published Wednesday, March 13th, 2013

Obesity

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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acerigger said...

Damn them libs!If I wanna have a stroke,that's up to me,mooshelle or oweblama can't say shlt about it!

March 13, 2013 at 12:56 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Let people pick their own poison. Whether it's soft drinks, cigarettes, alcohol or drugs, some people will abuse themselves to their own detriment with or without laws. Those are the weak and the weak shall (often) inheirit the earth (a little sooner than the rest). Laws against poor judgement are usually a waste of legislative effort.

March 13, 2013 at 1:56 a.m.
fairmon said...

What might be more important those in NY paying their leaders to do. They should be thanking them for tackling the large drink business.

March 13, 2013 at 2:32 a.m.
fairmon said...

Who can afford the 32 ouncer with NY taxes. Drinking two 16 ounce with free refills is less harmful to ones health? Brilliant mayor, simply brilliant. CNBC article..For all the talk you hear from Capitol Hill about running government more like a business, Congress has a retirement plan that would make any Fortune 500 executive blush. Members can retire younger, having contributed fewer of their own dollars, than almost any worker in the country—even more than the generous terms other federal workers get.

March 13, 2013 at 6:12 a.m.
anniebelle said...

I say let them drink and smoke themselves out of this life. They're just a drain on our healthcare system. Same with the gun nuts -- let 'em shoot each other up in their church parking lots --good way to cull the herd. I know there's collateral damage, but what the hey, eventually they'll all wind up in the same shoot'em up and it'll be a circle jerk. Really people, in this neo-con world, it's the survival of the ones with the biggest guns or the most money. Get a grip on the reality of this 'wunerful' country we find ourselves in because of the NRA/GOP/XTIANS and various other 'hate' groups that have run amock in this nation.

March 13, 2013 at 6:18 a.m.
EaTn said...

Is this a version of the Bloomberg Saturday-night special? A half-gallon sugared pop with a gun-barrel straw. Shouldn't a mayor of a major city like NY lead the charge against two of the leading causes of public health costs?

March 13, 2013 at 6:50 a.m.
anniebelle said...

I'm sure this redneck state full of fat morons will soon follow their leaders. Mississippi is a state filthy with fat people. Generally, your poorer states are your fatter states because you can buy tasty stuff by the bucket load on the cheap thanks to corporate America. Mississippi pretty much is the widescreen picture evidence of this: it's got the highest poverty rate, the lowest income, and the highest rate of obesity (or, according to another survey, nearly the highest). The legislature there, seeing that the mighty mayor of New York City, Michael Bloomberg, was trying to limit the amount of sugary drinks people could have to a mere pint at a time, decided that no way, no how were they gonna let their localities do the same. In fact, the legislature, House and Senate, overwhelmingly voted to ban any "political subdivision" not the state (or federal government) from enacting any regulation on its own. They even nicknamed it the "Anti-Bloomberg Law."

March 13, 2013 at 7:28 a.m.
hambone said...

I'm confused !

Is this cartoon about big sugary drinks, gun control or what color smoke is coming out of the chimly!

March 13, 2013 at 8:09 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Freedom and big government do not mix.

Bennett is a good barometer for how "progressives" think. They want government to be responsible for your health care and as a natural consequence they expect to be able to get involved in all personal decisions that they think affect your health.

March 13, 2013 at 8:09 a.m.
fairmon said...

BRP..it isn't limited to health care, they do what Nannies do. They think they know what is best for everyone and think that those in their charge are not yet capable of making decisions that are in their best interest.

March 13, 2013 at 9:06 a.m.
Leaf said...

The New York law was deemed arbitrary and capricious by the NY Supreme Court, but Bloomberg is going to appeal. I agree with the court.

Leaving aside for the moment whether it's too meddlesome, I doubt it would be very effective. If someone wants x amount of sugar, they will just buy two drinks, or an extra candy bar.

March 13, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.
conservative said...

There is a reason we have big governments i.e. a Washington Father and state fathers (a poor substitute for God our heavenly father) and that is because most people are Liberal and want their Washington Father to provide for their needs and wants.

However, resources, i.e. tax revenues are limited so the Washington Father must set rules and parameters on those the Washington Father cares for.

It is not complicated.

Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude. Alexis de Tocqueville

March 13, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.
chatt_man said...

Life must be tough being as unhappy and aggravated as anniebelle sounds. Pass judgement on everyone else, honey... if that's what it takes to make you feel better about yourself.

March 13, 2013 at 9:43 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

fairmon said... "BRP..it isn't limited to health care"

I agree, but health care seems to be the main topic at hand. "Progressives" love to be taken care of. They will claim that they are just looking out for the disadvantaged but in reality they fear taking responsibility for themselves.

March 13, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I'm a "progressive" and I have always taken care of myself. Most liberals I know are the same. Please watch the stereotyping.

March 13, 2013 at 10:10 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

lkeithlu said... "I'm a "progressive" and I have always taken care of myself. Most liberals I know are the same. Please watch the stereotyping."

Do you support mandatory Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment Insurance, and/or Obamacare?

March 13, 2013 at 10:34 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Yes. Do I like the way they are handled? Not always. Would I prefer that everyone could work for decent wages, get affordable comprehensive medical care, and a good retirement package so that none of these were necessary? Of course. But our country has many people who cannot provide for themselves, for a variety of reasons not all of their own making. Are these programs abused? Yes. Are they expensive? Yes. Can we eliminate them? Not if you care about the basic quality of life that every human citizen of the country deserves.

Would it be that we have a perfect country, where poverty is rare and temporary, that preventative care was the norm, that people didn't have children they could not afford, and no one got sick or injured. If the numbers were low enough that the churches and non-profits could handle them all, that would be great.

The key to reducing the burden on taxpayers is reducing the number. Cut waste, cut fraud, improve the economy, create jobs (yes, I'd rather have people working for the government than doing nothing and getting welfare). The system is not perfect, but no system is. But to punish those that are hurting because we don't like paying taxes is wrong. To punish those that are hurting because the programs need to be streamlined and improved is wrong.

The point of my comment is this: When you stereotype (all progressives are leaches, all conservatives are neandertals) it accomplishes nothing. It is not true, and it does not move us closer to solutions for our very real problems.

March 13, 2013 at 10:51 a.m.
conservative said...

Good morning Ike,

One cannot use an evil action with reference to a good intention. Thomas Aquinas

March 13, 2013 at 10:53 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Go outside and play, conservative. The grown-ups are talking.

March 13, 2013 at 10:54 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

lkeithlu said... "Yes"

Is it not fair to say then that you want the government to provide security for your retirement, healthcare and employment status?

March 13, 2013 at 11:15 a.m.
jesse said...

Ike, i don't all ways agree w/you BUT i think maybe you are the most SANE person that hangs on here!

March 13, 2013 at 11:18 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Yes, that's fair. I hope that I and most people don't need them. Haven't yet. But life can be surprising, and I have seen people who planned for everything still get nailed. It's cruel, but life isn't fair. I am grateful to be a citizen of the US, knowing that if things went to hell, I would be less likely to lose my home, starve, or go without health care.

I have paid loyally into insurance policies for decades. Car, house, life, health. I will not likely recoup that money, unless the unthinkable happens. At that point I will collect much more than I put in. If not, then a few unfortunate others have collected some of what I have put in. These are abused too. I have seen expectant mothers who are probably in my same health care company smoking. That will cost me, and is preventable. People not using seatbelts. Drinking too much. It's not fair that I have to pay for others' poor habits, but there's nothing for it.

That's very kind, jesse. Most people think I'm nuts.

March 13, 2013 at 11:22 a.m.
patriot1 said...

For the political party that likes to proclaim "choice", they sure do like programs that have a common theme.....mandatory. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, all mandatory. How about programs that are the biggest drivers of our national debt...wanna guess?

March 13, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

patriot, we all have to fund these programs. There are some obligations we all have as citizens. No one is saying that these programs don't need improving. They do. Obamacare is not mandatory, but having health insurance is. We all benefit if everyone has basic health insurance. Is a individual mandate the way to do it? Maybe, maybe not, but that part if the National Health Care Act was put forth by conservatives, so there must be some reason.

I don't like it when I work hard and my taxes are wasted. But I refuse to accept that participating in these programs should be optional. I don't think the answer for the US is European-style socialism, as that has its problems too, and I don't want to pay 75% of my wages in taxes. What I am hoping for are lawmakers who have real solutions to make necessary programs BETTER instead of a) accepting them the way they are b) expanding them or c) getting the average citizen pissed off enough to shut them down with talk of the "47%". (which by the way is BS)

March 13, 2013 at 11:36 a.m.
Leaf said...

Ikeithlu says it well.

March 13, 2013 at 11:39 a.m.
just_wondering said...

I think that part of the problem with our nanny state is the system of justice we have. If a young man commits a non-violent felony at say the age of 25 for possession of a controlled substance. He does his time pays his fines and completes whatever public service the judge deems necessary.He still,no matter what he does, will probably never be able to get much of a job to lift himself out of a poverty status. Background checks will make sure he never gets a decent job or even a decent education.Most of his rights as a U.S. citizen are forever lost. I personally think that a non-violent felon should have his/her slate wiped clean if after say ten years of no more violations. As it currently stands the system is rigged to keep these people forever on the government dole because they have no other recourse. Even if they go to college and get a degree they cannot get a job because of their one mistake.

March 13, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Life must be tough being as unhappy and aggravated as anniebelle sounds. Pass judgement on everyone else, honey... if that's what it takes to make you feel better about yourself." - chatt_man

Oh gimme a break. Pass judgment? I've seen plenty of your posts, chatt_man. You're just as good as anybody about passing judgment. Anniebelle simply tells it like it is. I'm in total agreement with her. I get fed up with having to try to make sense out of the nonsense that pours out of the mouths of you gun-loving, flag-waving, science-denying, government-hating ass kissers/worshipers of the rich who live in your bizarro world where you pat yourselves on the back for being such "rugged individualists" and are completely oblivious to and unconcerned about the plights of others. I really like what she said here: "Get a grip on the reality of this 'wunerful' country we find ourselves in because of the NRA/GOP/XTIANS and various other 'hate' groups that have run amock in this nation." So true. This county is quickly going down the toilet because we are caught in the stranglehold of knuckle-dragging cretins who not only have no vision for the future but want only to take us backward into the Dark Ages politically, spiritually, and intellectually. I say let McDonalds and BK and the like serve their sodas in barrels if they want to and let all the fat pigs get even fatter, 'til they become a huge blob of gelatinous fat, too mountainous to move. And let's see if we can't get our commercialized food industry to double up on the hydrogenated fat, corn syrup, and salt that go into our foods. All that crap is already in excess, but what the hey, pile it on even more. And heaven forbid our government should dare to have a say in the matter. This is Amurika afterall. Hell, we're proud of our stupidity and obesity here. That's what individual freedom is all about, right? Now, let's go to the firing range and shoot up a couple hundred dollars of ammo and then go to Mickey D's and get super-sized, whaddaya say? Only in Amurika!

March 13, 2013 at 11:58 a.m.
patriot1 said...
March 13, 2013 at 11:58 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Jean Valjean would agree with you, just_wondering, as do I.

I also agree that lkiethlu not only illustrates her points with poignant accuracy, but as jesse observed, seems to be the most sane person that frequents these forums.

March 13, 2013 at 12:01 p.m.
conservative said...

lkeithlu said... patriot, we all have to fund these programs. There are some obligations we all have as citizens.

==========

Baloney! Millions don't fund these programs. Millions that do get more in benefits than they pay in taxes. Much of the cost of these programs is funded on borrowed money so their failure is not readily seen and will be paid for by the innocent i.e. children not old enough to vote and children not yet born if some are to be allowed to be born at all.

You Liberals are not good citizens.

You Liberals need to leave Fairyland.

March 13, 2013 at 12:05 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike said,

"Obamacare is not mandatory, but having health insurance is."

More baloney! Millions will not have to pay for their health insurance or their healtcare will be heavily subsidized by taxpayers and borrowed money driving our country into further debt and increasing the burden on future children.

March 13, 2013 at 12:19 p.m.
limric said...

An OK effort today Clay.

Soda (and fast food in general) is a treat as far as I’m concerned, not a staple. Jesus this is a stupid debate!

Do soft drink manufactures and fast food market sh!tty junk? Yea, of course. It is however your choice NOT to consume it. And as a parent your duty to NOT feed your kids crap! If everyone were ever so slightly better educated, this wouldn’t even be an issue. If nobody bought oil barrel sized drinks, they soon disappear. As a youngster, we weren’t allowed our sodas (which were a treat) while dining out because my parents knew we’d all swill it down before the meal came. Simple isn’t it? Personal and parental responsibility…..what a novel idea!

I for one am thrilled that the megalomaniac Bloomberg’s Big Gulp ban was thrown to the curb. Ya wanna help with rampant obesity Mr. Mayor, legalize cocaine – have y’ever seen a fat coke/crack head?

Hmm... But then again, he’s now free to focus more attention on another of his equally idiotic efforts, ‘Mayors Against Illegal Guns’.

March 13, 2013 at 12:47 p.m.
dao1980 said...

Aaaaaand.. Connie is the least sane... of anybody, anywhere.

Somebody get this man a "bathroom wall" to scribble on! STAT!!

March 13, 2013 at 12:49 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

lkeithlu said... "Yes, that's fair."

Then I think it is fair to say that you want government (and insurance) to take care of you (in the event that something goes wrong in your life) and that you value that protection more than freedom. Whenever you contract with anyone, especially under mandatory government programs, there are stipulations that limit your life. This will become much more apparent to everyone as government continues to expand its role.

I take a different approach, living well within my means and saving aggressively for the unexpected. To me, leaning on insurance and government is like playing the lottery, on average everyone loses. If you do have to use one of those insurance blankets it is quite likely that it will not be you who will "collect much more than (you) put in" but you will just become a conduit to enrich the industries that have cropped up around personal tragedy, at the trough of social guarantees.

I have no beef with your approach, except that you demand everyone participate and feed the beast. We could all live in harmony if the insecure were allowed to buy their security while free men were allowed to function in a way that they could take on full responsibility for themselves and their actions, along with the freedom to keep what is theirs, without being forced to pay into the former.

March 13, 2013 at 12:55 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike said :

"We all benefit if everyone has basic health insurance"

More baloney! And deceit as well. Health care and health insurance are not the same.

I have a relative who had no health insurance. He had open heart surgery after years of alcohol and tobacco use. He paid not one dime for his operation, hospital care, prescription drugs etc. Again, he had no health insurance. We don't let people die in this country because they don't have health insurance.

I have a friend whose brother went through the same. He has a home on the river and he and his wife get free dental care when needed, free prescription drugs and both still smoke and drink.

Do not be bamboozled people, no health insurance does not mean no health care

March 13, 2013 at 12:55 p.m.
anniebelle said...

No, chattman I write rants precisely for morons such as you who have no clue what's going on in this country and how they are playing us against one another -- divide and conquer -- that's the repukes plan and has been ever since Saint Ronnie started his hatefilled campaign out in Mississippi. You people are disgusting. You're pathetic at best, and at worst, you're pious, self-centered, hypocritic and evil.

March 13, 2013 at 1:18 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike said :

"Is a national mandate the way to do it? Maybe, maybe not, but that part if the National Health Care Act was put forth by conservatives, so there must be some reason."

More baloney! More deceit! Obamination care got no Republican votes. Obamination care was passed by Liberals and Demoncrats who wanted and voted for the mandate and now Ike wants to blame Conservatives for something she wanted and voted for.

March 13, 2013 at 1:22 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Wow, anniebelle, stay away from sharp objects for a while. Anybody for a sharp objects ban? We have one on the edge here. It looks like it's worth saying again, anniebell... judge everyone else, if that's what it takes to make you feel better about yourself.

March 13, 2013 at 1:37 p.m.
Leaf said...

Big Ridge,

I applaud your approach to living within your means and saving aggressively. I live by that philosophy as well and think more people should.

You say you don't have insurance. If you are worth several million and in addition have a house that is paid for and an untouchable source of income, then good for you. Self-insuring is a fine choice.

However, if you don't have a family inheritance it takes most people a couple of decades to reach that point even if they are highly paid professionals. Would you advocate that young people who don't have a large nest egg go without insurance?

Unless they are willing to refuse medical care and die young, I think purchasing health insurance is their duty to the rest of us. When it comes down to it, most people who don't have health insurance won't refuse care when they need it.

And before you call me some sort of liberal perjorative, if you think about it my stance is conservative, by the original definition.

March 13, 2013 at 1:38 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike said :

"I don't like it when I work hard and my taxes are wasted. But I refuse to accept that participating in these programs should be optional."

More baloney! If she voted she voted for Owebama twice so she knew her tax dollars would be wasted.

She is opposed to voluntary programs simply because she has or will not pay in taxes more than she has or will receive in benefits

.Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.Frederic Bastiat

March 13, 2013 at 1:40 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Only someone who lives under a rock would not know that the mandate was originally a conservative concept, agreed upon by Republicans. But wait...con-man doesn't live under a rock, he just has his head buried in the Bible. Oh well, living under a rock, head buried in the Bible...same difference.

March 13, 2013 at 1:40 p.m.
degage said...

annie, your God Obama is the only one playing the Devide and conquer game and anyone with any brains left would see that.

March 13, 2013 at 1:45 p.m.
EaTn said...

BRP--I assume you also are opposed to veterans retirement and health care.

March 13, 2013 at 1:55 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Rickaroo, what would we do if we didn't have all you that know so much trying to take care of the rest of us? Thanks for secretly having by best interest at heart, I won't tell anyone.

March 13, 2013 at 1:55 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

There is nothing sensible about what BRP said. Of course it's only common sense for everyone to live within their means but for anyone to view health insurance as something that only weak people "lean" on, as if everyone could prepare for any and all disasters, accidents, and illnesses if only they were more conscientious and frugal, is downright idiotic. Of course we "lean" on health insurance - it's one of life's necessities! Just because he has been fortunate enough that he has not had a debilitating and protracted illness drain his savings, he isolates himself in his bubble and turns a blind eye to those who have such calamitous things happen every day in America. Things happen all the time for which nobody has enough money to cover the costs. That is why health insurance and universal health care are so important and nobody should be denied access to it on account its being prohibitively expensive for the average person. Most people in this country are living paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford to put money away. They are working and contributing to society, yet because health insurance is something only the wealthy can afford, they are somehow not worthy of having insurance? Anybody is an arrogant pig if they think that health insurance is an earned privilege and not a right.

March 13, 2013 at 2 p.m.
jesse said...

If folk realized how moronic,stupid and generally arzholery lookin they make themselves look when they call someone stupid,a moron or such they might think twice before they use that language!

March 13, 2013 at 2 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Why is it you guys have a hard time saying or writing America? With all it's problems, we still have a great country. Is there something wrong with you guys that you can't spell? I see someone that spells it Amurika praising the other one that says it's a 'wunerful' country. Sorry to break it to you, but you are the pitiful ones...

March 13, 2013 at 2:02 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Jesse, I'm so glad we have you moderating the conversation here. What would we do without your polite, civil, cool, calm, unbiased demeanor to set the tone for us and bring us all back into line? Jesse, the only sane one on this forum. His repetitive "idjit" is quite alright but at least he never stoops to calling anyone stupid or a moron. That would be undignified, wouldn't it?

March 13, 2013 at 2:06 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Leaf, I do have some insurance as required by law or provided “free” by my employer. When I can find a legal way to avoid insurance and save the money instead I will do so. For example, I have auto liability insurance because it is required by law. The newest car has 130,000 miles on it and I fully expect to get at least twice that before it is retired. A separate savings account already contains enough to replace that car with a new one almost twice over, funded mainly by insurance savings and mileage allowances from work. It is funny how when you know you have to replace something out of your own pocket how well you take care of it and how careful you are to protect it. The reason that most of us think we need millions of dollars of protection is because of the parasitic legal liability system in this country. It seems to me many more people could self-insure if we did not have to worry about paying lawyers. Our liability system is one of the biggest burdens facing our country today. It is unfortunate that almost everyone we send to Washington is a lawyer. Look what that crowd has created for us!

March 13, 2013 at 2:14 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Chatt_man, there are far greater ways of showing disrespect to A-M-E-R-I-C-A. You libertarian/teabagging/neo-con righties do it all the time with your backassward thinking of entitlement and privilege for the rich and your disdain for the common good. As long as we are stagnating in this god-awful muck created by today's teabagging Republicans it is Amurika. If we can somehow return to sanity and stop the madness of trickle-down and austerity and irrational government hating and Bible idiocy and gun craziness, then it will be A-M-E-R-I-C-A.

March 13, 2013 at 2:20 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike said :

"What I am hoping for are lawmakers who have real solutions to make necessary programs BETTER"

More baloney! More deception!

Virtually all programs are "necessary" in the eyes of Liberals. Therefore it is "necessary" that they vote for Liberals who will not only sustain "necessary" programs but increase in number "necessary" programs."

Ike puts in caps BETTER simply because she feels these "necessary" programs will make her life better at the expense of someone else.

With all of the baloney Ike is trying to sell, she must have stock in Kraft Foods, makers of Oscar Mayer baloney.

March 13, 2013 at 2:27 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

EaTn said... "I assume you also are opposed to veterans retirement and health care."

If we were not continuously in a state of war and maintaining a police force for the world it would all be much more manageable. As it is we subsidize other nations that are not so involved and allow them to spend extravagantly on social programs. That part of it seems like a misappropriation of our tax dollars. As we try to copy the programs that were made possible by our “generosity” we are going to discover that we can afford neither. Don't look for someone to come running to subsidize our social programs by paying for our defense.

March 13, 2013 at 2:27 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

BRP, if everyone had the resources I am sure they would self insure. I agree that the system itself is to blame, but that would be cold comfort if I were in an accident and was found liable. Not only would my own losses (car + physical) be bad, but I could be cleaned out of all that I had as well. I am not talking about collision coverage (I keep that as long as I am required, with a high deductible, and then dump it)

AS for health, I think there is a lot of argument both for and against the national act. A lot is due to misrepresentation of it-for states that already provide alternatives for those not covered, the national act does very little. We all have our anecdotes about insurance-we all know people who have lost their coverage, of even those who are covered but a catastrophic event maxed them out. I have seen the insurance companies play sneaky games to trip you up; the poor, those with less education and the elderly are hurt by these, often without them knowing they have been cheated. The actual cost is hidden; bills sent to insurance do not really reflect what hospitals and doctors pay. It's a complicated system.

My spouse went on Medicare. No choice in that. He has supplemental insurance. I lost access to his work-related health care because I could not pay the $1000 per month to remain on it. I shopped around and found a $5000 deductible policy that was much more affordable, so unless something serious happens, I pay for everything out of pocket. That means sometimes I do my own stitches in-house (not fun, but it saves a lot of money. Scotch helps a little)

Everyone should pay something for health coverage, and everyone should pay a little for each visit and prescription. I've been health conscious all my life, but now an acutely aware of how my decisions can cost me. I use protective eyewear more, bicycle helmet more, wash my hands more, shop around for services such as lab work and screening (if you pay out of pocket you can get some great deals!) and save for the big tests in advance.

I am fortunate to have never been cleaned out by a disaster. But I know enough people that have; and I know many more that are one accident or illness away from losing everything. It is a horrible thing to have over one's head, especially when you have children. Our great nation is better than this.

March 13, 2013 at 2:31 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

PS, until you start acting like an adult, conservative, I will ignore you. Go back to your sandbox.

March 13, 2013 at 2:32 p.m.
alprova said...

conserva5tive wrote: "More baloney! More deceit! Obamination care got no Republican votes. Obamination care was passed by Liberals and Demoncrats who wanted and voted for the mandate and now Ike wants to blame Conservatives for something she wanted and voted for."

Sir...mandated health care insurance was proposed by Republicans long before the Democrats took up the cause. I believe that it was none other than Newt Gingrich who first proposed it while he was Speaker of the House.

As soon as Democrats took up the cause, or more specifically, the moment that President Obama endorsed it, every single Republican did a complete 180 degree turn on the issue.

Republicans are all for something that makes one a little more responsible for their lives, until that is, a Democrat joins them in unison.

March 13, 2013 at 2:55 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Baloney! Millions don't fund these programs. Millions that do get more in benefits than they pay in taxes. Much of the cost of these programs is funded on borrowed money so their failure is not readily seen and will be paid for by the innocent i.e. children not old enough to vote and children not yet born if some are to be allowed to be born at all."

People who depend on social programs for their existence, whenever changes are proposed to them, pay close attention to all the little details. People who receive such benefits, but who could easily live without them, scream bloody murder whenever changes are proposed.

You offer your comments as if there are not Republican cheerleaders that ever draw a dime in public assistance or benefits provided by social programs.

You're a moron.

"You Liberals are not good citizens."

You're hardly in a position to pass judgment. As a man who claims to follow Jesus, you shouldn't be making such judgments.

"You Liberals need to leave Fairyland."

Well I'll tell you what. Let's you and I have a foot race to see who gets to the pearly gates first.

March 13, 2013 at 3:06 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike, don't give up that big boat you own down there in or around the Keys. And that fuel bill, don't worry about that the taxpayer can subsidize your lifestyle with your "free" health care.

No siree Bob, you will not do without as long as you can take advantage of more and "BETTER" government programs paid by someone else.

March 13, 2013 at 3:10 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Grow up, conservative.

March 13, 2013 at 3:19 p.m.
alprova said...

"More baloney! And deceit as well. Health care and health insurance are not the same."

Everything is deceit from where you sit these days. You are the least tolerant of anything that you disagree with.

"I have a relative who had no health insurance. He had open heart surgery after years of alcohol and tobacco use. He paid not one dime for his operation, hospital care, prescription drugs etc. Again, he had no health insurance. We don't let people die in this country because they don't have health insurance."

But...who do you think paid for that bill? Under the current system, unless it is life or death, people are turned away all the time for surgeries, unless a minimal amount if paid up-front.

You're extremely naive to think that people in this nation who do not have health care insurance do not die as a result.

"I have a friend whose brother went through the same. He has a home on the river and he and his wife get free dental care when needed, free prescription drugs and both still smoke and drink."

But of course. The "I have a friend" line...

"Do not be bamboozled people, no health insurance does not mean no health care"

No health care? One can present themselves to an Emergency Room for treatment, and in many cases, the patient is stabilized, then kicked to the curb to follow up with their family physician.

But what if one does not have a family physician? People die every day of the week for a lack of knowing where to obtain low-cost or free health care, if they do not have the means to afford a doctor's visit.

Your knowledge of the issues that many people have in dealing with health care as it exists in this nation, is right on par with your knowledge of the Bible.

March 13, 2013 at 3:19 p.m.
conservative said...

Alprova,

You call me idiot and moron and then accuse me of judging. It always comes down to that with you Liberals doesn't it?

Race to the pearly gates. You opened the door now you tell me how you are going to inherit the Kingdom of God.

I predict that you will not but will say it is none of my business or that is between you and your god.

Forget your Mormon indoctrination, Joseph Smith died in his sins, he did not rise again and he did not get his own planet and neither will you.

March 13, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Ike, don't give up that big boat you own down there in or around the Keys. And that fuel bill, don't worry about that the taxpayer can subsidize your lifestyle with your "free" health care."

Sir, she worked as a school teacher for many, many years. She paid her taxes for many, many years. She is hardly receiving a doggone thing for free. She paid into the system.

"No siree Bob, you will not do without as long as you can take advantage of more and "BETTER" government programs paid by someone else."

It would be truly interesting to know a bit more about your situation in life. There's probably a very good reason why it is that you keep your personal details a closely guarded secret.

You have lots of time to cyber-stalk during most week days, that's for sure.

March 13, 2013 at 3:32 p.m.
conservative said...

lkeithlu said... PS, until you start acting like an adult, conservative, I will ignore you. Go back to your sandbox

You and alprova just can't keep your word can you?

"BETTER" make that statement more often you are way behind alprova.

March 13, 2013 at 3:34 p.m.
anniebelle said...

conman, fortunately, people like alprova and myself live out here in the real world and deal with 'facts' as they are presented to us -- not fed to us by over-paid talking heads on tv who feed their propaganda to the morons of this country like it was a 'big gulp'. So please go on with your bibles and your guns and your ignorance, just get out of this country we're trying to bring back from the brink after 8 years of Bush/Cheney cabal robbed us all blind and took us into two unfunded wars, just put them on the credit card and handed it over to President Obama to 'take care of' the tab. Your bs doesn't fly anymore, so get over it. We had an election We won. YOU lost! Get a life!

March 13, 2013 at 3:39 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova:

"She paid into the system"

Ah,the "system." The hole card used by Socialists and Liberals meaning - I get something for nothing or receive something at reduced cost to me while someone else pays the difference.

Yes, is a wonderful system for those who receive. The debt, well that is not your problem it is just the way the system works.

March 13, 2013 at 3:44 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

When uninsured people are treated at an emergency room, they are merely "stabilized" and, like alprova said, then told to seek elsewhere for follow-up care. Unless that person pays the bill in full they will not be treated at the emergency room again, no matter how serious their illness or injury. The hospital eats part of that cost but a large part of it is paid by the government and another large part is passed on to the insurance companies who in turn pass the cost on to their policy holders in the form of higher premiums. So whether you like it or not, you people who complain about how you shouldn't have to pay taxes just so poor people or the "takers" can get health insurance, you are already doing it - and in the least cost efficient way possible!

We have the most illogical, unfair, and costly system of providing health insurance of any industrialized nation. We might have some of the most advanced medical technology in the world but we have the absolute worst way of delivering it so that the most number of people can benefit from it. Unless you are rich enough to afford it or fortunate enough to work at one of the few places of employment that still provides a comprehensive health care plan, then you are just SOL in this country.

It's not just a matter of compassion or warm and fuzzy altruism to provide universal health care; it's as much about common sense and fiscal sanity, too. It would be much less costly to provide good, comprehensive preventive care up front and thus vastly decrease the number of people needing to resort to costly ER care and having to treat diseases on the back end, where it is exorbitantly more expensive.

March 13, 2013 at 3:46 p.m.
Leaf said...

Alprova, why do you keep engaging conservative? The scroll wheel on my mouse is starting to wear out.

March 13, 2013 at 3:54 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Ah,the "system." The hole card used by Socialists and Liberals meaning - I get something for nothing or receive something at reduced cost to me while someone else pays the difference

Until you can show any evidence that I receive any money from the government, I invite you to STFU. You are a liar to the nth degree. What would Jesus think?

March 13, 2013 at 3:59 p.m.
conservative said...

Well, that is a start, you still have a lot of catching up to do.

March 13, 2013 at 4:03 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Alprova, why do you keep engaging conservative? The scroll wheel on my mouse is starting to wear out." - Leaf

I second that emotion. Con-man is a certifiable lunatic. It's an exercise in futility, and thus its own form of insanity, to try to get logic out of a sh#t-for-brains Bible thumping holy rolling self-righteous maniac.

March 13, 2013 at 4:09 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova :

"Well I'll tell you what. Let's you and I have a foot race to see who gets to the pearly gates first"

OK, I will go along with your belief for now, but I have to know your rules. What are your rules for getting to the pearly gates as you call it.

March 13, 2013 at 4:10 p.m.
GameOn said...

The big obesity problem is high fructose corn sugar syrup. Unfortunately, we have Richard Nixon to thank for this product. It is in everything. It is the root of obesity, in my opinion, along with a lack of exercise. I try not to buy anything with it. It is a challenge. Pepsi offers Sierra Mist natural with real sugar. Other soda products probably exist. The more you read, about high fructose corn syrup, the more you wonder why this product has not been outlawed.

http://www.allgov.com/news/where-is-the-money-going/why-are-americans-growing-obese-blame-richard-nixon-and-earl-butz?news=844637

March 13, 2013 at 4:27 p.m.
Leaf said...

OK, here's the simple reason why I think universally mandated healthcare is really a conservative idea, even though it happened to be Obama who finally passed a watered-down version, after decades of both Democrats and Republicans trying.

If we accept the premise that we treat people who come in to the emergency room at death's door without first receiving payment, then we have affirmed that health care is a right, and not a priviledge. (I know some ultra-libertarians don't accept this premise, but they are in the very slim minority.)

If healthcare is a right, then doctors and hospitals are not allowed to turn away patients who need basic care. That is what happens now. Some hospitals, especially those in poorer areas, lose money every year because they treat so many people who can't pay.

If all that healthcare is being provided anyway, then someone is paying for it. That someone is ultimately all of us - through taxes, higher insurance premiums, or higher healthcare prices.

A fiscal conservative would recognize that the total cost of all healthcare could be lowered by setting up a better system. Instead of uninsured emergency room visits, which are expensive, give the currently uninsured access to regular doctor visits, which cuts down on their yearly healthcare costs. That saves money for everyone.

Yes, it is still giving something away to someone who arguable didn't earn it, but denying it would cost more. Do you want to give away $1.00 or $1.50? The true fiscal conservative puts aside his initial emotional response and intellectually recognizes what is best for him.

March 13, 2013 at 4:36 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "You call me idiot and moron and then accuse me of judging. It always comes down to that with you Liberals doesn't it?"

Don't you worry yourself about my transgression. I'll ask God's forgiveness for it. I called you a moron. It was not a judgment, so much as an astute observation.

Do you ever look at the tripe you type? Do you truly think that anyone who does not know you, would read your posts and believe for one second that you are a man who follows the examples of Jesus, as it is written in the Bible?

"Race to the pearly gates. You opened the door now you tell me how you are going to inherit the Kingdom of God."

Naw...I'm done giving you any answers, until you start backing up your condemnations of my truths and facts with some scriptural proof.

You can't and you know it.

"I predict that you will not but will say it is none of my business or that is between you and your god."

We share the same God, my woolly foe. It's about time you realized that.

"Forget your Mormon indoctrination, Joseph Smith died in his sins, he did not rise again and he did not get his own planet and neither will you."

Notwithstanding that any words I read or heard of Joseph Smith are 38 years in my rear-view mirror, this planet thing you allude to is totally news to me.

And Sir, I really hate to point out the obvious, but there is not a shred of concrete evidence to prove that Jesus rose from the dead himself. We believe it to be true, because the Bible tells us so.

So whether it was written by someone named Joseph Smith or by a bunch of people 2,000 eons ago, people believe what they want.

But you Sir, are no closer to God and his kingdom than anyone else on this planet. And it's strictly my opinion, but the sheer amount of contempt and the hatred you routinely express in this forum, doesn't seem very Christian at all.

Someone opined at one time that you came across like one of the Phelps, and I agree 100%. You come across very much like Shirley Phelps Roper in print.

March 13, 2013 at 4:37 p.m.
Leaf said...

Gameon said, "The big obesity problem is high fructose corn sugar syrup."

Right! More to the point, it's corn that should be outlawed. Corn makes fructose, gasahol, and corn liquor. Fructose is bad for your gut, gasahol is bad for your boat, and corn liquor . . . well, it's OK. Nevermind.

March 13, 2013 at 4:40 p.m.
Leaf said...

I see I basically said the same thing Rickaroo did. I started it and did something else for a while then finished and posted it. Didn't mean to be a copycat.

March 13, 2013 at 4:45 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Ah,the "system." The hole card used by Socialists and Liberals meaning - I get something for nothing or receive something at reduced cost to me while someone else pays the difference."

Sir...we're not the ones who created the system. We pay our way just like you do. It's not perfect, but it serves this nation very well.

And given that there are people out there who think very much like you do, I'd sure hate to see us return to any system where the poor, the disabled, or the elderly would have to depend on charity and the good will of far too many, self-proclaimed Christians, much like yourself, in order to survive.

"Yes, is a wonderful system for those who receive. The debt, well that is not your problem it is just the way the system works."

As a matter of fact, the debt is not my problem. I worry not a minute about it. I didn't create it, contribute to it, and have not an ounce of complicity in it.

I thank God for many things, including the real leaders of this nation who stepped up to the plate to think of the people who are in need at various times in their lives.

God knows that you don't.

March 13, 2013 at 4:48 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

lkeithlu,

What you are doing now for health insurance is what everyone should be doing and was what was done before WWII. The federal government helped to distort our perception of health insurance when it instituted wage controls during that war and forced employers to find other ways to compensate employees in order to gain labor stability. Company provided health insurance with all the bells and whistles including low deductibles became the norm. It really is no longer health insurance but company funded health care. Now that this situation has been created we have lost track of the “right way” and have come to collectively believe that expensive low deductible plans with no back-up savings are the way to go. We even think we need the supplemental insurance you mentioned because we have been trained to believe saving for health care is not necessary and as such have become slaves to the insurance industry.

HSAs are the way to go. If one was to open an HSA when they were young, along with a high deductible plan, they would find that their health insurance would be quite affordable. As you get older you can keep cranking up your deductible to keep your rates down. All your life you would be motivated to be a smart healthcare consumer in the interest of growing your HSA balance. Since you have a high deductible plan, you probably have discovered that you can typically get a 30-50% discount from many providers if you pay them directly out of your savings and do not bother with insurance. I don’t think you can get these discounts if you run the claim through insurance, even if you are paying the entire amount due to the deductible. I usually pay directly from my HSA and take the discount anticipating that I will not reach my deductible. Taking the discount helps to keep the HSA balance growing.

Imagine how big your HSA could be when you reached retirement if everything that went into Medicare, Medicaid and what your employer spends on your health insurance was rolled into such a plan.

I know, the disadvantaged… The solution for them should come from the general fund and not from a mandatory government provided health care redistribution plan. It has gotten to the point that every social contract with the government has become another form of wealth distribution for the poor and disabled. This poorly conceived approach has helped to separate the vast majority of us from the responsibility of being smart healthcare consumers.

March 13, 2013 at 4:54 p.m.
alprova said...

Leaf wrote: "Alprova, why do you keep engaging conservative?"

There are many reasons why I do, but the main one is because he is a very large pimple on the butt of humanity and no one is going to get away with expressing any belief that they are better than anyone else.

"The scroll wheel on my mouse is starting to wear out."

Send me your address and I'll be happy to send you a new mouse, as needed.

March 13, 2013 at 4:55 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Leaf said... "...The true fiscal conservative puts aside his initial emotional response and intellectually recognizes what is best for him."

I appreciate the practical outcome you are pursuing, but a true conservative (only about a half dozen of these exist in Washington today) would recognize that redistribution of health care services to the disadvantaged under public health care pretends to help everyone but it really only helps the very bottom of the socioeconomic spectrum and hurts everyone else.

There are better ways to support the needs of everyone. Handing it over to a bunch of lawyers trying to get reelected is not the answer.

March 13, 2013 at 5:15 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "I know, the disadvantaged… The solution for them should come from the general fund and not from a mandatory government provided health care redistribution plan."

Where do you think the funds found in the General fund come from? ObamaCare may not be the perfect answer, but it is a foundation to build upon and to work with, to help people wrap their minds around the concept of everyone taking part in their own health care.

Taxpayer funds used to pay insurance premiums for those who cannot afford them is by far, a far less expensive option than paying hospital bills.

So long as this nation is fond of insurance companies being the middle-man in the health care arena, then ObamaCare will continue to be the deal of the day.

HSA's are a great idea, for those who can afford to set aside some of what they have to pay for future health care costs. I would love to see the day when it would make perfect sense to allow people to keep what they have in those accounts, for years, untouched and unmolested, until they have the need to spend those dollars for health care needs.

Under the current rules, I refuse to have one. The very thought that what I do not spend at the end of any given year for medical expenses, disappears forever, is idiotic.

"It has gotten to the point that every social contract with the government has become another form of wealth distribution for the poor and disabled. This poorly conceived approach has separated the vast majority of us from the responsibility of being smart healthcare consumers."

You cannot judge any social program based on the fact that there are some who abuse them. The vast majority of people who depend on them are genuinely in need, or genuinely qualify for benefits.

Any change or elimination of social programs needs to begin with people who enter the workforce fresh out of high school or college.

Changing the name of the game in the fourth quarter of many people's lives is simply not fair and it will never work.

March 13, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova wrote :

"Race to the pearly gates. You opened the door now you tell me how you are going to inherit the Kingdom of God."

Naw...I'm done giving you any answers, until you start backing up your condemnations of my truths and facts with some scriptural proof.

March 13, 2013 at 4:37 p.m.

=================

Before alprova wrote that, I wrote:

Race to the pearly gates. You opened the door now you tell me how you are going to inherit the Kingdom of God.

I predict that you will not but will say it is none of my business or that is between you and your god.

Forget your Mormon indoctrination, Joseph Smith died in his sins, he did not rise again and he did not get his own planet and neither will you.

March 13, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.

March 13, 2013 at 5:21 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Leaf said... "and corn liquor . . . well, it's OK."

Hah! Nice touch!

Sugar in any form is bad. It is disgusting how much is pumped into processed foods, and how hard it is to find recipes that are not loaded with sugar. Try to find a recipe for pickling fish (or whatever, this was my latest adventure) that is not LOADED with sugar. Something tells me that there were good pickled fish recipes that did not use sugar back in the day.

It pisses me off when I order a steak and it comes to the table slathered with some low grade sugar based sauce. Yuck! Sucralose, glucose, fructose, galactose, maltose, lactose! It is all to be avoided accept for rare sweet treats. I do not get why it is poured into everything else.

The ingredient list on many processed foods looks like a chemistry lesson. No wonder we are riddled with cancer.

March 13, 2013 at 5:33 p.m.
alprova said...

GameOn provided a link to an article that outlined the slippery slope that food producers have been going down, in adding high fructose corn sugar into their products.

In that are article, a very profound sentence was written;

"Some Americans prefer to buy Coca-Cola manufactured in Mexico because it is made with sugar, whereas U.S.-made Coca-Cola uses HFCS."

I'm one of them. Most people are not even aware of the fact that most grocery stores sell Mexican bottled cokes.

I very rarely sip on a coke, but when I do have a craving for a little bubbly concoction, it is one of those Mexican wonders.

They taste far better than those bottled in the U.S. too. They remind me very much of the old Cokes that used to come in the blue tinted bottles.

March 13, 2013 at 5:35 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "So long as this nation is fond of insurance companies being the middle-man in the health care arena, then ObamaCare will continue to be the deal of the day."

So there you have it. As long as we let the root of the problem be the core of the solution there will be no real solution. Things should be structured to wean those who can afford it off the poison. Once the health care system adjusts to serve the new cost conscious consumer it will also be better positioned to serve the disadvantaged with their government assistance in whatever form that would be.

March 13, 2013 at 5:38 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "I predict that you will not but will say it is none of my business or that is between you and your god."

How many meaningful conversations do you have with any trees that you have in your back yard? I'm betting more than a few.

You get busy refuting the points that has had you in a tizzy over the past two weeks, and I'll be happy to outline to you, the path I am on eternal life with our Lord.

I laid those points out in detail. I haven't backed down or denied so much as one of them. You've posted them repeatedly from your own files.

And to date, you have not addressed one of them with an ounce of proof that what I have typewritten not only did not come straight out of the Bible, but is a factual and truthful representation of what is written in the Bible.

You've made it clear that you consider what I have written to be blasphemous and deceitful, and have even gone so far as to accuse me of being the anti-Christ.

I'm hardly bothered by what you consider me to be or not to be, but before I answer one more question from you, it's time for a little Quid pro quo.

You prove to me that what I have offered is blasphemous. You prove that one word I have written is not true and factual, as it is written in the Bible.

For someone who claims that there are many people who are panting to read what you have to write on a daily basis, and as someone who claims to make their living writing on the Internet, such a task should come extremely easy.

For some reason, you seem to be incapable of rising up to the challenge.

Your turn squirt.

March 13, 2013 at 5:52 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

It is fair to estimate that insurance drives up the cost of healthcare by somewhere between 30 to 50%. I base this on the fact that most healthcare providers will give you a 30-50% discount if you pay in cash and the observation that every doctor office I visit has about a 2:1 ratio of administrators verses health care providers. The administrators are mainly there to handle the demands of processing insurance claims.

The last time I went into a new provider I spent literally about an hour with bureaucrats before I spent my 10 minutes with the doctor.

March 13, 2013 at 5:54 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

What you are doing now for health insurance is what everyone should be doing and was what was done before WWII.

You know, I agree with you. It has changed my behavior significantly, and made me a better consumer.

March 13, 2013 at 5:55 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "So there you have it. As long as we let the root of the problem be the core of the solution there will be no real solution."

That just about sums it up.

"Things should be structured to wean those who can afford it off the poison."

Agreed.

"Once the health care system adjusts to serve the new cost conscious consumer it will also be better positioned to serve the disadvantaged with their government assistance in whatever form that would be."

There's absolutely nothing at all to contest in the above. The trick is, to find enough Washington politicians to wrap their minds around such a solution.

March 13, 2013 at 5:56 p.m.
GameOn said...

alprova...Thanks for the Mexican Coke tip. Pepsi has Sierra Mist Natural with real sugar too.

March 13, 2013 at 6:40 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova :

"Well I'll tell you what. Let's you and I have a foot race to see who gets to the pearly gates first"

I noted before how in your "years" of Mormon indoctrination you were taught to use the term "son of God" to fool those who were not familiar with Scripture, but that when confronted you would deny that Jesus was God.

So I'm wondering if your indoctrination taught you to use the words "pearly gates," when you had something in mind other than what people normally thought that meant.

March 13, 2013 at 6:49 p.m.
Easy123 said...

I encourage everyone to ignore conservative. It is truly a waste of your time.

Conservative is and always will be a sanctimonious, ultra-WingNut douche bag.

Engaging that mentally compromised individual in debate will never lead to anything that even resembles meaningful conversation. Conservative lacks basic levels of intelligence and espouses some of the most maniacal beliefs I've ever encountered.

Ignorance, thy name is conservative.

March 13, 2013 at 7:02 p.m.
dude_abides said...

I don't drink much alcohol, but I should own half of Coca Cola.

March 13, 2013 at 7:06 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "What we all need to worry about is the government stealing our 401K savings."

Nobody is suggesting, even in that article, that anyone with the Government is thinking about stealing 401K accounts.

March 13, 2013 at 7:24 p.m.
dude_abides said...

It may be time to change your tune, conservatives! You know, switch from saying the President is ruining the economy to saying he has nothing to do with the resurgence.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/13/investing/dow-record-irrational-exuberance/index.html?source=cnn_bin

March 13, 2013 at 7:51 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "I noted before how in your "years" of Mormon indoctrination you were taught to use the term "son of God" to fool those who were not familiar with Scripture, but that when confronted you would deny that Jesus was God."

Does the Bible itself not refer to Jesus as being the son of God?

Your "God the Son" theory is not supported anywhere in the Bible, with the exception of a few highly misinterpreted vague passages that someone read many moons ago and decided to start a new religion based on them.

Read Matthew 16:15-17. 15 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

I've tried to ease your mind and concern for my soul that I am a Mormon, to no avail. Believe what you wish.

"So I'm wondering if your indoctrination taught you to use the words "pearly gates," when you had something in mind other than what people normally thought that meant."

Like I've stated many times, I have attended many churches in my time, encompassing many different religious platforms. I have taken many beliefs and rejected many beliefs as well, from each and every one of them, to form my own religious beliefs.

I probably know less about the Mormon religion than you do, because as I stated yesterday, the last time I attended a Mormon church was in January of 1975.

I believe what I believe because I have a brain that allows me to read, to digest what I read, to keep it in context at all times, and to arrive at what seems most logical.

Your beliefs are not based on what is written in the Bible, or you would be able to cite it immediately and put me in my place.

Now me a nice little lamb and go graze for awhile. I know you're hungry.

March 13, 2013 at 7:53 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

"Well I'll tell you what. Let's you and I have a foot race to see who gets to the pearly gates first"

So, what do you mean by "pearly gates?"

March 13, 2013 at 8:03 p.m.
fairmon said...

If we are here to take care of and provide for others what are others here for?

Not if you care about the basic quality of life that every human citizen of the country deserves.

Your points were well made regarding waste, need to improve, seek better alternatives etc. I can't agree with that "every" human citizen deserves a basic quality of life.

March 13, 2013 at 8:17 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al, believe what you want to believe, but it was made clear in both articles the government is eyeing our 401K savings. I guess you missed what CFPB Director Richard Cordary said in one of the articles I posted.

CFPB director and longtime Democratic politician Richard Cordray earlier this month told Bloomberg News that managing retirement savings is "one of the things we've been exploring ... in terms of whether and what authority we have."

March 13, 2013 at 8:23 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Nucanuck said: "Let people pick their own poison. . . the weak shall (often) inheirit the earth (a little sooner than the rest)."

Yes. . . and all because they were seeking the real thing. . . that pause that refreshes. . . Maybe they believed the commercials and thought life is good when you live for now.

March 13, 2013 at 8:23 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "I can't agree with that "every" human citizen deserves a basic quality of life."

That puts you on par to emulate Hitler. Oh...you're not alone in holding such sentiment near and dear, but thank God you're not in charge of things.

March 13, 2013 at 8:25 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "CFPB director and longtime Democratic politician Richard Cordray earlier this month told Bloomberg News that managing retirement savings is "one of the things we've been exploring ... in terms of whether and what authority we have."

One of my businesses is to audit and administer retirement programs. You'd be very surprised at the number of people who throw money into a retirement account, pick four funds to invest in when they start it, and let it sit there and never make another change for years.

There is a vast difference between managing investments and "raiding" them, as you alleged when you first posted. Managed investments are monitored to maximize them and to assist them in the process of growing more rapidly.

One can debate whether or not the Government should or could have any authority to manage private investment accounts, but your assertion that anyone is considering "raiding" private 401K accounts, was false, and you really should have known better.

March 13, 2013 at 8:33 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

"I can't agree with that "every" human citizen deserves a basic quality of life."

Yet we as a nation agree on a basic quality of life for animals. There is a minimum standard for humans that I think we as americans all agree on (with some exception)- life, basic nutrition, shelter, protection under law, privacy and at least some dignity. If we, the most powerful and greatest nation, with the best government, constitution and resources, can't provide for the least of us, then we don't deserve the title of world superpower.

We need to get past the idea that being poor is a crime, that being disabled is a failure of character, that being needy means that it is okay to be victimized. If we really were a Christian nation, this would be a no-brainer.

March 13, 2013 at 8:34 p.m.
alprova said...

lkeithlu wrote: "We need to get past the idea that being poor is a crime, that being disabled is a failure of character, that being needy means that it is okay to be victimized. If we really were a Christian nation, this would be a no-brainer."

Ma'am, with your permission, I'm going to put that in large letters, print it out, frame it, and put in on my office wall.

Perfection in expression. That's just what you achieved!!

March 13, 2013 at 8:40 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "So, what do you mean by "pearly gates?"

Revelation 21:21. "21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass."

Anything else?

March 13, 2013 at 8:47 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

You have my full permission. Probably the only time I will ever be quoted. Your kind words are appreciated-as a non-believer I get called a lot of things, none of them very nice.

March 13, 2013 at 8:51 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al, in order for the government to manage our 401K accounts they would have to take control (steal) those accounts from us.

I stand by what I said in my first post. They are looking at stealing our 401K savings.

March 13, 2013 at 8:55 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Al, in order for the government to manage our 401K accounts they would have to take control (steal) those accounts from us."

So...by that standard, every investment managing firm located in the United States are filled with nothing but thieves?

"I stand by what I said in my first post. They are looking at stealing our 401K savings."

Okey Dokey...start stuffing your mattresses then.

March 13, 2013 at 9:03 p.m.
alprova said...

lkeithlu wrote: "Your kind words are appreciated-as a non-believer I get called a lot of things, none of them very nice."

It's not your fault for not believing. Many Christians are largely responsible for turning people off to any concept of religion. Far too many are not inspirational, nor do people care to be as they are...hate filled and judgmental.

Far too many Christians rarely agree among themselves, if left alone in a room for ten minutes and someone utters something that another disagrees with.

If conservative and I were church elders, a new church would have been born over the past two weeks. But then I am not in the business of indoctrinating anyone. I live and let live.

March 13, 2013 at 9:08 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Belief is a funny thing. I don't think anyone can be persuaded to believe or not believe-it is purely a personal thing. I came to my state of unbelief in a very honest and straightforward way, but I appreciate and respect others for their beliefs too. I only resist if a) I am told I MUST believe or b) someone uses falsehoods to bolster their beliefs and uses these falsehoods to coerce others.

March 13, 2013 at 9:14 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al, there should not be any debate on whether the Government should or could have the authority to manage private investment accounts. Only a person who believes all money is the governments in the first place would believe the government has the right to control our investment accounts. This person also believes it is the governments right –superior to that of the people- to decide how much money a person should receive every month from the government when they retire.

Do you believe all money is the governments?

Do you believe the government is superior to that of the people?

March 13, 2013 at 9:17 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Al, there should not be any debate on whether the Government should or could have the authority to manage private investment accounts."

Oh, I agree with you on that one. I'm just as uncomfortable with the prospect myself, but then I don't see that happening at all.

I'm sure there are crazy ideas bantered about all the time up in Washington.

"Only a person who believes all money is the governments in the first place would believe the government has the right to control our investment accounts."

Well...that's not me, so you can relax.

"This person also believes it is the governments right –superior to that of the people- to decide how much money a person should receive every month from the government when they retire."

Well...if you are expecting to draw Social Security, isn't that pretty much the way it is now?

"Do you believe all money is the governments?"

No.

"Do you believe the government is superior to that of the people?"

As a realist, it doesn't really matter whether or not I believe that the Government is superior or not to the people. The Government exerts its will upon the people all the time, every time a new law is passed.

March 13, 2013 at 9:46 p.m.
moonpie said...

I think this is supposed to be a comment that high capacity drinks and high capacity clips do more harm than good.

The more you have to refill or reload, the less harm you can do....

Think of all the greenhouse emissions we would save if we made suburbans have 3 gallon gas tanks.

Maybe we could make cigarettes 1 inch long.

.... There are so many opportunities ....

March 13, 2013 at 10:24 p.m.
joneses said...

The difference between a dummycrat and a conservative is this. A dummycrat thinks obesity is cause by the sugar laden soft drinks. A conservative knows the problem lie with the fat ass drinking the sh!t.

March 13, 2013 at 10:58 p.m.
joneses said...

Another example of bennett being just another hate filled liberal extremist.

March 13, 2013 at 11:14 p.m.
alprova said...

Thank you so much for those thoughtful, inspiring comments joneses.

We needed an example of what people who love people have on their minds.

March 13, 2013 at 11:20 p.m.
AndrewLohr said...

And what about the government industry? Will it put itself on a diet with regard to money and power? Jesus is libertarian: "The son of man came not to be served but to serve."

March 14, 2013 at 12:03 a.m.
caddy said...

^ Indeed, where are ALL the OLD hippie / liberals who at least had a concept of what it meant to be "Free" from the government, free of all the government intervention in our lives. Seems we'd rather be Free to be slaves to government and regulation than at Liberty to be "un-equal."

To be "un-equal" is the statist devil.

March 14, 2013 at 1:55 p.m.
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