published Friday, February 22nd, 2013

Climate change: Obama needs to move forward

Mr. President: The heat is on. No pun intended.

You made a pledge in your State of the Union address to get the country on track to combat and cope with climate change. You even said your administration will take executive action on climate change if Congress won't cooperate.

With gridlock in Congress, the ball most likely is going to stay in your court.

Climate change is a hard topic. Even reasonable people who love to talk about our changing weather patterns often roll their eyes when the words "climate change" or "global warming" are spoken.

So here are thoughts -- factoids, if you will -- from the Southeast.

• In 2010, up to 19 inches of rain over Tennessee's Cumberland River brought what has been called a "biblical" flood to Nashville, killing 24 Tennesseans and causing more than $2 billion in damage.

• The year 2011 -- with 492 tornadoes in the southeastern U.S. and most of them in one four-day outbreak -- went down in history as the deadliest tornado year across the region. When the devil winds were gone, 356 people were dead and more than 3,000 people were injured. More than a few of them were here.

• In 2012, Chattanoogans got an extra-early wave of heat in June -- JUNE -- with a string of 100-plus degree days. The mercury hit 107 on two of those days. The heat wave gave the Tennessee Valley Authority a new record power-use jolt and prompted local groups and officials to look harder at what the future may bring to this region.

• This January, a University of Tennessee researcher completed a first-of-its-kind study to predict heat waves for the top 20 cities in the eastern United States. His findings put the Tennessee Valley in the cross-hairs of climate craziness, predicting more intense heat waves and drastically wetter weather.

The region could see heat-waves increase in intensity by 4 to 6 degrees Fahrenheit.

And the Tennessee Valley's normal range of rainfall, about 30 to 60 inches a year, could increase to a range of 47 to 82 inches a year.

None of us like change and perhaps that's why buzz phrases like global warming and climate change make our shoulders slump. But in Chattanooga, at least, there is recognition that something has to give.

Last August, the city's outgoing mayor -- by executive order -- mandated that city departments and offices accomplish a 25 percent reduction in overall energy use by 2020. Painful? Yes, in the way changing habits can be, but it also is expected to save the city and taxpayers an estimated $2.85 million a year.

That's more than $22 million in the next eight years, and some city leaders say it's a conservative estimate.

If little bitty Chattanooga can do it, so can you, Mr. President.

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nucanuck said...

If we acknowledge climate change (AGW) and its implications, then we must by extension, acknowledge our responsibility to modify our problem-causing behavior. That, in a nutshell is why so many will find any excuse or minority view to cast doubt and defer taking personal responsiblity for what is now beyond any reasonable debate.

Ironically, many of the deniers are also the loudest proponents of personal responsibility...until it comes to climate change. Funny that!

Those who scream loudest for less government should be leading the charge for each and every one of us to take strong steps to reverse the damage that we are causing, but instead they tend to rail against government even suggesting that we must work together to address a humanity altering crisis that is staring us in the face.

We have all heard the litany of excuses and no doubt we will hear them again in response to this editorial. Those are the true takers...the irresponsible...the selfish...who are willing to ambrace false profits to avoid personal responsibility.

You know who you are!

February 22, 2013 at 1:23 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

I'm glad you admit responsibility for the ice ages, nucanuck.

February 22, 2013 at 6:05 a.m.
conservative said...

Hey nucanuck,

You are so funny!

You claim that you are consuming 2.3 earths and yet you preach to others to do something about the silly belief you have that man is causing global warming.

February 22, 2013 at 6:33 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Hey! We've got Andy and Conny together, now we just need Kenny Orr to round out the three stooges show.

February 22, 2013 at 7:52 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Nucanuck,

The reason conservative brings up your "2.3 earth's" statement in every post related to global warming that is addressed to you is because he has absolutely no clue what it means. When you deal with conservative, you are dealing with unbridled ignorance; one of the lowest IQ's of any TFP poster in my opinion. (AndrewLohr is right down there with him.)

February 22, 2013 at 8:20 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Curious that conservative even reads editorials about the natural world, as he rejects almost all science anyway. He'll be back on this thread repeatedly to say the same thing to the same people over and over.

February 22, 2013 at 8:31 a.m.
conservative said...

Hey nucanuck,

Did you ever figure out how many millions of the poor in India it would take to equal the carbon use of one Al Gore?

February 22, 2013 at 8:31 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Hey connie, have you calculated how many millions of "good" Christians it takes to undo the damage of one Fred Phelps?

February 22, 2013 at 8:34 a.m.
conservative said...

Hey nucanuck,

Why don't you ever quote this fellow Canadian :

"No matter if the science of global warming is all phony... climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world." - Christine Stewart, fmr Canadian Minister of the Environment

February 22, 2013 at 8:56 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Gee conservative, don't you have an answer? Or is it that you agree with Fred Phelps?

February 22, 2013 at 8:57 a.m.
dao1980 said...

I wonder why the science haters talk so big about "bunk this" and "bunk that", but are on computers, here, posting on a website?...

Conny & Andy, if you dislike the idea that groups of people doing the math and working diligently can solve problems.. don't use the fruits of their labor to solve your problems.

February 22, 2013 at 9:01 a.m.
conservative said...

Hey Ike.

It is impossible to damage Christianity. Did you get that bit of false wisdom from alprova?

BTW, Fred Phelps doesn't know God from a hole in the ground. He is one of yours.

February 22, 2013 at 9:02 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Most (maybe all) would say that Conny doesn't know God from a hole in the ground as well.

February 22, 2013 at 9:05 a.m.
conservative said...

Hey Ike,

Why don't you quote this scientist?

"Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun." - Prof Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University

February 22, 2013 at 9:05 a.m.
Easy123 said...

That quote speaks against your premise, moron.

February 22, 2013 at 9:10 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Gee, conservative, that's not much of an answer. Fred Phelps indeed gives Christianity a bad name. He damages it. You must agree with him then. Since you insist that we must agree with everything anyone on "our" side says about climate change, you must agree with Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, and Ted Haggard.

February 22, 2013 at 9:12 a.m.
dao1980 said...

HAHAHAHAHA! What a foolish posture, to ask people why they don't quote random choices is beyond silly and embarrassing. In a public forum no less.

Hey Conny, why didn't you say "bloop scloop biggity boop"???

Hey Conny, why didn't you quote this preacher? "Gawd hates liars and we're all liars" - The dude I sat through last sunday, Old tyme church in Ooltewah.

Here's a good one. Hey Conny, why don't you ever say anything enlightening??? Why don't you ever offer anything to the group that is worth listening to or reading??? Why are you such a belligerent-arse ding dang foolish fool???

February 22, 2013 at 9:12 a.m.
conservative said...

Hey Ike,

Guess who said this?

"We have utterly destroyed the planet.", "It's not just my position. It's reality"

February 22, 2013 at 9:15 a.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

Fred Phelps can't damage Christianity any more than you can.

February 22, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Answer mine first, connie. How many millions of "good" Christians are needed to undo the damage caused by Fred Phelps?

If you can ask inane questions and demand that we agree with everything a liberal ever said about climate, then we can do the same to you. Can't have it both ways.

Fred Phelps can't damage Christianity any more than you can.

Oh? How indeed can I, a lowly heathen, damage christianity? What a curious thought. Christianity has indeed been damaged-it has lost credibility, members and respect. Pastors like Fred Phelps and hateful, judgmental sheep like you and Ken Orr are my candidates. Since you seem not to be able to address the problem; indeed seem to think that ol' Fred hasn't done any damage, I think I am safe to assume you agree with him 100%.

February 22, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.
Easy123 said...

conservative,

"We have utterly destroyed the planet.", "It's not just my position. It's reality"

I did. And you have yet to even form a rebuttal against it. You simply repeat it.

The Earth we once knew no longer exists. I have provided link after link that proves that. You simply don't get it because you are patently ignorant about so many things.

February 22, 2013 at 9:18 a.m.
conservative said...

"A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal." - Ted Turner, founder of CNN and major UN donor

February 22, 2013 at 9:20 a.m.
conservative said...

IKe,

You misunderstood. Neither of you can damage Christianity.

February 22, 2013 at 9:23 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

"If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.*

February 22, 2013 at 9:23 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Christianity is already damaged beyond repair.

February 22, 2013 at 9:24 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

You are dodging, connie. Perhaps it is time for you to move to Kansas.

Wait, maybe you already ARE in Kansas? Hey, guys, we may have Fred Phelps' sock puppet here!

February 22, 2013 at 9:25 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Leviticus 15:19-23-

“‘When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Anyone who touches her bed will be unclean; they must wash their clothes and bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. Anyone who touches anything she sits on will be unclean; they must wash their clothes and bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, they will be unclean till evening."

February 22, 2013 at 9:26 a.m.
conservative said...

Did you ever notice that the doomer's such as this writer never criticize Al Gore, Nancy Pelosi, or Owebama for all those jet plane rides they take? They don't even try to measure their carbon footprint and what a laughable term that is anyway.

This writer better hope these hypocrites don't fly over Chattanooga because according to him we will all need a boat.

February 22, 2013 at 9:27 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Deuteronomy 23:1-

"No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the Lord."

February 22, 2013 at 9:27 a.m.
Easy123 said...

"Did you ever notice that the doomer's such as this writer never criticize Al Gore, Nancy Pelosi, or Owebama for all those jet plane rides they take?"

False.

"They don't even try to measure their carbon footprint and what a laughable term that is anyway."

False.

"This writer better hope these hypocrites don't fly over Chattanooga because according to him we will all need a boat."

Moronic.

February 22, 2013 at 9:29 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Deuteronomy 13:6-10

"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death,"

February 22, 2013 at 9:31 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Just damaging Christianity.

February 22, 2013 at 9:33 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Luke 14:26- (Jesus is speaking)

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple."

February 22, 2013 at 9:34 a.m.
conservative said...

easy said :

"We have utterly destroyed the planet.", "It's not just my position. It's reality"

"I did. And you have yet to even form a rebuttal against it. You simply repeat it."

February 22, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.
Easy123 said...

conservative,

Polly wanna cracker?

You don't have a rebuttal, so you just repeat what I said. It's common for people like you.

February 22, 2013 at 9:38 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Gee, connie, that was pathetic. Like bringing a banana to a gunfight.

February 22, 2013 at 9:38 a.m.
conservative said...

"We've got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy." - Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation

February 22, 2013 at 9:40 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Is that all you got, Fred? (Can I call you Fred? Mr. Phelps seems so formal.)

February 22, 2013 at 9:42 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Here you go Conny, all I did was google "christianity + decline" and grab the first few that came up. Regardless of each writers personal message, the greater reality seems pretty evident in the number of specific articles available.

Looks like you are actually damaging your religion's image, even religious publications have accepted this reality, though their position on the doom and gloom that "should" follow seems a little silly.

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/139575-7-startling-facts-an-up-close-look-at-church-attendance-in-america.html

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2012/04/09/why-is-christianity-on-the-decline-in-america/

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/how-will-the-shocking-decline-of-christianity-in-america-affect-the-future-of-this-nation

http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/10/09/the-decline-of-christianity-in-the-us&view=comments

February 22, 2013 at 9:43 a.m.
conservative said...

“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” – Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme

February 22, 2013 at 9:45 a.m.
Easy123 said...

"We've got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy."

That quote is from 1993. The global warming theory has been proven over and over again. Climate science is unequivocal on that fact. Also, Wirth is no longer the president of that foundation. Try again, moron.

February 22, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Funny you should use these quotes, connie. In all respects they are correct. We have exceeded the carrying capacity of the earth, and our numbers are not sustainable. That is the truth. However, none of these people are implying that wiping out 99% of the human population is the goal. Of course, from your perspective we could just kill everyone who does not believe as you do. That would leave the Westboro Baptist church. (less than 50 I think). That would do the trick.

February 22, 2013 at 9:49 a.m.
Easy123 said...

1 Thessalonians 2: 14-16- (a little anti-semitism)

"For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last."

February 22, 2013 at 9:50 a.m.
conservative said...

easy said :

"We have utterly destroyed the planet.", "It's not just my position. It's reality"

"I did. And you have yet to even form a rebuttal against it. You simply repeat it."

February 22, 2013 at 9:52 a.m.
conservative said...

“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.” – Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview

February 22, 2013 at 9:53 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.” – Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview

True. Your point?

February 22, 2013 at 9:55 a.m.
Easy123 said...

conservative,

Polly wanna cracker?

You don't have a rebuttal, so you just repeat what I said. It's common for people like you.

This is the fourth time you've parroted what I said. How about a fifth? Let's see how many times you can repeat it. Let your MR shine through.

February 22, 2013 at 9:55 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Right on que...the irresponsible takers are doing their pitiful best to stick to a sadly failed defensive position...so they can justify their own selfish behavior.

Way to go...losers!

February 22, 2013 at 9:56 a.m.
dao1980 said...

He's like a croaking frog, making a repetitious noise without actually saying anything..

February 22, 2013 at 9:56 a.m.
conservative said...

People have got to go. You can bet they are not on the list.

“… the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion.” – Club of Rome, Goals for Mankind

February 22, 2013 at 10:01 a.m.
Easy123 said...

"People have got to go. You can bet they are not on the list."

That quote said nothing about killing people nor did it imply it. It was talking about the "ideal sustainable population". There is an ideal population limit for the earth. Facts are facts. Again, you're ignorant beyond comprehension. Try again, you anti-Zeus.

February 22, 2013 at 10:04 a.m.
dao1980 said...

"Irresponsible takers" sounds like hippy talk to me..

An assessment of "sadly failed" seems erroneous.. the assertion of "selfish behavior" implies the desire to hold up a mirror without looking in it yourself... and the "s" you've got on the end of "looser" denotes a plural.. I could easily be mistaken here, please expound.

Wait! I've got it, there were two of them in the beginning, waaay up at the top of this thread... sorry..my bad... I thought we were getting fussed at for razzing Conny..(which is, admittedly a little selfish)

February 22, 2013 at 10:08 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

We can play too:

"Not only is homosexuality a sin, but anyone who supports fags is just as guilty as they are. You are both worthy of death." American Fred Phelps leader of the Westboro Baptist Church

February 22, 2013 at 10:09 a.m.
conservative said...

And you thought this guy just liked to go swimming

“One America burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes. This is a terrible thing to say in order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it’s just as bad not to say it.” – Jacques Cousteau, UNESCO Courier

February 22, 2013 at 10:10 a.m.
Easy123 said...

"And you thought this guy just liked to go swimming"

He's an oceanographer. What does that have to do with global warming?

February 22, 2013 at 10:16 a.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

He is one of yours. He is no more a Christian than you or your mentor alprova.

"Not only is homosexuality a sin, but anyone who supports fags is just as guilty as they are. You are both worthy of death." American Fred Phelps leader of the Westboro Baptist Church

February 22, 2013 at 10:17 a.m.
conservative said...

If they were just kooks we could just laugh, but these people are serious.

“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.” – Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, patron of the World Wildlife Fund

February 22, 2013 at 10:18 a.m.
Easy123 said...

"He is one of yours. He is no more a Christian than you or your mentor alprova."

You aren't a Christian by any stretch of the imagination. However, are you saying homosexuality is ok? Is Phelps' premise about homosexuals unchristian or against the Bible? Conservative accepts homosexuality?!

"If they were just kooks we could just laugh, but these people are serious."

Yet, we still laugh at you, kook.

You've moved the goalposts. First it was global warming, now it's eugenics. Which one is it? You're grasping at straws.

February 22, 2013 at 10:20 a.m.
conservative said...

The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing.” – Christopher Manes, Earth First!

February 22, 2013 at 10:25 a.m.
Easy123 said...

"The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing.”

The extinction of the human species is inevitable. And our extinction will be a good thing for the earth itself.

Try again, you mental midget.

February 22, 2013 at 10:27 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

OOOOoooo found another from your alter ego:

"The Lord sent a world-class whopper of a massacre to Virginia Tech, killing thirty-three, drawing headlines like 'Shocked!', 'Horrified!', 'The worst massacre in US history!'. Well, we wish you were thirty-three thousand killed, but we are thankful to our Father for thirty-three."

Fred Phelps

Of course, you agree with him because he is a Christian, and you guys always agree.

February 22, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.
conservative said...

And these people don't believe evil exists

“Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing.” – David Brower, first Executive Director of the Sierra Club

February 22, 2013 at 10:34 a.m.
conservative said...

"Fred Phelps"

"Of course, you agree with him because he is a Christian, and you guys always agree."

You also called Hitler a Christian. Do you call alprova a Christain also?

February 22, 2013 at 10:38 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Hitler was a Christian, sweetie. He said so, many times. And he truly believed that god approved of what he was doing. He's one of yours. Sorry.

Alprova says he is a Christian. Who am I to disagree?

February 22, 2013 at 10:41 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

*''Roosevelt...Am I wrong by saying there was a good portion of people that thought, 'Holy cow, I'm glad he's dead. He was turning into a dictator.'''

—Glenn Beck, on FDR, who was wildly popular after being elected four times, bringing America back from economic collapse, and leading the Allied powers to victory in World War II (May 21, 2010)*

There's another of yours. He's a good one for quotes because he has his own TV show.

Then there is Pat, one of my favorites:

*''It may be a blessing in disguise. ... Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. Haitians were originally under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon the third, or whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, we will serve you if you will get us free from the French. True story. And so, the devil said, okay it's a deal. Ever since they have been cursed by one thing after the other.''

—Pat Robertson, on the earthquake in Haiti that destroyed the capital and killed tens of thousands of people, Jan. 13, 2010*

February 22, 2013 at 10:43 a.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

"Hitler was a Christian, sweetie. He said so, many times. And he truly believed that god approved of what he was doing. He's one of yours. Sorry."

"Alprova says he is a Christian. Who am I to disagree?"

You, alprova, and Hitler would never be accepted as a member of a local assembly of Christians. Are you really that out of touch?

February 22, 2013 at 10:58 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Well, since I have no intention of being a member of a local assembly, Hitler is dead, and alprova actually IS a member of a local assembly, I'd say the one out of touch is you.

February 22, 2013 at 11:02 a.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

A serious question.

What do you believe are the requirements for one to be a Christian?

February 22, 2013 at 11:02 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Here's another Pat. I found 10 science mistakes on one 300 word editorial he published. Impressive.

Perhaps some of us misremember the past. But the racial, religious, cultural, social, political, and economic divides today seem greater than they seemed even in the segregation cities some of us grew up in. Back then, black and white lived apart, went to different schools and churches, played on different playgrounds, and went to different restaurants, bars, theaters, and soda fountains. But we shared a country and a culture. We were one nation. We were Americans.

Pat Buchanan

February 22, 2013 at 11:03 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova does not belong to a local assembly of Christians, Ike.

There are tenets of Christianity that have to be believed in order to be admitted as a member of a local assembly of Christians.

As a confessed atheist and "proud heathen" you would have no idea of Christianity and this is why you don't realize that you don't know what you are talking about.

February 22, 2013 at 11:09 a.m.
conservative said...

“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill.” – Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

February 22, 2013 at 11:12 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Oh, so you already knew the answer to your question? Why were you asking me? I'm just a lowly heathen.

Alprova does belong to a church, I'll bet, and it really burns your behind to think that you had to pass the test, pay the fee, get the secret decoder ring and go through the super-secret initiation, and all he had to do was accept Jesus as his savior. Do you feel cheated?

February 22, 2013 at 11:13 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Hey Conny, what?!?!?! You said: "There are tenets of Christianity that have to be believed in order to be admitted as a member of a local assembly of Christians."

Where does a "local assembly of christians" draw the line between what someone says they believe and how they act????

February 22, 2013 at 11:19 a.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

Wow!

You don't have a clue!

alprova, in his mind does'nt need a Savior and he surely doesn't know who Jesus even is.

I strongly suspect that he has been a member of a cult wich included those initiation secrets which you referred to.

See if you can drag it out of him.

In the meantime keep quoting all those false prophets who preach health and wealth non Christian gibberish. No Christian will resent it one teenie bit.

February 22, 2013 at 11:24 a.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

How about some Binny Hinn quotes.

You could spend hours on that one. Go ahead torment me.

February 22, 2013 at 11:29 a.m.
conservative said...

“We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts… Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.” – Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor of Climatology, lead author of many IPCC reports

February 22, 2013 at 11:32 a.m.
Easy123 said...

conservative,

You're too stupid to know that Ikeithlu has just made you prove your own hypocrisy.

You truly have no clue.

You keep cherry-picking irrelevant quotes from random people and attributing it to anyone that believes in global warming. Yet, when Ikeithlu quotes other Christians, you denounce their Christianity and play off the quotes as irrelevant. You don't see your own hypocrisy because you are stupid. You are patently ignorant. You're, without a doubt, mentally handicapped.

Ikeithlu laid the trap out perfectly and you fell into it like the hapless imbecile you truly are.

February 22, 2013 at 11:37 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Hey Conny, do you avoid Lucifer's testicles??

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/eastereggs.html

February 22, 2013 at 11:39 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I can play this game all day, connie. It's a stupid game and achieves absolutely nothing. The reality is that other people's religious beliefs are not your business, and you are in no position to judge who is a TROO CHRISTIAN (TM) and who is not. You want to lump everyone who accepts climate change into one group and insist that we account for all recorded quotes? Fine, then you must accept the same. Anyone who is a Christian by their own claims is a Christian, and you must answer to what they say. Fair is fair.

WE can play the quote game if you wish. It makes us both look silly and does not move the conversation forward. But time I have in abundance.

February 22, 2013 at 11:41 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative the Goddamn Liar,

Stephen Schneider (in response to his misused, incomplete, taken out of context quote),

In November, 1995, I debated Simon on Lateline, the Australian TV equivalent of the US Nightline program, on the issue of the Chronicle bet. In a segment they did not air, Simon charged that I advocate exaggerating science to enhance the appearance of environmental threats. To bolster this charge he resurrected an oft-quoted, but usually out of context partial quote, from a Discover Magazine interview in 1989 in which I decried soundbite science and journalism by pointing out that nobody gets enough time in the media either to cover all the caveats in depth, (i.e., “being honest”) or to present all the plausible threats (i.e., “being effective”). During the TV debate, months before Simon’s APS News article appeared, I pointed out that he was taking only part of the full quote and that part was seriously out of context — this is the same source he “quoted” in APS News. The full quote follows, where I have italicized what portions of it Simon quoted and brack- eted what I did not say but he attributed to me in the APS News article:

On the one hand, as scientists we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but — which means that we must include all the doubts, the caveats, the ifs, ands, and buts. On the other hand, we are not just scientists but human beings as well. And like most people we’d like to see the world a better place, which in this context translates into our working to reduce the risk of potentially disastrous climatic change. To do that we need [Scientists should consider stretching the truth] to get some broadbased support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have. This ‘double ethical bind’ we frequently find ourselves in cannot be solved by any formula. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. I hope that means being both.

http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/199608/upload/aug96.pdf

February 22, 2013 at 11:44 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Another exchange with that gem of a Christian, Pat Buchanan:

"White America died last night. Obama's reelection killed it. Our 200 plus year history as a Western nation is over. We're a Socialist Latin American country now. Venezuela without the oil."

Stunned by his clear racisim, Liddy tried to walk his guest back from the ledge:

"With what you just said right there...You seem to imply that white people are better than other people. That's not really what you're saying is it?"

"Of course that's what I'm saying," Buchanan replied "Isn't it obvious? Anything worth doing on this Earth was done first by white people."

"Who landed on the moon? White people. Who climbed Mount Everest? White people. Who invented the transistor? White people. Who invented paper? White people. Who discovered algebra? White people."

"And don't give me all this nonsense about Martin Luther King and civil rights and all that. Who do you think freed the slaves? Abraham Lincoln. A white guy!"

February 22, 2013 at 11:46 a.m.
nowfedup said...

Rather amusing how the tea potty and rigth wing nuts all hopped up about "Lower taxes (on rich who own 90% of nation) and cut spending (only for lower ends)to save the future for out children blah blah" which is often based on "forecasts". But when it comes time to save "kids future" from global warming, a proven and serious issue, well the heck with the kids as we need more profits.

February 22, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Now, Easy, you know what Christians think of Australia:

‘Australia is Sodom in the Pacific. And we got a map of it, shaped like, kinda like a fat weenie. You know how an Australian map looks right in the big middle of the ocean. Well we got Sodom written across it S O D O M . . . Absolutely you’re doomed . . . England and Australia are past any hope. They’ve spit in the face of God for the last time.’ ~ Fred Phelps, ‘Westboro Baptist Church’, 60 Minutes, Australia, 22 May 2011

February 22, 2013 at 11:49 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Ikeithlu,

"...kinda like a fat weenie."

That made me laugh out loud. Phelps has to be the most deranged, maladapted, insane, immoral, evil piece of sh!t on the face of the earth.

He's actually preaching the bible though. Conservative denounces him because he knows the consequences of being allied with such a person. Nothing Phelps says is contrary to the bible. No Christian, not even lowly conservative, can prove otherwise. Phelps' preachments are overtly evil and most Christians denounce him. Yet, if they took time to read their own holy book, they would realize that Phelps is getting his ideas from the bible itself.

February 22, 2013 at 11:56 a.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

Keep them coming. Add some quotes by "priests" who have sodomized children as well.

Dig up some quotes by Jim Jones, Tammy Faye Baker, the Mormon "church", and don't forget Jehovah Witness.

Go ahead torment me.

February 22, 2013 at 12:08 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I have no desire to torment anyone, conservative. What do you think I am, an atheist or something?

If you want to discuss the science issues surrounding climate change, great. Or not. We could just keep playing the quote game. You Christians have given me lots of material, so I can keep it up for a long time.

Or, you can admit that to discuss the actual issue you must stick with the issue itself and the evidence to support it, rather than using random quotes from people, mostly taken out of context, and claim that they disprove the argument.

There are some things that are simply true, whether you believe it or not.

February 22, 2013 at 12:17 p.m.
conservative said...

get on with it Ike, I have given you suggestions.

February 22, 2013 at 12:21 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Ikeithlu,

Notice how conservative won't acknowledge my quotes from his own holy book. I have so many more crazy biblical quotes. Yet, he won't address those quotes. i even quoted the fictional Jesus! But Jesus wasn't a Christian either! LMFAO!

February 22, 2013 at 12:22 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

get on with it Ike, I have given you suggestions

Hahaha. You haven't addressed or contradicted a single one yet. Why don't you start there?

February 22, 2013 at 12:22 p.m.
Easy123 said...

1 Corinthians 11:4-9-

"Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels. Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."

February 22, 2013 at 12:24 p.m.
Easy123 said...

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

February 22, 2013 at 12:26 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

I don't intend to contradict your quotes. I want you to keep them coming.

How plain can I make it.

Give us some quotes by sodomizing "priests."

February 22, 2013 at 12:27 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Nope. If you won't play, I won't either. I think I've made my point.

February 22, 2013 at 12:29 p.m.
Easy123 said...

1 Timothy 6:1-2

"All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

February 22, 2013 at 12:29 p.m.
Easy123 said...

1 Peter 2:18-20

"Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God."

February 22, 2013 at 12:31 p.m.
conservative said...

“The earth is literally our mother, not only because we depend on her for nurture and shelter but even more because the human sepcies has been shaped by her in the womb of evolution. Our salvation depends upon our ability to create a religion of nature.” – Rene Dubos, board member Planetary Citizens

February 22, 2013 at 12:31 p.m.
Easy123 said...

There's 4 quotes for you, conservative. I've got plenty more where they came from.

February 22, 2013 at 12:32 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

February 22, 2013 at 12:36 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Deuteronomy 22:20-21

"If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death."

February 22, 2013 at 12:38 p.m.
conservative said...

easy said,

"We have utterly destroyed the planet.", "It's not just my position. It's reality"

"I did. And you have yet to even form a rebuttal against it. You simply repeat it."

February 22, 2013 at 12:39 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Exodus 21:20

"Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."

February 22, 2013 at 12:40 p.m.
dao1980 said...

What a poor feeble, mentally impotent little fella ol' Conny has turned out to be. :(

He's been reduced to repeating himself.. probably shaking and quivering at his computer.. mumbling and fumbling through his rotten mind looking for something to offer... finding nothing..

His buddy Andy, left him alone.. so early in the game, to fend for himself.. with only the hope of a visit from Orr the tickle monster to keep him trudging along...

February 22, 2013 at 12:43 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Deuteronomy 23:12-14

"Designate a place outside the camp where you can go to relieve yourself. As part of your equipment have something to dig with, and when you relieve yourself, dig a hole and cover up your excrement. For the Lord your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your enemies to you. Your camp must be holy, so that he will not see among you anything indecent and turn away from you."

In other words, god doesn't like feces or urine.

February 22, 2013 at 12:43 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike:

"Anyone who is a Christian by their own claims is a Christian, and you must answer to what they say. Fair is fair."

That bears repeating.

"Anyone who is a Christian by their own claims is a Christian, and you must answer to what they say. Fair is fair."

That is just plain dumb, Ike. Study what you wrote Ike.

"Anyone who is a Christian by their own claims is a Christian, and you must answer to what they say. Fair is fair."

"Anyone who is a Christian by their own claims is a Christian, and you must answer to what they say. Fair is fair."

"Anyone who is a Christian by their own claims is a Christian, and you must answer to what they say. Fair is fair."

February 22, 2013 at 12:47 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Matthew 5:38-42

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.**

So much for needing those guns or self-defense! And give anything to anyone that asks!

February 22, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Ikeithlu,

conservative said..."That is just plain dumb, Ike. Study what you wrote Ike."

He's too stupid to realize what you're doing or how oblivious he is. He keeps taking the bait and falling into your trap.

February 22, 2013 at 12:51 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Luke 6:30

"Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back."

Jesus approves of thievery.

February 22, 2013 at 12:54 p.m.
conservative said...

“Climate Change will result in a catastrophic, global seal level rise of seven meters. That’s bye-bye most of Bangladesh, Netherlands, Florida and would make London the new Atlantis.” – Greenpeace International

February 22, 2013 at 1:16 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Factually correct quote. Your point?

You're getting desperate.

February 22, 2013 at 1:18 p.m.
conservative said...

“The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.” – emeritus professor Daniel Botkin

February 22, 2013 at 1:21 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Again, factually correct. Your point? Religion uses the same tactic except religion is myth, climate science isn't.

Your quotes aren't helping your cause, kook. You're getting desperate and grasping.

Try again. I know you will. You have that "foot to mouth" disease.

February 22, 2013 at 1:23 p.m.
conservative said...

"Unless we announce disasters no one will listen." - Sir John Houghton, first chairman of IPCC

February 22, 2013 at 2:11 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Again, factually correct statement. Your point in using that quote? Religion uses the same tactic except religion is myth, climate science isn't.

Your quotes aren't helping your cause, kook. You're getting desperate and grasping.

Try again. I know you will. You have that "foot to mouth" disease.

February 22, 2013 at 3:04 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

Ikeithlu passed along this gem from Fred Phelps: "Australia is Sodom in the Pacific. And we got a map of it, shaped like, kinda like a fat weenie."

I bet Fred and Shirley fell out like Tennessee Fainting Goats the first time they took a good look at the state of Florida on a map.

Dangly bits!

February 22, 2013 at 3:34 p.m.
Leaf said...

Oh no, it's like watching a defenseless baby giraffe getting eaten alive by jackals. Will no one come to conservative's defense? No one? Is he all alone? Poor dismembered conservative. Still bleating feebly as his entrails are devoured.

February 22, 2013 at 3:48 p.m.
timbo said...

Since man-made climate change doesn't exist, there is no need to comment on it. I won't debate with people who basically run their lives on a fantasy.

February 23, 2013 at 10:46 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

It exists whether you accept it or not, timbo. But not commenting on it is wise-you haven't shown much understanding of such topics in the past.

February 23, 2013 at 10:57 a.m.
timbo said...

Ikeithu..... What is the point in debating? We will never agree. To best you immature, childish fools is useless and kind of unfair. By the way, the boogie man doesn't live under your bed, the Easter bunny doesn't lay eggs, and Santa Claus Is not real. No...... I was wrong. To liberals, Santa Claus is the government.

February 23, 2013 at 11:08 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I rest my case. You have absolutely nothing to offer on the topic.

February 23, 2013 at 11:11 a.m.
timbo said...

likeithlu......Blah, blah, blah..... Oh, that really hurt my feelings.

February 23, 2013 at 11:13 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Bask in your ignorance, timbo. You've proven your ignorance over and over and over again. Today is no different. Your opinion and general perspective on reality is FUBAR.

February 23, 2013 at 12:06 p.m.
nucanuck said...

timbo, you are right about one thing. There is no reason to debate AGW any further. The debate is over and only the fringe still clings to doubts. As I said above, that way you don't have to feel responsible for your actions that continue to compound the problem. But that denial makes tou a taker...not doing your share for humanity.

In a way it's like you are on welfare...getting yours at the expense of others.

February 23, 2013 at 9:28 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

97% - 98% of real, honest-to-god climate scientists all over the world came to a consensus long ago that human induced climate change is real. Those are the ones the deniers are denying and they are placing their faith and trust instead in the posers, the shills, and the pseudo-scientists who have been paid to lie by big oil and the related industries. Timbo, you and your cohorts in denial are the ones living in your fantasy world.

Oh wait....timbo has commented before that he is an actual scientist and he has studied climate science extensively. I forgot about that. Never mind what I just said. How silly I feel now, for having doubted Renaissance man timbo. He builds businesses and carries the weight of the nation on his broad shoulders, he keeps the black helicopters away with his mighty arsenal, and he refutes every climate scientist alive with his massive intellect and far-reaching knowledge. Oh, Sir Timbo, forgive us unworthy liberals for having doubted you.

February 23, 2013 at 10:01 p.m.
gjuster said...

Even the IPCC admits there has been no warming in the last 12 years. And your 97% figure - it's 97% of the scientists that took federal money to prove AGW that agree with it. Its a bogus number

February 24, 2013 at 7:39 a.m.
Easy123 said...

gjuster,

Nothing you just said is factual.

February 24, 2013 at 11:04 a.m.
nucanuck said...

gjuster,

Best that you read more than just headlines if you want to truly understand climate change and how the information is compiled.

This is all about taking responsibility (or trying to avoid responsibility). Deniers seem to serach out any mote of discrepancy to avoid that which has now become scientific fact.

February 24, 2013 at 11:19 a.m.
nowfedup said...

I guess the debate on this page is pretty much summed up by one comment I noted "He is an Oceanographer, so what does he know about global warming?"

That pretty much sums up the education level and science background of most of the anti warming folks, ranks right up there with the fools that say "well if we are warming how come it snow this winter". Yep ole USA 37th in education and getting worse, but "we kin brung them thar guns to school to save us'ns all, but not a dime for butter book lernuning stuff", and it shows

February 24, 2013 at 11:34 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Nowfedup,

Reading comprehension is a problem.

The actual quote was: "He's an oceanographer. What does that have to do with global warming?"

The "that" I was referring to was the eugenics quote from Jacques Cousteau. It had nothing to do with global warming.

Not only did you misquote me, but you took the quote out of context. You might want to take your foot out of your mouth before you talk again.

February 24, 2013 at 11:53 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

gjuster...the 97% figure includes scientists WORLDWIDE, not just American scientists. Your argument that climate scientists are biased because they took federal money is a meaningless one when you consider the scientists from other countries. To think that practically every climate scientist worldwide is involved in a liberal conspiracy is not just a foolish imagining but an insane one.

Not long ago there was a petition in circulation that ended up being signed by approximately 32,000 "scientists" who claimed to deny anthropogenic global warming. Most deniers cite that petition as evidence that there is still a lot of doubt in the scientific community about climate change and that there really is no consensus. But the fact is, the vast majority of the signers of that petition not only had not done any research whatsoever in climatology, they did not even have degrees in science. The petition had originally been targeted to anyone who had a degree in any scientific field, regardless of whether or not they had even studied the climate or anything related to global warming; and then it degenerated to the point that anyone with any scientific credentials, even a degree in pharmacology or botany, could sign it, and then it was posted on the internet where anyone at all could sign it, whether they had a degree in science or not. By the time it had made its rounds only 1-2% of all signers had anything at all to do with actual climate science. When you deniers keep saying that there is still a wide-open "debate" among scientists about global warming, it is that bogus petition that is largely responsible for that faulty reasoning.

One more thing: One of the most prominent deniers of global warming, a physicist named Richard Muller, who for years had stated with confidence that global warming was not happening, not long ago reversed his position completely. He said this: "Three years ago I identified problems in previous climate studies that, in my mind, threw doubt on the very existence of global warming. Last year, following an intensive research effort involving a dozen scientists, I concluded that global warming was real and that the prior estimates of the rate of warming were correct. I’m now going a step further: Humans are almost entirely the cause." Do you think he was influenced by federal money? Think again. He started his research with a large portion of the funding coming from the Koch brothers, who were intent on finding scientists who would refute the climate scientists in any way. All the while he was intending to compile more evidence to refute the findings of the climate scientists, he was coming up with evidence that confirmed their findings instead.

February 24, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.
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