published Monday, January 14th, 2013

The hottest year yet

A National Climatic Data Center weather analysis released last week found that 2012 was the hottest year ever recorded in the United States since records began being kept in the lower 48 states in 1895. The average temperature rose to 55.3 degrees Fahrenheit, a full 1 degree higher than in the previous highest year. Skeptics of global warming may not recognize it, but the new record should spur action toward a tax on carbon emissions.

Last year's record-breaking heat and severe drought are stunning in their own right. They're even more remarkable when viewed in context with the rising heat trends and extreme weather events of recent decades. Differences in annual average temperatures are typically measured in fractions of a degree: a full 1 degree increase over the previous high, in 1998, is exceedingly rare. The 2012 high temperature averages across the country that helped squash the national 1998 record are equally dramatic examples of an alarming trend of ever hotter weather.

A weather station log kept by Weather Channel meteorologist Guy Walton, The New York Times reported, showed that 34,008 daily high temperature records were recorded across the country, while just 6,664 record lows were set in 2012. That differential reflects significant weather pattern changes. The ratio between average high temperature records and average low temperature records was fairly even until the 1970s. Since then, the margin has been shifting significantly toward many more high temperature records around the country, and far fewer low temperature records. Yet the imbalance between the two had never been as dramatic as it was last year.

"The heat was remarkable," the National Climatic Data Center's Jack Crouch told The Times. "It was prolonged. That we beat the record by one degree is quite a big deal."

Crouch further noted the significance of the temperature margin between the coldest year on record in the lower 48 states, in 1917, versus the previous hottest year, in 1998. The differential between the two records was just 4.2 degrees Fahrenheit. The 2012 record, increasing that margin by a full 1 degree, marks an usually higher percentage shift.

It comes as well as part of a larger backdrop of increasingly warmer average temperatures. The 10 warmest years on record in the United States all came within the past 15 years. The last year in which the average global temperature dropped below the 20th century average temperature was 1985.

Perhaps more reflective of the heat waves of 2012 is the number of extreme weather events that occurred in the United States, and the severe drought that plagued more than 60 percent of the country -- killing crops and trees at a record pace. Eleven major weather disasters exceeded the $1 billion mark in damage. These included severe tornado outbreaks, major hurricanes like Isaac and Sandy -- the latter has already been given a $60 billion price tag -- and the "derecho," the broad line of severe, rapidly moving thunderstorms that pummeled central and eastern states in late June.

As the climate continues to warm because of increasing levels of greenhouse gas emissions -- chiefly the carbon released in the burning of fossil fuels -- the number of extreme weather events continues to rise apace around the globe. For instance, Australia, now in summer, is already experiencing more record heat waves and ferocious wildfires in all its parched states. What rain it gets also continues to come in deluges, reflecting the extremes of drought and floods.

Climate science confirms this dynamic has been worsening around the world for years. As the warming atmosphere triggers ice and tundra melt, it warms oceans and fans volatile weather patterns. Hotter temperatures spur drought and dry soil, and are followed by greater moisture uptake from warmer oceans and subsequent deluges and floods.

Scientists reasonably predict that as the Earth's natural carbon sinks are destroyed -- as forests are clearcut and polar ice and permafrost melt and oceans warm, the carbon sequestered in these sinks over eons is released -- the rate of global warming will increase exponentially. Which means the tipping point for more rapid global warming is already near, and probably beyond the carbon-restraints that would return us to the normal weather we used to enjoy.

At this point, the best we can hope is that political leaders will impose carbon-tax policies to finance the things that nations must do to cope with worsening climate change. Yet in Washington, such political will isn't yet on the horizon.

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Easy123 said...

Bring on the global warming deniers!

January 14, 2013 at 12:34 a.m.
conservative said...

The first paragraph reveals the lie and the goal of this writer and many others pushing the man made GLOBAL warming hoax. No, he didn't go so far as to say YOU are causing GLOBAL warming but he came close. Maybe some of the usual suspects will show up and claim that they are, but I doubt it.

Now to specifics. Notice the writer equates the temperature of the United States to GLOBAL warming. Now you see why I put it in caps. The United States is not the whole globe!

Again, he doesn't quite go so far as to say that YOU are causing GLOBAL warming since you live in the United States but he sure hopes he can fool YOU into thinking they are the same.

He comes close to blaming YOU directly with this - "but the new record should spur action toward a tax on carbon emissions." Do you see that? The agenda is a new tax, a carbon tax to be specific. He wants YOU to pay higher prices for gasoline, YOUR electric bill, he wants YOU to pay higher prices for EVERYTHING that YOU buy!

But he just can't directly say that because YOU live in the United States, YOU are causing GLOBAL warming and YOU should pay higher taxes and prices because of it, but he sure came close.

January 14, 2013 at 7:49 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Although I am not sure what actions are plausible or even possible, to say that the climate isn't changing is pretty silly. It is changing, and 7 billion people on earth is part of the problem. It is not that the climate has been the same for 4.6 billion years-it has been hotter and colder. But the fast changes that are happening now, changes that used to take thousands or even tens of thousands of years, IS unusual. As a rich western nation, we will adapt. But millions are already living on the edge-they will be affected. Animal and plant species that are already at risk may disappear faster. Saying that it isn't happening is not getting us any closer to a solution.

And conservative, before you go through your silly sequence of what I personally am doing to cause or remedy this, remember: you believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old, so the idea of climate changing is meaningless. You are operating from a completely incorrect paradigm, right from the start.

January 14, 2013 at 9:33 a.m.
conservative said...

So Ike, what are YOU doing to cause global warming?

January 14, 2013 at 9:55 a.m.
gjuster said...

There has been no statistical warming of the planet for the last 12 years. This is according to the IPCC and the Met Office in the UK - both that have been pushing man made GW.

In addition, one of the reasons for higher temps than the past is that civilization has grown around the weather stations. For example, the reporting station at O'hare airport used to be in the country - now there is the world's busiest airport around it. We "deniers" believe in science not hearsay. Historically, there is no uptick of extreme weather - in fact recorded tornado's and hurricanes are currently in a lull. It would be nice if one or two of the dire predictions would come true - just to show that their models are right - but they are not.

I also noticed that the writer brought up Australia - but forgot to mention Russia or China who are having record cold weather.

January 14, 2013 at 11:57 a.m.
conservative said...

gjuster:

Very Good!!

I frequent a weather site where if you purchase a weather station you can send the readings to the site. I noticed in one city a great variation of temperature recorded from one site. I went to the satellite picture of that weather station and noticed the homeowner had placed it close to a paved road making his recordings about 5 degrees hotter than the others located in the city.

The site has parameters for the proper location of a home site so I don't know how they allowed this one to continue giving false readings. For as little as 3-4 hundred these home weather stations can be purchased and they are very accurate. However they must be placed a certain distance from hot and cold sources.

It boils down to Location, Location and Location.

Again, good job!!

BTW, no model has been right yet. GIGO.

January 14, 2013 at 12:39 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Gjuster,

" We "deniers" believe in science not hearsay."

No, you do not. Global warming is unequivocal.

"It would be nice if one or two of the dire predictions would come true - just to show that their models are right - but they are not."

The predictions are coming true. You just rationalize it as something else instead of global warming. Your post proves that. You believe in bunk science and misinformation.

January 14, 2013 at 12:42 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

It's pathetic that so many conservatives and deficit hawks are more worried about their children and grandchildren having to pay off some future "debt" that will never actually materialize anyway than they are about whether or not they will even have a decent planet to live on if we don't do something about our willful neglect concerning climate change.

January 14, 2013 at 2:15 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Given that scientists DO understand the variations that measurements show over time (better equipment) and area (city vs country,etc) and 98% or more agree that the overall global temperatures are up, Ocean temperatures are up, ocean acidity is up and that the climate zones are shifting location, that the sea level is rising, it is amazing that we are still talking about whether it is happening. Either you accept what thousands of climate scientists are saying about the vast amount of data that has been collected, or you would have to believe that they are all involved in some conspiracy to fool us all.

But the age of the earth and evolution are much better established, and 40% of our citizens don't accept that either.

January 14, 2013 at 2:29 p.m.
Easy123 said...

I wonder what it's like to actively accept bunk science and even argue in favor of those lies. Whether it is evolution, the age of the earth, the Big Bang, global warming, etc., how is it possible for so many people to believe information that is verifiably and demonstrably false?

How is it that someone, anyone can deny things that are unequivocal?

January 14, 2013 at 2:48 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Easy, I think one of the problems is that Faux News has such a powerful influence over the sheeple. It was bad enough before they came on the scene, but now they have a strangle-hold on so many people's minds and it's even harder to break them out of their spell of ignorance. They live in a faux-news world where their warm-and-fuzzy ideology trumps reason and facts.

January 14, 2013 at 2:57 p.m.
timbo said...

slEasy123, Rickaroo, lkeitlu..... Just the fact that the jump was 1 degree should be a red flag that the data is wrong. There has never been a change greater than .1 degree much less 1 degree.

I don't know if any of you have a science background but I do. The case for man-made global climate change is weak and self serving. Also, the implication that someone in the global warming gaggle would make up data in a conspiracy is not only likely but has already happened.

Remember when James Hansen, Director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies; Michael Mann, famous for Mann's "Hockey Stick"; Gavin Schmidt, NASA climate modeler, and; Stephen Schneider, Stanford professor and Al Gore confidant all were caught red-handed falsifying data to hide temperature decline.

All climate change data is tainted by the authors need for funding. With proof that falsifying data has already happened means that this data can't be trusted. Your belief in it's validity is an indication of your politics not your analytical skills.

Human activity is a drop in the bucket compared to natural causes of climate change. If the climate is changing there is little we can do about it and "taxing" it want help.

January 14, 2013 at 3:06 p.m.
Easy123 said...

bimbo,

"Just the fact that the jump was 1 degree should be a red flag that the data is wrong."

No, it isn't.

"There has never been a change greater than .1 degree much less 1 degree."

False.

"I don't know if any of you have a science background but I do."

I would bet the ranch I have a more extensive science background that you.

"The case for man-made global climate change is weak and self serving."

False and false.

"Also, the implication that someone in the global warming gaggle would make up data in a conspiracy is not only likely but has already happened."

And? So has your side, but much more so by relying on bunk science and outright lies.

"All climate change data is tainted by the authors need for funding."

Prove it.

"With proof that falsifying data has already happened means that this data can't be trusted."

Global warming has not been falsified by real science.

"Your belief in it's validity is an indication of your politics not your analytical skills."

No, that would apply to you and your ilk. There is no denying global warming. It is unequivocal. This has nothing to do with politics in my case. It has everything to do with politics in yours.

"Human activity is a drop in the bucket compared to natural causes of climate change."

Not quite.

"If the climate is changing there is little we can do about it and "taxing" it want help."

The climate is changing. It's verifiable. We can do something about it. That fact is demonstrable. Taxing it would, in fact, help. However, we've likely reached the point of no return. The earth, as we knew it, is likely long gone.

January 14, 2013 at 3:32 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Timbo, I don't know what your science credentials are but unless you're an actual climate scientist who has devoted extensive research to climatology, your home-grown "research" ain't worth diddly. One would not turn to a podiatrist if he had a brain tumor. Any non-climate scientist weighing in on the global warming debate carries as much weight as a podiatrist or a dermatologist trying to treat a tumor on the brain.

There's a reason we have specialists in science and medicine. We look to the specialists in their fields to give us clarity, expertise, and detailed knowledge. You global warming deniers listen and pay heed to everyone BUT the actual climate scientists who know better than anyone what is going on. 98% of them, world-wide, are in consensus about human induced global warming. Yet you choose to believe that every one of them is in cahoots, involved in a left-wing conspiracy... just so they can get funding?! And you place your trust instead in the shills who are obviously paid off by big-oil and the related industries to lie for them. For you to think that a century's worth of us humans dumping noxious gases into the atmosphere has not had some deleterious effect on our climate is beyond stubborn and stupid. That is stupid to the nth degree.

FYI...Professor Richard Muller, once one of the most noted scientists who continued to deny the fact that global warming even existed, now says that it does and he says we are to blame.

In a New York Times editorial, Muller wrote, "Three years ago I identified problems in previous climate studies that, in my mind, threw doubt on the very existence of global warming. Last year, following an intensive research effort involving a dozen scientists, I concluded that global warming was real and that the prior estimates of the rate of warming were correct. I’m now going a step further: Humans are almost entirely the cause."

BTW, as Muller was doing his latest research he was doing it with the help of money from the Charles Koch Charitable Foundation, which happens to give a lot of money to global warming skeptics. So he was in no way "tainted" by government funding.

January 14, 2013 at 3:55 p.m.
conservative said...

Timbo:

Your "Human activity is a drop in the bucket compared to natural causes of climate change. If the climate is changing there is little we can do about it and "taxing" it won't help" is of course correct.

But the lie of man made global warming in order to raise taxes is much worse than that, not to mention the hypocrisy.

If an activity was truly killing mankind and destroying the planet, one would not tax it but it eliminate it! We would not try to raise revenue on it's use, but we end it's use!

As long as the Liberals will limit the use of nuclear power, we will depend on coal, oil and natural gas to a large degree and for many.years to come.

Thank GOD for nuclear power, oil, coal and natural gas!

January 14, 2013 at 3:58 p.m.
Easy123 said...

conservative,

"If an activity was truly killing mankind and destroying the planet, one would not tax it but it eliminate it! We would not try to raise revenue on it's use, but we end it's use!"

That's the plan. Reduction through taxation. Why are you so clueless?

"As long as the Liberals will limit the use of nuclear power, we will depend on coal, oil and natural gas to a large degree and for many.years to come."

Ignorance.

"Thank GOD for nuclear power, oil, coal and natural gas!"

You should probably thank ancient plants and Einstein instead.

January 14, 2013 at 4:03 p.m.
conservative said...

Question.

Where is the list of thousands of Climatologists that unequivocally state that man is causing global warming along with such proof?

You will not see such a list, it doesn't exist. All that exists is the lie that such a list exists.

January 14, 2013 at 4:07 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Con-man, for god's sake, just do a little googling, man. Type in "global warming consensus" and you will find numerous websites that easily show what near-unanimous agreement there is among the climate scientists. If you haven't already done so, then it only exposes you for the half-assed research you're obviously guilty of, looking up only the "evidence" that supports your biased and pre-formed conclusions. If you choose not to believe the factual evidence, as you obviously do not, that is your prerogative. But don't compound your stupidity by pretending that a consensus of climate scientists doesn't exist. Furthermore, there are NO national or major scientific institutions anywhere IN THE WORLD that dispute the theory of anthropogenic climate change. None.

January 14, 2013 at 4:28 p.m.
conservative said...

Anyone claiming they are causing global warming yet?

January 14, 2013 at 4:30 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

conservative, you can educate yourself here:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/

but you probably won't

January 14, 2013 at 4:31 p.m.
Easy123 said...

conservative,

"You will not see such a list, it doesn't exist. All that exists is the lie that such a list exists."

http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientif...

I'll be waiting on your retraction.

"Anyone claiming they are causing global warming yet?"

Many are.

January 14, 2013 at 4:35 p.m.
conservative said...

nucanuck:

Since you are consuming 2.3 earths, you must surely be causing global warming. Why not step up and be the first to claim that you are causing global warming? Show some leadership for the rest of the kooks.

January 14, 2013 at 4:37 p.m.
Easy123 said...

nucanuck didn't post here. Your copy and paste skills are getting worse.

We are all causing global warming; mainly, our way of life. Welcome to reality, kook.

January 14, 2013 at 4:39 p.m.
conservative said...

Copy and paste the names, credentials and proof that any true scientist would submit in his findings and research.

January 14, 2013 at 4:43 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

Take your lazy ass to one of the 4 links provided and look for yourself.

January 14, 2013 at 4:53 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Con-man, copy and paste your birth certificate along with a list of names of people who can verify your existence. I find it almost impossible to believe that someone as dense and stupid as you actually exists.

January 14, 2013 at 4:55 p.m.
conservative said...

no list of thousands of climatoligist, their credentials, their proof yet.

January 14, 2013 at 5:02 p.m.
timbo said...

Rickaroo......Let's say you are right and man has effected the climate. The earth is a huge system. If that snow-ball is rolling down the hill, it will roll until the system can right itself. That is not 10 or 20 years, it is thousands of years. When any other natural occurrence happened like a meteor or large eruption it took thousands of years to get over the changes in climate. If we have changed our climate in a measly 100 years of fossil fuel burning, and the climate is affected, there is no way stopping carbon additions will help anything in time to "save" the human race. The planet will go on no matter. If you are right, money would be better spent moving populations from the coast to inland. Even Harry said it in his article, "Which means the tipping point for more rapid global warming is already near, and probably beyond the carbon-restraints that would return us to the normal weather we used to enjoy." If you really believe this stuff why don't you buy you some ocean front property in say Asheville.

The problem is that all of the carbon put in the atmosphere by humans in their total history doesn't add up to one good volcanic eruption. Hundreds of eruptions happen every year.

Being lectured by Rickaroo about about the technical world is like having a 6 year old explain the theory of relativity. I have evaluated data for 30 years. Data is data and the scientific method is the same. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can show call themselves a "climatologist" or "expert" just look at that con-man Al Gore. He has a journalism degree. That makes him double dishonest.

As far as anyone being stupid, you prove that every time your fingers hit the key board. You probably watch "Finding Bigfoot." This is "stylish" and "hip" for all you liberal idiots to believe this stuff because it fits your world view. Why don't you be our example and move into a cave and live the natural life? That's right, Al Gore is your role model..living in his mansion, flying around in his private jet....

No one thinks that everyone is in the "conspiracy." Most of you are just dupes that repeat whatever left wing idiocy that you can come up with to tax something. As stated in my above post, the top people in this hoax have been proven to be liars.

That is an indication that this hoax has no scientific basis at all. That is not my political judgement, it is my technical judgement.

January 14, 2013 at 5:02 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"That is an indication that this hoax has no scientific basis at all. That is not my political judgement, it is my technical judgement." - timbo

Well, well. Thus saith timbo. So it must be so. Thirty years of his data and technical expertise no doubt trump all of those climate scientists who dare to even call themselves climate scientists. Screw those charlatans anyway! Let it be know that climate change is nothing but a left-wing conspiracy, because that's what timbo's data tells us. We can breathe a sigh of relief now. Let's all eat, drink, bathe in our oil, and crap it out of our asses. Let's keep on belching it of our cars and trucks and spewing it out of our factories. It's the American way. Good ol' God-given oil and coal and gas. If it's dirty, well, God made it that way so it must be okay.

Timbo hath spoken. End of discussion. Let the world carry on.

January 14, 2013 at 5:31 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

In a quick search I found this:

Volcanoes emit CO2 and SO2: carbon dioxide and sulphur dioxide are the main gases that might be construed to cause global warming or pollution. Volcanoes emit around 100,000,000 tonnes of CO2 a year. Compare that to man-made emissions of CO2 which comes to about 10,000,000,000 tonnes of CO2 per year. So volcanoes emit around 1/100th of CO2 that we do and are therefore insignificant in terms of global warming.

About SO2:

There has been some research in the last few years that suggests very large eruptions such as Pinatubo in 1991. That eruption emitted about 20 megatonnes of SO2 into the stratosphere. Eruptions such as those which happen once every decade in fact have slowed down global warming a little bit. Without those eruptions we’d actually see the effects of global warming much more now than we do.

January 14, 2013 at 5:47 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike, I am laughing so hard I can hardly control myself.

Your research: "There has been some research in the last few years that suggests very large eruptions such as Pinatubo in 1991. That eruption emitted about 20 megatonnes of SO2 into the stratosphere. Eruptions such as those which happen once every decade in fact have slowed down global warming a little bit. Without those eruptions we’d actually see the effects of global warming much more now than we do."

Now Marie at MacResource (Click MacResource for the latest Hot Buys and Deals!) Tips and Deals ---- 'Friendly' Political Ranting

"Marie- Yes. There has been some research in the last few years that suggests very large eruptions such as Pinatubo in 1991. That eruption emitted about 20 megatonnes of SO2 into the stratosphere. Eruptions such as those which happen once every decade in fact have slowed down global warming a little bit."

Is Marie one of your climatologists Ike?

January 14, 2013 at 6:20 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

http://geology.usgs.gov/postdoc/profiles/edmonds/index.html

There is Marie, you smug little troll, conservative.

I challenge you to question her credentials in her field.

January 14, 2013 at 6:36 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

What? No response from conservative? Color me surprised.

January 14, 2013 at 7:03 p.m.
conservative said...

So,post her credentials, reserch and proof of man made global warming. And don't forget the thousands of others with who agree with her.

January 14, 2013 at 7:12 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

So you admit that you were wrong about her? Must have been the woman's name. No way a woman could be a legitimate scientist, right?

So did you go to the sites that I and others linked? No, because you are so sure you are always right.

January 14, 2013 at 7:18 p.m.
conservative said...

You are inventing a strawman. I merely found the exact words you presented with no source of a website. I already cited in my 6:20 comment where I found the exact words and busted out laughing.

Now quit stalling and start pasting the list of names of those climatolgist who claim man is causing global warming, their credentials, the research, and proof of such claims.

It is easy and common to say all of the above exists. I say it is not the truth and such info does not exist, get on with it.

January 14, 2013 at 7:33 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

The question was about volcano emissions compared to that of burning fossil fuels. If you have a question about volcanoes, you talk to an expert on volcanoes. I provided a source that compared CO2 and SO2 emissions from volcanic activity to human activity. You have something to counter it? From your bible perhaps? What does it say about volcanic emissions?

You were given sources regarding consensus on climate which you refused to read. No big surprise there.

Since you are too lazy to do it yourself:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftigger.uic.edu%2F~pdoran%2F012009_Doran_final.pdf

http://www.wunderground.com/resources/climate/928.asp#consensus

Of course, since you reject most accepted science (age of earth, evolution) you will not accept this either.

January 14, 2013 at 7:47 p.m.
conservative said...

No, no, no.

Here is original comment you challenged and objected to: Question.

Where is the list of thousands of Climatologists that unequivocally state that man is causing global warming along with such proof?

You will not see such a list, it doesn't exist. All that exists is the lie that such a list exists.

January 14, 2013 at 4:07 p.m.

Now, get on with it.

January 14, 2013 at 7:52 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

All there for you to see. But your eyes are closed.

So, tell me: since the bible is all you read, what does it have to say about climate?

January 14, 2013 at 7:53 p.m.
conservative said...

If it was there, you would paste it. Now get on with it

January 14, 2013 at 7:58 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I did, hon. The link is there. scared?

January 14, 2013 at 7:59 p.m.
conservative said...

A link you pasted means nothing. If the info you say is there in the link then paste it here. I wouldn't even hesitate to do this if I had to offer proof of any claim.

January 14, 2013 at 8:16 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

The link leads to a document that is too big to post here. Nice dodge, though. You have no intention to see this evidence.

January 14, 2013 at 8:18 p.m.
conservative said...

It doesn't exist and that is why I won't chase that rabbit and you can't provide a list of climatolgist who claim and can prove that man is causing global warming.

January 14, 2013 at 8:27 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Meaning you are a liar and refuse to make one click and read what is there. Big surprise. What would Jesus think?

Your dishonesty is here for all to see. I will remember. Next time you demand something and then refuse to read it I'll remind you. Sorry that the real world cannot be condensed like your bible quotes to fit on the TFP comment section.

January 14, 2013 at 8:31 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Con-man, practically every biologist in the world believes in the validity of the theory of evolution. Would a list of names of those scientists make any difference for you? Of course not. We all know that you think evolution is a lie. As far as your narrow, rigid little mind is concerned, your sky daddy created human beings by zapping them into existence in the Garden of Eden. You think you're being a smart ass, trying to make a point by insisting on a list, but really you're just being a dumb ass. Nothing smart about you at all.

January 14, 2013 at 8:37 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative is mentally handicapped. That handicap is commonly known as Christianity; more specifically, WingNut Christianity.

January 15, 2013 at 5:46 a.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

The age of the earth? Please research the 'Gap Theory' of Genesis 1:1-2. Along side of this please research 'Pre-Adamites'. There are no contradictions/fallacies in Holy Scripture!

Gap creationists believe that science has proven beyond reasonable doubt that the Earth is far older than can be accounted for by, for instance, adding up the ages of Biblical patriarchs and comparing it with secular historical data.

To maintain that the Genesis creation account is inerrant in matters of scientific fact, Gap creationists suppose that certain facts about the past and the age of the Earth have been omitted from the Genesis account; specifically that there was a gap of time in the Biblical account that lasted an unknown number of years between a first creation in Genesis 1:1 and a second creation in Genesis 1:2-31. By positing such an event, various observations in a wide range of fields, including the age of the Earth, the age of the universe, dinosaurs, fossils, ice cores, ice ages, and geological formations are allowed by adherents to have occurred as outlined by science without contradicting their literal belief in Genesis.

Of course there is much more information about this. kwo

January 15, 2013 at 7:53 a.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

Biblical support:

Because there is no specific information given in Genesis concerning the proposed gap of time, other scriptures are used to support and explain what may have occurred during this period and to explain the specific linguistic reasoning behind this interpretation of the Hebrew text. A short list of examples is given below: The word "was" in Genesis 1:2 is more accurately translated "became". Such a word choice makes the gap interpretation easier to see in modern English. Deuteronomy 32:4, Isaiah 45:18 1 John 1:5 The Holy Spirit was "renewing" the face of the earth as he hovered over the face of the waters. Psalms 104:30 Angels already existed in a state of grace when God "laid the foundations of the Earth", so there had been at least one creative act of God before the six days of Genesis. Job 38:4-7 Satan had fallen from grace "in the beginning" which, since the serpent tempted Adam and Eve, had to have occurred before the Fall of man. Isaiah 14:12-15, Ezekiel 28:11-19, John 8:44 Space, time, water, and the rock which constitutes the main body of the earth, existed before the period of six days began in Genesis 1:3. (WikiPedia).

This is only a tiny beginning to the complete study of the truth of Gap Creationism. 'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing'. Please don't presume you have all knowledge and will never uncover more facts about existence.

January 15, 2013 at 7:56 a.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

Rickaroo wrote about the 'sun god' of Christianity. One of the major themes of Christianity is based on the admonition against idol worship. Rickaroo, Christianity would never advise worshiping the 'creation', Christianity admonishes to worship 'The Creator'.

Romans 1:22-25

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

25 Who changed the truth of God into a LIE, and WORSHIPED and SERVED the CREATURE MORE THAN the CREATOR, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Rickaroo, i certainly am 'not' calling You a fool. kwo

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a LIE, and WORSHIPED and SERVED the CREATURE MORE THAN the CREATOR, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

January 15, 2013 at 8:06 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Watch out everybody, here comes the holly rollin' snake-oil peddler.. aka "the tickle monster" aka "the tithe receiver".

Hide yo wallets, hide yo kids, hide yo pets!... and any farm animals as well..

January 15, 2013 at 8:07 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Orr,

It doesn't matter how you rationalize it. Your Bible is wrong and contradictory.

You have to make so many concessions just to believe what you do. Gap creationism is ridiculous. It's a creationists way of melding science and the Bible. Why not just take the Bible out of the equation? The Bible is your stumbling block. It halts all critical thinking. You have to make concessions because of your holy book. Any rational human being would understand that if the creator of the universe did, in fact, write a book, you wouldn't have to make thousands of concessions just to find a common ground with reality. Is your god ignorant or incompetent?

There is no study of Gap Creationism. It's just creationists that believe in a little science. That's all. The only knowledge about our existence and origin will come from science, not religion. Your holy book will not make any discoveries. According to the late, great Stephen Jay Gould, science and religion are non-overlappying magisteria. They do not coincide. Religion is not and never will be science.

January 15, 2013 at 8:10 a.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

Still no names, no credentials, no research, no proof from you.

BTW, what are doing to cause global warming?

January 15, 2013 at 8:22 a.m.
Easy123 said...

conservative,

Still being delusive? The proof has been provided.

You can do the research about the activities humans do that lead to global warming.

Still no proof of your god, Jesus, heaven, or the inerrancy of the Bible from you. "Get on with it".

January 15, 2013 at 8:26 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

conservative: still unable to click a link and read. Is it because it isn't short like a bible verse? Have a little attention span problem there? Or are you just a liar?

Since your response to science seems to entail sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "la la la I can't hear you!" this is not a surprise.

January 15, 2013 at 8:31 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Conny doesn't like anything that implies a quantifiable value.

Measurements involving numbers, lengths, sizes, volumes, etc. can be very scary to someone who bases their whole existence on the ever changing interpretations of stone age mythologies.

It is actually kinda sad, and even slightly comical to read this thread and see his inept scrambling desperation in attempting to avoid his own self perceived "kryptonite" of admittance to reality.

Even sadder and in no way comical, is this idea that understanding the world around you would be so scary in the first place.

January 15, 2013 at 8:53 a.m.
librul said...

An article for con-man to reflect upon ...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33612.htm

January 15, 2013 at 9:13 a.m.
dao1980 said...

I want conny to ask me what I'm doing to cause or prevent "global warming".

Please conny, ask me!

January 15, 2013 at 9:19 a.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

Still no names, no credentials, no research, no proof from you.

BTW, what are doing to cause global warming?

January 15, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.
Easy123 said...

conservative,

Still being delusive? The names, credentials, research and proof has been provided.

You can do the research about the human activities that lead to global warming.

Still no proof of your god, Jesus, heaven, or the inerrancy of the Bible from you. "Get on with it".

I encourage everyone to use this approach when dealing with conservative, especially Ikeithlu. He wants you to post a list because he thinks that gives him some kind of control over you. He thinks he "owns us". He's said it before. He'll copy and paste that same post over and over trying to get someone to bite. He's a weird little fellow.

January 15, 2013 at 10:36 a.m.
dao1980 said...

C'mon conny, man up, ask me about my influence (however minute) on the conditions of our global climate, and what I'm doing to take responsibility for it.

Or.. are you as much of an evil, slimy, dishonest, spineless, gutless sissy as everyone here thinks you are?

January 15, 2013 at 10:46 a.m.
Easy123 said...

dao,

Let me assure you, conservative won't do it. He doesn't address posters that he feels he is intellectually inferior to. He is targeting Ikeithlu because he feels like he can get one over on her.

Conservative is calculated. Very ignorant, illogical, scientifically illiterate, cowardly, deceitful and uneducated, but still calculated.

January 15, 2013 at 10:49 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

He doesn't bother me none. I can just choose not to answer to his trollish behavior. I can offer to answer if he answers this first: What about my link does he not agree with? I would like specifics: sources, numbers, stats, etc that he has access to that contradicts the consensus statements on the link I posted. I know he has the reading comprehension of a 5th grader, having never moved beyond the bible, and like Ken Orr, his background in the sciences is so weak he probably would not understand the articles even if he chose to read them.

After all, in spite of overwhelming evidence for evolution and an ancient earth, he still believes in the Garden of Eden, a talking snake, and the entire human population is descended from 8 people on a big wooden boat full of animals, including dinosaurs.

January 15, 2013 at 11:29 a.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

Still no names, no credentials, no research, no proof from you.

BTW, what are doing to cause global warming?

January 15, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.

January 15, 2013 at 1:17 p.m.
Easy123 said...

See what I mean? He'll copy and paste that same post all day.

January 15, 2013 at 1:19 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

yup. no sign that he has even checked out my link, which had everything he asked for. Liar for Jesus.

January 15, 2013 at 2:31 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike,

Still no names, no credentials, no research, no proof from you.

BTW, what are doing to cause global warming?

January 15, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.

January 15, 2013 at 1:17 p.m.

January 15, 2013 at 3:15 p.m.
dao1980 said...

Man up conny, you've been supplied with all of those things by multiple posters on multiple occasions.

Now quit being a lying lilly-livered yellow-tail double-dog sissy.

You aint sceeeerd are yee?

January 15, 2013 at 3:57 p.m.
Leaf said...

Dang, that was an intellectual beat-down. I almost feel sorry for conservative. Almost.

January 16, 2013 at 10:38 a.m.
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