published Tuesday, June 18th, 2013

The Gun Rack

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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alprova said...

Clearly, I am relieved that I do not have any children or grand children in Tennessee schools.

June 18, 2013 at 12:09 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

You'd prefer Chicago schools?

June 18, 2013 at 12:24 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Bradley may, or may not, let qualified teachers carry guns. OK with me--and I do have (split custody)kids in a TN school.

Where do gun massacres happen? In gun-free zones. Let Bradley put up a few signs saying "Our schools are NOT gun-free zones" and those schools will be safer from killers, tho perhaps not from accidents.

June 18, 2013 at 12:31 a.m.
John_Proctor said...

Andrew, you have no dog in this hunt as you have lambasted "government schools" for years. Some Chicago schools have the same level of academic achievement Louisiana schools which teach creationism and call it science. Religious fanatics such as yourself are never going to be satisfied until they can dictate religious dogma as curriculum and biblical stories as science in public schools.

I was surprised to learn that you have kids in public schools given your constant editorial rants against them.

June 18, 2013 at 12:33 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Guns solve violence the way debt improves insolvency.

June 18, 2013 at 1:38 a.m.
fairmon said...

Charter schools perform better. We can't afford more security officers the money was spent on a 15% salary increase in the super's $167,000 salary.

June 18, 2013 at 5 a.m.
conservative said...

Dumb,dumb,dumb!

There is the real world and there is the Liberal world.

June 18, 2013 at 6:30 a.m.
caddy said...

Perfect, Andrew !!

Gun Free Zones are death traps. Sheep will deny it as they are being slaughtered ...

June 18, 2013 at 6:44 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

OK, al, let's make this personal. School A has teachers and staff who have firearms training and a weapon locked in their desk or closet. School B has no teachers or staff with firearms training and no weapons at the school. You hear on the radio that a gunman has entered both schools at the same time. Which school would you want your child or grandchild attending? Answer A or B, al. No BS.

June 18, 2013 at 7 a.m.
jesse said...

All "gun free zone" means is the killers are the only ones w/a gun!

June 18, 2013 at 7:41 a.m.
caddy said...

Joe, you probably should not use logic. Liberals struggle with it.

June 18, 2013 at 8:01 a.m.
dude_abides said...

joepulitzer said... "You hear on the radio that a gunman has entered both schools at the same time."

Hey, we got no chance against a gunman that can be two places at once! I guess school C (home schooled in a bunker) would become the most viable alternative. While we're painting perfect pictures for our arguments, let's include school D, at which the gunman could only be a "pointed stick" man because we've been able to keep guns out of his evil hands.

June 18, 2013 at 8:25 a.m.
patriot1 said...

Alpo (registered republicanic) says...."Clearly, I am relieved that I do not have any children or grand children in Tennessee schools"

So are the fine folks in Tennessee, Al

June 18, 2013 at 8:26 a.m.
dude_abides said...

patriot1 said... "So are the fine folks in Tennessee, Al"

Nice avatar, pat. Bet your wife is relieved you're a "minute" man, since your flag is flying at half-staff.

What's a republicanic, BTW? They definitely need someone working under the hood these days.

June 18, 2013 at 8:36 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Much ado about not much.

June 18, 2013 at 8:41 a.m.
patriot1 said...

dude says..."What's a republicanic, BTW? They definitely need someone working under the hood these days."

For some reason the 'rats put an "ic" on the end of their party label democrat......just thought I should on the republican label as well.

June 18, 2013 at 8:45 a.m.
alprova said...

I do not feel that arming teachers is going to make kids any safer, nor will it make teachers any safer, nor do I care to argue with anyone over my opinion. Everyone has one and no amount of discussion is likely to sway anyone from their own opinion.

If two armed gunmen were to enter any two schools, my first question would be to ask how it is that two armed men were able to enter two schools? Aren't schools these days basically locked down as a rule?

That aside, given the the fact that gun proponents just hate the thought of stepping up background checks for all sales of guns, as a means by which guns can be prevented from winding up in the hands of someone who would enter a school with evil intent, am I to suddenly trust that any school employee granted permission to have a concealed firearm on their person, will be totally responsible, sane, and that those guns will not somehow, some way, wind up in the wrong hands one day?

An enterprising student will not have to worry about bringing a gun to school to carry out an attack. "I'll just catch the teacher off-guard and relieve him or her of theirs."

The Times Free Press makes no mention of anyone granted such authority to have a thorough background check performed to determine whether or not this person should have a concealed firearm on them.

Everyone is human, including teachers, and subject to brain misfires that could result up to and including the use of that gun to bow out of life with a bang and might just include taking a few lives with them.

The only thing any more dangerous, again in my opinion, than the thought of one gunman opening fire in a room of children, is two people playing out a scene of the Hatfield's and the McCoy's with children right there to become victims of crossfire.

All arming teachers with guns will accomplish is that anyone with the intent to kill, will walk into a classroom and shoot the adult first, whether they are actually armed or not.

Those of you espousing logic when it comes to this issue, really haven't thought this one through, just as Tennessee's legislators have not.

June 18, 2013 at 9:09 a.m.
alprova said...

patriot1 wrote: "So are the fine folks in Tennessee, Al"

It is so refreshing to read the words of a deep thinker, like yourself.

June 18, 2013 at 9:15 a.m.
klifnotes said...

At least now the students will have a choice as to who gets to take the first shot. The Adam Lanzas, school janitor, bus driver, SRO, teacher, parent volunteer or staff.

And then there's always the perverts who gravitate to these matters.

check this one out:

"WARREN, Mich. (WXYZ) - Retired Warren police officer, Dale Wayne Malish, of Roseville was arraigned Friday afternoon in 37th District Court on two charges of 3rd degree criminal sexual conduct for allegedly having a sexual relationship with a 16-year old high school student."

"For at least two school terms, 62-year-old Malish worked as a security officer at Warren Woods Tower High School where he met the 16-year-old junior. He was known as “OD” for Officer Dale to the students and staff and was well-liked."

Read more: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/retired-warren-police-officer-accused-of-having-sex-with-a-high-school-student#ixzz2WZadnY19

Not to forget the recent story of an armed moonlighting security guard @ Rangeview High School in Aurora Aurora Colorado who accidently shot a student after school had let out.

June 18, 2013 at 9:22 a.m.
tifosi said...

I wonder if teachers will be required to secure their firearms. Or, will they be like many other reckless gun owners and just leave them laying around or shoved in a desk drawer.

June 18, 2013 at 9:25 a.m.
tifosi said...

A 10-year old boy, Eric Klyaz, was playing with a 9-year old girl in a garage, which was made into a play area, in San Diego, California. No adults were present, but they were being supervised by the girl's 14-year old sister.

But the two younger kids got hold of a loaded .9mm handgun, and it was unintentionally discharged, hitting Eric in the chest. He died soon after.

June 18, 2013 at 9:26 a.m.
alprova said...

According to what I have read, they will be allowed to have the gun on their person and will not be required to secure it.

June 18, 2013 at 9:28 a.m.
klifnotes said...

alprova said... I do not feel that arming teachers is going to make kids any safer, nor will it make teachers any safer, +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I agree, al, 1trillion percent. Supporters of arming everyone, down to the school janitor, with guns are banking on the belief there are no unstable teachers, principals, janitors, school bus drivers. Although almost a week doesn't go by where a story doesn't crop up about a member in the educational profession either physically or sexually abusing a child. Some as young as five and 6 years of age. Just recently a teacher @ a Tacoma Washington middle school was charged with having a sexual relationship with one of her 6TH grade students.

June 18, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.
klifnotes said...

tifosi, that's a sad story that's becoming the norm these days. And I agree with you and alprova totally. Overtime, people become comfortable, even with guns. When they become comfortable they also become reckless and carless.

Even if teachers were required to place their guns in a locked drawer in school there's also no guarantee they wont' forget to lock the drawer at some point. Children are very insightful and watchful. They see and observe things we adults sometimes overlook. I can recall a situation years ago where some 4TH, 5TH or 6Th graders (when sixth grade was still a part of elementary) trying to convince adults at the school that a particular teacher was constantly drunk in the classroom and kept a bottle of scotch or vodka in her desk drawer. We all dismissed it as a too vivid imagination by overly imaginative children. One day another teacher had to take over the teachers classroom as she didn't show up for class. And voila! Right there in a slightly opened drawer was a bottle of Vodka or Scotch. Paying closer attention to the teacher after that, we came to realize the teacher really was drunk most days. We adults just didn't capture what the young students had. Not all drunks stumble, wobble or talk crazy. Although this one giggled a lot, and her eyes always had that glassy look to them.

June 18, 2013 at 9:40 a.m.
miraweb said...

The one thread among all the shootings has been weapons in the hands of unhappy young men.

The normal state of childhood is to be impulsive, emotional, and exercise bad judgment. No responsible gun owner could think that placing more weapons near hundreds of children is a smart move.

The solution is getting weapons out of the hands of unstable, unhappy young men - or we can choose to do nothing and continue to watch these shootings escalate.

June 18, 2013 at 9:44 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Watching you lefties whine is fun. Ban all guns!

June 18, 2013 at 9:58 a.m.
klifnotes said...

I agree, miraweb. Only, it's not just the unstable, unhappy young men that bears watching, but also the responsible adults and even some of those with authority and power. Like the Hero cop accused of forcing himself on women. The one who was invited to the White House at sat next to the First Lady in a photo op.

excerpt from nbcphiladelphia:

"Former Philadelphia police officer Richard DeCoatsworth, once honored by President Barack Obama for his heroism, remains in jail on $60 million bail for allegedly raping two women -- forcing one into prostitution.

"Now, NBC10 has learned the City of Philadelphia is spending more than $1.5 million defending itself against DeCoatsworth's checkered past on the force."

"Law enforcement sources say DeCoatsworth had nine citizen complaints against him over his nearly five year stint with the department. The complains, sources say, included "

"Issues with the 27-year-old began to arise in 2005 when he was in the Philadelphia Police Academy. DeCoatsworth allegedly injured a Girard Avenue business owner during a fight. However, he was allowed to remain a recruit despite the allegations."

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/breaking/Hero-Police-Officer-Charged-With-Holding-2-Women-Captive-207991531.html

June 18, 2013 at 10 a.m.
Maximus said...

The terrible school shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary in a rich, upscale, mostly liberal Democrat neighborhood did not stop until the authorities with guns arrived. Had the guns not arrived the wacko would have killed everyone locked in the gun free zone. Probably a good idea to have armed guards in the schools just like we have in most banks and government buildings. Hell, we have an aircraft carrier off the coast of Ireland right now protecting Barry The Welfare Pimp and his royal family while they are on their $100 million dollar vacation financed by China. $&/(((((((

June 18, 2013 at 10 a.m.
jesse said...

AL, IF you are in a situation where you need a gun and you have to GO GET IT then you are in a world of trouble!

If the Conn. shooter had walked into a classroom where the teachers gun was locked in a cabinet i doubt he would have waited for the teacher to go get it!

June 18, 2013 at 10:11 a.m.
klifnotes said...

jesse, unless an individual is on 24/7 alert there's no guarantee an armed teacher or teachers would have been able to stop him and there's also the chance of more casualties, rather than less, when everyone is armed. Unless, one is on constant 24/7 alert, it's the element of surprise that gives this and other potential shooters the advantage. Not the fact that others weren't armed.

June 18, 2013 at 10:19 a.m.
jesse said...

Klif, THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES about any thing in life!

The pragmatic approach is "prepare for the worst and hope for the best"!

A little paranoia helps too!It's called "situational awaness!"

June 18, 2013 at 10:26 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Perhaps if the home-schooled children of Andrea Yates had a gun to protect themselves from their crazy Christian mother, they wouldn't have been drowned by the voice of God.

It makes more sense to have weapons to protect against the religious lunatic fringe of fundamentalism.

June 18, 2013 at 10:30 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

So, Kliffie. Just stAnd there till the bad guy runs out of ammo?

June 18, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.
klifnotes said...

jesse said: The pragmatic approach is "prepare for the worst and hope for the best"! A little paranoia helps too!It's called "situational awaness!"

For some reason the above brought memories of all those angry road-rage shooters when someone cut them off in traffic or gave them the finger in passing, or gave them what was misinterpreted as a funny look.

June 18, 2013 at 10:35 a.m.
klifnotes said...

PlainTruth said... So, Kliffie. Just stand there till the bad guy runs out of ammo?

Nope! Just be realistic. Otherwise, you're just compounding and creating another tragedy to solve a potential one.

Who will be on board to watch the armed school personnel to guarantee they're not abusing the privilege of being armed on America's most vulnerable? And who will be on board to watch the watchers? Over time you'll have to create more and more levels for protection to the point that there will be more armed school personnel and watchers than there are students in the schools.

June 18, 2013 at 10:38 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Sen, Durbin now says "we have D-linked border enforcement and pathway to citizenship" R's folded like a Rolled Gold Pretzel.

June 18, 2013 at 10:45 a.m.
Maximus said...

Damn DaytonSurvival of the fittest Darwin, Andrea Yates in this context? You are sick man. Seek medical help now! Get back on your Lexipro or pull the S&W out. The S&W will take you to hell faster. Say hello to Andrea, loser.

June 18, 2013 at 10:50 a.m.
chatt_man said...

I'm a conservative that doesn't necessarily think arming the teachers and staff at schools is the right thing to do (no pun intended), but I can sure as hell tell by this cartoon that liberals don't need any guns. They obviously don't know where to put them.

June 18, 2013 at 10:59 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Wow, maximus, are you really expecting to be taken seriously? Where's that scorched earth psyche? LMAO. You calling Darwin sick? Is Andrea Yates out of bounds? Off limits? You should take your own S&W advice.

June 18, 2013 at 11:06 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Rebus salutes the 698-853 Braves. Give us more Freudian food references, Wellfed Brimley!

June 18, 2013 at 11:13 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Maximus said...

"Damn DaytonSurvival of the fittest Darwin, Andrea Yates in this context? You are sick man. Seek medical help now! Get back on your Lexipro or pull the S&W out. The S&W will take you to hell faster. Say hello to Andrea, loser."

Since there's no fundamentalist Christians, jihad Muslims, Catholic priests, Popes, Bibi Netanyahu, or neo-cons living in my home, I'm safe from harm for now.

However, there's an Apocalyptic Christian nutters group that meets down the road where they can't wait to start Armageddon to bring Jesus floating down from the sky.

Plus, they home-school their little tykes with creationism, Christian Reconstruction, and being a gun-totin' warrior for God — much like the Hitler Youth but without the snappy uniforms. Jihadists for Jesus!

June 18, 2013 at 11:17 a.m.
alprova said...

There's no guarantee that if a teacher had only to draw that weapon, that he or she would become an instant hero.

I know that in the movies, everyone with a gun hits their target the first time, every time, but reality is far different. Adrenaline pumping through one's blood can cause people to panic and make all kinds of mistakes.

Here's another thing: What happens when a child IS shot, accidentally or purposely by a gun owned by a school employee?

The thought of a lawsuit should preclude any consideration of arming school employees.

June 18, 2013 at 11:20 a.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Watching you lefties whine is fun. Ban all guns!"

It's statements like that, that make people laugh when you claim to be a fence sitter.

No one has proposed banning all guns.

June 18, 2013 at 11:21 a.m.
miraweb said...

I just can't imagine what this forum is coming to.

Conservatives who want to be smart and reasonable about gun ownership?

Liberals who think that universal NSA surveillance is just as bad as the libertarians have been saying?

How is a poor candidate going to win an election if everyone starts agreeing and getting along all of the sudden.

Can't be having none of that, eh Jack?

June 18, 2013 at 11:22 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Dudely is a peculiar chap.

June 18, 2013 at 11:27 a.m.
conservative said...

I have never read of a mass shooting whether in a school, restaurant, credit union, church etc., where someone did not call for armed police to come and stop the mass killing.

The armed police who are miles and minutes away will either stop the killing or make their report after the killing is over.

Afterwards a police spokesman will address the public with their condolences.

The account where guns arrived too late is long.

There is the real world and then there is the Liberal world.

June 18, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Reeb... Did your Dad shake his head and walk away, often, when you were a boy? Ever wonder why?

June 18, 2013 at 11:50 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Yikes!. . . When and where does it all end? . . . One day it’s America arming rebels in foreign lands. . . Another day it’s America arming teachers in our schools. . . Tomorrow it’ll probably be America arming students so they can protect themselves against teachers. . . The next day it’ll be America arming school crossing guards, playground supervisors, school janitors and cafeteria workers so they can protect themselves against students. . . On and on and on. (sigh)

June 18, 2013 at 11:58 a.m.
dude_abides said...

conservative, should we put ear piercing, debilitating, deafening sirens in every school, which would render every living thing in the vicinity immobile? Then we could just drag the perps and would-have-been victims out of their fluid puddles and carry on with our "free" lives!

June 18, 2013 at 11:59 a.m.
dude_abides said...

mountainlaurel... is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just glad to shoot me?

June 18, 2013 at 12:02 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

conservative said... "There is the real world and then there is the Liberal world."

Then there's the world of gods, devils, witches, divine retribution, holy books, bigotry, intolerance, heavens, hells, creationism, anti-intellectualism, and religious wackos — that's called Conservative's World.

June 18, 2013 at 12:02 p.m.
jesse said...

Darwin, you as hung up on religion as con man is!

Dude has all these ideas about what not to do but has yet to offer an idea on how HE would solve the prob.Kinda like Al and ML!

June 18, 2013 at 12:13 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Con: We need a pain free world made up of Alpo's, Easy's, Dudely's, Nooga's, and as spiritual advisor, Dayton Darwin. No guns, jobs, TeaParty, or pain. Nothing but rainbow stew and on line skewls. Damn skippy.

June 18, 2013 at 12:15 p.m.
miraweb said...

Now, that's more like it!

Let's spice it up a bit, people! C'mon. Somebody say something totally outrageous! People are watching!

June 18, 2013 at 12:20 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Dude_abides asks: "mountainlaurel... is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just glad to shoot me?"

No, it’s just my passport and a few other things. . . I’m looking for a sane place to go. . . Some place where America hasn’t armed yet. . . Any suggestions?

June 18, 2013 at 12:26 p.m.
caddy said...

Maximus FTW "Barry The Welfare Pimp" !! LOL

June 18, 2013 at 12:27 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

So dayton. Are you a by gad intellectual?

June 18, 2013 at 12:29 p.m.
Maximus said...

Dayton although I have no idea what you are talking about, I would not recommend approaching the Christian nuts with your atheist doctrine.....especially unarmed! As Hank Jr. says "Country folks will survive." Damn I wish ole Bo Cephus was still on MNF. It ain't been the same since they kicked him off!

June 18, 2013 at 12:30 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

John_Proctor said...

Andrew, you have no dog in this hunt as you have lambasted "government schools" for years.

(Once you have established a history of being critical of a certain governmental function you have no further right to speak on the subject?)

Some Chicago schools have the same level of academic achievement Louisiana schools which teach creationism and call it science.

(Here is the pertinent Louisiana law governing “teach(ing) creationism and call(ing) it science”

C. A teacher shall teach the material presented in the standard textbook supplied by the school system and thereafter may use supplemental textbooks and other instructional materials to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review scientific theories in an objective manner, as permitted by the city, parish, or other local public school board unless otherwise prohibited by the State Board of Elementary and Secondary Education.

D. This Section shall not be construed to promote any religious doctrine, promote discrimination for or against a particular set of religious beliefs, or promote discrimination for or against religion or nonreligion.

(Note: The SCOTUS has ruled that teaching creationism as science is unconstitutional and if Louisiana was doing so it would have been exposed and terminated by now)

Religious fanatics such as yourself are never going to be satisfied until they can dictate religious dogma as curriculum and biblical stories as science in public schools.

(They are well within their rights to attempt such an action if they can muster the necessary citizen support but that support has been fading for decades now so what exactly is your realistic fear on this subject?)

June 18, 2013 at 12:30 p.m.
dude_abides said...

mountainlaurel... I would say Peru, but I keep seeing them in what look like fedoras. That can't be good. It'll take the Swiss a generation to get over maximus' visit, so that's a no go. Scandinavia seemed sane, until Breivik. I may apply for the Mars one way trip.

June 18, 2013 at 12:38 p.m.
dude_abides said...

rebus... What, exactly, is rainbow stew? Are you, like, picturing a pot of gold at the end with little nude leprechauns and carrots swimming around? LMAO

June 18, 2013 at 12:45 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

It's a true believer's miracle! Jesus has appeared again — Not on Velveeta, not on Ritz crackers, not on Jimmy Swaggert's subscription to Hustler, but here.

Look and prepare to Praise His Holy Name! Thanks to all who prayed for my redemption. I am blessed.

http://tinyurl.com/ljmu6q4

I'm now convinced in the reality of Christian fundamentalism as fact! Wonders and Signs of His Truth just as real as the Bible!

June 18, 2013 at 12:52 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nucanuck said...

Guns solve violence the way debt improves insolvency.


Guns are not the source, the prevention, or the cure for violence.

They can be a moderate deterrent, in the hands of law abiding citizens, to the violence that is a symptom of the cultural rot that pervades our society.

June 18, 2013 at 12:52 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said ...

If two armed gunmen were to enter any two schools, my first question would be to ask how it is that two armed men were able to enter two schools? Aren't schools these days basically locked down as a rule?

From Wiki:

At about 9:35 am, using his mother's Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle Lanza shot his way through a locked glass door at the front of the school.

June 18, 2013 at 1:01 p.m.
tifosi said...

Officials say a recently hired security officer left a firearm unattended in a Michigan charter school bathroom, local media reported.

School officials at The Chatfield School in Lapeer, Mich., told mlive.com the officer left an unloaded weapon in a restroom "for a few moments" on Monday. No children were put in danger or exposed to the handgun, school director Matt Young told mlive.com.

In a Jan. 7 newsletter, the school told families it had hired the school security officer, a veteran of the Lapeer County Sheriff Department who had retired.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/18/16590086-school-security-guard-in-michigan-leaves-gun-in-bathroom-officials-say?lite

June 18, 2013 at 1:10 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Dude_abide says: "I would say Peru, but I keep seeing them in what look like fedoras. That can't be good. It'll take the Swiss a generation to get over maximus' visit, so that's a no go. Scandinavia seemed sane, until Breivik. I may apply for the Mars one way trip."

Good thinking. . . I should have thought of this. . . The moon is closer, of course, but America has already landed there and there’re probably armed colonies, which is a no-go. . . But America hasn’t been to Mars, which means there’s still potential. . . It might very well be a perfect site for a sane new world. . . Lets hope the tickets are affordable.

June 18, 2013 at 1:31 p.m.
miraweb said...

Gen.Wesley Clark has penned a very interesting analysis of Syria.

". . .inaction is not an option. The bloodletting — more than 90,000 are estimated to have died so far — has deepened the region’s longstanding Shiite-Sunni struggle.

It has become a proxy war, with Sunni Arab states backed by the West, like Saudi Arabia and Qatar, challenging Iran’s reach to the Mediterranean via a proxy, Hezbollah, and Syria.

More: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/opinion/to-get-a-truce-be-ready-to-escalate.html?hp&_r=0

June 18, 2013 at 1:46 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"When and where does it all end? . . . One day it’s America arming rebels in foreign lands. . . Another day it’s America arming teachers in our schools. . . Tomorrow it’ll probably be America arming students so they can protect themselves against teachers. . . The next day it’ll be America arming school crossing guards, playground supervisors, school janitors and cafeteria workers so they can protect themselves against students. . . On and on and on. (sigh)" - mountainlaurel

Well said. It wasn't too long ago that the term "gun-free zone" was not even part of our vernacular. Most of us went about our daily lives, whether to work, school, the mall, the grocery store, the theater, or anywhere else, and we didn't think twice about the need to feel protected from some crazed mass killer. Practically everywhere we went was a "gun-free zone" but we didn't call it that because it was simply the norm. But thanks to the ubiquity of guns and the ease with which they can be obtained, even by disturbed, psychotic individuals who should not have access to them, our society has practically become a war zone. And rather than work to get at the root of the problem and reestablish a level of non-violent normalcy, the NRA, the gun manufacturers, and the gun nuts want to arm everyone to the teeth as the only recourse to the increasing gun violence. They actually seem to like having an excuse to carry their guns in public and exhibit their macho buffoonery for all to see.

Having said that, I am not averse to gun ownership and I don't label any and all gun owners as nuts. I own a gun myself but I keep it at home and have no desire whatsoever to carry a gun in public for protection. If it actually comes to the point of seeing more and more people strutting along the sidewalks or in the malls or theaters and stores with holstered guns, that is the day I will give up all hope for this country as a nation of peace and sanity (we're already teetering on the edge on both counts, I think) and seriously look for somewhere else to call home.

June 18, 2013 at 1:48 p.m.
dude_abides said...

mountainlaurel... The conservative elite will beat us to it. They'll change the Red Planet to another barely populated Red State! They'll have 4 wheel hill climbs on Olympus Mons. They'll legislate against us Earthians immigrating there, as well.

June 18, 2013 at 1:51 p.m.
patriot1 said...

nucanuck said...

Guns solve violence the way debt improves insolvency

That appears to make sense to "Shotgun" Biden

June 18, 2013 at 1:58 p.m.
tifosi said...

"Having said that, I am not averse to gun ownership and I don't label any and all gun owners as nuts. I own a gun myself but I keep it at home and have no desire whatsoever to carry a gun in public for protection. If it actually comes to the point of seeing more and more people strutting along the sidewalks or in the malls or theaters and stores with holstered guns, that is the day I will give up all hope for this country as a nation of peace and sanity (we're already teetering on the edge on both counts, I think) and seriously look for somewhere else to call home."

Agreed. A fringe element of gun owners are playing the "fear" card to push their agenda on all of us.

June 18, 2013 at 2:11 p.m.
tifosi said...

TILLAMOOK - A child found a loaded gun in a Tillamook movie theater during a junior high school field trip Wednesday morning to see "The Hobbit."

Tillamook Police Chief Terry Wright said it was a small, semi-automatic weapon with a round in the chamber and the safety off.

Had the student picked up the weapon and squeezed the trigger, Wright said, "it could have been catastrophic." But no one was hurt....

Early Wednesday evening, a local man came by the theater to ask if a gun had been found. He told Tillamook Police he noticed his gun was missing after he left the theater Tuesday night.

He tried to call the theater but got no answer, so he drove to the movie house in hopes the gun was in the theater's lost and found. He had a concealed handgun license for the weapon.

http://www.kgw.com/home/Loaded-gun-found-in-Tillamook-movie-theater-184156101.html

June 18, 2013 at 2:13 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

PATRIOT1, actually what Biden says makes sense. It is only you small minded conservatives who can't grasp the fact that this country and our government are not a business and do not function like one. The original stimulus did not work only because it was not nearly large enough. If we had spent money wisely, and more of it, in the first place, on things like job training, temporary government funded job creation, education, and infrastructure, we could have already been out of this economic funk we are still languishing in. You dim-witted regressives keep calling for more and more austerity and slashing the deficit at a time when we really do need more spending. The deficit is a long range problem that would more or less take care of itself if we focused on job growth and easing the burden of the poor and the middle class. The only thing that's going to create more jobs is when the working class and middle class have more money to spend. Austerity only creates more austerity and digs the hole we're in deeper and deeper.

June 18, 2013 at 2:23 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Retired General Wesley Clark favors intervening with one group of religious fundamentalists to kill another group of religious fundamentalists. That always works for fat-cat political generals that sell weapons that increases the military/politician/corporation portfolios.

Now the US wants to negotiate with the Taliban. Can the US military government negotiate the dead service personnel, negotiate to restore the amputated arms and legs, restore the eyesight, negotiate the mental problems of the soldiers, restore the lives of Afghani collateral damage?

So the "Never Negotiate with Terrorists" policy of the US government has been fulfilled?

To those who were maimed, died, and destroyed, by US imperialism, neo-cons, war-mongering politicians, and the US Mercenary forces with the cheers of the military/corporate community, please answer this.

Was it worth it to invade, to occupy, to wage a total war so that your sons and daughters, husbands and wives, friends and family could sacrifice for lies, for politicians, for Halliburton and Lockheed?

Will you be willing to do it again for nothing? For a failed government? Willing to be cannon-fodder for cash? Trade your life for a Dick Cheney, John McCain, Lindsey Graham? Give your life for Wesley Clark's portfolio?

If yes, go to Syria. But you're dying for all the wrong reasons. Wave the flag while you still have two arms; look at your children while you have eyes, and take a walk while you have two legs.

But you're not doing this for your country, your family, or your neighbors. You're doing it for a government's greed, power, and money.

It that the cause you're willing to die for?

June 18, 2013 at 2:45 p.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

Congress at the behest of Charlie Wilson armed the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets 3 decades ago , now we fight the Taliban. We armed Saddam as a counter to the Iranian revolution and helped him fight a 10 year war before he lost his usefulness. We lost 180 Marines helping with a civil war in Lebanon. Gaddafi renounced terrorism , gave up his weapons programs and courted the international community only to die in the streets like a rat in a hole. We got Benghazi for our efforts. Now we are supposed to believe that arming the correct group of rebels will somehow reshape the middle east in a favorable way? Been there done that. Why will it be any different this time? We are also to believe that after 2 years of fighting and momentum shifting to his side, victory almost in hand, that Assad has decided to use small amounts of chemical weapons so we have no choice but to intervene.....by arming the people that want to kill us... ........http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1312291457832.jpg....... (love the pic LIMRIC)

June 18, 2013 at 3:17 p.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

Maybe Bono was onto something back in the 90s great song off of a great albumhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JjDDg...

June 18, 2013 at 3:18 p.m.
jesse said...

Darwin pulls up a nugget every once in a while!!

June 18, 2013 at 3:30 p.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyqBx... noone is talking about banning guns! We just need our children to think differently about them.

June 18, 2013 at 3:42 p.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

I was trying to watch the NSA hearings today but the anchors talked over the testimony and told me what they were saying! (foxnews) so I turned to CNN and got alot of info about an abortion bill.... But fortunatly for me Ron Paul will be on Cavuto at 4p so at least the one true statesman left will tell it like it is.

June 18, 2013 at 3:45 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Damn. We even have people on here that can't find a place America hasn't harmed. I wish they would find one... and go the hell to it. I'm not proud of everything everyone in my family has done (or America) but I don't talk bad about them and look for another family to belong to.

America has done a lot of good for the world too. It's a shame you're too partisan or too stupid to realize that. Good luck on your hunt for Utopia. I sincerely hope you find it and go the hell to it. Nobody is holding you back from leaving.

June 18, 2013 at 3:54 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Armed, Einstein.

June 18, 2013 at 5 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Oops, I guess that's what happens when you try to work and check in from time to time. Thanks...Dude

Probably still applies to some in this group.

June 18, 2013 at 5:14 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Harsh on my part, I now see.

June 18, 2013 at 5:29 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

I do not feel that arming teachers is going to make kids any safer, nor will it make teachers any safer, nor do I care to argue with anyone over my opinion. Everyone has one and no amount of discussion is likely to sway anyone from their own opinion.


I thought you were the type.

You know someone that has an opinion they refuse to defend and making claims that there is little to no chance that there can be information presented that would alter that viewpoint.

June 18, 2013 at 6:37 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Dude_Abides notes: “The conservative elite will beat us to it. They'll change the Red Planet to another barely populated Red State! They'll have 4 wheel hill climbs on Olympus Mons. They'll legislate against us Earthians immigrating there, as well.”

Rats! You get my hopes up just to crush them a few hours later. (Sigh) . . . Oh well, I suppose we could put an ad in the international personals. . . Something like:

DESPARATELY SEEKING SANE NATION: Good law-abiding citizens willing to pay taxes seek sane democratic nation with sane leaders. Nation must promote sanity and general welfare of the citizenry; work to secure justice, domestic tranquility, and blessings of liberty; ensure freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly and petition. Oligarchs, warmongering neo-cons, NRA gunslingers, and sneaky big brother types need not apply.

June 18, 2013 at 6:44 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Noogs 2:41p. Nice one. Did that tax your mind?

June 18, 2013 at 7:28 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Here are the people that were permitted to bring guns onto school property prior to the new bill allowing teachers to be armed:

(1) Member of the military when acting under orders requiring them to carry weapons;

(2) Civil officers of the United States;

(3) Officers and soldiers of the militia and the national guard when called into actual service;

(4) Law enforcement officers;

(5) Any pupils who are members of the reserve officers training corps or pupils enrolled in a course of instruction or members of a club or team, and who are required to carry arms or weapons in the discharge of their official class or team duties;

(6) Any private police employed by the administration or board of trustees of any public or private institution of higher education; and

(7) Registered security guards.

I really can’t see adding teachers to that list ... do you?

June 18, 2013 at 7:28 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nooga said...

I have a nephew in Afghanistan and if his father were still alive he would have never allowed it. He's Army, but goes out with the Marines, he's a diesel mechanic so if something breaks he fixes it. He has two degrees from UT and is 27 years old I will never understand why he went.


Really ... two degrees and diesel mechanic in Afghanistan is the best he can do? I guess it’s true what they say about the terrible employment situation during the present administration.

June 18, 2013 at 7:33 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nooga said...

An idiot pretty much tried to run me off the road between Chattanooga and Cleveland resulting in a fit of road rage for him and me. Fortunately I missed, he lived, and I've never carried or kept a gun in my car since.

(I especially enjoyed the part where you referred to the other person as an idiot. However I think we could have guessed what a bad aim you are capable of on many levels)

On a different note my daughter was grooming her horse on Saturday.

(Is that what the walking horse owners call it now)

June 18, 2013 at 7:45 p.m.
dude_abides said...

mountainlaurel... The ghost of Hearst will swoop down in the form of a Vambie (vampire zombie) and wreak havoc with our communications to kill our ads.

Maybe we could get Atlas to Shrug again, and rename the country while all the great industrialists are at their retreat fornicating (most of Ayn's characters were Randy)! We could call it Supernaturaldelightland.

June 18, 2013 at 7:50 p.m.
fairmon said...

All teachers should not be armed. Unless you have been in a shoot or be shot situation you may not be as qualified to opine on this issue as you think..No rehearsal or "do overs" in those situations. There are no retakes and slow motion views like journalist do when they tell us exactly what should have been done. Select teachers and other school employees with strict criteria and extensive training....BTW pay them better also.

Most teachers would be more like Mayberry's Barney Fife instead of Rambo. They need to be defended from some students behavior.

June 18, 2013 at 8:40 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I see Nooga as a tush hog. Easy to see him piling out of his over-sized F-350 with .357 blazin. Rockin his wife-beater and inked up arms.

June 18, 2013 at 8:58 p.m.
alprova said...

Elijah Cummings releases 205 pages of transcripts, proving that the IRS scandal was all hogwash, embarrassing Darrell Issa for doing exactly what he accused him of doing last week.

The IRS investigation, in light of this new evidence, has been proven to be nothing more than a big dud, and Tea-Partiers can all go pounce salt.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/06/18/rep-elijah-cummings-releases-a-full-irs-interview-transcript/

June 18, 2013 at 10:41 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Nooga. You're just a punk. Plain and simple

June 18, 2013 at 10:48 p.m.
chet123 said...

TEACHERS WITH GUNS?????...ASK PROFESSORS AND TEACHERS AT THE UNIVERSITY ALA AT HUNTSVILLE ON GUNS CARRYING BY TEACHERS(HARVARD GRADUATE)......

THIS IS WHERE BRADLEY COUNTY SCHOOL ARE HEADING!!!!!..MAYBE ITS A SUPRISE TO THE GOP/TEA-PARTY...BUT TEACHERS HAVE MENTAL ISSUES TOO.....

THIS FOOLISHNESS WILL COME TO AN END ONCE A CHILD IS ACCIDENTALLY KILLED BY A TEACHER........

A MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR CIVIL SUIT WILL REMEDY THIS CRAZINESS.....AND THE SAME FOOLS PRESENTING THIS PEA-BRAIN IDEA WILL BE SOMEWHERE HIDING...AS THEY ALWAYS DO!! HA HA HA HA

June 19, 2013 at 3:50 p.m.
chet321 said...

COMMENTInG WITH CAPS????? I CAN'T MaKE A POINT So I USE CAPS!

June 23, 2013 at 12:03 p.m.
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