published Saturday, November 9th, 2013

The Rollout

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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AndrewLohr said...

Write more insurance policies covering more people, with more comprehensive coverage on each, while cutting costs? No wonder the computers crashed.

Singapore makes everyone put 7% or so of their income into health savings accounts from which they pay for whatever they need. So they have coverage, very flexible to meet the needs of each, and they also have an incentive to save, since they can keep what they don't spend. How about that as an alternative to O'Liarcare? (Source: Kevin Williamson at National Review Online.)

November 9, 2013 at 12:23 a.m.
alprova said...

Gotta hand it to Andrew...

He spins a lie and sticks to it.

Singapore's health care system has three facets.

Individual savings, subsidies, and price controls.

But Andrew only types about one.

False witness Andrew. False witness.

November 9, 2013 at 1:17 a.m.
alprova said...

It may not exactly be rolling at the moment, but it sure looks like a wintergreen lifesaver to me.

November 9, 2013 at 1:18 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo, you should be the last one to talk about spin. You're the king of centrifuge.

November 9, 2013 at 1:22 a.m.
fairmon said...

When you don't know where you are going any road will get you there. This rolling stone is not a musician, you will get crushed. Are we being dazzled with brilliance or baffled with BS? We will have to pass it to know what is in it...ok, it is passed and we still don't and cannot know what is in it. Is it the real thing or did congress just pass gas, either way it is beginning to have an offensive odor?

That canceled policy wasn't any good anyway, I know what is best for you, trust me, a single 60 year old male needs coverage for prenatal and birthing, pap smears, mammograms, birth control, Viagra and a few other items you declined in that sub par policy you had.

Welcome aboard....not so fast there we don't have the engine running yet and the wheels turning, you may have to try getting on after the train has left the station. Oh crap, another wheel just came off.

November 9, 2013 at 1:40 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

"We have to pass it to see what's in it". sounds like a stool sample

November 9, 2013 at 2:08 a.m.
anniebelle said...

The Real Story Behind the Phony Canceled Health Insurance Scandal Insurance companies ripped off Americans for years with lousy health plans. Obamacare was designed to fix that. Blue Cross was selling these plans in malls and other retail insurance "shops" in an effort to target young people who don't have or don't think they need health insurance, luring them in with cheap premiums of between $24 to $54 a month. The plans came with a not-well-disclosed caveat that they were not designed to replace hospital-surgical plans, which Blue Cross encouraged people to buy—provided the purchasers could get past all the exclusions for preexisting conditions. This is what republicans are fighting for – junk insurance plans that are as worthless as a $3 bill.

November 9, 2013 at 6:05 a.m.
degage said...

Annie, where have you personally seen blue cross selling insurance in malls? I am in my 70's and I have never seen such a thing. Maybe you got that statement from one of the liberal sites you frequent.

I had to laugh yesterday when I saw Obama attempt an apology. Seems he was sorry the people misunderstood him, meaning it is your fault not his.

November 9, 2013 at 6:28 a.m.
anniebelle said...

Well, I guess since you haven't seen it 'personally' it doesn't happen. What kind of little bubble do you live in? This is from that 'liberal site' USA Today. Call it the retailization of health insurance.

Shopping center owners may not be courting them as they would Apple or trendy fashion brands, but health insurers are increasingly opening stores alongside far sexier retail tenants.

You really should broaden your horizons, degage.

November 9, 2013 at 6:45 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Since this is specifically about Obamacare, I'll post this here too:

First glitch: I have successfully established my account, and can log in. I just tried to "shop" for insurance, but after logging in the site won't go further. I did read somewhere that it is often shut down at night while they are working on it, and it is before 7AM Eastern. I will try again after 8AM.

Fact check sites are stating that a lot of the stories about "cancelled policies", including Dylan Ratigan's story on the Blaze,(Glenn Beck can't help but spread falsehoods) turns out to be either crap policies or insurance companies cancelling policies and offering expensive alternatives on the spot. The customer takes these, not realizing that if they went to the exchanges they could find an equivalent policy for less. This is the insurance company's way to avoid the competition that the ACA sets up.

I should add here that Florida Blue did not do this to me.(yet, anyway) I just got a letter that my policy would end in 2014.

November 9, 2013 at 6:49 a.m.
degage said...

Annie,I would rather live in my bubble than yours. I went to liberal sites looking for your claim and couldn't find it. Where did you find it? the only thing I found was Blue cross has opened a store of its own in SC, or had a store in a strip mall which is self standing.

November 9, 2013 at 6:54 a.m.
degage said...

Ike, I believe the site is shut down between 12 am and 5am, so it can be worked on.

November 9, 2013 at 7:17 a.m.
anniebelle said...

that's what you get for 'assuming', degage. I don't go to 'liberal sites' as you suggest. I try to stick to 'news', not opinions. I went to USA Today, it's a national newspaper, been around for several years. Also, I wouldn't be bragging about being in your 70's and still ignorant of the world around you. I'm sure you would rather be in your 'bubble' than out here in reality. I hear 'ignorance is bliss'.

November 9, 2013 at 7:18 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Thanks, degage. It would be nice if the site had a message to that effect, no?

November 9, 2013 at 7:22 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Update: I used the chat function and indeed what I encountered was a glitch (I clicked "next" after selecting "shop for indiv/family policies and got a red flag telling me I could only apply for one policy per state, after which the "next" button no longer worked). I did nothing to my knowledge to cause that message to appear, and the chat person agreed that it was a website error. The chat person offered to help me apply for policies by mail or telephone on the spot, but I told him I wasn't in a hurry and would wait a couple of days to try again online.

Oh, yeah: I should mention that there was no wait involved. I opened "chat" and someone answered immediately.

November 9, 2013 at 7:47 a.m.
degage said...

Ike, at least there was some help. I wish this thing would get up and running so people will be able to see what is available. My daughter and granddaughter are in limbo. Two weeks ago my granddaughter called the phone number and they told her she needed to go to healthcare.gov. Not much help.

November 9, 2013 at 8:14 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I guess if I had been in a hurry I would have checked the phone option. I could have checked the snail mail option, too, but I suspect that's pretty slow.

November 9, 2013 at 8:16 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

anti belle says "I stick to 'news', not opinions." You southpaws need to get off the ether. All (probably most) of the canceled policies are not junk policies. You guys are so ideologically disposed to believe in this thing, that you can't, or won't see the truth. Wise up, gals.

November 9, 2013 at 8:22 a.m.
anniebelle said...

Try this site, it's quick and easy. http://www.thehealthsherpa.com/ President Obama should have known not to use republican operatives to set up the healthcare site. They've tried every way possible to discourage, mislead, lie about the exchanges, you name it.

November 9, 2013 at 8:36 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Not all the policies were junk policies, PT, but a lot of them were. My policy was not, but it was a high deductible policy that was lacking a couple of features. High deductible policies are offered in the plans, however. I liked my bare-bones policy because I am quite healthy, but I believe that this act was necessary and am willing to give it up if we reduce the power that insurance has enjoyed. I know too many people shut out of insurance. The true cost of health care may be revealed now; what I liked about my new plan was it made me shop for my health care, giving me a glimpse into the real fees charged, rather than having that transaction hidden from me and be only between provider and insurance. I could get prices from more than one provider, and negotiate discounts by paying cash up front. You'd be amazed at the good deals out there on mammograms and colonoscopies! I have become a better consumer, and been more responsible about my own health. And yeah, I have to admit I got my better half to stitch me up once, without lidocane. Scotch helps but it is a poor substitute.

I will reserve my final opinion of the ACA until I am finished negotiating my way through it. Fake stories in the news about people being "screwed" (they were screwed, but by insurance companies, not the ACA) do not paint an accurate picture and reflect poorly on those that broadcast these accounts.

November 9, 2013 at 8:43 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Belle says "They've tried every way possible to discourage, mislead, lie about the exchanges, you name it." Belle, you really want to talk about lying? Really?

November 9, 2013 at 8:43 a.m.
jesse said...

Can ya imagin layin in the "HOME" waitin on the bus and here comes Anniebelle to "cheer ya up"?Just tell the nurse "PULL THE PLUG!

November 9, 2013 at 8:45 a.m.
anniebelle said...

Geez, jes if that's all it takes to get rid of you, I'm on my way to your 'home'.

November 9, 2013 at 8:50 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Lu: Good points. But fake stories cut both ways.

November 9, 2013 at 9:01 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "I know what is best for you, trust me, a single 60 year old male needs coverage for prenatal and birthing, pap smears, mammograms, birth control, Viagra and a few other items you declined in that sub par policy you had."

It's a trade-off Sir. You may not want to pay for prenatal and birthing, pap smears, mammograms, birth control and Viagra, but what if younger people adopted the same attitude when it comes to paying for cancer, diabetes, heart conditions, and other diseases associated with old age?

Group policies traditionally include coverage for ALL possible needs, and the costs for those coverages are shared by all participants.

ObamaCare is setting up the largest pool of group insurance plans.

While you may not see the sense in sharing the costs for all, by all, most people understand that it makes complete sense to spread out the costs across a great many people, rather than to shoulder only those with certain needs with those costs.

You may well be a healthy 60 year old NOW, but eventually, your health care concerns are going to change. It is inevitable.

Cost sharing by most makes perfect sense, and one day, you WILL appreciate it.

November 9, 2013 at 9:14 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

According to a book written by longtime Florida A&M University professor Barbara A. Thompson, Barack Obama is no mere mortal. He is, as she wrote, "Apostle Barack," sent to create a “heaven here on earth,” a post at PJ Tatler said Monday In her book, "The Gospel According to Apostle Barack: In Search of a More Perfect Political Union as 'Heaven Here on Earth,'" Professor Thompson says she was given this message in her dreams. Sure sorry I missed out on profs like this back in the day.

November 9, 2013 at 9:16 a.m.
prairie_dog said...

This is horrible. Obama's administration bungled this one to the point that it is interfering with their ability to use taxpayer money to give more free stuff to his voters.

November 9, 2013 at 9:20 a.m.
fairmon said...

anniebelles said....

I'm sure you would rather be in your 'bubble' than out here in reality.

Does that mean you are a graduate of the school of hard knocks? Does that mean your whole life other people have been in control and made your decisions for you, your parents or custodian, your teachers and bosses. A reality like that could result in your looking to someone else to decide what you should have and punish you if you don't do as told. And, that experience can result in your desire to be in the controlling mode and insist that others agree with you and do as you think best for them.

anniebelle said.. I hear 'ignorance is bliss'.

So sad that you fail to realize your blissful state of being. You must have an ego as big as all outdoors or a very low self esteem.

November 9, 2013 at 9:27 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

You may not want to pay for prenatal and birthing, pap smears, mammograms, birth control and Viagra, but what if younger people adopted the same attitude when it comes to paying for cancer, diabetes, heart conditions, and other diseases associated with old age?

That is an apples and oranges comparison however, if a younger person wanted to risk not having the coverage then allow them to reject it and charge us old farts more to have it. Those at risk can share the risk among them but why force those not at risk to share the risk with those that are?

November 9, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^Because, fairmon, it is the communal way.

November 9, 2013 at 9:43 a.m.
degage said...

careful jessee, annie seems to have a death wish for you. It says a lot about what she thinks of people that don't agree with her politics.

November 9, 2013 at 9:43 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

Hang on to that "lifesaver," alkarma, we want to see the bubbles on the surface when your butt hits the mud at the bottom of the Potomac.

November 9, 2013 at 9:44 a.m.
jesse said...

Degage! If i see a little ole granny lady w/2 dobermans and carrying a rope standing in my front yard I'm gonna hide under the bed!!!!!!!!!!

November 9, 2013 at 10:25 a.m.
soakya said...

It's a trade-off Sir. You may not want to pay for prenatal and birthing, pap smears, mammograms, birth control and Viagra, but what if younger people adopted the same attitude when it comes to paying for cancer, diabetes, heart conditions, and other diseases associated with old age? alprova

insurance covers risk. a male is not going to get pregnant so he doesn't need prenatal and birthing, pap smears, mammogram, nor birth control. there is not a ounce of risk for any male experiencing these conditions.

what stupidity! the young do get cancer, diabetes, and heart conditions. those diseases are not limited to the old the risk for heart conditions is just less. cancer or diabetes doesn't care what age you are. that's why the younger age group premiums are less than those the seniors.

how do you liberals function in life with such ignorance? never mind, I know, you need the government to hold your hand and tell you what to do.

November 9, 2013 at 10:27 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^^ teat sucking, Soak, from the cradle to the grave.

November 9, 2013 at 10:52 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Fairmon's comments are a perfect example of the immature and half-baked thinking that his libertarian ideology represents. Libertarianism has never amounted to anything more than a cult-like fringe faction, not worthy or capable of being a viable economic/political/social system, and there is a reason for that: it is not functional or sustainable! There is no such thing as complete individual freedom in society because the very existence of any society means that certain individual freedoms must be sacrificed for the common good. And as much as libertarians and teabaggers alike hate that term, "common good," it is real and it is in fact what holds society together.

We all pay some portion of our tax dollars for things that don't relate to us personally because there is a bigger picture that must be accounted for, and it is that bigger picture that libertarians and teabaggers can't comprehend. They are like adolescents, caught up in a perpetual me-first stage of development, in which the world revolves around only them. One of the main functions of any democratic, people-oriented government is to establish what that bigger picture is and maintain, as much as possible, a certain egalitarianism (another word that libertarians hate).

While libertarians share some of the same views as liberals about civil rights and social justice, they are not willing to fight for others to have those rights. They fall back on "states' rights" in almost every instance. But if a particular state made a ruling or passed a law that didn't benefit them personally they would still be up in arms about how their individual freedom was being denied. Libertarians are a sick joke.

November 9, 2013 at 10:58 a.m.
una61 said...

Flip-flop-flip-flop-flip-flop-............

November 9, 2013 at 11:12 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Roo says"..And as much as libertarians and teabaggers alike hate that term, "common good," it is real and it is in fact what holds society together." Wouldn't you say, Roo, that it's the degree that separates the libertarians and the sick tea baggers from the egalitarians? And apparently you get to set that balance. No?

November 9, 2013 at 11:24 a.m.
fairmon said...

jesse said...

Degage! If i see a little ole granny lady w/2 dobermans and carrying a rope standing in my front yard I'm gonna hide under the bed!!!!!!!!!!

jesse, I bet her attack word is republican, the Dobermans will go for the throat when she says that and points at you. I wonder what her attack word to destroy a libertarian is?

November 9, 2013 at 11:42 a.m.
soakya said...

rickyroo's comments and I do mean most of his comments are nothing more than a cry for communitarianism.

November 9, 2013 at 11:52 a.m.
fairmon said...

roo says...

libertarians and teabaggers alike hate that term, "common good,"

Are you sure the wording is "for the common good"? The phrase may be the most misused and abused wording in the entire document when extracted as a stand alone statement. It in no way suggest that one's success is to be shared with the masses at the governments discretion.

November 9, 2013 at 11:56 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

You are pathetically clueless, soakya. I'm not calling for "communitarianism" in any shape or fashion. You teabaggers like to think that we "far left" liberals are yearning for some kind of socialist utopia, where the free market is banished forever and everybody is equal, making the same amount of pay, and we live in a nanny state, bowing down to a big brother government as our God. But no liberal that I know, and certainly not even the most liberal Democrats in office, are calling for anything like that. Just because we don't harbor an irrational paranoia and hatred for government doesn't mean that we think that government should run our lives. We love our freedom as much as anybody. We simply believe that government has its place and as long as we freely elect our politicians whose job it is to serve the interests of the people who have elected them, it makes no sense to keep whining about how bad the government is, especially when you keep participating (voting) and keeping that government alive. If you hate government so much, then stop playing the game, stop voting! The Tea Party politicians who run on a platform of shrinking the "big bad government" are the worst hypocrites of all because they are working their asses off trying to get you to vote for them and then keep voting for them so they can hang on to their GOVERNMENT jobs for as long as possible.

There are some things that the free market does best and there are some things the government can do best. It is foolish to think that the free market alone can maintain the overall wellbeing of a country. It's time to let go of that worn-out mantra that government is always the "problem." I am a liberal not because I believe in a socialist utopia but because I acknowledge that government is not necessarily an evil entity in and of itself and that there can and should be a healthy balance between government and the free market. They do not have to be mutually exclusive of each other.

November 9, 2013 at 12:29 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Roo, Who hates the govt.? Your rants and name calling are every bit as toxic as anything from the right. Get off your high horse, man. You don't own the market on fairness.

November 9, 2013 at 12:37 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

I hear my neighbor's Chihuahua yapping again. Oh wait....that's just PT.

November 9, 2013 at 12:41 p.m.
soakya said...

you can deny all you want. anyone with sense looking at your rants would conclude you are advocating for communitarianism. if anyone is clueless it is you because you don't even realize what you support. but don't feel bad you have a few others on here that are just as clueless as you. get off your soap box and quit lying about the tea party and others not wanting government I have yet to hear anyone say such a thing. yeah we believe government has its place too and an appropriate size. for the likes of you government can't be big enough.

November 9, 2013 at 12:49 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Roo, I wouldn't live next door to a Chihuahua. But you do have that sensitive side. You like scones with your latte?

November 9, 2013 at 1:40 p.m.
fairmon said...

rickoroo insist....

There are some things that the free market does best and there are some things the government can do best. It is foolish to think that the free market alone can maintain the overall wellbeing of a country.

The primary role of the federal government is to defend the country(Military) and from people with an intent to harm a citizen. another key function is to assure open and fair interstate commerce. Beyond that can you please provide those things that without a doubt the government can do better than an appropriately regulated private sector with competition and no collusion?

I know social security and healthcare should be better and could be if provided by the private sector with the government regulating in a logical and effective manner. Government intervention assures there is no competition and very little quality of care emphasis. The current social security system has been properly labeled a Ponzi scheme that will implode within the next 15 years. Medicare and Medicaid are already out of control disasters.

12 years to develop and document the affordable healthcare insurance plan and three years to develop and test the web site and both are failures and you insist the government is the only entity that can efficiently handle the task? $97.1 million and counting claims paid to ineligible recipients. Known waste and fraud is a staggering amount. What is the evidence that government can do healthcare better?

November 9, 2013 at 3:05 p.m.
anniebelle said...

PL says: Roo, Who hates the govt.? "America is a country built on the idea of promoting the general welfare, but there are fewer things that the Tea Party holds in lower regard than promoting the general welfare. They favor a dog-eat-dog ideology. Fewer regulations. Fewer social programs. Kill or be killed. They want a nation where capitalism is simply the latest and most socially acceptable form of gladiatorial blood-sport.

America is a country built on freedom of religion, but there probably aren’t any Muslim Tea Party members, and that’s because the Tea Party hates freedom of religion unless it’s the Christian religion. The demagoguery coming from the right these past few years regarding President Obama’s suspected status as a closeted Muslim has been palpable. The thing is, if the Tea Party is indeed the religion-loving freedom-fest they pretend to be, it shouldn’t matter what religion he belongs to. And because they’re forever the party of “not in the face, not in the face” Democrats end up defending the president’s status as a Christian instead of asking the far more American question, “so what if he is?”

Finally, America is a country founded on democracy, a system of government in which elected officials congregate in Washington to enact the will of the people who invited them there. It is the closest thing on the planet there is to governing by majority rule, and the Tea Party is nothing if not a minority of a minority. They are a group of ideological zealots without the votes to pass their own legislative ideas, and that is by design. But instead of attempting to change hearts and minds, the true watermark of an American patriot, they have resorted to spitefully thumbing their nose at the democratic principles that they claim to hold dear. Through Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), the weak-willed Speaker John Boehner(R-Ohio), the Heritage Foundation, and a handful of representatives, the Tea Party has changed House rules and stymied floor-votes in order to intentionally and unashamedly shut down the government and drive the world into global financial uncertainty.

The Tea Party would respond to all of this by saying that they love America. But they don’t love America. They love “America,” an idealized version of our country that, while existing only in their minds, has become an albatross around the neck of every other rational and clear-thinking U.S. citizen and these past few weeks, the rest of the world as well. So let us, the remainder of the nation, both Democrat and Republican alike, finally acknowledge the elephant in the room. The Tea Party hates America and almost everything it stands for. You can tell by how they are doing everything they can to bring it all crashing down."

Justin Yandell is a freelance writer from Texas.

November 9, 2013 at 3:11 p.m.
fairmon said...

What happened to the Pelosi and others logic that a monetary stimulus is needed. She made the brilliant statement that food stamps and unemployment benefits provided a critical economic stimulus. Those same people are blocking activities than would drive down gas prices therefore reducing the job opportunities in that arena and reducing the amount people have to spend and create demand with purchases other than gas. Now, they insist on extracting even more spendable income from the people by requiring the payment of insurance premiums and taxes. That is the exact opposite of their contention that it is critical to provide a demand driven stimulus to the economy.

November 9, 2013 at 3:18 p.m.
fairmon said...

Rolling a wheel in the manner depicted sure hurts when you hit yourself in the shins with it. The "roll out" needs to be a "roll on" and don't run over those waiting to ride.

November 9, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Belle, maybe they're some generalities and stereotypes, lies and distortions you missed. Not sure.

November 9, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.
soakya said...

"America is a country built on freedom of religion, but there probably aren’t any Muslim Tea Party members, and that’s because the Tea Party hates freedom of religion unless it’s the Christian religion." Annie

yeah right that's why there are no muslim tea party members. do you read what you type?

the tea party is such a minority of a minority yet they brought the federal government to their knees. which is it annie?

the albatross around the neck is liberal ideology that by its very nature is destructive and destroying this country. you annie al, ricky and a few others on this site are the problem not fiscal conservatives.

November 9, 2013 at 3:36 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Those at risk can share the risk among them but why force those not at risk to share the risk with those that are?"

You don't invest in mutual funds, do you? You couldn't possibly, because if you did, you would be investing your money with many others, all hoping for a payout.

Can't you understand that this is what insurers are doing, but the insurer is the entity looking to come out ahead with the pooling of all premiums collected, knowing full and well that there are going to be those who will drain more than others from the pool.

Group policies offer coverage to all for a wide range of injuries, illnesses, and other well-being coverage. The premiums are leveled, because there is no way to predict who will need this coverage or that coverage, or no coverage at all.

ObamaCare is essentially the largest collection of group policies ever offered in this nation.

Your ideal of separating low and high risk categories is EXACTLY the problem we are having today, under our current health care system.

Spreading the risk across all people is a very good plan, and in time it will prove itself to be everything promised.

And I hate to remind you, but you may be healthy today, but that could all fall apart tomorrow. There is no prefected way to predict how the human body may rebel at the drop of a pin.

At Age 60, if you have enjoyed great health, your odds are running out with each passing day, and there isn't an insurance company that would not tell you the same thing.

November 9, 2013 at 3:49 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Fairmon, anything that promotes the welfare, health, and productivity of the citizenry and affects the wellbeing of the nation as a whole is best left in the hands of the government, not the free market, at least if the free market is not able or willing to meet said needs of the citizenry. To limit our government to nothing more than a provider and overseer of our military forces for the purposes of defense is preposterous. If we lived in a nation as "free" and unregulated as you libertarians wanted, we would devolve to anarchy overnight. But then, you would leave it up to the states to run things perfectly, wouldn't you? Every state with its own set of laws and regulations and even civil rights.

It's funny to hear you guys, along with the teabaggers, squawk about the socialist utopia we libs supposedly entertain in our heads, when it's you who live in your la-la land of make-believe individual freedom that could not exist in even the most homogeneous of people, let alone in a society as multi-cultured and diverse as America is.

You speak of social security as though it has been a complete debacle, but I would say that a program that has worked efficiently, even flawlessly, for over 70 years is a resounding success. Because it needs a little tweaking now (and that is all it needs, not dismantling and privatizing) does not mean that it's on the verge of "imploding." As for Medicare and Medicaid, they are in trouble only because our entire health care system is in trouble and the costs keep escalating. But since its inception Medicare has been a god-send to the elderly and Medicaid has been a life-line for the poor. And their administrative costs have been much lower than those of the private sector. Again, an overall success. Moreover, government is not out to try to "do health care," just fund it in a way that is less costly and more accessible to all Americans. You guys keep defending the private insurance companies as if they have been perfect models of success (of course, they have been VERY successful for the CEOs who profit from them!), but the horror stories of constantly rising premiums, denied claims, maxed out policies, and bankrupted families who could not pay their medical bills have been a recurring nightmare for too many and for too long. If you haven't experienced any such horrendous experiences yourself that doesn't mean the system is hunky-dory as is. But then again, as long as you got yours, to hell with everybody else, right? All is well in your libertarian la-la land. Enjoy your delusions.

November 9, 2013 at 4:38 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

CBS liberal Bob Schieffer says "Government seems incapable of making things better and it never seems to learn". . I had him pegged as a Racist anarchist all along.

November 9, 2013 at 5:36 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

You either agree with PT, Soakya, Fairmon, and Conservative or you're a liberal. I don't understand that rationale.

November 9, 2013 at 5:39 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Are you a liberal, gauss? And never lump me with conservative.

November 9, 2013 at 5:53 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Nope, I'm an independent. The GOP is catering to people like him and they seem to have garnished your support.

November 9, 2013 at 6:02 p.m.
fairmon said...

anniebelle said...

"America is a country built on the idea of promoting the general welfare"

false...unless you reject the constitution and the limits placed on the government. The words are not referring to welfare as politicians practice it.

November 9, 2013 at 6:58 p.m.
degage said...

roo, you keep saying you are not a socialist or a communist then you write a statement like the first paragraph of your 4:38 post. socialism all the way. When you claim the government can do a better job than the free market ,you are advocating socialism.

November 9, 2013 at 7:15 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

You don't invest in mutual funds, do you? You couldn't possibly, because if you did, you would be investing your money with many others, all hoping for a payout.

No I don't and why should I pay some manager 1.5% or more per year to do what I can do for myself better than any fund manager can do. Anyone can build their own mutual fund and react quicker to change than a huge mutual fund where 90% or more fail to do better than just buying the S&P.

alprova said....

Spreading the risk across all people is a very good plan, and in time it will prove itself to be everything promised.

Younger people are already forced to pay medical taxes to support those on Medicare/Medicaid. The tax system has headings to reflect political favoritism and wealth transfer and now insurance. I do not and will never accept that it is the governments role to force participation in charitable causes. I have and still say tax me if you must but don't dictate to me what I can and cannot do which includes which healthcare risk I want to insure for myself.

You do know that premiums are already set and adjusted according to age and they could be set and adjusted according to gender and limited to essential services if the insured preferred that limitation. Erectile dysfunction prescriptions are not essential nor is not getting it up life threatening. Most employers and even the UAW dropped that coverage when it became one of their major cost. That is just one of many mandated items in the unaffordable offerings.

November 9, 2013 at 7:21 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

gauss says "The GOP is catering to people like him and they seem to have garnished (sic) your support." Well Gauss I know quite a few R's. But none like Conservative.

November 9, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

^My computer auto-corrected for me. Should have read "garnered your support".

Conservative sounds eerily similar to Palin, Huckabee, and many of the other conservative pundits that seem to believe that Jesus belonged to their political movement.

November 9, 2013 at 7:43 p.m.
GameOn said...

The president said 8 to 9 million would lose coverage in 2010. He must have been unaware of his statement.

November 9, 2013 at 7:46 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Fairmon. The tax system has favored corporate insurance group policies for years. Why couldn't a person buying an individual plan receive the same tax breaks that a person receiving insurance through their employee receives?

November 9, 2013 at 7:56 p.m.
fairmon said...

Rickaroo said...

Fairmon, anything that promotes the welfare, health, and productivity of the citizenry and affects the wellbeing of the nation as a whole is best left in the hands of the government, not the free market, at least if the free market is not able or willing to meet said needs of the citizenry.

Properly and reasonably regulated without favoritism and without collusion free market competition will more efficiently meet the needs of the citizenry than a bloated government. The government does nothing to promote productivity but a lot to reduce it.

roo also said....If we lived in a nation as "free" and unregulated as you libertarians wanted, we would devolve to anarchy overnight.

I don't think you will find any suggestion from me that says there should be no regulations. It is not regulation when the government intervenes and selects winners and losers and dictates the cost or prices.

roo added.....But then, you would leave it up to the states to run things perfectly, wouldn't you? Every state with its own set of laws and regulations and even civil rights.

The federal government is empowered by the constitution in certain areas and should be limited to those. States do not have the authority of abort the constitution which includes those personal freedoms and rights therein provided.

Those that have found they can vote themselves wealth from the public treasury clamor for more and more, their envy and greed becomes more and more apparent.

November 9, 2013 at 7:57 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

anniebelle said...

that's what you get for 'assuming', degage. I don't go to 'liberal sites' as you suggest. I try to stick to 'news', not opinions. I went to USA Today, it's a national newspaper, been around for several years. Also, I wouldn't be bragging about being in your 70's and still ignorant of the world around you. I'm sure you would rather be in your 'bubble' than out here in reality. I hear 'ignorance is bliss'.

That’s an out and out lie.

You first post was copied from the communistic Nation Magazine web site and the second from USA Today.

November 9, 2013 at 9:42 p.m.
soakya said...

gauss,

could you clarify exactly who is the republican party catering to?

ricky, medicare has 87 trillion in unfunded liabilities and s.s. almost 17 trillion and they are a resounding success. you need to quit eating coco puffs.

November 10, 2013 at 12:12 a.m.
anniebelle said...

jt, are you really so biased that you consider USA Today a left wing newspaper? That is not a 'liberal site', it's a newspaper. I got nothing from the Nation Magazine, but there again, that's a news magazine, in case you're interested in some news. Anything to the left of Ted Cruz is communist to you morons. I see where that right-wing nut teevee station CBS is going to retract the 'out and out lie' they told about Benghazi on their Premiere show '60 minutes'. How quaint. I wonder if they'll fire Lara Logan like they did Dan Rather. I won't hold my breath. You people take such pride in the destruction of this country, it's disgusting to even have to breath the same air as you.

November 10, 2013 at 5:33 a.m.
anniebelle said...

and as usual, jesse and degage have to put their right-wing, kindergarten twist on every thing I write. I have never owned Dobermans, never will, and most of all never said I do. My dogs, Bull Mastiffs are much larger than Dobermans by at least 100 pounds. But that's just the republican way, don't let facts get in the way of your propaganda.

November 10, 2013 at 5:42 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Gladly Soakya. It's no secret there is a schism in the GOP. You have the die-hard "conservatives"; the Tea Party, Constitutionalists, etc. The leaders (Cruz, Rand Paul, Palin, etc.) advocate that the government is evil, yet they are part of the evil they speak against. They have let the evangelists invade the party and religion or guns (and don't take that as I'm against owning firearms; I have a few myself) dominates almost every issue. This faction appeals to most Southern and Midwestern republicans and that is their audience (generally, less-educated and middle-class republicans). Then you have the moderate republicans. These are most of your Northern and Western republicans. They are generally better educated and earn a better wage. They cater to a younger audience and the members that are more "liberal" on many social issues. Look at the results of the gubernatorial race in NJ, Christie won a huge percentage of women, independents, and Hispanic. It should be a no-brainer on who the 2016 GOP presidential candidate should be, but conservatives are already coming out speaking against Christie. If the GOP cannot unite under one candidate, they will have a difficult time recapturing the WH.

November 10, 2013 at 10:06 a.m.
soakya said...

thanks for responding but I'm not sure you answered the question who the republican party is catering to. if you're suggesting they are to catering to the tea party I would think the events of the past don't reflect that.

as far as Christie is concerned, the left have picked the last two candidates for the republican party and if they have their way this time they will pick Christie and we get the same results. another loss.

I'm hearing the same thing about Christie as I did McCain and Romney from the left, "now that's a republican I can vote for" nonsense. quit letting the media and the left pick the republican candidate.

November 10, 2013 at 1 p.m.
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