published Friday, June 29th, 2012

The Decision

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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True, it was a mess.

But I think the Republican boxing in the mirror would be more accurate.

June 29, 2012 at 12:03 a.m.
Salsa said...

I think it is ironic that the Obama administration went out of their way to proclaim over and over that it was not a tax and then the Supreme Court finds it constitutional because it is a tax.

June 29, 2012 at 12:19 a.m.

Didn't bother me. People just hyperventilate over the thought of taxes.

Even if it ends up improving their life a thousand-fold, I suspect some people would refuse to pay a cent more in taxes.

June 29, 2012 at 12:21 a.m.

Exactly, Salsa. Now Obama will have to spend the next few months up until the election trying to distract from the 21 new taxes coming. It may have been passed without it being allowed to fully scrutinized, but it will be taken apart in the next few months and people will be shocked. All in the name of control. Nauseating.

June 29, 2012 at 12:26 a.m.
alprova said...

"Congress's authority under the taxing power is limited to requiring an individual to pay money into the Federal Treasury, no more. If a tax is properly paid, the Government has no power to compel or punish individuals subject to it. We do not make light of the severe burden that taxation -- especially taxation motivated by a regulatory purpose -- can impose. But imposition of a tax nonetheless leaves an individual with a lawful choice to do or not do a certain act, so long as he is willing to pay a tax levied on that choice."

Ding, ding, ding, ding...

June 29, 2012 at 12:30 a.m.

Yeah, all the scrutinizing that has produced a bunch of falsehoods and overblown hysteria to the point where instead of a genuine and honest dialogue, we got a bunch of finger-pointing and blame-casting that just got people worked into a frenzy over lies. All in the name of control and power-grabbing. Now that was nauseating.

It still is.

You were already overpaying for your healthcare, unless you were a freeloader. You do dislike freeloaders, don't you? Now they won't be able to make your costs go up by not having the money for the care they receive!

And the rest of us will get more preventative help, to reduce costs over and above what they would be.

Isn't an ounce of prevention worth more than a pound of cure?

June 29, 2012 at 12:31 a.m.
alprova said...

Salsa Wrote: "I think it is ironic that the Obama administration went out of their way to proclaim over and over that it was not a tax and then the Supreme Court finds it constitutional because it is a tax."

You misunderstand. The Court ruled that the mandate was constitutional if collected as a tax, having been passed by Congress as such.

Thus, the mandate will have to be rewritten with the wording that takes out the words "penalty" or "fines" and must now be identified as a "tax" to meet the Court's ruling that it is constitutional.

That should take a clerk about five minutes.

""Article I, Section 8, Clause 1:"" "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

June 29, 2012 at 12:39 a.m.

I'm not sure they have to rewrite it or republish it in the Federal Register, the consideration may just be how it is looked at by the Courts.

June 29, 2012 at 12:43 a.m.

Yeah, Alprova. In other words, it's now unlawful to not have health insurance. You 're not legal unless you have health insurance. 21 new taxes/700 billion, and of course, thousands of new IRS agents to to make sure we're well taken care of. If its about control, you leftists are all for it.

Dialogue and transperancy? "we need to pass it so we can see what's in it"

Sorry, Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Michelle Obama, the whole gang are all about control. That's what at the core of what Obama is about it. You can do your song and dance, but he's not be trusted.

I read the disenting opinion. Now that was brilliant.

June 29, 2012 at 12:47 a.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

Last year and this year I will be/ have been required to have labs drawn a BMI recorded, lifestyle survey and get a FIT age in order to recieve "discounts" toward my employer provided heath insurance. My employer's portion of my premiums are being listed on my quarterly benefit statement to be taxed as income at a later time but the arguement is being made that it will save me money in the long run? It is another transfer of wealth/control from the middle class to the bueracrats in the name of helping the poor.

June 29, 2012 at 12:59 a.m.
Renfield said...

Our angry blonde friend makes a fine argument for single-payer national health.

June 29, 2012 at 12:59 a.m.

Sorry BBNB, but the full quote is:

“But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy.”

Do try to lie a little less transparently. I'm not concerned that you changed "have" to "need" but I do find it striking that you don't mention the point of her words.

Why was that? Do you like dialogue and transparency when you don't follow it?

But no, it's not now unlawful to not have health insurance. You can be entirely legal without it. You just can't get by with being a freeloader.

Renfield, that is being implemented in Vermont. Guess we'll see if the Green Mountain state collapses or not.

June 29, 2012 at 1:02 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

nanny state, one worldism, entitlement society, free bubble-up & rainbow stew. We're getting there. Congratulations, comrades.

June 29, 2012 at 1:10 a.m.

Whatever lefties. Read Ed Meece's comments on Newsmax, or listen to Mark Levin, a Constitutional lawyer and author. I think their analysis carries more weight than your partisan, leftist, MSNBC fueled propaganda. Mark Levin runs rings around you people. The knowledge, clarity of thought and logic makes all of you look like clowns. You have no idea how positively idiotic you sound after listening to to him. Your motives are pretty clear.

Listen, Happy, there's nothing Nancy Pelosi has to say that is worth listening to. She's thoroughly corrupt and looks down her nose at people like me.

June 29, 2012 at 1:16 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Pelosi. What a joke. One more face-lift and she will have a goatee.

June 29, 2012 at 1:21 a.m.
GlacierClipper said...

Helping the poor is the cry of the Obama Administration.

Where are the jobs that the Stimulus Packages were supose to bring?

Obama is a the problem.

Obama will be the problem until he has to leave office.

Obama is the worse President in the history of the USA. That is my opinion and nothing can change my opinion.

June 29, 2012 at 1:21 a.m.

Well, I'm off to bed.

Exactly, Jack. Listen to how they try and sell it all as a positive thing and it's all just so harmless.

The loss of freedom of choice and individuality is enough to make me ill. But, they don't feel that because they love to push people around and dictate. It is the Nanny state, and it's one big, mean, angry nanny. Kind of like Obama with a wig on. Ewwwww

June 29, 2012 at 1:22 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

blonde: You go girl!

June 29, 2012 at 1:26 a.m.

Blondebutnotdumb, you just finished a paragraph where you sneer down at the analysis of others who don't agree with you while loudly trumpeting those you support?

And then you end it by complaining about Nancy Pelosi being condescending and arrogant? Way to destroy your position in one post. I salute your ability to destroy the right-wing agenda and suggest you get a job with the National GOP. They'll probably cheer you on as you destroy the party's remaining legitimacy.

GlacierClipper, if you want to talk about the benefits of the stimulus, there are many economists who can show you plenty of positive outcomes. But you just said nothing can change your opinion, so...why would anybody bother trying?

June 29, 2012 at 1:40 a.m.
alprova said...

BBND wrote: "Yeah, Alprova. In other words, it's now unlawful to not have health insurance. You 're not legal unless you have health insurance."

It's called being self-responsible, which was a-okay with Republicans until the Democrats started agreeing with them, and then the Republicans did an about-face on the issue.

"21 new taxes/700 billion, and of course, thousands of new IRS agents to to make sure we're well taken care of."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/oct/13/jon-huntsman/jon-huntsman-says-irs-will-hire-19500-new-workers-/

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/02/irs-and-the-health-care-law-part-ii/

"If its about control, you leftists are all for it."

It's not about control. It's about urging everyone to become more responsible for their health care expenses and reducing the burden to the taxpayers of this nation.

You offer your charge as if Right-winger's don't seek to control people with their legislative initiatives.

Is wanting to prevent a woman from seeking an abortion not about control? Is seeking a return to mandatory prayer in schools or at football games not about control? Are faith based initiatives, where people must be subjected to a sermon before receiving assistance, not about control? Are efforts to prevent gay marriage not about control?

Why not face the fact that it's all about "control" unless of course, you agree with it?

"I read the disenting opinion. Now that was brilliant."

To what end? The mandate stands.

June 29, 2012 at 1:42 a.m.
alprova said...

"Read Ed Meece's comments on Newsmax, or listen to Mark Levin, a Constitutional lawyer and author. I think their analysis carries more weight than your partisan, leftist, MSNBC fueled propaganda."

Apparently not. They were wrong, were they not? Everyone who thought they had the Supreme Court pegged has egg on their face. Levin has made a career out of bashing Supreme Court Justices.

"Mark Levin runs rings around you people."

Mark Levin is a Rush Limbaugh groupie. He listens in on Rush's show to make a list of the topics he discusses on his own show. His voice is like listening to nails on a chalkboard. It's very much like listening to a three year old pitch a fit in the grocery store. How anyone can listen to that man for more than five minutes, is beyond all comprehension. Why even his own dog had to die to get some peace and quiet.

"The knowledge, clarity of thought and logic makes all of you look like clowns. You have no idea how positively idiotic you sound after listening to to him. Your motives are pretty clear."

You haven't got the first clue. You never have an original thought of your own. You mimic what you read and hear. That's it.

June 29, 2012 at 1:56 a.m.
alprova said...

BBND wrote: "The loss of freedom of choice and individuality is enough to make me ill."

Oh...I'm sorry. I had you pegged all wrong. You are then, I assume, pro-choice and for people being allowed to marry whomever they choose?

June 29, 2012 at 2 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Al, "Oh...I'm sorry. I had you pegged all wrong. You are then, I assume, pro-choice and for people being allowed to marry whomever they choose?" So anything goes, huh Al?

June 29, 2012 at 2:50 a.m.
jazzman said...

Republicans love 'democracy' when they 'win' a SCOTUS decision, but then want to gut the whole system in an apoplectic rage, screaming about an imminent armageddon when they lose.

Republicans don't know what to do,, they are demoralized, they've ranted about socialism and marxism for so long they actually believed their own rhetoric, and now the Court has ruled that republicans are wrong.

A good example of this right-winging insane paranoia today, was the TB'er Rand Paul, who said that just because a majority of five justices of the SCOTUS rule in favor of the healthcare mandate issue, that doesn't make it constitutional. Republicans do have a special way with 'the stupid'.

re: Salsa said...

You should go review what 'Willard, the 'self-deporter', said about his health care mandate while he was Governor, , how he 'sold' it, and how he described his fee/penalty structure. That's assuming you really want to know what you're talking about.

re: blondebutnotdumb said...

....'The loss of freedom of choice and individuality is enough to make me ill'

Those mandated, forced republican trans-vaginal ultrasounds certainly are an affront to the individual freedom of choice for women.

June 29, 2012 at 3:49 a.m.
EaTn said...

Now that the law has been upheld by the SCOTUS, Romney will have the next four months to promise to kill the Obama-care law that was patterned after a similar law he implemented as governor. Of course this will make perfect sense to those right-wingers who get their information from right-wing news and talking heads. Our country just passed another milestone toward joining the rest of the modern world in universal healthcare.

June 29, 2012 at 6:04 a.m.
wallyworld said...

I'm truly inspired by the repukes on here that are so irritated that now through their insurance premiums they won't be paying for every poor soul that wanders into an emergency room for expensive treatment, paid by for you and me that have insurance. That is truly benevolent. But, if you would put your irrational hatred aside and read what is TRULY in this bill, you would be like 82% of Americans that like all the provisons, now get this, they just don't like the name THEY gave it. As your mother who has maxed out her lifetime coverage on cancer care. Or a child that comes into this world with a god-forbid pre-existing condition that insurance companies, heretofore, could just say no, we don't have to cover you. Get you heads out all the lies about what's in this bill and learn something for ONCE in your lives. Those that cannot afford it will be allowed a 'tax' (ooooooooooohboooogeyboooogey) break. Those that do have the means but want to wait until they wind up in an emergency room on your dime, will pay a trivial 'tax', which by the way is not even ewnforceable.

June 29, 2012 at 6:18 a.m.
Reardon said...

Now the government can rule individuals must buy something... they don't want... or face a tax?

Helping the little man be responsible... by FORCE, one barrel of a gun at a time...

June 29, 2012 at 6:23 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Th law was already passed before SCOTUS ever got a hold of it. All they did was bring out the fact that Obama lied about it not being a tax.

June 29, 2012 at 6:24 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Wally don't have a clue! When it all goes to hell, you can't blame Bush for this one. Obama signed his own political death warrant.

June 29, 2012 at 6:27 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

"Between the Arizona and Obamacare decisions, America is a very different concept than it was just a week ago. In the United States of America, you either purchase what central authorities tell you to purchase or they will punish you with taxes. In America, states are not allowed to fully protect their citizens from the slow-motion invasion across their borders. The Feds opted out of the program in Arizona. States are powerless. And don't forget Obama just granted de facto amnesty to over one million illegal aliens".

"So now we look forward to November".

The majority of Americans don't want Obamcare. So tell me again just how this automatically translates into victory for Obama in November? '.

June 29, 2012 at 6:32 a.m.
wallyworld said...

I can tell by the astute comments made by joneses and toes02800 they know far more about this bill than meets the eye. I wish I was privy to your inside knowledge. I do know this country is #1 in what it spends on health insurance, and #37 in the in the results obtained by that flawed system. But if you want to continue paying the hospital bills of those that don't want to buy it because they truly believe they'll never need it or just plain can't afford it. Go for it.

June 29, 2012 at 6:40 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

"This is Barack Obama's George Bush Sr. "read my lips" moment as far as the taxes go, because that's what it was sold as. Now, for the very same people that the Democrats claim to always want to lower taxes and keep taxes for... You know, tax the rich but don't tax the poor people. These people who voted for Obama are now gonna be the ones who are gonna be taxed. And if the IRS gets on your case, they don't let go. These people don't know what they're getting into".

Tell it brother, tell it!

June 29, 2012 at 7:22 a.m.
joneses said...

Affordable Care Act's mandate does not require everyone to buy insurance Published: Friday, June 29, 2012, 5:55 AM By Diane Suchetka, The Plain Dealer Follow

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AP Opponents of the Affordable Care Act signed by President Barack Obama, rallied in front of the Supreme Court in March when arguments in the case were heard. CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act's mandate -- the controversial provision upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday -- doesn't require everyone to buy insurance. Who doesn't have to buy insurance? • American Indians, prisoners and undocumented immigrants. • Some religious groups. Those that have historically been exempt from the Social Security system, such as the Old Order Amish, are one example. Religious groups whose members pay for one another's health care instead of buying insurance are also exempt. • Those whose family income is so low they don't have to file a tax return. Those numbers vary depending on several factors, including how old you are, whether you're married and whether you're the head of your household. • Those who earn so little that health insurance premiums, after federal subsidies and employer contributions, would total more than 8 percent of their income. • Those who already have insurance through Medicaid, Medicare, an employer or veteran's health program. Who will get help paying for their coverage? • Those who earn up to 400 percent of the federal poverty level will get subsidies if they don't have employer-provided insurance. For a single person, that's an annual salary of $44,680. For a couple, it's $60,520. For a family of four, $92,200.

June 29, 2012 at 7:37 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Joneses,

Keep up this copy and paste propaganda. It is sure to make everyone avoid reading your posts.

June 29, 2012 at 8:29 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

WHEN IS A MANDATE NOT A MANDATE?

When the penalty is insignificant. The 'mandate' only applies to individuals who can afford to buy health insurance but choose not to. The IRS can then add a penalty to their taxes or withhold the penalty from that individual's return.

It will still be much cheaper to refuse to buy insurance, visit the emergency room when you're sick, and let the rest of us pay your medical bills through higher premiums on our own policies.

Back when the individal mandate was still a republican talking point, Newt Gingrich said, "You know, a significant amount of the uninsured in America earn over $75,000 a year; they just make a decision they’re just not going to buy health insurance, that if something happens to them their neighbors are going to take care of them."

The Affordable Health Care bill tried to address that problem but the penalty is too insignificant to force anyone to buy anything.

June 29, 2012 at 9:03 a.m.
BobMKE said...

I agree with Clay’s cartoon. Oblamea has been beaten up on Oblameacare. I also agreed with a previous posters comment that this is Oblamea’s “Read my lips, no new taxes,” moment. If the bill were overturned Oblamea would have had an issue to run on, blaming (he’s a pro on this) the SCOTUS as too partisan, and then whining to the American people that he tried his best to get them healthcare. The majority of the people, and a vast majority of business owners do now want this bill. The business owners are not hiring and will not hire until after the elections. It is what it is. I don’t blame them. Also the businesses that employ around 50 workers would make sure they have less than that number, and have more part time employees, if the bill continues. The only reason that Justice Roberts flip-flopped is because he didn’t want his court to be viewed as an activist court. Justice Roberts was wrong and he created new future disasters. The lower courts didn’t make a reference that the bill is a tax, but the SCOTUS did. Huh! But, on this ruling Justice Roberts pulled the rug out from under Oblamea. There is a silver lining here. All the RNC has to do now is use the video of Oblamea saying, “This is not a tax.” That along with, “It’s the economy stupid,” Oblamea won the battle, but he will lose the war, and take down a lot of other Democrats with him. Watch now how the politicians, running for reelection, stay clear of Oblamea. It wouldn’t work and the vast majority of them will be toast in November.

June 29, 2012 at 9:04 a.m.
bret said...

When Nancy Pelosi said "We need to pass it so you can see what's in it" she was referring to all the false horror stories from the right about Obamacare.
Apparently, Rep. Pelosi over-estimated the intelligence of the Republicans since many of them still don't know what is in it.

June 29, 2012 at 9:13 a.m.
patriot1 said...

If there is one word that can describe all these left wing, social programs such as social security, medicare, and now obamacare... it's MANDATORY.

June 29, 2012 at 9:19 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Patriot,

You can opt-out of Medicare. You just have to repay all your SS benefits.

Why do you care so much about it being mandatory? If you don't like it, move!

June 29, 2012 at 9:25 a.m.
TinaFrench said...

After reading all of the morning posts, I have to say that Jack_Dennis is the only one who took a swipe at a woman based on her looks, not her ability. That shows just what kind of person you are, and I will pass over your posts from this day forward. You probably don't see anything wrong with it, do you?

June 29, 2012 at 9:27 a.m.
Leaf said...

The bite out of Obamas ear is brilliant. Hilarious!

June 29, 2012 at 9:34 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Tina,

"I will pass over your posts from this day forward."

I have enacted that policy for myself just yesterday. Jack is an internet troll that tries to get everyone off topic with useless rhetoric and personal attacks. I'm glad someone else has become aware of this and made it known.

June 29, 2012 at 9:35 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Tina: Although there's a smidgen of truth to what I said about ugly women, the statement was mostly in jest. Sincere apologies.

June 29, 2012 at 9:36 a.m.
alprova said...

joneses wrote: "If obastardcare is so great then why does it not apply to obastard, moochele, congress, and the activist liberal supreme court?"

joneses, you need to do a little more research before you spout off.

Nobody at all is "required" to insure themselves through the insurance reforms contained in the Affordable Care Act. Any or every American is certainly allowed to seek insurance coverage outside of those contained in the Affordable Care Act, and people are even allowed to self-insure themselves if they have the means to do so.

That aside, after January 1, 2014, members of Congress and their staff will only be offered health care benefits through health care exchanges that will be set up, or they can choose from plans outlined in the Affordable Care Act, or they can seek insurance of their own choosing, out of their own pockets.

They will not longer be offered coverage under the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program.

June 29, 2012 at 9:47 a.m.
conservative said...

To beat up to last the first round in the upcoming title fight!

June 29, 2012 at 10:04 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy: Flattered that you're passing on my posts. But the troll thing is bogus. I was raised in Nooga. BTW, you're the LAST poster that should be complaining about personal attacks.Tina, pass on me if you must, but please don't take advice from an adolescent like Easy.

June 29, 2012 at 10:12 a.m.
shifarobe said...

I see that classless meatball on stick we call the president can't resist gloating. BO texted on twitter "still a BFD"(BIG FRIGGIN' DEAL) What a classless A$$ we have in White House! HIGHEST TAX INCREASE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!! BAROKE INSANE ODUMMY!! CHOOM GANG MORON. George Washington is spinning 100 miles an hour in his tomb.

June 29, 2012 at 10:13 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Just a reminder, joneses, I will flag any comment containing the slur "bastard". You were doing pretty well there for awhile; let's not lose it, shall we?

June 29, 2012 at 10:17 a.m.

I guess this is what happens when you have to pass the bill to see what is in it.

June 29, 2012 at 10:24 a.m.
fairmon said...

Obamacare is now confirmed as a law. It will evolve to it's final form over the next few years. Many regs remain to be written, the panel has yet to be appointed by the president. The number flip flopping on the issue that are not in the "free health care" category will be significant as the cost and impact becomes evident.

The major entitlements, essentially welfare programs, are not fully paid for unless major tax increases are imposed on everyone. Social security, medicare, medicaid, obamacare plus many other welfare programs are costly and will become more so.

People will not accept any change in those programs until the tax rates increase enough to pay for them. The pain for those paying those taxes will become unbearable. Those tax increases need to occur immediately to stop the out of control deficits and increasing debt. The military industrial complex spending is similarly out of control.

June 29, 2012 at 10:32 a.m.
shifarobe said...

Joneses I sympathize!! How can we be proud of what's going on!! Read the last two paragraphs of Harps post. SCARY!! "unbearable" And the meatball head in charge is pounding his scrawny chest and gloating on twitter!! WHAT A COLD, DUMB, UNCARING FOOL!

June 29, 2012 at 10:42 a.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "So anything goes, huh Al?"

Well...not necessarily, but if someone gets ill at the thought of losing an ability to choose a personal freedom, I feel that they should be consistent.

June 29, 2012 at 10:44 a.m.
tderng said...

I have always been proud to be a citizen of the United States of America.Not so sure I will be as proud to be a citizen of the Divided States of America,Or the United Socialist States of America. Alas I can only hope the change will be slow as I am old enough that if it is slow I will not be here to see it. Arizona no longer has a reason to remain a state of America as the federal government refuses to help keep their citizens safe from foreign invaders. If I were governor I would instruct the state and local police to give the feds zero help in solving or even reporting on federal crimes in their state.Bank robbers,federal crimes,let the feds investigate and respond. Screw the federal government and their selective enforcement of our laws.Let them investigate with no help from local enforcement,turn the tables on the Divider in Chief and his lackey Eric Holder,The Contemptible Attorney General. Hereto referred to as C.A.G.

June 29, 2012 at 11 a.m.
dao1980 said...

joneses said: "I am not longer proud of America"

See ya bye!

June 29, 2012 at 11 a.m.
limric said...

Well – That’s the death knell for Single Payer. Only the glassy eyed left, Obama apologists, corporate liberals, Wall St., insurance companies and Big Pharma are cheering, and laughing all the way to the bank. And to all of you who wanted Single Payer (that’d be me) and think this is a step towards that, BEEP – incorrect! There will be no move towards Single Payer now by the Democrats. They are sitting on their laurels congratulating themselves on how wonderful they are. Unless the right now repeals it in Congress (which ain’t gonna happen) this is now the new normal and is just another step towards corporatism. This time under the guise of the phony left.

Healthcare will now be dispensed by a government-insurance company partnership/corporation. Try reading the ACA instead of just repeating pro or con Obamacare dogma. It takes a awhile and most is not easy to understand but it’s kind of interesting and illustrates that despite the colorful ribbons and bows on the box (those touted by the Democrats), some of which are good and definitely needed, a greater portion the boxes contents primarily benefit the insurance industry and Big Pharma. Make no mistake, the ACA was primarily written by and for their benefit not yours or mine. Single Payer was co-opted long ago.

At this juncture, I don’t think ACA will get Medicare costs under control contrary to what the Democrats are saying about the so-called exchanges. The costs originate with the pharmaceutical, medical device companies and the medical profession as a whole and will just continue to be passed along. With more people under the insurance companies, these costs will continue to grow & multiply.

By the end of Obama's second term (if reelected) Americans will be really pissed off. Not only will they be pissed at the increased problems with getting health care, but they will become enraged at paying fines (it’s a regressive tax) for not participating in the individual mandate. I can even see rebellion against this from both States and an amalgamation of the Tea Party with the Occupy movement. Libertarians will, as always protest and cry about liberty and freedom, but won’t actually do anything.

On the flip side:

This is a win win for Obamney. Republicans and Obamney now have a real battle cry for the base. Everyone knows that Romney doesn’t believe in anything, so from a political perspective, the cry will be - only electing a Republican president and Congress can we undo the ACA, since the Supreme Court won’t. And their plan - vouchers and the privatization of Medicare! That means giving your money to Wall Street and its associated (conjoined) insurance companies. A much MUCH worse scenario.

You can beat the Christmas rush and start hating me now, but just wait and watch what happens. Health care will now get worse before it gets better. And the fight over health care will only grow ever more chaotic, political – and expensive.

June 29, 2012 at 11:06 a.m.
shifarobe said...

You got it TD!! He doesn't give a crap about the HUGE, HUGE, TAX BURDEN COMING to the middle class or citizens in danger! To be ok with this guy in office means you have to want the same DAMN vision he wants. What kind of freakin' country do you want? ILLEGAL ALIENS kissed up to and tax payers getting the SHAFT. To try and convince us that the middle class will be ok with this MASSIVE TAX BURDEN is insulting.

June 29, 2012 at 11:09 a.m.
alprova said...

joneses wrote: "alprova, You are a liar. Congress, obastard, moochelle and the supreme court's insurance remains as is. Look it up you lying, foolish POS."

What you read on blogs is not fact. Calling me a liar only proves you ignorant to an extreme.

Section 1312 of the Affordable Care Act reads as follows:

"(D) MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EXCHANGE

(i) REQUIREMENT - Notwithstanding any other provision of law, after the effective date of this subtitle, the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are;

(I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or

(II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).

(ii) DEFINITIONS.-In this section:

(I) MEMBER OF CONGRESS.-The term "Member of Congress" means any member of the House of Representatives or the Senate.

(II) CONGRESSIONAL STAFF.-The term "congressional staff" means all full-time and part-time employees employed by the official office of a Member of Congress, whether in Washington, DC or outside of Washington, DC.

June 29, 2012 at 11:14 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

limric: Good points. If there's a second term for BHO (blessings upon him), the election in '20 will likely produce the largest backlash in our history. No telling who could be elected. Despite the huge numbers of southpaws, I still think we have a majority of rational thinking americans. One of these days they will be heard big-time.

June 29, 2012 at 11:14 a.m.
mymy said...

I still say hide and watch as more and more comes out about what is in this bill. The worse is scheduled to start in 2014.

Lefties: If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is!

ObamaCare's 7 Tax Hikes On Under $250,000-A-Year Earners

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2012/06/28/obamacares-7-tax-hikes-on-under-250000-a-year-earners/

June 29, 2012 at 11:18 a.m.
limric said...

Sorry everyone, but this is how ah sees it.

http://www.clowncrack.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/TheDriversSeat.jpg

I did forget to say, Great cartoon Clay.

June 29, 2012 at 11:19 a.m.

With this kind of law the government can mandate anything they want and put a monetary penalty on not doing it and call it a tax. I can't wait till the republicans get in and mandate that everyone must own a gun or buy a Tim Tebow jersey. It will be constitutional because it will be a tax.

June 29, 2012 at 11:22 a.m.
tderng said...

Speaking of flipping the deck. Now that there are African-Americans in charge of the country and deciding who is and is not to be prosecuted for crimes. Can white people holler racism on their part? When the A.G. refuses to indict the New Black Panther party for putting a bounty on a white man.That is racism according to my understanding of the term.

Institutional racism (also known as structural racism, state racism or systemic racism) is racial discrimination by governments, corporations, religions, or educational institutions or other large organizations with the power to influence the lives of many individuals...wikipedia.

I had hoped that electing an African-American to the Oval Office would help bring us together. Unfortunately the policies presented by this administration have done just the opposite. A wedge seems to be driven between every group in our country,whites and blacks,rich and poor,Hispanic and whites,etc.It almost seems as if "someone" wants a divided America so as to reach an end goal of some sort.

June 29, 2012 at 11:28 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Worth noting that Team Obama still won't say penalty is a tax. They know how politically toxic that designation is.

June 29, 2012 at 11:33 a.m.
MickeyRat said...

Jones. Your commentary is like opening up a box full of baby Hyenas.

And by your logic,or whatever is in your head that sounds like an empty coffee can full of pebbles - Calling you the KKK's Imperial Wizard means you are.

Maybe you should stay with yo' mama

She could do your laundry 'n' cook for you

Maybe you should stay with yo' mama

You're really kinda stupid 'n ugly too

And... You should never smoke in pajamas

You might start a fire 'n' burn yer face

Maybe you'll return to Managua

You could go unnoticed in such a place

You ain't really made for bein' out in the street Ain't much hope for a fool like you- 'Cause if you play the game, you will get beat.

June 29, 2012 at 11:36 a.m.

Obamacare is definitely designed to destroy private health insurance companies. Thousands of Tennesseans will lose their jobs because of this legislation. Tens of thousands of Americans will join the unemployment roles because of it. There will be lots more government jobs though. Just the result they were looking for.

June 29, 2012 at 11:39 a.m.

Y'all are thinking Grover Norquist is worshiped by people other than the right-wing.

Too bad...he's not.

But hey, you can have everybody who is paying more because of this law, while I'll take everybody who can now get insurance thanks to it.

Oooh, yeah. No wonder you're trying to get us afraid of your tax bogeyman.

June 29, 2012 at 12:06 p.m.
mymy said...

Justice Robert's said in his opinion:

Roberts explained why he had sided with the four liberal justices: not because he thought the health care law was "good policy" but because there wasn't a constitutional reason to invalidate the individual mandate at the core of the law. "We possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments," he wrote in his majority opinion, which he read in part from the bench. "Those decisions are entrusted to our nation's elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices."

June 29, 2012 at 12:27 p.m.
miraweb said...

Someone yesterday posted that premiums are rising faster in Massachusetts than elsewhere because of the reforms. They threw out a number of "22%". The real number is 18% over three years.

There is a nugget of truth - premiums did rise in Massachusetts and in every other state. Historically, premiums did rise faster in Mass than elsewhere. That may be why it was the first state to pass reforms.

However, this round the Massachusetts insurance commissioner rejected 235 of 274 requests for rate increases as being excessive (up to 32%). The insurers decided they could manage on single-digit increases.

The new law doesn't mean insurers won't ask for huge rate increases. It's so hard to break old habits.

It does make it more in the interest of the regulators to say "No!" or even "Hell No!"

Five Massachusetts insurers are sending checks for $57 million in rebates for steering too large a chunk of premium dollars into non-medical spending.

Controlling costs will not be easy with the new structure. It just now becomes possible.

June 29, 2012 at 12:44 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Joneses,

It appears you have a strange affection/admiration for fecal matter.

You seem mad. LOLOLOLOL!

June 29, 2012 at 1 p.m.
Easy123 said...

tu,

"free exchange of ideas"

LOL! You deem cursing and personal insults an "exchange of ideas"? LOL! Let me exchange an idea with you: You're an idiot!

"You Libtards have skin so thin that we can readily see that you have no guts at all"

How is this possible through the internet?

Speaking of no guts. Where were you yesterday? LOL! Were you mad? I bet you spent the entire day trying to fix your broken ego. You had to listen to all your self-help tapes and tell yourself how great you were.

I guess you were afraid to show your face after all that trash talk fell through. :)

LMFAO! LOSER!

June 29, 2012 at 1:45 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Get over yourself, tuqu.

June 29, 2012 at 1:47 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Tu,

"If we can create enough takers and champion their desire to not be forced to provide their own support then the producer class can do nothing about our taking of their earnings for our own purposes."

Translation: The longest run-on sentence ever typed.

And your translation isn't how this law works.

June 29, 2012 at 1:50 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MickeyRat: Your post is as empty as Easy's skull.

June 29, 2012 at 2:15 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Tu,

"If unpleasant and disturbing language is not allowed then you are not holding to the concept of the free exchange of ideas. - Dunce"

'Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited.' I bet you didn't read that part did you! LOL! Proving your ignorance yet again.

"I noticed that you wanted no part of me after the previous few days of me running you face-first in to every available brick wall."

LOL! Keep thumping! I know you need it.

June 29, 2012 at 2:17 p.m.

Easy123, longest run-on sentence? Not even close.

But actually the takers are the people getting emergency care without paying for it. Strange how everybody wants to forget what this penalty is about...fixing that issue, without adopting the callous option of letting people die.

June 29, 2012 at 2:20 p.m.
Easy123 said...

bulbs,

I was being jocular! Just trying to get under Tu's skin.

June 29, 2012 at 2:24 p.m.
chet123 said...

whineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

June 29, 2012 at 2:50 p.m.
Easy123 said...

tu,

I think ikeithlu said it best. Get over yourself.

Nothing you say could be mistaken as an "exchange of ideas". You only want to try to make yourself look better than the people you disagree with. You fail miserably.

No one wants to have a dialogue with you because you spew meaningless rhetoric and constantly try to attack people. "Fleabagger", "libtard", changing people's names around, etc. It's like reading a post from a bratty child.

You haven't won anything. You aren't better, smarter, wittier, etc. than anyone here. You are a prick. And you don't like it when you lose so you try to come back even harder and it still doesn't resonate.

I know you won't stop. Because that would mean acting like a reasonable person. But you should give it a try. We might actually be able to "exchange" ideas. But until then, keep thumping your chest because it is apparent that you need the ego boost.

June 29, 2012 at 3:01 p.m.
MickeyRat said...

Jack jack jack,

Explaining your guerrilla style invective is simplicity itself. Conservatards such as yourself, are factually challenged and voluntarily pseudo illiterates. I base these conclusions primarily on two issues: distaste of science and the denial of any human condition outside of your fenced back yard. The heat generated by your grey matter working through complex analysis - or anything other than “Free Markets save the world” pops your hard-wired neural circuits like corn heating in a kettle. Because reality is made up of “facts,” there must be some neuro-cognitive evolutionary reason for why your right wing brain limps along like a 100 year old steam train running out of coal.

In theory: Republicans – like you, are congenitally defective. That being said, I’m not making a value judgment because it may be just the chicken-egg argument that Republicans vote Retard because their parents voted Retard, which evolution then mutated their brain and biology, with the reprogrammed DNA then passed on to their children. Thus, culture does not equal genetics. I’m just reporting facts. The rest of us just need to to understand this mental slacker - and just nod and give him a pat on the head and say, "yes Jack."

Love, Mickey

June 29, 2012 at 3:09 p.m.
chet123 said...

America brags about being the richest country on earth...well just maybe they will now stand with the other industrial countries ...like britian,germany,japan,austria,canada,france,isreal,ireland,south Korea,kuwait,belgium,sweden and even non-industrial country like rwanda ha ha ha ha!SHAME,SHAME,SHAME! AND PROCLAIM TO BE A CHRISTIAN NATION...HA HA HA HA HA HA....SHAME ON THE SO-CALL PRO-LIFE CHRISTAIN CHURCH....WHO ONCE AGAIN RUN AND HIDE WHEN THERE IS A OPPORTUNE TIME......BUT AFTER THIS BLOWS OVER YOU WONT BE ABLE TO HEAR NOONE MOUTH BUT THE CHURCH TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY LOVE THE LORD.....the scripture says how can you love me whom you have not seen???????mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? maybe thats it ha ha ha hai never seen the lord and really dont know him......THE CHRISTIANS HAVE BECOME tingle cymbal and sounding brass ha ha ha ha

its about time.....this coutry is the biggest hypocrite the world have ever seen.....brags about it richest....and parasite off its own people.......thanks to political party as the butt kissing tea party.......who kisses the butts of the rich and greedy....and claim to have this raging anger....they are just fools for the koch brothers....just another arm of the gold water republican...who ideas was even backward for the early 60's

this is why the greedy dont want to talk about "private equity"....its america dirty secret......ha ha ha ha.....

June 29, 2012 at 3:11 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mickey: What have you done with the real Bulbous?

June 29, 2012 at 3:18 p.m.
MickeyRat said...

It's in my pants you dirty dirty little boy. Dinner first honey!

June 29, 2012 at 3:23 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Joneses: Clearly, you are a racist one per- center. You need to be de-programmed with several weeks of therapy. Treatment would include group singing of union songs, lectures from SEIU members, and maybe some workers of the world unite banners. Not to mention, studies in One Worldism, Che biographies, and a dash of Marxism. Finally, tactics in how to "stick it to the man!" Graduates will receive visualize world peace number stickers. The world has evolved man. Get in step.

June 29, 2012 at 3:28 p.m.
chet123 said...

Jones...thats all you ever have done ...sat on your sorrow ass!

June 29, 2012 at 3:33 p.m.
alprova said...

joneses wrote: "Calling you a liar means you are a liar."

Ah...but I am not a liar and I proved it by referring to the exact language in the final bill.

"You are nothing but a proponent of big government and the more they have control over our lives the better POSs like you think we will be."

Excuse me, but you're a total loon. I care not a whit what you think.

"Pathetic parasitic leeches like you might need to be controlled by the government as you probably lack the ability to run your own life you incompetent POS."

You're one miserable individual. You thrive on being discontent about anything and everything. May a thousand fleas infest your armpits and nibble you until you have an orgasm.

June 29, 2012 at 3:36 p.m.
chet123 said...

Jonese...you supported a fake like herman cain??????...what do that say about your judgement ha ha ha ha.....its make you a retard!

June 29, 2012 at 3:38 p.m.
alprova said...

FPPSE wrote: "Obamacare is definitely designed to destroy private health insurance companies."

I can't imagine by what stretch of the imagination that you or anyone else can arrive at such a conclusion, that by mandating that everyone avail themselves of a health care insurance policy, effectively handing them 50 million more customers, that it will "destroy" insurers.

June 29, 2012 at 3:41 p.m.
joneses said...

I removed this post so al will stop his pathetic whining.

June 29, 2012 at 3:44 p.m.
jesse said...

joneses is a certified mental case!

the discorse on here seems to spend a lot of time in the gutter!

btw: i flagged his 3:44 post! prob won't do any good,BUT you never know!

June 29, 2012 at 3:53 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Joneses: There seems to be a slight misunderstanding.

June 29, 2012 at 4:01 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Joneses,

You and your vocabulary (or lack of) are a complete failure. I truly pity anyone, especially your wife and children (if you have them), that has to put up with you on a regular basis. You are the epitome of ignorant. It's scary to think that there are people like you in this country.

I also feel that your opinions, while psychotic, must resonate to your friends Jack_Dennis, Tu_quoque, Toes, FPSE and others because they do not address you at all. It's a shame that even, seemingly, reasonable people that could be considered "on your side" do not call you down for your outlandish statements. Your statements are a shame on you and anyone associated with you on this site.

June 29, 2012 at 4:07 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy123 is the left's version of Joneses.

June 29, 2012 at 4:34 p.m.
joneses said...

tu_quoque

I removed the post because I wanted to and that is all the reason I need.

June 29, 2012 at 4:46 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Joneses,

First things first: I don't read your copy and paste propaganda.

I didn't vote for Obama.

This isn't a tax increase on anyone that has insurance or buys insurance/gets covered before 2014. And it most definitely isn't the largest in the history of this country. Only you and Rush Limbaugh believe that.

The economy was weakened by your daddy G. W. Bush.

"it has also been discovered that obastardcare will cost 1 trillion dollars more than obastard estimated."

That statement is a fabrication.

And the only person I see whining on here is you. But please keep going. I enjoy a good laugh. You have provided many laughs for me today.

June 29, 2012 at 4:50 p.m.

Easy123, yes, but the trolls probably take it as a point of pride. They certainly love wallowing in their self-destructive conduct. They can't even admit how everything they do is about getting votes.

Really, why are they so trying to stir up this tax outrage issue? Oh yes, to convince the rest of us to ignore what we are getting. Healthcare access and insurance.

Alprova, apparently in right-wing land, providers don't arise to fill a need. I wonder when that switch from believing in free market principles happened. I guess people just won't want to take the money for their labors. Oh well, then Vermont's model will just be implemented by other states. They are going single-payer now.

That or we'll have to develop more automated systems. There are computer-diagnostic systems that achieve great results. All we need is electronic records.

June 29, 2012 at 4:59 p.m.
MickeyRat said...

Why tu_quoque, what a self-important statement of unknowing. Do you know what album it came from Koalemos!

By what fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a desert rat, spinning in a circle, waiting for the bite of the snake?

Yours and Jonsies writing has to be a troll. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know. I'm sorry. I can't go on. This is an epiphany of stupid for me.

You are a fiends and cowards, and you make people turn away at your sight. You are un-additions, noxious and I believe slightly depraved. I feel dirty just for knowing you two exist. You and your girlfriend Jonsie are bloody nardless newbie twits, protohominid chromosomally aberrant caricatures of coprophagic cloacal parasitic pond scum and I wish you would go away. Or at least go back to your home island Lesbos.

Love, Mickey

June 29, 2012 at 5:01 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Youse guys are good for grins.

June 29, 2012 at 5:35 p.m.
shifarobe said...

Ya'll see the White House insisting it's not a TAX today? Guess they think we all forgot the news from yesterday!! TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX

June 29, 2012 at 5:44 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Shifarobe,

You forgot the part about the tax only being on people that aren't insured by 2014. You already pay taxes. TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES. What are you bitching about? Get insurance. or pay a small penalty. Good healthcare or nothing (for a small penalty). You pick.

June 29, 2012 at 5:49 p.m.
shifarobe said...

You can't spin this. That's just one issue. The taxes coming will be huge and will FALL HARD on the middle class. The WHOLE THING will be scrutinized and it will all be exposed for what is. THE BIGGEST TAX INCREASE OF ALL TIME. OBOOB couldn't care less who will carry the burden! He'll be well taken care of. Call your buddies at the White House and tell them it's official, ITS A TAX. COMMERCE CLAUSE argument failed. IT'S NOT A PENALTY. ITS A TAAXXXXXXXXXXX.

June 29, 2012 at 6:08 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Shifarobe,

I should have known to never try to reason with someone that is psychotic. Your daddy, Rush Limbaugh, is only adding fuel to the fire.

June 29, 2012 at 6:18 p.m.
moonpie said...

This bill fell well short of what I wanted. It's not the best law, but it's better than what we have.

I would think the conservative would have a moment of reflection and wonder if they are correct in their positions and beliefs if a conservative court said this was constitutional.

Nope. Didn't even see a moment of introspection.

I confess. I thought you conservatives had it.... but for all its flaws, we have something a smidge better than we had it before.

But it's just a smidge.

It's ironic that the idea conservatives are so outraged over what is actually a conservative idea.

Secretly, the insurance companies are laughing all the way to the bank........ force people to buy our product!!!

Whippeee!

If you didn't want to force people to buy a product, then you need to support a public option. But America didn't. This is not great law, but it's the law we, as a nation, demanded.

June 29, 2012 at 9:09 p.m.
moonpie said...

By the way.... this is a great cartoon! Another great cartoon. It's accurate.

June 29, 2012 at 9:10 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Easy needs to shut the fuc# up about this. Someone that doesn't work has no place applauding higher taxes for the working class. Mommy's basement should at least be cool down there.

June 29, 2012 at 10:18 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Not so fast, TOES: Easy is the Commandante of the Fryer Station.

June 29, 2012 at 10:27 p.m.
patriot1 said...

What's going on at TFP....is toon boy involved in this? http://www.newschannel9.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_1412.shtml

June 29, 2012 at 10:29 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Just ignore this law like Obama ignores the laws he don't agree with.

June 29, 2012 at 10:29 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Easy's hero: Spongebob Squarepants.

The funny thing is, the democrats think only the republicans lost.

I don't think they realize that democrats will get taxed just as much.

June 29, 2012 at 10:34 p.m.
shifarobe said...

I don't need Rush Limbaugh to tell me what's in Obamacare. I can read it myself! Which is more than i can for the morons in Congress who passed it. IT'S THE BIGGEST TAX INCREASE IN THE HISTORY OF THIS BIG OL' WORLD!! The TAXING has just begun. Obama always hated the middle class, now he's going to make em pay!

June 30, 2012 at 12:20 a.m.

Your hyperbole is the best argument against you actually having read the bill.

I will borrow from the Simpsons:

Homer: Woo-hoo! A perfect day. Zero bears and one big, fat, hair paycheck. Hey! How come my pay is so low?…Bear patrol tax?!? This is an outrage. It’s the biggest tax increase in history. Lisa: Actually, Dad, it’s the smallest tax increase in history. Homer: Let the bears pay the bear tax. I pay the Homer tax! Lisa: That’s the home-owner’s tax. Homer: Well, anyways, I’m still outraged.

July 1, 2012 at 1:35 a.m.
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