published Sunday, March 25th, 2012

Stand Your Ground

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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nucanuck said...

"After I followed and accosted him he tried to fight back so I had to shoot him in self-defense."

March 25, 2012 at 12:34 a.m.
Lr103 said...

tu_q said... On the Hispanic on Black or was it Black on Hispanic violence in Florida I guess ToonBoy had already drawn and submitted this toon before finding out there is an eyewitness to the events and he apparently supports the shooter’s version of the events. However you know them Libtards don’t want a crisis to go to waste. Damn the facts full speed ahead on the smearing of your opponents

Then there are several eyewitnesses, white and black, who dispute the shooter and lone eyewitness version. So who's telling the truth? The shooter with a lone eyewitness who was likely a member of this same self-appointed neighborhood watch group attempting to back a friend? Or the several witnesses who disputes their version? It will be interesting to see if this lone eyewitness is willing to chance perjurying himself under oath to save a friend or will he abandon ship?"

March 25, 2012 at 5:09 a.m.
joneses said...

I wish the Black people in this country would put just half the focus they are putting on Trayvon Martin on the black on black crime in this country. I promise you there is more injustice being allowed with the black on black crime.

March 25, 2012 at 6:10 a.m.
shoe_chucker said...

You hand in your ticket And you go watch the geek Who immediately walks up to you When he hears you speak And says, "How does it feel To be such a freak ?" And you say, "Impossible" As he hands you a bone.

And something is happening here But you don't know what it is Do you, Mister Jones ?

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/bob+dylan/ballad+of+a+thin+man_20021423.html

March 25, 2012 at 7:46 a.m.
davisss13 said...

tu_quoque said... I only saw this rag cover one example of someone supposedly not getting to vote.

Then you intentionally ignored every example of elderly people having their vote STOLEN by Republicans that has been posted here. Of course, I wouldn't expect a party of cheats to admit anything.

First the lie:

Despite A 0.0002 Percent Rate Of Voter Fraud, Reince Priebus Claims Wisconsin Is ‘Riddled With Voter Fraud’

PRIEBUS: Well listen, I don’t want to get into the specifics here, but let me tell you something. I come from a state in Wisconsin that was absolutely riddled with voter fraud, okay?

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/12/02/381172/reince-priebus-voter-fraud/

Then the consequences:

93-Year-Old Tennessee Woman Who Cleaned State Capitol For 30 Years Denied Voter ID

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/12/26/395287/93-year-old-tennessee-woman-who-cleaned-state-capitol-for-30-years-denied-voter-id/

91-YEAR-OLD TENNESSEE WOMAN CAN’T VOTE BECAUSE SHE CAN’T STAND IN LINE FOR HOURS

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10/24/351422/91-year-old-tennessee-woman-cant-vote-because-she-cant-stand-in-line-for-hours/

96-year-old Chattanooga resident denied voting ID

Now before you tell me that IDs are free you need to see the OTHER part of issuing IDs plan that Republicans will NOT TELL YOU. They will intentionally sabotage that effort as well as they are sabotaging the vote.

WISCONSIN STATE WORKER FIRED AFTER TELLING COWORKERS ABOUT CONTROVERSIAL VOTER ID POLICY | Chris Larsen, a mail room worker for the Wisconsin Department of Safety and Professional Services, was fired Thursday after sending an email to his coworkers alerting them to a memo circulated by the Department of Transportation that instructed DOT workers not to tell the public about free vote-only IDs, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports. An executive assistant in the Department of Safety and Professional Services confirmed the firing and said it is currently under review. Wisconsin’s new voter ID law allows those without identification to obtain a free vote-only ID, but if applicants don’t ask for it specifically, they are charged the normal driver’s license fee of $28. Larsen’s email instructed his coworkers “to tell anyone you know” about the free version of the ID. Larsen said he was told he was fired for “inappropriate email usage” and called his firing “insane.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/09/09/315310/wisconsin-state-worker-fired-after-telling-coworkers-about-controversial-voter-id-policy/

There's your morals and values and ethics for ya.

Who would gladly steal the vote of an elderly person? A Republican, that's who.

Patriots my ass.

March 25, 2012 at 8:01 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

davisss: Dems wrote the book on voter fraud. A well known fact.

March 25, 2012 at 8:03 a.m.
shoe_chucker said...

UNAWARE OF THE CONTRADICTION.... There's an old joke that goes something like this: my neighbor went to public schools before joining the military. He went to college on the G.I. Bill, bought his first home through the FHA, and received his health care through the V.A. and Medicare. He now receives Social Security.

He's a conservative because he wants to get the government off his back.

I mention the joke because a surprising number of right-wing activists don't seem to appreciate the humor. We talked the other day, for example, about a radical libertarian activist who encourages his allies to throw bricks through the windows of Democratic offices to protest the Affordable Care Act. He hates government involvement in the lives of citizens -- but his main income is taxpayer-financed disability checks sent to him every month by the federal government.

This is not uncommon. The NYT reports today on some of the well-intention folks who've been caught up in the Tea Party nonsense. Take Tom Grimes, for example.

In the last year, he has organized a local group and a  statewide coalition, and even started a "bus czar" Web site to marshal  protesters to Washington on short notice. This month, he mobilized 200  other Tea Party activists to go to the local office of the same  congressman to protest what he sees as the government's takeover of  health care. [...]

"If you quit giving people that stuff, they would figure out how  to do it on their own," Mr. Grimes said.

When Grimes lost his job 15 months ago, one of his first steps was contacting his congressman about available programs that might give him access to government health care. He receives Social Security, and is considering a job opening at the Census Bureau. But in the meantime, Grimes has filled the back seat of his Mercury Grand Marquis with literature decrying government aid to struggling Americans.

http://open.salon.com/blog/chauncey_devega/2010/03/29/cognitive_dissonance_and_the_tea_bagger_phenomenon

And something is happening here But you don't know what it is Do you, Mister Jones ?

March 25, 2012 at 8:07 a.m.
davisss13 said...

Yo jack, the days of dead voters on the rolls are long gone.

The thing is you phony GD degenerates will wear your tri-corner hats wave your flags acting like patriots yet you are perfectly willing to erect obstacles to voting to make it harder for the most vulnerable among us to vote. Funny how the only people targeted are those that tend to vote dem.

Minorities, elderly and the poor.

By the way jack, since when does 7 out of 5,000,000 votes qualify as 'riddled with voter fraud' like your lying spokesman Reince Priebus claimed?

You people are frauds, cheats and you are trying to skew the election using disenfranchising. That isn't ethical, moral or patriotic. But very Republican.

Lee Atwater would be proud.

March 25, 2012 at 8:14 a.m.
riverman said...

What the little guy with crayons who graduated from the directional school in Alabama doesn't mention is that Zimmerman is a Democrat.

March 25, 2012 at 8:39 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

davisssssss: You are one bitter, mean spirited poster. Name calling necessary? Sheesh.

March 25, 2012 at 8:46 a.m.
01centare said...

joneses said... I wish the Black people in this country would put just half the focus they are putting on Trayvon Martin on the black on black crime in this country. I promise you there is more injustice being allowed with the black on black crime.


The above observation could be just as well said for white people. As white on white crimes are astronimcal in this country. Especially in cases of murder-suicides, infanticide, serial killings and mass murders etc.

March 25, 2012 at 8:50 a.m.

Davisss, you have never been to Chicago or other places where it's common for dead people to somehow manage to vote. From what I've read it's almost always in areas dominated by Democrats.

I don't understand Bennett's point on this cartoon. Why does he feel it's necessary to connect this incident with photo ID.

The facts are not all in on this case and the grand jury hasn't met yet. The man is hispanic, a Democrat and is part of a mixed race family. So if Blacks are "under attack in this country", who are the attackers, hispanic Democrats who come from mixed race families?

I think Democrats thougth they could run with this, but the facts are not helping them.

March 25, 2012 at 9:09 a.m.
davisss13 said...

Jack_Dennis said... davisssssss: You are one bitter, mean spirited poster. Name calling necessary? Sheesh.

lol. That's rich. After what the GOPers have done day in day out for a DECADE you want to cry? OK. Go for it.

March 25, 2012 at 9:14 a.m.
davisss13 said...

blondebutnotdumb said... Davisss, you have never been to Chicago or other places where it's common for dead people to somehow manage to vote. From what I've read it's almost always in areas dominated by Democrats.

That is ancient history. You can't keep beating this dead horse when it's no longer applicable. IT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN ANYMORE.

But it does make a real cool excuse to steal votes of vulnerable people TODAY.

From what I've read the disenfranchisement, aka, stealing votes is almost always in areas dominated by Democrats.

Coincidence?

March 25, 2012 at 9:19 a.m.
davisss13 said...

I don't understand Bennett's point on this cartoon. Why does he feel it's necessary to connect this incident with photo ID.

Really? The idiot is out searching for a cure for a problem that does not exist. The kid was harmless. There is no voter fraud to justify the overwhelmingly heavy-handed response shown by Republican's voter fraud legislation. The end result is much worse than the actual problem.

March 25, 2012 at 9:21 a.m.
Salsa said...

Democrats feel threatened by voter ID laws because the dead will no longer be able to vote for their candidates.

March 25, 2012 at 9:24 a.m.
rick1 said...

Even liberal Justice John Paul Stevens agrees with voter ID laws. Below is what he wrote for the majority in the Indiana Vote ID case.

Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, 553 U.S. 181 (2008) was a United States Supreme Court case holding that an Indiana law requiring voters to provide photo IDs did not violate the Constitution of the United States In a 6-3 decision in 2008, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the photo ID requirement, finding it closely related to Indiana's legitimate state interest in preventing voter fraud, modernizing elections, and safeguarding voter confidence.

Justice John Paul Stevens, in the leading opinion, stated that the burdens placed on voters are limited to a small percentage of the population, and were offset by the state's interest in reducing fraud. Stevens wrote in the majority:

"The relevant burdens here are those imposed on eligible voters who lack photo identification cards that comply with SEA 483.[2] Because Indiana’s cards are free, the inconvenience of going to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, gathering required documents, and posing for a photograph does not qualify as a substantial burden on most voters’ right to vote, or represent a significant increase over the usual burdens of voting. The severity of the somewhat heavier burden that may be placed on a limited number of persons—e.g., elderly persons born out-of-state, who may have difficulty obtaining a birth certificate—is mitigated by the fact that eligible voters without photo identification may cast provisional ballots that will be counted if they execute the required affidavit at the circuit court clerk’s office. Even assuming that the burden may not be justified as to a few voters, that conclusion is by no means sufficient to establish petitioners’ right to the relief they seek."

March 25, 2012 at 9:24 a.m.
riverman said...

Hey Davis, I will admit it, the Voter ID Law is designed to keep the poor and stupid(Democrats) from voting.

March 25, 2012 at 9:26 a.m.

Sorry, Daviss, you're dead wrong, no pun intended.

Photo ID is logical, it's common sense and it's not difficult to get a free ID. You need an photo ID for so many things, this is no brainer.

What does photo ID have to with the issue Florida. This cartoonist is really reaching.

March 25, 2012 at 9:26 a.m.
MTJohn said...

riverman said...

What the little guy with crayons who graduated from the directional school in Alabama doesn't mention is that Zimmerman is a Democrat.

So what?

March 25, 2012 at 9:28 a.m.
MTJohn said...

01centare said...The above observation could be just as well said for white people. As white on white crimes are astronimcal in this country. Especially in cases of murder-suicides, infanticide, serial killings and mass murders etc.

not to mention the white on everybody crimes of grand larceny that triggered the current recession.

March 25, 2012 at 9:30 a.m.
MTJohn said...

blondebutnotdumb said...I don't understand Bennett's point on this cartoon. Why does he feel it's necessary to connect this incident with photo ID.

Republican's leveraging baseless paranoia for political advantage.

March 25, 2012 at 9:32 a.m.

Lame. Cheap shot. Partisan exploitation of tragic injustice. Desperate pitch for more web hits (= pay bonus). Media-tried court cases, crooked cops, gangs, and redneck vigilante-justice are essentially based on the same principle: egotistical lawlessness.

Want to feel threatened? Ask for a Republican ballot in a majority-Democrat precinct.

Most EVERY majority-Democrat precinct here does it. I’ve witnessed it numerous times firsthand. Tired of Democrats lying to protect the Chicago machine. Or locally, the Crutchfield machine. (After his imprisonment, the GOP has had a fighting chance in this city). Studies confirm that dead voter rolls are still pervasive. I guess it’s back to the days of Bookie Turner. Now THOSE were days when Democrats could win rack up with some state and local elections around here.

Lame. Baseless. Inflammatory. Missed opportunity to address the serious problems of racial-profiling and vigilante-justice. Classic Bennett. Slowing down to give hitchhikers a lift back to 1976.

March 25, 2012 at 9:33 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Nucanuck said: "After I followed and accosted him he tried to fight back so I had to shoot him in self-defense."

Yes, everything about this incident is off centered, including the response by Florida’s law enforcement. Wonder if this is a start of something new?

“Imagine this scenario: a man shoots and kills someone. He tells the police he was temporarily insane at the time. So they say "OK you can go home and take your gun with you," because they can't contradict his claim of insanity at the time of the killing. Ridiculous?

Yes, but according to CNN: "Police say they have not charged Zimmerman because they have no evidence to contradict his story that he shot in self-defense." Am I missing something here? The only evidence of self-defense comes from the person who shot the victim. Doesn't he have a motive to lie? Isn't his credibility an issue? Aren't there surrounding circumstances that place the claim of self-defense in dispute?

What is undisputed is that George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. Whether or not there is a valid defense to that shooting is not a determination to be made by police -- particularly when based solely on the word of the shooter."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/judge-h-lee-sarokin/george-zimmerman-self-defense_b_1374135.html?ref=politics&ir=Politics

March 25, 2012 at 10:15 a.m.

Whoa, whoa. Paranoia? Look at how Democrats have jumped on this without all the facts being in. Jesse Jackson's ridiculous claim that blacks are under attack in this country after this incident is the height of paranoia.

Under attack by what group? How does this shooting lead to that conclusion?

This clearly an attempt by Democrats to politicize this. What's that's called, projection? You're accusing the Republicans of what Democrats are guilty of.

I don't see how Republicans can gain from this? I have no idea what this has to do with voter ID. I think Mr. Bennett just laid an egg with this cartoon.

March 25, 2012 at 10:40 a.m.

Nooga, that's an idiotic post. The facts are not all in.

Where were you Democrats when a black teenager from Chicago, I'm pretty sure it was, and an A student, who never hurt anyone in his life, was hit in the head over and over with a wooden board by other black teenagers because he wouldn't join a gang?

I didn't hear Obama saying, if I had a son he would look like him.

I think Democrats are quite hypocritical and need to do some soul searching. They're showing their true colors with this shooting.

You need to wait for the facts to come in.

March 25, 2012 at 10:51 a.m.
01centare said...

Not only that, mountainlaurel, it places the responsibility to prove him/herself innocent directly on the shoulders of the dead victim. Wonder if these same people coming out swinging on behalf of Zimmerman would be swinging if his last name happened to be Gonzalez or Martinez? (see the real race card being played out there?). They'd be the same ship'em back to crowd that's come out in the past. Especially when the victim had a last name like Zimmerman and the perp had a last name like Gonzalez. They'd be calling for even more stiffer immigration laws. Someone stated recently, "zimmerman was happy to be presumed white until the hate crime evidence began to crop up and stack against him. it takes things to a whole new level if one is found guilty. i have a strong feeling that if zimmerman's last name were ramirez, those cops would have put another body in the morgue that night (instead of standing around smoking cigarettes with Zimmerman and shooting the breeze, as been alleged). you just cannot separate these racial elements out of the story."

Even well trained with years of experience law enforcement person aren't given the latitude to shoot and kill someone without an investigation that Zimmerman was given. Using the Florida's so-called STAND YOUR GROUND law. Even when the perp is caught red handed and a cop shoots. There's still a suspension, even if with pay. Pending the outcome of an I.A. investigation. The cop is likely to have a psychological evaluation. And in many cases, his/her service weapon is taken away. Even if for their own safety. As cops have been known to commit suicided after a shooting or even go postal. Sanford police did none of the above in the Zimmerman shooting. Someone with a history of violence, even domestic violence and aggressive behavior.

March 25, 2012 at 10:52 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

JonRoss said: "I didn't know Hispanics were preventing Blacks from voting. Thanks for clarifying that for us Clay."

I believe you’re missing the point, JR. Like Voter ID Laws, Florida’s license to kill law is yet another destructive model of legislation brought to us by right wingers and the shadowy Koch brother’s American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).

"The “Stand Your Ground” legislation was sponsored by Florida state Representative Dennis Baxley and state Senator Durell Peadon, both Republican ally of Jeb Bush.

The governor quickly signed the measure into law—despite explicit and repeated warnings that this law would encourage shootings of innocents like Trayvon Martin. And despite explicit and repeated warnings that people of color and young people would be unreasonably and disproportionately harmed by the law. . .

. . . In states across the country, with support from the gun lobby, ALEC’s model legislation—sometimes in mirror form, sometimes with modest alterations—has been enacted over the years since Peadon and Bush dismissed the warning by Florida state Senator Steve Geller that the “Stand Your Ground” law ran the risk of encouraging Floridians to think that “you ought to be able to kill people that are walking toward you on the street because of this subjective belief that you’re worried that they may get in a fight with you.” . . .

In those states, as in Florida, the number of so-called “justifiable homicides” is on the rise. Florida Department of Law Enforcement suggests that the number of justifiable homicides in the state have tripled since Jeb Bush signed the “Stand Your Ground” law.

Why? Former US Attorney Kendall Coffey tells NBC, “The ‘Stand Your Ground’ law is a license to kill.”

“The ‘Stand Your Ground’ law has become a huge obstacle to preventing exactly this kind of self-appointed vigilantism—this kind of vigilante justice,” says the veteran federal prosecutor. “It used to be if you shot somebody in quote-unquote ‘self-defense,’ you were protected. But in 2005, Florida decided to become the pioneering state to extend this kind of self-protection to wherever the heck you go…”

Florida, under Jeb Bush, was the pioneer. But, now, thanks to the American Legislative Exchange Council, it is just one of many states that offers gunmen that license to kill."

http://www.thenation.com/blog/166978/how-alec-took-floridas-license-kill-law-national

March 25, 2012 at 10:56 a.m.
01centare said...

Thanks mountainlaurel. I believe there are 20 states with this license to murder STAND YOUR GROUND LAW. I know of at least five of them: Florida (of course), Georgia, Utah, Tennessee and Texas. The others shouldn't be at all difficult to figure out.

The law actually provides that if a citizen so much as accidently bumps into a citizen coming out of say, Wal-Mart, K-Mart or just innocently walking down a sidewalk after leaving a convenience store that citizen can basically say they felt threaten and use deadly force. Why the rest of the world looks at America, no longer as the beacon of hope, but the land of fear, doom and dread.

March 25, 2012 at 11:09 a.m.
shifarobe said...

REPEAT AFTER ME LIBERALS, the shooter was not white, the shooter was not white, the shooter was not white. The shooter was a Democrat, the shooter was a Democrat, the shooter was a Democrat, the shooter comes from a mixed race family, the shooter comes from a mixed race family, the shooter comes from a mixed race family.

March 25, 2012 at 11:22 a.m.
EaTn said...

The more I look at this cartoon the more it reminds me of all the right-wingers strutting around my neck of the woods with their cargo pants weighted down with heat just drooling for the chance to do a little target practice.

March 25, 2012 at 11:36 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

WHY NOT JUST OWN IT?

Nationally, republicans did a great job at the State level in passing Voter ID Laws to prevent millions of democrat voters from casting ballots. Republicans saw a legal opening and they seized it. Democrats try to skewer elections in their favor too, when they can. This might be more blatant, and it could swing a few elections in November.

Just like it was designed to do.

Voter ID laws will be challenged for their Constitutionality, it's still a win/win for the GOP.

If the Law is overturned republicans can get furious and jump up and down and rail about 'activist judges.'

If the Law is upheld they get to steal a few elections fair and square.

Why are all you tea bagging right wing nut jobs spending ANY time denying it? You pulled off a politically astute manuever that might actually enable you to retake the White House and Senate and hang on to the House. TIme again republicans refuse to take credit for hard fought political accomplishments.

For once, why not just own it?

March 25, 2012 at 11:38 a.m.
acerigger said...

Why aren't the conservatives arguing that Trayvon Martin should have been armed?

Ain't that the noise you usually hear after a shooting?

March 25, 2012 at 11:41 a.m.
shifarobe said...

HEY BENNETT, you tool, why not a cartoon about Keoshia Ford??? The 6th grader still in a coma after being caught in a crossfire between two black gangs here in Chattanooga. WHY DOESN'T THAT HORSE'S ASS AL SHARPTON AND JESSE JACKASS COME DOWN HERE AND SPEAK UP FOR HER????? WHY DOESN'T OBUTTHEAD SAY IF I HAD ANOTHER DAUGHTER SHE WOULD LOOK LIKE KEOSHIA! You know why, it won't get any headlines and he can't from it politically!!! YOU LIBERALS SUCK! YOU'RE HYPOCRITES AND OPPORTUNISTS.

March 25, 2012 at 11:51 a.m.
shifarobe said...

HEADLINE: HISPANIC DEMOCRAT FROM MIXED RACED FAMILY SHOOTS BLACK TEEN. EXTRA, EXTRA, READ ALL ABOUT IT!! How disapointed OBOOB Was when he found out the dude was not a white boy!!! LOL

March 25, 2012 at 12:07 p.m.
hambone said...

So many of the righteous (or self-righteous) observe the sabbath by posting their hate!

March 25, 2012 at 12:53 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

01centare said: "The law actually provides that if a citizen so much as accidently bumps into a citizen coming out of say, Wal-Mart, K-Mart or just innocently walking down a sidewalk after leaving a convenience store that citizen can basically say they felt threaten and use deadly force. Why the rest of the world looks at America, no longer as the beacon of hope, but the land of fear, doom and dread."

Yes, I certainly agree, 01centare. I also suspect it’s only a matter of time before some of these street gangs catch up on these new “Stand Your Ground” laws sponsored by our friendly neighborhood Republicans. Indeed, the gangs just like self appointed vigilantes will soon be claiming that they only shot because they were acting in self-defense.

March 25, 2012 at 12:54 p.m.
shifarobe said...

NO, NO , NO. Liberals automatically label anyone who is a Republican or a Conservative as a racist. It AIN'T going to work. DEMOCRATS ARE THE PARTY OF DIVISION, BLACK-AMERICANS, HISPANIC-AMERICANS, GAY-AMERICANS, ASIAN-AMERICANS. NO, MORONS, JUST AMERICANS! HEY, HAMHEAD, HATE IS WHAT DRIVES YOUR COMMENTS ON HERE. HATE FOR ANYONE WHO DARES TO BE ANYTHING BUT A DEMOCRAT. DEMOCRATS DON'T LIKE BLACKS, THEY ONLY TOLERATE THEM. THEY WANT THEM WEAK, VULNERABLE AND POOR. THEY WANT TO CONTROL THEM. BLACK ON BLACK CRIME ISN'T AS HOT A TOPIC TO THEM AS HOMEMADE SCHOOL LUNCHES ARE. THAT SUMS IT UP.

March 25, 2012 at 1:15 p.m.
EaTn said...

Many of these gated communities in Florida better start checking their liability insurance because cases like this one will soon make more ghost communities than already exists in the state.

March 25, 2012 at 1:16 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

The dems have done more to undermine minority development than any other political faction. Hypocrisy doesn't even begin to describe it.

March 25, 2012 at 1:46 p.m.
01centare said...

mountainlaurel said... 01centare said: "The law actually provides that if a citizen so much as accidently bumps into a citizen coming out of say, Wal-Mart, K-Mart or just innocently walking down a sidewalk after leaving a convenience store that citizen can basically say they felt threaten and use deadly force. Why the rest of the world looks at America, no longer as the beacon of hope, but the land of fear, doom and dread."

Yes, I certainly agree, 01centare. I also suspect it’s only a matter of time before some of these street gangs catch up on these new “Stand Your Ground” laws sponsored by our friendly neighborhood Republicans. Indeed, the gangs just like self appointed vigilantes will soon be claiming that they only shot because they were acting in self-defense

You know, mountainlaurel, a group of friends and I were just sitting around yesterday discussing the very same thing.Why it's only a matter of time before some gang banger or some other criminal element attempts to use the same defense.

March 25, 2012 at 2:06 p.m.
prairie_dog said...

Say anything you want about the tragic shooting; all you have to do is read the local paper, or watch the news, and it's easy to see who is doing the shooting.

The community has to rise up and change the way people act. The community cannot allow violence to endure and then not expect people to react to a perceived threat.

Failing to deal with violence at the source only allows more of it to go on. People will certainly die trying to change the way others in the community act, but what has it gotten us to allow it to go on? Dead kids, wounded kids, poverty and wasted lives.

It's time for the entire community to come together and act together to stop the crime and violence. It starts at birth. It will take a generation. It has to be done.

March 25, 2012 at 2:10 p.m.
01centare said...

tu_quoque said... Why don’t you give some proof of these other eyewitnesses and their versions of what happened or this just some more of your usual B.S. that popped into your delusional and diseased brain? The eyewitness I referred to has already placed himself at risk of criminal charges by giving a statement to police. If he is shown to have lied to them he will be in legal jeopardy … so yes he was willing to take a “chance”.

So, for at least a brief moment, Trayvon Martin was able to fight off a potential kidnapper or predator he thought was trying to harm him? Either way, the only one who could claim self defense is Trayvon Martin if he'd survived.

A retired "white" teacher has already come forward to say she initially told the police she heard what sounded like the cries of a child crying out for help. The police, however, corrected her and told her those were the cries of Zimmerman and not Trayvon. And that's what he proceeded to place in his report.

March 25, 2012 at 2:12 p.m.
01centare said...

acerigger said... Why aren't the conservatives arguing that Trayvon Martin should have been armed?

Glad you brought that up, ace. My friends and I were discussing the same thing. We could hear them as we talked, "If Tryavon had only been armed with his own weapon, he could have possibly fought off what he preceived to be a would be attacker or kidnapper."

March 25, 2012 at 2:20 p.m.
acerigger said...

The gangbangers have already caught on to this "stand your ground" law,there have already been cases where this defense has been used to "justify" killing each other or an innocent bystander 'cause they felt "threatened"(google it!)

March 25, 2012 at 2:32 p.m.
acerigger said...

tu_quoque said..."Because Conservatives, unlike you ignorant Libtards, understand the law and the need for responsible behavior."

So,stalking someone,confronting them,then shooting them is "responsible behavior"?

March 25, 2012 at 2:58 p.m.
dude_abides said...

tu_lonely said... "Because Conservatives, unlike you ignorant Libtards, understand the law and the need for responsible behavior. At 17 years old it is illegal to carry a gun and also at that age it would be irresponsible."

So, in your opinion, it was just, on balance, that this child was killed. He should not have a gun, Zimmerman was legally packing, Zimmerman felt threatened, child just fell through the crack in the law. The kid should have been older, then he could carry a gun and, upon feeling threatened, open fire. You mentioned preteens in your household once. Better throw their hoodies away! Do any of them look like Obama?

March 25, 2012 at 3:50 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Never let a crisis go to waste. Right ?? -tu_

Nor fail to drum up one (i.e. need for voter i.d.) to further erode minority political representation.

March 25, 2012 at 4:29 p.m.
acerigger said...

tu_quoque said.."I see that you want to continue the Libtards racist theme that minority populations are just too ignorant and lazy to meet the demands of a simple requirement like acquiring a photo I.D."

Maybe you can back that statement up too? Give some specific quotes,a link to some example of your claim?

March 25, 2012 at 4:51 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Why does tu_ continue to use the -tard suffix, when a fellow poster asked, very politely, that all refrain from this practice, as it was personally hurtful?

Oh! I think I see your logic, now. Any time you want to help someone, you are insulting them! How did I miss that before? So, any advice you ever give a loved one proves you think they are stupid! Your kids, therefore, better figure out that they need to somehow get the right to vote, pass laws that allow them to carry guns, and then carry a weapon... all without your insulting them by telling them so.

March 25, 2012 at 4:58 p.m.
acerigger said...

dude_abides,re.your post @4:58pm,attacking the messenger,giving insulting "pet names" to other posters,nit-picking a word or term used,are signs of a person without much of an argument to begin with.

March 25, 2012 at 5:15 p.m.
dude_abides said...

ace... yes. I have to admit I'm guilty of some of those very things. I do think that we could back off of certain terms that are personally hurtful, especially when someone asks us to.

March 25, 2012 at 5:31 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Clay must have a bug up his a$$ about voter ID. Enough already. I'm from Wisconsin and ID's are free. Just think of this issue like this; If everyone had an ID the world opens up more for them. Think of the things they can do with an ID card. Travel, check into a hotel, get a passport, rent movies, cash checks, get their winnings at the casino Etc. Using common sense does that sound like a plan that the conservatives have to keep people down? The libs are the ones keeping people down and making them believe that they are victims. Don't the libs want people to have a better life with more opportunities available to them?

March 25, 2012 at 5:40 p.m.
rick1 said...

When the Muslim shot and killed the unarmed soldiers at Ft. Hood, Obama said we had to get the facts before we jump to conclusions.

When Obama saw what appeared to be a white on black crime he is quick to jump in before he has the facts.

Obama is no different then Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakan, and the New Black Panthers. He is a race whore.

March 25, 2012 at 6:02 p.m.
dude_abides said...

"Seems I've heard that B.S. many times before. But people who buy into such drivel always wind up getting sucker punched." -tu_

No tu_quoque, we're not like the guys that have used you in the past. That would be the guys you're in bed with ideologically.

March 25, 2012 at 6:02 p.m.
ricardo said...

Obama never called for the immediate execution of Zimmerman. He simply said that the boy's death was a tragedy and that it needs to be investigated.

March 25, 2012 at 6:17 p.m.
Lr103 said...

rick1 said... When the Muslim shot and killed the unarmed soldiers at Ft. Hood, Obama said we had to get the facts before we jump to conclusions. When Obama saw what appeared to be a white on black crime he is quick to jump in before he has the facts. Obama is no different then Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakan, and the New Black Panthers. He is a race whore.

We all realize it is difficult for you to refer to President Obama as PRESIDENT. After all, you're obviously a product of poor self-esteem. However, he is the PRESIDENT of this GREAT NATION. Lay aside your racist bigotry and show some respect!

Now, on your other claims and accusations. As usual you, desperate Newt old boy and those faux puppets couldn't wait to pounce on the president. However, if you'd taken time to actually read what he fully said, rather than being spoon fed his words from somewhere with an agenda, you'd know he showed the compassion and concern this tragedy deserved. He didn't take any sides. He didn't make any accusations. In fact, it's hypocritical that you'd mention what President Obama said and not what Mitt Romney and Santorum said about the tragedy. Which was much more deeper in thought that that of the president. I must say, this is one of the very few times I was proud of someone from the Republican side. Both Presidential candidates Mitt Romney and Santorum. They deserve much credit for their response when asked. Just like the president. Now, why don't you take off that white sheet and pointed cap for a few seconds and do the same? Go ahead! See just how refreshing it can be to let all that pent up racial hatred go that you have directed towards the president.

March 25, 2012 at 6:25 p.m.
Lr103 said...

BobMKE said... Clay must have a bug up his a$$ about voter ID. Enough already. I'm from Wisconsin and ID's are free. Just think of this issue like this; If everyone had an ID the world opens up more for them

  1. IDs aren' free in Tennessee. They were only free for a short period and to certain age groups. That was only for a short time because of the uproar and problems the law was causing primarily the elderly.

  2. The world might open up, but only for a short while. Because then Tennessee will likely start making laws that people will only be able to obtain a government ID if they don't have a criminal record. Pretty much the way they've become to basically routinely suspend drivers' license for minor traffic infractions and unpaid court fines.

  3. If they really wanted this to work for everyone, they'd accept any pictured ID. They won't. They only accept certain types of pictured IDs. Example: They'd be willing to accept a Western Union pictured ID. If a Western Union pictured ID is good enough to cash a check, why not vote? hmmmmmm

March 25, 2012 at 6:43 p.m.
rick1 said...

ricardo, he brought race into it when he said "I think about this boy, I think about my own kids."

Martin's parents said this about Obama's statements. "The president's personal comments touched us deeply and made us wonder: If his son looked like Trayvon and wore a hoodie, would he be suspicious too?"

Did Obama call the parents of the 13 white boy who was doused with gasoline and burned alive by the black kids in Kansas City?

He jumped on this because of all the media attention.

March 25, 2012 at 6:49 p.m.
rick1 said...

Lr103 said: We all realize it is difficult for you to refer to President Obama as PRESIDENT. After all, you're obviously a product of poor self-esteem. However, he is the PRESIDENT of this GREAT NATION. Lay aside your racist bigotry and show some respect!

Since I did not refer to Obama as President Obama, I'm some how a product of poor self-esteem and I'm a racist bigot. Since you can not defend Obama you attack and play the race card and call names. Talk about poor self-esteem. Why don't you grow up.

As I said to ricardo, Obama brought race into it when he said "I think about this boy, I think about my own kids."

Why didn't Obama call the parents of the 13 white boy who was doused with gasoline and burned alive by the black kids in Kansas City?

March 25, 2012 at 7 p.m.
LaughingBoy said...

Where is the outrage from the president, from NBA stars, from rappers, from movie stars, from Sharpton and Jackson? It's the first I've heard of it from the comment above.

http://www.selwynduke.com/

The boy raised his hand, eager to answer the question. “What would you know about it?” exclaimed the teacher dismissively. “You’re not our race.”

This was not dialogue from a Hollywood movie. According to a woman named Melissa Coon, it was what a teacher at East High School in Kansas City, MO, told her 13-year-old son, Allen, when he attempted to answer a question during Black History Month. Coon identifies that teacher as Mrs. Karla Dorsey, who is black; Allen is white. As has already been reported, Allen was a victim of a vicious racial attack last week in which two older black teens doused him with gasoline and set him alight, saying “This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.” Not surprisingly, Coon has pulled her son out of East High and, concerned about further racial violence, intends to leave the K.C. area.

While this crime is making headlines, Coon states that it was merely the horrible culmination of continual racial harassment her son had to endure at East High. Moreover, after conducting an investigation that included extensive interviews with parents and students, I’ve learned that Coon’s son is not alone. Other white students also report a pattern of racial harassment at the high school at the hands of their peers – and, shockingly, their teachers.

March 25, 2012 at 7:31 p.m.
Lr103 said...

rick1 said... As I said to ricardo, Obama brought race into it when he said "I think about this boy, I think about my own kids."

What's racist" about that statement. He was speaking as a parent. Not as an African-American parent, but a concerned* parent. See, how you show your racism and bigotry? And even you don't realize it?

Without your choice of soundbite, this is what he fully said in reference to your partial sentence. This actually comes from a Hispanic online magazine where they're showing concern, compassion and support too: "And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And, you know, I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this and that everybody pulls together -- federal, state and local -- to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened."

What's "racist" about the above, rick1? The president, like Romney and Santorum, simply responded compassionately to a tragic event when asked. Why make a miration out of that?

March 25, 2012 at 7:36 p.m.
Lr103 said...

Keep digging, laughingboy. Surely, you can find something else. If all happened as you and the story states, it is indeed another tragedy compounded. And yes, it needs to be addressed as possible hate crime. That teacher should be fired, investigated and prosecuted if any of this is true. However, to exploit one tragedy just to drive home a point is yet another tragedy compounded. It's not as if you're showing compassion towards Mrs. Coon or her child, you're just trying to prove who's the biggest racist. You're sad.

March 25, 2012 at 7:48 p.m.
Lr103 said...

LaughingBoy said... 13-year-old in Kansas City. Where is the outrage from the president?

Is it possible the president doesn't KNOW about it? dah!! Why don't you, that parent, the reporters who reported this story contact the Justice Dept.? The president himself, if necessary? You know the Justice Dept., the federal government doesn't get involved unless contacted don't you? Shame on you! For exploiting this tragedy because you're so filled with racial hatred and bigotry! What God do you worship? Certainly not the Christian God. Satan, maybe, but certainly not Jesus Christ and God the FATHER.

March 25, 2012 at 7:52 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Tu_quo_que said: "OMG ... What has this nation come to !! Now we find out that the police can not charge you with a crime if they have no evidence that you committed a crime. Next thing you know people will be claiming that they are innocent until they are proven guilty ... with actual facts no less."

Apparently, the kind of lawless nation where a kid can be shot and killed on the street without any evidence that he had committed a crime. . . . . As for the concept of being considered innocent until proven guilty, it’s rather obvious the shooter in this case doesn’t believe in this particular concept, Tu_quo_que. If shooter had believed in the concept, he would have given the kid the opportunity to prove his innocence before his execution.

March 25, 2012 at 7:56 p.m.
LaughingBoy said...

Yes, you have to dig to find details on this story as it's the first I've heard of it. Nothing on any "mainstream" news site and certainly nothing on the 6:30 news or CNN.

Yes, the president probably has not heard of it. See paragraph #1. That's my point.

No, I'm "outraged and enraged" as one of the comments on the story put it, and I'd have been if it was two white teens setting a black teen on fire. The difference is there would have been 24-hour coverage of it.

Your other points, I have no clue where you were going so I can't comment on it.

March 25, 2012 at 8:03 p.m.
Lr103 said...

LaughingBoy, the Martin tragedy sat local for several weeks too. Meant to remain local. That is, after the Sanford police decided to close the case, declare it self-defense. Then the parents took the initiative, after trying to seek justice locally, and took the story beyond the local media. These parents can and should do the same. The BIG DIFFERENCE in the case you're trying to exploit is the police aren't trying to make it a case of self defense in favor of the perp. Nor did they sit around smoking cigarettes and talking shop with a potential homicide criminal. There's a big difference in the two cases. The Martin case would have remained local too and the rest of the nation and world would have known nothing about it if the Sanford police had actually done their jobs by serving ALL citizens of that Florida town.

The rest about the school situation, I can't understand why the parents didn't go to the school board and contact an attorney. Unless there's more to the story.

No, I'm "outraged and enraged" as one of the comments on the story put it, and I'd have been if it was two white teens setting a black teen on fire. The difference is there would have been 24-hour coverage of it.

I can show you several similar stories that remained local. Your grasping for ANYTHING. Sad.

March 25, 2012 at 10:01 p.m.
328Kwebsite said...

I felt that mixing the two topics made for a cartoon with a muddled message. Clay can do better. Please revise. Thanks.

March 25, 2012 at 10:08 p.m.
ricardo said...

Obama did not bring race into this issue. The moron Zimmerman brought race into it when he shouted racial epithets at the boy while on the cell phone to 911. I think any parent would think about their own child when thinking about Trayvon Martin. But then again, most white kids aren't hunted down like an animal in suburbia like he was.

March 25, 2012 at 10:25 p.m.
LaughingBoy said...

I'm not trying to exploit anything. Are you that hard headed? Someone else brought it up and tonight is the first I've heard of it. No, it wouldn't have been local had it been the other way around. The uproar would have been 100 x this case.

March 25, 2012 at 10:26 p.m.
ricardo said...

328K, I agree that Clay shouldn't have combined issues, although I see his point about racism being at the root of both cases. In both cases, black people are being "targeted".

March 25, 2012 at 10:28 p.m.
rick1 said...

Lr103 said What's racist" about that statement. He was speaking as a parent. Not as an African-American parent, but a concerned parent. See, how you show your racism and bigotry? And even you don't realize it?*

If Tryvon had been white, would Obama have perceived a white 17-year-old as the son he never had?

Obama also jumped on the band wagon when Henry Gates was arrested by a the Cambridge Police and Obama said he didn't have all the facts then continued to the police acted stupidly. Don't forget Obama even personalized the event, saying he, would probably get shot trying to break into the White House or into his house in Chicago.

Obama is still a Community Organizer and plays the race card when ever he feels it will benefit him.

March 25, 2012 at 10:35 p.m.
Notnow said...

Count me on the side of being disgusted with Clay Bennett trying to gain political points off this horrible tragedy. A family has lost a son, and all Mr. Bennett can think about is "How can I exploit this?". Where is our outrage at the numerous Chattanooga teens gunned down? I would be inclined to believe Mr. Bennett were sincere if he ever once voiced outrage at the numerous, needless deaths of African-American youths caught in the crossfire here in Chattanooga. But alas, there is no gain for Mr. Bennett in doing that. You should be ashamed of yourself Mr. Bennett. Go put on your hoodie and take a photo of yourself to show support for the victim; it only seems natural after you posted the Kony 2012 video to feel better about yourself. You may feel better about yourself (and no doubt superior to everyone else) but you have really done a disservice to the readers.

March 26, 2012 at 12:15 a.m.
Cojee said...

Excellent analogy, Clay! The St Pete Times -- now Tampa Bay Times -- ran another of your great 'toons the other day, the one where the middle class is a car being dismantled. Not that we have any shortage of TeaBaggers here, but many of us old-timers still bitterly regret having lost you to Tennessee. I notice that my favorite commenters have turned out also to be from FL. Sure you don't want to retire here to a hero's welcome?

March 26, 2012 at 12:55 a.m.
fairmon said...

cente01 said..... the rest of the world looks at America, no longer as the beacon of hope, but the land of fear, doom and dread.

I doubt that statement since the flow of illegal immigrants hasn't slowed and others seeking legal entry as well. Regardless of any opinion on the Fla. incident that has not been "the news" of the day in other countries. Any fear or dread on the part of the rest of the world is our sorry economic state and growing debt.

March 26, 2012 at 1:11 a.m.
Lr103 said...

tu_q, That 911 tape conversation you posted you only prove what others have long said and disprove what Zimmerman's supporters have tried to deny. That is that Zimmerman knew he was casing a young black, male teen. Also you can post enough of that part of the conversation without totally blocking it out for other to be able to read enough of it to know Zimmerman was already hyped up. When he said, "These a**holes always get away." You posted: " These (a^^h^%#s)(had to modify this to get by the hall monitor-tq"

Don't be shy. :-)

harp3339. The ones I know personally will tell you they only come to America for money, and not for the love of the country. Most really don't even like America or Americans. Yes, the story did make national and international news. You just have to know the right media outlets where the story has been reported. From the Phillipines to Asia to Europe and even parts of Africa.

March 26, 2012 at 5:28 a.m.
joneses said...

This foolish president will never pass on an opportunity to divide this country further. Obama has a dialogue of hate in his words. He makes statements promoting the hatred of wealthy people, blacks should hate whites, gays should hate straights, atheist should hate christians and many more. Has it ever occurred to anyone that Obama is pursuing the agenda of the muslim extremist to create as much turmoil in the world so Mohammed will return? This is one reason why these terrorist create all their havoc. The Koran says Mohammed will return when the whole world is in turmoil so the Muslim extremist create turmoil. Something to think about. Or it could be Obama is just plain irresponsible and foolish.

March 26, 2012 at 5:52 a.m.
ibshame said...

From Tu_q

"911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28]"

Zimmerman had NO right to follow this kid from the very beginning. His so-called mission should have been to notify the police (as he supposedly did) and then wait for them to show up. But instead he is a "wannabe cop" with a gun. No where in any of this is there proof Trayvon Martin ever did anything more than walk through the neighborhood with a hoodie on, a bag of skittles in his possession and a can of ice tea. He did not have a gun, he did not have a knife, he was not a "black belt" karate expert, he did not have a baseball bat in his hand. He had nothing on him that indicated he was some type of criminal. He was just a child returning from a store. Zimmerman killed this kid in cold blood.

People like Tu dumb will look for excuses or try to justify this killing because that's the kind of thing they get their kicks out of. Here's the thing, before you start trying to justify Zimmerman killing this UNARMED kid you should think twice because the same thing could happen to your child or any child when loose cannons like Zimmerman are allowed to arm themselves under an insane law.

March 26, 2012 at 8:15 a.m.
ibshame said...

"joneses said... Obama has a dialogue of hate in his words. He makes statements promoting the hatred of wealthy people, blacks should hate whites, gays should hate straights, atheist should hate christians and many more."

Since you and others like you seem to believe this BS why don't you post proof of these so-called words of hate that Obama has supposedly spoken? Post the words and the dates as to when he has made those statements. If you make accusations like the ones you are making you ought to man-up and provide proof of such statements otherwise you are simply talking out of your a** at the very least. You and those like you are a danger to democracy in this country. You accuse President Obama of spreading hate yet you provide no such proof other than what you have created in your mind. A mind IS a terrible thing to waste but it appears your is nothing more than a wasteland full of lies and baseless accusations.

March 26, 2012 at 8:24 a.m.
davisss13 said...

Wwlcome to tu_quoque's rightwing forum.

March 26, 2012 at 8:28 a.m.
davisss13 said...

Republicans are cheating. They are stealing the votes of vulnerable members of our society.

How you degenerate scumbags can even sleep at night is beyond me.

Voter fraud my ass. You people just want to steal votes.

March 26, 2012 at 8:33 a.m.
ibshame said...

tu_quoque said... ricardo said...

"Obama did not bring race into this issue. The moron Zimmerman brought race into it when he shouted racial epithets at the boy while on the cell phone to 911"

I say your a liar and I have posted the transcript and you are welcome to show me where I am wrong.

For the federal government to enter this case they have to show that the teen's civil rights were violated. The best way to do that is by showing that Zimmerman was prompted by race.

Some audio engineers have been hired to find this in the 911 calls. They have an area of the tape that Zimmerman is running and breathing hard. Some have said that there may be words uttered under his breath. However none of them would say they would swear to it in a court of law.

So good luck with that bit of B.S. speculation."

I say you are a LIAR. President Obama said if he had a child, the child would look like Trayvon. How is that bringing race into the issue other than saying I am a Black man and if I had a child he would look like Trayvon. It's true. If he had a child he would be BLACK. That's not being racist that's stating a FACT. You are one pitiful person. You think because someone makes a statement like the one President Obama made that somehow that makes him a racist. WHY? Are you projecting your own feelings? Are you a racist?

Zimmerman is the one who stalked this child. Not because the child had anything on him to indicate he was a criminal. It was because he had on a hoodie and appeared to be Black. Trayvon Martin was walking through the neighborhood talking on a cell phone with his girlfriend just prior to Zimmerman confronting him. It was Zimmerman who uttered the words these a*sholes always get away when talking to the dispatcher. It was Zimmerman who followed this child even though the dispatch told him not to do so. WHY? What did Zimmerman hope to accomplish?

As for what people will swear to in a court of law remains to be seen. You can be sure if the federal government does bring a case against Zimmerman they will do all in their power to make sure it's a strong case and it won't be based on B.S. speculation.

March 26, 2012 at 8:44 a.m.

davisss13: give it up. The reasonable have one this argument.

Claydoh! will never let a good crisis go to waste. He's johnny on the spot to assist the left wing wackos.

March 26, 2012 at 8:47 a.m.
davisss13 said...

bookieturnersghost said... davisss13: give it up. The reasonable have one this argument.

I see you get your definition of 'reasonable' from the new, improved Orwellian GOP dictionary.

Claydoh! will never let a good crisis go to waste. He's johnny on the spot to assist the left wing wackos.

Republicans stood on the bodies of the 9/11 victims as a vehicle for their party's 'permanent majority', used the event in every possible way to get elected yet you degenerates make a claim like that?

Unbelievable. You GD 'patriots' want war of all kinds. Race war. Religious war. Class war.

You people are a disease, a cancer on the US.

March 26, 2012 at 8:55 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Davisssssss: Seriously man, you need an intervention.

March 26, 2012 at 9:07 a.m.
davisss13 said...

Jackie boy, you need to be deprogrammed and removed from the GOP cult. Seriously man, I'm sure there are many psychoanalysts and psychiatrists in your area, competent and otherwise... I suggest you make use of at least one them at your earliest convenience.

March 26, 2012 at 9:22 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

davissssssss: your avatar says it all about you, pal.

March 26, 2012 at 9:38 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Acerigger said: "So,stalking someone,confronting them,then shooting them is "responsible behavior"?"

Interestingly, even Florida’s former governor who signed the "stand your ground" bill into law doesn’t think Zimmerman’s defense will hold up:

"Bush said it is "always good to review laws," including the 2005 law that protects a person who uses deadly force from prosecution if there's reasonable belief that "such force" is needed to protect lives. . .

While Bush maintained that "we ought to let the judicial process work," he said he doesn't believe that Zimmerman's defense will hold up.

"This law does not apply to this particular circumstance," he said. "'Stand your ground' means 'stand your ground.' It doesn't mean 'chase after somebody who's turned their back.'"

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/03/23/3831933/at-ut-arlington-jeb-bush-speaks.html

March 26, 2012 at 9:52 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

So the New Black Panthers argue that Zimmerman was not a police officer but a private volunteer, and I suppose had no right to shoot at Martin. Then they declare that the police are not doing their job, apparently to justify their death threats against Zimmerman.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/24/New-Black-Panther-Party-Issues-Wanted-Dead-or-Alive

Is it possible for a leftist to see the irony here? What is more important, a single man that may or may not have overstepped his bounds or a group of racially motivated hot heads issuing wanted dead or alive posters for a man they presume to be guilty?

March 26, 2012 at 9:58 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BigRidgePatriot said: "What is more important? A single man that may or may not have overstepped his bounds or a group of racially motivated hot heads issuing wanted dead or alive posters for a man they presume to be guilty."

Since Zimmerman didn't seem concerned about justice when it came to the rights of his victim and the Black Panthers don't seem to be concerned about justice in regard to Zimmerman, I'd say Zimmerman and the Black Panthers are two of a kind, BRP.

March 26, 2012 at 10:06 a.m.
BluesHarp said...

Clay hits another one out of the park, holding a mirror to that dark side of our American experience that threatens all that we ostensibly stand for...and the reactions illustrate Pogo's theorem: "We have met the enemy, and he is US!"

What a MemeFest! The usual bald-faced display of majority white privileged fear, hate, hypocrisy and regurgitated lies from the Platinum 1% Pluto-FA$CI$T Daily Megaphone, delivered by insanely-paid ogres who would certainly be under serious mental health supervision unless thus employed. America is better than this, folks...

"Give to every human being every right that you claim for yourself."  ~ Robert G. Ingersoll

"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." 
- Edmund Burke

"Democracy is not the law of the majority but the protection of the minority."
 - Albert Camus

"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." -Frederick Douglass

"Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary." -Reinhold Niebuhr

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"What we have in this country is socialism for the rich and free enterprise for the poor." -Gore Vidal

"In the absence of justice, what is sovereignty but organized robbery?" -Saint Augustine

March 26, 2012 at 10:07 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Notnow said... "Where is our outrage at the numerous Chattanooga teens gunned down?"

It is only a story if it is a white on black incident. Black on black or black on white do not support the "progressive" agenda so it is not newsworthy. The Wart is just another progressive drummer. No brain cells firing, just a list of issues he has been told he is supposed to get keyed up about.

March 26, 2012 at 10:09 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

mountainlaurel said... "Since Zimmerman didn't seem concerned about due process when it came to the rights of his victim and the Black Panthers don't seem to be concerned about due process in regard to Zimmerman, I'd say Zimmerman and the Black Panthers are two of a kind"

So, am I to understand that you have proven that Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense? Regardless, who is more dangerous, the one man or the racially charged mob? Why is the press so eager to convict Zimmerman in the court of public opinion? Why does the press seem to have so little interest in the racially charged mob?

March 26, 2012 at 10:12 a.m.
davisss13 said...

BigRidgePatriot said... So the New Black Panthers argue that Zimmerman was not a police officer but a private volunteer, and I suppose had no right to shoot at Martin. Then they declare that the police are not doing their job, apparently to justify their death threats against Zimmerman.

Nothing justifies vigilantes, death threats or private bounties.

March 26, 2012 at 10:13 a.m.
davisss13 said...

mountainlaurel said... I'd say Zimmerman and the Black Panthers are two of a kind, BRP.

I think you may have something there.

March 26, 2012 at 10:15 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

BluesHarp shared... "Democracy is not the law of the majority but the protection of the minority."
 - Albert Camus*

The Constitutional Republic that was once this nation was the protector of the minority. A true democracy tends to sacrifice the minority to the majority. That is why our founders distrusted democracy. It is sad that we have lost sight of this wisdom and have abandoned the concept of equal justice under the law for mob rule.

March 26, 2012 at 10:17 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

davisss13 said... "Nothing justifies vigilantes"

I have to admit, I have not been watching the news closely over the last few days. Did they find proof that Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense?

March 26, 2012 at 10:20 a.m.
moonpie said...

Despite all the arguments against it, I cannot see one reason why individuals should not be required to provide a valid photo ID to vote.

Not one.

I can't be the only left-leaning person who feels this way.

March 26, 2012 at 10:33 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

moonie: I'm middle leaning and see no fault in it. Most southpaws see it as restricting democrat voters. (course they don't mind when dems get votes from the dead)

March 26, 2012 at 10:37 a.m.
acerigger said...

mountainlaurel,O.T.but I think you'd be interested in this article. http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/03/23/the-neoliberal-hoax/

March 26, 2012 at 10:43 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

tu_quoque said... "the photo of Zimmerman as rough and unshaven when there are many photos of him in his normal work attire which was a suit and tie."

Where have you seen such photos? I have only seen the unshaven one that they picked to put side by side with the baby faced Martin picture.

March 26, 2012 at 11:13 a.m.
davisss13 said...

Republicans are the most retaliatory, bloodthirsty, fine, upstanding men and women of faith, morals and values. Seriously, y'all have some issues.

March 26, 2012 at 11:18 a.m.
hambone said...

IT'S OFFICIAL

This forum can now be used as an example in a anti-bullying campaign for third graders.

March 26, 2012 at 11:31 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BigRidgePatriot said: “So, am I to understand that you have proven that Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense? Regardless, who is more dangerous, the one man or the racially charged mob?”

I’d say George Zimmerman and the Black Panthers are both dangerous for the same reason, BigRidgePatriot. Each obviously made the decision to take matters into their own hands instead of waiting for the judicial process to work. Law enforcement officials didn’t ask George Zimmerman to pursue Trayvon Martin that tragic day and law enforcement officials didn’t ask the Black Panthers to pursue George Zimmerman.

BigRidgePatriot said: "Why is the press so eager to convict Zimmerman in the court of public opinion? Why does the press seem to have so little interest in the racially charged mob?"

I’ve read numerous articles at this point, and I have yet to read one that appeared eager to convict Zimmerman in the court of public opinion. As for the press and the Black Panthers, I hope the press completely ignores these jerks. Like some people on this site, they’re obviously out to stir up racial division and trouble in our beloved melting pot.

March 26, 2012 at 11:35 a.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... Yes he had every right to move about his neighborhood and observe events that were occurring.

Why did you end the transcript where you did? After that it is clear that he has stopped the chase and is making arrangements with the dispatcher to meet the police back at the point he parked his truck. If you listen to the audio you can tell he is no longer running at this time. At one point he says “I don’t know where this kid is” which shows he had loss contact with him. The confrontation occurred near his truck so why did the kid return there if he had already evaded Zimmerman?"

You are without a doubt a pitiful, excuse for humanity. No one ever said Zimmerman had no right to move about his neighborhood but he didn't just stop at OBSERVING events. He actually CAUSED events. If he had only been OBSERVING he would have WAITED on the police to arrive and then pointed out where Trayvon Martin had walked to instead of saying as he did these a*sholes always get away.

There is NOTHING in the transcript to indicate he STOPPED stalking Trayvon Martin as you have stated. In fact, had he stopped stalking this young man then nothing would have happened. Trayvon had no way of knowing why he was following him around and the question STILL REMAINS why was Zimmerman following this kid? He didn't have anything on him. What was he doing that Zimmerman felt he LOOKED SUSPICIOUS? He was walking to his father's fiancee's apt with a bag of skittles and a can of ice tea with a hoodie on his head. That's it.

Zimmerman planned to do more than OBSERVE events in his neighborhood otherwise he would not have been carrying a gun. Your pathetic excuse for Zimmerman being overweight and not able to defend himself because Trayvon once played football is sick and disgusting. The fact is not only did he outweigh this kid but he had a weapon and was prepared to use DEADLY force. And then you have the audacity to want someone to believe Zimmerman was somehow the victim because he was standing near his truck.

The only thing that is clear about this whole situation is someone like you and the other pitiful dregs of humanity will try to make this DEAD kid somehow the agressor instead of admitting this tragedy is the result of a screwed up law that NEVER should have been passed in the first place. Primarily because slime like Zimmerman(a wannabe cop who probably couldn't make it into a police academy because <1. he lacked the intelligence to pass the educational requirements <2. he was physically unfit and <3. he was psychologically unfit)are legally allowed to murder in the name of self-defense.

March 26, 2012 at 11:42 a.m.
davisss13 said...

"tu_quoque said... Have you noticed that the murder of a black person in this country has little or no meaning or concern to the race hustlers until it is committed by another race."

Have you noticed that the murder of a black person in this country has little or no meaning or concern to the race hustlers (Republicans) EVER? (especially when gun laws are in the spotlight)

You are a sad human being but a great example of what the GOP has devolved into.

March 26, 2012 at 12:10 p.m.
Lr103 said...

tuquirky said: "No body has denied that he knew he was watching a black male so what is your point? That the fact Zimmerman knew the person was black makes him a racist?"


Yes they have, tuukie. Since you've been racing all around cyber-space digging up whatever you can, you've no doubt come across such Zimmerman sided theories. That is, that since Martin had a hoodie on there was no way for him to know Martin's racial makeup.

Thing is, like some of you brought up, if Martin was white and Zimmerman was black this wouldn't even be an issue? If Zimmerman were black and Martin white, the Sanford police would have done their jobs and none of this would have gone national, then internation. If zimmerman's last name was Hernandez Sanford police would have made sure Zimmerman wouldn't have made it to jail in one piece, if at all. Accidents have been known to occur in transporting a suspect to jail, you know. You and your right-wing ship'em back to crowd would be tightening the immigration law screws even tighter. You'd be contacting your lawmakers to create and sign into law even tougher immigration laws than is already on the books. You'd have long gathered up your pitchforks, stones, ropes and whatever you could find to chase'em out of the country. And God forbids if the subject had a middle eastern sounding last name, and wore Muslim style clothing. You'd be chasing anyone that even remotely looked Muslim from every Wal-Mart in the country. Remember that one? There were many Muslims assaulted, some killed, by your type after 911. In many areas of the country they remain the prey. As so do individuals with last names like Martinez, Hernandez, and the likes. Remember the tragic story of Luis Ramirez and the torturing of Javier Alcala?


"There is some extremely disturbing information coming out of Shenandoah, Pennsylvania, the town where on July 12 Mexican immigrant Luis Ramirez was beaten to death by a gang of White youths in a racially motivated crime. On Friday, yet another Mexican immigrant by the name of Javier Alcala was severely beaten by Whites and he barely escaped with his life. Mr. Alcala says, through an English/Spanish language interpreter, that he remembers the assailants where three White "skinheads." Mr. Alcala was then blindfolded and bound with duct tape and terrorized with a "drill" and a "torch".


If there's nothing else left in America, there's always more than enough hate to go around, isn't it?

March 26, 2012 at 12:23 p.m.
joneses said...

The majority of present-day Democrats don't know what they are. They don't understand the issues, can't even identify the major politicians that shape our government, and have no cohesive philosophy.

So many Democrats, principally the self-professed ultra liberal ones, don't even understand the definition of the terms they are dealing with. For example, if someone is touting a new government program, all they have to do to lure the clueless, hapless Liberal is to present the idea as being the fulfillment of social justice, that it is a program of generosity. Libs eat this stuff up, but they don't realize what is being put before them is pure Socialism.

Soviet dictator Khrushchev once observed: "We can't expect the American people to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

You may think I am being dismissive of Democrats, but in my experience, Conservatives think, Liberals just feel. I once had a heated argument with a Liberal. When I produced a copy of the Constitution and conclusively proved that what he was talking about was not written there, he didn't admit that he was wrong. He just shot back, "Oh yeah? Well......... it should be!"

That is the Liberal attitude in a nutshell. They don't care about reality. They believe that whatever they conceive as being best should be adopted, no matter whether it is sensible, practical, or if it is even Constitutional. Source(s): These are modern Democrats. Thomas Jefferson must be weeping.

March 26, 2012 at 12:45 p.m.
whatsnottaken said...

The next time it will be ... "No, I didn't follow and question him because people would think I was racist. I'm sorry he rolled and killed three people in that house. At least I'm not a racist, right?

March 26, 2012 at 1:14 p.m.
JustOneWoman said...

joneses said... "The majority of present-day Democrats don't know what they are. They don't understand the issues, can't even identify the major politicians that shape our government, and have no cohesive philosophy.........."

And you know this HOW?

I would venture to bet that I know many more democrats than you. I would say everyone of them is smarter and more aware of reality as well as politics than you. How dare you speak so offensively of another American. Where are you? Do you not know that in THIS country we all, not just people like you, but all are patriots. I am an independent. You could not pay me enough to side with the Republicans. They have become the biggest cheats, liars, scumbags, just to name a few. And now, they have now gone and pissed the women off. Earlier today I read in one of these post that if you don't think like this particular local republican, you are a socialist communist. It is almost like they just cant help themselves to the hate. The Republican party is already circling the drain. And the drain seems to be placed in Chattanooga. November will be a rude awakening for many of you.

March 26, 2012 at 1:41 p.m.
ibshame said...

" joneses said... The majority of present-day Democrats don't know what they are. They don't understand the issues, can't even identify the major politicians that shape our government, and have no cohesive philosophy.

So many Democrats, principally the self-professed ultra liberal ones, don't even understand the definition of the terms they are dealing with. ......You may think I am being dismissive of Democrats, but in my experience, Conservatives think, Liberals just feel.....That is the Liberal attitude in a nutshell. They don't care about reality."

From earlier today: "joneses said... Obama has a dialogue of hate in his words. He makes statements promoting the hatred of wealthy people, blacks should hate whites, gays should hate straights, atheist should hate christians and many more."

It's too bad you DON'T provide proof of the things you write as facts. Earlier today you claimed Obama makes statments promoting hatred but you NEVER provided one example of your claim. Now you claim Democrats don't understand the issues, don't understand the definition of terms they are dealing with... etc. In my opinion You seem to be the one who doesn't UNDERSTAND.

You live in a world where you can make statements you consider to be facts and not opinions but you don't bother to back your facts with evidence. Where ever it is you come from facts backed by evidence to support them are not important. Just talking out of your a*s makes you seem as if you have knowledge which you don't possess. And when you are called to put your so-called facts and evidence on display, you can't do it so then you resort to petty name-calling because in your world that's how you have managed to appear as if you know more than you do. Too bad for you it doesn't work that way any more. Welcome to the 21st century and the age of INFORMATION.

You will be challenged to provide proof of what you state are FACTS. On the other hand if you are writing your opinion of something then no evidence is required because we do live in a free society where ideas and opinions should be freely expressed. The next time you want to say President Obama promotes hatred you should make the distinction this is your OPINION because unless you can provide evidence to support this statement then it is an opinion and like %holes everyone has one.

March 26, 2012 at 1:55 p.m.
JustOneWoman said...

tu_quoque said... "JustOneMore%^&$* Sez:

"And you know this HOW?"

I just read your post you loon and that was all the proof I needed."

You just gotta learn to read.......Slow down. Take a breath. Paranoid anyone? And your post is screaming that you have a problem with women. Cant even write the word, aye? Your attack was more like a scorned reaction than one to a civil conversation.

March 26, 2012 at 2:01 p.m.
joneses said...

ibshame,

Here is proof you imbecile. Listen to this POS president speak. That is all the proof one needs By the way I will post anything I want when I want and not put whether it is opinion or fact and there is not a damn thing you can do about it, nothing.

March 26, 2012 at 2:16 p.m.
joneses said...

Does America Have its first Marxist President?  You bet it does and Here’s the Verification:  9 June 2009 © www.BarackObamaWebPage.com   Founded in 1992, the New Party is a Marxist political coalition whose objective is to endorse and elect leftist public officials - most often Democrats. The New Party’s immediate objective is to turn the Democrat Party hard left, in an attempt to create a new Marxist party. Most New Party members come from the Democratic Socialists of America, the hard left organization ACORN and an assortment of Maoists, Trotskyites, and Communist Party USA members.  It was very active in Chicago, with membership including none other than BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA. Since his ascent to prominence, there have been attempts at “scrubbing” New Party references of Obama having been a member or their even having provided support in his early elections.  But thanks to a concerned reader of www.BarackObamaWebPage.com, we have obtained archival material proving that Barack Hussein Obama is the first Marxist Socialist President of the United States. The adoring mainstream press has worked feverishly to cover up Obama's dedication to Marxist ideology going back to his teenage years.  But substantiation of New Party membership can be seen by the following documents in pdf format.  So you don't have to read documents in their entirety unless interested, we have yellow highlighted the name of Barack Obama for convenient recognition.  Click for Document 1, Document 2.  New Party Support can be seen in Document 3.

March 26, 2012 at 2:17 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Acerigger said: "I think you'd be interested in this article."

Thanks for the link, Acerigger. Interestingly, the discussion seems to fit in with the mission, political activities, and much of the legislation underwritten by the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) including the laws reflected in today’s political cartoon.

I find it really hard to believe it’s just a coincidence that so many state lawmakers across this nation have taken the same destructive path and produced essentially identical bills designed to boost corporate power, reduce worker rights, weaken banking/financial regulations, block health care reform, restrict voting by minorities, and limit corporate accountability when it come to deadly pollution and toxic chemicals - and, clearly, it's all at the public’s expense.

March 26, 2012 at 2:24 p.m.
acerigger said...

Well,glad we cleared that up!

A friend of the self-appointed neighborhood watch leader who killed an unarmed black Florida teen says that reports that his pal uttered a racial slur before the slaying are simply wrong.

After reviewing a 911 call George Zimmerman made before gunning down Trayvon Martin, many believe they hear the shooter calling the 17-year-old a “fking cn.”

But a friend of Zimmerman’s family told ABC on Sunday that people were jumping to the wrong conclusion.

“I spoke with my teenage daughter yesterday, and the word in question, it’s the difference between a ‘C’ and a ‘G’ from what I understand,” attorney Craig Sonner explained.

“And ‘goon’ is apparently a term of endearment in the high schools these days,” he added. “I don’t know of anyone younger than 40 who uses ‘c**n’ as a racial epithet.” http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/25/attorney-zimmerman-used-term-of-endearment-before-killing-trayvon-martin/

March 26, 2012 at 2:48 p.m.
joneses said...

Why Liberals Lie

Once you've watched liberals long enough to understand how they think -- scratch that, how they feel -- they become extraordinarily predictable.

To begin with, the liberal agenda is, in many respects, the same as it was in the thirties. Whether you call it communism, fascism, socialism, liberalism, or progressivism, the only real difference is how much they believe they can get away with, the way they sell it to people, and the latest trendy name for what they believe.

So, once the liberals pick a policy from their stale program to push, the next step is to get it implemented. This is where liberals have problems because whether a policy makes sense, is practical, or actually improves people's lives is of secondary importance to them. What is important to liberals is whether supporting or opposing that policy makes them feel good about themselves.

This is why liberals continue to support dysfunctional policies that have been failing miserably for decades and why they often oppose common sense programs that have been proven to work time and time again -- because it isn't about whether it works or not, it's about how it makes them feel.

In other words, a liberal will almost always prefer a policy that's extremely expensive, is difficult to implement, helps almost no one, but seems "nice" -- to a policy that is cheap, simple to implement, extremely effective, and seems "mean."

However, since most Americans make decisions about policies based on whether or not they believe the policy makes people's lives better or worse, liberals have had to become habitually dishonest about what they believe and want to do to get their ideas put into action.

March 26, 2012 at 2:57 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

mountainlaurel said... "Each obviously made the decision to take matters into their own hands instead of waiting for the judicial process to work"

I hope you are never in a position of having to choose between defending yourself and waiting for the police to arrive. I am not saying that Zimmerman is guilty or innocent. I just do not know.

In my book, I am responsible for protecting myself and my family and I know that I cannot depend on the police to be there when needed. Police make good investigators when time permits, but they can never be expected to arrive on time to protect someone in danger.

March 26, 2012 at 3:11 p.m.
shoe_chucker said...

@ 12:45

joneses said...

The majority of present-day Democrats don't know what they are. They don't understand the issues, can't even identify the major politicians that shape our government, and have no cohesive philosophy.

why won't you credit the author of your post? we all know you didn't write that. is it because you found it on yahoo answers?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081231182956AAa0Eb6

March 26, 2012 at 3:40 p.m.
shoe_chucker said...

jones posted again on March 26, 2012 at 2:17 p.m. and March 26, 2012 at 2:57 p.m without crediting the writer or linking to the story. what a scumbag. wouldn't you agree su_perfluous?

March 26, 2012 at 3:47 p.m.
shoe_chucker said...

i cannot believe jones would steal, but i know he's not that smart. hey jones it is quick and easy to link to stuff, you should try it sometime.

someting's going on here, but you don't know what it is do you mr. jones.

bob dylan (see how i did that?)

March 26, 2012 at 3:57 p.m.
joneses said...

The disgusting liberals are really showing their true colors on this young black man, Martin, being shot and killed by Zimmerman, hispanic, by politicizing this tragic incident. So far the liberals blame game have included Jeb Bush, the Koch Brothers, they have put a bounty on Zimmerman, the NRA, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, the Republicans, Christians, Romney, Santorum, and anyone or thing that disagrees with them. Do you sensible people see how ridiculous these liberal are? They are doing the same thing they did to Richard Jewel who they accused of the 1996 Atlanta Summer Olympic bombing which Eric Rudolph was tried and convicted of doing. These pathetic liberals are being absurd in politicizing this tragic event.

Photo ID? There are two reasons why these pathetic liberals are against it. (1) It will stop their voter fraud (2) It is primarily supported by the Republican Party. What they do not tell you is many Democrats are for voter ID as well. The liberals lie when they use that new word they learned in 2000, what was it, disenfranchised? These foolish liberals learn a new word and they just repeat it over and over again like the dumb asses they are.

March 26, 2012 at 3:58 p.m.
shoe_chucker said...

now that is more like the jones we know and love. be true to yourself jones.

March 26, 2012 at 4:21 p.m.
joneses said...

shoechucker, nooga,

I do not share the links because I do not want to. I do not credit the authors because I do not want to. I do not care if anyone thinks I wrote these articles or copied and pasted them either. And you know what? There is not a thing you can do about it. Another thing, I do not care whether you and your little friend nooga read my post or not because you are just two more liberal liars that mean nothing to me. It is that simple. The people that think your immature comments about shoe scum are funny are not important to me just for the sole reason of laughing at your immaturity. You or any other lying liberals are nothing to me.

March 26, 2012 at 4:39 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Tu_quo_que said: “The confrontation occurred near his truck so why did the kid return there if he had already evaded Zimmerman?”

Returned? Are you sure about this, Tu_quo_que?

“These days, Cheryl Brown has to walk the dog. For a month — ever since her son heard someone screaming for help and her daughter called 911 and everyone heard the loud snap of a gunshot — Brown's children have been afraid to go outside.

Her youngest daughter, who is 9, won't even look out the window. She keeps seeing the dead teen's body. "That could have so easily been my son," said Brown. "He wears hoodies all the time."

Brown, a 40-year-old single mom who says she is "mostly black," moved into the Retreat at Twin Lakes last year. She chose the gated subdivision of identical townhomes because it is racially diverse, lots of children live there and, she said, "it seemed so safe."

Then, on Feb. 26, neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin, 17, as he walked from a 7-Eleven with iced tea and a bag of Skittles. Now, Brown's children linger inside. And she does dog duty.

On Wednesday, her white boxer, Sake, led her along the sidewalk, then turned onto a manicured path stretching between two rows of townhouses. Brown stopped and pointed to a patch of shade beneath a scrawny maple tree.

"This is where Trayvon was killed," she said. "He was almost home."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/trayvon-martins-killing-shatters-safety-within-retreat-at-twin-lakes-in/1221799

March 26, 2012 at 5:28 p.m.
acerigger said...

mountainlaurel ,I don't think that it's a mere coincidence that after the Repub take-over of many state legislatures and governorships in 2010 that the corporations are writing the laws for them.

March 26, 2012 at 5:53 p.m.
shoe_chucker said...

joneses said...

shoechucker, nooga,

I do not share the links because I do not want to. I do not credit the authors because I do not want to. I do not care if anyone thinks I wrote these articles or copied and pasted them either. And you know what? There is not a thing you can do about it. Another thing, I do not care whether you and your little friend nooga read my post or not because you are just two more liberal liars that mean nothing to me. It is that simple. The people that think your immature comments about shoe scum are funny are not important to me just for the sole reason of laughing at your immaturity. You or any other lying liberals are nothing to me.

i love it jones. thank you. i am still lmao at you. you are way more funny than Clay ever dreamed of. i mean seriously, you sound like a high school kid. now hurry along and copy and paste us some more of your jokes.

March 26, 2012 at 6:31 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

"After my election, I will have more flexibility". Bwahahahahaha

March 26, 2012 at 6:33 p.m.
shoe_chucker said...

oh and jones, nooga was the one that made the comment about snail trails, and it is his/her right to hold that opinion, i on the other hand find your comments 10 times funnier.

March 26, 2012 at 6:41 p.m.
shoe_chucker said...

lol i can't stop laughing about jones' I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I? I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I? argument. man that is rich. keep the cards and letters coming jjjones.

i wish chet was here....

March 26, 2012 at 6:45 p.m.
rick1 said...

Former NAACP leader C.L. Bryant is accusing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton of “exploiting” the Trayvon Martin tragedy to “racially divide this country.”

“His family should be outraged at the fact that they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,” Rev. C.L. Bryant said in a Monday interview with The Daily Caller.

The conservative black pastor who was once the chapter president of the Garland, Texas NAACP called Jackson and Sharpton “race hustlers” and said they are “acting as though they are buzzards circling the carcass of this young boy.”

How long before he is verbally attacked by the liberals?

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/former-naacp-leader-accuses-sharpton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/#ixzz1qGXA6UX5

March 26, 2012 at 6:45 p.m.
rick1 said...

Agree, he will have more flexability to continue to destroy this country and he will now destroy Poland as well.

March 26, 2012 at 6:52 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Is Jack_Dennis the only conservative here that's smart enough to jump on the Obama/Medvedev story? Come on you dullards! BRING IT!

March 26, 2012 at 6:53 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Would love to see one southpaw with stones enough to condemn BO's Medvedev screw-up. One.

March 26, 2012 at 7:02 p.m.
rick1 said...

A white 21 year old Mississippi State student was shot and killed by three black suspects on Saturday night. Is Jesse and Al going to leave Florida and head to Mississippi to call for justice? Is Obama going to call the victims family? Will Eric Holder have the DOJ conduct a civil rights investigation?

March 26, 2012 at 7:02 p.m.
fairmon said...

centare01 said.....

the rest of the world looks at America, no longer as the beacon of hope, but the land of fear, doom and dread.

centare do you think possible smart publicizing of events such as this may be the best illegal immigrant and terrorist control we have available. Hello, centare you have me thinking we better be considering a way to keep them from leaving too fast.

It is evident no one here could serve on a jury about this case. It sounds like most have reached a decision which will not change if new facts become known.

March 26, 2012 at 7:05 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Ricardo said: “328K, I agree that Clay shouldn't have combined issues, although I see his point about racism being at the root of both cases.”

I think the analogy reflected in the cartoon is a good one, especially when you consider the organization working to create such divisive laws and political climate. Paul Krugman’s recent commentary summarizes it well:

“Florida’s now-infamous Stand Your Ground law, which lets you shoot someone you consider threatening without facing arrest, let alone prosecution, sounds crazy — and it is. And it’s tempting to dismiss this law as the work of ignorant yahoos. But similar laws have been pushed across the nation, not by ignorant yahoos but by big corporations.

Specifically, language virtually identical to Florida’s law is featured in a template supplied to legislators in other states by the American Legislative Exchange Council, a corporate-backed organization that has managed to keep a low profile even as it exerts vast influence. . .

What is ALEC? Despite claims that it’s nonpartisan, it’s very much a movement-conservative organization, funded by the usual suspects: the Kochs, Exxon Mobil, and so on. Unlike other such groups, however, it doesn’t just influence laws, it literally writes them, supplying fully drafted bills to state legislators. . .

But where does the encouragement of vigilante (in)justice fit into this picture? In part it’s the same old story — the long-standing exploitation of public fears, especially those associated with racial tension, to promote a pro-corporate, pro-wealthy agenda. It’s neither an accident nor a surprise that the National Rifle Association and ALEC have been close allies all along.

And ALEC, even more than other movement-conservative organizations, is clearly playing a long game. Its legislative templates aren’t just about generating immediate benefits to the organization’s corporate sponsors; they’re about creating a political climate that will favor even more corporation-friendly legislation in the future.

Did I mention that ALEC has played a key role in promoting bills that make it hard for the poor and ethnic minorities to vote?

Yet that’s not all; you have to think about the interests of the penal-industrial complex — prison operators, bail-bond companies and more. (The American Bail Coalition has publicly described ALEC as its “life preserver.”) This complex has a financial stake in anything that sends more people into the courts and the prisons, whether it’s exaggerated fear of racial minorities or Arizona’s draconian immigration law, a law that followed an ALEC template almost verbatim.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/opinion/krugman-lobbyists-guns-and-money.html?_r=1

March 26, 2012 at 7:08 p.m.
moonpie said...

Jack,

I think what the President said was absolutely true. Don't you?

If he wins reelection, he will likely have more flexibility. Lame duck presidents aren't as beholden... this is nothing new.

I certainly didn't hear any promises made. I don't pretend to read the president's mind, so I can't say how committed he is to making genuine concessions with the Russians. Nor can I say for certain how threatened Vladimir Putin really is by the defense system. He may just be making hay.

I think people will try to make hay out of this. Guess what.... It's hay. So make hay.

Diplomacy is a two way street. All things considered, I don't think the request was unreasonable or shocking.

The only reason it has any intrigue is because it was "caught" on the mike when no one was listening.

The uproar reminds me of Capt. Renault in Casablanca, "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling (or politics) is going on here" and then collects his winnings.

March 26, 2012 at 7:43 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

joneses, 2:57pm Post of the month.

March 26, 2012 at 8:13 p.m.
shoe_chucker said...

Jack_Dennis said...

joneses, 2:57pm Post of the month.

so it is ok to steal?

March 26, 2012 at 10:06 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Sorry, tu_quoque, it's a red herring.

Enemy sighted, enemy met. I'm addressing the realpolitik. Do I need to give attribution?

March 26, 2012 at 10:11 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

This is my last election. After my election I will have more flexibility...

Kind of reminds me of our mayor. Don't tell your constituents what you plan to do until after they have made the mistake of reelecting you.

March 26, 2012 at 10:13 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Back on topic. This is the first article I have seen that has the hoodie picture of Martin next to the unshaven picture of Zimmerman.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/26/Martin-Back-Head

The article also talks about a report that Martin was shot in the back of the head but that the report has since been taken down from the news sight. Jessie Jackson has been saying Martin was shot in the back of the head in his speeches? It will be interesting to see what is true and if Martin was not shot in the back of the head if Jackson and his race baiter crowd will be held accountable.

March 26, 2012 at 10:22 p.m.
moonpie said...

Unarmed kid, stalked through neighborhood by a self-appointed neighborhood watch who failed to heed 911 dispatch admonitions or even Neighborhood Watch protocols... Stalker confronts kid and gets out of SUV. Kid gets shot. Stalker free on Stand Your Ground Defense.

You can't stalk and stand your ground at the same time. Clearly Zimmerman was pursuing/following this kid.....

Several Republican supporters of the Stand Your Ground Bill have denounced Zimmerman and said he should be charged for murder....

Tell me.... how does a pursuer claim to be standing his ground?

The stand your ground law essentially says you can defend yourself with lethal force if you are legally in a place and someone threatens you....

After being pursued.... It sounds like Martin has the better claim to this defense, only he is dead.

If only Martin had a lethal weapon and had used it.... then all of those defending Zimmerman could defend the young Mr. Martin....

Or would they?


In the end, I think justice will be served in this case. The new police chief said all the facts have yet to be revealed. I'm content to see them play out fully. What has emerged does not look good. Stand your ground? Pursue your suspect? Exactly what law are people defending so far?

March 26, 2012 at 11:13 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel ask.... What is ALEC? Then referenced an article suggesting the legislative exchange council which enables state legislatures to easily exchange information regarding the state legislatures actions to each other plus documents of laws passed. It is much more efficient than having every state legislature attempting to write a bill about an issue they want to address. The article doesn't point out that each state legislature holds the authority to pass or not pass any piece of legislation introduced. If they are passing laws that should not be the voters in that state can control that by making sure they are not elected. Or do we elect only idiots to state positions or is it the voters that are too ignorant to elect the right people?

March 27, 2012 at 4:13 a.m.
Legend said...

There are actually two cases unfolding in Florida where this Stand Your Ground rule is being played out. Used as a means to justify the shooting and killing of an unarmed citizen. One the victim was going to assist someone he believed to be in distress, involving a child and a skateboard. The other thought he was being persued by an assailant and was at least initially trying to get away from his assailant. One, the victim was a white Air Force Veteran, shot in the heart. The accused, African-American, was initially arrested, charged, had to post bail and is facing a potentially 30 year prison sentence for possibly aggravated manslaughter.. He is using the Florida Stand Your Ground rule as a defense. The judge is presently looking into that law. In the second tragedy there was no arrest. The subject involved was never charged. No evidence was ever gathered. The accused never had his weapon confiscated or tested. He was never tested for possibly drugs or alcohol. The victim is a 17 year old African-American male. In the earlier above mentioned the victim was doing what many Americans do every day. Being a good samaritan. He lost his life trying to help someone in what should have turned out at the most to be an argument maybe, and if a few punches were thrown, a handshake afterwards. Instead he was shot point blank in the heart in front of his then 8 year old daughter. She's presently under going treatment for what she witnessed. In the second tragedy, the subject disobeyed 911 advice and pursued someone he believed to be potential criminal casing the neighborhood. It turns out that wasn't case. He lost his life while holding only a bag of skittles and a can of iced tea on him on his way back from a local store. Nothing criminal about that, is it? Both of these are senseless avoidable tragedies. It is false when they say an armed society is a polite society. A heavily armed society is actually a more crazed society. One that is more like than not to settle its difference with a bullet rather than a few cuss words, a punch or two thrown, and the next day everyone will be shaking hands and buying one another a beer. Hopefully, lawmakers will take a second look at this STAND YOUR GROUND law. As it stands it's a license to commit murder, and that's what some law-abiding Americans are actually doing. Then running to hide behind the STAND YOUR GROUND law afterwards.

If you remember nothing else about this Stand Your Ground law and America's obsession with guns, remember these two names: Air Force Veteran and Iraqi War Vet David James and 17 year old Treyvon Martin. There are many others like these two that have taken place since this Stand Your Ground has been signed into law. Many ruled justifiable homicides. There will be many more like these two to come if lawmakers refuse or fail to act. I am Air Force Veteran/Iraqi War Vet David James, I am Trayvon Martin and so are YOU!!

March 27, 2012 at 8:47 a.m.
chet123 said...

listen to RICK1....POSTING MARCH 26, 7:02PM.....THIS IS WHY ITS HARD TO DAILOGUE WITH A IDIOT LIKE RICK1......RICK1, YOU CAN BET YOUR RED NECK BUT THOSE GUYS WERE ARRESTED....AND NOT ALLOWED TO GO HOME WITH THEIR GUNS...BET ALSO CAN BET THEY WILL BE PUT UNDER JAIL...IF NOT GET THE DEATH SENTENCE....AND I CAN BET THE BLACKS IN THAT COMMUNITY WAS NOT DEFENDING THOSE THREE THUGS.....SO WHY ARE YOU SHOOTING OFF AT THE MOUTH Hmmmm?

AS ALWAYS, YOU COMPARE APPLES AND ORANGES.....YOU TALK LIKE A FOOL....ONLY IN AMERICA!

March 27, 2012 at 10:17 a.m.
chet123 said...

I SEE IDIOTS LIKE RICK1 AND JONESES SHOOTING OFF THEIR BIGOT MOUTHS....EVENTHOUGH THEY HAVE A DOG IN THE FIGHT.....NOW THESE FOOLS WILL BE THE FIRST ONES TO PROCLAIM THEY ARE PRO-LIFE..HA HA HA

NOW LET A DOG GET HARM....AND THEY WANT TO THROW THE BOOK AT THE SUSPECT...IE MICHAEL VICK HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THESE RIGHT-WING NUTS ARE HEATHENS AND PAGANIST

March 27, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “mountainlaurel ask.... What is ALEC? Then referenced an article suggesting the legislative exchange council which enables state legislatures to easily exchange information regarding the state legislatures actions to each other plus documents of laws passed.”

Huh? Do you always just make stuff up, Harp3339. I did not ask a question about ALEC in my post, but I did comment [7:08 p.m.] on the organization’s divisive political agenda, which I believe to be at the expense of the public. I included quotes from Paul Krugman’s recent commentary about ALEC's political activities because Krugman obviously shares my concerns about ALEC’s divisive political agenda.

Harp3339 said: “It is much more efficient than having every state legislature attempting to write a bill about an issue they want to address.”

Well, Harp3339, I must confess that I really haven't thought much about the efficiency aspect, but since you brought it up I agree it is a rather efficient arrangement to conduct bribery:

1.A group of corporate lobbyists and conservative legislators get together informally at ALEC conferences and everybody approves “model” legislation.

2.The corporations funding ALEC donate money to the campaigns of receptive state legislators in order to help them win their elections.

3.The state legislators file and pass the bills drafted by their corporate counter parts in the American Legislative Exchange Council - ALEC.

4.Repeat

Harp3339 said: “The article doesn't point out that each state legislature holds the authority to pass or not pass any piece of legislation introduced.”

I don’t think you finished Krugman’s article, Harp3339. Krugman does point out that ALEC is not single handedly responsible for our current situation. Granted, he could have expanded on it, but he does make the point:

“Now, ALEC isn’t single-handedly responsible for the corporatization of our political life; its influence is as much a symptom as a cause. But shining a light on ALEC and its supporters — a roster that includes many companies, from AT&T and Coca-Cola to UPS, that have so far managed to avoid being publicly associated with the hard-right agenda — is one good way to highlight what’s going on. And that kind of knowledge is what we need to start taking our country back.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/opinion/krugman-lobbyists-guns-and-money.html?_r=1

March 27, 2012 at 11:25 a.m.
stanleyyelnats said...

Trayvon tried to stand his ground so Mr. Zimmerman shot him.

March 27, 2012 at 7:38 p.m.
chet123 said...

they call that "cold blooded murder"...no two ways about it

March 27, 2012 at 9:48 p.m.
chet123 said...

THIS IS WHY I HAVE ALWAYS SAID REPUBLICAN CANT GOVERN!!!!!!!!!!!

THERES AN OLD SAYING....WHAT GOES AROUND....WILL COME AROUND....SO YOU RIGHT-WING NUTS....JUST LAUGH ON AND KEEP HATING...YOU WILL HAVE YOUR DAY....BELEIVE ME!

March 27, 2012 at 9:58 p.m.
chet123 said...

JONESES....I CONSTANTLY HEAR RACIST LIKE YOU SAY WHY DONT BLACK PEOPLE FOCUS ON BLACK ON BLACK CRIME.....

LISTEN BUTT HEAD....IN BLACK ON BLACK OR BLACK ON WHITE...PERPETRATOR IS GOING TO PRISON OR EXECUTION....NOT SENT HOME WITH THEIR GUNS

THIS IS WHY YOU ARE SUCH A RED NECK IDIOT....YOU AND WALLY...ONLY IN THE DEEP SOUTH!

March 27, 2012 at 10:14 p.m.
Cojee said...

Tu_quoque: "The state of Florida is such a target rich area that it is the only state with its own listing." Not everyone in Florida is ignorant, uneducated, or stupid. In 1964, only 25% of my graduating class was born in Florida. Today, 66% are transplants from elsewhere, including our Zombie Governor Bat Boy, who was elected by transplanted carpetbaggers like himself even though he is well known to be guilty of Medicare fraud and bought his office for $75 million of that stolen money. I personally was not born in Florida either, being 5th-gen Oklahoman and 9th-gen (at least) AL-GA-SC. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to be proud of the non-indigenous portion of my heritage, but at least none of us has ever been from Tennessee.

March 27, 2012 at 11:47 p.m.
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