published Friday, February 3rd, 2012

Unfortunately necessary bills on religious liberty in public square

If common sense and a reasonable reading of the First Amendment to the Constitution prevailed, there would be little need for federal legislation explicitly spelling out protections for religious liberty and expression in the public square.

But reason and common sense are not always in ample supply. So the U.S. House of Representatives recently passed legislation that would make it clear that religious symbols may be used at military memorials.

One of the bills passed declares it officially permissible to place religious markers at federally overseen war memorials. Why is that bill necessary? Because a year ago, the notoriously liberal 9th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals declared it unconstitutional to leave in place a cross on a government-managed memorial near La Jolla, Calif. The cross was erected 99 years ago and honors all U.S. veterans.

The bill would protect "the inclusion of all symbols of religion and personal faith on war memorials established and under the control of the federal government," according to its sponsor, U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif.

The second piece of legislation would place at the World War II Memorial in Washington a plaque commemorating President Franklin D. Roosevelt's prayer on D-Day, June 6, 1944.

"With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy," the prayer began. "Help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogances."

Having passed in the House already, these bills should be approved by the Senate as well, and then be signed into law by President Barack Obama.

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Let's see how long you tolerate a non-Christian symbol getting the same treatment and priority.

February 3, 2012 at 12:33 a.m.
librul said...

The "apostles of greed" are now in New York and Washington, and "racial arrogances" pale in comparison to religious ones visited on all of us these days by christian political zealots and terrorists. And all of this is supremely offensive to American citizens who profess no faith but are equal citizens under the law. When recognition of THAT is the subject of legislation, America will have come "true to its creed."

February 3, 2012 at 8:41 a.m.
conservative said...

Whew! The seethin heathins are really hungover this morning.

February 3, 2012 at 9:01 a.m.

So conservative, where can I put up my tribute to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I demand the same recognition in the public square as anybody else.

February 3, 2012 at 9:27 a.m.
conservative said...

Hmm, we have statues of frogs in public parks, stautues of lions in public parks and squares, Confederate soldiers on horses in parks and squares, plaques with military symbols in parks and public squares, scores of buildings in pubic named in honor of someone, the writings of famous people etched in stone on public property but it's not ok to display the Ten Commandments on public property. The practice of which would eleminate the tremendous cost of crime in our society.

Are Lieberals just stupid or evil!

February 3, 2012 at 9:52 a.m.

It's not ok if you don't give other religions the same treatment.

If you want to print out the relevant criminal statutes instead, why don't you do that instead of trying to glorify your religion over others?

February 3, 2012 at 10:43 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

Umm, whatever happened to the concept of not creating graven images? Do christians understand the concept of idolatry?

Christians should worry less about their perceived persecution by the state and just obey the teachings of their Bible.

GRAVEN IMAGE-: an object of worship carved usually from wood or stone. -Merriam-Webster

February 3, 2012 at 11:58 a.m.
librul said...

Conservative (predictably) said: "Displaying the decalogue on public property would "eliminate the cost of crime" ????

Wow, that's a new one - and even more steeped in myth than his source document.

February 3, 2012 at 2:23 p.m.
conservative said...

Lieberal--

Can you really be that stupid or are you just lying (Lieberal). The "practice" ( the word I used ) of the Ten Commandments would virtually eliminate crime and it's cost in our society. For example the 6th commandment "thou shalt not kill". Now if people did not murder, not only would lives be saved but the cost of investigation, arrest, detention, trial, and incarceration would be saved as well. Get it? The 7th commandment states " thou shalt not commit adultery". Adultery often ends in the cost of a divorce, a murder trial, hospitilization from a beating, child support payments and alimony payments to name a few consequencies. Get it? The 8th commandment " Thou shalt not steal". You may have noticed that there is always monetary loss to the victum and costs much like those I have already mentioned for the crime of murder. Get it? I hope so, I don't think I could have made it any plainer.

Now you know, if you didn't already.

February 3, 2012 at 3:28 p.m.

Of course those are entirely neutral examples with existing laws (and pre-existing!) that could be posted instead.

Why not post them, instead of giving your religion favoritism?

February 3, 2012 at 4:21 p.m.
conservative said...

" Of course those are entirely neutral examples with existing laws (and pre-existing!) that could be posted instead"

Do you ever proofread what you write? Do you even know what you write? Do you ever wonder why no one responds to you or even tries to figure out what you write?

"Why not post them, instead of giving your religion favoritism?" I think you are here asking me to disregard GOD, the creator of the universe and you and I. He is the ultimate authority and it is He who you and I will ultimately stand before in judgement. Why wouln't I cite GOD, the highest authority and source of all truth?

Now if you are true to form you will change the subject or write some long gibberish understandable only to you.

February 3, 2012 at 4:59 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

So, conservative (the conservative who could not define what a "conservative" nor give examples of TROO CONSERVATIVES (TM) is on another thread) are you suggesting that taking the lord's name in vain or not worshipping god or not honoring the sabbath should be crimes?

February 3, 2012 at 5:13 p.m.
conservative said...

You heathins are really seethin today.

What are you so angry about today? Why are you trying to draw me into some argument based on a strawman you've constructed? Don't you have anything better to do?

February 3, 2012 at 5:27 p.m.

If anything conservative, I've found that when people complain that they can't understand what somebody else says, it's a fault of theirs more often than a fault of mine. See, your antagonism is so relentless...it's not trustworthy, and if anything, it's indicative of your problems, not mine.

But no, I'm not asking you to disregard anything in your own personal beliefs. Just to give me the freedom I give you. I'm asking you to not force me to kow-tow to YOUR version, but to instead only ask of me from a neutral point of view that asks fairly of everybody. Or do you believe YOUR God wants you to force me to live under the rule of YOUR God?

If so, then I have the only reason I need to deny YOUR God rule.

February 3, 2012 at 5:50 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Now conservative, sweetie, (may I call you sweetie?) I'm not angry. It's Friday night, I don't have to work until 8AM tomorrow (Gasp! A liberal who works! On weekends no less!), I have the evening off. No anger at all. Just want you to support what you say here.

A) Should public spaces post only Christian (actually Protestant) items, symbols, etc. or can all of us post our beliefs on public space at government expense? May I post the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? B) Define "conservative" and give some examples of who are TROO CONSERVATIVES (TM)

Feel free to answer here or bolt like you did last time. I may have to taunt you again if you run away. (Hat Tip to Monty Python)

February 3, 2012 at 6:21 p.m.
conservative said...

I have never written anything advocating ONLY Christian items, symbols, etc be placed on public spaces. I named earlier in the day many non Christian items that are on display in public spaces. I never once stated that they should not be allowed.

Your "Flying Spaghetti Monster" god is your strawman. I have never heard of it so how can you say or imply that I oppose it in a public place. This is an argument for children, don't bother me with it and I will not waste my time on such foolishness.

You and bulb are bitter people and your hatred for GOD is evident.

February 3, 2012 at 7:10 p.m.

You keep ducking the issue, instead of actively accepting them. You enumerated non-religious, even secular items. That is distinct from actual acceptance of the iconography of other religions.

So stop trying to derail the discussion yourself, and let's see you state that you will give the same right of prominence to the items of other religions as you demand for your own.

Will you, or won't you?

Or will you just keep running away?

February 3, 2012 at 7:18 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I can't hate what doesn't exist, conservative, sweetie. And you didn't answer either question. Can other RELIGIOUS beliefs be represented in public spaces supported by tax dollars or not? And you conveniently forgot question B. Try again.

BTW, dearie, you seem to be the one who is angry.

PSS: The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a religious belief. Don't believe me? Try teh google.

February 3, 2012 at 7:18 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

crickets chirping

Oh, dear. How will I entertain myself now? Conservative has run away again.

Pity. Kinda diminishes one's credibility, conservative.

February 3, 2012 at 8:39 p.m.

Maybe he's out preaching the word tonight. There's a lot of wayward souls on a Friday.

February 3, 2012 at 8:39 p.m.
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