published Sunday, October 21st, 2012

The Poll

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Salsa said...

Don't look now but your double standard is showing. Obama can lie with the best of them and does it smoothly.

October 21, 2012 at 12:03 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Once again: the stimulus will keep unemployment below 8% and bring it below 6% by A.D. 2012...Solyndra jobs will last forever...O'Romneycare will cover everyone without raising costs, and pay doctors less without reducing the supply of doctors, and let everyone (except Roman Catholics?) keep their existing insurance if they want to, and not change full-time insured jobs into part-time uninsured jobs...We can raise taxes without reducing the activity taxed (except that taxes do reduce smoking), but lowering taxes will not bring money out of the woodwork into the taxable zone... It's "above my pay grade" to judge whether the murder of little babies is evil...Obamacare is not a tax and I won't raise taxes on anyone making under a quarter-million a year...

Virgil Goode (Constitution Party) for President, or compromise on Mitt Romney, or try to get Gary Johnson (Libertarian Party) into single digits.

The devil is a liar and the father of it. "Dreams from my father"...

October 21, 2012 at 12:27 a.m.
hambone said...

Andrew, you need to quit buying your drugs on the street.

Sounds like you've got a holt of some bad stuff!

October 21, 2012 at 12:56 a.m.
dude_abides said...

chirp... chirp... [tumbleweed rolls by]... yawn... click.

October 21, 2012 at 1:09 a.m.
alprova said...

hambone wrote: "Andrew, you need to quit buying your drugs on the street. Sounds like you've got a holt of some bad stuff!"

I don't think Andrew uses drugs. But...if you will look closely in the video below, you will see a bottle of wine that is two-thirds empty.

October 21, 2012 at 1:47 a.m.
EaTn said...

This Mitt nose not only grows with lies, it stretches as Romney stretches his "facts". The right-wing philosophy of keeping gullible voters uninformed while feeding them propaganda has been successful over the past few years.

October 21, 2012 at 5:40 a.m.
degage said...

To bad clay can't remember all the lies Obama has told to cover his a$$. He put the wrong name on panochio.

October 21, 2012 at 6:03 a.m.
WHS1970 said...

God save our country.

October 21, 2012 at 6:36 a.m.
h_beecher_stowe said...

Mr. Bennett, this cartoon demonstrates how your political bias interprets what you see and hear. Either you are unaware of how you are blinded by this or you are unfortunately involved with spreading the type of propaganda all journalists supposedly abhor. The CTFP needs to question whether this is benfiting our community. I think not.

October 21, 2012 at 6:39 a.m.
Cactus said...

Obama excuses: "I will cut the deficit in half"..."I will bring the country together, no more blue states or red states, only purple states"..."Pass this stimulus and I will bring unemployment below 6%"..."It's Bush's fault"..."The recession was deeper than I thought"..."Congress is the problem"..."The earthquake in Japan is the reason"..."ATMs are causing unemployment"..."I was too busy to introduce comprehensive immigration reform"..."Romney is lying"..."Give me four more years so I can continue to fly on Air Force One, play golf, play basketball, hang with Hollywood stars, and give teleprompter speeches"...

October 21, 2012 at 6:59 a.m.
fairmon said...

Odds makers (Root, one of the biggest) recently put the odds at 120 to 100 Romney. You want to make some money put up 80 to win 100 on Obama. It would be crazy to put up 120 to win 100 betting on Romney. It appears the Vegas odds makers know more about sports than politics. They have no idea how much Obama is about to spend attacking his opponent with no regard for facts or fairness. They seem to discount voter gullibility, ignorance and greed, the same people and traits they use to fleece them on other bets. I can't see Obama losing even though I detest his political philosophy.

October 21, 2012 at 7 a.m.
rolando said...

Bennett draws what he is paid to draw, h-stowe. There is nothing complicated about him. Plain and simple, his drawings reflect the political bias of his employers and that's why they hired him.

October 21, 2012 at 7:06 a.m.
patriot1 said...

Looks like Obama polls are on the same trajectory as the meteor showers....and flaming out.

October 21, 2012 at 7:52 a.m.

It was the VIDEO. Appeasement would be working were it not for the VIDEO.

Frank and Dodd had NOTHING to do with the financial collapse.

Health care providers are WELCOMING Obamacare with open arms.

Employers are hiring people left and right due to this far-sighted, GUTSY piece of legislation.

We’ve got Al-Qaeda ON THE RUN.

October 21, 2012 at 8:28 a.m.
miraweb said...

Funny how there is never even one post that will say, "No - Romney isn't lying, he always says what he thinks and never stretches the truth."

You would think just one of Romney defenders would go that way but they never do.

Video is a harsh task master.

October 21, 2012 at 8:40 a.m.
miraweb said...

While Romney really, really, really wants to become a real president his chances of becoming a "real boy" seem a bit more remote:

"To become a real boy, you must prove yourself brave, truthful, and unselfish." - Pinocchio

October 21, 2012 at 8:49 a.m.
miraweb said...

Also - nooga - very nice one yesterday. I rather enjoyed that.

October 21, 2012 at 8:52 a.m.
Oz said...

Clay is such a great Cartoon joURINAList.

October 21, 2012 at 8:56 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

This is a great example of how Bennett's partisanship makes him look like a complete dork. When reality does not fit the Obama administration narrative the MO is perfectly consistent, LIE!

I have never seen an administration that so routinely uses lies to cover their failures and the less savoury parts of their agenda. Romney has consistency problems, but changing your position is different from calculated, purposeful lying.

Members of the MSM and hackers like Clay facilitate the administration's ability to lie with near impunity by projecting the dangerous behaviour onto others.

October 21, 2012 at 8:57 a.m.
MTJohn said...

WHS1970 said..."God save our country."

What makes you think our country deserves divine intervention?

October 21, 2012 at 9:09 a.m.
ricardo said...

miraweb said..."To become a real boy, you must prove yourself brave, truthful, and unselfish." - Pinocchio

Romney will remain an unemployed wooden puppet next month.

October 21, 2012 at 9:45 a.m.
mymy said...

Winners act like winners. Losers act like losers. And according to members of the same media elite who have spent months protecting him, Barack Obama is now looking like a loser in the closing days of his reelection campaign. This morning, a few members of the elite "Gang of 500," including Time's Mark Halperin, The National Journal's Ron Fournier, ABC's Terry Moran, and Politico's Roger Simon, publicly voiced their disapproval of a campaign they describe as "belittling," "not confident," "peevish" and worse:

Uh, oh.

In 1984, President Reagan ran on "Morning In America." In 1996, President Clinton ran on a "Bridge to the 21st Century." In the final days of successful reelection campaigns, both Reagan and Clinton offered a unifying message meant to bring the country together. Their closing arguments were uplifting, forward-looking, and optimistic.

Flash-forward to 2012 and all we've seen from the man who promised us hope, change, and a new kind of politics is a nakedly cynical divide and conquer crusade that's only gotten worse in its closing days. While Romney focuses his closing argument on the future, his agenda, and the realities of governing, our president is literally going all in on Big Bird, contraception, Binder-gate, "Romnesia," and aids flanking him at rallies holding signs that read: "Women's Health Security."

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/20/Media-Elite-Fret-Over-Obamas-Small-Campaign

16 Days to Go!

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country/National Security here/abroad and the growing debt.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Romney/Ryan 2012

October 21, 2012 at 10:28 a.m.
limric said...

Good cartoon today Clay, and it's true that Mitt is every bit the Pinocchio. Don't vote for him. I certainly won’t. But will truthiness really be the measure of campaign 2012 between these two?

Let’s take a trip down memory lane, back to the Campaign of 2008.

Warning: You may experience disorientation, vertigo, rage or in the worst case - denial.

Obama's Campaign 2008 Promises:
1. Reform NAFTA
2. Punish the telecoms for domestic spying under Bush administration
3. Close Guantanamo
4. Withdraw from Iraq
5. Economic stimulus  
6. Openness in government

Obama's Actual Presidential Policies:
1. Obama institutes secret trade deal with Asia-Pacific; NAFTA/GATT
continues as before
2. Obama's justice department drops prosecution of telcoms and
Bushies for violating FISA laws. Obama's NSA signing opens domestic spying
center in Utah. Justice Department prosecutes antiwar protesters and
whistle blowers. Habeas corpus suspensions under Bush continue. Obama
institutes secret assassination program subject to his decree.
Bush's torture-by-proxy policy continues under Obama as official
U.S. policy. CIA torture prosecutions dropped
3. Guantanamo continues to hold people without trial, which is
illegal, even if you call them "enemy combatants." Supposed black
sites abroad said to be closed, but we don't get the details.
Extraordinary rendition is U.S. policy
4. Obama continues occupation of Iraq. Thousands of troops and
mercenaries guard massive U.S. embassy complex in Iraq, but aren't labeled combat troops.

U.S. and foreign oil companies back in business in devastated Iraq. And we’re paying the rebuilding costs.

 5. Weak economic stimulus mostly goes to the banksters,

who use $800 billion in U.S. public funds to buy other banks and pay themselves bonuses, while foreclosing on homeowners. No criminal prosecutions of banksters. Obama's one claim to fame, the bailout of General Motors, averting a full blown depression.

 6. He has prosecuted more whistle blowers

under the Espionage act and threatened more journalists than all other presidents combined when he promised to have a transparent presidency.

Continued below:

October 21, 2012 at 10:29 a.m.
limric said...
There's more of course. Those are just the promises
I can remember off the top of my head. While many thought Obama to
be a "liberal" during Campaign 2008, with his FDR references and his
"hope and change" mantra, and it was a contrast to the criminal Bush
administration agenda, it didn't turn out that way did it?  After
he was elected president Obama explained that he is a ‘conservative kind of
guy,’ but there were plenty of hints beforehand. Many though (and that includes me), were
quite ready to drink the hope and change Kool-Aid after all of the
Bush abuses and his smirking chimp attitude. Now, it's pretty clear
that Obama's policies are slightly to the right of George W. Bush's,
but yet people's memory is constantly paved over and many just  can't seem to
remember the bad stuff from a week ago, much less a period of four
years. And so, under those circumstances, lying seems to be
‘accepted’ as a new normal. Apologists for Obama are even now begging
him to give us some lie that he won't cut social spending, even
though that's part of his plan. Anyone want to place bets otherwise?  
Would that it was true that lying was the death knell for candidates in the United States.

However, it seems people here just don't remember, or don’t want to.

Noam Chomsky said, “The Republican organization today is extremely dangerous, not just to this country, but to the world.” He’s right.

I don’t ‘support' Obama, but I vigorously oppose the current Republican Party. So, I’m one of those ‘undecided’ voters. My indecisiveness points to the only two I respect, Gary Johnson (Libertarian) or Jill Stein (Green).

October 21, 2012 at 10:31 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

limric: It takes a set to quote Norm Chomsky, comrade.

October 21, 2012 at 10:39 a.m.
limric said...

Jack, It takes a dull mind to deny intellect, hence your Republican affiliation.

October 21, 2012 at 10:49 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MTJohn: Does Iran?

October 21, 2012 at 10:49 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Jack - "less evil" does not mean "good". We are accountable for our own behavior. The answer to the prayer, "God save our country", begins with heeding the words of the prophet Amos.

October 21, 2012 at 11:04 a.m.
MTJohn said...

limric said..."Noam Chomsky said, “The Republican organization today is extremely dangerous, not just to this country, but to the world.” He’s right."

Chomsky is correct. But, don't listen to him, listen objectively to Karl Rove. He has aggressively fund-raised among a few wealthy donors and used that money to fund the most virulent campaign commercials. Rove has been rather candid about advocating one-party rule. One-party rule would be good for the folks who fund Crossroads GPS. It certainly would not be good for this country and could easily devolve into WWIII.

October 21, 2012 at 11:13 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Well, boys, intellect seems to rest in the realm of the lefties. Or so they claim. Using Chomsky as a model is sheer lunacy. Most people grow out of the Chomsky phase. Hoping limric and MT are just yoots.

October 21, 2012 at 11:28 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BigRidgePatriot claims: “Romney has consistency problems, but changing your position is different from calculated, purposeful lying."

Please, BigRidgePatriot. . . Lets be honest here. . . You know as well as I that Mitt Romney does both. . . He lies consistently and changes his political stances regularly.

October 21, 2012 at 12:03 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

You're right laurel. And BHO beleives that marriage is between a man and a woman. Or was he taken out of context?

October 21, 2012 at 12:10 p.m.
miraweb said...

Mitt even makes things up when the truth would serve him quite nicely.

True: I was approached by a number of women's groups in Massachusetts and worked with them to improve our record of qualified women in government.

Not True: "I went to a number of women's groups and said, "Can you help us find folks," and they brought us whole binders full of women."

Gilding the False Lily: "Governor Romney went out and agressively championed, mentored women [and] put them in leadership positions." - Romney campaign rep Kerry Healey the following day.


Sometimes you can't tell what version is really true at all:


Mitt 1.0 I'm not concerned about the very poor. There's a safety net there, and if it needs repair I'll fix it. I'm not concerned about the very rich, they're doing just fine. I'm concerned about the heart of America, the 95% of Americans who are right now struggling.

Mitt 2.0 Well, there are 47% of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. There are 47% who are with him--who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they’re entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it. It’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. These are people who pay no income tax. My job is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.

Mitt 3.0 Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less . . . Let me tell you, George, the fundamentals of my tax policy are these. Number one, reduce tax burdens on middle-income people. So no one can say my plan is going to raise taxes on middle-income people, because principle number one is keep the burden down on middle-income taxpayers.

Mitt 4.0 My campaign is about the 100% of America. And I’m concerned about them . . . this is a campaign about helping people who need help and right now, the people who are poor in this country need help getting out of poverty, the people in the middle class need help because their incomes have gone down every year for the last four years.


Will the real Mitt Romney please stand up!

October 21, 2012 at 12:34 p.m.
yaffay said...

A liberal, a moderate, and a conservative walk in a bar. The bartender says, "Hi,Mitt."

October 21, 2012 at 12:48 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

an atheist, a mullah, and an african walk in a bar. THE bartender says, "Hi, Barry"

October 21, 2012 at 12:56 p.m.
limric said...

Quote Jack Dennis “Most people grow out of the Chomsky phase.”

Really?

I think not my conservative tool. Only the complacent, those with short attention spans, depthless of critical thought, science deniers, overly religious and the anti-intellectual grow out of “the Chomsky phase”.

Thus, it has given way to the likes of ‘those bastions of intellect and values’ (repeated from yesterday) - Rep. Loy “Why didn’t Jesus condemn it” defender of the slave trade Mauch. GOP candidate Charlie “Death penalty for crappy kids and sterilization for crappy parents” Fuqua. Two members of the House Science Committee, Paul “Evolution and the big bang theory are lies straight from the pit of Hell." Broun. Rep. Tod “legitimate rape” Akin. Paul “the voucher” Ryan. And most importantly Mitt “Corporations are people too my friend” Romney. Or, Mitt “I can't remember what I said but I stand with whatever it was I said, and that’s what I stand behind.” Romney.

I could go on but you get the idea.

Class dismissed!!

October 21, 2012 at 12:57 p.m.
miraweb said...

yaffay - that's my favorite joke all week. Nicely done!

The good news: if you are ever playing poker with Mitt and want to know his "tell" - just wait for him to toss in a random statistic that ends in a percentage. It seems to be a pretty good guide that Mitt just made something up.

October 21, 2012 at 1:07 p.m.
miraweb said...

I may be growing out of my Jack Dennis phase.

October 21, 2012 at 1:08 p.m.
hambone said...

I don't know if Romney and Ryan are lying.

But I do think that they are intentionally mistaken a lot !

October 21, 2012 at 1:12 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

mira: How unfortunate for you. Your myopic eye is not your friend.

October 21, 2012 at 1:14 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

mountainlaurel said... "Please, BigRidgePatriot. . . Lets be honest here. . . You know as well as I that Mitt Romney does both. . . He lies consistently and changes his political stances regularly."

I expect that they both lie, but I can only think of specific examples wrt Obama. Personally, I think any politician that lies to the voters should be removed from office. The press should pursue the truth relentlessly. Instead they cover for their lord and master Obama.

October 21, 2012 at 1:22 p.m.
miraweb said...

I see well enough. This election is a fairly simple choice:

Bring back the team that exploded the deficit, created a quagmire with two wars, and crashed the world economy causing massive unemployment.

Or don't.

It's your call.

October 21, 2012 at 1:23 p.m.
fairmon said...

whats_wrong

Thanks for posting the excellent video. This is even better than the 60 minutes segment I watched. Lara Logan is one brave and intelligent woman. I hope all here will watch the video. Very few understand the connection between the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, who they really are and their objectives. It appears they are much more dedicated to destroying us and our way of life than we are to defending it due primarily to our gullibility and our gullible leadership in both parties.

October 21, 2012 at 1:28 p.m.
miraweb said...

One specific example:

India has much the same problem with Pakistan now that we do: terrorist attacks. General Petraeus in his new job leading the CIA is moving towards targeted anti-terrorism campaigns with more use of drones.

The NeoCons want us to start shipping massive amounts of weapons into India that will inevitably start an arms race with Pakistan - that will inevitably push a flood of weapons into the tribal regions and Afghanistan.

We can do the smart thing that Petraeus is proposing or the very dangerous things that Kagan, Mitt's lead foreign policy advisor, wants us to do.

Kagan's plan does make a lot of money for the arms producers and dealers, but the world becomes much more unstable.

The NeoCons have never transitioned from cold war thinking to dealing with very real threats in a whole new situation. When you listen to Mitt talk about foreign policy, you are hearing their exact talking points.

If you liked the Bush years - you'll like what's coming because it is the very same crowd, just a little dustier and, perhaps, little more senile.

October 21, 2012 at 1:35 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Wow, Mira: You've taken complicated issues and condensed them down to simplicity. Thanks so much.

October 21, 2012 at 1:46 p.m.
miraweb said...

As the old nobel prize winning physicist once said, "If you can't explain it to a six-year old, you don't understand it yourself."

If the kitchen catches fire everytime John is on shift, it might be time to be sure John finds another job.

October 21, 2012 at 1:58 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "I see well enough. This election is a fairly simple choice"

Yeah. Vote for the parties that treat us like livestock with an economic value that needs to be maximised and controlled, or vote for Gary Johnson.

October 21, 2012 at 2:01 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Jack_Dennis said..."Most people grow out of the Chomsky phase. Hoping limric and MT are just yoots."

Jack - please re-read what I said. I did not encourage people to listen to Chomsky - I encourage them to pay attention to what Karl Rover has said and what he is doing.

October 21, 2012 at 2:05 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "As the old nobel prize winning physicist once said, "If you can't explain it to a six-year old, you don't understand it yourself."

Is that why the democrats are so clearly understood and loved by their constituents?

Free stuff good!

Responsibility and Work Bad!

October 21, 2012 at 2:06 p.m.
miraweb said...

Another example:

Kagan also has a plan for us to begin flooding Japan with weapons.

You have to ask yourself: how many billions to we add to our deficit so that Japan and China can proceed with a pissing match over some rock that sits between them whose name we don't even know?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19811387

October 21, 2012 at 2:14 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "how many billions to we add to our deficit so that Japan and China can proceed with a pissing match over some rock that sits between them whose name we don't even know?"

None! I'd be happy to sell Japan all the weapons they want, at a profit, but they need to start taking care of themselves.

October 21, 2012 at 2:29 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Limric says: “I don’t ‘support' Obama, but I vigorously oppose the current Republican Party. So, I’m one of those ‘undecided’ voters. My indecisiveness points to the only two I respect, Gary Johnson (Libertarian) or Jill Stein (Green).”

You can’t be that vigorously opposed to the current Republican Party and all of its right wing idealogues, Limric. If you were, I think you’d remember that the next president can expect to replace one, perhaps two, Supreme Court justices.

Romney has let it be known that he would nominate someone like Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, and Robert Bork. President Obama on the other hand has a very good track record with Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan. Personally, I’ve grown rather weary of right-wing idealogues and the damage they do:

“In 2010, in Citizens United v. FEC,2 a case that dealt originally with the question of whether the electioneering communications provisions of the McCain-Feingold Act apply to "pay-per-view" movies produced by not-for-profit entities, five Justices on the Court, including the two named by President Bush himself--Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito--reached out to ask a question that had not been posed to them. They then answered it, announcing that private businesses – including for-profit corporations - have a right to spend as much money as they want to elect or defeat candidates in political campaigns at all levels. The decision reversed numerous Supreme Court precedents and toppled dozens of long-standing campaign finance laws at the federal and state level, clearing the field to permanently remake America's popular democracy into something like a "corporate democracy."

Americans across the spectrum have been startled and appalled by the Citizens United decision, which will "open the floodgates for special interests—including foreign companies—to spend without limit in our elections," as President Obama said in his 2010 State of the Union Address. According to a Washington Post nationwide poll, more than 80% of the American people reject the Court's conclusion that a business corporation is a member of the political community entitled to the same free speech rights as citizens.3

Yet, the Court's watershed ruling is the logical expression of an activist pro-corporatist jurisprudence that has been bubbling up for many decades on the Court but has gained tremendous momentum over the last generation. Since the Rehnquist Court, there have been at least five justices—and sometimes more—who tilt hard to the right when it comes to a direct showdown between corporate power and the public interest. During the Roberts Court, this trend has continued and intensified. Although there is still some fluidity among the players, it is reasonable to think of a reliable "corporate bloc" as having emerged on the Court.

http://www.pfaw.org/media-center/publications/rise-corporate-court-how-supreme-court-putting-businesses-first

October 21, 2012 at 2:33 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

laurel: running a close second to ALPO as paster of the day.

October 21, 2012 at 2:39 p.m.
miraweb said...

Which Mitt is it?

At the debate Tuesday

"I will not grant amnesty to illegal immigrants."

Mitt's Spanish-language ad today:

A program to "reunite families, establish a program of work visas, and create permanent solutions for undocumented youth."

October 21, 2012 at 2:47 p.m.
hambone said...

The GOP wants a higher budget for the military. Which explains why they are so anti abortion.

A higher birth rate will provide more cannon fodder for future wars !

October 21, 2012 at 2:48 p.m.
miraweb said...

If you speak Spanish (I do) you will notice that Romney has a really tragic accent when he reads (in Spanish) "I am Mitt Romney and I approve this ad."

It looks even worse when you compare it with Obama's new ad where he speaks clearly, fluently, and entirely in Spanish for the full 30 seconds. There are one or two words that get slightly mangled (hijas) but it is very good.

October 21, 2012 at 2:59 p.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Whatever it takes to get rid of King Kenyan.

October 21, 2012 at 3:28 p.m.
miraweb said...

It's a lot tougher to get to the White House when 50 million people can tell that you didn't care enough to practice the one line of Spanish that you speak in your ad.

October 21, 2012 at 3:35 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Scott DesJarlais Supporters Sticking With Him

You betcha!

October 21, 2012 at 3:38 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira: Thanks for the primer on spanish accents. That's terribly important information.

October 21, 2012 at 3:41 p.m.
limric said...

Quote Mountainlaurel, “You can’t be that vigorously opposed to the current Republican Party and all of its right wing idealogues, Limric. If you were, I think you’d remember that the next president can expect to replace one, perhaps two, Supreme Court justices.”

I am well aware of, and am appalled by the ‘Citizens United’ ruling. Were you equally appalled by the ‘Kelo v. City of New London’? I certainly was. Conversely; Were you pleased with the ‘District of Columbia v. Heller’ or ‘McDonald v. City of Chicago’ decisions? I was.

But I just have to ask you Mountainlaurel. Just exactly how bad does a democratic presidential candidate have to get before we should no longer vote for him?

Is it OK to stop voting for him when he puts a commission together that is skewed far enough to the right that its guaranteed to recommend cuts to social programs that Americans depend on for their very survival?

Is it OK to stop voting for him when he refuses to bring ANY prosecution of the banksters that caused a world wide near depression by their criminal acts?

Is it OK to stop voting for him because he has prosecuted more whistle-blowers under the Espionage act than all other presidents combined when he promised to have a transparent presidency?

Is it OK to stop voting for him when he flies drones over multiple countries killing innocent people? Is it OK to stop voting for him when he says he has the right to kill you or anyone you love and/or detain you or them indefinitely without a trial?

Is it OK to stop voting for him when he kills a US citizen and his son without due process?

Is it OK to not vote for him when he sold arms illegally to a neighboring country resulting in many deaths, and then covering up a class I felony?

He has done all of the above, and yet you are ostensibly saying I should still hold my nose and vote for Obama. My atheist conscience can't abide by that. Read my earlier post again. He has already killed Americans without due process and wants to be able to do it to more of us. Again, exactly how bad does a democratic president have to get before we get the OK from left wing to NOT vote for him?

Cont.

October 21, 2012 at 3:42 p.m.
limric said...

Your concern that Romney would most likely get to appoint more than one Supreme Court Justice is a legitimate one, but remember, all nominees must be accepted by the Senate. All the right wing hacks that are currently sitting there now are there because of the approval of the Democrats that were in power at the time of their appointments. We have Citizens United because of the lack of backbone and/or gleeful approval of Democratic Senators who voted for the right wing nut jobs that now sit on the highest court in the land. If Romney puts any right wing wackos on the Supreme Court it will have to be done with the tacit approval of some democrats. So exactly how are they the lesser of two evils? If we don't push back on the Democrats why should they ever stop their incessant march to the far right?

Again, how evil is too evil before they no longer deserve our votes?

Now I ask you - How can you justify a vote for a guy who does these things?

October 21, 2012 at 3:43 p.m.
miraweb said...

Mitt, the English major (true) should know that how you handle language matters a lot. You shouldn't blow your own message out of the water with a very amateurish mistake.

October 21, 2012 at 3:48 p.m.
TOES02800 said...
October 21, 2012 at 3:51 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Fluke getting maximum milage out of her ovaries. Which is to say, not many.

October 21, 2012 at 4:07 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

"transparency" "it's not a tax" "shovel ready jobs" "cutting national debt" "marriage is between a man and a woman" "i'll close gitmo" "it's not a tax" "not one dime on $250.000 or less"..........

Obama's a liar.

http://obamalies.net/obama-says-hell-save-average-family-8000-in-gas.html

Any takers?

October 21, 2012 at 4:16 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

TOES: Wait a minute, pal. That's different.

October 21, 2012 at 4:18 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

As it turns out the reason the unemployment rate dropped to "7.8%" was because one particular state didn't report on time. That state is California. It also turns out that the man in charge of reporting California's unemployment numbers on time is an Obama donor.

Isn't THAT convenient? Yet another prime example of democrat number toying.

October 21, 2012 at 4:26 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Calif. official whose agency under-reported unemployment stats was Obama campaign donor

http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/18/calif-official-whose-agency-under-reported-unemployment-stats-was-obama-campaign-donor/#ixzz29y3HrvpF

Anything for the king!

October 21, 2012 at 4:31 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_Dennis is feeling his oats today! That's refreshing, because when he's smarmy with the ladies it is sick-making.

Guess what Jack_? Your country is moving inexorably away from all you stand for. Women and minorities will erase all the crap your type has installed to stay in control of the resources and people of this country. You'll all be tossed on the same scrap heap as Lester Maddox and George Wallace. Your legacy will forever include bombing little black girls at Sunday school. Sink your gums into that.

October 21, 2012 at 4:31 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_ You're truly one sick s.o.b......I honestly hope you don't represent the left.

October 21, 2012 at 4:36 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

"Your legacy will forever include bombing little black girls at Sunday school".

Those were democrats fool.

October 21, 2012 at 4:37 p.m.
miraweb said...

TOES - that may explain why Gallup's unemployment numbers were so out of synch with the administration's.

The official number was 7.8%. Gallup's number this week is 7.4%.

Overall unemployment would have been lower, not higher, if California somehow wasn't in the final numbers.

California had the second largest drop in the country last month (10.6 to 10.2) and it has a large population.

Or that whole story could just be the latest in Karl Rove's fiction-writing contests.

http://blog.sfgate.com/pender/2012/10/19/california-unemployment-drops-to-10-2-percent-in-september/

October 21, 2012 at 4:40 p.m.
miraweb said...

I suspect the people who hate Citizens United more than anyone are the upstanding citizens of Ohio. I have call blocking and I tend not to be nasty with the poor sods on the telephone. They aren't the problem, they're just a symptom.

I did do some volunteer work for the Warren campaign. When they asked if I would make phone calls, I said no. If I don't want to get those calls, I'm not going to make those calls.

And you're welcome.


"The more I see Romney, the less I like," says Kay Martin, who lives in the Denver suburb of Arvada. And if not generating a backlash, some of that political activity is surely just wasted energy.

Gwynnen Chervenic, in Alexandria, has taught her kids to yell "lies" any time a political ad comes on. "I'm trying to make sure they develop a healthy skepticism about the election PR process," she explains. "Makes me laugh every time and should help ease the pain until Election Day."

A Fairfax County woman who's a strong Romney supporter emails: "I don't mind telling the Romney campaign or the RNC (Republican National Committee) that I am voting for Romney, but why do I have to tell them that MULTIPLE times?"

She's ready to start giving out a phony phone number. But she doesn't want to be identified by name - because her husband's working for the Romney campaign. And, yes, she even went with him recently to knock on doors.

"But I was so uncomfortable knocking on people's doors in the evening because I felt like I was doing the very thing that bothers me," she admitted.

John Geer, a political science professor at Vanderbilt University, says it's the political equivalent of an arms race, and neither side dares stop the carpet bombing. "We don't know exactly where saturation occurs, but I think we're way past that," he says.

For those from less competitive states, the number and tone of ads can be jarring. "I think people are just upset about the lies," says Pamela Ash, a 66-year-old Obama volunteer from Arizona who's been visiting her brother in Ohio to help the campaign. "Enough already. I just can't stand it."

Even the people making the calls understand the annoyance. Maria Buzzi estimates that 10 percent to 15 percent of the calls she makes during her volunteer shift at Romney's Stow, Ohio, offices end with frustrations.

"I've been called a G-D, F-ing B," the 67-year-old retired nurse and grandmother said. "I'm a sensitive person and they are just vicious. It hurts my feelings and I take it personally. But I really want to help Mitt Romney."

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121021/NEWS11/121029974/-1/NEWSMAP

October 21, 2012 at 5:05 p.m.
dude_abides said...

tu_, you are sooo enigmatic with your atheism juxtaposed with your political views that seem to fit so well with the religious right. Quit flogging that, it's tiresome.

October 21, 2012 at 5:14 p.m.
dude_abides said...

toes... are you sure you couldn't find some way to make a living back in Pennsylvania? There're enough racist pigs down here without you. Your voice is just another shrill chicken squawk.

October 21, 2012 at 5:16 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_, "At about 10:22 a.m., twenty-six children were walking into the basement assembly room to prepare for the sermon entitled “The Love That Forgives,” when the bomb exploded. Four girls, Addie Mae Collins (age 14), Denise McNair (age 11), Carole Robertson (age 14), and Cynthia Wesley (age 14), were killed in the attack."

Your political bedfellows own that murder. It alone should dissuade you from adhering to that pompous cynicism. Didn't even read the names and ages, did you Jack_?

October 21, 2012 at 5:28 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Sick of this website losing entire posts. Over.

October 21, 2012 at 5:30 p.m.
miraweb said...

I agree on the website issue.

This server is hard-crashing about every 8th post. It looks like either there are not enough working connections or that they just have so many ad servers connected now that the site itself just can't load.

I'm seeing the stylesheet fail to load about every 4th or 5th load.

Right now I am signing out completely, cleaning out the cache and signing back in because it is impossible to load the pages otherwise.

The biggest hangs seem to be coming on pix.timesfreepress.com and on google map connections (why is it even connecting to google maps?)

Don't know if there are any tech people down there or if it is all outsourced, but the tfp site is far from stable.

Now back to your regular mudslinging.

Over.

October 21, 2012 at 5:50 p.m.
dude_abides said...

lol

October 21, 2012 at 5:54 p.m.
miraweb said...

Who's Your Daddy?

The BBC put together a nice page on the top 10 political donors. I suppose the good news from this list is that the average age of the GOP donors looks pretty high.

In about 10 years all of that money will be in the hands of their heirs. We know how much fun heirs can be.

I'm lookin' at you, Paris Hilton.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20008689

October 21, 2012 at 6:05 p.m.
dude_abides said...

This is some funkyweird stuff! This is what you want us to vote for?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c4a_1350780176

October 21, 2012 at 6:20 p.m.
miraweb said...

The ritual is genuine. The pop-ups are not entirely accurate. Strangely enough, the video begins with a shot of the Salt Lake Temple, but I can guarantee that the room at the end is not the celestial room of the Salt Lake Mormon Temple.

Again - it's no longer my team, but in my view a lot of religions have some pretty strange quirks. Burning bushes, walking on water? Easter bunnies?

October 21, 2012 at 6:36 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: way over the line, son. Your leftist brethren on here should condemn you last several posts. If they have any stones.

October 21, 2012 at 6:48 p.m.
miraweb said...

Yeah, but then I would have to go back to condemn the cheap shot "King Kenyan" and a joke somebody made about "an atheist, a mullah, and an african" . . .

I may not have much of a life but cleaning up the swamp is not the only thing I want to do today.

October 21, 2012 at 6:54 p.m.
dude_abides said...

miraweb... I'm just enjoying seeing the intolerant fundaMENTALists choke on their newfound religious flavor..uh, fervor.

October 21, 2012 at 7:29 p.m.
ricardo said...

Embrace the cult you ignorant conservatards.

October 21, 2012 at 7:33 p.m.
miraweb said...

Seems like placing intimidating billboards only in minority neighborhoods energized the wrong base. Clear Channel, a subsidiary of Bain Capital, has decided to take down the controversial Ohio and Wisconsin billboards under pressure to name the client who ordered them.

After discussions, the sponsor, whom Clear Channel Outdoor has called a "private family foundation" but declined to name, "thought the best solution was to take the boards down, so we are in the process of removing them," the company said in a statement.

Crews on Monday will begin taking down 30 billboards in Cleveland, 30 in Columbus and 85 in Milwaukee, Jim Cullinan, vice president of corporate communications for Clear Channel Outdoor, told Reuters.

Cleveland City Councilwoman Phyllis Cleveland, one of the most vocal critics of the billboards, told Reuters on Sunday: "Needless to say I'm happy they will be taken down but I want to know who was behind this in the first place."

In response to the outcry, Clear Channel Outdoor donated 10 billboards around the Cleveland area that read "Voting Is a Right. Not a Crime!"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/21/us-ohio-voterfraud-billboards-idUSBRE89K0JA20121021

October 21, 2012 at 7:35 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_Dennis said... "dude_: way over the line, son. Your leftist brethren on here should condemn you last several posts. If they have any stones."

You crossed my line previously, little boy. So why don't you shut your mouth? You may find that, like they do with that piggy Toes, they'll allow me to exercise my right to speak freely. As soon as I get the memo that you're the arbiter of 'line drawing' I will do what you say, Il Duce.

October 21, 2012 at 7:37 p.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb said....

Overall unemployment would have been lower, not higher, if California somehow wasn't in the final numbers.

California had the second largest drop in the country last month (10.6 to 10.2) and it has a large population.

Let me get this right. You are saying had California been included in the national number the 7.8% would have been lower?

Your math and Romney's are similar if You suggest that adding the 10.2% of California's workers to the number of unemployed in America would move the national average down from 7.8% instead of up? I don't think you will find an accountant or economist that can do that trick with the numbers, not even Alprova.

October 21, 2012 at 7:39 p.m.
miraweb said...

I also think it is kind of cool that there is a councilwoman in Cleveland whose name is Phyllis Cleveland.

October 21, 2012 at 7:41 p.m.
miraweb said...

Yeah, but then you have to go after the Feast of the Seven Fishes, the blessing of the dogs, and anything associated with Manichevitz.

One person's beautiful and meaningful tradition is another's silly ritual.

October 21, 2012 at 7:43 p.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb....

Your math reminds me of the reason some say 9 of 10 women cannot estimate distances.

October 21, 2012 at 7:45 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Limric asked: “Just exactly how bad does a democratic presidential candidate have to get before we should no longer vote for him?”

Well, Limric, since I firmly believe that a Romney/Ryan presidency would be a disaster for this country, the democratic presidential candidate would have to be in the same league as Mitt Romney, which is clearly is not the case. I believe there are enormous differences between President Obama and Mitt Romney.

For starters, we’re talking about another cocky Republican presidential candidate who has no foreign policy experience, who wants to a $2 trillion increase in the military budget, and who is championing reckless neo-conserative pre-emptive war politics - the same group of individuals who peddled the "big lie" and ignored all of the warnings about a war in Iraq.

Well, Limric, thanks but thanks. We’ve been there, done that, and we’re still trying to recover from the nightmare. Clearly, America doesn't need a repeat performance from this crowd:

“As Paul Richter in the Los Angeles Times reported about Romney foreign policy, the former governor relies "on a group of about 200 outside advisors, campaign staff and other experts. About two-thirds are veterans of the Bush administration." These include:

John Bolton: “He is such a neocon war hawk that Mr. Bolton told officials in Israel that America's next targets after attacking Iraq would be Syria, Iran and North Korea.”

Dan Senor: “The former Bush spokesman in Iraq during Paul Bremer's disastrous "Provisional Authority" period when the Iraqi Army was disbanded and civil riots exploded.”

Robert Joseph: The National Security Council official who wrote the notorious "sixteen words" lie in President Bush's 2003 State of the Union speech that falsely claimed Iraq was trying to buy enriched uranium.

Eric Edelman: “Not only was an important Bush official in the Pentagon, but it was his suggestion to boss Dick Cheney that Scooter Libby "out" CIA covert agent Valerie Plame. He also served in the Defense Department and pressed to attack Iran.”

More Romney neo-cons at:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-j-elisberg/president-obama-whiffs-at_b_1979752.html

October 21, 2012 at 7:47 p.m.
ricardo said...

Mitt Romney should be convicted of candidate fraud.

October 21, 2012 at 7:49 p.m.
miraweb said...

As soon as someone besides Rush Limbaugh gets concerned about the BLS numbers I'll get excited.

The Baltimore Sun looked into it and found the following:

That is, of course, preposterous. The unemployment rate is calculated based on a monthly survey of 60,000 households called the Current Population Survey. It asks how many members of the household are employed and how many are looking for work. The states have no role in the process whatsoever.

The confusion appears to stem from the misinterpretation of an item published last week by Henry Blodget, the CEO and editor of Business Insider, a business and tech news website. He wrote a series of posts on Thursday about a surprisingly good report from BLS that initial jobless claims had dropped to 339,000 from 369,000 a week before. Early reporting indicated that the drop was mostly due to unexpectedly low numbers from a single, large state.

Later in the day, Mr. Blodget reported on an interview he had with an unnamed BLS analyst who said it appeared that California was the culprit and that it might not have processed all of its claims in time for the reporting deadline.

Both the California labor department and BLS later said that wasn't true and that the state had reported all of its data, though California's numbers for the week were particularly good. (State officials credited a strengthening economy and unusually good weather, which may have delayed normal seasonal effects on employment patterns.)

I'm afraid Rush Limbaugh won't be turning into a Real Boy anytime soon.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-10-16/news/bs-ed-california-unemployment-20121016_1_unemployment-rate-jobless-claims-california

October 21, 2012 at 7:58 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Finally! I now understand what the right is saying:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5d8_1350722773

October 21, 2012 at 8:17 p.m.
miraweb said...

I share a lot of the concerns that Limric brought up. Limric is not wrong. There are some very serious things that still need addressing and that are a real disappointment to still have hanging around.

That said, I think a revival of the NeoCons would be a massive disaster.

I have some hope that there is movement in the right direction on Guantanamo. The boy Omar Khadr's return to Canada and moving on the trials of the 9-11 conspirators shows, at least to me, that there is some good faith on getting this thing resolved in whatever way can be done.

I would prefer that Guantanamo just be declared a U.S. territory and get on with it, but I'm not in charge.

Yet. :-)

October 21, 2012 at 8:20 p.m.
miraweb said...

Actually, I prefer that Karl Rove have a life sentence in a cold, dark cell.

A girl can always dream.

October 21, 2012 at 8:24 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Best right wing conservative speech of the year:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=545_1350701518

October 21, 2012 at 8:27 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_ your pathetic childish blather is irritating. do us all a favor and stfu, II doosh.

October 21, 2012 at 8:36 p.m.
miraweb said...

For example: They are now building a high-tech cardiac cath lab at Guantanamo to take care of aging detainees. It will cost $2.6 million. This is on top of the court facilities and other infrastructure that is on the government tab.

We have maximum security facilities that have full medical capabilities. However, there are too members of Congress who start clutching their pearls rather than think about moving prisoners to existing medical facilities. So we're moving the facilities to the prisoners. Happy deficits everyone!

We've got detainees with prosthetics, we've got detainees who will have age-related things. Some who wish treatment, some who wish to refuse treatment and some who are in between," said Navy Capt. Robert Durand, the prison camps spokesman.

But with no end in sight to the detention center, Durand said, the military is looking at "the broader questions raised by an aging population: How would we do dialysis if we needed to? How would we do other kinds of medical procedures, and is there a capability we have to build here?"

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/09/29/aging-gitmo-captives-get-cardio-care-unit.html

October 21, 2012 at 8:40 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Hey, Jack_, let's stop the foolishness. I kinda like you, really. You're like the older brother I never had. The one that got held back a couple of times.

October 21, 2012 at 9:06 p.m.
miraweb said...

Aw, that's nice. And good timing.

I didn't want to have to bring up St. Patrick's Day and Purim.

How is Jesus like an Italian Grandmother?

They said 7 people were coming but when they arrived there was food for 5,000.

;)

October 21, 2012 at 9:12 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Hear about the new nonfat Communion wafers? They're called 'I Can't Believe It's Not The Body of Christ!'

I know, repeat.

October 21, 2012 at 9:27 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: no chance

October 21, 2012 at 9:31 p.m.
miraweb said...

Florida Voter Fraud Investigation Reaches 2600

Eugenia Huguenin says breast cancer killed her daughter long before a voter registration card with Michele Huguenin's name and supposed signature was filed this year in Palm Beach County.

Her name was on one of the disputed 106 voter registration forms gathered on behalf of the Republican Party that have spawned a statewide voter fraud investigation.

Elections officials found more questionable signatures, along with out of state residents requesting Florida voter cards. They also discovered addresses for car dealerships, gas stations, law offices and other commercial buildings listed as home addresses.

Some of the forms have since been verified as legitimate requests for actual voters. But now nearly 2,600 voter registration forms filed in Palm Beach County on behalf of the Republican Party are under scrutiny and similar discrepancies on voter forms have been found in at least 11 Florida counties.

Carl Downes said he and his wife Deborah recently received a phone call from the FDLE telling them their names were among those on the disputed voter registration forms.

Downes, who said he is a retired police officer, said he and his wife never asked to join the Republican Party, as the form indicated. They have long been registered as No Party Affiliation, he said.

Downes said he and his wife never met with anyone asking them to change their registration and they "never applied for anything." And Downes said he would have remembered because the August date listed on the form with his name was his son's birthday.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-10-19/news/fl-voter-fraud-victims-20121019_1_voter-registration-voter-fraud-elections-susan-bucher

October 21, 2012 at 9:35 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Hmmm. . . Looks like Romney will not be getting the Mormon feminist vote:

“Romney's awkward and tone deaf comments on women in Tuesday's debate did not sit well with this crew, who follow the teachings of Joseph Smith, but are pushing back against the church's chauvinistic ways.

Aimee Hickman, co-editor of a Mormon feminist magazine, told Reuters she didn't have a problem with the candidate's "binders full of women" comments so much as Romney's response to a question about pay equity. . . "The emphasis on them (women) being seen as leaders or them being seen as breadwinners is still really missing from our rhetoric," she said.

Lisa Butterworth, who runs the blog Feminist Mormon Housewives told Reuters, "I pretty much know every Mormon feminist, and I can't think of any of them that are going to vote for Romney."

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/10/mormon-feminists-romney-women

October 21, 2012 at 9:36 p.m.
limric said...

Mountainlaurel, I need to add this before retiring.

Calling Romney’s agenda (or whatever passes for one) "bereft of detail and worthy of mistrust," even his Mormon Vatican has had enough of Mittens. In an editorial that endorsed Obama (whoopsies), the Salt Lake Tribune blasted Romney as "shape-shifting...with breathtaking aplomb" to win at any cost.” Continuing with, "From his embrace of the party’s radical right wing, to subsequent portrayals of himself as a moderate champion of the middle class, Romney has raised the most frequently asked question of the campaign: 'Who is this guy, really, and what in the world does he truly believe?"

I posit there is no answer, or at least not one that would survive Romney’s next speech or sound bite. All politicians tailor their words to suit an audience. But Romney’s only real convictions/consistency is his undying shamelessness, like a preternatural creature, lavishing vastly diverse audiences with words, any words, they would trade their votes to hear...

The editorial fished with, “The president has earned a second term. Romney, in whatever guise, does not deserve a first."

Feel better now Mountainlaurel? Nighty night :-)

October 21, 2012 at 11:03 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

laurel: as for the Mormon feminists, there must be 11 of them.

October 21, 2012 at 11:22 p.m.
alprova said...

dudes_abides, I too am a Liveleak fan, and ran across both of those videos the other night.

Priceless...

October 21, 2012 at 11:55 p.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "dude_: way over the line, son. Your leftist brethren on here should condemn you last several posts. If they have any stones."

This?...coming from the one-line weenie who takes aim at everyone who dares offer a word of criticism of the Mittster?

Yeah...you're a fence sitter alright.

You offer unsolicited, inflammatory commentary in about 90% of your posts, and are the last person on Earth who has a legitimate gripe about anyone taking a potshot at you.

Don't forget to take that big 'ole spoonful of Geritol before you hit the bed.

October 22, 2012 at 12:06 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO; hahahaha, that alpo a funny boy. hahahahaha

October 22, 2012 at 12:11 a.m.
fairmon said...

An act of terror is not the same as an organized attack by a known terrorist group. Obama almost fell for the trap inadvertently made available by the moderator but if you recall his response before her interruption was "proceed governor" without answering Romney's question.

October 22, 2012 at 2:32 a.m.
fairmon said...

The third and most critical debate is primarily about foreign affairs. The incumbent insist on this since they receive or at least have access to daily briefings and other confidential information which as it should be the challenger does not. The incumbents have always considered this an advantage, it may or may not be...who knows?

October 22, 2012 at 6:47 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Harp: Only if the dozer n chief stayed awake for briefings.

October 22, 2012 at 7:13 a.m.
dude_abides said...

tu_quoque said...

"Oh No !! Looks like some of the MSM are wandering off TheObozo Plantation."

Never see Fox do that, do you tu_? Thanks for showing that this MSM conspiracy BS is exactly that, BS.

October 22, 2012 at 7:22 a.m.
fairmon said...

Where do the unemployment numbers come from? Decide for yourself how accurate they are. Assuming the 2200 highly trained and well paid are government employees? The number could be manipulated, was it? No way to know the answer to that. There is obviously a margin of error as there is in any poll. The prior month is often revised the following month.

Each month, 2,200 highly trained and experienced Census Bureau employees interview persons in the 60,000 sample households for information on the labor force activities (job holding and job seeking) or non-labor force status of the members of these households during the survey reference week (usually the week that includes the 12th of the month). At the time of the first enumeration of a household, the interviewer prepares a roster of the household members, including their personal characteristics (date of birth, sex, race, Hispanic ethnicity, marital status, educational attainment, veteran status, and so on) and their relationships to the person maintaining the household. This information, relating to all household members 15 years of age and over, is entered by the interviewers into laptop computers; at the end of each day's interviewing, the data collected are transmitted to the Census Bureau's central computer in Washington, D.C. (The labor force measures in the CPS pertain to individuals 16 years and over.) In addition, a portion of the sample is interviewed by phone through three central data collection facilities.

There are about 60,000 households in the sample for this survey. This translates into approximately 110,000 individuals, a large sample compared to public opinion surveys which usually cover fewer than 2,000 people. The CPS sample is selected so as to be representative of the entire population of the United States. In order to select the sample, all of the counties and county-equivalent cities in the country first are grouped into 2,025 geographic areas (sampling units). The Census Bureau then designs and selects a sample consisting of 824 of these geographic areas to represent each State and the District of Columbia. The sample is a State-based design and reflects urban and rural areas, different types of industrial and farming areas, and the major geographic divisions of each State.

Who said California was not included in the latest number? What is the basis for such an allegation? Was it limp wrist Limbaugh or crazy Chris Mathews?

October 22, 2012 at 7:32 a.m.
miraweb said...

Actually, Romney received his security clearance several weeks ago and has been getting an official daily briefing since then.

October 22, 2012 at 8:32 a.m.
miraweb said...

Rush and Fox News could give the Disney store a fair run for the number of Pinocchios found on the premises.

October 22, 2012 at 8:50 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "I agree on the website issue. This server is hard-crashing about every 8th post. It looks like either there are not enough working connections or that they just have so many ad servers connected now that the site itself just can't load."

Yep. Have you ever turned cookies off and seen how many this site is pushing? Google and Bing have nothing on the TFP, except the foresight / money / knowhow to put adequate resources on the overhead.

October 22, 2012 at 8:57 a.m.
conservative said...

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..

October 22, 2012 at 8:57 a.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb....

Written daily briefings summaries are not the same the live meetings and as it should be no one has access to unpublicized information.

Do you really believe one has earned more pinocchio's or is that measurement like the race, too close to call at this point. Gary Johnson has not wavered or misled anyone but gets about as much attention and media respect as Rodney Dangerfield joked about. It is sad how much control the media has over who is allowed to communicate what. One good example was when Anderson Cooper interrupted Ron Paul in the middle of a response and assured Ron Paul we will come back to you but never did nor was Ron Paul ask another question during that republican primary debate.

October 22, 2012 at 9:11 a.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb said... Actually, Romney received his security clearance several weeks ago and has been getting an official daily briefing since then.

Did Obama obtain a security clearance when he was running against McCain? The real question some of his opponents are asking is could he obtain one if he is not elected?

If I were advising Romney I would recommend these questions and a few more.....

Iran: Iran is showing no sign of responding to sanctions; negotiations have failed. If all options are on the table, what are they?

Romney has accused the president of projecting American weakness. It's something many allies (and enemies) perceive as well. How does Obama think he is going to restore American leadership in the world with a military that's suffering up to 10% per annum cuts, few new weapons systems, a debt service (interest) that by the end of the decade will cost more annually than the entire defense budget and a foreign policy made up of targeted assassinations and promises to end wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Both need to describe how they would assure we have the best trained, best equipped and most capable military in the world able to respond to an attack from any source. I would like to hear both of them assure we would never again be the aggressor nation but react aggressively with the intent of annihilation without regard for "collateral damage" if attacked.

October 22, 2012 at 9:42 a.m.
conservative said...

At least half of the voters have just one issue for voting and that is they want government to give them checks or programs and it is the ONLY issue that matters.

This is why Owebama's ads constantly charge that Romney will cut or change Socialism Security, Medicare, deny the voter healthcare etc..

Written around 1835!!! What Wisdom!!!

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.” ― Alexis de Tocqueville

October 22, 2012 at 10:03 a.m.
miraweb said...

I'm guessing after the last three years that Obama does know a lot more about the current state of the world than Romney. Kind of goes with the job.

October 22, 2012 at 10:14 a.m.
miraweb said...

During the Bush years the Pentagon budget more than doubled. There are a few more years of 10% cuts before we even get close to baseline. The costs of our wounded warriors will be with us for decades.

October 22, 2012 at 10:19 a.m.
miraweb said...

My understanding is the major party candidates have always had security briefings.

October 22, 2012 at 10:22 a.m.
timbo said...

This is a juvinile discussion. Romney lied, Obama lied...blah, blah, blah..... In politics lying is usually in the eye of the beholder. It can't be proven one way or the other. Why? Because you don't trust my source and I don't trust your source. I am voting for Romney no matter what any liberal says...I am sure you liberals are voting for Obama no matter what I say...

We should both just shut up and vote.

October 22, 2012 at 10:30 a.m.
conservative said...

Want to see the foolishness of Socialist planners?

Federal money (those few who pay taxes) financed $130,000 homes in a crime ridden neighborhood here in Chattanooga where homes are valued (over valued ) between $70,000 and $80,0000 dollars.

No private entity in their right mind would do such a crazy thing.

12 new Chattanooga Neighborhood Enterprise homes are sitting empty Chattanooga Neighborhood Enterprise headed a $1.8 million Bushtown/Orchard Knob neighborhood revitalization two years ago that resulted in the construction of 26 new homes. Oct. 22nd, 2012 | By Yolanda Putman

October 22, 2012 at 10:36 a.m.
miraweb said...

That is the nice thing about the Internet. You have some chance of finding actual facts - like the BLS surveys - that expose who is just blowing smoke. Yeah, you have to do your homework but democracy is not a spectator sport.

October 22, 2012 at 10:44 a.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb said...

My understanding is the major party candidates have always had security briefings.

A conspiracy theorist would have the wonderments of;

o Do they both get the same information? The presidents advisers can declare any item classified and withhold it.

o Is that why Obama fumbled the Libya situation? The effort to prevent Romney from getting certain information short changed Obama as well.

o Is the reason for the secrecy to keep scaring the public when it is known how little we really know?

miraweb said...

There are a few more years of 10% cuts before we even get close to baseline. The costs of our wounded warriors will be with us for decades.

Wounded warrior cost should be with us for decades and they should have more than the minimum assistance necessary even if it breaks the bank. I agree, get out of the middle east and north Africa, but what do you consider the baseline as equipment and other expended resources are replaced and our military strengthened to assure we can be defended and retaliate aggressively if attacked?

Obama keeps saying we need to use the money saved by ending the wars to do this and that. Where does he get the idea there will be excess money that isn't needed to reduce the deficit in order to stop increasing the debt?

October 22, 2012 at 10:47 a.m.
fairmon said...

I would like to hear Romney take the time to explain his math on taxes and the military better. I would like to hear why Obama thinks money saved from ending the wars does anything other than reduces the need to borrow. He says we need to use that money to do a list of things including more social programs that would never end. He sounds like he fails to realize it is all borrowed money.

October 22, 2012 at 10:53 a.m.
mymy said...

Which way will America go in the future? That is the important question in the voting booth on November 6, 2012 = The Final Poll!!

15 Days to Go!

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country/National Security here/abroad and the growing debt.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Romney/Ryan 2012

October 22, 2012 at 11:20 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 writes: “Romney has accused the president of projecting American weakness. It's something many allies (and enemies) perceive as well.”

Which allies are you referencing, Harp3339? The last poll I read, which was the September’s Transatlantic Trends - German Marshall Fund poll showed that 82% of Europeans had a favorable opinion of Obama while only 23% held a favorable opinion of Romney. And the trouble Romney has caused with Russia and China can’t be improving his image.

And which enemies are you referencing, Harp3339. Surely, not Iran? But, perhaps, you’ve forgotten how much the rest of the world disliked George W. Bush and the neo-cons. From what I’ve read, Iran would love for the neo-cons to return. Indeed, they believe another neo-con cowboy in charge will isolate the United States and unravel the current coalition against Iran.

October 22, 2012 at 11:20 a.m.
miraweb said...

This is the landscape that Romney is facing when he says he wants to double defense spending. The only way he can do that is to borrow. There isn't any other revenue on the table.

Top Line Defense Discretionary Budgets 2002 - 2012

2002 $328.9 billion ($442.6 billion in constant dollars)

2003 $387.3 billion

2004 $379.9 billion

2005 $474.2 billion

2006 $499.3 billion

2007 $529.1 billion

2008 $594.6 billion

2009 $636.3 billion

2010 $666.7 billion

2011 $678 billion

2012 $688.2 billion (35% increase over 2002 in constant dollars)

The additional off-budget requests for Afghanistan and Iraq 9/2001 through 3/2011 were:

$806 billion Iraq

$444 billion Afghanistan

$29 billion "enhanced security"

$6 billion unallocated

TOTAL: $1,285 trillion - or an average of $128.5 billion each year

2011 monthly spending on the war in Afghanistan $6.7 billion per month

2011 monthly spending on the war in Iraq $6.2 billion

At the end of FY 2011 (September) the Pentagon reported that outlays in Afghanistan alone were at $7.8 billion per month while the outlays in Iraq significantly dropped after the drawdown in December 2011.

That number dropped to $5.3 billion per month in Afghanistan in November 2011.

Data sources:

The Cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Other Global War on Terror Operations Since 9/11, Congressional Research Service

Rethinking the Ten Challenges of U.S. Defense, Center for Strategic and International Studies

CBO Monthly Budget Review http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43656

October 22, 2012 at 12:04 p.m.
timbo said...

miraweb...I have used local BLS data for years to debunk employment data given out by the chanmber. It is hard to dispute but the local politicians do it by calling you crazy or a conspiracy theorist. In other words, no matter how much proof you have they can dispute it by just saying "that's not right."

A few years ago we gave a presentation to the Pachyderm club on the fact that we paid the highest per ca-pita tax rate in Hamilton county in the whole state. It was just taking the total county expenditures divided by the total population. The place was full of politicians and every one disputed that number.

The point here is that data can be used and misused. It is all in perspective. I think the data shows that Obama is a bald faced liar about Benghazi, you might think the data shows that he is telling the truth.... Here we go again.

You are right, some data is beyond interpretation but that doesn't stop a lying politician from obfuscating the truth.

October 22, 2012 at 12:07 p.m.
miraweb said...

That's why they call it lying.

October 22, 2012 at 12:08 p.m.
miraweb said...

Romney's proposal could be rephrased "Is it worth borrowing $600 billion from China so we look like a big guy to that nutcase Achmadinijad."

Romney may be impressed with large amounts of money. I doubt Achmadinijad is.

The Pentagon, in fact, returned $2 billion to the treasury last year that it didn't spend. They think the fiscal cliff deal is pretty nuts but they aren't looking for huge budget increases.

October 22, 2012 at 12:11 p.m.
miraweb said...

There is an argument that Romney's military plan is really a stimulus plan that has been dressed up to be acceptable to conservatives. There is still some argument for economic stimulus but I would place the priority on stuff we need more.

How about buying up some of that empty housing stock and refurbishing it for disabled vets?

That might get a lot of construction workers back on the job.

How about setting up more training programs for doctors, nurses, and health care workers to rehabilitate disabled vets and help the growing population of the elderly?

How about building more nursing home facilities and fixing the roofs, pipes, and furnaces on the ones we have now. We're facing a real shortage in a few years from now.

If Romney really wants a stimulus program, then let's do something worth the trouble.

October 22, 2012 at 12:27 p.m.
timbo said...

Miraweb....Again, it is perspective. I see Obama as an unqualified, inexperienced, person who has run up the deficit twice as fast as the other big spender, Bush. Here is a number for you....$16,000,000,000,000. $5,000,000,000,000 is Obama's.

He can in no way preach to anyone about the budget. Especially, since the democrats haven't voted on one in 3.5 years. Romney has at least run something and has management experience.

Everything needs to be cut but I would say that defense is one of the only legitimate functions of the government. We should cut the rest of the budget, like entitlements, first. They even dwarf the defense budget.

October 22, 2012 at 12:33 p.m.
miraweb said...

Here may be where we just disagree. I think taking care of our own vets and elders should be put far head of building new weapon systems for Australia and Japan (two of Kagan's NeoCon proposals).

We need to manage our own security. Other countries need to do the same.

October 22, 2012 at 12:43 p.m.
raygunz said...

For anyone interested, Steve Benen has been chronicling "Mitt's Mendacity" for some time. It's up to volume #39.

Check-out http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/10/19/14561528-chronicling-mitts-mendacity-vol-xxxix?lite

Yeah,yeah, I know, "lefty site" and all that, but it doesn't change the FACT that Mitt lies constantly. IOKIYAR!

October 22, 2012 at 12:48 p.m.
miraweb said...

Putting money into defense doesn't mean those jobs would be American jobs. This is how one major defense contractor sees the world:

Among the major programmes Lockheed Martin is working on with its international partners are the Joint Strike Fighter, in which BAE SYSTEMS joins Northrop Grumman as a full partner on the F-35 JSF team, and the MEADS (Medium Extended Air Defense System) programme, with EADS and Alenia Difesa as full partners in the MEADS International joint venture. Both the JSF and the MEADS programmes serve the harmonized military requirements of NATO governments.

Lockheed Martin and the Spanish shipbuilder, Izar, joined initially to meet Spanish Navy requirements for a new frigate with advanced combat systems. The partnership then won a contract to meet similar requirements for the Norwegian Navy and is now pursuing other surface combatant opportunities around the world with their F-100 frigate design. In conjunction with AgustaWestland, Lockheed Martin is the prime contractor and systems integrator for the Royal Navy's Merlin helicopter programme.

The F-35, MEADS, F-100 and Merlin programmes, along with the F-16 and C-130J, are examples of Lockheed Martin pursuing global opportunities with global partners.

To further encourage strong international industry partnerships in the defense market, Lockheed Martin advocates that NATO member governments increasingly harmonize their future military requirements and establish a single common transatlantic defense market that is integrated, open and competitive, supported by a transatlantic defense industrial base that is innovative and robust.

http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/uk/who-we-are/Partnerships.html

October 22, 2012 at 12:51 p.m.
hambone said...

This forum has got to where it is just plain silly!

Over-run with trolls and gomers that continue to parrot all the lies they have heard or can make up. They post statements that anyone with common sense can see are false, linking sites that don't work or are so far out in space that a interstellar probe couldn't reach that far.

Then go back and forth calling each other names that would make a sailor blush.

It sounds like a bunch of pre-schoolers that can type!!

October 22, 2012 at 2:38 p.m.
ibshame said...

TuDumb in posting your bullsh*t article once again you prove just how ignorant you really are. So here's a blast from the past:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=0

On Aug. 6, 2001, President George W. Bush received a classified review of the threats posed by Osama bin Laden and his terrorist network, Al Qaeda. That morning’s “presidential daily brief” — the top-secret document prepared by America’s intelligence agencies — featured the now-infamous heading: “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” A few weeks later, on 9/11, Al Qaeda accomplished that goal.

On April 10, 2004, the Bush White House declassified that daily brief — and only that daily brief — in response to pressure from the 9/11 Commission, which was investigating the events leading to the attack. Administration officials dismissed the document’s significance, saying that, despite the jaw-dropping headline, it was only an assessment of Al Qaeda’s history, not a warning of the impending attack. While some critics considered that claim absurd, a close reading of the brief showed that the argument had some validity.

That is, unless it was read in conjunction with the daily briefs preceding Aug. 6, the ones the Bush administration would not release. While those documents are still not public, I have read excerpts from many of them, along with other recently declassified records, and come to an inescapable conclusion: the administration’s reaction to what Mr. Bush was told in the weeks before that infamous briefing reflected significantly more negligence than has been disclosed. In other words, the Aug. 6 document, for all of the controversy it provoked, is not nearly as shocking as the briefs that came before it.

The direct warnings to Mr. Bush about the possibility of a Qaeda attack began in the spring of 2001. By May 1, the Central Intelligence Agency told the White House of a report that “a group presently in the United States” was planning a terrorist operation. Weeks later, on June 22, the daily brief reported that Qaeda strikes could be “imminent,” although intelligence suggested the time frame was flexible. But some in the administration considered the warning to be just bluster. An intelligence official and a member of the Bush administration both told me in interviews that the neoconservative leaders who had recently assumed power at the Pentagon were warning the White House that the C.I.A. had been fooled; according to this theory, Bin Laden was merely pretending to be planning an attack to distract the administration from Saddam Hussein, whom the neoconservatives saw as a greater threat. Intelligence officials, these sources said, protested that the idea of Bin Laden, an Islamic fundamentalist, conspiring with Mr. Hussein, an Iraqi secularist, was ridiculous, but the neoconservatives’ suspicions were nevertheless carrying the day. .....

October 22, 2012 at 2:49 p.m.
ibshame said...

cont. In response, the C.I.A. prepared an analysis that all but pleaded with the White House to accept that the danger from Bin Laden was real.

“The U.S. is not the target of a disinformation campaign by Usama Bin Laden,” the daily brief of June 29 read, using the government’s transliteration of Bin Laden’s first name. Going on for more than a page, the document recited much of the evidence, including an interview that month with a Middle Eastern journalist in which Bin Laden aides warned of a coming attack, as well as competitive pressures that the terrorist leader was feeling, given the number of Islamists being recruited for the separatist Russian region of Chechnya.

And the C.I.A. repeated the warnings in the briefs that followed. Operatives connected to Bin Laden, one reported on June 29, expected the planned near-term attacks to have “dramatic consequences,” including major casualties. On July 1, the brief stated that the operation had been delayed, but “will occur soon.” Some of the briefs again reminded Mr. Bush that the attack timing was flexible, and that, despite any perceived delay, the planned assault was on track.

Yet, the White House failed to take significant action. Officials at the Counterterrorism Center of the C.I.A. grew apoplectic. On July 9, at a meeting of the counterterrorism group, one official suggested that the staff put in for a transfer so that somebody else would be responsible when the attack took place, two people who were there told me in interviews. The suggestion was batted down, they said, because there would be no time to train anyone else.

That same day in Chechnya, according to intelligence I reviewed, Ibn Al-Khattab, an extremist who was known for his brutality and his links to Al Qaeda, told his followers that there would soon be very big news. Within 48 hours, an intelligence official told me, that information was conveyed to the White House, providing more data supporting the C.I.A.’s warnings. Still, the alarm bells didn’t sound.

October 22, 2012 at 2:55 p.m.
ibshame said...

cont. On July 24, Mr. Bush was notified that the attack was still being readied, but that it had been postponed, perhaps by a few months. But the president did not feel the briefings on potential attacks were sufficient, one intelligence official told me, and instead asked for a broader analysis on Al Qaeda, its aspirations and its history. In response, the C.I.A. set to work on the Aug. 6 brief.

In the aftermath of 9/11, Bush officials attempted to deflect criticism that they had ignored C.I.A. warnings by saying they had not been told when and where the attack would occur. That is true, as far as it goes, but it misses the point. Throughout that summer, there were events that might have exposed the plans, had the government been on high alert. Indeed, even as the Aug. 6 brief was being prepared, Mohamed al-Kahtani, a Saudi believed to have been assigned a role in the 9/11 attacks, was stopped at an airport in Orlando, Fla., by a suspicious customs agent and sent back overseas on Aug. 4. Two weeks later, another co-conspirator, Zacarias Moussaoui, was arrested on immigration charges in Minnesota after arousing suspicions at a flight school. But the dots were not connected, and Washington did not react.

IT IS TRULY SAD FOUR AMERICANS LOST THEIR LIVES NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT BUT FOR SOMEONE LIKE YOU AND OTHERS TO ATTRIBUTE THAT TO SOME FAILURE OF OBAMA'S POLICIES IN THE MIDDLE EAST IS AS RIDICULOUS AS THE TRUTHERS TRYING TO SAY WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11 WAS A CONSPIRACY COOKED UP BY BUSH AND HIS NEOCON BUDDIES. What happened in Libya was a tragedy just as 9/11 was a tragedy. Mistakes were made but no one who really cares about this country would sit around like you and the rest of the wing nuts and try to politicize what happened to score points for Romney. 99.99% of Americans in this country supported Bush when he said he was going to get those responsible for 9/11. It was when he forgot about his promise to do that and instead turned his attention to attacking a country that had zilch to do with 9/11 that his support began to erode. And his war effort did indeed become more about politics than patriotism.

October 22, 2012 at 2:55 p.m.
miraweb said...

We have 23 people who have died from the contaminated steroid solutions. We have 4 who died in Benghazi.

Funny how everyone is willing to wait for the FDA to do its work in a much easier investigation that has the cooperation of the business involved while there is hand-flapping and vapors over something much more complicated and difficult to untangle.

Romney deserves all of the contempt that has been heaped on him and his campaign for trying to score political points on this attack.

I will, frankly, be surprised if he brings it up again this evening.

October 22, 2012 at 3:23 p.m.
rick1 said...

Uninstalling Obama █████████████▒▒▒ 90% complete

October 22, 2012 at 5:50 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "Funny how everyone is willing to wait for the FDA to do its work in a much easier investigation that has the cooperation of the business involved while there is hand-flapping and vapors over something much more complicated and difficult to untangle."

It is only hard to untangle if you are so passionately devoted to Obama that you cannot imagine that his administration could screw up something so badly. If you look at things objectively you can see what an empty shirt he is as Commander and Chief.

October 22, 2012 at 5:53 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Timbo says: “Romney has at least run something and has management experience.”

I do believe you're stretching Romney's credentials, Timbo. Indeed, former President Ronald Reagan’s budget director, David Stockman, suggests that Mitt Romney was actually more of a gambler than a businessman:

“Mitt Romney was not a businessman; he was a master financial speculator who bought, sold, flipped, and stripped businesses. He did not build enterprises the old-fashioned way—out of inspiration, perspiration, and a long slog in the free market fostering a new product, service, or process of production.”

“Instead, he spent his 15 years raising debt in prodigious amounts on Wall Street so that Bain could purchase the pots and pans and castoffs of corporate America, leverage them to the hilt, gussy them up as reborn “roll-ups,” and then deliver them back to Wall Street for resale—the faster the better.”

“That is the modus operandi of the leveraged-buyout business, and in an honest free-market economy, there wouldn’t be much scope for it because it creates little of economic value.

But we have a rigged system—a regime of crony capitalism—where the tax code heavily favors debt and capital gains, and the central bank purposefully enables rampant speculation by propping up the price of financial assets and battering down the cost of leveraged finance.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/10/14/david-stockman-mitt-romney-and-the-bain-drain.html

October 22, 2012 at 6:40 p.m.
tderng said...

rick1...lol @ 5:50

October 22, 2012 at 7:12 p.m.
hambone said...

How did we get so many people in one place (this forum) that are experts at picking fly crap out of black pepper !

October 22, 2012 at 7:21 p.m.
dude_abides said...

I am a nervous wreck! I'm afraid tonight's outcome won't be to my liking. I'm afraid I will look foolish and uninformed. I don't know how I will deal with it, if he drops the ball in front of the entire nation. What if he seems indecisive and frantic? What if he doesn't clearly make all of his goals known? Maybe I should have taken Detroit and the points, because Cutler might choke!

October 22, 2012 at 7:42 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "At least half of the voters have just one issue for voting and that is they want government to give them checks or programs and it is the ONLY issue that matters."

Thank you Mitt Romney. You're already on record expressing that sentiment.

"This is why Owebama's ads constantly charge that Romney will cut or change Socialism Security, Medicare, deny the voter healthcare etc.."

It's not as if the man has not gone on record stating those very points in his past.

"Written around 1835!!! What Wisdom!!!"

What a myth. (Quote snipped)

"Alexis de Tocqueville"

There is absolutely no record whatsoever of the above named man ever making that statement. The quote is most often attributed to Alexander Fraser Tytler, and it has been proven false that it came from him as well.

It appears that the first citation of that quote appeared around 1970, and it has morphed repeatedly over the years.

Someone simply made it up.

October 22, 2012 at 7:57 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Duped_again: Do you ride the short bus? I bet you do. You really come across as a window licking paint eater.

October 22, 2012 at 9:16 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

A year-long investigation by the Investigative Project on Terrorism (IPT) has found that scores of known radical Islamists made hundreds of visits to the Obama White House, meeting with top administration officials.

http://www.investigativeproject.org/3777/a-red-carpet-for-radicals-at-the-white-house

Muslim-in-chief.

October 22, 2012 at 9:19 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Wal-Mart heir funding Obama big time

http://washingtonexaminer.com/wal-mart-boss-sam-walton-funding-obama-big-time/article/2511391#.UIXxgsXA88g

So much for Obama vs. big corporations.

October 22, 2012 at 9:24 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Obama tries to sound like he hasn't been in office for the last four years.....trying to sound like the challenger.

October 22, 2012 at 9:36 p.m.
dude_abides said...

HAHA!!!!!!

More horses and bayonets!

October 22, 2012 at 9:45 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Mitt has Israel's back culturally! W exactly TF does that mean?

October 22, 2012 at 9:51 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Listening to Obama is like fingernails on a chalkboard. This guy lies like a tired dog. What a fraud.

October 22, 2012 at 9:53 p.m.
dude_abides said...

toes... you come across as somebody that would make fun of a child with Down Syndrome.

October 22, 2012 at 9:54 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

It's over your head duped. Stick with spongebob.

October 22, 2012 at 9:55 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

You feelin' a little downsy duped? I knew something was wrong with you.

October 22, 2012 at 9:57 p.m.
dude_abides said...

toes... are ALL people from Pennsylvania inbred, or just... oh never mind.

October 22, 2012 at 10:06 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Just the ones that keep voting for democrats.

October 22, 2012 at 10:14 p.m.
ricardo said...

Romney has the same policy as Obama when it comes to Iran. He also agrees with Obama on getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan. He is short on details when it comes to how to pay for the $5 trillion in tax cuts and $2 trillion in defense increases. The math doesn't add up.

October 22, 2012 at 10:43 p.m.
miraweb said...

I was very surprised that Romney chose the "staring down at my notes all the time" strategy.

That one just never works very well.

October 22, 2012 at 10:45 p.m.
raygunz said...

Romney strategically avoided attacking president on areas where Romney is wrong.lol

October 22, 2012 at 10:52 p.m.
tderng said...

Hey Obozo! The Marines DO still use bayonets

October 22, 2012 at 10:53 p.m.
miraweb said...

I was amused when Romney ran hard from a foreign policy question dirctly to "I love teachers" in that same tone of voice he uses for "I love Big Bird."

I was really afraid for a minute there he was going to defund teachers. It's probably lucky that Schieffer cut him off at the pass.

Nice job wrangling the debate by Bob Schieffer.

October 22, 2012 at 10:54 p.m.
raygunz said...

(Jed Lewison): CBS snap poll says it's a clear victory for Obama: 53% for Obama, 23% for Romney, and 24% call it a tie.

October 22, 2012 at 10:54 p.m.
tderng said...

Calm down Dude...Cutler hasn't choked,Obama yeah,but the Bears no.

October 22, 2012 at 11:02 p.m.
dude_abides said...

tderng said... "Hey Obozo! The Marines DO still use bayonets."

He said "more" Teddy Roosevelt.

October 22, 2012 at 11:03 p.m.
hambone said...

Mitt's case of Romnesia is terminal !

October 22, 2012 at 11:05 p.m.
miraweb said...

I did hear one big thud with the Pakistani people with Romney's statement:

"But we do need to make sure that as we -- as we send support for them, that this is tied to them making progress on -- on matters that would lead them to becoming a civil society."

Pakistan's government is pretty warped, but it takes some balls to tell a people with a continuous 5,000 year history that they have to become "a civil society."

It reminded me of the quote from Gandhi when he was asked what he thought of western civilization. He responded that it would be a very good idea.

I wonder when we will become a "civil society."

October 22, 2012 at 11:07 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Face it, Obama looked like a an anti-Romney ad. Romney out classed Obama big time. Obama has absolutely no class at all. More like an angry black punk.

October 22, 2012 at 11:11 p.m.
GameOn said...

Obama did lie about the Romney position on the auto bail out. Romney supported government financing guarantees.

"The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk." Mitt Romney

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=0

October 22, 2012 at 11:12 p.m.
alprova said...

CNN Poll of registered voters who watched the debate - 48% Obama, 40% Romney

October 22, 2012 at 11:16 p.m.
mymy said...

Romney out smarted Obama tonight. O acted like a bully looking for a fight and Romney was cool, calm and refused to be bullied and got his points across.

An adult vs. a child.

October 22, 2012 at 11:27 p.m.
raygunz said...

Pres.Obama to Rmoney, "But Governor, when it comes to our foreign policy, you seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s, just like the social policies of the 1950s and the economic policies of the 1920s."

October 22, 2012 at 11:27 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote "Face it, Obama looked like a an anti-Romney ad. Romney out classed Obama big time. Obama has absolutely no class at all. More like an angry black punk."

You epitomize and are a poster child as one of the poorest losers of all time.

Clearly, you see just what you want to see.

CBS poll of registered voters - Obama 59%, Romney 23%

October 22, 2012 at 11:30 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Romney's worst night. He seemed to be floating around on a gigantic hemorrhoid. Mitt's a blinker. Ill at ease. Blinking and swallowing alternately. A real wince fest.

October 22, 2012 at 11:30 p.m.
miraweb said...

Here is a link to Romney's original editorial called "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt"

One quote:

If General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won’t go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed.

It is not wrong to ask for government help, but the automakers should come up with a win-win proposition. I believe the federal government should invest substantially more in basic research — on new energy sources, fuel-economy technology, materials science and the like — that will ultimately benefit the automotive industry, along with many others.*

I believe Washington should raise energy research spending to $20 billion a year, from the $4 billion that is spent today. The research could be done at universities, at research labs and even through public-private collaboration. The federal government should also rectify the imbedded tax penalties that favor foreign carmakers.

But don’t ask Washington to give shareholders and bondholders a free pass — they bet on management and they lost.

The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.

In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html


I get the strong impression that Mitt thought the "win-win" would be a private equity killing on the auto industry with the government guaranteeing any risks.

The President was right - at that time there wasn't enough free capital from private equity, including Bain Capital, to get it done. The markets were frozen and time was very short.

October 22, 2012 at 11:37 p.m.
raygunz said...

mymy said...

Romney out smarted Obama tonight. O acted like a bully looking for a fight and Romney was cool, calm and refused to be bullied and got his points across.

Reince, is that you??

October 22, 2012 at 11:38 p.m.
alprova said...

mymy wrote: "Romney out smarted Obama tonight. O acted like a bully looking for a fight and Romney was cool, calm and refused to be bullied and got his points across."

What points? He agreed with the President's foreign policies almost 100%. If the debate had gone on another ten minutes, Mitt Romney would have offered an endorsement to reelect Obama.

October 22, 2012 at 11:38 p.m.
dude_abides said...

alprova's video is hard to ignore.

October 22, 2012 at 11:39 p.m.
GameOn said...

Obama did a managed bankruptcy too. He let GM go bankrupt and managed to screw the dealers on Main Street in the process.

October 22, 2012 at 11:39 p.m.
mymy said...

The Only Poll that counts is Novenber 6!!!!!

Without a strong economy nothing is possible. The vote will be on the economy.

October 22, 2012 at 11:41 p.m.
miraweb said...

The choice was bankruptcy or no GM at all. Without the bankruptcy all of the dealers on Main Street would still be eating bon bons and watching Oprah reruns.

It wasn't pretty but the industry did survive and a couple million people kept working.

October 22, 2012 at 11:44 p.m.
GameOn said...

Al uses a montage video for facts instead of reading the actual op-ed piece?

October 22, 2012 at 11:46 p.m.
miraweb said...

Go easy on poor mymy. She'll be on unemployment after the election and they let all the campaign-bots go.

October 22, 2012 at 11:47 p.m.
mymy said...

Al: You and yours hear only what you want to hear!

If we are weak economically, we are weak in the world and nothing can be accomplished at home or abroad.

Good night all you airheads!!!!

tick, tock time is running out!!!!

October 22, 2012 at 11:47 p.m.
mymy said...

Mira: not my problem, but it is for too many in this country.

Thanks to Obama!!!!

October 22, 2012 at 11:49 p.m.
dude_abides said...

hurry, mymy, your carriage is turning into a pumpkin!

October 22, 2012 at 11:49 p.m.
tderng said...

dude_abides said... Romney's worst night. He seemed to be floating around on a gigantic hemorrhoid.

Yeah,and it's name is Obama.

October 22, 2012 at 11:53 p.m.
alprova said...

GameOn wrote: "Al uses a montage video for facts instead of reading the actual op-ed piece?"

You're going to deny video proof of the man's own words? He spoke numerous times about the issue over the past four years. Mitt Romney forgets what he says routinely, and he changes his mind more than I change my underwear.

October 22, 2012 at 11:55 p.m.
miraweb said...

Plus the link to the original opinion piece Romney wrote is at 11:37. Detroit had a right to be very, very angry.

October 22, 2012 at 11:57 p.m.
alprova said...

GameOn wrote: "Obama did a managed bankruptcy too. He let GM go bankrupt and managed to screw the dealers on Main Street in the process."

Get real. GM made all the decisions as to what went on the chopping block as part of their bankruptcy filing. Had GM not been saved, every single dealer would have been gone.

There was nobody, and I do mean nobody who wanted to step up to the plate and to buy GM for any other purpose than to liquidate it...period.

If you disagree with that, then please feel free to cite anyone who proposed to buy GM while it was operating under Chapter 11 protection.

October 23, 2012 at 12:03 a.m.
dude_abides said...

tderng, are you one of them there "Low Information Voters?"

October 23, 2012 at 12:03 a.m.
GameOn said...

Miraweb....Auto dealers do not survive without customers. The bankruptcy could have easily left the dealers alone but in the name of "shared sacrifice" the government picked winners and losers. You are right... It was not pretty.

October 23, 2012 at 12:08 a.m.
alprova said...

mymy wrote: "Al: You and yours hear only what you want to hear!"

You're right about that. The President was reminded the people that he was not up there on a stage pretending to know a thing or two about foreign policy. He demonstrated that he was indeed the President and was in charge of foreign policy.

"If we are weak economically, we are weak in the world and nothing can be accomplished at home or abroad."

Sounds like Romney rhetoric to me.

"tick, tock time is running out!!!!"

mymy, you're going to be saying "my oh my" in two more weeks.

October 23, 2012 at 12:13 a.m.
GameOn said...

Al... He may have changed positions. Plus your montage may or may not be reliable. I am referring to the original op-ed piece (linked above) written by Romney.

October 23, 2012 at 12:17 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

So, Mitts foreign policy seems to consist of doing everything that Obama has been doing? Nice way to differentiate yourself there Mittens. Jeez, I thought Mitt was going to suggest that him and Obama break out in singing Kum Ba Ya.

October 23, 2012 at 12:28 a.m.
alprova said...

GameOn wrote: "Al... He may have changed positions."

There's no "MAY" about it. He's flip-flopped so many times that the man should be doing hand springs when he's on stage.

"Plus your montage may or may not be reliable."

I see...so you think someone dubbed their voice to make it look like Mitt flipped?

"I am referring to the original op-ed piece (linked above) written by Romney."

I'm sorry, but what the man wrote at one time was countered by his own appearance in front of a camera, and the entire nation knows that the man has a bad habit of saying stuff in front of cameras that has a tendency to discredit him, horribly.

October 23, 2012 at 12:30 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

"Despite Obama’s slight edge overall, Romney was seen as better able to handle most issues. The trend was most notable in the CNN poll: he had an 18-point edge among registered voters on the economy (58 percent Romney, 40 percent Obama), a 3-point edge on health care (49 percent Romney, 46 percent Obama), a 7-point edge on taxes (51 percent Romney, 44 percent Obama), and, largest of all, a 23 percent edge on the deficit (59 percent Romney, 36 percent Obama). Obama’s only lead was on foreign policy, where a slim margin of 2 percent of registered voters who watched the debate said he would handle the issue better (49 percent Obama, 47 percent Romney)".

Obama won the debate? But Romney won on all the issues thus far.

"Romney got six runs in the first inning, Obama got one run in the second and one run in the third. Romney wins by four". Ari.

And Obama just gave away Virginia with his "horses and bayonets" remark.

And even with all your liberal news stations fully in the tank for Obama, He is STILL fighting for his political life! Imagine if the media was objective as it was meant to be. Obama would still be a union ball scratcher.

October 23, 2012 at 8:51 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Chris Matthews To Romney Supporter On Libya: 'It's All About The Video' - 10/22/2012

Matthews has lost his mind. Somebody should give him a memo that states: EVEN THE WHITE HOUSE NOW SAYS IT WASN'T THE DAMN VIDEO!! FREAKIN' MORON!!

October 23, 2012 at 9:05 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Obama Supporters Continue Threats To Riot, Assassinate Romney

http://www.infowars.com/obama-supporters-continue-threats-to-riot-assassinate-romney/


Post-debate, MSNBC’s Matthews claims Romney supporters fueled by racial hatred of Obama

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/10/23/post-debate-msnbcs-matthews-claims-romney-supporters-fueled-by-racial-hatred/#ixzz2A816oFQl

Can you say LYING SACK OF SHIIT!

October 23, 2012 at 9:25 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Romney Wins CBS Focus Group In Ohio

Just look at how dejected and surprised the liberals anchors are. Funny stuff.

October 23, 2012 at 9:49 a.m.
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