said, "she don't go all the way down". Absolutely disgusting human being.

August 22, 2012 at 4:08 p.m.
champ1 said...

Happywithnewbulbs and Rickaroo...wow where do I start? From 2008-2010 their weren't enough republicans to stop ANYTHING Obama wanted to do. That's 50% of his presidency! He had the house and the senate to do his bidding...The American people voted as many Democrats out of office in 2010 as possible to put a stop to his incompetence. They (The Republicans in congress) are doing what they were put in office to do. Secondly, no Republicans proposed that we do nothing about the financial collapse...what they proposed was a PRO-BUSINESS approach to the disaster, rather than a pro-government approach to the crisis. I spent quite a bit of time blogging in 2009 about why everything he was proposing wouldn't work. There was no need to root against America to know this...the stimulus package and healthcare approach never addressed the problem. So, let me be clear, the problem is that we are a growth society. We have kids every day that grow up to need jobs. If you don't produce enough jobs to keep up with the growth of our nation, the nation as a whole falls behind. The Stimulus approach NEVER CREATED JOBS. Oh it may have given a few people a job to do, but because the projects were all based on one time investments, the effect went away as soon as the money did. If I build a building for commercial development with government money that no on needs I can give you a job sweeping up debris around the project. But guess what? As soon as the building is completed your job goes away. And because the building was put up with the HOPE that someone might buy it, and not the NEED, you end up with a giant waste of funds, and a giant empty structure to boot. The stimulus package was FULL of these type projects, and as a result, it did not have the desired affect. The pro-governent Federal model doesn't work because the federal government feels no need to show fiduciary responsibility to us (the taxpayers) and never will. That's why you've got to limit what they're allowed to have. But hey they tried right? One Trillion dollars later, they tried...anyone in any other business in life that presided over such a collosal faluire would be fired on the spot. What we needed was to incentivize businessess to create jobs, no matter what... a tax cutting pro-business model would have accomplished this. Contray to popular belief, businesses only hoard money when they are uncertain about how to spend it (i.e. what's happening now), but the advantage of supporting a pro-busniness recovery model lies around the idea that they have their own skin in the game when an investment does'nt work out. So they have to be careful with the funds. The federal government? When they run out of money they print and tax they're way out of their mistakes. And because we feel no immediate pain, we keep letting it slid. But even that has it's limits. Those are the facts, but go ahead, ignore them. It's what you liberals are best at anyway.

August 22, 2012 at 4:11 p.m.

champ1, except that wasn't the case, as there were plenty of conservative Democrats willing to carry water for the Republican agenda. Notice how the PPACA doesn't have single-payer.

But actually, did you know that most of the Obama stimulus was TAX CUTS? That's right, just what Republicans say they want. Why is that never mentioned? Maybe you should have spent your time looking things up rather than just blogging. That's right, they were trying to incentivize businesses to create jobs in just the way Republicans demand, and you say it failed. So why didn't it work? Maybe contrary to your popular belief, your idea doesn't work. OTOH, the actual spending? Well, there's a nice road they paved near me, and I sure appreciate it. Thanks, ARRA. I actually DID need it repaved, it was rough and a bother, now it's smooth and a pleasure to drive on. Yeah, why do you never think about that?

And yes, Republicans have spent a lot of time arguing for the remedies to the financial disaster to benefit business, to give them a free path, and not hold them accountable for anything, even their outright fraud. They just blame it on imaginary concerns like the CRA even though foreclosures in the sectors covered by that law were lower than in the sectors not regulated by it. And the original change to the laws that allowed the disaster were sponsored by Republicans, by the name of Gramm, Bliley and Leach. But do you mention that? No.

Sorry dude, the facts you have are not the real ones, but fabrications. That's what conservatives are good at. Like how Akin made up a complete and utter story about women's bodies somehow preventing pregnancy after a rape.

Of course now he's just saying the problem was the use of the word legitimate, rather than recognizing the REAL fault was making up a story.

BTW, the Federal Government is held so accountable they're spending dimes to cover their nickles. But you would give businesses free reign to do whatever they want, and not even close any actual loopholes or exploitation. Notice how the Republican mantra is to remove restrictive regulations. Oh sure, sometimes you come up with some idea you can say is bad, but it's usually something green, which means you can condemn environmental concerns, not because you're actually concerned about preventing regulatory abuse.

Or can you even say anything bad about any single Republican idea?

Nope, just the blind condemnation of liberals as you put yourself on a pedestal, elevated above those you consider lesser.

August 22, 2012 at 4:26 p.m.
miraweb said...

I agree, the stimulus was a 10 foot rope in a 20 foot hole.

Some of the brighter folks even remember that it was Bush who passed the first package, not Obama. The really smart ones recall that Congress passes legislation and the president signs or vetoes it.

Everyone who has looked back at the crisis has said that the size of the problem was bigger than all of the solutions that were being proposed; the housing and mortgage market issues should have been hit hard, early, and fast; and to prevent another crisis, financial regulations must be permanently changed.

The GOP, representing the banks, have stopped every realistic mortgage relief strategy from bankruptcy judge resets to mandatory resets to eminent domain.

The GOP, representing the Wall Street, have blocked every substantial rule capable of stopping another crisis.

Magic "business" fairy dust is an interesting idea but everyone who proposes it only seems to come up with a tax cut and dropping a couple of regulations.

A real business approach considers incentives, measures, and outcomes. Unfortunately, we only see that happen in bad ways.

For example, insurance companies have one goal: to make money. Insurance companies have two methods: take more money in, pay less money out.

When you place an insurer between the U.S. Treasury and Medicare recipients you get the worst of both worlds:

The taxpayers pay more. The recipients get fewer services.

If those two things don't happen, the insurer doesn't make money. They have no other incentive to stay in the game.

It is a business-based solution, but it only benefits the insurer. There is no business incentive that helps the tax-payer or the elderly.

I think business has a lot to contribute to the conversation. But a real solution has to get the incentives right.

August 22, 2012 at 4:33 p.m.
champ1 said...

Actually HappyWithNewBulbs the problem with Obama's "tax cuts" were that they were all one time phenomena, and had no net effect on producers of jobs. Again, the problem is we need jobs. Yes Bush did do a stimulus...yes it had NO net positive effect on the economy (just like your new road). Again the problem is we need jobs. So, Mr. Researcher, I'd like to know how you would create jobs? I'll wait to give my answer...I've actually both owned and run businesses before. But you tell me, how would you do it? And, oh yeah, Single Payer didn't pass because it would bankrupt our healthcare industry. In other words, its a stupid idea.

August 22, 2012 at 4:54 p.m.
mymy said...

Harry Reid likes to sit on everything for Obama that the Republicans send to the Senate on jobs: Here is a list of 32! Where does the blame lay for our economic/jobs problems? Obama and Harry have to go!

House Republicans are committed to taking every possible step to spur job creation and get our economy back on track so that Americans can do what they do best: create, innovate and lead.

These 32 job creating measures have been passed by the House and are awaiting action in the Democrat-controlled Senate. Contact your Senator here.

http://www.gop.gov/indepth/jobs/tracker

August 22, 2012 at 5:12 p.m.

champ1, except you didn't mention that at all in your original post, so now you're just trying to cover for your oversight. You spent all of your effort condemning your strawman building that nobody ever uses, and somehow ignoring the realities. Like how most of the stimulus you hate was tax cuts (which you now say don't work), and actually used items, like the road which I utilize all the time. See I use that road. So I know your claim is a misrepresentation.

Furthermore, I don't care what effect the road had on the overall economy, I just consider it a GOOD thing that it was paved. So why are you asking me to provide something I don't want? I want the roads paved. I consider that a good thing. You implied all that spending was useless. That was false. Why can't you admit that I use that road?

If you have other goals, you defend them, don't ask me.. And since ACTUAL taxes are low right now, yet nobody's spending anything, and since lowering tax rates just leads to greater deficits (which after 8 years of Bush, Republicans are finally getting around to opposing), I'm going to have to decline to endorse that idea either.

And no, you're wrong again. Single-payer didn't pass because it would take the massive amounts of money being siphoned away as health insurance company profits and would indeed lower spending, just like most other countries on earth.

In other words, it was a great idea UNLESS you make money from health insurance being a money pit.

It's funny, you actually think I want the health insurance industry we have. I actually want to improve our healthcare services. Single-payer would have done that.

But instead...no, we just get the conservatives idea from the Heritage foundation, which the Republicans now oppose, but for entirely the wrong reasons.

Much like they duplicitously claim that Obama took money away form Medicare, when in reality, he was just cutting waste. Republicans are for that, right? They did endorse the idea in their own plans. But somehow they pretend it's wrong for Obama to do.

Sorry, but that kind of dishonesty is obvious.

Thanks again.

August 22, 2012 at 5:24 p.m.
miraweb said...

Very nice. It's a compilation of the imaginary legislation that the House passed in its free time last year instead of doing any real work.

I love HR 2087 on that list:

"To remove restrictions from a parcel of land situated in the Altantic District, Accomack County, Virginia" (the one to the right of the Ryan budget).

I am sure millions of jobs will suddenly appear when that legislation passes.

August 22, 2012 at 5:25 p.m.
champ1 said...

Yeah, that's right. You don't care. I asked that way because I just wanted to hear you say it. You don't know how to create a job and you don't care and guess what? You support a guy who looks at the world just like you. So stop pretending that you care. Stop pretending that this economy is about anything other than the fact that this nation was fooled into electing the worst possible candidate to solve our problems that they possibly could have. Stop blaming the depths of the crisis, and the republicans, and the fact that you were born on a rainy day. You don't care. And that's why you and your president need to get out of the way.

August 22, 2012 at 5:35 p.m.
miraweb said...

Actually, I agree, CH. I also remember that the financial panic happened before the 2008 election not after.

Stop pretending that this economy is about anything other than the fact that this nation was fooled into electing the worst possible candidate to solve our problems that they possibly could have.

Romney has marching orders to turn all conversations to the economy because he is polling abysmally on every other measure. Unfortunately, housing keeps improving, and businesses have started to hire again. Such a tragedy (for Romney, anyway).

If it weren't for Rafalca, Ryan, and Akin - and the fallout from that little overseas trip, we might be talking about JOBS JOBS JOBS. The man has a gift for getting off message.

August 22, 2012 at 5:42 p.m.
alprova said...

champ1 wrote: "You don't know how to create a job and you don't care and guess what? You support a guy who looks at the world just like you."

Are you portraying yourself as someone who does know how to create a job? How many jobs have you created? Why aren't you up there on a stage running for President?

"So stop pretending that you care."

Right back at ya'

"Stop pretending that this economy is about anything other than the fact that this nation was fooled into electing the worst possible candidate to solve our problems that they possibly could have."

Why don't you stop pretending that a President...any President, can wave a magic wand and create private sector jobs...period?

"Stop blaming the depths of the crisis, and the republicans, and the fact that you were born on a rainy day. You don't care. And that's why you and your president need to get out of the way."

Hold your breath on that one. The people who care about this country are not going to allow a return to the same kind of crap that has this country in a mess.

It all traces back to the Republican sponsored and majority passed legislation that overtured the Glass-Steagall Act. It took thirty long years to recover from the last time that our stock markets were manipulated for the sake of a few insiders, and it will take more than four years to recover from what Gramm-Leach-Blilely did to the working middle class too.

You can stuff your Republican cheerleading arrogance, as well as your ignorant indignation, where the Sun doesn't shine, Sir.

August 22, 2012 at 6:24 p.m.

champ1, sorry but I think you need stop pretending that you care. Especially about the truth. Heck, I've heard enough Republicans scream in concert that government doesn't create jobs that it would seem your idea is based on a false premise anyway, if you agree with them. If you don't, then please tell us what the government should do. If you do, then why are you asking silly questions you don't believe in?

Me? I don't care about creating jobs as an initial premise, I care about the government fulfilling the needs of the public. That includes paving the roads.

Given that the economy went bad BEFORE Obama, I'm not sure why you don't want Republicans to be responsible, except your desperate pleas to avoid being accountable and admitting that your methods just don't work.

OTOH, at least my way we get nice smooth roads to drive on.

Ain't that a good thing?

But actually, I forgot to mention, do you know the place most jobs have been lost due to events since Obama took office? The government.

How does that square with you?

miraweb, Romney certainly spins a story, but that's not necessarily evidence that he's actually aware of anything. I will grant he knows how to make himself money. That doesn't mean he knows how to serve the country.

Unless he's planning on selling off California.

Notice how he won't share his tax returns.

August 22, 2012 at 6:30 p.m.
mymy said...

Labor Department spent $500G in stimulus on green-job ad blitz on Olbermann, Maddow

Smells like payback for support!

It's unclear how many people might have gotten involved in the green job training program because of the ads. But in terms of direct economic impact, the official online entry on the contract listed zero jobs created as a result of the payment.

"On the surface, this doesn't pass the basic sniff test," Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, who sits on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, told FoxNews.com

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/22/labor-department-spent-500g-in-stimulus-funds-on-ads-during-olbermann-maddow/#ixzz24JjPg7vC

August 22, 2012 at 6:41 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Taras Bulbous: Seems to me that champ1 toasted your azz.

August 22, 2012 at 6:58 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al wrote "It all traces back to the Republican sponsored and majority passed legislation that overtured the Glass-Steagall Act."

Which democrats also voted for and was signed by Clinton.

Al, it wasn't just the republicans, both sides are to blame. if you really want to know the truth read this article.

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/01/04/bloomberg-hides-government-cau

August 22, 2012 at 7 p.m.

Jack_Dennis: Your assessment is a clear indicator of the exact opposite. As usual.

rick1: Yep, Democrats compromised with Republicans. But it was still a Republican idea.

Sorry, but the names are there for a reason. But while I'm saddened that Democrats did let it happen, at least 57 of them were smart enough to smell a rat.

August 22, 2012 at 7:08 p.m.
potcat said...

miraweb said, housing is improving, businesses have started to hire again.

Really, housing has not improved and as a matter of fact its headed right back in the dumpster and worst because the big banks are still gambling because our goverment hasn't changed a thing that caused the criminals "Bankers" gambling with every investment from housing to towns and citys money and pensions. letting the criminals "Wall Street" bankers play with the peoples money and the gambling dens are full speed ahead and this time when it goes bust we'll all pay a price that this country has never felt or seen. We are headed for a cliff and the Depression will feel like a cake walk, more people and a whole different mentality of populance, it won't be pretty or safe.

As for jobs, wages are stagnat and unemployment is off the charts. If you have a job, food prices have risen at a rate that a regular working person can't afford to feed their families. Electricy, water and having a car and insurance to get to work, house payments,rent and health insurance adds up to more than a family of two people working can afford. Gas................ if you think things are getting better take off those blinders!!!

Obama or Romney are Not going to stop the train wreck America is headed toward. I hope Romney wins and the pubs have all the power. It will show the dumbtards they have no solution....except to make it worse for the poor working person, who are the ones who will vote for him...blees there hearts, ignorant is bliss..Obama will do no better because he had his chance and blew it.

I believe people in the know are trying so hard to keep the lid on the desperate despicable condition our politicans have let this country... through greed bring us the regular working person country into depression. It will blow and we will know and then when they can't keep it hidden any longer none of this chatter will matter.

August 22, 2012 at 7:08 p.m.
rick1 said...

As if the government did not learn from the first time around that the Community Reinvestment Act was a disaster The Obama Administration wants to do it again.

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/07/27/and-you-thought-the-housing-cr

August 22, 2012 at 7:10 p.m.
dude_abides said...

You conservatives had better call this a lie, as you'll never be able to mitigate the gaping hole in your logic on the rights of women to control their own bodies. You're all Akin to Todd.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/22/opinion/prewitt-rapist-visitation-rights/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

August 22, 2012 at 7:14 p.m.

Yep, keep lying about the CRA, when the foreclosures in that sector were lower than in the banks and other financial institutions who weren't touched by it.

C'mon rick1, your scapegoasts attempts are obvious.

potcat:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/54742821-79/sales-homes-housing-percent.html.csp

dude_abides: How dare you try to bring things back on topic! They're busy stirring up a hornet's nest of deceptions about the economy!

August 22, 2012 at 7:17 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1, I'm sure you are aware that Gramm-Leach-Blilely was passed with a veto proof majority in both House of Congress, and yes, some Democrats voted for it too. Clinton had no choice but to sign it, and has repeatedly been quoted saying that he had reservations at the time.

The Republicans wooed Democratic votes their way on Gramm-Leach-Blilely after caving in to demands that CRA be amended to allow more minorities to have a chance at home ownership, something that many on the right like to point to as the cause of the housing bubble, which is patently false.

Sub-prime loans had a lower default rate than traditional loans and loans that were written by mortgage brokers, which were submitted to banks lacking credible qualifying documentation.

Sub-prime defaults were 6% of 20% of the entire mortgage market, at their maximum rate when everything tanked. That's about a third of the rate of defaults throughout the entire credit card industry.

There is no way at all that sub-prime loans collapsed the housing market.

If that were not bad enough, investors or "flippers," who for a time did well in an inflated housing market, were buying and reselling real estate. When the bottom fell out, these people with good credit ratings walked away in droves from mortgages that they held on multiple pieces of property because the were suddenly worth far less than what they had invested in them.

All three men responsible for this mess were voted out of office their next runs for reelection, long before what they are responsible for creating, came to pass.

They, along with their investment banking cohorts, deserve to be strung up with ropes and hung to death.

August 22, 2012 at 7:31 p.m.
potcat said...

Keep on believing mariweb, i live in the real world and every other day its a different statistic, its up .. its down..its all smoke and mirrors.

August 22, 2012 at 7:51 p.m.
tipper said...

It has always been bizarre that male politicians seem to have such a deep psychological need to tell women how to control their bodies and sexual organs. As a result, most of them develop a terminal case of penistrampidis. Perhaps they should stick to something they really know something about--Viagra.

August 22, 2012 at 8 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Sorry, happy. I'm just visualizing joneses and a couple of others sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner with their daughter's rapist because lil' Jethro wants mama and deddy to eat together. lol

August 22, 2012 at 8:26 p.m.
alprova said...

Can you imagine what chance that one of joneses and company's children would be allowed to swallow their next bite as a living person, were they to suddenly announce at that Thanksgiving meal that they were gay or planning to vote for Obama?

August 22, 2012 at 8:36 p.m.
degage said...

Dude, you are a one sick AH.

August 22, 2012 at 8:40 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al, why won't you admit that it was both the republicans and democrats were responsable for the housing crisis? You always say that you will call people out when you feel they are not telling the truth yet you refuse to except the facts, which is being dishonest. Did you read the link I provided in my last post? It included the following quote from Cliton in June 1995: "Our homeownership strategy will not cost the taxpayers one extra cent. It will not require legislation." In the end, of course, Clinton's plan cost taxpayers an almost unbelievable amount of money. I never here you mention this.

At the end of tis post is another link which provides more facts that both parties are to blame. I know you liberals will never admit that Clinton or the democrats did anything wrong with regard to the housing crisis but the facts say other wise.

Al, you can accept the facts or you can go on lying like you have been about your version of the cause of the hosuing crisis. If you are the Cursader for the truth like you say you are then start by being honest with yourself and the real cause of the hosuing crisis.

http://spectator.org/archives/2009/02/06/the-true-origins-of-this-finan/

August 22, 2012 at 8:46 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

degage is right, Dude_. 101% correct. bwahahahaha

August 22, 2012 at 8:52 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Ha! joneses blessing: Lord please bless this pathetic, glorified chicken and these stupid moronic side dishes. Please forgive us for serving liberal portions of this filthy disgusting dressing. His blessing would last an hour and repeat it self every 5 minutes.

August 22, 2012 at 9:07 p.m.
dude_abides said...

degage said... Dude, you are a one sick AH.

Wanna try that again in English, Cletus?

August 22, 2012 at 9:09 p.m.
dude_abides said...

JacKKK_... I see your brethren are trying to resurrect the Nathan Bedford Forrest statue in Selma. Does it bother you that future generations will place MLK above every president since the Second World War in discussions involving eminence and statesmanship? Reagan's impact will be rated somewhere between Mark Spitz and Michael Phelps. LOL!

House unAmerican Activities Committee = Redtime For Ronzo. lol

August 22, 2012 at 9:25 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: You, pal, are the hater.

August 22, 2012 at 9:51 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

<<<<Hate personified.

August 22, 2012 at 9:53 p.m.

rick1, there's no housing crisis.

The crisis was entirely the manufacturing of financial service firms, who deliberately and willfully played with fire, then expected the rest of us to bail them out.

Not that you'll ever admit that, because that would mean you'd have to stop lying about it and recognize Republican Responsibility.

What cost taxpayers was bailing out a bunch of Wall Street bankers.

August 22, 2012 at 10:24 p.m.
champ1 said...

alprova! I never thought I'd find a pro-obama blogger that made you look smart:) until happywithbulbs but at least you addressed my statements...so how do you create jobs? I'm glad you asked. From past business experience I can tell you that one thing is absolutely true about hiring and job creation. If you understand this, everything else makes sense: HIRING NEW PERSONNEL IS ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY THE VERY LAST THING ANY BUSINESS DOES. YOU HAVE TO OVERWHELM THEM WITH DEMAND BEFORE THEY'LL EVEN CONSIDER IT. They will improve efficiencies, update equipment, bring on temporary workers, ANYTHING ELSE, to avoid bringing on a full time employee. One time stimuluses don't work because they just aren't investible enough. Imagine you own the deli across the street from the new building I used in my analogy earlier. That project may take around a year to complete. It will bring some dollars in your door, but what incentive do you have to open up a new location? None. You'll bring on enough help to handle the one year rush it creates, but afterwards, you lay those people off and go back to business as usual until something else forces you out of that position. Business owners have no other way to pay their bills beyond their business. Hiring is not charity. A lower tax rate, however, frees up billions and billions of dollars around the nation that were otherwise budgeted for payment to the government. It's those billions, combined with a comfortable business "environment" that causes the nationwide "overwhelming" effect that leads to job growth. Will every business use the cut to create jobs? No, but many will, and it's those real dollars that mean the difference between economic growth and our current economic state of stagnation that we're currently suffering under. I really can't answer every statement that you guys made to me because, well frankly, I've got a hot wife to hang out with. But I will end it with this: happywithbulbs I don't look down on everybody...just you.

August 22, 2012 at 10:32 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Al, why won't you admit that it was both the republicans and democrats were responsable for the housing crisis?"

They are, but the Democrats were not responsible to any degree that an antiquated article dug up from the American Spectator suggests.

Enough Democrats voted for Gramm-Leach-Blilely to put it over the top and to make it veto proof.

But to suggest, under any criteria, that minority borrowers who had a sliver of defaults to their names, compared to that of lily white borrowers, who for the most part, walked away from loans that they took out before housing prices took a nosedive, is pure and unadulterated garbage.

"You always say that you will call people out when you feel they are not telling the truth yet you refuse to except the facts, which is being dishonest. Did you read the link I provided in my last post? It included the following quote from Cliton in June 1995: "Our homeownership strategy will not cost the taxpayers one extra cent. It will not require legislation." In the end, of course, Clinton's plan cost taxpayers an almost unbelievable amount of money. I never here you mention this."

Because the author of that article offered his interpretation of what Bill Clinton was referring to. Any attempt to link the CRA to Fannie and Freddie is pure crap.

Fannie and Freddie, since 1970, were instituted to purchase legitimate mortgages from banks to free up money by banks to be able to loan out more money and reap a portion of the interest instantaneously.

That article also falsely suggests that the majority of loans that were defaulted upon were sub-prime in nature. That is categorically false.

Gramm-Leach-Blilely allowed banks, investment houses, and insurance companies to merge and to do business with each other, expressly prohibited and instituted in 1933, with passage of Glass-Steagall.

Thus, a repeat of exactly what crashed our markets in 1929, became history once again.

"Al, you can accept the facts or you can go on lying like you have been about your version of the cause of the hosuing crisis."

If you are going to call me a liar, you're going to have to step up to the plate with more than an opinionated article found on the American Spectator.

August 22, 2012 at 11 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jesus Christ, Jack_Boot, you're obsessed! Are you stalking me with your avatar thievery? LOL! How can you stoop to that? LMAO! I've never seen anybody get that silly. Do you wear a football helmet when you watch your team on TV? You lovable buffoon, you remind me of the skipper on Gilligan's Island.

August 22, 2012 at 11:03 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Must see! Chattanooga gets mentioned by the Confederate officer! JacKKK_Dennis enters at 3:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy9qJGP8DTo

August 22, 2012 at 11:16 p.m.
alprova said...

champ1 wrote: "HIRING NEW PERSONNEL IS ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY THE VERY LAST THING ANY BUSINESS DOES. YOU HAVE TO OVERWHELM THEM WITH DEMAND BEFORE THEY'LL EVEN CONSIDER IT. They will improve efficiencies, update equipment, bring on temporary workers, ANYTHING ELSE, to avoid bringing on a full time employee."

On the other hand, a smart business man is always prepared to meet an increase in demand by having on hand enough people to meet demand. One that waits until the demand for their product or services "overwhelms" the business, loses every time.

Think about your most recent trip to a grocery store. Were you able to be checked out in a reasonable amount of time, given the number of people waiting in line, or were you forced to wait because there were only a select few cashiers on duty?

A grocery store that routinely cuts corners at the expense of making their customers wait in line consistently loses my business. I have walked out and left a buggy full of groceries for having to wait too long in line. I know that I am not the only person who has done the same.

"One time stimuluses don't work because they just aren't investible enough. Imagine you own the deli across the street from the new building I used in my analogy earlier. That project may take around a year to complete. It will bring some dollars in your door, but what incentive do you have to open up a new location? None."

None? What if you get wind of another building being built by the same construction company in another part of town, when they finish the one they are building now?

The stimulus you are referring to was targeted mainly for infrastructure improvements. Yes, it was temporary, but it most definitely provided jobs for several months to the construction trade, who by default, have jobs that are always temporary in nature.

"A lower tax rate, however, frees up billions and billions of dollars around the nation that were otherwise budgeted for payment to the government."

I'm sorry, but no business pays taxes to the Government. They incorporate them into the prices charged for their goods or services.

Conversely, there is not an iota of evidence to support any assertion that lower taxes results in more jobs being offered by the private sector. American businesses have enjoyed tax cuts and credits for the last decade, and the rate of job creation has been very stagnant every year since.

When businesses and people were taxed at their highest levels in history, jobs were plentiful, they paid well, and everyone lived rather comfortably.

(To be cont,)

August 22, 2012 at 11:45 p.m.
alprova said...

(cont.)

"It's those billions, combined with a comfortable business "environment" that causes the nationwide "overwhelming" effect that leads to job growth."

So...then where are those jobs that should have magically appeared for the past ten years?

"Will every business use the cut to create jobs? No, but many will, and it's those real dollars that mean the difference between economic growth and our current economic state of stagnation that we're currently suffering under."

It would seem to me, that given the job growth numbers over the past decade, that most of those who could have created jobs, failed to do so.

Do you know what your theory is lacking? Money. Wages have gone down for those who fall into the middle class over the past thirty years. Good jobs have been moved off-shore. We have gone from a nation of people who were mostly employed by manufacturers, to employment dominated by fields of service.

The movement to eliminate unions, which is understandable given their propensity of unions to strangle the throats of their employers, has gone a long way in reducing the number of high paying jobs in the private sector.

And then you have bozo's like Mitt Romney, who have made vast fortunes in buying fledgling businesses, borrowing cash until they bankrupt the company, placing it out of the reach of bankruptcy courts, and then close the doors.

People who are making less money, for some inexplicable reason, seem to have less disposable income to spend for all but the necessities of life. So, car dealers sell less cars. Houses for sale don't sell. Things that people would love to buy remain on store shelves.

"I really can't answer every statement that you guys made to me because, well frankly, I've got a hot wife to hang out with."

Sure you do. Make sure you don't have any sharp objects in your pockets when you sidle up for a kiss or she will fly out the window.

August 22, 2012 at 11:46 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Dude_: Never met a Klansman. Have you?

August 22, 2012 at 11:53 p.m.
fairmon said...

Someone posted....

But actually, I forgot to mention, do you know the place most jobs have been lost due to events since Obama took office? The government. How does that square with you?

They failed to add the reductions are at the local and state levels due to budget issues. I don't think there has been a reduction at the federal level unless the military is included. Check out the additions that will result from Obamacare. The federal process, with a few exceptions, is to make a political appointment at the managing positions with or without management skills then allow them to hire friends and family or any applicant with a pedigree for life. Stay out of the news and the job is secure. Turf protection is rampant and grow our department is the key objective.

August 23, 2012 at 5:27 a.m.

Can't even refer to people by name harp3339? That's a bit rude. Not like you couldn't scroll up to check.

Of course you don't mention that the jobs lost in those governments were often covered by federal monies, as the exact employer doesn't mean as much as who's paying for it. Yes, Obama's not given the states that much coverage for their budget woes, though they did try, like in Texas. There's a reason why actual spending under Obama hasn't grown as much as it could have.

But there's been no huge net increase in Federal Jobs, no. Even the Census was only a temporary bump. But I do hope you're not repeating Michelle Bachmann's claim about tens of thousands of IRS auditors needing to be hired. That was roundly debunked some time ago. And actually, you're wrong, the place where the most hiring happened? Defense. Coincidentally enough that's where Mitt Romney wants to increase spending. Huh. Maybe he intended to do it without hiring people!

But actually, the reason why the federal process discourages turnover is to PREVENT political appointments from corrupting actual performance. We have the Civil Service as it is because the OTHER way wasn't working very well. Do try to learn your history. You have it backwards. The current system is the treatment for what you complain about, not the other way around.

champ1, you're correct that the prevailing mental attitude in business has become cut-cut-cut and make the workers compensate for the productivity where technology can't.

Not that they get better paid for it, there's a reason why the compensation gap has been growing.

American workers are more productive than ever, it's just not enough people being hired.

I certainly agree, business's mental attitude is responsible. Too bad your cure is the same failed treatment that hasn't ever worked. It just serves as an excuse, much like old-time leeching.

August 23, 2012 at 11:35 a.m.
please login to post a comment

videos »         

photos »         

e-edition »

advertisement
advertisement

Find a Business

400 East 11th St., Chattanooga, TN 37403
General Information (423) 756-6900
Copyright, Permissions, Terms & Conditions, Privacy Policy, Ethics policy - Copyright ©2014, Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc. All rights reserved.
This document may not be reprinted without the express written permission of Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc.