published Thursday, July 11th, 2013

The Path

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

111
Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.
AndrewLohr said...

Ha.

Of course, if we hadn't murdered 40 million babies since '73, we might be shipping people to Mexico.

July 11, 2013 at 12:41 a.m.
fairmon said...

The fence may one day be used to keep those here in instead of others out. It is a complex issue with opinions shaped by a few situations people know about first hand. Those that have not been to the border and talked with the guards may not be qualified to comment or to vote on the bill. Those that haven't talked with ICE agents and the difficulty they deal with may not be qualified to comment or to vote on the bill. ICE has only about 5,000 agents (fewer than a large city police force) for the entire country but nothing in the bill that adds 20,000 border security personnel adds ICE agents. Another poorly written fast track bill with good intentions but poorly constructed failing to address some important enforcement issues. Who believes the new laws won't be selectively ignored and not enforced just as done with current laws. The illegal entry traffic is by no means limited to Hispanics. How many unrelated "riders" does the bill have?

July 11, 2013 at 1:49 a.m.
nucanuck said...

If Mexico's economy continues to surge and if the Mexican birth rate continues to fall, the US illegal immigration problem will solve itself. Right now the US is down to net zero growth in new illegal immigration. The outflow is canceling out the greatly reduced inflow numbers.

Maybe it really doesn't matter what Congress does or does not do. Congress seems to get more irrelevant every day that passes.

July 11, 2013 at 2:59 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Whatever Congress does, it will be cumbersome, unenforced, and full of pork.

July 11, 2013 at 5:39 a.m.
fairmon said...

nucanuck said....

Right now the US is down to net zero growth in new illegal immigration. The outflow is canceling out the greatly reduced inflow numbers.

Where does that data come from? The flow at the border is still pretty steady according to a recent documentary which did reveal more than Hispanics were crossing into the U.S. The Mexican drug cartels appear to be heavily involved in trafficking of people, some of them are their distributors.

July 11, 2013 at 6:18 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Where does that data come from?"

That statistic was widely reported late last year. Google the phrase "illegal immigration, net zero" and the list of articles spans several pages. Here's one;

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/01/2980208/jeb-bush-says-illegal-immigration.html

"The flow at the border is still pretty steady according to a recent documentary which did reveal more than Hispanics were crossing into the U.S. The Mexican drug cartels appear to be heavily involved in trafficking of people, some of them are their distributors."

Sir, opponents to immigration reform will write anything at all to convince people the illegal immigrants are the Devil incarnate.

The fact of the matter is that illegal immigrants are not finding jobs any easier than Americans are, and like the local raid at the Jackson Furniture Industries two weeks ago in Cleveland, where 245 illegal immigrants lost their jobs, most were not arrested, detained or deported, unless they have any options, most of them will likely make their way back South.

People love to blame President Obama for not being hard enough on illegal immigrants, yet how does on explain the fact that enforcement and deportations of undesirables is at an all-time high?

And again, you will not read that written by illegal immigrant and Obama haters.

As is always the case, the facts are out there. One just needs to run them down.

The more that the Republican leadership resists addressing the issue, the more they risk dissension among the ranks. The mid-term elections for many Republican candidates is just around the corner.

Already, cracks are appearing at the seams, based on public statements by some notable Republicans.

Of course, I'm hoping that the majority of Republicans stick to their guns and continue to wage their little war on women, Hispanics, and health care reform.

It will assure a Democrat majority in all three branches come next November.

July 11, 2013 at 6:52 a.m.
alprova said...

Senator Marco Rubio is falling out of favor with the Tea-Party Republicans. That's a good thing and his career will thrive in spite of it.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/10/in-hot-water-rubio-quickly-loses-presidential-appe/

July 11, 2013 at 6:58 a.m.
alprova said...

Some surprising and not so surprising quotes...

"This issue has been around far too long. A comprehensive approach is long overdue, and I'm confident that the president, myself, others can find the common ground to take care of this issue once and for all." - John Boehner

"If it were true that the primary reason that people (illegal immigrants) were coming here is to work, then the Democrat Party would be the ones building the fence on the border." - Rush Limbaugh

"It’s clear to me, if Republicans are going to have the opportunity to be in the majority, we clearly have to determine how we deal with minority and Latino voters." - Senator Jerry Moran (R-Kansas)

"Republicans should approach it as the party of Reagan and Bush -- the party that has historically been pro-immigration." - Grover Norquist

July 11, 2013 at 7:10 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

GOOD MORNING, CHATTANOOGA, WELCOME TO THE CHATTANOOGA TIMES ALPROVA MESSAGE BOARD

July 11, 2013 at 8:29 a.m.
alprova said...

joepulitzer wrote: WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

July 11, 2013 at 8:34 a.m.
Maximus said...

I am for the immigration bill. Under Obama The Welfare Pimp we have more people on welfare than workers in the private sector. A national disgrace! Obama has done just what he wanted to do....take away the pride of individual accomplishment and turned at least 50% of the country into "subjects" soft and dependent on guvment relief.

I had the roof on one of my warehouses replaced recently. A crew of ten men from Guatamala showed up early in the rain no less and had the roof completely stripped and replaced by noon. My cost, $750! No, let the illegals in. They outwork soft fat Americans and they will become my customers over time. Look at Major League Baseball. It is an international game allowing players from all over the world to compete or jobs. Competition and a drive for individual success still runs the world. Let them in and let them stay.....I will PROFIT from it.......YES!

July 11, 2013 at 9:07 a.m.
jesse said...

HEY JOE??

That AIN'T Alprova, He done went and told ya WENSDAY is the only week day he gets on here!! Busy makin them PESO"S the rest of the week! Maybe he's lettin EASY use his moniker since easy got BANNED!!

Actually "pulpit " would be more apt than "message board"!

July 11, 2013 at 9:15 a.m.
LaughingBoy said...

Can we get a Bennett toon on the DOJ aiding Zimmerman protesting?

July 11, 2013 at 10 a.m.
nucanuck said...

fairmon, the Pew Hispanic Research Center has lots of useful information that does not come with a political bias.

The hard economic truth seems to be that the ongoing transition to a computer dominated world has permanently reduced overall demand for human labor. That lack of demand translates into slowly falling purchasing power for all except the upper echelon. This phenomenon is occurring throughout the developed world as workers and unemployed workers can no longer spend and drive the economy as in the past.

Probable conclusion: we have more people than a complex industrial/commercial society can effectively employ.

Probable result: immigration, whether legal or illegal, will cease being such a thorny issue because we will not have the jobs as a lure.

July 11, 2013 at 10:06 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

LaughingBoy: You won't see any coverage of the corrupt DOJ in the MSM.

July 11, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.
chatt_man said...

Good morning Nuc,

I agree with you we may have less jobs available for the reasons you note, but I think Obama has found other ways to "lure' them here...with promises of entitlements, that began as human compassion. Oh, please allow me to clarify my opinion, they are certainly entitlements to Obama, they were human compassion before his time.

How many people really believe it will be 10 years for them to receive a green card? And, I'll ask an honest question that I admit I don't know... What does a green card give them that they wouldn't already have other than permanent residency?

July 11, 2013 at 10:32 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

At a press conference, Nancy Pelosi said "the Bible folks" have been very enthusiastic about immigration reform." nice comment from the former Speaker

July 11, 2013 at 11:18 a.m.
nucanuck said...

chatt_man, Luring immigrants here with entitlements has to be a fringe issue for immigrants. Most want to work and come for the jobs/money.

Entitlements are a problem for all in the US, rich and poor. Corporate entitlements take many forms and involve even more money than for the poor.

July 11, 2013 at 11:22 a.m.
chatt_man said...

I don't disagree with you about the corporate entitlements, and that most immigrants come for work. I also think our entitlements have evolved from compassion to a way of life for some. And that's sad, as it seems that would lessen one's ability to feel self worth and the satisfaction of achieving. Enjoy the pretty place up there. I think I've mentioned before that I have a cousin in British Columbia.

July 11, 2013 at 11:36 a.m.

It seems that if you want to go all out to defend the borders, which is the first order of business for the fed. government, and you want to crack down on illegal aliens then you're someone who is now labeled as not being pro immigration. It's all about getting the Mexican-American vote. Rubio proves that the Republican Party in it's current form is not much better than the Democrap Party. We have the laws in place, the lefty saturated government, at all levels, doesn't have the balls to do the right thing. It doesn't matter why illegal aliens come to this country, they broke in, period. Does it matter what the motives are of the criminal who breaks into your house? Hell no. The nuancing of issues that are black and white by the media and the left are destroying this country.

July 11, 2013 at 12:01 p.m.
Maximus said...

And they say its not about the money. Obama has appointed 18 of his top campaign contributors or bundlers to top ambassadorships Including plum assignments in Rome and London. With Barry its Not about social justice......its about the money. Glad Ive got mine $$$$$$$$$$$$:)

July 11, 2013 at 12:25 p.m.
acerigger said...

Maximus said...

"I am for the immigration bill. Under Obama The Welfare Pimp we have more people on welfare than workers in the private sector."

To learn a bit about how partisans create false political propaganda, take a few moments to study what’s behind this headline: “More People Getting Government Food than Actually Working.”

That claim — appearing on the conservative GOPUSA site — is far from true.

The number of adults “actually working” was just under 136 million in April, according to the most recent figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And the number of adults — and children — getting any form of federal food assistance was put at 101 million by a report from the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Inspector General.

In other words, the GOPUSA headline is off by 35 million people. It’s also a false apples-to-fruit-salad comparison and a fallacious dichotomy as well.

http://factcheck.org/2013/07/food-aid-foolery/#.Ud2l0BKDwdo.reddit

July 11, 2013 at 1:46 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Watching Zimmerman kangaroo court. If only George had the forethought to claim being a Muslim.

July 11, 2013 at 2:30 p.m.
LaughingBoy said...

The judge in the Zimmerman trial is a disgrace.

July 11, 2013 at 3:34 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

acerigger said...

To learn a bit about how partisans create false political propaganda, take a few moments to study what’s behind this headline: “More People Getting Government Food than Actually Working.”

That claim — appearing on the conservative GOPUSA site — is far from true.

The number of adults “actually working” was just under 136 million in April, according to the most recent figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And the number of adults — and children — getting any form of federal food assistance was put at 101 million by a report from the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Inspector General.

In other words, the GOPUSA headline is off by 35 million people. It’s also a false apples-to-fruit-salad comparison and a fallacious dichotomy as well.

http://factcheck.org/2013/07/food-aid-foolery/#.Ud2l0BKDwdo.reddit


There is a distinct probability that you and the factcheck web are being disingenuous about the article they reviewed.

The original article was not printed at the GOPUSA web site but at the CNS News site where the headline was:

101M Get Food Aid from Federal Gov’t; Outnumber Full-Time Private Sector Workers:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/101m-get-food-aid-federal-gov-t-outnumber-full-time-private-sector-workers#sthash.VUyJsOz2.dpuf

The factcheck site thought this article was misleading but had to admit that it was factually correct. So they obviously attacked it indirectly by finding the article referenced on the GOPUSA site where the writer there mis-wrote the headline as:

More People Getting Government Food than Actually Working

Although its article provided the same data as the CNS article.

So, yes you and they found an incorrect headline but not an incorrect story. It sure looks like you and factcheck are just as misleading in your evaluation of an article that you claim is misleading.

July 11, 2013 at 4:04 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!


Really?

July 11, 2013 at 4:06 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Good points, JonRoss. MSNBC would be a little conflicted, but would probably go with the gaydom.

July 11, 2013 at 4:07 p.m.
LaughingBoy said...

ESPN, too.

July 11, 2013 at 4:47 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

The fact of the matter is that illegal immigrants are not finding jobs any easier than Americans are, and like the local raid at the Jackson Furniture Industries two weeks ago in Cleveland, where 245 illegal immigrants lost their jobs, most were not arrested, detained or deported, unless they have any options, most of them will likely make their way back South. (I don’t think that is likely in that it would exclude them from any amnesty if passed)


(Although this article does not deal exclusively with illegals it does show that immigrants both legal and illegal are and have been finding jobs easier than Americans)

Most Job Growth Has Gone to New Immigrants

By Mark Krikorian

My colleagues Steve Camarota and Karen Zeigler report that two-thirds of what little job growth we’ve seen during President Obama’s term has gone to immigrant workers, primarily newly arrived legal immigrants. Specifically, in the third quarter of 2012, there were about 2 million more immigrants working than during the first quarter of 2009, compared with only about 1 million more native-born workers.

Here’s the key figure:

At a time when U-6 unemployment for young college grads is 13 percent (and over 30 percent for high school dropouts), it’d be nice if someone running for, say, president would at least broach the subject of having Congress reduce legal immigration from its current level of 1.1 million per year. Barring that, you’d think whoever is president would at least avoid gratuitously increasing immigrant job competition for Americans. And you’d be wrong:

Obama has offered amnesty to up to 2 million illegal aliens through his unconstitutional DREAM decree, with no corresponding cuts to legal immigration;

In auditing company personnel records for illegal workers, his administration has, as a matter of policy, refused to detain any illegal workers, ensuring that they can just go and find another (illegal) job; and

His Justice Department called on the Supreme Court to strike down Arizona’s 2007 law requiring use of E-Verify by all employers in the state (this is a different law from the 2010 measure that prompted so much leftist outrage).

Hilariously, the open-borders Cato Institute’s Alex Nowrasteh told Stephen Dinan of the Washington Times that the report is “making a mountain out of a molehill.” Tell that to the 23 million Americans who are unemployed, forced to settle for part-time work, or gave up looking for work altogether.

July 11, 2013 at 5:25 p.m.
acerigger said...

need more? from the same article, "rather than admonish the Obama administration for resisting an opportunity to reduce deficits by streamlining possibly duplicative food-aid programs, some partisan sites are making false comparisons between workers and food-aid beneficiaries.

For example, the GOPUSA item is actually a recycling of an earlier item posted by CNSNews.com, another conservative site. The headline: “101M Get Food Aid from Federal Gov’t; Outnumber Full-Time Private Sector Workers”

The CNS item is a bit closer to being accurate, but misleads and exaggerates in multiple ways."

JT,you should really click on the link provided,read the entire article,then get back to me.

July 11, 2013 at 5:35 p.m.
fairmon said...

nucanuck said... fairmon, the Pew Hispanic Research Center has lots of useful information that does not come with a political bias.

I prefer my boots on the ground at the border source over the Miami Herald, Jeb Bush and pew research center. The term net zero doesn't mean the in flow is zero. It is like telling a fat person they don't look fatter since you last saw them.

July 11, 2013 at 5:57 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

acerigger said...

need more? from the same article, "rather than admonish the Obama administration for resisting an opportunity to reduce deficits by streamlining possibly duplicative food-aid programs, some partisan sites are making false comparisons between workers and food-aid beneficiaries.

For example, the GOPUSA item is actually a recycling of an earlier item posted byCNSNews.com, another conservative site. The headline: “101M Get Food Aid from Federal Gov’t; Outnumber Full-Time Private Sector Workers”

The CNS item is a bit closer to being accurate, but misleads and exaggerates in multiple ways." JT,you should really click on the link provided,read the entire article,then get back to me.


I had already read the article as well as the other two articles that it referenced. I have already said I do not accept the premise or the conclusions of your link so posting further of their misinformation is useless.

The only thing that they were able to declare as untrue was the the mis-stated headline of the GOPUSA article. They ranted on and on about their opinion that the articles were misleading but this is just their subjective reasoning and they produced no additional untruths.

Perhaps you should not assume when you have such little or no reason to do so. That’s what got you on the wrong path concerning this subject.

July 11, 2013 at 6:39 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "That AIN'T Alprova, He done went and told ya WENSDAY is the only week day he gets on here!!"

I've never written any such thing. I have two days off per week. Those two days are Wednesdays and Sundays. The rest of the week I rarely have time to post between 10:00am and 6:00pm.

"Busy makin them PESO"S the rest of the week!"

I do alright...

"Maybe he's lettin EASY use his moniker since easy got BANNED!!"

Easy wasn't banned. He just preferred not to pay for access.

"Actually "pulpit " would be more apt than "message board"!"

Sir...I rarely attempt to preach to anyone, but I have been guilty of it from time to time.

July 11, 2013 at 6:58 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "I prefer my boots on the ground at the border source over the Miami Herald, Jeb Bush and pew research center. The term net zero doesn't mean the in flow is zero. It is like telling a fat person they don't look fatter since you last saw them."

Believe whatever you wish. The facts mean little to many people.

NET zero means that there are as many illegal immigrants flowing back across the border as there are those coming in.

Border control agents don't like their jobs very much. I believe they would rather shoot a few Hispanics to make their jobs a little more exciting.

July 11, 2013 at 7:07 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

kidding with last sentence, alpo?

July 11, 2013 at 7:23 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

PlainTruth said...

kidding with last sentence, alpo?


No Alprova lets the mask slip ever now and then and reveals what a true believer Liberal/Progressive really looks like.

July 11, 2013 at 7:42 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

Believe whatever you wish. The facts mean little to many people.

Back at you...some do assume their sources are the most reliable and look for sources that support what they already believe to be true. How many border agents have you talked to? BTW the person I got the information from is not an agent but has spent time with them and has personally patrolled the border with them, I think he knows what is going on.

I have no problem with assisting those here with a job and working to being able to make it legal. I do think there needs to be a much better border defense both ways, going and coming. I do think there needs to be a major revamp of the ICE organization in a way that not only polices for adherence to the law but that also assist those trying to navigate a new process. Guest workers tend to disappear if they are no longer needed on the job they were filling as a guest. What would be your remedy?

July 11, 2013 at 7:44 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I think we should tighten up the northern border. See Beebs.

July 11, 2013 at 7:50 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

IF THE HEAD IS SPLIT, YOU MUST ACQUIT.

July 11, 2013 at 9:06 p.m.
degage said...

Al, you make it well known you believe anything the progressive movement tells you. You believe Obama and his cronies to extent of stupid. The lies coming out of this administration is beyond reason and you suck it all in like a leach. Do you really believe Obama's cronies like Axelrod and Gibbs had nothing to do with the IRS scam? We know Schumer and Franken did.

July 11, 2013 at 9:12 p.m.
rick1 said...

The Department of Justice played a major behind-the-scenes role in organizing protests against George Zimmerman. Now Obama wants to distance itself from the trail.

Obama and Holder are the ones who lit the fuse on making this a racial incident and now there is a very good possibly there maybe riots if Zimmerman goes free, and this will be on Obama and Holder. Notice you haven't heard Obama call for clam if the verdict is not guilty? Of course not Obama is Community Organizer who loves to cause racial tensions.

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/07/10/newly-released-documents-detail-the-department-of-justices-role-in-organizing-trayvon-martin-protests/

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/11/white-house-distances-itself-from-trayvon-martin-case-obamas-previous-comments/

July 11, 2013 at 9:22 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Just another example of the dysfunctional Justice Dept.

July 11, 2013 at 9:31 p.m.
rick1 said...

PT, this just shows you the real Obama. He will use race and put innocent peoples lives in danger by fanning the racial flames. Don't forget the couple whose last name was Zimmerman and their address was put on a social media site as being the home address of George Zimmerman when in fact they were not even related to George Zimmerman and they received death threats.

Look how the main stream media is following the Obama lead of constantly playing the race card.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/07/president_obama_vs_george_zimmerman_america_loses.html

July 11, 2013 at 9:45 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Yep

July 11, 2013 at 9:50 p.m.
degage said...

Do any of you think maybe the ladies may be afraid for their lives if they find Zimmerman not guilty. They will find him guilty of something. the prosecution really went for a stretch when they wanted child abuse because Trayvon was only 17. Common sense tells you Zimmerman had no idea he was under the age of 18. I understand what some of you really want cause it makes the racial divide more prevalent and that makes you happy.

If George Zimmerman had been the one laying dead nothing would have come of it. like none of the mob black teens beating white people in retaliation for Trayvon have been up front in the MSM. The elderly couple in Indiana beaten by the teens was not front page worthy. Wonder if they have been brought to justice, we will never know.

July 11, 2013 at 9:54 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Dems heart racial divide. Fact.

July 11, 2013 at 10:01 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "The Department of Justice played a major behind-the-scenes role in organizing protests against George Zimmerman. Now Obama wants to distance itself from the trail."

The Community Relations Service did EXACTLY what it was created to do in 1964, to be dispatched in cases where community conflicts and tensions arise from differences of race, color, and national origin.

You and others believe they were there to protest Zimmerman, but the fact is they were there to work with local authorities and protesters to resolve racial and ethnic tensions, incidents, and civil disorders, to help restore racial stability and harmony.

"Obama and Holder are the ones who lit the fuse on making this a racial incident and now there is a very good possibly there maybe riots if Zimmerman goes free, and this will be on Obama and Holder."

But of course, because they are both black, they are totally guilty of instigating what happened in the weeks following the shooting of Trayvon Martin, when blacks and whites, mainly in the Sanford area, were protesting for George Zimmerman's arrest.

"Notice you haven't heard Obama call for clam if the verdict is not guilty? Of course not Obama is Community Organizer who loves to cause racial tensions."

Everything is a conspiracy. If Obama speaks, he is guilty. If He refuses to speak, he is guilty.

You people never quit.

Zimmerman will be convicted of manslaughter, and rightfully so.

July 11, 2013 at 11:13 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Al, you make it well known you believe anything the progressive movement tells you."

Sir, with all due respect, nobody tells me what to believe.

"You believe Obama and his cronies to extent of stupid."

Actually, I have opined very little about any of the Presidents, so called "cronies."

"The lies coming out of this administration is beyond reason and you suck it all in like a leach."

What I allegedly "suck in" is no worse or no different than the same thing you right-wingers do when you happen to support a candidate of YOUR choice.

"Do you really believe Obama's cronies like Axelrod and Gibbs had nothing to do with the IRS scam?"

Haven't you been sent the memo? The IRS "scam" is pretty much toast and hasn't gone anywhere. No one has been touched with so much as one criminal charge.

July 11, 2013 at 11:19 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Back at you...some do assume their sources are the most reliable and look for sources that support what they already believe to be true."

I pointed you to the proof that immigration has been net-zero for quite a few years now, and you have decided that it is all bunk. You're entitled to believe whatever you wish, but as is always the case, you are not entitled to your own facts.

"How many border agents have you talked to? BTW the person I got the information from is not an agent but has spent time with them and has personally patrolled the border with them, I think he knows what is going on."

Aw jeez...One man can see the entire picture from "personally patrolling a small section of the border," eh?

"I have no problem with assisting those here with a job and working to being able to make it legal. I do think there needs to be a much better border defense both ways, going and coming."

A daunting task, in light of the money it will take to accomplish it.

"I do think there needs to be a major revamp of the ICE organization in a way that not only polices for adherence to the law but that also assist those trying to navigate a new process."

Well don't look for any increase in deportations, because that is the most expensive proposition on the table. $20,000 a pop to process a deportee.

"Guest workers tend to disappear if they are no longer needed on the job they were filling as a guest. What would be your remedy?"

Slap a Social Security number on their backs, start taxing them, and make them productive U.S. Citizens, if they so desire to be one. The nation needs them and the tax revenue that would be generated as a result of it.

July 11, 2013 at 11:29 p.m.
Maximus said...

Acrigger...like most Democrats you must be on relief and have no pride or balls. Your boy, Obama has divided the country into the have nots, which the Dems control and the haves, like me, that are actually getting richer via Obama policies. The stock market did awesome today. Thanks Barry. Too bad, for most of his supporters, life centers around going to Wal-Mart (I own a LOT of this stock) EBT card in hand while talking to their pot dealer on their Obamaphone. Good job Obama, you have been soooooo wondeRful for our country. Mediocrity for all except for the ruling class and a few A listers. As for me, city, state, and federal government......JUST ANOTHER CUSTOMER! $$$$$$$$$$$:)

July 11, 2013 at 11:30 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "IF THE HEAD IS SPLIT, YOU MUST ACQUIT."

That right there is one problem with George Zimmerman's story.

His head was barely scratched.

July 11, 2013 at 11:31 p.m.
Maximus said...

How about Obama and the NSA bribing Justice John Roberts to support the UnAffordable Care Act? Breaking news soon from Mr. Snowden. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? I heard they had some shall we say questionable data on Roberts. Hookers involved............:)

Obama not a king, just a naked opportunist!

July 11, 2013 at 11:35 p.m.
Maximus said...

Alprova, you must be on relief, because you sure as hell have no job! Wow....you are obssessed with supporting your life partner Clay Bennett. Are ya'll married? Who is the man, I would guess that you play the female role. Ewwwwwwww!

July 11, 2013 at 11:37 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^^ now that's funny right there

July 11, 2013 at 11:43 p.m.
alprova said...

Maximyth, just a reminder that you are nothing you have ever claimed to be in this forum;

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/jun/20/evidence-room-cartoon-clay-bennett-times/?opinioncartoons#c234519

July 11, 2013 at 11:45 p.m.
acerigger said...

I DFTT,LOL!

July 11, 2013 at 11:52 p.m.
alprova said...

"Alprova, you must be on relief, because you sure as hell have no job!"

The invitation is still open. Anytime you want to learn who and what I am, and if you have the desire to prove any of your claims, drop me an email and we'll definitely have a meeting of the minds.

I am most willing to prove to your satisfaction who and what I am.

You're a pathological lying moron who hides behind a computer and you refuse to prove me incorrect.

July 11, 2013 at 11:56 p.m.
Maximus said...

Sooooooo, you are Clay's corn hole partner and lover...well Alprova how lovely. And about the job, oh right you are holding out for a management position in the Obama administration. Uhh, i think there are openings at the IRS but they won't hire CPA's that have bounced checks! OMG!

Leaving for the islands tomorrow AM. See ya Democrat moocher, baby killing, losers. Made a killing today in the market...thanks Barry.

July 11, 2013 at 11:59 p.m.
Maximus said...

Mexicans murder blacks every day in America and vice versa, but George Zimmerman labeled a white hispanic by the NY times, his case, which by the way is a self defense case, is national news...why....your Divider, your Race Baiter..........yes.....your Cheap Two Bit Union Community Organizer...........Barry Obama stirred the pot and Mr. Zimmerman, who again had a legal carry permit, defended himself in a fight with his legal gun....but Barry had to get involved and Zimmerman will go to jail as an innocent man. No question. I knew he was toast when they said they had a discriminatory all female jury. How did the defense attorneys ever allow that? Wow!

July 12, 2013 at 12:06 a.m.
fairmon said...

"Guest workers tend to disappear if they are no longer needed on the job they were filling as a guest. What would be your remedy?"

alprova responded....

Slap a Social Security number on their backs, start taxing them, and make them productive U.S. Citizens, if they so desire to be one. The nation needs them and the tax revenue that would be generated as a result of it.

No problem with the first sentence. But, when the job ends they often disappear and remain here illegally. The second sentence is a joke. We are at a non participating worker rate of over 17% and don't give me that Americans won't do the work crap. What revenue? Most would be among those paying zero taxes, I don't know if they would receive earned income credit refunds.

alprova said....

Aw jeez...One man can see the entire picture from "personally patrolling a small section of the border," eh?

It was several weeks and very thorough. Regardless I am sure he got a better view than the pew pencil pushers behind their desk. Where does Jeb Bush get his information making him a reliable source? Does Florida have a special connection with those on the Mexican border? We don't know who they are, where they are and who is legal and who is illegal but we are sure the number is staying the same? You have got to be kidding, talk about creating your own facts, that is darn close to it.

July 12, 2013 at 12:58 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

alprova said...Well don't look for any increase in deportations, because that is the most expensive proposition on the table. $20,000 a pop to process a deportee.

I don't think you will find where I said deport all illegal immigrants. Of course it is expensive, anything the government does cost from 2X to 4X what it should.

July 12, 2013 at 1:04 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "We are at a non participating worker rate of over 17% and don't give me that Americans won't do the work crap."

Where does that figure come from? "17% non participating worker rate?" What 17% and what workers are you referring to?

And it is a fact that most, if not all Americans are not even interested in seeking jobs working in agriculture, as well as other types of work that illegals do very well and quite willingly.

Most Americans feel they are too good to do hard labor, at any price.

"What revenue? Most would be among those paying zero taxes, I don't know if they would receive earned income credit refunds."

Sir, many, if not most illegals are paying taxes now. They do not file for refunds. degage will pipe up with his usual response that they claim enough dependents that they zero out on deductions, and I'm sure there are some who do this, but employers know that the more people making such claims will result in a visit by the authorities to run them through e-verify.

"It was several weeks and very thorough. Regardless I am sure he got a better view than the pew pencil pushers behind their desk."

Wow!! Now it was only for a few weeks. That's a plethora of knowledge of illegal immigration throughout the entire nation, isn't it?

"Where does Jeb Bush get his information making him a reliable source? Does Florida have a special connection with those on the Mexican border?"

I told you to Google "illegal immigration, net-zero." The source of that information can be read in pages of links that come up.

The article I linked to cites those sources.

"We don't know who they are, where they are and who is legal and who is illegal but we are sure the number is staying the same?"

I think the Government knows where most illegals are in this nation. And as I have pointed out many times, the reason that more is not done about it, is due to the fact that they do generate a great deal of tax revenue today.

"You have got to be kidding, talk about creating your own facts, that is darn close to it."

Okay...you believe your "several week, ride-along informant" as the authority on the issue of illegal immigration.

I'll defer to the Pew Hispanic Center, a widely respected, non-partisan institution who has never been accused of fudging data that it puts out.

July 12, 2013 at 1:57 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "I don't think you will find where I said deport all illegal immigrants. Of course it is expensive, anything the government does cost from 2X to 4X what it should."

We have a system of justice in this country, and even an illegal immigrant deserves to be processed through the system before being deported.

I'm sure some would like to believe that deportation should only consist of transportation to the border on a Greyhound bus, but it's just a wee bit more complicated than that.

Because Americans are not having children in numbers like they did in the past, we have a viable need for young, ready-made, tax-paying citizens. Baby Boomers are set to retire in increasing numbers over the next couple of decades.

Slap a Social Security number on their backs, tax 'em, and they will gladly help prop up many of the social programs for decades.

It's a shame that only a few Republicans have even broached the subject, given their propensity to embrace anything that has a positive effect on spending and budgeting. Rand Paul is one of them. It's one of the rare things that he has publicly stated that I agree with.

July 12, 2013 at 2:06 a.m.
degage said...

Al, Will you please quit using, him his and sir, when you address something I have said. I finally got thru to Easy on my gender, thought you may have picked up on it. Guess not, then again maybe you just weren't paying attention.

July 12, 2013 at 6:22 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...Sir, many, if not most illegals are paying taxes now. They do not file for refunds

How does that fit with your contention that revenue would increase since most would be in the zero taxes category and get a refund?

alprova said...

We have a system of justice in this country, and even an illegal immigrant deserves to be processed through the system before being deported.

I did not say deport all of them, only those unable to get a job and be self sufficient. Those who have guest worker permits are supposed to leave when the job or the permit ends. There is not supposed to be any deportation expense. Processing through any government system is overly complicated and expensive.

The jobs illegals do are not primarily migrant farm workers. Most of those are handled very well by the system and return when the season is over. Could it be that healthy and able Americans won't do the construction, factory and other work because other Americans are forced by the tax system to provide them clothing, food, shelter and health care? The money used for those takers could go to the elderly, the young, the mentally and physically disabled.

July 12, 2013 at 6:30 a.m.
fairmon said...

alpo opines that...

Because Americans are not having children in numbers like they did in the past, we have a viable need for young, ready-made, tax-paying citizens. Baby Boomers are set to retire in increasing numbers over the next couple of decades.

Not needed until every American able to work has a job.

July 12, 2013 at 6:34 a.m.
fairmon said...

alpo ask...

Where does that figure come from? "17% non participating worker rate?" What 17% and what workers are you referring to?

Actually the real unemployed number is down to around 14%. Included are the over 500,000 dropped out of the job pool and gave up on finding a job. So, the unemployment number was lower but will go back up if they re-enter the pool. The participation rate of eligible workers over the age of 16 is at a 30 year low at 63.3%. The workers needed and that will be needed are in the high tech and specialized fields not in the lower skilled jobs most immigrants would fill or seek.

July 12, 2013 at 7:06 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

alkarma: That right there is one problem with George Zimmerman's story.

His head was barely scratched.

SPECIAL DELIVERY TO: alkarma, Cartoon Message Board Organizer Chattanooga Times Free Press 400 E. 11th St., Chatta., TN 37401

http://gothamist.com/2012/04/20/new_photo_shows_george_zimmermans_h.php

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242479/New-color-photo-shows-George-Zimmermans-bloody-nose-night-killed-Trayvon-Martin.html

Please sign your X here .......

July 12, 2013 at 7:25 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Max said to ALPO: "Uhh, i think there are openings at the IRS but they won't hire CPA's that have bounced checks! OMG!"

I have serious doubts that ALPO is a CPA.

July 12, 2013 at 7:27 a.m.
rick1 said...

Al if you would have read the link I provided there are documents obtained by Judicial Watch showing CRS was not engaging in its stated mission of conducting “impartial mediation practices and conflict resolution,” but instead engaged on the side of the anti-Zimmerman protesters.

Al, you are so blinded by your love of Obama, you are too STUPID to see what the CRS did was out of the play book from Obama's Community Organizer days. Obama lit the fuse and stood in front of the tv cameras and said if he had a son he would look like Trayvon. There was no reason to make that comment unless he wanted to stroke up anger which he did and it was a irresponsible and reckless comment to make. But I shouldn't be surprise that you see nothing wrong with Obama saying this since you have shown your true colors by your disgusting comment about Boarder Control Agents.

"Border control agents don't like their jobs very much. I believe they would rather shoot a few Hispanics to make their jobs a little more exciting." July 11, 2013 at 7:07 p.m.

There is no proof of this you are a liar. Those would be your words if someone made a comment like this about Obama.

July 12, 2013 at 7:30 a.m.
rick1 said...

Degage, Al knows you are a female I believe he even apologize in the past because he referred to you as a male and you corrected him.

July 12, 2013 at 7:33 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said ...

People love to blame President Obama for not being hard enough on illegal immigrants, yet how does on explain the fact that enforcement and deportations of undesirables is at an all-time high? And again, you will not read that written by illegal immigrant and Obama haters.

As is always the case, the facts are out there. One just needs to run them down. (Really?)


I think Obama has been cooking the books. In a change from the norm his administration has started counting those illegals that are simply turned back when apprehended at the border. That little accounting trick has allowed him to claim removal of illegals are at an all time high and it is not true when comparing how they were counted before.

July 12, 2013 at 7:37 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

PlainTruth said...

I have serious doubts that ALPO is a CPA.


He has proven himself to be math challenged several times in the past.

July 12, 2013 at 7:41 a.m.
alprova said...

degage "Al, Will you please quit using, him his and sir, when you address something I have said. I finally got thru to Easy on my gender, thought you may have picked up on it. Guess not, then again maybe you just weren't paying attention."

I was not aware that you are a female. Now that I am aware of it, I promise I will address you properly.

I probably missed that because I didn't often pay attention to Easy's arguments with others.

Please accept my apology.

July 12, 2013 at 7:43 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

You're a pathological lying moron who hides behind a computer and you refuse to prove me incorrect.


As always ... keeping it classy

July 12, 2013 at 7:47 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

ALPO said "I probably missed that because I didn't often pay attention to Easy's arguments with others." What a load of it. ALPO and EASY were BFF's on this forum

July 12, 2013 at 7:47 a.m.
degage said...

JT, al calling a person on here a pathological lying moron smacks of Easy's rants when challenged.

Al, apology accepted.

July 12, 2013 at 7:55 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "How does that fit with your contention that revenue would increase since most would be in the zero taxes category and get a refund?"

Because most do not zero out. Most all of them pay Social Security and Medicare taxes, and most pay income taxes, state income taxes, because employers fearful of being subjected to visits by the authorities, and a boatload of employees who claim multiple deductions will garner them lots of attention.

"The jobs illegals do are not primarily migrant farm workers."

It depends on the state they are located in.

"Could it be that healthy and able Americans won't do the construction, factory and other work because other Americans are forced by the tax system to provide them clothing, food, shelter and health care?"

I'm having trouble following you. What exactly are you attempting to say? That healthy and able Americans are not working and are instead loafing all day and being supported by the Gov't?

If so, what percentage of those healthy and able to work do you believe are getting away with doing that?

"The money used for those takers could go to the elderly, the young, the mentally and physically disabled."

You and I agree that if one is able to work, that they should be working, however, where is the evidence that there is a widespread problem in this nation of healthy and able people not working?

July 12, 2013 at 8 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Not needed until every American able to work has a job."

Even in this economy, with the possible exception of some pockets located around the country, there are jobs available to anyone who desires to work.

I know that there exists people who were at one time not willing to take less desirable jobs, but the free rides for those is over, to the best of my knowledge and most have had to take some form of employment, because anyone who has been on unemployment for a couple of years has more problems than not being able to find a job. They don't want or need a job to survive.

July 12, 2013 at 8:06 a.m.
jesse said...

I think ,in the case of maximus Al's evaluation is spot on!!

After the mass exodus of the trash talkers a few weeks ago max is about the only dirtbag left on here!

July 12, 2013 at 8:12 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Actually the real unemployed number is down to around 14%. Included are the over 500,000 dropped out of the job pool and gave up on finding a job."

If there are people who "gave up" looking for a job, they did not necessarily need one to start with. That claim has always included students, those who have taken early retirement, women who have decided to become homemakers, etc.

The streets are not filled with people who have been unemployed so long that they have lost everything and have become homeless.

"So, the unemployment number was lower but will go back up if they re-enter the pool. The participation rate of eligible workers over the age of 16 is at a 30 year low at 63.3%."

I have no doubt that it is tough for a 16 year old to find those summer jobs, but then, that is a perfect example of those who do not NEED a job.

"The workers needed and that will be needed are in the high tech and specialized fields not in the lower skilled jobs most immigrants would fill or seek."

Which is why schools across the country are busting at the seams, spitting out graduates right and left, who are all clamoring for those jobs.

July 12, 2013 at 8:14 a.m.
workinjay said...

Jesse,

Alprova said, "Easy wasn't banned. He just preferred not to pay for access."

I wonder how Alprova knew that about Easy? Either Easy is the avatar he uses as his alter ego, or Easy is his stool pushing buddy.

July 12, 2013 at 8:17 a.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "I have serious doubts that ALPO is a CPA."

And of course, given the level of your participation in this forum, your written thoughts indicate that you don't have a great deal going on upstairs, don't they?

What you happen to believe or doubt does not bother me for so much as a second.

So you just keep on trollin'

July 12, 2013 at 8:20 a.m.
jesse said...

Easy left BEFORE the payup went into effect!

I think he finally wore out his welcome and got barred!

July 12, 2013 at 8:27 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

ALPO: no response to what I posted?

July 12, 2013 at 8:30 a.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Al if you would have read the link I provided there are documents obtained by Judicial Watch showing CRS was not engaging in its stated mission of conducting “impartial mediation practices and conflict resolution,” but instead engaged on the side of the anti-Zimmerman protesters."

B.S.

The only thing outlined in that article was a digest of the expenses claimed by those who went down there.

When you can point out a photo anywhere of a Justice Department employee holding a protest sign calling for Zimmerman's arrest, get back to me.

"Al, you are so blinded by your love of Obama, you are too STUPID to see what the CRS did was out of the play book from Obama's Community Organizer days."

And you are so blinded by your hate for the President, that you will believe anything that is written, if it even suggests that he was involved in anything you happen to disagree with.

"Obama lit the fuse and stood in front of the tv cameras and said if he had a son he would look like Trayvon. There was no reason to make that comment unless he wanted to stroke up anger which he did and it was a irresponsible and reckless comment to make."

Newsflash!!! The President is a U.S. citizen just like you are, and is allowed to offer his opinion about anything under the Sun, just like you are.

George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin just as assuredly as you and I are debating it. I hope he goes away for many years to think about what he did that night, and how he has lied to try to get away with it.

"But I shouldn't be surprise that you see nothing wrong with Obama saying this since you have shown your true colors by your disgusting comment about Boarder Control Agents."

Clearly, one would not seek such a job if they had no anti-Hispanic agenda, and given their union's objection to immigration reform, I just offered my opinion to carry it to a logical extreme.

My only mistake was to not insert the word..."some", to eliminate those agents who might have a heart for those who come here in total desperation.

"There is no proof of this you are a liar. Those would be your words if someone made a comment like this about Obama."

Oh there is evidence that a few agents have been trigger happy at times. I can remember one notable International incident where one agent shot an unarmed young boy who was on his side of the border, for throwing a rock at him.

July 12, 2013 at 8:43 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo: Hmmm?

July 12, 2013 at 8:47 a.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "Easy left BEFORE the payup went into effect!"

Could be. He's disappeared for weeks at a time in the past.

"I think he finally wore out his welcome and got barred!"

The TFP removes all the old posts of those who are banned. His are still there.

July 12, 2013 at 8:55 a.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "ALPO: no response to what I posted? Alpo: Hmmm?"

I go out of my way NOT to respond to anything you post.

The fact of the matter is that I know nothing about Easy, any more than you do. You and I have had a couple of private email exchanges, and that is more than I ever had with him. I don't know the guy.

I don't care to read vile arguments and exchanges that usually were a part of the posts he offered and returned by others who engaged with him.

Now, if you want to believe something else, by all means, knock yourself out. My life will not be affected by it.

July 12, 2013 at 9:02 a.m.
jesse said...

Al said "clearly one would not seek the job if they had no anti Hispanic agenda"!!

That has to be one of the most asinine statements you ever made Al!

The Border Patrol in one of the most professional law enforcement Agency's in the world! Back in the 60's and 70's i met a lot of them at various pistol matches around the country and they and the Secret Service were a cut above! Bill Jordan and Bill Hilden just to name two!(might want to google these two!)

July 12, 2013 at 9:21 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

ALPY: I'm talking about the CPA bidness...don't misdirect like a politician. Hmmm?

July 12, 2013 at 9:27 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

alpo...I see no answer to my query.

July 12, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

People who make bank from groups not getting along are praying for riots after Zimmerman trial. That would be the Democrat Party

July 12, 2013 at 3:42 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al posted "Clearly, one would not seek such a job if they had no anti-Hispanic agenda, and given their union's objection to immigration reform, I just offered my opinion to carry it to a logical extreme."

Then Al posted "My only mistake was to not insert the word..."some", to eliminate those agents who might have a heart for those who come here in total desperation."

Typical of you to talk out of both sides of your mouth when you get called out.

Al posted, "Newsflash!!! The President is a U.S. citizen just like you are, and is allowed to offer his opinion about anything under the Sun, just like you are."

And since he is The President he should watch what he says since his words do carry a lot of weight and do influence people. Obama knew what he was doing when he made the comment and he was looking to fire up the racial agenda. Obama is still operating in his Community Antagonizer mode instead of acting presidential.

July 12, 2013 at 6:55 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "alpo...I see no answer to my query."

You expressed no query. You expressed doubt.

I can't help you with that. Doubt all you want.

July 12, 2013 at 7:35 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Typical of you to talk out of both sides of your mouth when you get called out"

I really hate to nit pick, but I haven't "said" a word.

"And since he is The President he should watch what he says since his words do carry a lot of weight and do influence people."

Hey...drop him a line. I'm sure he will take it under advisement.

"Obama knew what he was doing when he made the comment and he was looking to fire up the racial agenda. Obama is still operating in his Community Antagonizer mode instead of acting presidential."

When you are elected President, you be sure to set a good example and show him how to do it right.

July 12, 2013 at 7:39 p.m.
fairmon said...

ALPROVA....your comments about border patrol agents are totally inappropriate and says a lot about you and your personal values.

The eligible workers participation rate is down to 63% which includes all eligible for employment up to retirement age. U-6 unemployment is around 14% and you insist we need more immigrants? not yet.

If they now pay taxes including social security but out of fear don't file for a refund and are not eligible for social security why screw that up and have them get refunds and social security benefits? It appears based on what you say having them be legal would reduce revenue and increase spending.

July 12, 2013 at 7:55 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo: Are you a CPA? Or even a PA?

July 12, 2013 at 8:11 p.m.
rick1 said...

Fairmon and PT, thought both of you might find this article interesting. CBO says ObamaCare will now add to deficits In first 10 Years

http://news.investors.com/071213-663449-obamacare-boosts-deficit-in-first-decade.htm?p=full

July 12, 2013 at 8:30 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Rick: How could that be? He promised.

July 12, 2013 at 8:37 p.m.
rick1 said...

PT, it's Bush fault.

July 12, 2013 at 8:40 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Guards confiscate feces and used tampons from pro abortion crowd in TX. classy

July 12, 2013 at 8:49 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Brilliant article from Newsweek. Not exactly a bastion of conservatism. http://www.tomtayloronline.org/2013/07/08/i-too-have-become-disillusioned-matt-patterson-newsweek/

July 12, 2013 at 9:36 p.m.
please login to post a comment

videos »         

photos »         

e-edition »

advertisement
advertisement

Find a Business

400 East 11th St., Chattanooga, TN 37403
General Information (423) 756-6900
Copyright, Permissions, Terms & Conditions, Privacy Policy, Ethics policy - Copyright ©2014, Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc. All rights reserved.
This document may not be reprinted without the express written permission of Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc.