published Wednesday, June 12th, 2013

The Dreamer

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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conservative said...

Mr. Bennett had about as much success selling that pay equity scam as did the makers of that coin. Back to the drawer.

June 12, 2013 at 6:39 a.m.
alprova said...

Conservative, nobody and I do mean nobody, oinks any better than you.

June 12, 2013 at 7:15 a.m.
jesse said...

C'mon Al even you gotta admit this is pretty lame!!

June 12, 2013 at 7:22 a.m.
conservative said...

Good morning alprova,

Especially for you:

Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised. Proverbs31:30

June 12, 2013 at 7:28 a.m.
EaTn said...

I personally know more than one illegal brought to this country as kids, educated here and working in respectable jobs, but always looking over their shoulder fearing deportation to a country they hardly know. To send them back would be inhumane.

June 12, 2013 at 8:12 a.m.
alprova said...

Jesse, there's nothing lame about this cartoon at all.

Is it not a fact that Tea-Partiers are leading the charge against immigration reform?

Republicans are not going to advance as a political party, not to mention begin winning important elections, until they force those with extreme right-wing views to form their own separate political party.

What more proof does one need to that fundamental truth, than what can be read in the news over the past few days regarding how Edward Snowden is being viewed for what he has done?

With very little exception, the Democrat Party is quite unified. The Republican Party is all over the place and the infighting is becoming ridiculous and more pronounced.

Trust me, I care not one whit if the Republicans continue to find themselves on the wrong side of any issue. It's what they do best lately.

By continuing to charge ahead with agendas that they dishonestly decided to hide from the American people who voted for them, is going to haunt them next year.

Poll after poll has proven that the more they attempt to beat up Obama, the more their approval numbers slither along the ground, with the exception of their core supporters, and trust me, there aren't enough Republican core supporters to fill those Congressional seats with Republicans.

Hispanics are keenly aware that the formerly newfound desire to court their votes has been a rouse all along. Marco Rubio, a darling Hispanic Republican who once had hope to become President, helped craft an immigration reform bill that he now claims he will not vote for if it comes to the floor as it is.

Is there anyone who would view that kind of waffling, especially when he had a direct hand in crafting the legislation in question, as good leadership?

I can't help but find some enjoyment in witnessing Republican after Republican flush their future careers down the toilet. It couldn't happen to a better group of non-productive politicians.

June 12, 2013 at 8:27 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Same old lame commenters commenting on the same old lame crap. Glad I check this once a month to make sure the lame-os, including Toon Boy, are still around.

June 12, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.
alprova said...

whatsnottaken wrote: "Glad I check this once a month to make sure the lame-os, including Toon Boy, are still around."

Why would you post such a provable misrepresentation of the truth?

You've posted three times in this forum thus far in June alone.

June 12, 2013 at 9:23 a.m.
Leaf said...

So nothing to do with this cartoon, but with what Al was saying about political parties. I've said before and believe that the civil liberties people (left wing ACLU) and the libertarians actually have more in common that libertarians and Republicans.

Both of them feel strongly about individual rights. The methods and culture just differ. ACLU uses lawyers and courts and tends to focus on downtrodden urban minorities. Libertarians stand up for themselves, don't look to the courts and tend to be white and suburban or rural.

The Snowdon leak has finally brought these two groups together. I'm glad to see it. The Left and Libertarians are natural allies.

June 12, 2013 at 10:08 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

alprova: the Gene Shalit of cartoon message boards.

June 12, 2013 at 10:25 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo: That sure seemed like a personal attack on Con, to me. Oink?

June 12, 2013 at 10:35 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Fraud, security concerns as approval rate for 'dreamers' hits 99 percent

by Judson Berger:

Illegal immigrants seeking a reprieve under an election-year program implemented by the Obama administration are being approved at a rate of over 99 percent -- a situation that has the immigration officer union raising concerns about fraud and security risks.

The program in question is called Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, which allows some illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. as children to seek tentative legal status. It was the administration's answer to the "Dream Act," a bill Congress drafted but did not approve.

The union representing thousands of employees in U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, which processes these applications, complained this week that workers were being compelled to "rubber stamp" all kinds of applications.

Union President Kenneth Palinkas said agency leaders have "intentionally" set up a process that "bypasses" traditional screening methods - like in-person interviews with the applicants. The agency has thus far processed roughly 60 percent of the applications it has received.

Palinkas told Fox News Latino that, in general, the agency is not denying applications "because we don't have time."

"We're just skimming files, and this is somebody's life, and you can't go through the file. There may be something in there you need to see," he said. "We're a granting machine."

June 12, 2013 at 10:35 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Report: DHS Halted Background Checks to Meet Flood of Amnesty Requests

by Mike Flynn:

President Obama took executive action to defer, for two years, deportation for illegal immigrants who entered the country as children. The result was a flood of requests to the immigration service for the temporary amnesty.

As a result of this demand, according to documents obtained by Judicial Watch, the Department of Homeland Security cut back on the legally-required criminal background checks of these immigrants. The revelation raises questions of how the agency could handle a blanket amnesty of all illegal immigrants.

Memos and emails obtained through the FOIA reveal that the agency suspended conducting full criminal background checks on illegals applying for the program and, instead, instituted a "lean and lite" process, which allowed the applicant to continue moving through the system.

Interestingly, on November 9th, three days after President Obama won reelection, DHS staff were told to stop taking applications for the temporary amnesty. It was somehow no longer necessary to expedient the granting of temporary amnesty. (Very interesting indeed ... You don't think he was exploiting these children?)

Supporters of the Senate amnesty bill promise that no illegal immigrants will be placed on the path to citizenship without being a full criminal background check. If the agency couldn't handle applications from several hundred thousand immigrants, how can it handle the 11 million would will be legalized after the bill passes?

June 12, 2013 at 10:41 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

They say that immigration reform is complicated. Not to ALPO. D's are for it; R's are against it. Right A.L.? I personally think the dems hope for its defeat. Would be a great (and continuing) strategy for the mid-term elections and beyond The dems aren't for IR. They ARE for adding to the constituency. Plain y simple, amigos.

June 12, 2013 at 11:11 a.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Alpo: That sure seemed like a personal attack on Con, to me. Oink?"

Why are you even worried about it? One of your worst habits is to jump in on things that have nothing at all to do with you. And given that you are the King of Snark, don't you think you are being just a wee bit hypocritical?

It was not a personal attack. It was a very astute observation.

He's quite a chauvinistic oinker and he proved it yesterday.

June 12, 2013 at 11:30 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo now correcting my habits. The man can do it all.

June 12, 2013 at 11:33 a.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "They say that immigration reform is complicated. Not to ALPO. D's are for it; R's are against it. Right A.L.?"

Yep...

"I personally think the dems hope for its defeat. Would be a great (and continuing) strategy for the mid-term elections and beyond The dems aren't for IR. They ARE for adding to the constituency. Plain y simple, amigos."

Let's say you are 100% correct. Why then are the Republicans too stupid to pull a rope-a-dope on the Democrats and unify behind immigration reform?

They just can't figure out which group would cost them the most votes, if they were to vote one way or the other on immigration reform. They are between a rock and a hard place.

Those pesky Tea-Party folks are gonna screw it up for them again, next year, mark my word.

June 12, 2013 at 11:39 a.m.
Leaf said...

For all his failings, W. Bush was for the same type of immigration reform as Obama. W's own party blocked it. Maybe Texans aren't so afraid of Hispanics.

June 12, 2013 at 11:40 a.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Alpo now correcting my habits."

No one can correct YOUR habits. That is why every time you have changed names, your habits give you away within the first few posts.

"The man can do it all."

I am quite talented, aren't I?

June 12, 2013 at 11:42 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

You are, A.L. . you are

June 12, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.
jesse said...

Immigration reform is going the way of gun control,it's all blather and jawboning, nothing of substance is gonna change! It's all politics as usual!

June 12, 2013 at 11:57 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

The Dream Act was a very sensible and fair first step in the right direction of immigration reform. There was no reason for it not to have passed with an easy majority from both parties. But there is one reason and one reason only that we are at such an impasse on immigration reform: the Republicans are doing what they do best, namely, spewing hate instead of being objective and working to actually solve the problem. Whether it's the issue of crime or illegal drugs or abortion or gay marriage or immigration reform, the Republicans first and foremost want to establish and label someone as the demon or transgressor and punish them instead of attacking the root of the problem. They always focus on the symptoms, not the real causes.

June 12, 2013 at 12:06 p.m.
miraweb said...

Interestingly, Lindsey Graham has decided to play the fiscal conservative card against the immigration hardliners. Sure - you can have the 90% border security provision - if you pony up the $25 billion to pay for it.

Well, you know we think sequestration is a good thing, and then we’re going to throw money at the border, we’re a little schizophrenic here. The bottom line is I think we can improve border security, but it’s gotta be paid for; it’s gotta be affordable.

But when it comes with additional new triggers, the lack of trust is real. Here’s the problem for our Democratic colleagues: when you say 90% operational control for the border, it wouldn’t be hard to envision a Republican-controlled wing of Congress where they undercut the ability to get to 90% with the lack of funding.

  • Senator Lindsey Graham

http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/11/immigration-reform-qa-with-senator-lindsey-graham/

June 12, 2013 at 12:09 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Lindsey Graham is a meathead.

June 12, 2013 at 12:13 p.m.
miraweb said...

One more comment from Lindsey Graham:

We need a bill because our immigration system is so broken. But politically, if the bill fails and Republicans are blamed in the eyes of the public for not being practical it makes it virtually impossible for us to win the White House in 2016.

http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/11/immigration-reform-qa-with-senator-lindsey-graham/

June 12, 2013 at 12:15 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "Is it not a fact that Tea-Partiers are leading the charge against immigration reform?"

No. They think they are leading the charge against stupid legislation. Kind of like being against "The Affordable Health Care Act" does not mean you are against reducing the costs of health care.

June 12, 2013 at 12:34 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

If the truth be known, it is labor unions that are leading the charge against immigration reform.

June 12, 2013 at 1 p.m.
miraweb said...

I'm curious BRP - what would good, solid, realistic immigration reform legislation look like from a Tea Party point of view?

June 12, 2013 at 1:19 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

I can't say that I am qualified to speak for the Tea Party as I am apparently part of the fringe libertarian wing of the political spectrum. I could offer a few ideas.

For starters, it would be pared down so your averaged concerned citizen (and immigrant) can understand it without a team of lawyers. The current bill has 832 sections?

It would not contain exceptions to the law that are left to the interpretation of unelected bureaucrats.

It would not facilitate the transfer of wealth from one group (citizens) to another (immigrants).

June 12, 2013 at 1:35 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I'm curious Mira - other than simply opening the borders, what would realistic IR legislation look like to you?

June 12, 2013 at 1:35 p.m.
miraweb said...

So three things you would not do. What, exactly would you do?

June 12, 2013 at 1:47 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Mira: Are you running for office?

June 12, 2013 at 1:48 p.m.
hambone said...

A three strand barbed wire fence? No wonder!

June 12, 2013 at 2:45 p.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Yawn

June 12, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "So three things you would not do. What, exactly would you do?"

I am not all that sure. Immigration has been the least of my concerns for the last decade or so. I suppose that if we did not have a social welfare state and if we were not creating enemies all over the world that would like to sneak in and do us harm, I would be all for an open border. So, in the mean time I pound my fists on the table about the moral problems with wealth redistribution and a counter productive foreign policy thinking that if we fixed those immigration would not be a problem.

June 12, 2013 at 3:10 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

zzzzz

June 12, 2013 at 3:10 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "No. They think they are leading the charge against stupid legislation."

You're being intellectually dishonest or either you are ignorant of the facts.

On May 21st, a group of 150 Tea Party members and friends signed a letter, including former Rep. Allen West of Florida, RedState.com editor Erick Erickson, and Jenny Beth Martin, the co-founder and national coordinator of Tea Party Patriots, known as "The Coalition Against Senate Bill 744."

http://images.politico.com/global/2013/05/20/coalition_immigration_letter.html

"Kind of like being against "The Affordable Health Care Act" does not mean you are against reducing the costs of health care."

Another subject for another day, my friend.

"If the truth be known, it is labor unions that are leading the charge against immigration reform."

The only labor union I am aware of that has offered any input on the issue are those representing Border Control Agents.

No...it's being led by those pesky Tea Party folk...

June 12, 2013 at 3:15 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

So you think SB744 is good legislation and West & Co. think it is crap.

That does not mean that West & Co. are anti-immigration reform, just that they are anti SB744!

Get it?

June 12, 2013 at 3:26 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Plugs Biden back in the news, ranting about Algore, AKA carbon footprint.“This man was elected president of the United States of America,” Mr. Biden said at a Washington fundraiser for Senate candidate Rep. Ed Markey. “No, no, no. He was elected president of the United States of America. But for the good of the nation, when the bad decision in my view was made, he did the right thing for the nation.” hard to tell which guy is the bigger twit...gore or plugs.

June 12, 2013 at 3:26 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP, you act as if the wealth distribution problem is not the fact that wealth is concentrated in too few hands, which is why our economy is currently suffering.

A healthy system of capitalization must include a modicum of wealth being put into the hands of those most likely to spend it.

I read all the time about how bad it is that those who work in this country will not be able to support those who don't.

Using that same premise, how is it that the few who have the vast majority of the wealth in this nation will be able to assure that every business in America will thrive?

Our economy would improve overnight, if the vast majority of the people in this nation had a little more in their pockets to spend and were confident that their jobs were solid for the future.

Everyone I know is living on less than they were a decade ago. I'm living on a third of what I was earning just five years ago, although in my case, part of that was by choice.

Too many Americans are afraid to go into debt for anything. Too many Americans have no confidence that their jobs may disappear.

Now many of you sit around and blame the President for all of this, but he is the only person attempting to do anything about the economy.

And with every single Republican sitting on their collective asses and and hamstringing him at every turn by refusing to pass legislation, produce results that would restore confidence, create job opportunities, and yes, even redistribute some of the concentrated wealth down the chain from whence it came, this country will continue to suffer economically.

I don't know who will follow Obama as President, but what I do know, is it will not be any of the Republicans who currently speak out against the President today.

Republicans who want to win elections in the future will be the ones who distance themselves from right-wing extremists.

June 12, 2013 at 3:39 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

alpo says "I don't know who will follow Obama as President, but what I do know, is it will not be any of the Republicans who currently speak out against the President today." are you kidding, Alpy? You think it more likely a Republican backing BHO will be elected?

June 12, 2013 at 3:50 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Alprova,

Break up the concentrations of power that facilitate the creation of the uber wealthy. When they do something like the creation of toxic derivatives, punish them up to and including the death penalty.

Do not do it with an immoral tax code.

We are living on less because our economy is being drug down by the social welfare state and mountains of inappropriate and counterproductive regulation.

Before my comments are mischaracterised... That does not mean that I think appropriate regulation does not exist.

June 12, 2013 at 3:57 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "So you think SB744 is good legislation and West & Co. think it is crap. That does not mean that West & Co. are anti-immigration reform, just that they are anti SB744! Get it?"

I actually have not offered an opinion one way or the other to the specifics of SB744. But since you asked...

I feel that 13 years is way too long a path that these people must travel to become legitimate citizens. I think forcing them to write and to speak palpable English to be qualified and considered for citizenship is beyond arrogant.

Other than that, I think it's a decent start.

Just as miraweb tried to pin you down as to what you would do, there is a lack of what those opposed to SB744 would do to rectify illegal immigration.

All I have ever heard or read from these people is that they want massive deportation and enforcement to be allowed to go forward, and that Sir, is not a viable plan and most Americans are opposed to it.

Particularly when it comes to those who came here as children, I find any effort or calling to ship them out of this country, to be remarkably cruel, a demonstration of a complete lack of compassion for fellow humans, and decidedly un-American.

June 12, 2013 at 4:04 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo: Would a 30 day path to citizenship be more in line?

June 12, 2013 at 4:07 p.m.
LaughingBoy said...

Alprova, where does it end? What's the difference in that and in open borders, when there is a call to let the parents stay also to avoid separating families?

June 12, 2013 at 4:13 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Alprova,

If we lived in a free society, we could have open borders and there would be no need for an immigration law.

When you have a nation of slaves, people bound by force to the social welfare state, forced at the point of a gun to turn over huge percentages of their wealth to support the creations of politicians... you have to formalise the enslavement of people that enter the country so that they can contribute and not just take from the political creations.

Without the social welfare state we would not need to confiscate wealth from people so we would not need to document them. Let's stop pretending we live in a free country. It makes it much easier to understand what makes the wheels go 'round.

June 12, 2013 at 4:16 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "Alprova, Break up the concentrations of power that facilitate the creation of the uber wealthy. When they do something like the creation of toxic derivatives, punish them up to and including the death penalty."

Why not do something more radical? How about paying people a decent wage and rewarding loyalty when people put in years of service on a job?

"Do not do it with an immoral tax code."

Sir, everyone in this nation is paying far less, in terms of percentage of personal income tax, than anytime in the past 100 years. Those who are paying the least, again in terms of percentage of income, are those who are the wealthiest.

"We are living on less because our economy is being drug down by the social welfare state and mountains of inappropriate and counterproductive regulation."

That's a load of bunk and you know it. If it were remotely true, and disposable wealth was actually being delivered into the hands of people who do not deserve it or who do not need such assistance, on any widespread scale, they would not only have more to spend, they would have the time to spend it.

"Before my comments are mischaracterised... That does not mean that I think appropriate regulation does not exist."

I know I do this a lot, but what regulations that currently exist, do you feel are the cause of our current diminished economic climate?

I'm not saying that none exist, but I would love to discover what it is that people are talking about all the time when they make such a claim.

What specific regulations are counterproductive to our economy and which ones are keeping wealth out of the hands of the middle class?

June 12, 2013 at 4:17 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo and his ilk really want immediate and total amnesty. They just don't have the nads to admit it. With all due respect.

June 12, 2013 at 4:17 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/05/17/morning-bell-weve-seen-the-effect-of-amnesty-before/

In the mid-’80s, many Members of Congress advocated amnesty for long-settled illegal immigrants. The path to citizenship was not automatic. Immigrants had to pay application fees, learn to speak English, understand American civics, pass a medical exam, and register for military selective service. Those with convictions for a felony or three misdemeanors were ineligible.

This should sound familiar, as it’s quite close to the path and provisions set forth by the Gang of Eight.

Today they call it a “roadmap to citizenship.” Ronald Reagan called it “amnesty.” And he was right.

The 1986 reform did not solve our immigration problem—in fact, the population of illegal immigrants has nearly quadrupled since that “comprehensive” bill.

Why didn’t it work? Well, one reason is that everything else the 1986 bill promised—from border security to law enforcement—was to come later. It never did. Only amnesty prevailed, and that encouraged more illegal immigration.

Today, we have many of the same needs we did then. We need to work on better securing our border. We need to modernize our legal immigration system, including effective temporary worker programs. And we need strong enforcement of the laws we already have, including those that enforce immigration policies in the workplace.

The Gang of Eight is making promises now. “Border security” is a big promise. But their proposal spends money and grants amnesty without the guarantee that this promise will be kept.

We are having much the same debate and being offered much the same deal in exchange for promises largely dependent on the will of future Congresses and Presidents.

Instead, we should learn from our mistakes.

America welcomes more immigrants than any other country.

But in keeping open that door of opportunity, we also must uphold the rule of law and enhance a fair immigration process, as Reagan said, to “humanely regain control of our borders and thereby preserve the value of one of the most sacred possessions of our people: American citizenship.”

June 12, 2013 at 4:20 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Are you sure you're not Easy, Noogs?

June 12, 2013 at 4:34 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "Alprova, If we lived in a free society, we could have open borders and there would be no need for an immigration law."

No need to be sarcastic. I'm attempting to have a serious discussion. I have never called for open borders. But, I cannot overlook the reasons why they come here, what they risk to do it, and as a person with loads of compassion, I simply cannot send them packing back across the border on the basis of any cold-hearted law that makes them illegal to be here.

"When you have a nation of slaves, people bound by force to the social welfare state, forced at the point of a gun to turn over huge percentages of their wealth to support the creations of politicians... you have to formalise the enslavement of people that enter the country so that they can contribute and not just take from the political creations."

Sir, I hate to beat a beleaguered point into the ground, but no one forces you to be a "slave" to anyone. You're free as can be to find you a cardboard box, find a nice quiet place to set it up like a tent, and to live out the rest of your life foraging for whatever you may need, by holding out your hand for contributions to the cause.

If ceasing to pay taxes is your goal, there's your answer.

"Without the social welfare state we would not need to confiscate wealth from people so we would not need to document them. Let's stop pretending we live in a free country. It makes it much easier to understand what makes the wheels go 'round."

Contributing to society and taking care of those who could not do for themselves has been around since Biblical times. In fact, one can read of it repeatedly in that Bible that some so hold near and dear, as guidelines to their lives.

I find no fault in organizing charitable efforts by our Government, and in the collection of taxes to fund them. Are they truly done at the point of a gun and are they unrealistic?

If and when we achieve or return to a taxation rate that includes the seizing of most of what anyone earns, at any income level, then let's be sure to discuss this some more.

The rich in this country have nothing to bitch about. When compared to taxation rates in other developed nations, we have it quite decent today.

June 12, 2013 at 4:34 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

by Amy Payne:

Insanity is often defined as doing the same thing over and over yet expecting a different result.

Remember, once amnesty is granted it can never be taken away. Senator Chuck Grassley (R-IA) took to the Senate floor yesterday to outline several reasons why we may be asking for a mulligan on this amnesty proposal.

“With this bill, the American people are being sold a product. They’re being asked to accept legalization. And in exchange, they’d be assured through this legislation that the laws are going to be enforced.” But this “product” contains all sorts of hidden agendas and faulty promises, with no guarantees that the promises will come true once the amnesty is in place.

“The Obama Administration has pushed the envelope by waiving welfare laws,” Grassley reminded the Senate, so why should we assume the Administration wouldn’t do it again? “The reality check for the American people is that there are loopholes and the potential for public benefits to go to those who are legalized under the bill.”

The danger of putting too many things in one bill is that you end up having to pass it to see what’s in it. But we know one thing: Amnesty for illegal immigrants is the first order of business.

We’ve tried it before, and it didn’t work. This is the wrong way to address a serious issue with trillions in taxpayer dollars at stake.

June 12, 2013 at 4:35 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Mouse noogies: It's "bated" breath, moron.

June 12, 2013 at 4:48 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Alpo and his ilk really want immediate and total amnesty. They just don't have the nads to admit it. With all due respect."

Is it too difficult for you to read between the lines?

When it comes to those who came here as kids, you bet I have no problem with them being granted total and immediate amnesty. Sending them packing from a country that they only know to one that they most likely have no memory of, is a most heinous and cruel punishment for decisions that they had no part in making.

For those who did make conscience decisions to relocate here against our laws, if they have lived a life that includes working for what they have earned, without any criminal convictions, for let's say at least ten years, I'm a-okay with allowing them to stay here as well.

You can call me amnesty alprova.

Now, on the issue of border control, I am on board with anything that will plug the holes that currently exist to prevent further breaches of our borders, but I don't want to read any stories of Agents plugging holes in desperate people with their guns.

June 12, 2013 at 4:48 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

PlainTruth said...

Mouse noogies: It's "bated" breath, moron.


It really could be that his breath is "baited". After all you don't know what he has been stuffing in that pie hole.

June 12, 2013 at 4:53 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "That's a load of bunk and you know it."

I expect nothing less from someone who has (at least partially) accepted their role as slave to their masters.

The likes of Soros is your Shepard, Obama is your sheep dog. Accept that fully and you can be fully content!

June 12, 2013 at 4:53 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Jt: a fair point re noogs.

June 12, 2013 at 5:03 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wote: "I expect nothing less from someone who has (at least partially) accepted their role as slave to their masters."

I don't view myself as a slave to anyone. I am free to do whatever I want, when I want, so long as it is not a criminal act. I have worked all my adult life. I have paid income taxes all my adult life.

Many years in my adult life, I paid the maximum amount of taxes collected on individuals, because I earned enough to warrant such payment. I would love nothing more than to reach that plateau again. Life was rather good in those days.

When I write a check to the IRS and to the State of Georgia that is more than the one I wrote the previous quarter, it is most likely due to the fact that my income has risen.

I don't know about you, but to me, that is a GOOD thing and while you may bitch about it, I welcome it with open arms.

"The likes of Soros is your Shepard, Obama is your sheep dog. Accept that fully and you can be fully content!"

What you seem to have missed is that I am fully content and have been for most of my life.

I don't base my happiness. my current wealth, or the pitfalls in my life, on whomever inhabits the White House. My life is almost never affected by any President of the United States. Never.

I shake my head and smile at most of you people who writhe your hands anytime the President farts. Your versions of reality will never be mine, and that too is a good thing.

June 12, 2013 at 5:13 p.m.
alprova said...

Uncork the bottles!! Set off a few firecrackers!!

10 year old Sarah Murnaghan is in surgery receiving a new set of lungs as we sit here debating the immigration issue.

June 12, 2013 at 5:19 p.m.
alprova said...

Uh oh...Rand Paul is really gonna tick of his core supporters. He kicked off his Presidential bid today and he's making it clear that he's gonna kiss the hind ends of the Latino and Latina voter.

Speaking today at the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference and Latino Partnership for Conservative Principles, he was quoted as saying;

"“We will find a place for you."

"Imagine 12 million people who are already here coming out of the shadows to become new taxpayers,"

*"First, everyone has to acknowledge that we aren't going to deport 12 million illegal immigrants."

"If you wish to work, if you wish to live and work in America, then we will find a place for you."

"In order to bring conservatives to this cause however, those who work for reform must understand that a real solution must ensure that our borders are secure."

"But we also must treat those who are already here with understanding and compassion."

"The first part of my plan, border security, must be certified by Border Patrol and an Investigator General and then voted on by Congress to ensure it has been accomplished. This is what I call, Trust but Verify."

"With this in place, I believe conservatives will accept what needs to come next, an issue that must be addressed: what becomes of the 12 million undocumented workers in the United States?"

"My plan is very simple and will include work visas for those who are here, who are willing to come forward and work."

"Conservatives are wary of amnesty. My plan will not grant amnesty or move anyone to the front of the line. But what we have now is de facto amnesty. The solution doesn't have to be amnesty or deportation. A middle ground might be called probation where those who came illegally become legal through a probationary period."

Is there anyone who agrees with Rand Paul that his "probationary period" is not granting the same thing that SB744 does?

June 12, 2013 at 5:44 p.m.
tifosi said...

President Obama's socialist agenda keeps failing! IMPEACH HIM!

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/survey-ceos-more-optimistic-economy-hiring-6C10289064

June 12, 2013 at 6:29 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Rickaroo said...

The Dream Act was a very sensible and fair first step in the right direction of immigration reform.

Republicans first and foremost want to establish and label someone as the demon or transgressor and punish them instead of attacking the root of the problem. They always focus on the symptoms, not the real causes.


Isn’t the problem, that the U.S. has people entering our country without going through legal channels? Shouldn’t the action, needed to address the “root of this problem,” be to correct the failings in our immigration laws and enforcement that allows this to happen?

The symptoms of this activity are many but one is the status of children or young adults that were brought here by their parents without them being able to give their consent. There have been many attempts to rectify this through the DREAM act.

However isn’t that concentrating on the symptoms first before addressing the “real causes” that allow the problem and its symptoms to continue unabated?

The hold up on passing some form of the DREAM act hasn’t been the hate for these people by Conservatives but the inability of our political leaders to address this situation in the correct sequence.

June 12, 2013 at 6:30 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

tifosi said...

President Obama's socialist agenda keeps failing! IMPEACH HIM!

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/survey-ceos-more-optimistic-economy-hiring-6C10289064


From your link:

U.S. chief executives expect to hire more workers in the next six months and that sales will improve modestly, a tepid if slightly optimistic reading of the economy, a Business Roundtable survey has found.

Roughly 32 percent of CEOs said they expected to hire more workers in the next six months, a slight improvement from prior surveys. But about 26 percent expected to cut jobs, a 1 percentage point increase from the last survey.

The unresolved U.S. debt crisis and an "uncertain political environment" were holding back the American economy, the Business Roundtable said.

"Overall, CEOs see the U.S. economy still on a slow road to recovery," said Jim McNerney, chairman of the Business Roundtable and CEO of Boeing.

CEOs said they planned to spend less on capital projects in the next six months.

McNerney and other executives on a conference call to discuss the survey again called for reform of the U.S. corporate tax system, saying current rates are too high for companies to compete globally.


Yeah, the economy is absolutely on fire and this is the half of the economic cycle that contains our economic expansion.

June 12, 2013 at 6:50 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "What you seem to have missed is that I am fully content and have been for most of my life."

I am sorry, I thought I read you complaining about your role as the herd animal that makes Soros rich... thought I detected a bit of malcontent. It is kind of funny to see you think that you are going to be able to get your sheep dog to confiscate some of that wealth back for you.

June 12, 2013 at 6:53 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Uncork the bottles!! Set off a few firecrackers!!

10 year old Sarah Murnaghan is in surgery receiving a new set of lungs as we sit here debating the immigration issue.


I hope she makes it and has a long and pleasant life.

However isn’t this a sign, either good or bad, that those that can best manipulate the media can find their way around the rules that will be instituted thru Obamacare. They will be considered the healthcare equivalent of the wealthy that can always buy privilege...Right?

I wonder if someone else, maybe even someone else’s child, is dying just now for lack of a kidney transplant?

June 12, 2013 at 7:07 p.m.
tifosi said...

"Yeah, the economy is absolutely on fire and this is the half of the economic cycle that contains our economic expansion."

Typical right-wing blindness. Better than anyone else has ever done. I'll take it. Considering it was the Republicans that were at the helm when I lost my job and house, they will never earn my respect again. Ronald Reagan has been the greatest President in my lifetime.

June 12, 2013 at 7:11 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Is it not a fact that Tea-Partiers are leading the charge against immigration reform?

(I guess it all depends on how you define immigration reform)

Republicans are not going to advance as a political party, not to mention begin winning important elections, until they force those with extreme right-wing views to form their own separate political party. With very little exception, the Democrat Party is quite unified. The Republican Party is all over the place and the infighting is becoming ridiculous and more pronounced.

(Is an imposed strict doctrinaire view point really the answer to a healthy political party over the long term. You can already detect the stultification of the Democratic party from the lack of competing ideas. )

June 12, 2013 at 7:21 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

tifosi said...

"Yeah, the economy is absolutely on fire and this is the half of the economic cycle that contains our economic expansion."

Typical right-wing blindness. Better than anyone else has ever done. I'll take it. Considering it was the Republicans that were at the helm when I lost my job and house, they will never earn my respect again. Ronald Reagan has been the greatest President in my lifetime.


It’s always someone else's fault when things go South for you ... aren’t they? It couldn’t have been that you overextended yourself considering your inability to hold or find a job?

By the way what explanation do you have for those that happened to lose their job and house during Reagan’s administration or any other. It happens all the time and blaming other is hardly productive.

By continuing to charge ahead with agendas that they dishonestly decided to hide from the American people who voted for them, is going to haunt them next year.

June 12, 2013 at 7:32 p.m.
hambone said...

Back and forth, round and round, up and down.

Trolls trolling trolls!!

June 12, 2013 at 7:37 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Noogies: Maybe I missed it. Where is your plan?

June 12, 2013 at 7:45 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Uh oh...Rand Paul is really gonna tick of his core supporters. He kicked off his Presidential bid today and he's making it clear that he's gonna kiss the hind ends of the Latino and Latina voter.

Is there anyone who agrees with Rand Paul that his "probationary period" is not granting the same thing that SB744 does?


I do, although I am not at present a Rand Paul supporter, and here is why:

"In order to bring conservatives to this cause however, those who work for reform must understand that a real solution must ensure that our borders are secure."

"The first part of my plan, border security, must be certified by Border Patrol and an Investigator General and then voted on by Congress to ensure it has been accomplished. This is what I call, Trust but Verify."

"With this in place, I believe conservatives will accept what needs to come next, an issue that must be addressed: what becomes of the 12 million undocumented workers in the United States?"

"My plan is very simple and will include work visas for those who are here, who are willing to come forward and work."

"Conservatives are wary of amnesty. My plan will not grant amnesty or move anyone to the front of the line.


I can agree with that and no I don’t think SB744 will do so.

I also don't think that immigrant activist think he could be considered on their side.

June 12, 2013 at 7:46 p.m.
tifosi said...

"It’s always someone else's fault when things go South for you ... aren’t they? It couldn’t have been that you overextended yourself considering your inability to hold or find a job?"

Or... it could be an employer that started a new program that wasn't ready to survive the economic implosion that occurred under an extreme Republican administration. But, I understand blinders limit your understanding. I also know many of you are so disconnected from the real world that you didn't realize the Republicans caused some of the highest unemployment rates in our lifetime, but then chose to blame it on a new president that had only been in office for 1.5 months. DOH!

But, fortunately the Germans came to Chattanooga and put us to work. :)

June 12, 2013 at 9:14 p.m.
tifosi said...

Socialism did work! Enjoy all the tax revenue they brought.

June 12, 2013 at 9:30 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Noogs: I'll tell my 93 yr. old mom what you said. You slime bucket.

June 12, 2013 at 10:12 p.m.
miraweb said...

First chance I've had to get back to this.

You asked for my view - fair enough. Remember, I actually lived in Guatemala for a few years as a health care worker. I saw people there who had a plastic roof with no walls, others living with six children in one room, people my own age with severe deformities from polio, and women explaining to me when you asked them about their children that they have "five dead and three living."

I spoke with a woman whose 12 year old son was shot in front of her.

I saw most people there working from before dawn to midnight.

Personally, I would hold down the barb wire and let these folks pass. If we want to keep things balanced, we could take every 12th grader slouching on the back row and ship 'em down in trade.

And we would be a better country for it.

June 12, 2013 at 11:04 p.m.
alprova said...

JT wrote: "You can already detect the stultification of the Democratic party from the lack of competing ideas."

Darling, before the Republican domination of Congress that began in 1996, times were good for most Americans in this nation and any time the Democrats have ruled, the economy has improved and stayed that way.

Sooner or later, the American people are going to figure that out and ban the Republicans to the back of the bus permanently.

I truly hope that the Republicans keep up the good work of showing why they are not worth voting for, for they are absolutely putting people off with their gridlocking efforts that have come to define them.

June 12, 2013 at 11:15 p.m.
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