published Friday, September 13th, 2013

Cosby: Four common misconceptions: A Pastor’s perspective

By Brian H. Cosby

As I read the Chattanooga Times Free Press last week, walking somewhere between M.L. King Boulevard and 4th Street, it hit me: Profound cultural misconceptions shape public opinion for the worse.

For the sake of brevity, here are four cultural misconceptions in summary form:

1 Church and State. If you listen long enough to the Freedom From Religion babble — galvanized by their recent bullying of schools and local municipalities — you might actually believe what they are saying. However, “separation of church and state” does not mean that religion should be muted in the public sector (as if our founding fathers were all atheists). Rather, it means that the government has no right to dictate the affairs, theology, and worship of the church, as was the case in England under the monarch.

2 The Myth of Neutrality. Removing God from education, politics, and overall public morality, does not create “neutrality”; it communicates the belief that God is either unimportant or absent. And that takes a lot of faith. This faith-based trend to quarantine Christianity from the public square is, at best, hypocritical. Nobody is neutral (including me), especially atheists, agnostics, and other anti-religious or religious groups. However, it’s these “tolerant” progressives who become the most intolerant of all! I believe in true tolerance, that everybody has the right to present and argue their position or viewpoint without binding the conscience or engendering legal consequences. I don’t believe in the “new tolerance” that calls you a bigot or seeks to silence your perspective if you simply don’t agree. That’s not tolerance; that’s hypocrisy.

3 The Genetics of Gay People. While the apparent discovery and publicity of the so-called “gay gene” in the 90s (and the later, the “God gene,” in 2005) garnered immediate and popular support, it has yet to be proven. Read that last phrase again. A person isn’t born “gay” any more than someone is born an “alcoholic.” Sure, there might be genetic and hormonal proclivities, but homosexual conduct is ultimately a person’s choice. Whether it’s right or wrong is another matter.

4 The “Science” of Evolution. By definition, the scientific method employs the techniques of observation, experiment, and measurement, none of which applies to the theory of evolution. Ask any biology or science teacher to give one observable, verifiable, and tested case of a species evolving into another (e.g., a dog to a non-dog). They can’t. I’m not talking about microevolution or adaptations. Obviously, these happen all the time. But a belief in macroevolution shapes public opinion for the worse. Despite Sam Harris’ best attempts (which simply boil down to an issue of semantics) there is absolutely no moral foundation if we have simply evolved from primordial goo that somehow came alive billions of years ago.

Don’t get me wrong. I sincerely strive to love all kinds of people — atheists, gays, evolutionists, my enemies, everybody — and I support their right to present and argue their position. But if you don’t agree with someone, deal with the issue, instead of dispensing “bigot” citations as if you yourself are not one.

Brian H. Cosby, Ph.D., is an author and pastor of Wayside Presbyterian Church (PCA), located in Signal Mountain.

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ToHoldNothing said...

1) Church and state separation has hardly ever been advocated to the extent of censoring religious speech overall (the very thing secularists can be argued to protect overall), but only that which comes from officials who are paid by the government in the context of doing their job (public schools count). They are free to hold their religious beliefs, but not to advocate them as part of their authority or within the context of their job. Prayer and religion exist in the public square, but this doesn't mean it gets any special treatment

2) I don't entirely see why God has to be brought up in public education, unless we're talking a general religion course in public school, which would be nice. Isn't education about God best left to the church and the home? Politics isn't really a place you need to invoke God and even if a politician holds such beliefs, they should not hold such sway over them as to give religion preferential treatment. Neutrality is equality of opportunity or a general silence on the issue. A moment of silence in place of prayers, for example, would solve the problem and isn't being prejudiced against any religion that prays, for that moment can be used for prayer. And God can't really be removed from the public "morality", esp. when many people are theists by belief in one form or another.

3) No one is questioning whether people choose to have sex (with either or both sexes). It's the attraction that is at issue here as to whether it is taught or inborn. But the question seems fairly easy to solve: does anyone choose to be attracted to whichever sex (or both) they happen to be? You can't force that and if it's at all possible, bisexuality comes into play. Saying it's a proclivity or a tendency might not be completely inaccurate, but at the same time, the nature of the various processes that contribute to the development of sexuality are still unknown, so it wouldn't be surprising to eventually find that to a great extent, sexuality is hard wired, even if it has some potential to be behaviorally altered.

4) I don't see how believing in a model about biological diversity that suggests there is an interrelation of genetics between various species and kingdoms would have a negative effect. The misconception that we evolved from apes is thankfully disappearing, though it seems the idea of a primordial ooze persists, even though that's been discounted for decades in place of more precise ideas of what the primordial ooze was. Science is not absolutely empirical in terms of such things as a way to view biological species and change over a long period of time. There is proof, even if it isn't so absolute as many misunderstand science to be. The precision of science isn't that great, since there is always room for correction or qualification in terms of our knowledge. And morality from nature creates issues of its own, so trying to use evolution for that is a bit questionable

September 13, 2013 at 2:49 a.m.
LibDem said...

Brian H. Cosby, Ph.D.: 1. When you lack a cogent argument, always refer to the opponents position as "babble." (There's a whole Good Book on this.) 2. It's taken three generations to get the Christian Protestantism of my youth out of public schools. I see no good reason to return to excluding minorities. 3. I quite understand your position on gays. To change would require you open your eyes. There's a reason you're encouraged to pray with your eyes shut. 4. Evolution is a theory that gives us an explanation for people, dogs, cows and frogs having four limbs (and cute tails). If you have something better that doesn't involve a magic dog, we'll be happy to take a look.

September 13, 2013 at 8:04 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

To Hold and Mr. Cosby: Before you comment on the validity of science, particularly Evolution, learn something about it.

September 13, 2013 at 8:12 a.m.
una61 said...

Sadly, Crosby cannot overcome his childhood indoctrination with the Genesis' myths. Worse, he and other religionists continue to indoctrinate impressionable children with these myths. For them, ignorance is truly bliss. If they had their way they would corrupt real science education with their usual babble; "God did it.".

September 13, 2013 at 8:42 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

This particular branch of the Presbyterian Church of America is a front for Christian Reconstruction, a dangerous belief in the return of Old Testament laws, punishments, and theological government for America.

Do you like slavery, submission of women, stoning, prosecution of gays? Believe that capital punishment is God's answer for homosexuality, abortion, adultery, blasphemy and even incorrigible children? Then this is the church for you.

Another fundamentalist religion that seeks to overthrow secular government and put its insidious anti-human beliefs into power. Think of it as the Taliban but with nicer cars and clothes.

September 13, 2013 at 9:03 a.m.
librul said...

Apparently, NO greater misconceptions exist ANYWHERE than in the halls of Signal Mountain Christian School where the young people sequestered there are subjected to rank intellectual child abuse under the tutelage of people who endorse the opinions expressed by Mister Cosby.

1) Separation of church and state means that the powers of the government should not be determined or driven by anything but the Constitution - itself a wholly SECULAR document in case you are unaware. Christianists have sought to inject their ideology into our government since the days of its formation but, thanks to the founders, a wall of separation was erected to prevent the sorts of results they had seen in Europe where the church wielded the sword of government power and freethought was only expressed in dungeons or until the guillotine fell. The Enlightenment is not dead, Mister Cosby. Practice your religion as you will but leave me and my government alone.

2) Again, you are free to preach and present your "wisdom" to those who you can attract but if you intend to sway the minds of others who choose to disregard your beliefs imposed through social or political coercion, or inculcated into the minds of children who have not attained the age and perspective to decide for themselves, then you are over the line - and there is a line, one might call it a RED line. It has been said that we should value the opinions of people based upon what they THINK, not based upon what they have been TAUGHT TO BELIEVE. "Christian Schools" are nothing more than escapist enclaves where ideology rules, freethought is denigrated and science, which led us out of the Dark Ages, is corrupted.

3) To call homosexuality a "choice" convicts anything else you might say on the subject to well deserved ridicule.

4) You, sir, are a "theologian" and for you to pontificate on the realm of science, the scientific method, and the process of evolution in the simplistic and utterly ignorant way you did in your little rant is repugnant to reason and renders your opinions on them unworthy outside your own braincase.

As an atheist, I would be quite impressed if you could provide ANY PROOF of the myth of the existence of jesus christ or his resurrection conveyed in the writings of ANY historian during his supposed lifetime. The "miracles" ascribed to him should have resulted in reams of writings seeking to document these events. None exists and that fact strikes fear in the heart of every christianist on the planet because people are starting to recognize that without resurrection, christianism is baseless, and will disappear like a wisp in the wind - or like the belief that lightning bolts are thrown by the arms of Thor.

It was Sol Invictus that gave us Sunday.

September 13, 2013 at 9:07 a.m.
conservative said...

There is nothing like the truth to smoke out Liberals and Atheists who are invariably opposed to the truth and the things of God.

Well done Pastor Brian H. Cosby.

September 13, 2013 at 10:42 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

conservative, you are bringing a banana to a gunfight. Go lie down before you hurt yourself.

September 13, 2013 at 10:50 a.m.
conservative said...

Well Lisa Keith Lucas the truth is you Atheists hate the truth so you just attack the person.

We have heard it all before time and time again.

What do you think you are accomplishing?

September 13, 2013 at 11:02 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

You haven't offered any indication that you know anything about science or evolution. Wanna discuss the details? I am ready.

Don't think for a moment you using my real name is appropriate, nor will it deter me. I am not ashamed of my identity, nor do I have anything to hide.

September 13, 2013 at 11:03 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Your silence is revealing conservative. Thanks for making my point so vividly. When you actually learn enough about science and evolution to carry on a conversation, let me know. Teach Mr. (Dr) Cosby while you are at it.

September 13, 2013 at 11:24 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Despite Sam Harris’ best attempts (which simply boil down to an issue of semantics) there is absolutely no moral foundation if we have simply evolved from primordial goo that somehow came alive billions of years ago." - Brian Cosby

And believing that a sky daddy wizard, from his perch up in the sky, more or less snapped his fingers, said abra-cadabra, and zapped the world and all of its life forms, including us, into existence makes for a moral foundation how exactly? I find it amusing that creationists always try to mock the soundness of evolution, as if believing that life sprang up from primordial goo is preposterous, but believing in the aforementioned fairy tale event is perfectly logical and credible to them.

As for a moral foundation, humankind has laid its own moral foundation, relative to the time and the society each group of people lived in, ever since we became human. There are no "absolutes." All laws and moral codes have sprung from human beings. Every word that has ever been spoken or written about the so-called nature of the gods (the Christian sky daddy included) has come from man's imagination, yearnings, and superstitions. Moral relativism is alive and well and there is nothing wrong with it. Relativism does not cheapen or nullify morality. It is the logical outpouring of human beings striving to live peacefully among ourselves. Take away our moral relativism and the only absolutes you are left with are the unspoken laws of nature and self-preservation. There is no absolute good or bad. Everything is relative.

September 13, 2013 at 11:29 a.m.
librul said...

Here's some source material in the form of a PowerPoint presentation for a little workshop that Mister Cosby might find useful (if he has time away from research into Phlogiston Theory):

http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/book-tools.html

September 13, 2013 at 11:48 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

As for what Mr. Cosby....er, excuse me, I mean Dr. Cosby, "PhD"...says about the genetics of gay people: obviously he has not spent much time talking to many gay people. It does not take any further laboratory or psychological research to know that gay people are simply "wired" that way, just as we straight people are "wired" to be straight. To try to persuade a gay person to go against his/her natural proclivities and sexual inclinations is cruel and inhumane, and to look upon them as committing "sin" because of their gay-ness is barbaric.

Christians used to justify slavery and their demeaning attitudes towards black people based on Biblical references and they are still clinging to their Bible to justify their outdated and illogical notion that gay people are making a misguided or even a willfully decadent "choice" to defy God. Just as everyone today sees the cruelty and absurdity of Christians of yore persecuting and burning those whom they deemed to be witches and subjecting black people to second-class status, the Christian gay bashers today will likewise be seen for what they are - pitifully ignorant and hateful bigots of limited intelligence who are just looking for an excuse to feel more righteous about themselves. Of course, most rational people today already see them for what they are.

September 13, 2013 at 11:56 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

As for the separation of church and state: Throughout most of this nation's past there has been a homogeneity of culture (Whit Anglo-Saxon Protestant) that has prevailed, and it has given us little reason to question the many Christian customs that we indulged in. But we are a much more diverse society now and it is time to rethink what separation of church and state means for this the 21st century in America. It is not that Christians are more "persecuted" today than they were 50 years ago, it's just that more and more people are calling into question those many ways that Christianity has inserted itself into our society and our government without really giving it much thought. Going forward, the lines must be more clearly and distinctly drawn.

September 13, 2013 at 12:16 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Since it's Freaky Fundamentalist Friday, here's one of those loving, compassionate, intelligent, spirit-filled Bible-Thumpers Twerking for Jesus.

It's laugh out loud funny. I do have sympathy for her poor kids living with a fundy Jabba the Hut for a mom.

Watching this video disproves Intelligent Design. Enjoy!

September 13, 2013 at 12:30 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Cosby's number four is so wrong I am not sure just where to start, but here goes:

By definition, the scientific method employs the techniques of observation, experiment, and measurement, none of which applies to the theory of evolution.

The observations, measurements, experiments, hypotheses and predictions using the evolution paradigm are extensive. No theory in science is as well supported by such a volume of work.

*Ask any biology or science teacher to give one observable, verifiable, and tested case of a species evolving into another (e.g., a dog to a non-dog). They can’t.

They can. There are dozens of examples of speciation in the laboratory using small, short lived organisms, and it applies no matter what method you use to distinguish between species. A dog evolving into a non-dog would actually refute evolution, as evolution never claims that an individual evolves. Populations evolve.

I’m not talking about microevolution or adaptations. Obviously, these happen all the time.

And given enough time and isolation two populations will evolve into distinct species.

But a belief in macroevolution shapes public opinion for the worse.

This sentence makes no sense. Macroevolution is a real phenomenon, not a belief system, and public opinion has nothing whatever to do with it.

Despite Sam Harris’ best attempts (which simply boil down to an issue of semantics) there is absolutely no moral foundation...

Morality, as we understand it, is observed in many species and is independent of religion.

...if we have simply evolved from primordial goo that somehow came alive billions of years ago.

We and all live evolved from earlier forms. The evidence is overwhelming and nothing ever found refutes this. How life began is another area of science and not part of evolution.

September 13, 2013 at 1:09 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Now To Hold Nothing:

4) I don't see how believing in a model about biological diversity that suggests there is an interrelation of genetics between various species and kingdoms would have a negative effect.

An odd statement, with misuse of "kingdoms". Again, not a belief system.

The misconception that we evolved from apes is thankfully disappearing,...

We and apes evolved from a common ancestor; that is a robust idea well supported by the evidence and is not disappearing.

...though it seems the idea of a primordial ooze persists, even though that's been discounted for decades in place of more precise ideas of what the primordial ooze was.

Again, not evolution, but there are several strong theories for how life originated more than a billion years ago.

Science is not absolutely empirical in terms of such things as a way to view biological species and change over a long period of time.

Science is in the business of explaining evidence. The best explanation of the evidence is the Theory of Evolution. And that evidence comes from many different disciplines of science.

There is proof, even if it isn't so absolute as many misunderstand science to be.

Science does not deal in "proof".

The precision of science isn't that great, since there is always room for correction or qualification in terms of our knowledge.

That theories change to explain new evidence is not a matter of lack of precision. Precision refers only to the repeatability of measurements.

And morality from nature creates issues of its own, so trying to use evolution for that is a bit questionable

Morality is a broad term; empathy, attachment, and coming to the aid of others are "morality" features present in many organisms, and although we cannot distill all of human behavior to biological function (and we shouldn't) the idea that morality is uniquely human is incorrect.

September 13, 2013 at 1:17 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Interesting link, librul. I have saved it and will give it a closer look later when I have more time. I have read and studied a lot about evolution but I've never seen it presented in that way - "Your Inner Fish." I like that.

Ddarwin, I have been viewing all of those Youtube clips you've been posting and they're a hoot. But I find them more troubling than funny. I'm fully aware of the nutty things that fundies say and do but I try my best to avoid them. To see them up close and personal and to know that our society is so full of these knuckle-dragging nitwits is upsetting. I really feel for the kids of those monsters. It's bad enough to be brought up on the usual Christian lies and horrid fairy tales but when you couple it with all the tyrannical parenting and preaching of these fundie fools the kids are most likely going to have some serious emotional/psychological issues to contend with as they grow up.

September 13, 2013 at 1:19 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Rickaroo, try the actual book Your Inner Fish (Neil Shubin) as well!

September 13, 2013 at 1:25 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Will do. Thanks!

September 13, 2013 at 1:33 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Another related and excellent book is Carl Zimmer's At The Water's Edge.

September 13, 2013 at 1:34 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Rickaroo wrote: "Ddarwin, I have been viewing all of those Youtube clips you've been posting and they're a hoot. But I find them more troubling than funny."

You've got it! It is troubling that these religious fanatics are not only teaching children, but are in all sectors of public positions including school boards, textbook committees, law enforcement, military, the judical branch, and particularly in Congress.

I show the absurdities of religious fundamentalism to not only get a laugh but to trouble the mind about the religious idiocy that is prevelant in Chattanooga, Tennessee, America, and the world.

When superstitions, religious charlatans, ignorant fundies, government, and a corporate-controlled military combine you have darkness, suffocation, and suppression of freedom.

Humor cracks open the window for fresh air and light.

September 13, 2013 at 1:55 p.m.
conservative said...

LISA KEITH LUCUS:

What portion you have learned about science would not even be equivalent to one grain of sand in all the beaches of the world. Mine would not even be 1/2 of a grain.

However, I know the creator of all truth including physical and moral and spiritual.

You in all of your self proclaimed "proud heathen" arrogance can not and you have not and you never will refute one iota of God's truth.

The fool has said in his heart there is no God! Psalm 14:1

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

The heavens are telling of the glory of God ; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. Psalm 19:1

September 13, 2013 at 2:08 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Science, conservative. Not the bible. You want to discuss religion, talk to someone else. I am not in the least bit interested in discussing religion with you or anyone else.

I am flagging your post for inappropriate use of my name. Please don't post my name again.

September 13, 2013 at 2:11 p.m.
librul said...

We don't just share 98% of our DNA.

Chimp funeral

The group were silent and embraced one another. This is not "normal" behavior for an animal. This video is for educational review. Share your thoughts and feelings. Thank you.

Prelude: This is the story of Dorothy, a chimpanzee that was orphaned when her mother was killed for bushmeat (food for poachers). She was sold to an amusement park as a baby. For the next 25 years of her life, Dorothy was tethered to the ground with a chain around her neck. Taught to smoke cigarettes and drink beer. She was constantly teased and was thrown scraps by tourists and passersby. Chained near her was a male chimp named Nama who was placed further away from the reach of the thrown scraps, so far that he barely received any food at all. He became malnourished as Dorothy became overweight. They could see one another, but could not touch and comfort each other. Nama was there 15 years compared to Dorothy's 25 years. Imagine being able to see one of your own kind but never being able to come in contact with them for 15 years! They both quickly gained their health back upon arriving at The Sanaga-Yong Chimpanzee Rescue Center in Cameroon. Nama went on to be very close friends with the alpha male, Jacky(they are pictured hugging each other in the video). Dorothy became the mother of an orphaned male chimp named Bouboule, whom she loved as one of her own. The rest of the story lies in the video.

September 13, 2013 at 2:12 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Conservative has stepped out of his Ted Haggard Memorial Closet for another hit on his Bible Bong.

Kids-let Conservative be a lesson--Don't do Bible crack!

September 13, 2013 at 2:56 p.m.
conservative said...

Ms.Lisa Keith Lucas, if you don't want me to address you then don't address me and insult me.

I have not invited you to discuss religion, you are quite mistaken, nor will I discuss with you the lies of evilution that you believe.

Your science has not and never will refute one iota of God's word.

I will now flag you in return:

September 13, 2013 at 3:04 p.m.
una61 said...

An excellent book on Evolution is Dawkins' book, "The Blind Watchmaker". Another one is the late Ernst Mayr's book, "What Evolution Is". Of course, if one has the time to read it, Darwin's book, "On the Origin of Species" is the ultimate resource (I've read it.). Amazon has it as a free download for Kindle owners. Question for Cosby: When Noah's ark landed on Mt. Ararat in Turkey, how did all the kangaroos end up in Australia?

September 13, 2013 at 3:13 p.m.
librul said...

I thought it appeared as though Conservative had to gobble a bottle of aspirin and take a nap after watching the Quiz Show video. Either that or he had concluded it would be best if he entered Moccsin Bend voluntarily - certainly the better choice. But no! Like a rubber ball, he comes bouncin' back for more!

September 13, 2013 at 3:21 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

If you have not invited me to discuss religion, why are you limiting your statements to God and quotes from the bible? That is not science. If you want to debate the specifics of my posts addressing the #4 part of the original editorial,you will need to stick to science and to the material in that post. No god, no bible.

As far as insulting you, pointing out your ignorance in science is accurate. If you are insulted by that, too bad.

I will ask you again: stop using my name in your posts. I have flagged you again and will issue a complaint to the TFP staff, as it was their error that made that information public.

September 13, 2013 at 3:24 p.m.
conservative said...

You just don't get it do you?

I have not read your a.m. long comments. I won't discuss specualtions and evilution nonsense from Atheists and "proud heathens" such as yourself.

I only read your short comments sometimes and I never read these other Atheists who go on 24/7.

I am here to instruct you and them. You and they read every word of mine.

It is so funny to me to own so many Liberals.

September 13, 2013 at 3:44 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

So you inject yourself into the discussion in spite of having nothing whatever to contribute. Kinda like a spoiled child. And you think that your credibility is bolstered by this behavior, do you?

September 13, 2013 at 3:49 p.m.
librul said...

Yep, con-man. We can't go through a day without reading your idiocy, er, instruction - and what a grand source of raucous amusement it is! That's why we try to communicate with you through video and pictures. It's well established that it is an effective means to communicate concepts to simple minds - wow, maybe there's a puppet show video out there explaining evolution - that would be ideal for you.

una - re: the Kangaroos ... it was just a short hop - boom-tish.

September 13, 2013 at 4:07 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

Well I guess Doc Cosby really put those egghead scientists in their place didn't he? The "primordial goo"...Rubbish! The story of human creation is a simple one. God had a big garden. Big gardens must be tended to on a daily basis. God is a busy man and since Home Depot parking lots had not yet been created, God made a gardener out of dust particles and named him Adam. God looked down at Adam and decided he was lonely; Probably a bit horny as well. So when Adam went to sleep he took a rib from Adam's body and created a female companion for his day laborer. It was all good until Adam and Eve procured some produce from a talking snake...And, the rest is history.

What about proof? Don't need it. It says so right here in this book that I wave around. Touchdown!

September 13, 2013 at 4:08 p.m.
conservative said...

You just can not tell the truth.

My first comment was addressed to Pastor Brian H. Cosby.

You addressed me first with your insulting and condescending remark:

"conservative, you are bringing a banana to a gunfight. Go lie down before you hurt yourself."

You just can't help youself for you are full of hell and hate.

I understand you Liberals and Atheists all to well.

However I am glad you read and wait for every word I write just like these others.

BTW, your science has not and will never refute any truth.

September 13, 2013 at 4:10 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

You are "schooling" us when you know absolutely nothing, right? That's a hoot. Sad thing is you can learn, but you are too arrogant to admit you don't know. Curious: if you don't want to address specifics (as per your admission you don't even read anyone's posts, and yet, if you are schooling us I guess we must read yours to detail) why do you even enter the discussion? When you do, you just add to the long list of events that make you look foolish.

The fact of the matter is: Every sentence in #4 of Mr. Cosby's editorial was incorrect. You cannot deny this, in part because you don't know enough to recognize his mistakes.

September 13, 2013 at 4:15 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

So, Connie never reads posts from atheists, agnostics or any of the other Whitman's Sampler of proud heathens that post in these forums. "Never." Yet he knows of references to him in posts he never reads. Connie is either playing fast-and-loose with the truth or there is some kind of divine intervention at work here.

Connie, forgotten prophet or third-rate bulls#*t artist? You decide.

September 13, 2013 at 4:19 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Gratefulawg wrote: "Connie, forgotten prophet or third-rate bulls#*t artist? You decide."

Maybe Conservative is a Biblical Foreskin Counter and Collector as found in the Bible.

Another reason to keep Conservative and his kind away from children, pets, and classrooms. But he is an interesting example of mental illness in religious fundamentalists.

So hang on to your foreskin if you see someone who looks like Charles Manson. That will be Conservative on the prowl.

September 13, 2013 at 4:46 p.m.
conservative said...

Caught you looking.

Keep looking and keep waiting.

September 13, 2013 at 6:04 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

conservative said...

"Caught you looking.

Keep looking and keep waiting."

I always look. I find your bible rants funny, full of fundy ignorance, and pass them on to other proud heathens, agnostics, freethinkers, and atheists.

One of my friends, after reading one of your inspirational messages filled with love and peace, thought he was receiving a message from Gawd - turned out to be gas.

I keep waiting too! Waiting for your next hidden homosexual erotic fantasies to appear. "Tales from the Closet of Conservative."

That has a nice ring to it. Perhaps you're ready for a TV show? You're not funny enough for a Sunday morning faith-healing comedy special yet, but might could fit you in between Ernest Angley and Kenneth Copeland. Call it "Conservative's Hour of Drool - Rants and Raves from Gawd's Favorite Eunuch."

Sell prayer cloths dipped in your own spittle, or offer a "Foreskin of Faith" signed by you and King David.

I'll keep waiting and looking. You rarely disappoint.

September 13, 2013 at 6:59 p.m.
conservative said...

Don't give up, keep looking and waiting.

September 13, 2013 at 8:01 p.m.
kmgeiss said...

There will always be those among us who will never believe in Christ or his promises. These are arguments that won’t be resolved until Christ returns. And HE will. When that happens, all those who do believe in Him will be separated from those who do not. There will not be any more conversation about these issues. I am so proud of Brian for his boldness and courage for sharing the gospel and the wisdom God has given him! He is passionate about his calling from God to speak the truth and share the gospel promises. His mission is to be a vessel for God to save the lost. 1 Cor. 1:27, Ps. 14:1 Matt. 25:41, Rev. 20:10

September 13, 2013 at 8:18 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Until that time, kmgeiss, science will continue. And Cosby has no clue about science, particularly evolution. He would have been better off keeping silent and sticking to religion rather than revealing his ignorance.

September 13, 2013 at 8:30 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

kmgeiss said...

"There will always be those among us who will never believe in Christ or his promises."

Everyone who thinks and understands history and science.

"These are arguments that won’t be resolved until Christ returns. And HE will."

Not holding my breath. If every savior throughout history returns at the same time, they'll be a traffic jam.

"When that happens, all those who do believe in Him will be separated from those who do not."

That's good. I can't imagine a worse hell than being cooped up with Xian fundies listening to their sad sinning songs and genuflecting to an old goat god for eternity.

"I am so proud of Brian for his boldness and courage for sharing the gospel and the wisdom God has given him!"

Might talk to God and have him give Brain a science lesson or two.

"He is passionate about his calling from God to speak the truth and share the gospel promises."

Lots of people were passionate. Stalin, Hitler, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Jimmy Swaggert - some even claimed to be in touch with God and have his support.

Nice try, kmgeiss. But stick with two-year old children to brainwash. They scare easier with all your religious zombie tales.

Here's one of your true believers. Listen as he tells of raising the dead. Be sure and let everyone know when this happens at your church. Take lots of photos and video would be nice.

Why isn't this guy going to hospitals?

September 13, 2013 at 9:01 p.m.
mv said...

Ultimately God will prove Himself. He needs no help in defending His existence. I choose to believe God.

September 14, 2013 at 9:51 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Your choice, mv. No one is saying otherwise.

September 15, 2013 at 7:34 a.m.
TAGrules said...

Often, the important distinction between atheist and agnostic is ignored, to the detriment of the well-meaning and logic-loving "atheist." In order to conclusively determine that there is no God, then by the laws of logic, one would need to possess all knowledge of all locations and all events and all thoughts, of all material and immaterial realities, throughout all the course of the existence of the universe. To prove that an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being does not exist, one would need to be able to know all things, be in all places, and have limitless power. For, what if this limitless being is simply hiding from you? Would you, a limited being, have the capacity to detect the presence of a limitless being who had determined to remain outside of your detection capacity? Thus, through this simple exercise, anyone submitted to the laws of logic will be forced to concede that there can be no true "atheist" if atheist is defined as one who has certainty that God does not exist. Most of my atheist friends no longer call themselves atheists- they prefer the logical descriptor "agnostic" whereby they admit that they don't know if there is or there is not a God. Thus, agnostic is a much more logical and humble position than atheist. O, and by the way, it is often the first step that occurs when God has you in His nets.

October 1, 2013 at 3:26 p.m.
my3redheads said...

One simply needs to look through the venom that is posted by those who disagree with Mr. Cosby to see that he is right. There is no tolerance from the liberal minded. Pure hypocrisy.

October 2, 2013 at 9:05 a.m.
caddy said...
  1. Some Notes from a Previous thread:

As for being tolerant of the homosexual and the homosexual agenda, I would reply: Let's be honest with each other. We both know gays are the ones who reject what is different from themselves. They reject the challenge of the other sex, God's natural order & choose to disorder themselves. Absolutely, they may be born with certain feminine characteristics and it may very well be they fight an uphill battle due to it. I agree with them being born with "tendencies too". Here's the reasoning, however: Homosexuals ask you to accept them for who they are. They say they were born that way. Ok, and what of the person who is born with the tendency to lie and steal--or worse ? Should we "accept them for who they are ? As I state below: the most loving thing we can do is tell them the truth. God calls it a Sin. They should turn from it the same as I should turn from heterosexual lust--which only serves to strengthen my marriage and honors my wife and God above. Thing is: homosexuals are not interested in honoring any one save their urges. Their whole life revolves around a disordered sexual urge. We were meant to be much more than sexual beings--both on this earth and beyond it.

When i hear: I have a committed gay relationship.

The reality: The committed gay relationship is a myth. Research shows that homosexuals with partners don't stop cruising, they just cruise less.

How often do we hear: You're demeaning my dignity.

I respect your dignity as a human being, but when you practice acts you'd be ashamed for heterosexuals to know about, you demean your own dignity. Again: that which God had ordered--homosexuals disorder, then ask that you accept them and be tolerant of that disorder.

The fallacy: There's nothing wrong with gay love.

The reality: Tell me what's loving about sex acts that cause bleeding, choking, disease, and pain. You might start by explaining the meaning of the medical term Gay Bowel Syndrome, or how people get herpes lesions on their tonsils. Working in the medical field, I can give first hand accounts: Disordered and unnatural sex--especially over long periods of time reeks havoc on the body.

Often you will hear: By what right do you tell me whom to love?

I would reply: I'm not telling you whom to love; I'm telling you that there is nothing loving about mutual self-destruction.

November 18, 2013 at 10:37 a.m.
caddy said...
  1. How often have we heard the argument: You're demeaning my love for my partner.

I respect friendship wherever I find it, but sex doesn't make every friendship better. It distorts the friendship of two men, just as it distorts the friendship of a father with his daughter.

Gay is just as natural for some people as straight is for other people they say.

The reality: Homosexual union is a kind of narcissism. You are trying to unite with yourself in a mirror.

They will say: You hate people like me.

I would reply: You seem to think that love for you requires not telling you the truth. I think love for you requires telling you the truth.

Militant Gays are quick to say: How dare you oppose hate crimes legislation?

Reality: Murder and beating are already illegal. It's hard to see how murdering for hate is worse than murdering for fun or for greed.

Homosexuals say: I believe in equal treatment for every sexual orientation.

Really ? All 23 + ? I thought you might, but sexual lust for kids, sexual lust for the dead, and sexual lust for animals are sexual orientations too. The North American Man-Boy Love Association has been marching in gay pride parades for years. ( You no doubt know about this too, but probably deny anything wrong with it ). You say there is no progression to this sort of thing. Obviously you are a fool, deaf, dumb & blind if you think so. We would not be having this conversation 40-50 years ago. While there is nothing new under the sun & this sin has been around from the beginning, no one in those societies sought normalization and validation. Why ? While they loved their sin, they knew it was debauchery and society should not & would not normalize it.

How often have we heard the past few years: I can't see why marriage should be restricted to a man and a woman, not two men or two women, other variations?

I would ask: Then where do you stop? How about a man and two women? Or a woman and two men? Or a man and a boy? Godless Fools do not see logical progression.

How often have we heard in the news: It's wrong to discriminate according to sexual orientation in employment.

Logic replies: It all depends on the job. If employment discrimination means not letting sodomy advocates near kids, you bet I'll discriminate. I think people should be left to make these decisions for themselves, don't you? You: Probably Not

November 18, 2013 at 10:37 a.m.
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