published Wednesday, October 9th, 2013

Exhibit A

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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aae1049 said...

Very proud of the GOP for holding their position. Great cartoon to honor their stay power to the will of their constituents for a change.

October 9, 2013 at 12:22 a.m.
fairmon said...

Repeat since the cartoon is a theme repeat...

Apparently as simple and straightforward, as the question of who shut down the federal government, there are diametrically opposite answers, depending on whether you talk to Democrats or to Republicans.

As for the House of Representatives’ right to grant or withhold money, that is not a matter of opinion, check the Constitution of the United States. All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, which means that congressmen there have a right to decide whether or not they want to spend money on a particular government activity.

Whether Obamacare is good, bad or indifferent is a matter of opinion. But it is a matter of fact that members of the House of Representatives have a right to make spending decisions based on their opinion.

Obamacare is indeed “the law of the land,” as its supporters keep saying, and the Supreme Court has upheld its constitutionality. But the whole point of having a division of powers within the federal government is that each branch can decide independently what it wants to do or not do, regardless of what the other branches do, when exercising the powers specifically granted to that branch by the Constitution.

Perhaps the biggest lie is that the government will not be able to pay what it owes on the national debt, creating a danger of default. Tax money keeps coming into the treasury during the shutdown, and it vastly exceeds the interest that has to be paid on the national debt. Not lifting the debt ceiling only means that government is not allowed to run up new debt. But that does not mean that it is unable to pay the interest on existing debt.

According to government data posted in Thomas Library the house has passed bills to fund every government function except the cost associated with the AHA. Harry Reid refuses to have a senate vote on those funding bills and refuses to allow a vote on anything except a continuing resolution that includes AHA cost.

It is a matter of opinion who is responsible for the furloughs and shut downs when funds for those functions have been approved by the house. The house has a constitutional right to not fund any activity and doing so is not without precedent.

I could care less if the AHA is funded or not funded but I do think people should be pleased our government is working as designed. Harry Reid and others demand a "clean" CR bill although those funding bills passed by the house to keep the government open are not "unclean" or dirty as implied.

I do wonder if the AHA will reduce cost and pay for itself as promised why is additional funding necessary?

October 9, 2013 at 12:48 a.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Bennett had better not take his drawing to class today.

October 9, 2013 at 6:49 a.m.
librul said...

One would presume the gun was found next to a dead pachyderm since the party is bent on self-destruction. Whatever.

October 9, 2013 at 6:49 a.m.
fairmon said...

Why would anyone that is broke with maxed out credit cards where only interest is paid want to continue increasing their debt to continue funding the cost of non-essential activities to avoid any inconvenience or loss of popularity. The government is akin to the rich guy always picking up the tab for friends and acquaintances even if he can no longer afford it but wants to continue being the center of attention. He knows a lot of those praising him would not come around if he stops paying for their fun and partying but his ego just won't let him stop.

October 9, 2013 at 7:22 a.m.
anniebelle said...

This ought to bring a smile to all you GOPers: Head Start programs have been shuttered, small businesses can’t get loans and hundreds of thousands of federal government employees are furloughed. But the exclusive gyms available only to members of Congress have remained open throughout the shutdown.

A House aide confirmed to ThinkProgress that the House member’s gym is open. The House gym features a swimming pool, basketball courts, paddleball courts, a sauna, a steam room and flat screen TVs. While towel service is unavailable, taxpayers remain on the hook for cleaning and maintenance, which has been performed daily throughout the shutdown. There are also costs associated with the power required to heat the pools and keep the lights on.

According to the aide, the decision to keep the gym open – even while other critical government services were shelved — came directly from Speaker Boehner’s office. Meanwhile, the staff gym available to Congressional staff has been closed.

October 9, 2013 at 7:26 a.m.
fairmon said...

anniebelle...Do you think maybe the gym has tanning beds and that Boehner wants to keep them available? I bet the barber shop and other amenities are still open also. What is the justification for congress and staff getting a healthcare insurance subsidy that is not available to those buying their own insurance through an exchange? Their salary is at 2X that of the private sector for like work.

October 9, 2013 at 7:36 a.m.
degage said...

Fairmon, Work? congress, BOTH SIDES are not working they are posturing.

October 9, 2013 at 7:41 a.m.
anniebelle said...

I agree fairmon. There was someone on here the other day talking about that "rich B!tch", Nancy Pelosi, to use their words. Well, check this out. The wealthiest lawmaker of all is Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., whose net worth totaled $355.4 million in 2012. Issa also serves as Washington's top watchdog, chairing the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

October 9, 2013 at 7:50 a.m.
jesse said...

Boehner and Reid are in the process of finding out which one has the biggest "GUN"!!Obama is unarmed and clueless!!

October 9, 2013 at 7:52 a.m.
AgentX said...

First, I think that those in Washington creating this disaster(all sides) should lose pay during a government shutdown with NO option for back pay. This should help motivate them, hopefully to avoid the shutdown all together. Second, the government should have seen this coming so far in advance, they should be embarrassed. The debt keeps climbing, year after year. Each president, whether serving one term or two, knows they have a limited time in office and therefore there is no long term accountability. They like to spend money and let the next president worry about it. Problem is, the next president spends too much too. And lord knows congress doesn't help. The president should spend less time on the road trying to convince the American people of what should be done in Washington, and trying to do something in Washington himself.

I wish I could give myself more money when my bills come due. Oh wait, I have to BUDGET my money. I vote we send them all to a Dave Ramsey class.

October 9, 2013 at 7:54 a.m.
degage said...

Anniebelle, Of the top richest in congress 9 are democrats and 6 are republicans, and Issa is only worth 140 million according to the Hill. Where did you get the 355 million from?

October 9, 2013 at 8:03 a.m.
moon4kat said...

Right-wing extremists first took over the Republican party, and now they've taken the entire nation hostage. Like weaselly criminals, they whine that they have to "get something" out of this hostage situation they've created. What they should get is booted out of office for such tactics. Whether or not we love the ACA, it is a law that was passed by a majority of Congress. Those who are willing to shut down the American government over that are worse than childish, they are committing treason. Clay is correct that GOP fingerprints are the ones on the gun being held to the head of the USA.

October 9, 2013 at 8:13 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

The standoff between reality freedom and the Constitution on the one hand and O'Romneycare on the other continues. Is the Senate gym open? The House has passed funding bills; Democrats in the Senate and White House could open the government if they want. Could private networks do what CDC usually does?

October 9, 2013 at 8:17 a.m.
moon4kat said...

In a hostage situation, unconditional surrender is the best deal the hostage-takers can get. The alternative is suicide, or a SWAT team. Extremists in the GOP are on a suicide mission, shutting down the government because they couldn't get their way. The longer this shut-down drags on, the more American citizens will realize that the GOP talking points are distortions and lies. The SWAT team is coming. Just wait until the next election.

October 9, 2013 at 8:37 a.m.
ibshame said...

If teabaggers want the government to default, then let it happen. In the end President Obama won't get the blame for this, they will because the rest of the Repubs will be running for cover to get away from them. It's going to take a swing of 17 seats in the House of Representatives to return control to the Democrats. Right now Congress has an approval rating of 5% with the majority being polled blaming Republicans. Teabaggers are destroying the Republican Party from within and if that's what they want then I say go for it. Until the other part of the Republican Party stands up to them and says enough is enough, teabaggers will take themselves down and the rest of the Repubs along with them. So be it.

October 9, 2013 at 8:40 a.m.
tifosi said...

Looking more like the GOP is committing "hair kari".

"Thirty-eight percent of Americans said Republicans were to blame for the shutdown, versus 30 percent who blame the Obama administration and 19 percent who blame both, according to the Pew poll"

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/07/20857912-polls-public-places-more-blame-for-shutdown-on-gop?lite

October 9, 2013 at 8:51 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

Notice the shooter is right- handed.

October 9, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.
Walden said...

“Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”

  • Barack Hussein Obama, 2006
October 9, 2013 at 10:41 a.m.
degage said...

Most of the closings around the country is to inconvenience The American people. Liberals are blaming republicans but the decisions are being made by administration appointee's. The reason is to cause ultra pain so they can blame republicans. Those of you that think the government should be allowed to spend any amount Obama wants, don't care that our children for generations to come will be in debt. Both parties are to blame for this problem ,it is about time at least one party seems to want try to correct this.

October 9, 2013 at 11:18 a.m.
tifosi said...

I think it is brilliant that the "Liberals" can do such a thing and get the American people to blame the GOP.

It is funny that right-wingers didn't seem to have this problem while President Bush was pushing the debt ceiling to new limits. The only president that actually leveled off the increasing debt celing was a "Liberal" - President Clinton. Then we entered the worst recession in our lifetime and spending was our only option, short of getting into a World War and the GOP wants to blame everyone but themselves, where much of the reckless responsibility lies.

Typical GOP hypocrites.

http://mercatus.org/publication/30-years-bipartisan-debt-ceiling-raises

October 9, 2013 at 12:01 p.m.
fairmon said...

How dare those in the house of representatives exercise their constitutional right and obligation to only allow spending they approve. How dare them represent the views of those electing them at the inconvenience of others. That takes nerve and the dummies are doing it at the risk of not being a career politician that is elected again and again to spend and spend. But, if they are taking a long term view instead of todays instant gratification mentality it may result in libertarians getting consideration in future elections.

Why is Obama saying the country could default on the debt except to frighten people. He knows that won't happen or he is the most naïve president ever. He is assuring Jimmy Carter doesn't continue getting credit for being the worst leader ever. Does he really under rate the intelligence of every American that much or only the majority whose support he seeks? Come out of the dark Valerie Jarrett, let people know where the words and strategy of inflicting pain when it isn't necessary are coming from. You are a vicious and evil woman.

October 9, 2013 at 12:11 p.m.
degage said...

Tifosi, Yup Clinton with a GOP house and senate.

Leave it to you, a liberal to be gleeful the American people are getting the shaft. And our children are being let down by politicians, Democrats and Republicans, guess we should add 2 independents to that mix.

October 9, 2013 at 12:31 p.m.
limric said...

Inquiringmind noticed the shooter is right- handed. He he good catch.

I noticed is there isn’t a slide lock. And because it’s a GOP model 1911 --- no thumb safety.

Yea yea I know, picky picky picky. ;-)

October 9, 2013 at 12:38 p.m.
caddy said...

Clay doesn't have a REAL gun to Draw by, Limric.

The Government will protect him if anything goes wrong...

October 9, 2013 at 1:41 p.m.
jesse said...

Actually that's a Clark left hand conversion 1911 a-1!!

Or a kimber,hard to tell the drawing is so crude!

October 9, 2013 at 2:01 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

moon4kat said...

Whether or not we love the ACA, it is a law that was passed by a majority of Congress. Those who are willing to shut down the American government over that are worse than childish, they are committing treason.

I know what you mean. Once a law is passed by a majority of Congress it is sacrosanct and is never to be altered or overturned ... forever ... Right?

October 9, 2013 at 2:16 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

anniebelle said...

This ought to bring a smile to all you GOPers: Head Start programs have been shuttered, small businesses can’t get loans and hundreds of thousands of federal government employees are furloughed. But the exclusive gyms available only to members of Congress have remained open throughout the shutdown.

83% of the federal government is not shut down and the number is growing every day. The fact that you Fleabaggers are in such a snit over the 17% shutdown shows your terminal addition to have “mommy government“ do your thinking and personal maintenance for you

A House aide confirmed to ThinkProgress that the House member’s gym is open. The House gym features a swimming pool, basketball courts, paddleball courts, a sauna, a steam room and flat screen TVs.

Odd that you only mentioned the House gym when the Democrat controlled Senate gym is also open. In fact Obama still has a 15 member staff to tend to his personal whims in the residential area of the White House.

While towel service is unavailable, taxpayers remain on the hook for cleaning and maintenance, which has been performed daily throughout the shutdown. There are also costs associated with the power required to heat the pools and keep the lights on.

Congress members say that cleaning and maintenance is not being performed.

According to the aide, the decision to keep the gym open – even while other critical government services were shelved — came directly from Speaker Boehner’s office. Meanwhile, the staff gym available to Congressional staff has been closed.

From your source:

An initial version of this piece incorrectly reported that the decision to keep the gym open was made by Speaker’s Boehner’s office. Actually, the decision was made by the Architect of the Capital.

You really should read the whole article including the updates as not to do so shows your foolishness.

October 9, 2013 at 2:19 p.m.
anniebelle said...

fairmon, the problem with your statement is, this is not money to be spent, this is debt that we have already incurred. Are we going to be a dead beat nation or pay our bills?

October 9, 2013 at 2:54 p.m.
anniebelle said...

degage, actually I was wrong. The number one spot actually goes to: 1.Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) $294.21 Million, while Rep. Issa is only worth $220.40 Million. I see Corker's right up there too. This is according to the Oct. 9, 2013 edition of Roll Call.

October 9, 2013 at 3:04 p.m.
anniebelle said...

degage, you are also following the wrong logic. This is money our country has already spent, not what we need or want to spend. Our country will be devastated if the whacko birds go through with their asinine plan.

October 9, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.
anniebelle said...

Jt, I have no idea where you get your info, but this is the entire article. And don't be giving me anymore advise about how to gather information, I've ready your posts before.
This post first appeared in ThinkProgress 10/8/2013

Head Start programs have been shuttered, small businesses can’t get loans and hundreds of thousands of federal government employees are furloughed. But the exclusive gyms available only to members of Congress have remained open throughout the shutdown.

A House aide confirmed to ThinkProgress that the House member’s gym is open. The House gym features a swimming pool, basketball courts, paddleball courts, a sauna, a steam room and flat screen TVs. While towel service is unavailable, taxpayers remain on the hook for cleaning and maintenance, which has been performed daily throughout the shutdown. There are also costs associated with the power required to heat the pools and keep the lights on.

According to the aide, the decision to keep the gym open – even while other critical government services were shelved — came directly from Speaker Boehner’s office. Meanwhile, the staff gym available to Congressional staff has been closed.

It appears that the members gym in the Senate remains open on similar terms. Yesterday, Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-SC) complained to a reporter from the Omaha World-Herald that the members gym was getting “rank.”

The daily operating cost of the House and Senate gyms remains shrouded in secrecy. The Architect of the Capitol, which oversees both gyms, has previously refused to provide information about the gyms for “security reasons.” A call to the Architect of the Capitol for this story was not immediately returned.

Dozens of House members — including many members of the tea party who pushed the government into shutdown over demands to defund Obamacare — live in their offices to save money and use the House gym to shower.

October 9, 2013 at 3:16 p.m.
anniebelle said...

Here's another source for you, degage, from the publication, The Atlantic, dated Oct. 4, 2013. Their information is even more staggering. Member Estimated Net Worth Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) $500,624,461 Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif) $480,325,019

October 9, 2013 at 3:47 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

anniebelle said...

Jt, I have no idea where you get your info, but this is the entire article.

No it’s not.

And don't be giving me anymore advise about how to gather information, I've ready your posts before.

I’ll post what I please ... thank you.**

This post first appeared in ThinkProgress 10/8/2013

Very odd that you didn’t provide a link so the other posters could easily check your claims for truthiness. Oh Wait !! .... Here it is.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/08/2748461/members-only-congressional-gyms-deemed-essential-remain-open-during-shutdown/

October 9, 2013 at 4:48 p.m.
anniebelle said...

And another, degage, from The Hill,, Aug. 20, 2013
House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) saw his fortune rise to at least $355 million in 2012, enough to take the crown on The Hill's 50 Wealthiest list.

Issa, who made his riches with the Viper car security system, snatched the No. 1 spot away from Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas), who came in second with a net worth of at least $101 million.

The chief inquisitor of President Obama's White House is now Congress's richest man.

House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) saw his fortune rise to at least $355 million in 2012, enough to take the crown on The Hill's 50 Wealthiest list.

Issa, snatched the No. 1 spot away from Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas), who came in second with a net worth of at least $101 million.

Republican Party has the edge on The Hill's list for the third year in a row, with 29 of the 50 lawmakers coming from the conservative side of the aisle.

Thirty-seven of the lawmakers on the list are from the House, with the remaining 13 coming from the Senate.

You want another source, I've got at least 20 more.

The only reason this is even a point is because some brainwashed repuke on this board had to say "that rich b*tch. Nancy Pelosi" was wealthy. As long as they pay their taxes, I don' care if they make 1 Trillion Dollars.

October 9, 2013 at 5:02 p.m.
tifosi said...

Damn anniebelle. You carry a sharp stick.

Keep poking.

Fun to watch the others step-n-fetch.

October 9, 2013 at 5:09 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

anniebelle said...

There was someone on here the other day talking about that "rich B!tch", Nancy Pelosi, to use their words. Well, check this out. The wealthiest lawmaker of all is Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., whose net worth totaled $355.4 million in 2012. Issa also serves as Washington's top watchdog, chairing the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2013/01/new-congress-new-and-more-wealth.html

Looking at all members of Congress, Democrats tend to be slightly wealthier.

In the House Democrats are wealthier than Republicans

In the Senate the Republicans have the edge

So what is your point? If it is the myth that the Republicans have all the money then this is just some more of your ignorant ramblings.

October 9, 2013 at 5:22 p.m.
tifosi said...

According to Maximus, you have to be GOP to truly be a master of greed. All liberals are on food stamps.

October 9, 2013 at 5:30 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

moon4kat said...

The SWAT team is coming.

The swat team better hope that their plan is executed better than the military attack in Somalia that Obama planned and directed. He leaked the operation to the Somali government and they in turn warned the terrorist we were coming. As a result they ran our a##es off and back into the sea... good work Barry!!

October 9, 2013 at 6 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

ibshame said...

If teabaggers want the government to default, then let it happen.

Not going to happen as the country has enough revenue, coming in, to service the debt. The “massive” 17% government shutdown, although a Fleabagger created dog and pony show, will also subtract from the required payout during this period.

In the end President Obama won't get the blame for this.

He’s down to 37% approval and was projected at the mid 30’s but now the odds makers are starting to think mid 20’s.

It's going to take a swing of 17 seats in the House of Representatives to return control to the Democrats.

Also not going to happen as current election maps, drawn by Republicans in the majority of the states, give the Republicans a 7% advantage before any votes are cast. The Fleabaggers don’t have that margin and add on top of that most voters are happy with their current representative even while they revile everybody else’s.

Teabaggers are destroying the Republican Party from within and if that's what they want then I say go for it. Until the other part of the Republican Party stands up to them and says enough is enough, teabaggers will take themselves down and the rest of the Repubs along with them. So be it.

The Tea Party endorsed representatives are almost all in very safe districts so they’re feeling no real fear of losing. On the other hand some of the Rinos in the Republican party may be eliminated from within by being “primaried” by more conservative candidates.

October 9, 2013 at 6:29 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

tifosi said...

The only president that actually leveled off the increasing debt celing was a "Liberal" - President Clinton.

I don’t really know what the “debt celing” is but I do know that the national government debt increased every year that Clinton was in office.

Then we entered the worst recession in our lifetime and spending was our only option

When all you have is a hammer everything looks to you like a nail ... Right?

October 9, 2013 at 6:38 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

limric said...

Inquiringmind noticed the shooter is right- handed. He he good catch.

I noticed is there isn’t a slide lock. And because it’s a GOP model 1911 --- no thumb safety. Yea yea I know, picky picky picky. ;-)

Haven’t you tried to passed yourself as knowledgeable about firearms and what is with the thumb print in that location?

October 9, 2013 at 6:49 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

anniebelle said...

fairmon, the problem with your statement is, this is not money to be spent, this is debt that we have already incurred. Are we going to be a dead beat nation or pay our bills?

As I posted before we have enough income to service our debt so there is no need to borrow more money to satisfy that obligation. If we raise the debt ceiling and borrow more money it will all be spent and our national debt will not go down by one cent. In fact we will need to repeat this fiasco in short order.

October 9, 2013 at 6:57 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

From the Washington Post:

One of the nation’s top credit-rating agencies says that the U.S. Treasury Department is likely to continue paying interest on the government’s debt even if Congress fails to lift the limit on borrowing next week, preserving the nation’s sterling AAA credit rating.

”We believe the government would continue to pay interest and principal on its debt even in the event that the debt limit is not raised, leaving its creditworthiness intact.

The debt limit restricts government expenditures to the amount of its incoming revenues; it does not prohibit the government from servicing its debt.

There is no direct connection between the debt limit (actually the exhaustion of the Treasury’s extraordinary measures to raise funds) and a default.

October 9, 2013 at 7:24 p.m.
fairmon said...

anniebelle said...

fairmon, the problem with your statement is, this is not money to be spent, this is debt that we have already incurred. Are we going to be a dead beat nation or pay our bills?

You are repeating a incorrect talking point. Also if you check you will find the house has passed bills to continue most government functions but Harry Reid will not bring them to a vote. There is no debt or already spent money that will not be met. There will be no default on servicing the debt. a bill ahs been passed by a bipartisan vote of congress that will pay all furloughed workers back pay when they return to work, figure that one out. They are not working but will be paid for time not worked and still get their paid vacation and other paid time off. We have some real sharp business people taking care of our money but not taking care of people that deserve some help.

October 9, 2013 at 8:12 p.m.
volsam said...

tifosi, I know you are big into polls, did you see today's A.P. poll that shows the chosen one's favorable rating at an all time low of a whopping 37 percent.This shut down is hurting both sides.Maybe that's why all of a sudden he's ready to negotiate.Sure sounds like his policy is based on polling.That's an insult to you and me and the rest of his subjects.Say what you want to about the TEA PARTY at least they are not driven by polling.They are driven by passion for their cause like our founders.

October 9, 2013 at 8:27 p.m.
rick1 said...

There are those who want to blame the Republicans in the House for shutting down the government when in fact it was the senate and Obama who are responsible for shutting down the government.

The House authorized funds to operate the government except for ObamaCare, and the Senate refused to except this bill unless it included funding for ObamaCare. The Senate had the right to do this but now they own it and need to take responsibility for not bringing the House bill to the Senate floor for a vote. Of course if the vote had passed Obama said he would have vetoed it.

So instead of the Senate negotiating over the issues they had in the bill with the House and keeping the government open, the Senate and Obama made the decision to shut down the government.

October 9, 2013 at 8:41 p.m.
volsam said...

anniebelle, To your point about wealth and politics,the most wealthy President in our history was the one that progressives like yourself worship at his political alter.Yes the great progressive F.D.R.I hope he paid his taxes unlike the great Charlie Wrangle who carries the liberal progressive torch.Wealth has very little to do with governing.Al the liberal saint Gore has more wealth than Mitt Romney though you would never know because the drive by media doesn't cover story's like that only if they are about the right.Why can't we get past this petty tit for tat,lie's half truth's and fear mongering so we can recapture the greatness we once possessed.What ever happened to self reliance.What ever happened to strong families.Whatever happened to it's not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country.Kind of makes me yearn for the days when dems and repubs did what was best for the country and the people, not what's the best way to get reelected.

October 9, 2013 at 8:56 p.m.
anniebelle said...

Jt, I think everyone on here is sitting in front of a computer, so they can look it up just as I had to do. You do understand Google, don't you?

October 10, 2013 at 5:08 a.m.
anniebelle said...

First off, volsam, I don't "worship" anybody, especially not politicians. As I stated, the only reason I brought this up is because some petty, small-minded, GOPer made that nasty remark about Nancy Pelosi, while never mentioning the wealth of all the other lawmakers. I'm with you, I'm sick of this BS obstructionism while watching our country become the laughing stock of the world.

And as far as future spending, this is what CNBC reports and several other sites (do I need to go get them for you that are impaired). Debt Ceiling: CNBC Explains Published: Tuesday, 8 Oct 2013 | 10:21 AM ET By: Mark Koba | Senior Editor, CNBC

Unless Congress acts to raise the federal government's debt ceiling, the Treasury Department will run out of the ability to borrow money by October 17. Treasury has said that the cash it now has on hand will run out completely on November 1, leaving the government in essence without money to pay its bills.

So what is the debt ceiling? It's a cap set by Congress on how much the government can borrow in order to pay its debts. And here's why it's important:

Warnings about not raising the debt ceiling have been dire. The major credit rating agencies have said they might consider the U.S. in default if it fails to pay its bills, and many economists have warned that there could be a major slowdown to the economy, with job losses alongside a rise in interest rates affecting a range of products from credit cards to home mortgages.

Other fears are that foreign investment in U.S. Treasuries and the dollar would dry up over worries about lost returns.

Federal debt is the amount of money the government currently owes for spending on payments such as Social Security, Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt and tax refunds.

October 10, 2013 at 5:20 a.m.
anniebelle said...

Thanks tifosi. I wake up every morning to see 3 triangular folded American flags on my cedar chest. One for my father, in WWII, my brother in Vietnam, and the latest for beautiful grandson in Afghanistan. That's all the inspiration I need to keep fighting for democracy in this republic. There are so many of our citizens who have no respect for this country and those that have paid the ultimate price for them to mouth off their hateful, lying rhetoric on the teevee and the internet. They can speak their minds, but nothing will stop me from speaking mine.

October 10, 2013 at 5:37 a.m.
degage said...

Anniebelle, You were a CPA, you probably saw many that overspent on frivolous things and had to cut them to make ends meet. Our government is just as guilty. I do not think needed programs should be cut but if you google, Us government frivolous grants you will see billions could be cut and spent on other needed programs to slow borrowing from other countries. Some think those grants are just a drop in the bucket but add them all together and they add up. Grant to study male prostitutes in Vietnam, things like that. The list is long.

Most of us that grew up during or right after the depression learned that you can't borrow yourself out of debt. I for one live within my means. There are things I would love to have but if I can't pay for them I don't need them. No credit cards, they get to many people in trouble.

As for speaking your mind, that is your right and no one should try to stop you. The same goes for the rest of us, we all have a right to our opinion.

October 10, 2013 at 7 a.m.
anniebelle said...

fairmon, you said we have the money to pay our current bills. Not according to Mediaite. They quote Senator John McCain, McCain has been one of the strongest Republican voices in Congress opposing the conservative efforts to repeal, defund, or delay Obamacare. He took to the Senate floor on Tuesday to continue pressing that point, as well as scolding Congress and saying they should all be “ashamed” for allowing the government shutdown to keep going.

McCain was set off by the news that during the shutdown, military benefits are being held up. He said Congress is so unpopular that “we’re down to blood relatives and paid staffers” at this point, asking his colleagues, “Shouldn’t we be embarrassed about this? Shouldn’t we be ashamed?”

October 10, 2013 at 7:12 a.m.
anniebelle said...

degage, I have never said, nor believed, that government in this country is perfect and doesn't need some strong regulations to stop traitors and cheaters, but none-the-less, this is our country and we must each do our part to make sure democracy survives. There are a lot of expenditures I don't support and would stop in a NY minutes if I could. Starting first with all our so-called "defense" spending. It's war-mongering money that is such a wasteful use of our tax dollars. This other stuff is 'mad' money compared to the waste by our "war" department. And by the way, I'm on the way out the door to deliver meals and doggie kisses, but I'll be back later this afternoon, so stay tuned.

October 10, 2013 at 7:17 a.m.
degage said...

For those of you that have not looked at anniebelles profile you should. The picture of her tow beautiful dogs ,Anniebelle and Tinkerbelle is wonderful. Emma and her two friends bring joy to many shutin's.

Hope all goes great today.

October 10, 2013 at 8:05 a.m.
fairmon said...

anniebelle said... fairmon, you said we have the money to pay our current bills. Not according to Mediaite. They quote Senator John McCain, McCain has been one of the strongest Republican voices in Congress opposing the conservative efforts to repeal, defund, or delay Obamacare.

anniebelle....First point; McCain is not the all knowing sage he thinks he is and tries to portray. The current inflow of revenue is sufficient to pay interest on the debt and continue funding all essential government activities. The debt ceiling should be raised but not because the U.S. will default on it's obligation to pay the cost of the debt. The house has passed legislation to fund all government activities except the AHA and Harry Reid will not put them to a vote in the senate.

That enables those supporting the AHA to blame the republicans in the house and enables those opposing it to blame the senate and the president.

The president made a lot of campaign promises including the healthcare act. Several members of the house and senate were later elected with campaign promises to get rid of Obamacare. So, we now have this politically motivated stand off. Both parties feel a strong obligation to keep their promises and the people take the brunt of their face saving BS. It is a shame at the misinformation both are putting out through printed and TV media. I suspect Valerie Jarrett is advising the president on what to fund and not fund to inflict the most pain and inconvenience and cause the public to react and blame the republicans for it.

October 10, 2013 at 8:34 a.m.
facyspacy said...

Annie said, "This ought to bring a smile to all you GOPers: Head Start programs have been shuttered, small businesses can’t get loans and hundreds of thousands of federal government employees are furloughed. But the exclusive gyms available only to members of Congress have remained open throughout the shutdown."

And the president's favorite golf course. But who wants to talk about that? Oh, and death benefits are unpaid to fallen soldiers.

"Unless Congress acts to raise the federal government's debt ceiling, the Treasury Department will run out of the ability to borrow money by October 17. Treasury has said that the cash it now has on hand will run out completely on November 1, leaving the government in essence without money to pay its bills."

Guess what? That's what happens when you spent more than you got! Let's say you make $100 per week. And you spend $100 per week and then you borrow $100 a week. Well eventually you cant borrow anymore.

The government has money to pay the bills. They just cant borrow any more. They are still taking in taxes. They still have money to pay interest on the debt. They just have to figure out what is essential and non essential

October 10, 2013 at 8:37 a.m.
soakya said...

don't forget about the 125 million in unfunded liabilities.

October 10, 2013 at 8:38 a.m.
facyspacy said...

It's funny how most people in this forum wait on CNN to give them their next idea or talking point. And it's funny how some people refer to fox news to formulate their opinion. But the bottom line is this.... No matter you are extreme left, highly conservative, or somewhere in the middle, the math never lies!

People with pre existing conditions were un able to get insurance before 10-1-13. Before 10-1, insurance companies had policy holders, who paid a premium based on actuary tables, and then they add 15% on top (bc they are in business to make money). That's how premiums are calculated. Now, after 10-1, you are forcing these same companies to take in people who have health problems. They are saying that a person who is 500 lbs, diabetic, had 3 heart attacks, and needs blood pressure meds will pay the same premium as a healthy individual. Even though that person's healthcare will cost a lot more than the healthy individual. So, the insurance companies are going to look at the actuary tables again. They are going to see what the cost of healthcare is. Then they are going to add to it a profit.

No matter how you spin it. Premiums are going up. Pull your head out of you politics and look at simple math. It isn't free! Some body has to pay for it. And it's the people paying premiums

October 10, 2013 at 8:53 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

facy, we are already paying for it. Through emergency and indigent care at hospitals. The hospitals are not eating that expense; they incorporate it into the charges for those that are insured.

October 10, 2013 at 8:58 a.m.
facyspacy said...

Ikiethlu, You just explained why health "care" is expensive. I was explaining why health "insurance" will be expensive. The fact is that health care costs are still rising. The plan the preident put into place for health reform was noble. He worked hard on it. But 2+2 does not equal 3. It cant work. He even said on the first day of the government shut down....

"If anybody else has any ideas about affordable healthcare i am open to them....... But im not negotiating." Bho

October 10, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.
soakya said...

sorry, thats 125 trillion in unfunded liabilities

October 10, 2013 at 9:44 a.m.
GameOn said...

Surprise.....University of Colorado students overwhelmingly blame Obama and Democrats for the shutdown.

October 10, 2013 at 9:49 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Your argument is faulty, facy. Premiums will not go up because high risk people are added to the lists. The costs of caring for those people are already included in our premiums because they are already getting the care. These are the people that are not eligible for Medicaid and are too young for medicare. They are being treated as indigent and those costs passed on to our insurance companies in the form of higher fees.

October 10, 2013 at 9:51 a.m.
degage said...

Ike, to a certain extent you are right. Then there is the fact that insurance companies and Medicare contract with doctors and hospitals to except certain payments. Before I was on medicare BCBS was my insurer. I had a bill $67,454 for open heart surgery .The hospital was paid $19,689. Since it was contracted I had to pay 10% of the allowed . Since on medicare advantage program I had a bill of $12,000+ for a procedure that I was at the hospital for 6 hours and the plan paid $1,345. I paid 20% of the allowed. So the hospitals are not being paid what they charge so the charges for emergency and indigent really are not being covered. But you are right Hospitals do jack up the bills to cover others, the just don't get the amount they want. I felt my insurer didn't pay what they should have for the open heart and when I questioned it they promptly let me know it was contracted.

October 10, 2013 at 9:52 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

The bill that you received was not the final amount that was transacted, degage. Hospitals routinely issue a bill that is far more than the final negotiations between them and insurance settles on. Part of the problem is that we as consumers have no idea what the true cost of these services are.

October 10, 2013 at 10:37 a.m.
joneses said...

I am sure you liberals are very pleased that obama and chick hagel decided not to continue payments to the families of Afghanistan war casulaties but obamas golf course and his staff to wait on his every need is still open and in tact. You should be ashamed of these traitors for using the shutdown to penalize our brave soldiers and their families as well as the American people who obama sees as his enemy.

October 10, 2013 at 10:50 a.m.

Obama is an #@$hole, plain and simple. Just a political hack, and a prick. He's constantly flipping the finger to everyone in this once great country. Allowing illegal aliens to have access to the mall, opening it up to them, yet denying access to monuments to veterans and all citizens, is disgusting. What a prick he is. Immigration reform?? No, come in the right way, @#$holes, or stay out. Obama is nothing but punk and bully.

October 10, 2013 at 12:50 p.m.
degage said...

Ike, you are more than likely right.

October 10, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.
gypsylady said...

Facy simply posted language almost verbatim from a Dave Ramsey video. I watched part of it until I realized that he was fudging the numbers. The 500 lb. woman example came directly from that video. How about the child who is born with a defective heart? Why not use that kid for an example? The guy's a good salesman, I'll give him that. But he's selling financial advice that most of us already understand and counting on no one looking too closely at what he's saying.

October 10, 2013 at 1:11 p.m.
Walden said...

Right on zable!

October 10, 2013 at 1:36 p.m.
joneses said...

What I find amazing is obama's regime is the most divisive to ever occupy the White House. There is no leadership in this regime and obama's puppet master is that b!tch valerie jarrett. By the way, does anyone find it interesting that the dummycrats never parade moochelle obama around? Why is this? I remember when clinton was president you could not turn on the TV without seeing hillary.

October 10, 2013 at 2:30 p.m.
fairmon said...

lkeithlu said to facy...

Your argument is faulty, facy. Premiums will not go up because high risk people are added to the lists. The costs of caring for those people are already included in our premiums because they are already getting the care. These are the people that are not eligible for Medicaid and are too young for medicare. They are being treated as indigent and those costs passed on to our insurance companies in the form of higher fees.

Your argument is faulty. Medicare rates are imposed by the government, PPO rates, HMO rates are negotiated therefore they don't pay more. Most indigent care cost is paid by local and state government subsidies. In TN. many people obtain excellent care and services akin to a Cadillac plan through Tenncare. All the AHA is doing is making a convoluted mess a convoluted+ mess. It is naïve to think it will reduce cost to those that pay for their insurance or that it will improve care.

The AHA has been passed so every butt in D.C. needs to be insisting it be in place as scheduled and as written so even the most naïve will know what it is costing them. To heck with all the exemptions, postponements and discriminatory changes. Those are the things congress needs to be adamant about and not allow.

October 10, 2013 at 3:17 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

fairmon, there are plenty of people NOT qualified for medicaid or a state's version of medicaid. They are the ones considered indigent.

October 10, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.
fairmon said...

lkeithlu said...

fairmon, there are plenty of people NOT qualified for medicaid or a state's version of medicaid. They are the ones considered indigent.

Some are in that category and some abuse the system. State and local governments cover a lot of the indigent care cost with funding directly to the hospital and the department of health is available to them also. Our differing views are that the AHA caused premium increases are only due to those without insurance. My personal experience assures me there will be a healthy increase in premiums and hidden taxes. I take care of my 90 year old mothers affairs and her premiums will be increased a lot. It is ludicrous that policies for those 65 and above are required to cover pre-natal care and pregnancy. Check it out, and it does affect premiums. The producers of implants and artificial joints (knee, hip etc.) will be taxed on those items and no doubt that will be in the cost of that service therefore premiums. I admit I quit trying to read the piece of garbage as it grew to thousands of pages but it is a poorly crafted piece of junk legislation. Insurance and healthcare are already so complex and distorted it is impossible to really know the truth and this adds to the confusion. What does capital gains from the selling of a home have to do with healthcare? There is a capital gains tax if the home is above a certain value....

October 10, 2013 at 5:04 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

lkeithlu said...

fairmon, there are plenty of people NOT qualified for medicaid or a state's version of medicaid. They are the ones considered indigent.

If they don’t qualify for Medicaid or Medicare then they are not indigent, plain and simple. If someone receives medical care and they qualify for Medicaid the provider makes sure they are reimbursed through that program.

There are a certain number of people that are not indigent but claim they don’t need or can’t afford insurance. These are the people we have to subsidize because they don’t fulfill their personal responsibility to provide their own coverage. As a Conservative I think the government should not force them to preemptively meet their future responsibilities. On the other hand it should not allow them to easily default on their obligations through bankruptcy. If people knew they would have a long term financial obligation for those medical bills they would definitely get coverage. If not then tough luck.

There is a third group of people who are not indigent but don’t have coverage due to pre-existing conditions and insurance companies will not sell them coverage. These people should be given government assistance through a Medicare type program but only if they had coverage prior to the condition or the condition was in effect prior to adulthood (21 years old).

There was no need to upset the whole apple cart to address this latter group. The ACA will not lower our medical care costs and will in fact increase them so this could have been addressed in a much simpler fashion than the fiasco we are presently caught in.

October 10, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.
joneses said...

Heres one for you. One of the well known liberal talking heads, debbie waserman-schultz or better known as debbie blabber mouth-schultz, said today that the obamacare exchanges website was designed to enroll about 15,000 people per day. So if you do the math and there are 50,000,000 uninsured people in America like the dummycrats claim, it will take a little over 9 years to get all 50,000,000 uninsured people enrolled. Let the fines begin for those unfortunates that will not have insurance by 1/1/14.

October 10, 2013 at 5:37 p.m.
joneses said...

obamacare facts

-- Obamacare will allow insurers to charge 50 percent higher premiums for smokers, but prohibits insurers from increasing premiums for those with HIV/AIDS.

-- Nationally, Obamacare will increase men's individual insurance premiums by an average of 99 percent and women's by 62 percent. In North Carolina, for example, individual insurance premiums will triple for women and quadruple for men.

-- Health plans valued at $27,500 or more for a family of four will be taxed at a rate of 40 percent.

-- No doctors who went to an American medical school will be accepting Obamacare.

-- A 62-year-old man earning $46,000 a year is entitled to a $7,836 government tax credit to buy health insurance. But if he earns an extra $22 in income, he loses the entire $7,836 credit. He will have more take-home pay by earning $46,000 than if he earns $55,000. (If he's lucky, he already works for one of the companies forced by Obamacare to reduce employees' hours!)

-- Merely to be eligible for millions of dollars in grants from the federal government under Obamacare, education and training programs are required to meet racial, ethnic, gender, linguistic and sexual orientation quotas. That's going to make health care MUCH better!

-- Obamacare is turning America into a part-time nation. According to a recent report by economist John Lott, 97 percent of all jobs added to the economy so far this year have been part-time jobs. Ninety-seven percent!

-- Obamacare is such a disaster that the people who wrote it refuse to live under it themselves. That's right, Congress won a waiver from Obamacare.

October 10, 2013 at 6 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

People are finding that the web site they use to sign up for the ACA is almost unusable. Now web site designers are saying the cost to develop it was 5 times what it should have cost. That its design appears to be done by people that have no experience in doing so. These are the people we want to put in charge of our healthcare? Good luck with that deal.

One reporter tried many times to sign up on the ACA and was never successful. He then tried to get a quote from a private company and after entering his information it only took seconds for his quote to be presented.

October 10, 2013 at 6:33 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

O.M.G. ... It looks like Obama blinked. He is now negotiating after saying he would not.

October 10, 2013 at 6:36 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Here is an article written by George Will and you Fleabaggers really should read it entirely for a little bit of self awareness on your parts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-when-liberals-became-scolds/2013/10/09/b8a63ba0-304b-11e3-9ccc-2252bdb14df5_story.html

Three days after the assassination, a Times editorial, “Spiral of Hate,” identified Kennedy’s killer as a “spirit”: The Times deplored “the shame all America must bear for the spirit of madness and hate that struck down” Kennedy. The editorialists were, presumably, immune to this spirit.

The new liberalism-as-paternalism would be about correcting other people’s defects.

Hitherto a doctrine of American celebration and optimism, liberalism would now become a scowling indictment: Kennedy was killed by America’s social climate, whose sickness required “punitive liberalism.”

The bullets of Nov. 22, 1963, altered the nation’s trajectory less by killing a president than by giving birth to a destructive narrative about America. Fittingly, the narrative was most injurious to the narrators. Their recasting of the tragedy in order to validate their curdled conception of the nation marked a ruinous turn for liberalism, beginning its decline from political dominance.

Punitive liberalism preached the necessity of national repentance for a history of crimes and misdeeds that had produced a present so poisonous that it murdered a president. To be a liberal would mean being a scold.

Liberalism would become the doctrine of grievance groups owed redress for cumulative inherited injuries inflicted by the nation’s tawdry history, toxic present and ominous future.

BTW ... “He didn’t even have the satisfaction of being killed for civil rights. It’s — it had to be some silly little Communist.”

— Jacqueline Kennedy,

Nov. 22, 1963

October 10, 2013 at 6:48 p.m.
tifosi said...

Bye Bye DesJarlais! The end is right around the bend and the GOP is going to get their asses handed to them on a platter.

"The Republican Party has been badly damaged in the ongoing government shutdown and debt limit standoff, with a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll finding that a majority of Americans blame the GOP for the shutdown, and with the party’s popularity declining to its lowest level.

By a 22-point margin (53 percent to 31 percent), the public blames the Republican Party more for the shutdown than President Barack Obama – a wider margin of blame for the GOP than the party received during the poll during the last shutdown in 1995-96."

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903624-nbcwsj-poll-shutdown-debate-damages-gop?lite

October 10, 2013 at 7:12 p.m.
tifosi said...

Clay Bennett's cartoon is proving to be so prophetic:

"Just 24 percent of respondents have a favorable opinion about the GOP, and only 21 percent have a favorable view of the Tea Party, which are both at all-time lows in the history of poll."

October 10, 2013 at 7:15 p.m.
tifosi said...

Not much longer and the "liburals" will control Washington D.C.

I guess Joneses will be launching the civil war soon afterwards.

October 10, 2013 at 7:16 p.m.
tifosi said...

OH MY!!! The more I read the darker it looks for all you TeabaGGers:

"And one year until next fall’s midterm elections, American voters prefer a Democratic-controlled Congress to a Republican-controlled one by eight percentage points (47 percent to 39 percent), up from the Democrats’ three-point advantage last month (46 percent to 43 percent)."

October 10, 2013 at 7:18 p.m.
volsam said...

anniebelle, Your telling me you don't think FDR was a great president?All progressives think so,so i just assumed you towed the party line, my bad.As for the debt ceiling I know we have to raise it to fulfill our obligations.What I was talking about is the runaway spending.We have to rein it in or we will go bankrupt.What my point is, is that the last year of the big spending Bush administration the country was about 9.6 trillion in debt, today it's about 17 TRILLION.If you don't think that's a problem then you must live in a fantasy world.We spend about 1 Trillion more Dollars every year than we take in.My point is we have to cut spending or we risk more than default we risk total insolvency of our currency.Then we turn into Germany of the 1930's.And I think we ALL know how that turned out.I'm just afraid if the currency fails it would lead to anarchy.I love this great country and don't want to lose it.Nancy Pelousy said there wasn't anything else to cut from the budget,if that's true we are in BIG trouble.And by the way I know what the debt ceiling is this ain't my first rodeo.

October 10, 2013 at 8:08 p.m.
volsam said...

tifosi,Do you really think with the 24 hour news cycle that the voting public are going to remember or care who was or wasn't for or against anything that happens today.Just as soon as THE ONE and the Republicant's decide the charade has lasted long enough they will kiss and make up and the utopia will return and the debt will go up and everything will be business as usual.They will kick the proverbial can down the road and MY children and their children and their children will be burdened with the sins and excesses of my lousy generation of elected officials drunken sailor spending binge.It might not be so bad but we have NOTHING to show for it.More poverty more people on food stamps the lowest worker participation in my life time and shrinking wages.

October 10, 2013 at 8:29 p.m.
tifosi said...

"OH MY.. the sky is falling!" - Chicken Little

October 10, 2013 at 8:32 p.m.
tifosi said...
October 10, 2013 at 8:38 p.m.
volsam said...

Tifosi, That's probably what Caeser said right before the fall of the Roman Empire.I don't think it's a bit funny that you don't seem to understand how close we are to a total meltdown.If you think the GREAT RECESSION of 2008 was bad you ain't seen nothing yet.It's coming if we don't get our house in order.

October 10, 2013 at 8:55 p.m.
tifosi said...

Far worse is coming if we don't drown the Teabaggers in Boston Harbor.

October 10, 2013 at 9:02 p.m.
volsam said...

Whatever it takes,but it needs to happen SOON.

October 10, 2013 at 9:17 p.m.
tifosi said...

volsam-

Sure, we have a higher than normal debt and we are going to have to work at getting it back down. That is the price we pay for popping the real estate bubble in 2008. It isn't President Obama's fault. It isn't the fault of most of the leaders we have today. Spending all that money was a necessary evil that had to happen, or we would have had a far worse and deeper recession. We will have to spend more too. We really got off easy compared to what happened in 1930. They didn't have a clue how to reduce the impact, nor get out of it. President Obama did his homework and made some tough decisions. Some right, some not so right. But mostly he got it right, in my opinion. Far better than anyone before him. Unfortunately, we have some ridiculous people that want to throw the president under the bus in order to make political gains. America ain't buying it and the GOP will pay the price for such folly.

I am just thankful we did not have to do as my father's generation with the Great Depression. It took a World War with millions of lives lost. That makes our current circumstance look like child's play.

We played with fire and got burnt. Taking drastic measures like those being demanded by the Tea Party, as if no recession ever occurred, would bring far too much misery. Our circumstance will take at least ten more years of careful management to get a reasonable recovery. Assuming we don't go to war again. Which, if we must... then we must. We do have responsibilities that no other nation has.

I do not believe it will be a burden that my grandchildren will have to carry (they aren't born yet). The Great Depression did not take that long to recover from.

October 10, 2013 at 9:38 p.m.
tifosi said...

BTW, my generation had the burden brought to us by our parents. It was called the Cold War. We spent trillions of dollars making atomic bombs and created massive debt (for that time) along the way.

We really are not in as much trouble as some like to portray. This is a good, reliable source that sums it up.

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/history/history.htm

October 10, 2013 at 9:50 p.m.
volsam said...

tifosi, My dad also lived through the GREAT DEPRESSION. So I get it. I blame all of the progressive presidents.Social justice replaced family . We will never know how bad it would have been without TARP and stimulus. But for 7.5 Trillion dollars of debt we didn't get very much.Japan had a lost decade in the.2000's because they spent to much on the same policy's.The bubble you spoke of is still a bubble and there are many more bubbles created by WALL STREET and THE FEDERAL RESERVE.Our economy and and banking system are being propped up by the federal reserve's QE program.If and when the system crashes the DOLLAR will be about as valuable as the PESO.

October 10, 2013 at 10:52 p.m.
soakya said...

yeah we're not in trouble. you liberals need your head examined. only a fool would think 17 trillion in debt and 125 trillion in unfunded liabilities isn't much to worry about.

http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/12frusg/12mda.pdf

October 10, 2013 at 11:06 p.m.
fairmon said...

tifosi...your 9:38 pm post proves you are not a historian and you like hearing the reality we face is not real. Do you fantasize often?

October 10, 2013 at 11:31 p.m.
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