published Sunday, November 10th, 2013

GOP Civil War

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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AndrewLohr said...

Ha.

But coming from the party of Jefferson Davis and his loathsome paternalism (he had more bureaucrats than Lee soldiers), the party that thinks 2000+ pages of laws and 10,000+ of regulations can improve health insurance by forcing healthy people to pay sick people to be sick (Singapore lets you keep what you save, paying yourself to be healthy), the party that can run election websites but not (yet) insurance websites it's had three years to prepare, the party that resisted real civil rights and now takes the racist attitude that blacks need special help, but won't let them escape lousy tax-paid schools...hmph. The devil is the father of lies.

November 10, 2013 at 12:22 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Dumb and Dumber?

November 10, 2013 at 12:36 a.m.
alprova said...

Rhino is going to be heard more and more as the new year dawns.

The Republican Party is going to be full of infighting by those who want to save it, and those who want to take it over.

Those who want to take it over are going to have to find a new name for themselves, for the Tea Party has become very toxic.

November 10, 2013 at 12:47 a.m.
SeaSmokie59er said...

The GOP needs to admit they have a problem before they can fix it. Reince needs to realize that he is an American first then a Republican not the other way around. And Christian should fall in somewhere.

Great toon. This should inspire a constructive conversation.

November 10, 2013 at 4:45 a.m.
limric said...

Nice Clay. Nice Nucanuck.

It'll be fun to read the confederacy's defenders attempts at justification. Get ready for an angry stream of diversion, straw men and plain old bullsh!t. Libertarianism anyone?

"There was some crooked congressmen, and they never walked a mile.

They stole a crooked sixpence, from a poor mans stile.

Bought by crooked fat cats, dissent they toil to douse,

And they all schemed together, the capital their crooked house."

November 10, 2013 at 5:38 a.m.
anniebelle said...

The only reason the republicans came up with this new outlet for their un-American activities, Libertarianism, is because they didn't feel they were yet selfish enough. Ayn Rand anyone?

November 10, 2013 at 5:50 a.m.
anniebelle said...

Sounds like you need a ticket to Singapore, AndrewBore, perfect utopian place for an unabashed teabagger such as yourself. The fact that many needy residents live in the shadows of a rich society prompted a new campaign to raise awareness about the poor in Singapore. Singaporeans Against Poverty, launched in October and organized by Caritas Singapore, a Catholic social action group, is intended to operate for three to five years. At heart they really do believe in trickle-down and little else. They only get into social assistance when they can't avoid it and a problem is staring them in the face.

November 10, 2013 at 7 a.m.
rick1 said...

Andrew posted in part "the party that can run election websites but not (yet) insurance websites it's had three years to prepare"

Very true and wait until it comes time to collect the premiums.

Below is a link to a very good article by Jon Kingsdale, who oversaw the Massachusetts health insurance exchange from 2006 to 2010, is a managing director of the Wakely Consulting Group. Wakely has provided actuarial and other technical assistance for the Obama administration’s Affordable Care Act.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/beyond-healthcaregov-obamacares-other-challenges/2013/11/08/26cd7e3c-4702-11e3-bf0c-cebf37c6f484_print.html

November 10, 2013 at 8:16 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Antibelle won't be happy til we ALL need "social assistance". Sound about right, Belle?

November 10, 2013 at 8:27 a.m.
GameOn said...

I guess, Clay is insinuating conservatives are racists, as usual. So, why have they supported Allen West, Herman Cain, Ted Cruz, Mia Love, and Tim Scott? I have not seen any RINO African American candidates. How many have you seen in the Northeast? Dr. Ben Carson would make a great president! Attacks on Dr. Carson begin in 3,2,1..

November 10, 2013 at 8:47 a.m.
MickeyRat said...

Well that didn't take long Limerick.

PlainTruth, first at bat swings with a 'straw man'.

GameOn bunts with a 'diversion'.

November 10, 2013 at 8:53 a.m.
rick1 said...

PT, Annie is going to be furious with her liberal friend Al.

Here is what Al said last week about social programs in our country.

rick1 wrote: "Al, since your seem to like the healthcare program in Singapore would you also be receptive to our country following the policies of Singapore's other social programs?"

I would absolutely welcome a more rigid screening of those on welfare in this nation, to weed out those who are simply unwilling to work.

An elimination of all social programs for the elderly would definitely require a radical change in mindset in this nation, for Americans, as a general rule, are quite selfish, and far too many people are barely able to support themselves and their offspring.

Adding more mouths to feed, clothe, and to care for would bankrupt most Americans.

Is it possible to adopt a similar system in this nation? I'm sure it is possible, but you're going to have to start by molding such changes in mindset when people are young.

Such a change will have to be performed from the bottom up, as opposed to the top down.

Welfare is most definitely abused in this and many other nations, and it most definitely contributes to the creation of a purely lazy section of society, and I'm all for kicking people off of welfare who are obviously able to work for a living.

I stood in line at my local Bi-Lo the other night for twenty minutes, behind a young man and a young woman, who had what appeared to be a 6 month old baby. They appeared to be almost athletic. Nice clothes, clean, etc.

They were obviously making their monthly purchase of WIC voucher approved items. I heard a figure of $169.00 for what constituted a collection of baby food, formula, and other food items, which for some reason was a problem to ring up, for the cashier had to call for a manager five times during the transaction, which took literally three to five minutes for the manager to respond to, each time assistance was requested.

I almost got ticked off enough to abandon my buggy of carefully selected items, by price, that I was attempting to purchase.

I may be liberal, but I don't understand why a couple of people clearly able to work, are granted hundreds of dollars worth of free food each month, simply for popping out a kid.

I have learned not to shop for groceries between the 1st and the 3rd of the month, unless I just have to. WIC recipients clean the shelves and waiting times are atrocious.

November 3, 2013 at 1:15 p.m.

So, annie, you have anything you want to say to Al?

November 10, 2013 at 9 a.m.
degage said...

Mickey, And it didn't take long for you, Al, Annie, and limric to attack those with a different opinion. Just waiting for the rest of the libs to chime in.

November 10, 2013 at 9:03 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Rick, sounds like a major schism on the left. Alpo vs Belle. Wow. They best mend this divide afore the next election. A major battle between the far left and the far left.

November 10, 2013 at 9:08 a.m.
limric said...

How did I attack anyone with a differing opinion Dégagé?

November 10, 2013 at 9:18 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Limmie says "...stream of diversion, straw men and plain old bullsh!t." sounds like an attack to be, Lem

November 10, 2013 at 9:29 a.m.
tifosi said...

HEY!!! It's the flag of a defeated enemy of the United States of America.

November 10, 2013 at 9:36 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Didn't take long for Tiffy to barf his predictable south bashing.

November 10, 2013 at 9:39 a.m.
tifosi said...

Denying truth PT? Oh yeah... that is your modus operandi.

November 10, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Not at all Tiffy. Just marvel at your predictability.

November 10, 2013 at 9:51 a.m.
tifosi said...

I am glad that you think I am marvelous. :)

November 10, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.
Maximus said...

As a black man, and having ancestors that fought for the Stars And Bars, I kind of like the elephant festooned with the historic flag. I think it is especially appropriate since we are celebrating the 150th anniversary of The Battle Of Chickamauga where Confederate Generals Bragg and Longstreet, fighting for states rights by the way, along with some of my relatives, killed 16,170 Yankees pushing big government union General Rosecran around like the Mocs pushed around Wofford yesterday. No I really think Clay and all you lovers of Clay The Victimized Military Brat have it wrong. The Rhino Republican's do not come from the Red States, they come from Blue states like Ohio, Michigan, etc. where they try to be Fiscal Conservatives and Social Liberals supporting abortion, gays marriage, Obomination Scare, etc. My question to Rhino Republicans in the North and Midwest, such as Chris Christie from N.J., if it is possible to be a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, which it is not, why can't you Gov. Christie or Speaker Bohner convince your STATE to vote for a Republican president. Catholic Mafia New Jersey and Union Thug state with a way overrated college football team Ohio both supported Barry The Welfare Pimp Insurance Huckster in the last two presidential elections. Speaking of Barry The Welfare Pimp....how below the office and how cheesey is it to have our President hustling a terrible health plan to the American public......."Uhhh....heah folks......this is great insurance!" Wow! :)

November 10, 2013 at 10:03 a.m.
klifnotes said...

rick1 said:

I stood in line at my local Bi-Lo the other night for twenty minutes, behind a young man and a young woman, who had what appeared to be a 6 month old baby. They appeared to be almost athletic. Nice clothes, clean, etc. They were obviously making their monthly purchase of WIC voucher approved items. I heard a figure of $169.00 for what constituted a collection of baby food, formula, and other food items, which for some reason was a problem to ring up, for the cashier had to call for a manager five times during the transaction, which took literally three to five minutes for the manager to respond to, each time assistance was requested. I almost got ticked off enough to abandon my buggy of carefully selected items, by price, that I was attempting to purchase. I may be liberal, but I don't understand why a couple of people clearly able to work, are granted hundreds of dollars worth of free food each month, simply for popping out a kid.

!?Just because that couple was purchasing items on WIC vouchers doesn't mean they don't both have jobs. It could also indicate they have jobs, but their salaries, even combined, are considered below the poverty level. They're known as the working poor who often work more hours than you and I do, but their salaries meet federal standards for still being considered poor. Social programs such as WIC, foodstamps are also based on what a family spends (outcome) as well as what they earn (income). I've worked with individuals applying for assistance, and believe me when I say most would prefer not to have to use such programs. ?!

Your biggest leechers sucking the gov. tits are corporate America and the wealthy who will go out and buy acres of land, claim it farm land, and are paid by the government to produce nothing. Check out some of your wealthy politicians who claim to be farmers. Then investigate how much they're receiving in farm subsidies from the federal government. BILLIONS!! at last count. That $169.00 in milk, baby formula are peanuts in comparison to what those wealthy politician farmers are getting in kickbacks from the federal gov.

November 10, 2013 at 10:03 a.m.
degage said...

Tiffy, just remember the democrats of the south lost the war. A defeated enemy! My neighbors are hard line democrats and they still fly the confederate flag.

November 10, 2013 at 10:03 a.m.
degage said...

Klifnotes, The worst of the rich buying land and claim it as farm land are Obama's buddy's in Hollywood. Check them out!

November 10, 2013 at 10:13 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

If the different factions of the GOP don't unite under one moderate candidate (and that is the governor from NJ), the GOP has next to a zero percent chance of winning the WH. If Romney would have chosen to remain true and not try to play a conservative on TV, the election could have been different. 2012 should have been the grand example that TV kookie "conservatism", which may win a congressional district or senate race is some states, will not win a national election. But conservatives are already coming out against Christie, so this could be fun in 2016. As an independent, I would vote for Christie, but I absolutely will not vote for a candidate that proclaims government is evil as they continue to cash a paycheck and receive the benefits of being part of that evil (i.e: Cruz, Paul, Ryan, etc.).

November 10, 2013 at 10:15 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Gaussie, I guess it depends on what you consider "moderate". Any Republican to the Right of Marx, is a right wing kook according to you Leftist Dems. "Moderate" R's don't fair too well in presidential elections, in case you missed it.

November 10, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.
Maximus said...

Gaus....a moderate gets one thing.....An ass kicking by the mean, hate filled, scheming, lying, middle class hating, herd them into a special interest group and get their vote, liberal Democrats. That's it. Christie would be another Romney and the guy can't even do one push up. Come on man!

November 10, 2013 at 10:36 a.m.
rick1 said...

klifnotes, go back and re read my post. What I posted is from your liberal buddy Alprova. That is his response to a question I had asked him.

November 10, 2013 at 11:17 a.m.
jesse said...

Anxious to see how Klifnotes gets the egg off his face on this one!!

November 10, 2013 at 11:35 a.m.
Maximus said...

Our best chance to defeat old man plugs Biden or fat, puffy, menopause brain, "what difference does it make", lying about Benghazi Hillary "Puts Up With Hubby" Clinton is to take a CRUZ down to Tejas.........Ted Cruz is the answer. Again, Christie does not even have enough gravitas, power, or support to convince his own state to support a Republican for President. You moderates and Rhinos are an easy mark for the Democrats. They laugh at you and so do I as you follow your wife around the grocery store carrying her purse and believing in Democrat messaging like global warming. As my boy George Strait sings...."You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything". You Rhino's need to grow a pair. Cruz is the man and will clean the shop floor with Hillaries fat ars.

November 10, 2013 at 11:43 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Hilldebeast: Don't nominate; indict.

November 10, 2013 at 11:57 a.m.
limric said...

Umm PlainTruth,

My statement was merely a prediction of future commentary. There is no "attack (ing) those with a different opinion." You're externalizing your condescension by attempting to rationalize, and then fight something that doesn't even exist; ie. twisting at windmills.

It is, I'm sad to say, your forte'

November 10, 2013 at 11:57 a.m.
jesse said...

Cruz has about as much chance of being pres. as i do of shooting 59 on the golf course tomorrow!

November 10, 2013 at 12:05 p.m.
rick1 said...

PT, thought you may find this article interesting since the media would never talk about Hillary being fired during the Watergate Hearings because she was unethical and a liar.

Yes that was 40 years ago and people change, but Hillary hasn't. She is even more unethical and a bigger liar then she was 40 years ago.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/hillary-clinton-fired-for-lies-unethical-behavior/

November 10, 2013 at 12:09 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Cruz will suffer the same fate as Rick Perry did. And Christie is not another Romney. I don't think he would pretend to be a "conservative" as Romney did in the last election. Again, Christie got a large % of the woman, independent, and Hispanic vote in his election on Tuesday. Something Romney did not in the last election. If the GOP doesn't try to pursue some votes from these groups, it will be impossible for them to win the election. Maximus, you are delusional.

PT, thanks for justifying my comment that if someone doesn't follow to a "T" your political ideology, they have to be a liberal. And your moderate presidential comment is simply untrue. W, Bush Sr., and Reagan are all moderates compared to what is considered a conservative today.

November 10, 2013 at 12:15 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Limmy: We all have our forte's, I suppose. Yours is most certainly gilded, ornamented, prose.

November 10, 2013 at 12:15 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

rick, I've read that good article before. Anyone on the Left (especially the Hilldebeast & The Anointed) are pretty much given a pass from the "media" (a wing of the Left). The same cultists that blindly follow The Anointed, also follow the Beast. (She has no accomplishments to my knowledge, other than marrying well)

November 10, 2013 at 12:20 p.m.

The Republican Party, which was the Party I supported for decades, is now pretty much worthless. They're afraid to take on Obama because he's the first mulatto President. Cowards. They don't even have the stones to point out his obvious corruption and lies. Our country is too far gone, to full of ignorant public school grads, and is so obsessed with celebrity, that Hillary Clinton will win easily. So you might as well go down swinging and nominate Cruz. McCain and Romney were a couple of p*s . Christie is just a rino, nothing more.

YEAH! Now that we've had our first "black" president, it'll be really cool to have our first female president! Go Hillary, you go go girl!

November 10, 2013 at 12:21 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

zablee: Obama was elected for the wrong reason. Doing the same with Hilldebeast just compounds the problem. Plenty of honest, qualified women out there.

November 10, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.
soakya said...

as far as Christie is concerned, the left have picked the last two candidates for the republican party and if they have their way this time they will pick Christie and we get the same results. another loss.

I'm hearing the same thing about Christie as I did McCain and Romney from the left, "now that's a republican I can vote for" nonsense. quit letting the media and the left pick the republican candidate.

stay in jersey governor and keep begging for that federal tax dollar while criticizing washington. put up a true fiscal conservative.

November 10, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

There is no such thing as a "true fiscal conservative" in Washington. It's a contradiction.

November 10, 2013 at 1:23 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

And Rick Perry had his hand out for Stimulus dollars and then campaigns against it in 2012. A wonderful representation of hypocrisy.

November 10, 2013 at 1:24 p.m.
alprova said...

Kliffnotes wrote: "!?Just because that couple was purchasing items on WIC vouchers doesn't mean they don't both have jobs. It could also indicate they have jobs, but their salaries, even combined, are considered below the poverty level."

First of all, the sentences you block quoted were written by myself a few days ago. rick revived them for whatever reason to pit me and anniebelle into a wrestling match, I suppose.

I'm fully aware how welfare is supposed to work in this nation, but I question the need to distribute food to everyone who claims to be impoverished.

Two people working minimum wage jobs can clear $500 a week, which should be more than enough, spent wisely, to support a family of three.

People whipping out an EBT card or WIC coupons, who are dressed in duds costing a hundred bucks, talking away on cell phones, and loading those groceries into a two year old vehicle, are not impoverished.

"They're known as the working poor who often work more hours than you and I do, but their salaries meet federal standards for still being considered poor. Social programs such as WIC, foodstamps are also based on what a family spends (outcome) as well as what they earn (income). I've worked with individuals applying for assistance, and believe me when I say most would prefer not to have to use such programs."

I'm sure that there are many people who do live a bare bones existence in this nation, but there are way too many who do not, who instead game the system for all they can squeeze out of it, under false pretenses.

"That $169.00 in milk, baby formula are peanuts in comparison to what those wealthy politician farmers are getting in kickbacks from the federal gov."

Agreed, but enough is not being done to verify the true living conditions of "the working poor," to assure that welfare handouts are not being given to those who are able to take care of themselves.

I know far too many people on a personal level who receive EBT benefits, who spend a hundred or more bucks a month buying scratch-off lottery tickets and enjoying many other creature comforts, compared to someone like those of us debating this very issue, who are budgeting our food expenses alongside everything else we pay for each month.

I don't judge people, based on one encounter in a grocery store, but I question their true needs all the time in my mind, based on what I see in those brief encounters.

November 10, 2013 at 1:32 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Tiffy, just remember the democrats of the south lost the war. A defeated enemy!"

Most people would agree that the political parties of the 1800's have both completely reversed themselves and resemble near nothing that they used to represent.

"My neighbors are hard line democrats and they still fly the confederate flag."

I seriously doubt that if it is true, that they are "hard-line Democrats."

November 10, 2013 at 1:36 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: ""Moderate" R's don't fair too well in presidential elections, in case you missed it."

You're absolutely wrong about that. Every Republican President elected since any one of us who participate in this forum have been alive, has been a moderate.

Can you name one Republican President, who even came close to espousing this Tea-Party associated crap, who won?

Every single religious conservative, was shot down, one by one, in 2012, and the Republicans offered up a Mormon, who betrayed and is still denouncing his own legacy, RomneyCare, which is why he is now not in the White House.

Both of the last two Republican Presidential contenders chose Tea-Party associates for running mates, and they both lost.

If Chris Christie keeps running from his moderate record as Governor of New Jersey, the way he has been doing the past few days, he won't stand a chance against Hillary in 2016.

That is, assuming that he is even given the chance to run as a serious contender in 2016. Chances are, the Republicans will again try to force another ultra-conservative candidate on the American people, who will be rejected yet again.

Christie is the Republican's only hope. The sooner they understand that, and the sooner they start to emulate him, the sooner they have half a chance to govern any of the three branches of Government after next year.

If they keep allowing the ultra-right to control what goes on in the House, they are going to lose all control next year.

November 10, 2013 at 1:55 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "Anxious to see how Klifnotes gets the egg off his face on this one!!"

Give kliffnotes a break. Everyone misreads now and then, and everyone makes a mistake now and then in responding to the wrong person.

November 10, 2013 at 1:57 p.m.
degage said...

Really Al, and you know this for a fact? I am the one living next to them and I should know how hard line they are. So it seems because you say so I have to be a liar. I have heard that line before about political parties reversing, Byrd was KKK and he remained democrat until his death along with all his cronies.

November 10, 2013 at 2:04 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Limmy: We all have our forte's, I suppose. Yours is most certainly gilded, ornamented, prose."

In terms of intelligence, wit, and the ability to make any point, limric is way out of your league.

And unlike yourself, he rarely, if ever, attacks people on a personal level. He doesn't need to. He always has a good point to make whenever he fires up his keyboard.

You have defined your existence and purpose, because every single one of your posts offered into this forum are personal attacks on someone.

Why? Because you never have a point, don't know how to make a point, and worse, you can't begin to back up a thing you offer.

You just take a dump, pull your pants up, and leave. You never wipe or flush.

November 10, 2013 at 2:09 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

klifnotes said...

Your biggest leechers sucking the gov. tits are corporate America and the wealthy who will go out and buy acres of land, claim it farm land, and are paid by the government to produce nothing. Check out some of your wealthy politicians who claim to be farmers. Then investigate how much they're receiving in farm subsidies from the federal government. BILLIONS!! at last count. That $169.00 in milk, baby formula are peanuts in comparison to what those wealthy politician farmers are getting in kickbacks from the federal gov.

Sounds to me this is a government failing rather than corporate America. It’s hard to fault people or organizations that legally accept gifts being handed out with both hands by an unlimited government. Many people call for smaller government when what we really need is “limited” government. Government should be restricted to doing those few things that a free people and markets truly can’t or shouldn’t do. Those things that government needs to do such as national defense, a legal system, social welfare for the truly indigent/disabled and natural monopolies should be robust enough with stringent oversight to properly serve the nation. These programs need not be made small just for that end but all others ... pound sand.

November 10, 2013 at 2:14 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "...that was 40 years ago and people change, but Hillary hasn't. She is even more unethical and a bigger liar then she was 40 years ago."

You know the right-wing cheerleaders are scared sh1tless when they start dragging out the happenings that occurred 40 years ago, as a means by which to discredit a political opponent.

Bill and Hillary Clinton are second in line to the most vilified American politician, and yet they are more popular and loved by more people than ever.

Keep up the good work cheerleaders!! You're just driving people to the polls to vote for 'em.

November 10, 2013 at 2:15 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpy,the majority of your posts directed yo me involve scatalogical references. So who is in the cesspool?

November 10, 2013 at 2:19 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

You just take a dump, pull your pants up, and leave. You never wipe or flush.

Where as you just have projectile keyboard diarrhea for interminable and unproductive periods of unimaginable horror for the rest of us as you shamelessly expose yourself. For all that is good, kind, and for God’s sake please light a match.

November 10, 2013 at 2:33 p.m.
alprova said...

degagfe wrote: "Really Al, and you know this for a fact?"

Did I offer my response as a "fact?" Nope. I said that I "seriously doubted" your tale.

"I am the one living next to them and I should know how hard line they are."

You have to know how unbelievable that is. No self-respecting Democrat would ever fly a Confederate flag.

"So it seems because you say so I have to be a liar."

Nope. Just confused. It wouldn't be the first time.

"I have heard that line before about political parties reversing, Byrd was KKK and he remained democrat until his death along with all his cronies."

And I too have heard that crap about Byrd for decades as well. The fact is that the man retracted his racist past and his brief KKK involvement long before he died.

http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201006280099

On the other hand, the Republicans welcomed South Carolina's Strom Thurmond in 1964 with open arms, when he bolted from the Democrat Party, who until his death, never repented his racist past.

Republican minority leader Trent Lott. at least had the shame amd wisdom to resign when he revived his long held beliefs in a moment of alligator mouth, while praising Strom Thurmond at his 100th birthday celebration.

Three years later, Trent Lott's home was wiped out by Katrina.

If you have a neighbor flying a Confederate flag, I again, reiterate my strong doubt that they are in any manner associated with the Democrats.

Perhaps they are one of these;

http://www.confederateamericanpride.com/CNP.html

November 10, 2013 at 2:44 p.m.
soakya said...

there's nothing more selfish or more cowardly than stealing something someone has earned to give to another who has not earned it and using the government to do your dirty work.

November 10, 2013 at 2:46 p.m.
limric said...

PlainTruth,

I disagree. Obama was elected for the right reasons in 2008. What transpired thereafter is a different story - altogether. HEY – NO ‘Airplane’ references - IF you don’t mind.

Hillary? The usual suspects are already throwing coals into the fire’box’ (pun intended) of the Clinton locomotive. I don’t however think she’ll get the nomination. People are wising up to the fact that she’s just another utterly corrupt politician; [paraphrasing] almost indistinguishable from Bush and Obama’s militaristic, corporatist policies garnished by big money donors from Wall Street and other plutocrats.

Notice: She is a cheerleader for the EIC (Enemy Industrial Complex), globalization, NAFTA, the WTO and the sovereignty-stripping Trans-Pacific Partnership. Wars of Empire don’t bother her AT ALL! She gave some 'lucrative' talks for an audience of Goldman Sachs muckity mucks and their clients. AND, a few weeks ago, she gave war criminal, ‘Republican’ Henry Kissinger, a big, smiling hug at a public event. "Snuggles Henry, tee hee." BARF!!

That’s all I need to sum up the wretched harridan that is Hillary Clinton, and her slick as Crisco on a doorknob husband.

And if I may add a last caustic stern shot, she is less of a woman than Bradley Manning!

BOOYA!

November 10, 2013 at 2:52 p.m.
alprova said...

Hey limiric, if you believe Hillary will not be nominated, then who will be nominated by the Democrats?

November 10, 2013 at 3 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "...that was 40 years ago and people change, but Hillary hasn't. She is even more unethical and a bigger liar then she was 40 years ago."

You know the right-wing cheerleaders are scared sh1tless when they start dragging out the happenings that occurred 40 years ago, as a means by which to discredit a political opponent.

Bill and Hillary Clinton are second in line to the most vilified American politician, and yet they are more popular and loved by more people than ever.

Keep up the good work cheerleaders!! You're just driving people to the polls to vote for 'em.

Hillary Clinton's net favorability has fallen an astounding 18 points since the start of the year and is still going down.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/octpoll.pdf

Since she has reentered the political arena people are recalling why they once found her such a despicable creature .... So good luck with that.

November 10, 2013 at 3:08 p.m.
jesse said...

Uncle Joe??

November 10, 2013 at 3:08 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Limmy: Bwahahaha Good stuff!

See, Alpu? Me n Limmy tight. Always have been

November 10, 2013 at 3:21 p.m.
limric said...

I don’t know Alprova. And frankly, I don’t care. I WILL NOT vote for any of the two Mafiosi gangs currently extorting the country and adding gasoline to fires around the world. That being said, the only two Democrats I would even remotely consider are Russ Feingold and Elizabeth Warren. Then again...no.

Sorry.

November 10, 2013 at 3:26 p.m.
limric said...

Uncle Joe Jesse? Yer settin yerself up ya'know.

November 10, 2013 at 3:27 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Hey Lim: How about the (I) Bernie Sanders?

November 10, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.
limric said...

"There's nothing more selfish or more cowardly than stealing something someone has earned to give to another who has not earned it and using the government to do your dirty work."

Ohhh, like these, right??

LOCKHEED MARTIN CORPORATION THE BOEING COMPANY RAYTHEON COMPANY GENERAL DYNAMICS CORPORATION NORTHROP GRUMMAN CORPORATION UNITED TECHNOLOGIES CORPORATION HUNTINGTON INGALLS INDUSTRIES INC. SAIC INC. L-3 COMMUNICATIONS HOLDINGS INC. BAE SYSTEMS PLC MCKESSON CORPORATION URS CORPORATION BECHTEL GROUP INC. BOOZ ALLEN HAMILTON HOLDING CORPORATION COMPUTER SCIENCES CORPORATION VERITAS CAPITAL FUND II L.P. THE HUMANA INC. HEALTH NET INC. TRIWEST HEALTHCARE ALLIANCE CORP. BELL BOEING JOINT PROJECT OFFICE ROYAL DUTCH SHELL PLC SUPREME GROUP HOLDING SARL UNITED LAUNCH ALLIANCE L.L.C. GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPANY HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY GENERAL ATOMIC TECHNOLOGIES CORPORATION BABCOCK & WILCOX COMPANY THE HONEYWELL INTERNATIONAL INC. TEXTRON INC. CACI INTERNATIONAL INC BATTELLE MEMORIAL INSTITUTE INC ITT CORPORATION HARRIS CORPORATION LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL SECURITY LLC BP P.L.C. FLUOR CORPORATION WORLD FUEL SERVICES CORP MANTECH INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION JACOBS ENGINEERING GROUP INC. ALLIANT TECHSYSTEMS INC. CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY LAWRENCE LIVERMORE NATIONAL SECURITY LLC VALERO ENERGY CORPORATION OSHKOSH CORPORATION INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS MACHINES CORPORATION AMERISOURCEBERGEN CORPORATION COINS 'N THINGS INC. MERCK & CO. INC. FEDEX CORPORATION

Oh there’s lots more too.

November 10, 2013 at 3:30 p.m.
limric said...

PlainTruth,

Please refer to the third sentence of my 3:26 post.

November 10, 2013 at 3:32 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

GaussianInteger said...

And Christie is not another Romney. I don't think he would pretend to be a "conservative" as Romney did in the last election. Again, Christie got a large % of the woman, independent, and Hispanic vote in his election on Tuesday. Something Romney did not in the last election.

"I'm a conservative. I've governed as a conservative in this state, and I think that's led to some people disagreeing with me in our state, because it's generally a left-of-center, blue state." - Chris Christie 11-5-13

And so it begins .... Right?

November 10, 2013 at 3:33 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

While nobody can deny there is welfare and food stamp abuse from those who are gaming the system, that is NOT what has brought this country to the economic impasse we are experiencing today. But Republicans and conservatives in general keep pointing to welfare fraud and dependence as an excuse to cut benefits to the bare bone, all in the name of "tough love." All the while they turn a blind eye to the real takers and leeches, the corporate fat cats and the rich that klifnotes mentioned, who have succeeded in rigging the system to their favor with countless tax loop holes, dodges, and cheats. We could get more revenue from them - through a mere 1% FTT (financial transaction tax), raising capital gains taxes a mere 5%, taking away the cap on Social Security taxes, and doing away with the many obvious other ways they are cheating the system - than we could ever hope to get by nickel-and-diming the poor and elderly from cutting welfare, food stamps, and SS benefits.

But the conservatives never talk about the rich fraudsters and cheats. To do so is sacrilege, as far as they are concerned. After all, those are the precious "job creators!" They are paying the least amount of taxes they have ever paid and you'd think that if trickle-down worked, we'd be awash in jobs. But where are those jobs?? Oh well, I'm sure they are coming any day now. Maybe we just haven't hit the magic number yet. Maybe we need to take their taxes all the way down to zero and then they will start creating all those wonderful jobs. That's it...no taxes whatsoever on the rich, and no benefits whatsoever for the poor and the unemployed, no health insurance for the uninsured, and no more social security for the elderly... and then we will have attained that conservative nirvana that trickle-down is supposed to bring about. Yeah, I'm sure that's what it is.. trickle down just hasn't hit that magic number yet. I guess if you keep believing in a make-believe economics theory long enough, it just might work, huh?

November 10, 2013 at 3:43 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Gaussy: A little early, no?

November 10, 2013 at 3:44 p.m.
soakya said...

where are the jobs?? ask the president. he said he could fix the economy over 5 years ago. look what happened when the government shut down last month, we add over 200,000 jobs

November 10, 2013 at 3:48 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Roo, you really have a hard-ass for the rich, huh? Are you underpaid?

November 10, 2013 at 3:52 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Soakya, you righties and libertarians keep saying it's not the government's responsibility to create jobs. If trickle-down worked, we wouldn't need a jobs program. Low taxes on the rich are supposed to free them up to create jobs. They are paying practically the lowest taxes they have ever paid....so where are those jobs? If Obama even put together a serious jobs program, the Republicans wouldn't go along with him anyway, and you would only use that as another excuse to label him a socialist. My god, there is no winning with you wing-nuts. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

November 10, 2013 at 3:59 p.m.
limric said...

It’s funny as hell. It’s way way too early to speculate about 2016, but Christie already scares Democrats because he seems electable, and already scares Republicans for some of the same reasons the Democrats have, but but but...he’s not an automatonic (sp) follower of Tea Party dogma. Ahhuugh!!

The horror - The horror!

PlainTruth,

What happened to the broken record of jobs jobs jobs the Republicans were 'seriously' going to address in 2010 Hmmm?? BUPKIS - thats what!!

You're wrong about Rickaroo. He doesn't have a problem with the rich, he has a problem with "rich fraudsters and cheats", Socialism for the rich, Capitalism for the rest and the fact that "conservatives never want to talk about" that.

There's a difference.

November 10, 2013 at 4 p.m.
soakya said...

limric, if you don't mind how are they stealing because I just might agree with you. because I can name a number of local corporations and local politicians, both sides of the aisle who are stealing from taxpayers thru incentives and abatements. VW, wacker, amazon, whirlpool, Alstom, and a whole host of others but I bet you support this corporate welfare. tell me i'm wrong.

November 10, 2013 at 4:01 p.m.
limric said...

"tell me i'm wrong."

You're wrong.

November 10, 2013 at 4:04 p.m.
soakya said...

limric, great now convince the rest of your liberal friends PILOT agreements,tax increment financing and giving incentives is corporate welfare

November 10, 2013 at 4:07 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Well, Limmie. What happened to closing gitmo, transparency, immigration reform, holding Benghazi miscreants accountable, holding thug IRS agents accountable, and so forth?

November 10, 2013 at 4:08 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

PT, I have no problem at all with the rich. There are some very decent people who are rich and I do not begrudge them their wealth in any way. I'm not rich myself but financially comfortable. It is only the greedy bastards that I have a problem with, who believe that their wealth distinguishes them from ordinary folks and who think they are "entitled" to the tax loopholes and advantages that have been lavished upon them for too long.

November 10, 2013 at 4:08 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

In Maxie's 10:03 post it's obvious that he's more in favor of states' rights for the Old South than for emancipation of the slaves. I suppose that's a sign that we have complete racial freedom now, when a black man can be free enough, not to mention stupid enough, to align himself with the ones who wanted to keep his people enslaved.

November 10, 2013 at 4:23 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

If Christie is going the "conservative" route, he's screwed. The GOP needs a bigger portion of the Hispanic vote, and they equate conservative to anti-immigration. It will never work. For some reason, the GOP is stuck believing that winning the white, male vote wins elections.

November 10, 2013 at 4:38 p.m.
rick1 said...

roo, posted " It is only the greedy bastards that I have a problem with, who believe that their wealth distinguishes them from ordinary folks and who think they are "entitled" to the tax loopholes and advantages that have been lavished upon them for too long."

Do you mean Obama's good friend Warren Buffett whose company is still fighting the IRS over $1 billion in back taxes?

Or when Buffet says the rich should pay more but he has never offered to pay extra to the IRS each year.

Or could you be referring to Obama himself who himself takes advantages of tax shelters and claims all of the deductions he can.

Remember Obama also said the rich should pay more but he never went back to amend his taxes and not take those deductions.

See roo, liberals are happy with everyone else paying more in taxes as long as they don't have to pay more.

By the way what is your definition of greedy? Who determines when someone has too much?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/04/an_easy_way_for_president_obama_to_pay_his_fair_share.html

http://freebeacon.com/obama-family-tax-shelter/

November 10, 2013 at 5:18 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

rick1, do you ever read anything that doesn't have conservative bias?

November 10, 2013 at 5:29 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

And Roo, then there's the grand Poobah of the Left, Georgie Soros. The guy that nearly bankrupted the Bank of England. A peach of a guy.

November 10, 2013 at 5:31 p.m.
rick1 said...

Gauss, tell me what is not factual in what I presented?

November 10, 2013 at 5:41 p.m.
yddem said...

Rick1 said International Criminal Court accused Obama of crimes against humanity.

Not true, but some folks from Egypt did make that claim to the Criminal Court. Read his link and recognize that Rick's statement is not true.

Even if what Rick said had been true, however, what was the purpose in making the statement and providing the link? About as much of a point as stating that George W Bush has already been convicted of war crimes and the transcript of the hearing sent to the Criminal Court, as shown by this link:

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/05/12/bush-convicted-of-war-crimes-in-absentia/

November 10, 2013 at 5:42 p.m.
rick1 said...

yddem, you are correct I misspoke, Obama is accused of crimes against humanity.

November 10, 2013 at 5:51 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

He is also accused of not paying his fines for overdue library books.

November 10, 2013 at 7:01 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 posted: "International Criminal Court accuses Obama of crimes against humanity."

Oh great!!! Another headline for an article that contains no information as to how EXACTLY it is that Obama has done anything wrong in Egypt.

The only thing I read in it was that some are upset because Obama didn't send in troops to blow that damn country apart.

Well Boo hoo....

I hope they're holding their breath in anticipation that he will actually be brought up on charges...

November 10, 2013 at 7:03 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^. Just a misunderstanding

November 10, 2013 at 9:48 p.m.
facyspacy said...

Mr president, if you like your apology, you can keep your apology, period!

November 11, 2013 at 12:53 a.m.
hambone said...

This forum has reached the point where all those posting are repeating an old post. It's time to just use numbers.

jesse...... leads off with his 38

plaintruth responds with 142

Rick1 drops his 79

alpova slips in the old 99

Andrew spells out his whole responds because no two of his are alike

November 11, 2013 at 6:02 a.m.
fairmon said...

anniebelle said yesterday....

it's disgusting to even have to breath the same air as you.

You don't have to you know. You can not breath or leave and find a country where no one is allowed to dissent or offer a different opinion.

November 11, 2013 at 7:41 a.m.
fairmon said...

Limric.... Are you suggesting the government should not be showing favoritism to corporations and should not be deciding who will be winners and losers? Are you suggesting they should cease using their tools of manipulation? You are bordering on endorsing the principles of libertarians.

November 11, 2013 at 7:56 a.m.
fairmon said...

pick your poison...a party that has untamed, untrained people with no owner/leader or a party of parrots that wait for the owner to say what is to be repeated. Both seeking to control and prosper at the expense of those that can least afford it.

The greedy want anyone with more then they have to have more extracted from them. Their chant is "they" should pay their fair share but they are unable to define what a fair share is. They support tax and spend in hopes a few crumbs will come their way.

Then there are the greedy that claim putting more in the hands of those with wealth will increase the trickle of crumbs to those in need.

November 11, 2013 at 8:15 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

142

November 11, 2013 at 8:31 a.m.
klifnotes said...

alprova said:

Two people working minimum wage jobs can clear $500 a week, which should be more than enough, spent wisely, to support a family of three.

I don't doubt your sincerity, al. However, I'm sadden by your lack of knowledge on the issue of social programs and how they work. Sure, two people working minimum wage jobs can clear 500 a week. First the key word even in your own statement is can. That doesn't mean two people working jobs in the same household will. Second, social programs such a foodstamps,welfare etc. aren't based alone on what families bring in, but what they have to spend out in the way of rent, utilities, expenses to get back and forth to work, medical bills etc. and other financial issues that may crop up without notice.

People whipping out an EBT card or WIC coupons, who are dressed in duds costing a hundred bucks, talking away on cell phones, and loading those groceries into a two year old vehicle, are not impoverished.

How a person is dressed is no indicator of what they can afford. How do you know that person didn't borrow clothing from someone else? Didn't obtain their clothing from a thrift store? I've donated good reusable clothing and furniture items to places like the community kitchen thrift store. Some with the tags still on them. A skirt I donated once with a $98.00 price tag on it was later sold for $1.00 at one of those charitable gift stores. I was so proud when volunteering at a local service that provides to families to see a woman wearing the skirt and she began to proudly talk about where she'd purchased the skirt and how much she'd payed for it and saying the price tag was still on it when she purchased it. I never let on that it was one of many items I'd donated to the very store she mentioned. I was just happy that such a small act of generosity could brighten another persons life so.

As for cellphones? They can now be had cheaper than landline (house) phones. For as little as 10 bucks or less and pay as you go. Meaning you buy the minutes and when they're all used up, you either buy some more or not. Minutes can be had on a cellphone for as little as 5 buck. So don't judge alphy, less you be judged, and don't buy into the rhetoric. These people who would take away the safety net of social programs, won't stop at foodstamp, welfare, or WIC, they'll go after the ones you've admitted you benefit from too.

November 11, 2013 at 9:04 a.m.
Maximus said...

Limric, you are either unemployed on the guvment dime like Stage 4 Alprova or you are a trust fund brat living off your parents or grandparents accomplishments. Good stuff on fatty Hillary but condemning corporate America is a dead give away that you are a well read pot smoking hippy authority on everything. My daughter used to date a guy like you until she finally wished up that "the Dude" was going absolutely nowhere with his life. The result.....she married a Republican lawyer and is now driving the kids to Baylor in a Mercedes. :)

November 11, 2013 at 9:15 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Kliffie says "These people who would take away the safety net of social programs, won't stop at foodstamp, welfare, or WIC, they'll go after the ones you've admitted you benefit from too." Who are THESE people, Kliffette? No one wants to completely do away with social programs…it's a matter of quality control. Should these programs not be monitored?

November 11, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.
alprova said...

Greed is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort.

You can't call anyone who believes in sharing the wealth of this nation "greedy." The greedy ones are those who have more than enough wealth for themselves, who loath to pay a reasonable tax on their wealth.

It's been awhile, but I used to listen to Dave Ramsey, who always promoted that it was smart to have six months worth of income saved.

Using that benchmark, which I agree with wholeheartedly, if someone has more than that amount in liquid cash, they are rich, perhaps even in the eyes of God.

What does a $400,000 home do that a $40,000 home does not?

If someone owns 40 acres of land, and that land is not being used to raise food, that land is being wasted.

The system of taxation used to be such that only those who could afford to pay taxes, funded the Government. Those who are rich only seek ways to pay less, in terms of percentage of what they have, than those around themselves.

And unless the rich are taxed like they used to be, deficit spending and a rising debt is going to keep increasing. There is no way around it.

I would be very much in favor of our politicians fostering an environment that would persuade manufacturers to relocate back into this nation, by offering favorable tax rates on any and all repatriated funds up to an abolition of all taxes on such funds, protection from unions, if they open up factories that employ no less than 100 people, full time, paying $10.00 an hour or more, with benefits, and remain in business for no less than ten years.

Both Republicans and Democrats could have spent the last four years working to revive jobs in this nation, by instituting such a plan, but each has been preventing the other from scoring political points, and has been doing virtually nothing for this nation.

Voting every incumbent would solve the problem, but that is not going to happen.

So get ready for another year of political posturing and lying lips, because very few running for office have a record of achievement that they can run on.

November 11, 2013 at 9:31 a.m.
alprova said...

Kliffnotes, as I stated, I try my level best not to judge people on those brief encounters, for I am fully aware of all that you mention.

However, I have been as dirt poor as anyone can be, several times in my life, and have even had other mouths to feed as well, and never, not once, in my life, have I ever even thought of applying for EBT or WIC benefits.

I do recognize why people rant and rave about such welfare, which is just a wee bit out of control at the moment.

It's too easy and to widely available at the moment.

There is no shame in someone having to work ten jobs, if that is what it takes to feed their families, but there is a certain amount of shame in not doing whatever one can do, and instead taking a handout.

November 11, 2013 at 9:40 a.m.
jesse said...

Al, after these TYCOONS reach a certain level money takes on a diff. meaning! It's how they KEEP SCORE so they know who's winning!It's a GAME they can't keep themselves from playing!Trump is a perfect example of this! Remember when he got all bent out of shape when someone desputed whether he was worth 5 billion or 6 billion!IN their minds too much ain't enough!!

November 11, 2013 at 9:41 a.m.
alprova said...

Maxipad wrote: "...condemning corporate America is a dead give away that you are a well read pot smoking hippy authority on everything. My daughter used to date a guy like you until she finally wished up that "the Dude" was going absolutely nowhere with his life. The result.....she married a Republican lawyer and is now driving the kids to Baylor in a Mercedes. :)"

All you have admitted to is that your daughter, if you even have one, is nothing more than a higher class prostitute, who married for money.

You must be so proud.

November 11, 2013 at 9:45 a.m.
alprova said...

jesse, you hit the nail right on the head.

November 11, 2013 at 9:46 a.m.
Maximus said...

Todays Democrat party walking in lockstep as they lie about solving every so called problem in America are like lemmings to the slaughter. Mindless drones looking for their next cause to fight for or their next victim to create and save. Disdainful of self reliance, personal responsibility, and above aa accountability. Our embarrassing Welfare Pimp President Obama selling insurance that no one, especially the young people they are targeting, wants is yet just another example of the fact that if you vote Democrat YOU ARE A COMPLETE IDIOT being fooled by class warfare elitists. Fortunately we have enough individuals in TN to at least keep our taxes low and our business climate strong. If you care about your wallet, your guns, your health, your country, and your kids future vote Red State Republican across the board. At least Republicans will come up with some original ideas to solve problems.

November 11, 2013 at 9:48 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

VladimirALPO says "If someone owns 40 acres of land, and that land is not being used to raise food, that land is being wasted." thanks for sharing, Comrade.

November 11, 2013 at 9:49 a.m.
Maximus said...

No Stage 4 she married for love and a fellow, unlike you and Limric that had a job and a future. As for you Stage 4 Alprova, the future that you well know and that you created by stuffing your face, is dialysis 3 times a week on the guvment dime and usually, within about 6 years being the mortality rate for ESRD patients a coffin. Case and coffin closed!

Now that's funny. You losers have a nice day. I'm going to make some cash! :)$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

November 11, 2013 at 9:55 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^^ way over the top

November 11, 2013 at 9:59 a.m.
soakya said...

"You can't call anyone who believes in sharing the wealth of this nation "greedy." Al

Sure you can because folks like you want others to share their wealth not yours. don't tell me you're not wealthy, compared to most people in the world you and most of us Americans are wealthy. so start giving your wealth away and then you might have some creditability. so start sharing all you liberals because there is plenty of needs to be met. not only can you call them greedy you can call them thiefs, ignorant, arrogant, and elitist.

November 11, 2013 at 10:21 a.m.
soakya said...

"If someone owns 40 acres of land, and that land is not being used to raise food, that land is being wasted." al

if someone owns or leases land and is selling used cars that is destroying the environment by carbon emissions and contributing to the unhealthy life styles of individuals by discouraging more healthy means of transportation such as walking or biking that land should be confiscated by the government and be put to better use. maybe a mixed-used development that brings in considerable more local tax dollars for the benefit of society as a whole. or maybe a new factory that brings in more employees than a used car lot would, sounds like a good ideal to me.

November 11, 2013 at 10:47 a.m.
caddy said...

Plaintruth:

"Well, Limmie. What happened to closing gitmo, transparency, immigration reform, holding Benghazi miscreants accountable, holding thug IRS agents accountable, and so forth?"

Indeed !

Where are ALL the Liberals of the 60s now ? Where are all the war haters ? Where are all those who spouted their love of liberty and freedom in the 60s ?

Seems this nation LOVES egalitarianism more than freedom. We don't want "Dangerous Freedom" anymore. We want someone to feed and clothe us. Government schools have done their work well. We are a nation of indoctrinated sheepal.

The Decline continues. We wouldn't know a Scandal if we seen one. We have the Black Socialist Cultural Marxist President in the white house. He can do NO wrong.

How's he doing ?

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI0ib1..."

November 11, 2013 at 11:08 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Yep. The teat is big and warm. And buys votes.

November 11, 2013 at 11:21 a.m.
limric said...

Delusionus Maximus,

You can slur, demean and insult all you want, with all the rudeness you are notorious for. But your credibility (if there ever was any) was dragged out of the cellar window by the statement below:

”As a black man, and having ancestors that fought for the Stars And Bars, I kind of like the elephant festooned with the historic flag.”

That one statement solidifies you’re credibility at one thing, and one thing only, mendaciousness at a professional level. You’re not black. You’re full of sh!t. And if you do have a daughter - married to a lawyer, I can say with a fair amount of certainty she considers you an embarrassment. Ever wonder why she always has things to do when you ask if you can come over?

Like I’ve said before; you are industrial strength. So much so that if you won a sack race (boy, there’s innuendo everywhere in that) and the prize offered was a choice between $10.00 or hitting a Jew on the head with a 5 lb bag of sugar, you’d choose the latter.

November 11, 2013 at 12:04 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

He's vicious, Limmy. For a fact. And white as Casper.

November 11, 2013 at 12:10 p.m.
limric said...

Caddy,

I have couple of a question for you: What the hell is a,’ Black Socialist Cultural Marxist President?’

And:

If Republican ideas and ideology (yours I'm assuming) is so superior, why do you try so hard to keep people from voting?

November 11, 2013 at 12:17 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Limmie: Why is a voter registration card such a dilemma?

November 11, 2013 at 12:25 p.m.
limric said...

BEEEP!

Incorrect.

This isn't Jeopardy, and I'm not Alex Trebek.

Spin the "Wheel of Destiny" again.

November 11, 2013 at 12:34 p.m.
soakya said...

if liberalism is so superior why do liberals try to run as moderates during elections

November 11, 2013 at 12:36 p.m.
jesse said...

Max is a low life BUT Al stirred the pot when he called his daughter a prostitute!

When ys stir sh@t ya gonna get some stink on ya!

Max prob.flippin hamburgers somewhere right now!

November 11, 2013 at 12:45 p.m.
limric said...

Can you guys not answer questions unless it's in the form of a question?

"I'll take politics for a buck two eighty Alex."

And the answer is: "If Republican ideas and ideology is so superior, why do they try so hard to keep people from voting?"

Ding Soakya.

"Uh, what is...If liberalism is so superior why do liberals try to run as moderates during elections?"

BEEEP! Incorrect.

Is EVERYTHING a diversion?

November 11, 2013 at 12:56 p.m.
soakya said...

ask a legitimate question then you will get an legitimate answer. if the question was phrased, why do republicans believe an ID should be presented when voting I believe you would have gotten a answer.

November 11, 2013 at 1:15 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I'll answer, Alex. Why do Lefties use hollow argument about R's trying to suppress voting?

November 11, 2013 at 1:18 p.m.
limric said...

Dude,

I do not have to re-phrase a legitimate question just to fit your narrative, or because you don't want to, or can't answer it.

But Ok, I'll accommodate you this way:

IF Republican ideas and ideology are indeed superior, they would be doing everything in their power to increase voter participation.

Evidence suggests the opposite to be true.

Why?

It's the same question.

November 11, 2013 at 1:30 p.m.
klifnotes said...

Alp said:

However, I have been as dirt poor as anyone can be, several times in my life, and have even had other mouths to feed as well, and never, not once, in my life, have I ever even thought of applying for EBT or WIC benefits.

But you can't measure everyone's situation by your own life experiences.

Alp said:

I do recognize why people rant and rave about such welfare, which is just a wee bit out of control at the moment.

Those same people rant and rave about social security and other programs. If you naively believe they're going to stop at foodstamps, WIC, welfare and not jump on SS, then you're horribly naïve. The same when, years ago, many were ranting and raving about TennCare. In their minds they saw inner-city poor as the only benefactors. They didn't see rural white Tennesseans as overwhelmingly dependent on TennCare. Even some of those rural Tennesseans didn't see themselves being critically affected by cuts in TennCare. Tragically, people always thinks it's the other guy, and not them, who will be affected.

It's too easy and to widely available at the moment.

Alpy said:

There is no shame in someone having to work ten jobs, if that is what it takes to feed their families, but there is a certain amount of shame in not doing whatever one can do, and instead taking a handout

There is no shame, Alpy, but is it reasonable and logic to expect someone to work 10 jobs just to put food on the table? And what happens when that individual physically breaks down from working 10 jobs just to make ends meet? His/her family will end right back @ square one where they'll become even more dependent on those dreaded and hated social programs. Not to mention, they'll get accused, and in some states maybe arrested, for not showing up their children's parent/teacher meetings.

Those social programs weren't created just for the poor. They were meant to create jobs. Look at all the jobs that would be affected without them. From the food industry to the people who decide if others are eligible or not, to the people who monitor those who decide who's eligible or not.

For me, I'm not going to nor will I ever follow anyone around in a store (I come across others who admit to doing just that) just to see if they're going to use foodstamps or WIC, and watch how they dress or how they arrived and what they leave in.

And do you feel the same way about military persons who receive public assistance in the way of foodstamps, WIC and even welfare? You do know a large portion of America's military qualify for and do receive public assistance of that kind, don't you?

November 11, 2013 at 1:39 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I don't always drink Dos Equis and I don't always believe New Gingrich. But when I do, it's a doozy. "The parallel between Benghazi and the IRS story is amazing. Lying, then lying about lying, then hiding from the fact they are lying. Then seeking to apologize for lies they claim they didn't tell. This pattern is a culture of big government who believe it is more important than the American people. -Newtie

November 11, 2013 at 2:19 p.m.
potcat said...

Most minimum wage job holders never recieve 40 hours a week. Bringing home $500 a week would be a dream come true for a couple both working minimum wage jobs with one child. After deductions "taxes" and a hospital or doctor garnishing your paycheck or if you have insurance through your employer "not likely" because you then would not have a pay day, it would all go to buy insurance, you're not in any concievable way even coming close to bringing home $500. Babysitter $100 a week... Car payment 50... Gas 100... Rent 75... Insurance 30... Electric 30... Water 10... Food 75... $370... Of course you know these bills are much higher and you know their paycheck is much smaller.

The US just gave Pakistan $60 Billion... with a B. How much verification do you need that this money will be spent on goodnesss and light or are you sooo concerned that a American Baby might get a extra bottle of milk or have a hot breakfast............. Get the hell out, I want to puke.

November 11, 2013 at 2:35 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Alprova, I totally agree with klifnotes here. You seem to be sipping from the spiked tea of the teabaggers in allowing yourself to be critical, even slightly, of the safety net programs. Sure there are deadbeats and shiftless do-nothings who game the system, there will always be those. But even allowing for that, at least the money goes right back into the economy, which in itself is a good thing. The tax cuts and loopholes we provide the rich seldom go back into the economy and they certainly are not creating jobs. Instead they just invest their money and then they pay even lower taxes on it than a working person pays on theirs. Our safety net programs still by and large serve a useful purpose and it makes no sense whatsoever to even talk about cutting benefits there in an attempt to nickel-and-dime the poor and disadvantaged.

Your comment that there's no shame in a person having to work 10 jobs to put food on the table really leaves me mystified. Are you serious?? First off, if a person has to work 10 jobs - or even 2 or 3 - just to put food on the table, something is terribly out of whack with the system. And if a person works that many jobs, how is it possible for him/her to ever train for something better and get out of that vicious cycle of poverty if they are too exhausted and have no time to do anything but keep their nose to the grindstone? It would be far better for someone to temporarily take food stamps or welfare and have time to devote to bettering themselves than to work 10 jobs out of a misguided sort of pride and just keep grinding away day after day at a mere subsistence level. Yes, there are deadbeats, but the radical righties are so worried and pi##ed off at the mere thought of somebody getting something for nothing that they are willing to take away or diminish the safety net programs just to punish them, even if those who really need the assistance are harmed as a result.

The reason that welfare and food stamp recipients have increased the last few years is not because we have more deadbeats who want something for nothing, or because our government has gone "far left," it's because so many people have unwillingly entered the unemployment lines and the jobs that were lost are not coming back. Practically the only thing left are minimum-wage service sector jobs. Nobody should have to work 10 jobs (!) - or even 2 or 3 - just to put food on the table. The way to decrease the number of people applying for food stamps and welfare is to raise the minimum wage so that fewer people will need the assistance in the first place. Oh, I know, the wing-nuts will say that raising the minimum wage will only take away jobs and increase unemployment. But that is just the same BS they always spout and they know it's BS. Of all the times the minimum wage has been raised, not once has there been any statistical proof that unemployment has increased as a result of it.

November 11, 2013 at 2:36 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

PlainTruth, that quote is eloquently spoken by a guy that epitomizes big government.

November 11, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.

What should the Republican Party be like, the Democrat Party? The Democrat Party are just a bunch of zombies. There's no opposition. The left completely controls the Party. Why can't there be a fight and a strong debate? The Democrat Party is all about silencing opposing views rather than debating. Like their dear leader, Obama, Democrats would rather take someone out instead of debating. Most current Democrats would feel more comfortable living in a dictatorship.

November 11, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Wow, Bennett is one clueless troll!

November 11, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.
ibshame said...

"PlainTruth said... I don't always drink Dos Equis and I don't always believe New Gingrich. But when I do, it's a doozy. "The parallel between Benghazi and the IRS story is amazing. Lying, then lying about lying, then hiding from the fact they are lying. Then seeking to apologize for lies they claim they didn't tell. This pattern is a culture of big government who believe it is more important than the American people. -Newtie"

When are the teabaggers and right wing nut jobs going to give up about Benghazi? CBS's most revered program "60 Minutes" just made themselves look stupid because they aired a show with a liar who claimed to be there the night of the attack but clearly he was not even near the place. Where was Newt,the rest of the teabaggers and the right wing nut jobs when attacks occured during Bush's Administration? For example:

*"June 14, 2002, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan Suicide bomber kills 12 and injures 51. February 20, 2003, international diplomatic compound in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia Truck bomb kills 17.

February 28, 2003, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan Gunmen on motorcycles killed two consulate guards.

July 30, 2004, U.S. embassy in Taskkent, Uzbekistan Suicide bomber kills two.

December 6, 2004, U.S. consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia Militants stormed and occupied perimeter wall. Five killed, 10 wounded.

March 2, 2006, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan Suicide car bomber killed four, including a U.S. diplomate directly targeted by the assailants.

September 12, 2006, U.S. embassy in Damascus, Syria Gunmen attacked embassy with grenades, automatic weapons, and a car bomb (though second truck bomb failed to detonate). One killed and 13 wounded.

January 12, 2007, U.S. embassy in Athens, Greece A rocket-propelled grenade was fired at the embassy building. No one was injured.

July 9, 2008, U.S. consulate in Istanbul, Turkey Armed men attacked consulate with pistols and shotguns. Three policemen killed.

March 18, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana'a, Yemen Mortar attack misses embassy, hits nearby girls' school instead.

September 17, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana'a, Yemen Militants dressed as policemen attacked the embassy with RPGs, rifles, grenades and car bombs. Six Yemeni soldiers and seven civilians were killed. Sixteen more were injured.*

Newt and the rest of the teabaggers and nut jobs can scream and holler Benghazi all day long but it won't keep Hillary Clinton out of the White House should she decide to run, so they better come up with another game plan. Maybe they can question her birth status, oh I forgot with Canada Dry Cruz that won't be possible this time. LOL

November 11, 2013 at 3:32 p.m.
alprova said...

Kliffnotes wrote: "But you can't measure everyone's situation by your own life experiences."

Sure I can, to a degree anyway. If I can make it 55 years without assistance to purchase my food, so can anyone, if they are determined to do whatever they must to provide for themselves and their family.

"Those same people rant and rave about social security and other programs. If you naively believe they're going to stop at foodstamps, WIC, welfare and not jump on SS, then you're horribly naïve."

We're on the same page when it comes to entitlement programs, but welfare is horribly abused these days, not by all, but by many, just as it was prior to 1996.

"For me, I'm not going to nor will I ever follow anyone around in a store (I come across others who admit to doing just that) just to see if they're going to use foodstamps or WIC, and watch how they dress or how they arrived and what they leave in."

That's not me at all. I just occassionally wind up waiting in line behind such people.

Don't misunderstand me, I want anyone who needs assistance to receive it, but I am not convinced that everyone who is receiving assistance is truly in need.

November 11, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Gaussie: Not a big Newt fan, but the statement was excellent.

November 11, 2013 at 3:43 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

libshame: What a lame attempt to deflect. No reason to give up on the Benghazi screw up. You guys own it and the truth will eventually come out. Your president and former SOS are liars of the worst type. But keep sipping.

November 11, 2013 at 3:46 p.m.
alprova said...

Rickaroo wrote: "Alprova, I totally agree with klifnotes here. You seem to be sipping from the spiked tea of the teabaggers in allowing yourself to be critical, even slightly, of the safety net programs."

No...not at all. I am only stating that if someone is able to work, they should be working whatever it takes to make ends meet. If there is no work out there, then that can be taken into consideration, but I am firmly convinced that there are people receiving welfare benefits who are not doing all they can to support themelves.

"Sure there are deadbeats and shiftless do-nothings who game the system, there will always be those. But even allowing for that, at least the money goes right back into the economy, which in itself is a good thing."

Fair enough. That is a good point.

"Your comment that there's no shame in a person having to work 10 jobs to put food on the table really leaves me mystified. Are you serious?? First off, if a person has to work 10 jobs - or even 2 or 3 - just to put food on the table, something is terribly out of whack with the system."

Of course there is, but what did people do before there was a thing called welfare? People did whatever they had to do in order to survive.

Welfare does lead to a lifestyle of laziness, if it goes unchecked.

"Yes, there are deadbeats, but the radical righties are so worried and pi##ed off at the mere thought of somebody getting something for nothing that they are willing to take away or diminish the safety net programs just to punish them, even if those who really need the assistance are harmed as a result."

I agree 100%, which makes it a hard thing to reform without harming those who are truly in need.

Hey...don't mind me. I think about these kinda things all the time. I don't have any more answers than the experts do. I don't obsess about it. I just question things sometimes.

When unemployment goes down below 5%, if those receiving welfare are still on welfare, then we will all know that somethin' is wrong.

November 11, 2013 at 3:46 p.m.
anniebelle said...

Speaking of welfare - the federal government spent $92 billion in direct and indirect subsidies to businesses and private- sector corporate entities — expenditures commonly referred to as “corporate welfare” — in fiscal year 2006. The definition of business subsidies used in this report is broader than that used by the Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Economic Analysis, which recently put the costs of direct business subsidies at $57 billion in 2005. For the purposes of this study, “corporate welfare” is defined as any federal spending program that provides payments or unique benefits and advantages to specific companies or industries.

Supporters of corporate welfare programs often justify them as remedying some sort of market failure. Often the market failures on which the programs are predicated are either overblown or don’t exist. Yet the federal government continues to subsidize some of the biggest companies in America. Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical, General Electric, and others have received millions in taxpayer-funded benefits through programs like the Advanced Technology Program and the Export-Import Bank. In addition, the federal crop subsidy programs continue to fund the wealthiest farmers. No problem there, huh, repukes? I'm sure their CEO's work 10 or 12 jobs to keep champagne flowing and gas in their yachts.

November 11, 2013 at 4:06 p.m.
ibshame said...

"PlainTruth said... libshame: What a lame attempt to deflect. No reason to give up on the Benghazi screw up. You guys own it and the truth will eventually come out. Your president and former SOS are liars of the worst type. But keep sipping."

Deflect?? There's no deflection here. Benghazi happened. It was a tragedy but like the other tragedies I listed no one went after Bush claiming he somehow tried to cover up what happened. The problem for the teabaggers and right wing nut jobs is this: They would like to kill two birds with one stone, get Barack Obama for some kind of trumped up charge so they can start impeachment proceedings and link Hillary into whatever bullsh/t they can create to keep her from winning the White House in 2016.

They have failed to find anything to impeach President Obama and they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of beating Hillary should they run a dumbazz like Ted Cruz as their candidate in 2016. So, they desperately cling to the notion there was some kind of coverup concerning Benghazi because that's all they got to hang their hats on. They are too stupid and ignorant to see it's not going to work this time around.

Chris Christie may be the best hope for more normalcy in the Republican Party but it's doubtful the teabaggers and nut jobs will allow him to be their leader. The more they lose the farther to the right and off into la-la land they go. It couldn't happen to a better bunch of losers. LOL

November 11, 2013 at 4:12 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"... but what did people do before there was a thing called welfare? People did whatever they had to do in order to survive." - alprova

Of course people did whatever they had to do to survive, so does that mean that those times were better because it forced people to be more self-reliant? Some people got by before Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid too, but just think of the countless people who died early deaths and suffered tremendously from lack of them.

November 11, 2013 at 4:14 p.m.
anniebelle said...

Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell, for instance, has doled out cash and assistance to a host of businesses big and small: Backcountry.com, an online retailer, received $300,000 last year. General Electric got the same amount to recruit and train workers for an IT center in Henrico. Virginiaspent millions to bring a Microsoft data center to Mecklenberg, and doled out millions more to help billionaire filmmaker Steven Spielberg film a Lincoln biopic.

When he zeroed out funds for public broadcasting, McDonnell insisted, “We must get serious about government spending. That means funding our core functions well, and eliminating spending on programs and services that should be left to the private sector.” Recruiting and training workers for General Electric qualifies as a core state function?

Republicans like to scoff at federal support for green energy. But fossil-fuel companies will get $1.4 billion in corporate welfare this fiscal year. Small businesses will get more than $3 billion. You don’t hear so many conservative complaints about that.

November 11, 2013 at 4:24 p.m.
limric said...

Rickaroo,

Very interesting was your 2:36 p.m post/essay. I found the following sentence to be the crux of your pleading: ”The way to decrease the number of people applying for food stamps and welfare is to raise the minimum wage so that fewer people will need the assistance in the first place.” But also find it lacking the most important issue regarding the subject of yours, Alprova and especially Potcats(kudos for the Pakistan $60 Billion -with a B expose’) recent commentary. While raising the minimum wage is a good place to start, if we truly wish to ‘lift all boats’ as it were, we must address and reverse the U.S. Trade Deficit, Disastrous, Job Killing ‘Free Trade’, and if I may steal phrase from Anniebelle ‘corporate welfare’!! These are THE MOST important issues facing 99.9% of Americans. The rest is minutia.

"The impoverished masses either revolt to rectify the imbalance of wealth and power or the oligarchs establish a brutal tyranny to keep the masses forcibly enslaved.”

And thus:

"Democracy will return when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the rulers." ~ both by Aristotle

November 11, 2013 at 4:30 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Civilized society is all about removing or lessening the inherent threats to our existence that just being alive brings. Instead of bowing down to the age-old maxim, Biblical or otherwise, that it is somehow noble and uplifting to work by the sweat of our brow and keep our noses to the grindstone, we should be striving to find ways to work less and play (in a creative fashion) more. Our greatest achievements have come from people who had the LEISURE time to think outside the box and to use the powers of their imagination. Of course there is always a need for hard work, but we need to stop with the nonsense that 50-hour and 60-hour work-weeks are something to be proud of. If a person has to work that hard in 21st century America just to put food on the table and pay the bills, then we need to seriously look at the flaws in our system and transform it. We have the technology and the means to create a much better, more humane society, but we are still stuck with the Puritan concept that toiling by the sweat of our brow is a necessary or even a noble thing to do.

November 11, 2013 at 4:30 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Good point, limric. I couldn't agree with you more.

November 11, 2013 at 4:32 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

limric said...

If Republican ideas and ideology (are) so superior, why do you try so hard to keep people from voting?

You’ve got to be kidding?? ... “Have you stopped beating your wife?” ... A loaded question? ... Really? I would think that someone who envisions himself such a rhetorically gifted and witty commentator would feel that is so below their level ... I guess not.

Republican ideas and ideology are, vastly in the main, superior as relates to reason but not necessarily to emotion. Although I’m sure you can supply minor anecdotal evidence that some marginal member of the Republican party has suggested such but you will not produce verifiable evidence that suppressing the vote is a party effort or plan.

November 11, 2013 at 5:06 p.m.
klifnotes said...

alprova said...

Sure I can, to a degree anyway. If I can make it 55 years without assistance to purchase my food, so can anyone,

Many have said the same thing about people who become too sick to work and must apply for SS before retirement age. They're saying the same about veterans who apply for V.A. benefits. You sound like you've been listening to those libertarians who are nothing more than mostly right winger Republicans dressed up in libertarian drag. They've been jumping the GOP ship all over the place since they screwed that up and trying to clean up their image somewhat or hide.

We're on the same page when it comes to entitlement programs, but welfare is horribly abused these days, just as it was prior to 1996.

What proof do you have that welfare is horribly abused? Some are saying the same thing about SS. People like you will be on their SS hit list when they get through with the welfare recipients.

That's not me at all. I just occassionally wind up waiting in line behind such people.

And from that occasional encounter, you've determined and come to the conclusion what? You still don't know those individuals situations. You don't know if the person is military, spouse of a recent military person or even killed. Military benefits for disabled or even vets who die don't just happen over night. For some families it has taken months, even years before VA benefits are approved. In the meantime they still have to make ends meet. That surviving spouse, remaining working spouse must survive off one income until things are approved. They've gone from a two income household to a one. So who would you and your buddies give the shaft too? How would you go about gets the shaft? Peek through windows? Have neighbors spying on neighbors? That's already been tried. All it accomplished was a lot of hostilities and false accusations

November 11, 2013 at 5:09 p.m.
klifnotes said...

continued for Al:

Don't misunderstand me, I want anyone who needs assistance to receive it, but I am not convinced that everyone who is receiving assistance is truly in need.

But how would do deal with the aftermath of the collateral damage that will ensue? When they start to cut people off, as was done with TennCare years ago, they cut across the board. I can recall one rural white family whose daughter was bedridden and on a ventilator to help her breathe who was cut from TennCare, because people were screaming about their tax-dollars being wasted and abused by moochers* too lazy to work and get their own insurance. I can women with children afraid to apply for needed welfare assistance because they didn't want to put the childrens' father (who was most often just out of work) up for non-support. Which became automatic anytime the custodial parent applied for welfare assistance. Who did it harm? On the surface, the cuts appeared to work, but behind the scenes those cuts were a disaster, and mainly for the people who needed it the most. The children.

Personally, you give the impression that you naively believe that if these programs are cut the money will go into other programs for people like you (SS). That won't happen. Any savings from cuts of these programs always end up in the pockets of the wealthy, who don't really need it. Like Mitt Romney and that 15 million bailout he got and is said to have hidden in some offshore account, funneled through his church and wife.*

btw-When I use to post here, you use to make a lot of sense. Show a lot more compassion. What happened? Who got to you?

November 11, 2013 at 5:10 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

limric said...

IF Republican ideas and ideology are indeed superior, they would be doing everything in their power to increase voter participation.

Why ? ... How do you logically arrive at that claim?

November 11, 2013 at 5:12 p.m.
fairmon said...

anniebelle said...

“corporate welfare” is defined as any federal spending program that provides payments or unique benefits and advantages to specific companies or industries.

The federal government continues to subsidize some of the biggest companies in America. Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical, General Electric, and others have received millions in taxpayer-funded benefits through programs like the Advanced Technology Program and the Export-Import Bank. In addition, the federal crop subsidy programs continue to fund the wealthiest farmers.

No argument from me, these nor any other federal manipulation of the markets should occur. I assume you would add Solyndra and others to the list? What I don't understand is why you bash the republicans for this behavior when democrats participate just as much, especially in farm subsidies. Neither party seems to object to getting oil royalties from every barrel produced then giving a tax break which transfers the royalty cost to the consumer.

November 11, 2013 at 5:58 p.m.
limric said...

Elementary my dear Jt6,

A superior ideology (regardless of plank) requires a superior outreach and support. Not unlike an entrepreneur seeking funding for a better mousetrap. Promoting ideology requires more support (votes) than the competition. Thus there is the need to ‘increase voter participation.’ By using a targeted process of ‘increasing the participation’ of voters who, A) support the idea/ideology of your organization and, b) would not otherwise vote without your outreach, it greatly improves the likelihood of success.

Make sense?

The Democrats look to have figured that out. In other words, they’re slightly better grifters.

Unfortunately, the Republicans have resorted to ‘If we can’t beat them at the game, we’ll keep them from the game.’ I find it rather juvenile.

November 11, 2013 at 6:02 p.m.
alprova said...

Kliffnotes wrote: "Many have said the same thing about people who become too sick to work and must apply for SS before retirement age."

And you include that example as if I have included such people in with the abusers. I haven't and I don't.

"They're saying the same about veterans who apply for V.A. benefits."

But you haven't seem ME state that, have you?

"You sound like you've been listening to those libertarians who are nothing more than mostly right winger Republicans dressed up in libertarian drag. They've been jumping the GOP ship all over the place since they screwed that up and trying to clean up their image somewhat or hide."

I'm currently as liberal as one can be, but I'm not so liberal that I can't recognize a problem when I see it.

For the third time, I don't judge people based on on brief encounter, but that doesn't mean I don't raise my eyebrows now and then, when I see a case of possible abuse.

For instance, your excuse that it is possible that someone is borrowing someone's clothes to go shopping for groceries is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

"What proof do you have that welfare is horribly abused?"

As much proof as you have that it isn't. However, my evidence is a bit stronger than yours. Impoverished people don't drive $40,000 luxury automobiles. Impoverished people cannot afford the payments or the insurance on such a vehicle, right?

There's enough Republican in me to understand that someone who just paid for two buggies full of meat with an EBT card, loading their groceries into an expensive car, does not compute. And I'm sorry, but you're not going to convince me that everyone who does this is borrowing a luxury car to go to the grocery store.

"Some are saying the same thing about SS. People like you will be on their SS hit list when they get through with the welfare recipients."

The Republicans know better than to finagle with entitlements very much, even though I agree with you that some would, if they could.

"And from that occasional encounter, you've determined and come to the conclusion what?"

Here lately, it's been more than an occasional encounter. You're preaching to the choir, for the most part. I don't judge. I question. I don't know for sure, but I suspect. That's all.

The truth is between them and the Good Lord.

In the meantime, I will always patiently wait my turn to pay, whenever a cashier takes 20 minutes to ring up an EBT or a WIC sale for the person who may or may not truly deserve such welfare.

November 11, 2013 at 6:29 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

ibshame said...

When are the teabaggers and right wing nut jobs going to give up about Benghazi?

CBS's most revered program "60 Minutes" just made themselves look stupid because they aired a show with a liar who claimed to be there the night of the attack but clearly he was not even near the place.

Why should Conservatives be other than delighted that the Clinton Broadcast Network has embarrassed and discredited themselves?

November 11, 2013 at 6:33 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Hey Limmie: Why not drop the grandiloquence and just get down to the level of the great unwashed. We will stipulate that you're the master of patter. Your schtick gets tiresome. With all due respect.

November 11, 2013 at 6:33 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

ibshame said...

Where was Newt,the rest of the teabaggers and the right wing nut jobs when attacks occured during Bush's Administration? For example:

"June 14, 2002, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan Suicide bomber kills 12 and injures 51.

Unlike Benghazi, this attack happened “outside the walls of the consulate” and yes, twelve people were killed and 51 injured, all Pakistanis.

February 20, 2003, international diplomatic compound in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia Truck bomb kills 17.

Especially love this example because I can’t find a single credible reference anywhere in Google that this attack ever happened!Even the State Department doesn’t list it.

http://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/33355.htm

February 28, 2003, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan Gunmen on motorcycles killed two consulate guards.

Two policemen were killed in this shooting outside the consulate andaccording to CNN, “none of the staff inside the compound at the time were injured in the attack.”

July 30, 2004, U.S. embassy in Taskkent, Uzbekistan Suicide bomber kills two.

Two Uzbek “policemen were killed outside the embassy” of both the countries of Israel and the United States. US and Israeli officials said none of their staff were among the casualties.

December 6, 2004, U.S. consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia Militants stormed and occupied perimeter wall. Five killed, 10 wounded.

This is the only attack on this list and referenced in the graphic where the walls of the embassy were breached and personnel inside were killed. Four security guards and five staff were killed, “none were Americans.”

March 2, 2006, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan Suicide car bomber killed four, including a U.S. diplomate directly targeted by the assailants.

This is the only attack where an American diplomat, not an Ambassador like Christopher Stevens, was actually killed. Tragically, David Foy was specifically targeted outside the embassy when a massive car bomb went off in the “parking lot behind (and outside) the consulate” as he arrived for work.

September 12, 2006, U.S. embassy in Damascus, Syria Gunmen attacked embassy with grenades, automatic weapons, and a car bomb (though second truck bomb failed to detonate). One killed and 13 wounded.

Here we go again, another attack listed where not only were “no Americans killed, no Americans were even injured”. Yes, sadly one brave Saudi security guard was killed doing his job as militants tried to storm the embassy compound. Once again, the embassy wall were never breached and all American personnel inside remained safe.

(cont)

November 11, 2013 at 6:35 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

(cont)

January 12, 2007, U.S. embassy in Athens, Greece A rocket-propelled grenade was fired at the embassy building. No one was injured.

It took place early in the morning when a grenade was launched into an “empty embassy building.” Again, no one was killed or injured.

July 9, 2008, U.S. consulate in Istanbul, Turkey Armed men attacked consulate with pistols and shotguns. Three policemen killed.

Yet another case where embassy security sadly died, but died in the line of duty. Three Turkish National Police officers were killed defending the embassy. (The embassy was protected just as Bush’s security plan called for) All Americans inside remained safe.

March 18, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana'a, Yemen Mortar attack misses embassy, hits nearby girls' school instead.

The intent to attack doesn’t really qualify unless it is actually carried out ... Right?

September 17, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana'a, Yemen Militants dressed as policemen attacked the embassy with RPGs, rifles, grenades and car bombs. Six Yemeni soldiers and seven civilians were killed. Sixteen more were injured.*

Even though some members of the Yemeni security forces were killed, they did exactly as they were supposed to do, “they defended the embassy and saved the personnel inside!” And liberals are pointing this out as a sign of weakness? Having security forces do their duty and die during a battle is weakness? And guess what,”absolutely zero Americans were killed or injured in that attack”.

Thanks to GOP-TEA-PUB

It looks like the safest place for U.S. Citizens in dangerous parts of the world during the Bush administration was inside a U.S. diplomatic compound. Unlike the Obama administration ... Right?

November 11, 2013 at 6:39 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

I would be very much in favor of our politicians fostering an environment that would persuade manufacturers to relocate back into this nation, by offering favorable tax rates on any and all repatriated funds up to an abolition of all taxes on such funds, protection from unions, if they open up factories that employ no less than 100 people, full time, paying $10.00 an hour or more, with benefits, and remain in business for no less than ten years.

alprova that would be a good and noble thing to do. I never see any post here about peoples obligation to prepare themselves for an opportunity. How many of you have tried to find and hire 100 or more people with basic reading, writing, reasoning and math skills? It is frightening how many don't have those skills and the number that cannot pass a drug screen. Reliability as evidenced by being on time as scheduled is rare. There are employers today seeking the skills needed in technical operations that cannot fill jobs.

The welfare state is not primarily those laid off and through no fault of their own fell on hard times. Regardless of the number of jobs created the number incapable of providing for themselves and, as pointed out, those gaming the system is an unsupportable number.

It is easy to find sympathetic cases as examples that deserve welfare and assistance. But, for each of those there are 100's if not thousands of those that simply have nothing to offer an employer that would entice an employer to hire them when jobs are available. When all that is offered by an employment candidate is nothing then that is what they will earn.

When a kid with tattoos all over, pierces, spiked hair and holding his pants up with one hand and his crack showing that does cause concern about what can be expected if employed in a semi-skilled job.

November 11, 2013 at 6:40 p.m.
alprova said...

kliffnotes wrote: "btw-When I use to post here, you use to make a lot of sense. Show a lot more compassion. What happened? Who got to you?"

Thank you for the compliment, and I am still very compassionate, but that does not mean that I am blind to certain realities that are in evidence.

I've seen both sides of the coin, earning six figures for many years of my life, and I've seen some years where I made less than someone working at McDonald's.

All I am stating is that in those lean years, I never went running to the Gov't with my hand out to feed me. I simply feel that welfare is handed out to many, but nowhere near a majority, of people who could budget a little better to be able to feed themselves.

Now I admit that a roof over my head has never been an issue, because I paid off my home years ago. Had I had house payments or rent to pay, I might see things differently than I do now.

Please understand that I have all the compassion in the world for those who are truly needy and who have nothing, but no one who is able to work should be getting a free ride for all of their living expenses.

I know that true forms of welfare amount to only 8% of the national budget, so any abuse that may exist does not amount to enough to get worked up about.

People claiming to be impoverished need to be truly impoverished, and it needs to be monitored very closely, or some of what some people say, will come true.

It should be very hard for people to be lazy in this nation.

November 11, 2013 at 6:48 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

ibshame said...

Newt and the rest of the teabaggers and nut jobs can scream and holler Benghazi all day long but it won't keep Hillary Clinton out of the White House should she decide to run.

You do know that she has lost a net 18% in her favorability/unfavorability since she left the State Department? Now that she has re-entered the political arena people are remembering what a despicable creature she really was/is.

November 11, 2013 at 6:50 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "alprova that would be a good and noble thing to do. I never see any post here about peoples obligation to prepare themselves for an opportunity. How many of you have tried to find and hire 100 or more people with basic reading, writing, reasoning and math skills?"

Sir, the answer to that question all depends on what you are willing to pay such people. People with basic reading, writing, reasoning and math skills, or better, are not clamoring for jobs that pay minimum wage or a little more.

In our area, Amazon doesn't seem to have any problem attracting a good and reliable workforce. Neither does Volkswagen.

"It is frightening how many don't have those skills and the number that cannot pass a drug screen."

And I am ready to join you in having no sympathy for such people.

"Reliability as evidenced by being on time as scheduled is rare."

Again...what are such employers offering in compensation?

"There are employers today seeking the skills needed in technical operations that cannot fill jobs."

That is only true for jobs that require higher education or years of experience.

"The welfare state is not primarily those laid off and through no fault of their own fell on hard times. Regardless of the number of jobs created the number incapable of providing for themselves and, as pointed out, those gaming the system is an unsupportable number."

Recent studies estimate that about 10% or less are gaming the system. Up to about 21% are drug users. The vast majority are those who are truly needy.

"It is easy to find sympathetic cases as examples that deserve welfare and assistance. But, for each of those there are 100's if not thousands of those that simply have nothing to offer an employer that would entice an employer to hire them when jobs are available. When all that is offered by an employment candidate is nothing then that is what they will earn."

There is little evidence to support your conclusion. The reverse seems to be the truth.

"When a kid with tattoos all over, pierces, spiked hair and holding his pants up with one hand and his crack showing that does cause concern about what can be expected if employed in a semi-skilled job."

Can't argue with that.

November 11, 2013 at 7:05 p.m.
klifnotes said...

Alp said:

In the meantime, I will always patiently wait my turn to pay, whenever a cashier takes 20 minutes to ring up an EBT or a WIC sale for the person who may or may not truly deserve such welfare.

Now, I know you've lost all sense of common sense,, decency and humanity, Alpi. I've been in the check-out line behind people using WIC and EBT cards too. And it takes lesser time to ring them up than it does me writing out a check to pay for my purchases. Shame on you, alpi.

And my mentioning SS/VA as a target was just to show you that the people you're listening to won't stop at welfare, foodtamps and WIC recipients. They're going to gut and cut across the board, and they're going to use people like you to boost their numbers of support to carry it all out. Like I said, Alpi, y'all always think it's the other guy and not yourselves who will be targeted.

I predicted the outcome and chaos from cutting TennCare years ago, and I'm predicting the same here. I was more than right about the outcome of gutting and cutting TennCare. The people most affected didn't see themselves in the cuts either.

November 11, 2013 at 7:08 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

ibshame: I wouldn't bet the gubmint cheese on the Hilldebeast.

November 11, 2013 at 7:09 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al posted earlier today "For the third time, I don't judge people based on on brief encounter, but that doesn't mean I don't raise my eyebrows now and then, when I see a case of possible abuse."

On November 3, 2013 at 1:15pm Al posted "I stood in line at my local Bi-Lo the other night for twenty minutes, behind a young man and a young woman, who had what appeared to be a 6 month old baby. They appeared to be almost athletic. Nice clothes, clean, etc."

"I may be liberal, but I don't understand why a couple of people clearly able to work, are granted hundreds of dollars worth of free food each month, simply for popping out a kid."

Sure sounds like you judged this couple after a brief encounter.

November 11, 2013 at 7:11 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al posted "If someone owns 40 acres of land, and that land is not being used to raise food, that land is being wasted."

If I remember correctly you said at one time you owned 25 acres of land because you got such a great deal on it. Are there two different sets of rules you live by?

I believe you also said that you did eventually sell all but two acres of the land. If that is so, do you really need two acres to live on? That seems excessive because a lot of people live a lots that are the size of a postage stamp.

November 11, 2013 at 7:17 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

So wait a minute JT, losing a "US diplomat" is acceptable, but "not an ambassador like Stevens"?

The "Benghazi tactic" didn't work in the last election (less that a couple of months after it happened), so what makes you guys think that it would hurt more than 4 years after it happened? If it's one thing about the American public, controversy is usually short lived. And the governor-elect of VA seemed to prosper with the help of Hillary. She doesn't seem as toxic as you guys are attempting to portray and I would suspect in ~3 years she'll be even less toxic.

November 11, 2013 at 7:43 p.m.
alprova said...

Kliffnotes wrote: "Now, I know you've lost all sense of common sense,, decency and humanity, Alpi. I've been in the check-out line behind people using WIC and EBT cards too. And it takes lesser time to ring them up than it does me writing out a check to pay for my purchases. Shame on you, alpi."

Every single time I have been stuck behind someone using EBT or WIC, there ensues an argument of what is allowed and disallowed for such purchases. Heaven forbid someone attempts to purchase more than what is on their card, because then madness ensues between the family as to what they keep and what stays in the store.

When using WIC vouchers, there are most often, multiple vouchers used, which have to be matched to the items as they are rung up. And no one presorts their purchases, so it takes extra time to do the sorting, and there's always..."Oh wait...I forgot to get that....I'll be right back!!"

I never hit the store on the first of the month. I live right on the border and half of Chattanooga comes to my neighborhood Bi-Lo for their groceries.

"And my mentioning SS/VA as a target was just to show you that the people you're listening to won't stop at welfare, foodtamps and WIC recipients. They're going to gut and cut across the board, and they're going to use people like you to boost their numbers of support to carry it all out. Like I said, Alpi, y'all always think it's the other guy and not yourselves who will be targeted."

I already agreed with you.

You're making much too much over my little rant on EBT and WIC recipients.

Next subject please....

November 11, 2013 at 7:57 p.m.
alprova said...

"If I remember correctly you said at one time you owned 25 acres of land because you got such a great deal on it. Are there two different sets of rules you live by?"

Nope. It was 28 acres and I farmed it.

"I believe you also said that you did eventually sell all but two acres of the land."

Three. Two of those acres have horses on it.

"If that is so, do you really need two acres to live on? That seems excessive because a lot of people live a lots that are the size of a postage stamp."

I rented the two fenced acres to a neighbor. I take care of the last remaining acre around my house.

The rest was sold two years ago this month.

November 11, 2013 at 8:02 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

by MIKE FLYNN

Obama and other supporters of mandated wage hikes spin a Dickensian landscape of millions of workers struggling to raise families on a minimum wage job. This is so separated from reality that it necessitates a look at who these workers actually are.

Myth 1: Hiking wages for those at the lowest rung of the job market will boost the economy.

In 2012, just 1.6 million employees were paid the minimum wage.

Myth 2: Minimum Wage Workers Are Poor

Just over 11% of workers who would gain from an increase live in poor households. Over 63% of the workers who would gain are second or third earners in families making well over the federal poverty line. 43% of workers who would benefit live in households with income over $50,000 a year. The simple truth is that most minimum wage workers are teens, young adults just starting in the labor force and spouses providing a second income to a household.

Myth 3: Minimum Wage Workers Are Supporting a Family

A recent study by Dr. Bradley Schiller, professor emeritus at American University, found that among families where an adult was earning the minimum wage, 94% had a spouse who was also employed, often far above the minimum wage. In almost half of these families, the spouse was earning over $40,000 a year.

Myth 4: A federally mandated wage hike is the only way minimum wage workers get a raise

Nearly two-thirds of all minimum wage earners receive a raise with the first 1-12 months on the job. This is consistent with what we anecdotally know about minimum wage jobs; they are "first jobs."

Myth 5: A mandated wage hike is the best way to improve income for minimum wage workers who are poor

In the 1970s, President Gerald Ford signed into law the Earned Income Tax Credit. The program is based on the negative income tax concept first developed by Milton Friedman.

The benefit of increasing the EITC, rather than a simple minimum wage hike, is that you can concentrate the benefits on those politicians claim they want to help; low-income, poor workers struggling to raise a family.

If our goal is to help those few workers who are trying to raise a family on the minimum wage, a federally mandated increase may be the worst thing we can do.

November 11, 2013 at 8:14 p.m.
hobo said...

People who do not have a snap card are slow too. They talk to the checkout person and write checks. Poor people just don't get a break.

Another thing I think poor people should be able to buy beer. It doesn't have any fat in it. Everybody knows fat kills you.

Another thing it is none of your business if I pay cash for my beer after I use my card. It is not my fult I can't my use card for that.

November 11, 2013 at 8:18 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

Old maximus proves the point that money corrupts. Guess it feels good to stand there with your boot on the neck of those poor no-accounts. Your pride will do you in.

November 11, 2013 at 8:34 p.m.
alprova said...

Boo boo

November 11, 2013 at 8:44 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

hobo rockin the truth

November 11, 2013 at 9:24 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

Sir, the answer to that question all depends on what you are willing to pay such people. People with basic reading, writing, reasoning and math skills, or better, are not clamoring for jobs that pay minimum wage or a little more.

alprova I am talking about pay and benefits in the upper bracket of the MSA and in a clean, safe work environment. In today's world you can fill the need for semi-skilled employees but you will process 20-30 to find a qualified candidate. Once unemployment gets to less than 10% in the younger population those paying minimum will have to pay more to attract the people they can employee. I am guessing, based on personal experience that over 10% of those in the 16-20 age bracket are either among or close to being in the hard core unemployed category.

VW will not make public the difficulty they had finding and hiring qualified people and their high turnover rate has not been publicized .

November 12, 2013 at 12:09 a.m.
anniebelle said...

poor fairmon says: "What I don't understand is why you bash the republicans for this behavior when democrats participate just as much, especially in farm subsidies. Because, the democratic party is NOT trying to take away the safety net for the underprivileged, it's the repukes calling for less for the poor, our veterans, old people, etc., etc. And the obscenely wealthy use taxpayer dollars like their ATM's, Capice?

November 12, 2013 at 6:58 a.m.
chet123 said...

hello jack!!!!

i see you're still pretending to be a black man name plaintruth

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

November 16, 2013 at 10:57 a.m.
chet123 said...

"GAMEON" SAID CONSERVATIVES ARE NOT RACIST....IF THEY WERE WHY ARE THEY SUPPORTING ALLEN WEST,HERMAN CAIN,MIA LOVE,TIM SCOTT,AND TED CRUZ????? MT ANSWER TO ..HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

YOU CONSERVATIVE JUST DONT GET IT...YOU JUST DONT GET IT.......IF YOU DID YOU WOULD REALIZE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU MENTIONED HAVE VERY LITTLE INFLUENCE IN THEIR FAMILY AND OWN RACE.....THEY ARE CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF CONSERVATIVES,,,,,,,

November 16, 2013 at 11:09 a.m.
chet123 said...

TED CRUZ IS HISPANIC....THE HISPANIC CANT STAND THIS BOZO........AND MIA LOVE HA HA HA HA HA...THE LITTLE AMERICAN HATIAN THAT'S LIVING IN UTAH...CLAIMING TO BE MORMOM..HHHA HA HA HA HA HA HA....SHE AS MIXED-UP AS A BOWL OF NUTS HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.....AND TIM SCOTT(HE ONLY SPEAK FROM CONSERVATIVE TALKING POINT)HE MIGHT AS WELL BE PUPPET WITH A HAND IN HIS BACK...AND HERMAN 999 CAIN....MR. FAMILY VALUE MAN(WHO IS A PIMP ON THE SIDE AND A GROUPER)HA HA HA HA HA HA

GAMEON......GOOD TRY!....BUT I GOT YOU! HAHA HA HA HAHA

November 16, 2013 at 11:36 a.m.
chet123 said...

THIS IS WHAT HAPPEN WHEN I STAY AWAY TOO LONG.......CRAZY TALK FROM CONSERVATIVE HA HA HA HA....

November 16, 2013 at 11:45 a.m.
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