published Wednesday, September 25th, 2013

Union Busters

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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cheezy123 said...

UAW is a joke. they are parasites that are feeding off blue-collar workers in the United States. mainly to support the extreme left wing fanatics in the Democratic Party. never the less they are a dying breed and will no longer have very much power for much longer. the only question is if they do infest VW which will go bankrupt first?

September 25, 2013 at 12:52 a.m.
nucanuck said...

The world has a surplus of workers and spare capacity to produce goods. As long as that is the case, unions will struggle for relevance. The working man is losing ground rapidly because he/she is so easily replaced or the business can just pick up and move. With that backdrop, unions will not be able to offer much progress for workers.

Funny thing, but now the good middle class jobs are mostly government jobs and our governments are broke. I wonder how that will work out.

September 25, 2013 at 1:03 a.m.
jesse said...

Wanta know what a union will do for Ya ? Read the history of Bethlehem Steel and the Sparrows Point mill!

September 25, 2013 at 3:44 a.m.
joneses said...

We all know the UAW thugs only want to take the money from the VW employees and give it to the old UAW retired thugs retirement plan and to the democratic party to pursue gun control and the rest of obamas socialist agenda while the VW employees get nothing in return. Unions are a thing of the past and do nothing but destroy companies and jobs while making the union top management wealthy.

September 25, 2013 at 6:04 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

Of course, you guys know that when alkarma wakes up and gets online, he's going to throw this one at you:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

September 25, 2013 at 7:01 a.m.
EaTn said...

After the great depression most company jobs paid low poverty wages with owners rolling in wealth, until organized labor helped raise workers to middle-class status. Fast forward a few decades and it's deja vu all over again.

September 25, 2013 at 7:21 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

EaTn: So the VW workers are paid poverty wages?

September 25, 2013 at 7:42 a.m.
Maximus said...

EaTn obviously one of those Yankee carpet baggers up there in Knoxville. Unions are obsolete and are nothing more than organized crime syndicates holding up American workers for protection money. HR Departments, legal departments, excellent benefits, career paths, educational reimbursement programs, technical training, just a few of the many reasons why unions need to be eliminated.

Obama is the #1 union thug and he has been a disaster for the American worker. Obamacare is causing layoffs and job reductions all over the country. No, check the numbers, the poor and low wage earners have suffered more under Obama while his rich cronies have gotten richer. Social justice, HA HA.......Barry The Welfare Pimp could care less about social justice.

September 25, 2013 at 9:27 a.m.
joneses said...

Why is it that liberals are so blind and stupid? Obama will not agree to meet with the Speaker of the House but he will agree to meet with the leader of iran. Obama wants to take away the guns from law abiding citizens but has no problem arming the Al Qaeda terrorist in Syria. The unions have destroyed Detroit and left a path of unemployment in their wake and now the liberals want them at Volkswagen. Are you liberals really that stupid? Apparently you are.

September 25, 2013 at 10:53 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

joneses: And they're all intebygawdllectuals.

September 25, 2013 at 11:10 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Whatever we may think about unions, the fact remains that middle class America is being decimated and with that decimation, goes America. Unions may not be the answer , but somebody somewhere better think of something fast or even the well-to-do will become the well-to-did.

September 25, 2013 at 11:43 a.m.
jesse said...

Before unions the corps. had the power and were corrupted and the unions did a lot of good for the working man BUT then the power corrupted the unions ! No middle ground! anymore EVERYBODY'S a crook and in it for themselves! The folks working at VW have a decent job that pays so-so but if they get the union in 10=15 years VW will be gone or busted!

September 25, 2013 at 11:58 a.m.
ibshame said...

In the end it is all up to the workers to decide if the UAW will represent them. If it can be proven those cards the workers signed was under duress or they were not fully informed as to what they were signing,then the cards should be thrown out. The best thing for all involved would be to have a secret ballot, let the chips fall where they may.

Evidently things aren't as rosy as some would believe. If so there would never have been a need for the workers to start looking for some kind of bargaining chip to begin with at VW. In the end, the workers should be the ones to decide who or what they want representing them. All the rest not directly involved at VW should stay out of it.

September 25, 2013 at 12:11 p.m.
soakya said...

nucanuck,

The answer is capitalism, not capitalism as the republicans and the democrats view capitalism where profits are privatized and losses are socialized. Capitalism where the individual and the corporation risk their own capital and they get to keep the profits to use as they see fit and absorb the losses out of their own resources. If VW wants to build cars in Chattanooga they use ALL of their capital none of the taxpayers money. I have already shown these mega deals don't work, TN and Hamilton County are worse off today than they were 6 years ago before most of these mega deals were put in place. The first step is to break the partnership between the Chamber and government. Then elect representatives who understand how capitalism should be working.

jesse, VW will be gone in 10-15 years with or without a union. And Wacker will probably never open its doors.

September 25, 2013 at 12:11 p.m.
EaTn said...

PlainTruth said... "EaTn: So the VW workers are paid poverty wages?" Of course not, but good paying jobs have the unions previous hard fights to thank; and the poverty wage jobs are ripe for help from collective bargaining. Union busting and increase in poverty jobs are not coincidental.

Maximus said... "EaTn obviously one of those Yankee carpet baggers up there in Knoxville." Nope, born and raised on a farm on Cumberland Plateau, and don't care for carpet baggers either. Just think it's obscene for any job in this country to pay poverty wages.

September 25, 2013 at 12:21 p.m.
nucanuck said...

soakya,

I'm a bit agnostic about the hustle cities are doing to attract new jobs. At least in the short run Chattanooga is better off with the new businesses that they "bought" in competition with other cities. The question becomes, will those gains create a momentum that propels Chattanooga forward, gains that would justify (sort of) the initial investment.

Certainly the Chattanooga of 1965 wasn't going anywhere ever without some investment that could not be justified at that time. Is this different now? I know, I know...the public sector shouldn't be risk takers, but then again, the private sector will always go where they find advantage. Should Chattanooga have died a noble death or should they have been bold...and in this case gotten lucky...I plain don't know. Nor do we know if it will end well or badly. The debt may be marginalized by the rapid monetization at the national level, making Chattanooga's debts quite manageable. We just can't know.

September 25, 2013 at 12:44 p.m.
tifosi said...

soakya said: "If VW wants to build cars in Chattanooga they use ALL of their capital none of the taxpayers money. I have already shown these mega deals don't work, TN and Hamilton County are worse off today than they were 6 years ago before most of these mega deals were put in place."

I guess letting the Volunteer site sit vacant for another 20 years would have been more productive for Hamilton County. Land that Hamilton County got for nothing from the federal government.

If you know much about capitalism like you claim, then you know RISK = REWARD. Why should Hamilton County reap all the reward of Volkswagen coming here, but not risk anything? It's called business. If you don't like it, then stop voting for representatives that support it.

Along the same vein of RISK = REWARD. Why should the UAW reap the reward of VW employee paychecks, when they have nothing at risk? The same ol' shenanigans of the UAW is catching up with them again. They just lost the vote at VW by playing the ol' nut and shell game. Broke the trust of Tennesseeans.

September 25, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.
soakya said...

Nucanuck, look at the difference between Cleveland and Danville, VA. I posted this a week or so ago. Seems to me Danville is headed in the right direction.

tifosi, looks like doing nothing or less was better for Danville than it was for Cleveland. If it was so viable it wouldn't sit empty for 20 years, VW or another manufacturer would have purchased the land. If it was a viable project VW wouldn't need a incentive to invest in Chattanooga. Regardless of what liberals think corporations don't like to sit on huge amounts of cash when they could be making money off the cash reserves.

A few months ago I asked what was wrong with people moving. Why are we, TN, offering these mega deals to these large corporations? This week I decided to look at Danville, VA financial statements from 2003-2012 because like Cleveland they were in the news recently concerning a flyer that was handed out.

Danville has a population of 43,332 as of fiscal year 2012. Since 2003 Danville's population has shrunk by 5079. Per capita income has grown by $6,214 to $30,587. The tax rate dropped 7 cents per 100 assessed value at the same time debt decreased by over 17 million. The debt went from nearly $105 million to just under $88 million. And apparently they won't have to build any new schools because they lost nearly 1600 students. Government also shrunk during this time by 26 full time equivalent employees.

Cleveland has a population of 41,723 as of fiscal year 2012. Cleveland's population has grown by 4,319. Per capita income has grown by $6,850 to $31,687 for FY 2011(latest year available). The tax rate decreased by 15.96 cents, until this year when it increased by 18.51 cents and this doesn't include the county rate that went up this year also. Student population during this time has increased by 714.This population boom has contributed over 39 million to the debt. The debt climbed to almost 129 million from around 90 million. Cleveland also added 71 full time equivalent employees during this 10 year period.

September 25, 2013 at 12:54 p.m.
nucanuck said...

soakya,

I didn't disagree with you in my last post, I simply pointed out that there was a valid case to be made for the investment that has been made.

Personally I think Danville is taking a course more in line with where the US and the world are headed...zero growth. I don't see that as a bad thing, just an inevitability given the realities of population and resources. We now depend on debt for almost everything that we do and debt can't be repaid in a zero growth economy. For that reason, no politician or economist will EVER come out for zero or negative growth. Thanks for the Danville example, I hope they are our future.

September 25, 2013 at 1:19 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

What is average pay for a line worker at VW?

September 25, 2013 at 1:25 p.m.
soakya said...

Nucanuck,

Sorry I was just pointing out the difference between 2 cities around the same size but who have experienced different results based on the actions they have taken. If you will notice Danville did pay down debt over the 10 year period over 17 million but Cleveland in the same time added over 39 million and that doesn't include the recent 5 million that was borrowed to pay for an industrial park that will recruit more business's that will not be paying property taxes. The services that these business's consume will have to be paid by the rest of the taxpayers.

What most folks in Cleveland or I should say Bradley County don't realize is Cleveland has plans to expand it urban growth boundary tremendously over the next 20 years capturing huge amounts of new tax dollars.

September 25, 2013 at 1:34 p.m.
soakya said...

plaintruth,

I have a nephew who says he makes over 19 dollars an hour.

September 25, 2013 at 1:43 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Soakya. Plus bennies. I presume they have decent ins. etc., no?

September 25, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.
nucanuck said...

soakya, my debt repayment comment was a macro reference, not aimed at Danville. Zero growth limits the ability to expand the money supply and diminish the relative size of debt. Governments are addicted to growth and push it as the answer for what ails them. Conservative stewardship is an old concept ready to make a comeback.

September 25, 2013 at 1:50 p.m.
jesse said...

Here ya go! All about what they pay the peons!!

September 25, 2013 at 2:28 p.m.
tifosi said...

soakya... you apparently have not woke up to the changing world. If you want to reap the rewards, then plenty of cities and states are willing to accept some of the risk. Welcome to modern capitalism. Time to catch up.

September 25, 2013 at 2:37 p.m.
soakya said...

What rewards are you referring to tifosi? Are you not paying attention? Higher unemployment rate, less actual employees, larger debt, higher population, more government employees, higher taxes, property and sales tax flat. Time for you to wake up. Its not working!

September 25, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.
joneses said...

nucanuck,

Of course middle class America is shrinking. This is what the socialist, communist, liberals, progressives want. Two things are always missing from communist countries. One, a middle class and the other religion. The middle class is shrinking under obama and also there are attacks on religion in America never seen before. Obama will not tell you but It is obvious what obama wants to move the country forward to.

September 25, 2013 at 4:01 p.m.
joneses said...

Todays Headline

"8 Chattanooga VW Workers File Federal Complaint About UAW Unionization Process"

These union thugs have already started their deceitful practices. What kind of an idiot would trust these liars with their money. If the VW employees end up being owned by the union, and that is what they will be, they will regret every bit of it.

September 25, 2013 at 4:20 p.m.
nucanuck said...

joneses, you have one funny view-finder. I don't know of any ideology that wants to destroy the middle class. To what purpose?

September 25, 2013 at 4:22 p.m.
tifosi said...

soakya: Where do you get your stats??? 2500 jobs were brought here, including mine. I now pay sales and property taxes here. I spend money shopping here. I help stimulate the local economy. C'mon dude... it is Econ 101. Just ask Maximus. He loves the money VW brings to him.

You refer to things on a national scale. Because VW came here, the local economy barely felt the recession.

September 25, 2013 at 4:24 p.m.
soakya said...

Tifosi, Hamilton county and TN financial statements. You apparently slept thru class.

Did Volkswagen and the Mega Deals boost the Hamilton County –Tennessee economy? According to recent report by the University of Tennessee paid for by the Chattanooga Chamber of Commerce or more correctly, taxpayers, Volkswagen has saved not only Hamilton County but Tennessee and put them both on the path to the land flowing with jobs and prosperity.

The contents of the report was made public June 05 by the Times Free Press. The report was nothing more than a precursor for a future request of additional taxpayer money as evidenced by a June 07 Times Free Press article “Incentives part of VW talks, Chattanooga, Hamilton mayors say.” The chart below shows the actual results in Hamilton County from 2001-12. In 2006-07 we see a sharp incline in population which continues to climb until 2012. In the same time period we see a rise in the number of unemployed and a decline in the actual number of employees. Since 2007 the number of unemployed has increased by 5,550 and the number employed has fallen by 5,440. Per Capita income grew at a faster pace from 2001-2007. Per capita income grew by 26% or $7,971 dollars during 2001-07 compared to 4% or $1,829 dollars from 2007-2011. From 2007-12 the employed to civilian labor force ratio rate fell by 3.32 %. Today, more than 2 years after Volkswagen opened their doors Hamilton County has fewer workers and more unemployed and slower growth in per capita income. Take a look at the debt over the same 6 years. It has ballooned to over 200 million. Elected officials and those that support these handouts (PILOT Agreements) will say the majority of the debt is due to schools. Ok. How is that not connected to these agreements? Tennessee looks almost identical to Hamilton County. In 2007 TN had 9,400 more people working than in 2012. A massive 101,100 Tennessean’s joined the unemployment line since 2007 and we have added $1,061,526,000 in net bonded debt. Since 2007 the employed to civilian labor force ratio has declined by 3.1%. Per capita income also grew at a faster pace from 2001-07, $6904 dollars or 26% compared to $4487 dollars or 13% from 2007-12.
The only thing that has taken place is a shuffling of jobs from one industry to another and from one county to the other and from one state to another state.

September 25, 2013 at 4:33 p.m.
soakya said...

The Chamber and elected officials are using the same hypothetical fuzzy math as Washington. They say without Volkswagen the numbers would have been worse. I believe we could have done worse for a lot cheaper. How do you measure what could have happened and when did that become an economic indicator? How about measuring what happened. It’s time to quit digging and put down the shovel. Both Tennessee and Hamilton County have fewer workers today even after Hemlock, Wacker, Amazon, Volkswagen, Electrolux, Whirlpool, and a host of hundreds of other PILOT agreements. What would have been the consequences if neither Tennessee nor Hamilton County offered PILOT agreements? Is it possible people would have moved to where they could have found work. What’s wrong with moving? Would we have experienced such a population growth? Would new schools need to be built? Would the debt have sky rocketed? If the objective was to increase Tennessee’s and Hamilton County population, the number of people unemployed and bond debt, congratulations, job well done. TN and Hamilton County certainly has seen a population boom, but jobs have not kept pace with this growth. How much of this population explosion is a result of the mega deals TN has handed out. Government at all levels need to get out of the way and quit spreading the risk to taxpayers.
Did the mega deals save TN? Did Volkswagen save Hamilton County and TN? You can decide for yourself if 727 million in federal, state, and local tax incentives for 2,415 direct jobs at Volkswagen was worth it. If you believe the cost is worth it, do nothing. However, if you feel differently tell your elected representatives it’s time for them to get a back bone and tell the Chamber, the industrial development board and the companies they represent if they want a physical presence in TN they need to assume all the risk involved and pay their taxes like the rest of us and quit expecting tax dollars to subsidize their business.

Source:TN.Gov Hamilton County Financial Statements TN Financial Statement Census Bureau estimate

Now go back and look at Danville, VA stats I posted above. You tell me who looks better.

September 25, 2013 at 4:34 p.m.
jesse said...

NucanuK, I may be wrong but didn't the communist Khymer Rouge in Cambodia Pretty much wipe out the middle class?ON PURPOSE!!

September 25, 2013 at 5:09 p.m.
tifosi said...

" Did Volkswagen save Hamilton County and TN? You can decide for yourself if 727 million in federal, state, and local tax incentives for 2,415 direct jobs at Volkswagen was worth it."

Dude... you fell off your high-chair? No federal money has ever been spent. It is $570 million from the state, city and county.

"What would have been the consequences if neither Tennessee nor Hamilton County offered PILOT agreements?"

Volkswagen, Gestamp, Thyssen-Krupp, Chattanooga Seating, Amazon, Alstom would never have come here. Too many other cities recognize the economics. They sure as hell would have never even thought about Chattanooga.

"Tennessee and Hamilton County have fewer workers today".

Your ignorance is mind-boggling. Do you do any research before you type?

Chattanooga's population grew 2.15% since 2010. Guess when Volkswagen, Gestamp, Thyssen-Krupp, Chattanooga Seating, Amazon, Alstom opened shop here? 2010!!! Chattanooga has always been the 4th largest city in Tennessee in my lifetime. It is close to becoming 3rd, moving Knoxville down the list. How many big-box manufacturers have opened there since 2010? NONE!!!

Go to Greeneville, SC and see the effects of 20 years of BMW and Michelin.

I came from Oak Ridge. They are dying. The federal bureaucrats there do nothing. Just like you want Chattanooga to do. All the folks that work at Y-12 and the Oak Ridge National Lab live in Farragut. Homes in Oak Ridge are becoming dilapidated, the school system is no longer the best in the state, crime and drugs are creeping in. The youth are leaving because they have no opportunities.

There are at least a 1,000 people at Volkswagen that did not live here before 2010.

Stay in your stubborn little Tea Party world and I will keep voting for the likes of Claude Ramsey. A very good and smart man. Hope he comes back to Hamilton County soon.

September 25, 2013 at 5:26 p.m.
prairie_dog said...

And, why is it that the UAW shows up AFTER the factory is built?

Yeah, bring them in. Detroit is doing GREAT!

September 25, 2013 at 5:55 p.m.
soakya said...

tifosi,

are you saying the financial statements for Hamilton county and the state are incorrect? and you know this without even looking at them. liberals never cease to amaze me with their brilliance.

go to this link. http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Section-48C-Tax-Credits-Allocated-January-7,-2010

then come back and tell me VW didn't receive 150 million federal tax credit. also notice wacker and hemlock are on that list. you might want to follow your own ignorant advice before you start tapping on that keyboard.

let me give you another stat. Cleveland is only safer than 4% of all the cities in the nation and of course there is no crime in Chattanooga. http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/cleveland/crime/

September 25, 2013 at 6:28 p.m.
soakya said...

oh yeah, I forgot, I think Alstom is on that list too with a 65 million federal tax credit. And if I'm not mistaken I believe they have already had 2 different layoffs. How long have they been here? You liberals are the biggest hypocrites. You say you hate corporate welfare until it provides you with a nice paying job on the backs of those that are making less than you. Pathetic.

September 25, 2013 at 6:52 p.m.
nucanuck said...

jesse, my recollection about Cambodia was genocide against the educated class which I suppose may have been the upper edge of the middle class.

September 25, 2013 at 8:27 p.m.
andystaab said...

I know a guy who was making $24.xx per hour at VW when the plant started up and all he had was a high school diploma. He quit after a couple of months because "the work was too hard." He works construction now, which apparently is less physically demanding (!) Right!

September 25, 2013 at 8:29 p.m.
tifosi said...

Soakya: Hell yeah! I'm glad those tax credits were given out. It is called smart business in terms of growing an economy. Heaven help us if the Tea Baggers had their way. The Dow Jones is breaking records, the economy is rebounding and the Tea Party is shrinking. Recovery Baby!

September 25, 2013 at 9:16 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Tea Party is shrinking?

September 25, 2013 at 9:20 p.m.
tifosi said...

Tea Party is ineffective, ruined and lost. The GOP is leaving them behind since they are a liability. America is too smart for the Tea Party B.S.

Joe Carr looks to lose by a huge margin. Sucks to be in the Tea Party in Tennessee.

September 25, 2013 at 9:26 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Nuc: Kymer Rouge murdered and starved millions. More, I think, than the educated.

September 25, 2013 at 9:27 p.m.
tifosi said...

Ten Signs the Tea Party Is dead:

  1. Disappearing Heroes: In 2010, Tea heroine Christine O’Donnell lost 56% to 40% to Sen. Chris Coons — then swiftly disappeared … and then endorsed Mitt Romney. What’s Sarah Palin up to now? Does her endorsement matter? Where are Joe Miller and Sharron Angle?

  2. Tea Party Gov. Scott Walker Faces Recall: Those wishing to recall Tea Party Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker needed 700,000 signatures to put the recall in play. They collected over a million.

Walker rode the Tea Party wave into the Governor’s mansion in 2010, the same year the Tea Party driven GOP took over the House. Now Gov. Walker is staring straight into the face of political headwinds blowing hard in the opposite direction. Other Tea Governors continue to impress with historically low approval numbers. Swing state Govs. Rick Scott of Florida and John Kasich of Ohio are examples.

  1. Congressional approval ratings: As the polls roll in it is crystal clear: the House is in the throes of their most unpopular period in at least 50 years. Congressional approval numbers were never anything to brag about. But when did they freefall to historic lows? In the eighth months the GOP Tea Party filled House fought over the debt ceiling. Everyone knows Congress is broken in an endless get-nothing-done cycle of gridlock. But the polls indicate who the public specifically blames: House Republicans. It was after the GOP won the majority in the House that congressional approval ratings hit their lowest point in American history.

  2. Tea Candidates for the White House Tank: House Tea Party Caucus founder and Chair Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-MN) only received 5% of the vote in Iowa and received 23,934 votes less than a Senator who lost his seat 6 years ago by 708,000 votes. The other Tea Party candidate, Texas Gov. Rick Perry, received 92,000 votes less than Mitt Romney and 40,000 less than moderate Jon Huntsman in the “live free or die” state.

  3. Florida Tea Party Convention No-Shows : Not even Tea Party Florida Gov. Rick Scott attended the Florida Tea Party Convention in November 2011 – he cancelled last minute. Florida Tea Party hero Sen. Marco Rubio did the same. The 3-day convention had no high profile conservatives in attendance. Could this have happened in early 2010?

September 25, 2013 at 9:42 p.m.
tifosi said...
  1. Capitulation and Defeat: Has “ObamaCare” been repealed? No. Did the Balance Budget Amendment pass? No. Did the Ryan Budget pass? No. In the midst of the payroll tax fight, the talking-loud-and-passing-nothing-into-law Tea Party members released statements like: “I am disappointed that our Republican leadership in both the House and Senate chose a course of political expediency rather than standing on conservative principle.” More importantly: The Tea Party has failed to find a way to leverage power and move legislation through both the House and the Senate and onto the President’s desk. Even Newt Gingrich figured out a way to do that with a Democrat in the White House.

  2. GOP Town Halls Disappear: In September 2011 there may have been more cops than constituents at House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s (R-VA) Richmond town hall. That town hall required an “invite.” Two hundred “uninvited” protesters appeared outside. Last April, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) discovered he couldn’t hold a town hall without police protection. A few cops by the door is one thing. Having to leave through a back door and being driven in a police car is another. That’s what happened to Ryan in April 2011 almost exactly a year after Congressional Democrats pushed through Health Care reform legislation. All the Tea Talk demanding public officials “listening to the people” has vanished.

  3. Ohio voters repeal measure to stifle collective bargaining for public employees: Last November a move made by yet another over-reaching Tea Party governor, Ohio’s John Kasich, was repealed. Seven hundred thousand signatures were collected to get the measure on the ballot. Four hundred thousand public employees would have been denied the right to strike and collectively bargain had the measure become law.

  4. Remember all those big rallies? September 12, 2009 anyone? The massive November 5, 2009 rally in Washington D.C. to protest the health care bill? The people around the Capitol the week of March 14th during the final week of debate on health care reform? Where is all that now?

  5. The House Tea Party “One and Done” List Lengthens: Remember the names of Reps. Blake Farenthold, Joe Walsh, Robert Dold, Bobby Schilling, Adam Kinzinger and Allen West. Refer back to this list again in January 2013 and ask yourself: How many of these people are still in Congress.

September 25, 2013 at 9:42 p.m.
tifosi said...

Loved this one and is worth repeating:

The Tea Party has failed to find a way to leverage power and move legislation through both the House and the Senate and onto the President’s desk. Even Newt Gingrich figured out a way to do that with a Democrat in the White House.

LOSER!!!

September 25, 2013 at 9:44 p.m.
tifosi said...

"Kymer Rouge murdered and starved millions. More, I think, than the educated."

I work with a survivor.

September 25, 2013 at 9:47 p.m.
soakya said...

Tifosi, You said VW received no federal money.

Good for you the tea party doesn't have their way or else you would be working at the favorite market instead of being propped up by the taxpayers.

September 25, 2013 at 9:52 p.m.
tifosi said...

Hey, I was wrong. More than you could admit. Feel safe hiding behind your anonymous keyboard?

Good for Tennessee that the voting tax payers have more smarts than you. They elect folks with a mind for business and a growing economy. Tennessee Rocks!

Apparently your economic genius hasn't made into mainstream yet. Keep on trying... ROFLMAO.

September 25, 2013 at 9:56 p.m.
soakya said...

I wasn't wrong and you didn't admit you were wrong, you only said you were glad they got the credit.

Are you the poster that listed their personal information then complained for days that someone outed you. if you wanted everyone to know who you were why were you whining and complaining about someone just reposting your information? You were trying to hide behind an anonymous name just like everyone else on here but you posted your own information and someone just clicked on your avatar to see who you were. So get off your high horse because you would still be hiding behind your screen name also if not for the recent event. Typical liberal, always the victim and never willing to accept responsibility.

just went back and read some of your post, you might want to go back and read the 7 traits of character you posted.

September 25, 2013 at 10:01 p.m.
joneses said...

nucanuck,

The communist ideology destroys the middle class and so is obamas policies. If I am wrong then why is the middle class shrinking more under obama?

September 26, 2013 at 5:48 a.m.
Maximus said...

Tifosi, since we all work through the month of May to pay our federal taxes, unless of course you are a no count Obama voting welfare moocher or "26 year old child", don't you feel like WE ARE TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY?

Just sayin yo. If you do not think we are taxed enough already then you are a complete idiot wrapped up in some kind of elitist Obama give the little people a taste of class warfare social justice while I pile up riches snd hang out with Jay Z kind of mentality. I'm not saying you hang out with JayZ it would be more like our gay Democrat mayor Andy Burke.

September 26, 2013 at 8:19 a.m.
tifosi said...

"Are you the poster that listed their personal information then complained for days that someone outed you."

No. But, I did notice that none of the Tea Baggers have the guts to reveal themselves.

Maxipuss: I don't think everyone pays their fair share. I also think you are full of shyte.

September 26, 2013 at 10:32 a.m.
nucanuck said...

joneses,

The destruction of the middle class isn't a recent news event based on Obama policy and I assume that you know that. Let's assume the middle class peaked in the 1970s. Since the early '80s tax laws, corporate perks, deregulation, and Federal reserve policy has eroded the middle class. We have witnessed the biggest transfer of wealth in history and it was all "legal".

Obama is no better, no worse than his predecessors. He, like Congress, seems to work within the space allowed by those who finance the election cycle, the big banks and major corporations. When it comes to foreign policy, add in AIPAC as an additional controlling influence.

Those who still think that our problems are caused by party ideology are missing a good lesson in national failure writ large. The US train wreck is a direct result of the private sector buying off the public sector and then heading out of town with the cookie jar. We are not in a cyclical downturn, we are in the early stages of a depression and all that implies. There will be a new America, but we will have to work together to discover what it can be and that will take time...a lot of time.

September 26, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.
tifosi said...

KENNEBUNK, Maine -- Former President George H.W. Bush was an official witness at the same-sex wedding of two longtime friends, his spokesman said.

Bush and his wife, Barbara Bush, attended the ceremony joining Bonnie Clement and Helen Thorgalsen as private citizens and friends on Saturday, said spokesman Jim McGrath.

Thorgalsen posted a photo on her Facebook page showing Bush signing the marriage license as a witness. She captioned the photo: "Getting our marriage license witnessed!"

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/26/20701781-george-hw-bush-serves-as-witness-at-same-sex-wedding?lite

September 26, 2013 at 11:23 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ol' 41. What's not to like?

September 26, 2013 at 11:35 a.m.
nucanuck said...

PT,

I never cared much for his deep CIA background. He could tell us a lot if only he would.

September 26, 2013 at 1:01 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Nuc: not as much as Petreus.

September 26, 2013 at 1:38 p.m.
nucanuck said...

'41 could tell us about JFK and the coup d'état.

September 26, 2013 at 1:46 p.m.
soakya said...

tifosi,

You said you came from Oak Ridge. if you don't mind I would like to ask you a couple of questions. When did you come here and why?

September 26, 2013 at 2:20 p.m.
Maximus said...

Tifosi....two words....fair share....SO GAY! Go back to toothless Oak Ridge. Although Oak Ridge did play a part in one of the best guvment projects ever. Mushroom clouds over Japan to end WWII. A thing of beauty and a reason why a lot of us are alive today. My Dad shipped home from the Pacific a few weeks after the big booms to create, yes, wait for it........Maximus. Dad never claimed that life was unfair or that he DESERVED to get HIS fair share from someone else's hard earned income. Tifosi your fair share attitude along with our Marxist elitist pimp prez makes me vomit. No Dad did not expect to receive his fair share, like me he went out every day, as a real man should and earned it! Ball up Tifosi and look for something that apparently you lost long ago....your pride.

September 26, 2013 at 6:17 p.m.
volsam said...

tifosi, The Bush clan are and i mean ALL Bushes are progressive rino republicans. Anything any of them do is not worthy of press coverage.H.W. started us down this rode to surfdom.Bill Clinton speed it up,W sent it into overdrive,and Barry the welfare pimp sent us into hyperdrive.As a non republican conservative I felt it was my duty to read the book Rules for radicals by Saul Alinsky.Scary stuff if you are a free market capitalist.Barry, Hillary,and Bill did.Barry actually taught a course on it.Make no mistake Barry is not a John F. Kennedy democrat.He is a die hard progressive who wants to tear down our system and replace it with something transformative.What that is is not capitalism.If you haven't read the book you should.Unless your a commie or a socialist it may open your eyes it sure did mine.This challenge goes out to all other dems as well.If you want to lose the greatest system in the history of the world keep defending these progressive socialists and it will all be gone for your children and grandchildren.

September 26, 2013 at 7:41 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

volsom: Prepare for incoming.

September 26, 2013 at 8:22 p.m.
tifosi said...

Maxipussy said: "Tifosi your fair share attitude along with our Marxist elitist pimp prez makes me vomit."

I love seeing you suffer. I will thoroughly enjoy many more years of it, since your Teabagging is a loser movement. I'll send you a case of Pepto-Bismol. You're gonna need it.

My father was 3rd Marine Division. They were known for their sacrifices on Iwo Jima. He was preparing for the invasion of Kyushu when the bombs were dropped. He was a radioman - traditionally... they don't live very long. He used his G.I. Bill, just like I would later, to get his education. Your tax dollars paid for mine. :) I'm sure you think the G.I. Bill is another socialist program we should do away with. My father had a masters degree in mechanical engineering from UT. He spent 33 years at Y-12 and X-10 building more atomic bombs in Oak Ridge. He had all his teeth and he voted Democrat his entire life.

So tell us Maxidud... what kind of B.S. degree do you have? I bet you excelled in Vending Machine 101.

September 26, 2013 at 8:29 p.m.
volsam said...

I'm ready with facts as long as they don't bash me for telling the truth

September 26, 2013 at 8:39 p.m.
tifosi said...

volsam- Why do you think Americans keeping voting in Presidents that do this sort of thing? Maybe it is what they want. They call it Democracy. Maybe, the vast majority of Americans don't like the way you think and they don't believe a word coming out of the Teabaggers.

BTW, the Dow Jones is setting records. President Obama's socialist program just keeps failing!!! Housing is cranking up too... oh my the tragedy of it all. THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

September 26, 2013 at 8:42 p.m.
degage said...

Volsam, I also read rules for radicals. Our leftist on this forum must not have read it or they wouldn't be on the left. Both Hillary and Obama said they were students of the Saul Alinsky ideology. The moderate Democrats are just following the new progressive group because they are democrats. What they don't realize is the progressives highjacked the democrat party.

September 26, 2013 at 8:49 p.m.
tifosi said...

Degage... title of books are capitalized. "Rules for Radicals"

They teach you that in 3rd grade.

September 26, 2013 at 9 p.m.
volsam said...

degage, you couldn't have said it better.I The feel sorry for the good people who think the ruling class dems are actually dems.These good people are being led to the slaughter house and don't even realize it.They have been building this movement for 100 years.With George Sorros in command the democrats no longer exists.The democratic party is closer to the modern mushy republican party than they realize.

September 26, 2013 at 9:03 p.m.
Maximus said...

Tifosi I've got news for you, your Dad, thanks for his service by the way, A Bombs are a great use of tax dollars, but your Dad voted for a different Democrat party back in the day. Harry Truman and JFK, both military vets I think we're not the type of Marxist class warfare prick that our pimp prez is. I'm sure your Dad was a union man also which explains his loyalty to the Dems. As usual, you libs use the all or nothing debating tactic when it comes to guvment programs. No, I am not against ALL guvment programs. The GI Bill makes good sense although my Dad refused to take such assistance. The GI Bill REQUIRES the recipient to work hard to get their degree and then pay it forward by working in the usually PRIVATE sector. Your Dad probably would have been much more successful $$$$$$ working in the private sector instead of just spending all those years in the Oak Ridge Plant working for a lousy guvment pension. Oh well, some folks can't compete in the private sector and have to settle for a government job to get their fair share. Sad really.

September 26, 2013 at 9:10 p.m.
Maximus said...

Tifosi....yes the Dow Jones is setting records and so are my investments. Makin it rain baby, makin it rain! Thanks Barry. Meanwhile..........the poor, that fell for Barry Da Pimps Hope and Change message are falling further behind. Blacks, forget about it......Barry is already thinking about those six figure speaker fees he will be charging in a few years. Obama, once a Pimp always a Pimp!

September 26, 2013 at 9:15 p.m.
volsam said...

tifosi, it's because they are running against mushy moderates.You have to admit, even if you don't want to,a strong conservative with the conservative message would have cleaned Obama's clock.We also don't live in a democracy,we live in a republic.The conservative message is limited government,strong national defense, self reliance,strong family values,and taking care of the truly needy who have no one else to help.We believe in clean water, clean environment and regulation that makes sense and actually work.Why would anyone object to that.I went to the first tea party rally and those teabaggers were the nicest most well behaved people i have ever met. I admit some of their offshoots do seem a little radical but the first meeting was all about being taxed to death to support the social justice Saul and Berry have pushed for.

September 26, 2013 at 9:25 p.m.
Maximus said...

Tifosi....let's face it, I think your bad ass Dad would want you to vote Republican. No way a WWII Marine warrior like your Dad would support the party of U Tube Video Hillary The Chubby Menapausal Old Witch and Barry The Coward Welfare Pimp.

Your Dad would ball up and support Ted Cruz. He is the only politician with guts and conviction in D. C. right now! And what's up with Corker....dude needs a haircut and a relocation plan to Nancy Pelosiville.

September 26, 2013 at 10:18 p.m.
degage said...

Tofosi, Sorry about that, is that all you could find wrong with that post. yup I did learn that in 3rd grade. Maybe if that book deserved Capitals they would have been there.

September 27, 2013 at 5:56 a.m.
Hunter_Bluff said...

From the magazine that calls itself "Capitalist Tool" (Forbes) the vote of the people with their money. http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/09/25/wal-mart-returning-to-full-time-workers-obamacare-not-such-a-job-killer-after-all/

September 27, 2013 at 9:14 a.m.
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