published Monday, September 17th, 2012

Change lifestyle to cut health cost and other letters to the editor

Change lifestyle to cut health cost

There are many who consider access to "affordable health care" as an "unalienable right." Is it a "right" to expect health care providers to take a pay cut? Is it a "right" to expect the taxpayers to pay? Do we want the government to print enough money to cover this?

As a family physician, most of the chronic conditions for which I see patients are lifestyle-related -- obesity, lack of physical activity, smoking, etc. Everyone has the opportunity to choose a healthy lifestyle. Why should someone who is serious about their health pay for the complications of those who are not?

The primary issue in health care is its cost. Yet the most important component of excess cost has not been addressed, that of tort reform. I don't see any reform short of the English or Canadian rule of "loser pays" (the opponent's out of pocket costs) being effective in curbing the lawsuit abuse and defensive medicine which is rampant in our current system.

Another factor affecting cost are the insurance mandates at the state and federal levels. If these are eliminated, and insurance buyers are allowed to pick and choose what is covered and what is not, costs will decrease.

DAVID CLOSE, M.D


Thank those who started Bike Share

I take issue with several comments regarding the Chattanooga Bike Share program. I personally know people who make use of the bikes to run errands during the day while at work. I have seen people riding them on the Riverwalk. I have seen people riding them downtown and in North Chattanooga. I think any transportation method that encourages people to get out and exercise, reduces pollution and saves energy is a good use of taxpayer money.

The initial startup costs and operating budget for the first year were funded through a federal transportation grant with some local funds. The goal is to be self-sufficient with revenue coming entirely from rental and annual subscriptions.

I would also point out that automobile use is heavily subsidized by the government. So if you consider Bike Share to be an aspect of mass transportation, a human-powered one, then it's not unexpected that it may require some additional support.

Rather than advocating removing people from office who supported the Bike Share program, I believe we should thank them for their forward-leaning vision, their leadership in continuing to make Chattanooga a sustainable city and the national recognition that Chattanooga has received.

REBECCA ROCHAT


Making excuses to do nothing

This is a metaphorical critique of Cliff Hightower's non-fiction story, "City delays action on housing resolution," (Sept. 12).

After Dorothy led the Mayor and Minister of Munchkin Land out of the legislative chambers of White Diamond City, Jane Crow sang, "Caw! Caw," from the shoulder of the Scarecrow and the curtain surrounding the sanctorum of political pontification fell to the floor. The clamorous crassness of Jane Crow caught the ear of the Cowardly Lion who dropped his head and purred.

The Tin Man added his guttural tenor voice to the cacophonic chorus, while the Wizard remembered his most monophonic dictum: Not in my district. Then following the advice of the Scarecrow, the sanctum's whole choir doubled the time needed to search for harmonious excuses to do nothing. But on the Westside, Munchkins were singing, "There's no place like home," as they released a hot air balloon.

Cast: Dorothy, Courtney Knapp; Mayor, Joyce Hardwick; Minister, LeRoy Griffith; Jane Crow, Sally Robinson; Scarecrow, Mike McMahan; Tin Man, Peter Murphy; Cowardly Lion, Manny Rico; Wizard, Jack Benson.

PHYLLIS THOMAS, Minister of Social Work, Renaissance Presbyterian Church


Headrick wants funds for lock

Many thanks to Mary Headrick, candidate for Congress, for supporting the barge owners' request to increase the marine fuel tax that barge owners pay in order to generate new funding for the locks at Chickamauga Dam (article, Sept. 8). Mary would also fight for a long-term funding solution to lock construction and maintenance, including a federal block grant and the sale of low-interest government bonds.

Rep. Chuck Fleischmann is against the barge owners' request and all other efforts to secure new funds for the locks. He's signed a pledge sponsored by some Washington bigwig lobbyist not to raise taxes regardless of the benefits to Tennesseeans. Chuck won't even honor billionaire Warren Buffett's request to increase federal taxes on all billionaires.

Mary Headrick is a well-informed, common-sense candidate, physician and carpenter who understands the economic benefits to Tennesseans of moving goods on the river. She also supports Buffett's request for a higher federal tax rate for billionaires. After all, why should secretaries and many of the rest of us pay higher tax rates than billionaires?

Please vote for Mary. She pledges to work for the people in the 3rd District, not Washington bigwigs.

HORACE BARKER, Hixson


Who's to blame for religion fuss?

Isn't it awful that these nice people are forced to listen to prayers all the time? They should be able to go anywhere they want and not have religion pounded on their heads.

When they pull their American money out of their pockets, they see "In God We Trust" on it. Driving down the road, they see churches and crosses everywhere. In Washington, D.C., they see biblical quotes on public buildings.

Maybe we should just do away with all these things. It would make people who hate God and the name of Jesus Christ happy. Away with all those Christians who want to worship their God!

I could quote the Constitution and say that the church and state should be separate, but try as I might, I cannot find the wording there! But of course! It came from the Supreme Court in the early 1960s. No one stood up to their opinion.

The Supreme Court does not make laws. It just renders opinions on laws, so who is to blame for this opinion standing? We the people?

Fact is, we will all die one day. Then what? Read Psalm 9:17.

NELL MOSES, East Ridge


Some Muslims lack reasoning

Recently in Pakistan an 11-year-old Christian girl with Down's syndrome and her mother were imprisoned for burning pages of a Muslim school textbook. This episode also caused Christian neighbors to flee their homes fearing for their lives. Such repulsive behavior is not something new for the righteous Muslims. I don't know why a poor little girl would incite Muslims by burning their religious school textbook, but I do know they look for the opportunity to create awe and fear amongst those who have a different religious orientation. They believe it's their religious duty to defend and protect Allah and his religion. In fact, they lack the sense of reflection and reasoning when it comes to their religion. To them everything religious is divinely revealed and infallible.

So often our religious convictions cause us to be mean and intolerant toward our fellow human beings, forgetting what the divine being truly requires from us: "To do justice and love kindness and to walk humbly with him."

I wonder how anyone's spirituality can be damaged just because someone burned the pages of their religious textbook!

AMOS TAJ, Ooltewah

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ToHoldNothing said...

In God We Trust was not the original motto of our country. That would be E Pluribus Unum, From Many One. In God We Trust historically had some presence in the 19th century and then was foisted on a paranoid populace by an overly conservative Congress who thought we needed to say God was part of our government to be a great country, which is ludicrous

The mere presence of prayers or churches or other religious nonsense is not offensive to me, it is people refusing to get out of the bubble that these insular sorts of practices and institutions create with their claims of special revelation and other privileges they have as children of God covered in the blood of Jesus Christ or other such monikers.

I cannot hate what I do not recognize has any reality except as a concept. Why hate what would not have any reason to interfere with human affairs or care about humans? If there is a God, it would be too perfect to require prayers or even involve itself in any human affairs, since it would be self sufficient.

The Constitution does not have to explicitly say something for it to be interpreted within its meaning. Otherwise we'd have to be very constrained on the supposed rights we're given in the Constitution that are covered under the 14th amendment, for instance. The 1st amendment's establishment clause is only part of the reason separation of church and state is considered part of Constitutional law. Might I add Article 6, paragraph 3, which ends with "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust in the United STates". That suggests that the government has no real concern for one's religious beliefs as to whether you can be a public official in any capacity in this country.

Religion is primarily a private matter for churches and believers to settle amongst themselves and their deity or deities. The government has no reason to be involved in affairs of religion. But why do you seem to imply that religion ought to have influence and involvement in government affairs? The mere presence of religious quotes does not mean religion, the Christian one in particular, is given any special favor, but merely recognition by individuals, same as any person still can, albeit not in an official capacity as a public official. They can go to any house of worship they choose, or even sleep in on Sundays as we heathen atheists are prone to do.

The Supreme Court sets precedent for interpretation of law, though technically the Congress is the one that passes the laws in a bicameral fashion.

Your thinly veiled threat of hell would be amusing if it weren't spoken in such a way to suggest that you somehow are confident you won't burn in that hell yourself, since your faith sustains you in your convictions and whatnot.

September 17, 2012 at 12:28 a.m.
Livn4life said...

ToHoldNothing-You are welcome to stay out of that bubble and see what happens when this life comes to an end for you. That will surely happen. I do believe there is scientific evidence to prove it.Not all who claim faith, claim everyone else has to have theirs nor that if they choose to have no faith they are of less value. You, however, at least infer that any person of faith has no basis to dare to believe in something or someone beyond the natural. This shows your arrogance. But in this country, arrogance is no crime and the expression of it is covered as free speech provided it is not vulgar or unacceptable. The faith/non-faith debate will continue. I fail to see it as anything less than a standoff because in either case the person has his or her right. The challenge is when it becomes less than respectful from either perspective and leads to more and more division. In the end, faith or unfaith, God or nogod, we are all Americans. When we can see this first and rise above our differences, then we might see progress in some of our needy areas. Until then, we will go on and on and on, against one another embolding our enemies outside the country and weakening our nation.

September 17, 2012 at 6:15 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

That will surely happen. I do believe there is scientific evidence to prove it.

Let's have a look at that scientific proof, shall we?

September 17, 2012 at 7:35 a.m.
Lr103 said...

Parroting Amos Taj opinion: Some Muslims Lack Reasoning

Some Christians lack reasoning. 1. A traveling Easter Show cast receives death threats and were forced to leave town in a hurry after receiving death because they selected one of their black actors to play the role of Jesus crucified on the cross.

  1. Chris Ofili, Nigerian born artist, sparked outrage and threats among American Christians when he used elephant dung on a painting of the Virgin Mary in her honor. American Christians saw it as an insult. actually Where, in his native Africa, elephant dung is seen as a blessing from God. Where Chris art works using elephant dung were denounced and attacked in America, they've been received with great appreciation and honor in Europe and the rest of the world.

  2. Who can ever forget the scene of those poor innocent Muslim women and children being chased from a Wal-Mart after 9/11/2001?

There are fringe, lunatics, fanatics and extremist who lack reasoning in all religions.

September 17, 2012 at 9:18 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

"As a family physician, most of the chronic conditions for which I see patients are lifestyle-related -- obesity, lack of physical activity, smoking, etc. Everyone has the opportunity to choose a healthy lifestyle. Why should someone who is serious about their health pay for the complications of those who are not?" - David Close, M.D.

Dr. CLose, I'm certainly in no position to dispute what you say, about "most of the chronic conditions for which (you) see patients" being life-style related. And there is certainly a lot to be said for individual responsibility for our overall health. But what about the countless diseases and accidents that happen to people all the time that have absolutely nothing to do with whether one eats right, abstains from smoking/drinking, and exercises regularly? If you yourself don't see a lot of such illnesses or accidents, there are plenty of other Drs. and ERs that do.

Certainly, if everyone took better care of themselves, health care oosts could be reduced, but human nature being what it is, that is never going to happen on a large enough scale to make a difference. And people like you who call for freedom of choice (and you ARE for freedom of choice, I assume? You think that we should all be free NOT to have to contribute to the health care of others, correct?) are opposed to the government even attempting to make better choices and better foods more easily obtainable for more people. If we leave it up to the commercial food industry, we will continue to have processed, high-calorie, over-salted, over-sweetened, nutrient-depleted foods more affordable and more easily obtainable than fresh, more healthful foods. And the freedom-of-choice conservatives get their panties all in a wad over the First Lady so much as making suggestions for healthier foods served to school kids or for urging them to exercise more; and they get all in a dither over government "intervention" in making restaurants dispense with super-sized soda cups that encourage people to drink obscenely large amounts of over-sweetened beverages.

Making health care accessible to everyone is not just a matter of fairness or compassion. It is just as much a matter of common sense and practicality. A healthier citizenry makes for a stronger and more prosperous nation. If everyone had access to health care, certainly there would be some up-front costs, but it would more than pay for itself in the long run, with better preventive care and thus a huge reduction in the serious illnesses that could be avoided from early detection.

If you think that your idea of just saying that we should all make better and healthier choices is some kind of serious "plan" for reducing health care costs and you have no means of implementing such a "plan" on a large enough scale to make it work, then you are being ridiculously naive and simplistic.

September 17, 2012 at 1:28 p.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

Editor's Note: This is such an apropos article for a previous comment, that I will also apply said comment to this article. Please note this comment is for a 'letter to the Editor, as distinguished from a 'Free Press Editorial'. kwo

"Who's to blame for religion fuss?"

The giants of our society's government know constitutional law very well. They are the elected officials of the United States Congress. They are held to the strictest standards for upholding our nation's Constitution. The constitutionally, lawfully, correct procedure/method in which they open every session of Congress is.......THEY PRAY ALOUD A PRAYER OF FAITH. Please see below a link to the Congressional Record (112th Congress). It opens with these words: "The PRESIDING OFFICER. Today's opening prayer will be offered by Rev. Joel Osteen, the Senior Pastor...The guest Chaplin offered the following prayer: "Let us pray"

Now, for those on this site, including myself, when we become members of Congress, let us give the correct Constitutional interpretations. Until then, In Jesus Christ's Holy Name...Well......."LET US PRAY"

Ken ORR

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CREC-2012-04-26/pdf/CREC-2012-04-26-senate.pdf

September 17, 2012 at 1:32 p.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

In response to the article "Some Muslims lack reasoning"...

I have some very much loved friends who, as muslims, are confused about the following. If provided the correct, positive way to view the following, then, i will certainly relay the info. to my loved ones. Hopefully someone can lead me to, or, provide the information.

"The master does not have the right to force the female slave to wed to an ugly black slave if she is beautiful and agile unless in case of utmost necessity" (refer to Ibn Hazm, Vol. 6, Part 9, p. 469).

In matters of sex and marriage, Ibn Timiyya states:

"The one who owns the mother also owns her children. Being the master of the mother makes him the owner of her children whether they were born to a husband or they were illegitimate children. Therefore, the master has the right to have sexual intercourse with the daughters of his maid-slave because they are his property, provided he does not sleep with the mother at the same time" (Vol. 35, p. 54).

Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256).

(Sahih Moslem vol. 9, p. 46-47).

September 17, 2012 at 1:48 p.m.
jen1972 said...

Dr. Close, you state that litigious patients are why the costs of health care are so overblown. I want to know why health institutions are allowed to charge such ridiculous amounts for things that are basic. Like when I went to the emergency room for a sprain and was given two plain ol' Tylenol capsules, for which my insurance company was charged $8.00. For two Tylenol. Not Tylonel 3 with codeine, just the same over the counter medicine I had in my purse at the time. For pills that with $8.00 I could have bought at least 500 if not more. How is that fair? And then there's the medical group with which you yourself have been associated. I had the flu last year and I was miserable. I went in to be seen by a doctor and was subjected to a flu test, and the results were negative. However I was told that "we treat the patient, not test results," and I was prescribed Tamiflu, took it, and got better very quickly. I knew I had the flu. The doctor knew I had the flu. So why did I have to take a flu test if he was going to treat me for the flu anyway? Because that medical group got to charge a tidy sum for administering a flu test to me. Is it fair for me to expect you to take a pay cut? Well, when you collude with health institutions and other companies in price gouging, price fixing, and charging for unnecessary tests or procedures, then yes, I believe it is fair.

September 17, 2012 at 2:22 p.m.
ToHoldNothing said...

Livn4Life

I've been out of the bubble for close to a third of my life and I have no regrets. Again, you have not so subtle threats of hell. How is this supposed to motivate me? Isn't the bible, particularly NT, something warning against using threats of punishment and fear thereof to get people to be moral? Shouldn't you be moral, according to the bible, because you love God and are faithful? In my case, I am ethical because it has practical benefits, which is far more rational and pragmatic than loving an imagined creator

I didn't say everyone believed that way and you have no logical basis to believe in a creator. You make inductions based on little more than the lack of evidence to support an explicit claim of naturalism on all levels. It's a fallacious argument from ignorance. If you don't understand it, it must be supernatural in its qualities and explanation. This is the height of idiocy.

I have no desire to create more division than is necessary to distinguish those who believe nonsense and those who are more sensible in their convictions and beliefs. As I said in the letter, we have shared values and whether we agree on the basis of them, they are still common in that we think they are good, albeit not for the same ends anymore than the same beginnings.

September 17, 2012 at 2:37 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Ken Orr..

"If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through." (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

These two quotes from the Old Testament are just as inane, obsolete, and meaningless as the Islamic quotes you refer to. The fact that you or anyone takes anything from such ancient writings in the Koran or the Bible or any other "sacred" texts seriously, other than as the mythological curiosities that they are, is utterly bewildering. There is nothing to be deciphered from them; there is no "correct, positive way" of viewing them. They are the mythological babblings of mythological beings. That your or your Muslim friends even take them seriously, as if there is some profound meaning hidden in their core, is downright pathetic and creepy.

September 17, 2012 at 2:44 p.m.
Lr103 said...

And don't forget the story of Saul and Gods' instructions to destroy the people of Amaleku, and many believe are being used today in parts of the world :

1 Samuel 15: verse 3: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and as*s.

verse 4: And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.

verse 5: And Saul came to a city of Amalek, and laid wait in the valley.

verse 6: And Saul said unto the Kenites, Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them: for ye shewed kindness to all the children of Israel when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites.

verse 7: And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah, until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt.

verse 8: And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.

verse 9: But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.

verse 10: Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying.

Verse 11: It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord* all night.

September 17, 2012 at 3:17 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

That will surely happen. I do believe there is scientific evidence to prove it.

Let's have a look at that scientific proof, shall we?

(crickets chirping)

That's what I thought.

September 17, 2012 at 4:01 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"I do believe there is scientific evidence to prove it." - L4L

The closest anyone has come to proving anything about the existence or non-existence of God is Stephen Hawking. He has demonstrated, through physics, that God was not necessary for the creation of life or the universe. He has shown that it is highly likely that life was created and that we have evolved to our present state through a random coming together of the fundamental particles of nature. In his latest book, "The Grand Design," he says, "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going." Hawking has never stated emphatically, at least to my knowledge of his writings and lectures, that God does not exist, only that she/he/it was not necessary for the creation of life or the universe.

Of course, even if God can never be concretely proved or disproved, it comes down to a matter of choice and faith whether one belives in her or not. But even then, it is we who are CHOOSING to believe and we who are IMAGINING the type of God that we want to exist. God has always been a product of our imagination and not we who are created in (his) image, whatever image that might be.

September 17, 2012 at 7:15 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

There have been lots of scientific studies to look for evidence of the supernatural: Angels, effectiveness of prayer (when the recipient of the prayer is unaware they are being prayed for), ghosts, ESP, unicorns, pixies, demons, heaven, hell, intelligent alien life, telekinesis, clairvoyance, communicating with the dead, witchcraft and voodoo. There is NO evidence to date that any of these things are real in a supernatural sense. Statues crying or bleeding have all been explained using physical, non-supernatural phenomena, and prayer recipients, voodoo victims and seeing Jesus in a piece of toast or a rusty washing machine just shows how powerful the human mind can be.

Religion is based on faith and faith only. The good that comes from religion is the effect it can have as a community glue, binding people together in positive and long lasting ways, and as a source of cultural tradition and ritual. But you cannot demonstrate the supernatural premises behind religion. There is no physical evidence for it. This is why it is dangerous for religion to try to explain the real physical world: as humans learn more about the world using science, the old explanations are abandoned. If the old explanations are necessary to maintain the religious premise, they can't be let go, and belief can only continue if there is significant cognitive dissonance. (insisting on a literal reading of the KJV bible is an example: the earth was not created in its present form 8000 years ago, and there was not a literal Adam and Eve or a global flood) If religion cannot adapt to scientific progress, it becomes stagnant and detrimental.

September 17, 2012 at 9:54 p.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

I will speak plainly to those who believe only in that which they perceive through their five senses. You cannot perceive time with any of Your five senses...You cannot prove a specific thought has occurred by another person...X-rays, microwaves, infra red, ultraviolet and gamma rays, invisible, had to be discovered...dark matter...mathematical physics postulating new 'things' out there. How very, very, naive to believe that the only thing/entity that exists must be 'provable' by the scientific method! To have that glass ceiling upon one's intellect is truly a serious pity.

Here's one of my personally created quotes. This quote presents a fact, based on scientific principle: "True science, in order to exist, must bow down to the acknowledgement of metaphysics" kwo

September 18, 2012 at 12:10 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Orr,

"You cannot perceive time with any of Your five senses"

Yes, you can. You can SEE a clock and know what time it is. You can FEEL changes in the weather according to certain times of the day. You can SEE the Sun and where it is in the sky.

"You cannot prove a specific thought has occurred by another person

Not every thought. But sometimes you can. It's called body language and intuition. People use their senses and their mind to pick up on those.

"X-rays, microwaves, infra red, ultraviolet and gamma rays, invisible, had to be discovered"

And people used their senses and brain to discover them. This strawman you are creating isn't working. Confining 'proof' to the basic 5 senses is misleading and childish. All these things were discovered, yes. But they were, in fact, DISCOVERABLE. Your deity is not.

"How very, very, naive to believe that the only thing/entity that exists must be 'provable' by the scientific method!"

It isn't naive. It's life. Do you believe in unicorns as well? They haven't been proved. What about talking horses? They haven't been proved either. You assume what you are required to prove. That isn't how science or the world works. You cannot accept the existence of something based on the "possibility" of its existence. The severe lack of evidence for the Christian deity and the evidence contrary to the existence of your deity is startling.

You are the one with the glass ceiling. You will not allow your mind to grasp truth. You will not even search for it because you believe that you already have all the answers. You are willfully ignorant of facts. You are completely accepting of demonstrable lies and falsities. You cling to superstition, myth, and fallacy from a 2000 year old book. You reject facts, evidence and truth and, in the same breath, act as if you "faith" (gullibility) is, somehow, virtuous.

"True science, in order to exist, must bow down to the acknowledgement of metaphysics"

Metaphysics isn't science. It will never have any say over science or scientific endeavors. Keep your philosophical, Christian ignorance. I'll keep my science, reason, logic, and the constant search for truth.

Again, you are ignorant. Patently and willfully ignorant. I pity you and your family. It is truly disconcerting and disgusting to think that there are people like you, Ken Orr, in the world that will argue ad nauseum in favor of their own stupidity, lies, misinformation, and ignorance.

By the way, only douche bags quote themselves. Just type, jackass. Everything you type is a quote from yourself unless you copy and paste it.

September 18, 2012 at 12:29 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Ha! "A quote from himself".... How immensely ridiculous can this orr fella get before his church takes physical action to confiscate his computer.

I may have to call shenanigans on all of this bull crapola..

After observing the library silliness in his posts, I'm not sure that I believe orr is a real person at all..

Could it be that he's someone working to assist in the continued decline of religious fanaticism by discrediting the institutions and theologies that support it's existence?

Science and education are working from one end to help people understand the world around them,.. maybe "orr" types are working from the other end of religion to show how ridiculous non-science and un-education can come across.

September 18, 2012 at 7:41 a.m.

DAVID CLOSE, M.D, you're another doctor, who thinks the solution is letting people make their own choices. As if they were qualified to do so. Do you really think people know enough about medicine or health on their own?

Great idea, except the insurance companies are already quite practiced at skirting the law, and you know what happens when you are sick and dying? You don't have the energy to fight them and get the right result out of them.

Besides, what about the people who aren't young and healthy, who have health issues not of their own making? What will you do if they can't find health care or pay for it out of their own pocket?

Maybe you're the kind of person who thinks "Well, they get what they get" and lives without suffering any thought from it.

Others don't feel that way. We want people to be taken care of, and treated, just like we want somebody to build the roads, and somebody to defend the borders.

Why? Because we know we can't do it all ourselves. Sorry, but we're not uber-mensch Renaissance men.

And you're mistaken about court costs being ignored in the law, or a major driver of costs. We've had years of tort reform doing nothing except making some people suffer from injuries.

Maybe we need to stop listening to you.

NELL MOSES, I personally find putting God on money to be an act of sacrilege, an offense unto my religious sensibilities.

And if you want to find mention of separation of Church and State, you can find it in our state Constitution, which is quite explicit on the subject.

See if you can figure out why, instead of foolishly pretending your obvious pedantry isn't recognized as the transparent and hollow sophistry it really is. Do you not remember what your Bible says about that? Did you not know that Jesus supported the Spirit of the Law over the letter of it?

Some scholar you are.

September 18, 2012 at 11 a.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

Dr Close makes several valid points. I think a line has been blurred between healthcare ( what you can do for yourself) and medical care ( what you need others to do for you). Most everything that is ordered through an ER is subjected to the protocals of the hospital so many useless tests and repetitive tests are ordered. Not because the Doc is trying to to run up your bill but because you could be that one person who has that one condition so untill it is know that you don't have an acute condition the doc can't treat the cronic condition you have sighned in for. If he assumed and got it wrong you could suffer and he would be sued. That is the nature of defensive medicine. Rule it out! then give the over the counter med or the ace bandage along with a 1000$ bill. The other points are just as valid. Sit still and watch the people who walk by. How many are obese? Back pain , knee pain, hypertention, CHF, diabeties , sleep apnea, gen weakness, nausea and fatigue all are cronic conditions due to obesity, so what can a DR due for you? Do you want him to fix 30 yrs of neglect in 30 min? Got a magic pill for that? So if any one cares enough to see for themselves grab some krystals and sit in an ER lobby any night this week.See why medical care cost so much with your own eyes Step away from your keyboard and expand your world view you might walk away with a new respect for Dr Close's opinion.

September 18, 2012 at 11:08 a.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

Easy123, So You and DAO1980 truly believe that everything someone types (prints) is their own? Really? Do You really, really, assume that? What about plagiarism? Did I just hear someone say 'NAIVE' again?

And, Easy123...In case You didn't catch this earlier: Do You really feel confident arguing with the legends and modern day giants of physics? If You do have a Psychological Counselor (and i think everyone should have someone to talk with), then, ask them if You might fit the diagnosis of O.D. = [Oppositional-Defiant). Then treatment could transpire and You would soon find more freedom. This is friendly advice. kwo

September 19, 2012 at 1:26 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Orr,

"So You and DAO1980 truly believe that everything someone types (prints) is their own?"

No, that's why I made reference to copy and pasting.

"What about plagiarism?"

I already made reference to copy and pasting. Learn to read all the words.

"Did I just hear someone say 'NAIVE' again?"

No, you didn't.

"Do You really feel confident arguing with the legends and modern day giants of physics?"

I'm not arguing with physics. You seem to have a quarrel with it though. I'm not the one trying to defy science, nature, physics, logic, reason, etc. with outlandish claims.

"Then treatment could transpire and You would soon find more freedom."

The only person that needs treatment here is you. That has been well documented for a while now. You will never find freedom from your troubled past and delusional obsession with your religion unless you seek professional help.

September 19, 2012 at 2:28 a.m.
Easy123 said...

"ask them if You might fit the diagnosis of O.D. = [Oppositional-Defiant)"

You are not an authority figure. Neither is your mythological deity. Therefore, I do not fit the diagnosis. Should we go into the psychological diagnoses that fit you?

September 19, 2012 at 3:01 a.m.
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