published Sunday, February 9th, 2014

The Union Vote

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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onetinsoldier said...

The blue coats are coming, The blue coats are coming. It's about time.

February 9, 2014 at 1:43 a.m.
fairmon said...

VW pay and benefits with a clean safe place to work are among the best in the labor supply area.

A few of the questions VW employees may want to consider are:

o What can a union promise employees in writing that can be delivered that will off set the membership cost?

o Can a union promise and provide job security when fewer are needed due to moving production to another location or the economy slumps?

o Will the union assume the authority to make some or any of the decisions now made by VW management?

o What is the unions motive for spending money to organize VW? Do they, like a business spending money, anticipate making a return on their investment?

o Is their concern for VW employees or their need to retain their own security and liberal compensation with the added income from dues?

o Will the union and the local leaders always be receptive to what the majority of employees at this location prefer?

Those satisfied with the answers to these questions and others they may have and think a union would improve job satisfaction should vote for becoming a union site. Those not able to answer these questions or others to their satisfaction would be wise to vote no.

February 9, 2014 at 3:14 a.m.
EaTn said...

Union busting has always been popular with politicians, but it was the unions that helped elevate the middle-class in the latter half of last century. Demise of the unions did not stop corporations from transferring jobs overseas. Modern corporations have begun to realize the benefits of unions attracting, training and maintaining a quality workforce. Unions have also begun to realize the benefit of the carrot over the stick mentality in their dealings with management.

February 9, 2014 at 4:40 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Want to know why the auto manufacturers have moved south in the past 30 or so years? That's right, to get away from the unions.

I would invite the workers at VW to take a tour of the once proud cities of the north such as Detroit, Milwaukee, Youngstown and Gary and see for themselves the handiwork of the unions.

They must also be made to know that most every dollar of their union dues goes to keep and elect democrats only.

Any republican worker that votes for unionization needs his/her head examined.

February 9, 2014 at 5:13 a.m.
fairmon said...

EaTn said...Modern corporations have begun to realize the benefits of unions attracting, training and maintaining a quality workforce.

Can you provide a few examples other than the construction trades where that is happening?

February 9, 2014 at 6:37 a.m.
fairmon said...

TOES02800 said...

Want to know why the auto manufacturers have moved south in the past 30 or so years? That's right, to get away from the unions.

I would invite the workers at VW to take a tour of the once proud cities of the north such as Detroit, Milwaukee, Youngstown and Gary and see for themselves the handiwork of the unions

Toes, Boneheaded poor management was complicit in the results. There was no requirement that management agree and enter a contract with inefficient work practices, excessive compensation for jobs not meriting the comp rates and other management limitations imposed by contract.

The pension liability of American auto manufacturers will again implode on them and will result in the need for more government assistance.

Anyone that believes the NLRB is an unbiased third party that is not seeking to advance the need for that government entity for self serving selfish reasons is naïve beyond help.

February 9, 2014 at 6:54 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

The dumbest toon in the history of ever.

February 9, 2014 at 7:29 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

The cartoon should have stated with check boxes: Liberal Democrats' Way or The Highway.

Of course it will be the Liberal Democrats' Way so VW Chattanooga can help Obama "share the wealth." With the UAW, of course.

February 9, 2014 at 8:03 a.m.
LibDem said...

Decisions like this should be made by politicians, not workers. The Governor and his friends know what's good for the workforce.

February 9, 2014 at 8:03 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Toes, I guess the "demise of Detroit, Milwaukee, Youngstown, and Gary" is placed solely at the feet of the "union"? I guess GM and Ford choosing to continue put out ugly, gas guzzlers in the 80's and 90's while the overseas companies were putting out stylish, fuel economy cars had nothing to do with it? Also, the Japanese pride themselves on streamlining manufacturing, but that couldn't be a reason either. While excessive union pay and benefits may have been a contributing factor, to say it's the sole reason is ignorance.

February 9, 2014 at 8:12 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Toes or Joe P., do you work at VW? What does it matter to you what VW management and employees choose to do at their workplace?

February 9, 2014 at 8:18 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

GI: I have to agree with you. What is the big deal? Do you even know what the european works council actually does? Toes has no clue that total focus on the bottom line at the expense of investment in the future is pretty much what caused the demise of Big Steel and the auto companies. Some of the latter, by the way are on a resurgence because they opened their eyes to the Japanese management style (created by an American, btw).

There is another issue. If a living wage is a requirement for fair wages, then the cost of goods produced by people earning a living wage is the appropriate cost. (Try to put all those worms back in the same can.)

February 9, 2014 at 8:26 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

IQ: So the VW workers are not now getting a fair shake?

February 9, 2014 at 8:36 a.m.

Shockingly worthless piece of propaganda.

Auto companies companies come to the south because there aren't unions. That's the main reason.

VW provides jobs, a great place to work, and good pay. Nobody is getting screwed over, and VW is as solid a company as there is.

This isn't 1910, it's 2014. Modern unions are just a tool for the left.

February 9, 2014 at 8:49 a.m.
moon4kat said...

VW's management wants a unionized workforce.
Why should "conservative" politicians object? Don't they want to keep government out of business decisions?

February 9, 2014 at 8:50 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

The UAW will do to Chattanooga VW what Hitler did to Germany.

February 9, 2014 at 8:51 a.m.
moon4kat said...

Really, Joe? How is that going happen? Your comment is just an empty scare tactic with nothing to back it up.

February 9, 2014 at 8:55 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

moonbeam says "VW's management wants a unionize(d) workforce". Really, Moon? Why?

February 9, 2014 at 8:56 a.m.
moon4kat said...

PT, why does it matter to you? Don't you want government out of business decisions?

February 9, 2014 at 9 a.m.
degage said...

gaus, Do you work at VW? If not do you really care if the union is in or not? If the workers are already getting fair wages and benefits why do so many lefties want the union in there, guess it is to give more money to the unions so they can help elect democrats. We are all aware that the majority of union money goes to democrats. In the early 1900"s the unions were helpful but they have evolved into money grubbers. The officals take elaborate vacations and live high on the hog just like the CEO's of many companys.

February 9, 2014 at 9:02 a.m.
soakya said...

taxpayers should be concerned because they own about 35% of VW. regardless of which way it goes VW won't be here in 10 years. VW's sales for the year down 7%, for January down 17% and Passat sales down 30% for January. they are so desperate they are considering manufacturing a pickup in Chattanooga. VW and Wacker will be long gone and taxpayers will be stuck with the bill.

I personally hope the employees vote no to the union because if not, it will provide cover for the chamber and politicians when it goes under. they will blame the union.

February 9, 2014 at 9:03 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

Inquiringmind, it would be asking too much to suggest the anti union crowd do some research on W. Edwards Deming or to read "The Reckoning" by Pulitzer Prize winner David Halberstam. Deming's ideas were rejected by the Big 3 and he went to Japan and revolutionized their industry. The demise of the Big 3 was mostly brought about by their refusal to innovate in new technology, quality control, and updating their plants. Americans turned to Japanese and other foreign makes because of their quality and innovation while the Big 3 continued to churn out autos that seemed to have planned obsolescence as their chief feature.

February 9, 2014 at 9:12 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

Detroit. New Stanton.

February 9, 2014 at 9:27 a.m.

Hotdiggity, what does that have to do with his modern, well run VW plant? What does the demise of the Big 3 up north have to do with these new auto plants in the south. Nothing.

Modern Unions are corporations that rake in millions, if not billions, and Top heavy with greedy, politically minded jerks. They're tools of the Democrat Party. With all the tons of government interference, "standards", regulations, and public scrutiny, that VW has to balance, unions aren't necessary. Libs hate the south, period.

February 9, 2014 at 9:29 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

moon. why does it matter to you? Hate to see the vw workers pump money into the vault of the "thug corrupted* union. And reap what in return? A clean, safe workplace? Good pay? Hello.

February 9, 2014 at 9:29 a.m.
tifosi said...

This is one cartoon that Clay is dead-wrong about.

I have experienced the division that the UAW creates. It has already created an anarchistic group within VW Chattanooga that has resorted to tearing urinals off the walls, defecating in a stairwell and putting UAW stickers on company property. It is clearly a bunch of hoodlums that if they don't get their way, there will be hell to pay.

If anyone is un-happy at VW they can leave any time. No one is chained to their work station. Wages are fair, benefits are the best and the plant is becoming more Americanized as Germans return home after the start-up.

There is nothing good that will come out of the UAW in Chattanooga. Tennesseans can stand up for themselves. We don't need Yankee thuggery.

February 9, 2014 at 9:37 a.m.
soakya said...

"It has already created an anarchistic group within VW Chattanooga that has resorted to tearing urinals off the walls, defecating in a stairwell and putting UAW stickers on company property. It is clearly a bunch of hoodlums that if they don't get their way, there will be hell to pay."-Tifosi

sounds like OWS has infiltrated VW. Did you call them anarchistic and hoodlums when they were on wall street doing the same?

February 9, 2014 at 9:42 a.m.
tifosi said...

Stay on topic soakya. Take your meds.

February 9, 2014 at 9:58 a.m.
Maximus said...

EaTn.....Unionization and the increased cost and burden of guvment regulations, especially environmental regulations have CAUSED corporations to move their manufacturing operations overseas. You can also factor in a point that Obama ignores because he gets large amounts of money from them....lawyers. Our legal system is in desperate need of tort reform which the Democrats ignore.

No remember, VW is a German company. Germany, a country composed mostly of white people, is a social democracy, where government provides healthcare, 5 weeks of "holiday" per year, basically a cradle to grave program like the Danes, French, etc. Apparently the management of VW does not understand that you can have a management/assembly line non-management worker council without having to invite a scum sucking UAW thug. Most corporations now a days like non-union Google, Amazon, Costco, IBM, Nike, Starbucks, Whole Foods, Wal Mart, Pfizer, and many others have broken down management hierarchies and maintain an open door relationship with management. Remember, old sport, only 7% of the American private sector workforce is unionized, with the largest union being The Guvment Employees Union and they can't even build a website that works! Ever hear of Obamacare! Lol. No a unionized VW plant will be bad for Chattanooga and VW will be moving OUT of the area within 5 years of unionization which I'm sure will make many jobless bohemian welfare mooching anti corporation Democrats very happy. %#€¥

February 9, 2014 at 10:06 a.m.
Maximus said...

Yes the UAW, like the Pro Baby Murderers (Right To Choose Abortion), Gays, Trial Lawyers, Doper Pot Heads, Blacks, Hispanics, the idle and guilty rich limo liberals, Hollywood, Enviro Wack Jobs, College Professors, Disability Scamers, Hippies, Directionless 20 Something's With Soul Crushing Jobs, and of course guvment workers......just another pawn and member of a Democrat special interest group targeted and led like idiot lemmings to the poles every election to vote D.

Obviously the UAW, whose leader by the way, mustachioed gangster Richard Trumpka, meets with Obama every month according to White House logs, is a part of Barry The Union Organizer's mid term election plan and unionization of the red state south is a Democrat party growth strategy. Google Richard Trumpka if you want to see a real Tony Soprano mafia style Yankee union thug in action. Trumpka is basically a member of the Obama cabinet and has been from day one.

February 9, 2014 at 10:23 a.m.
Maximus said...

The great impact of the UAW........a new Chevy or Ford pickup has a base price of $40,000. If you add basic options, floor mats, etc. a new pick up truck can run you $70,000! Why? You are paying for deluxe UAW retiree healthcare and pensions . No, no....the UAW will be exempt from Obamacare! Just raise the prices of the pick ups and no one says a word as long as they can afford their monthly truck payment where they will then pay $85,000 to $100,000 base + interest for their pick up truck!

Unions are obsolete and need to be disbanded in the U.S. Look what the UAW has done to Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, etc. Ghost towns,

February 9, 2014 at 10:32 a.m.
soakya said...

Ill stick to what i want. You opened the door so i called you on your hypocrisy

February 9, 2014 at 10:34 a.m.
tifosi said...

Back it up soakya. You talk out your ass.

February 9, 2014 at 10:39 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Maximus said... "Yes the UAW, like the Pro Baby Murderers (Right To Choose Abortion), Gays, Trial Lawyers, Doper Pot Heads, Blacks, Hispanics...

OOPS! You forgot that you are black... again!

February 9, 2014 at 10:43 a.m.
jesse said...

Been in 3 unions in my life, the teamsters, the fop and the ironworkers! The only one that was worth the dues was the ironworkers!

February 9, 2014 at 10:52 a.m.
tifosi said...

Ironworkers, like the IBEW and Boilermakers are legitimate trade unions that add value by teaching trades and promoting professionalism.

February 9, 2014 at 10:55 a.m.
soakya said...

Answer the question. did you call ows anarchistic and hoodlums? If you did i apologize but if you didnt i stand behind my statement, you are a hypocrit

February 9, 2014 at 10:57 a.m.
Maximus said...

Dude...as a 1%er both in income and among the 1% of blacks that saw through Master Pimp Obama and did not vote for him....the 99% of American blacks that have voted for Barry Cetera in the last two POTUS elections are sad, struggling members of the black Democrat voting block that has been led around like slaves by the Democrat party. The UAW will use them too!

February 9, 2014 at 10:57 a.m.
alprova said...

toes02800 wrote: "Want to know why the auto manufacturers have moved south in the past 30 or so years? That's right, to get away from the unions."

Be that as it may, Volkswagen has stated many times that they WELCOME union representation for all it's employees.

For that reason, Republicans and their cheerleaders need to butt out.

"I would invite the workers at VW to take a tour of the once proud cities of the north such as Detroit, Milwaukee, Youngstown and Gary and see for themselves the handiwork of the unions."

And I would invite YOU to hop a plane, go to Germany or any other nation where Volkswagen has a presence, and tour one of their plants. Be sure to talk to the workers and management to try to get a feel as to how content everyone is who works for Volkswagen.

"They must also be made to know that most every dollar of their union dues goes to keep and elect democrats only."

So?

"Any republican worker that votes for unionization needs his/her head examined."

Anyone who listens to and believes a word uttered by most Republicans needs to have his/her head examined.

February 9, 2014 at 11:05 a.m.
tifosi said...

soakya - Where did I ever mention OWS???

Maximus is not a 1%er.

February 9, 2014 at 11:06 a.m.
alprova said...

joepulitzer wrote: "The UAW will do to Chattanooga VW what Hitler did to Germany."

What a totally ignorant statement.

Hitler's reign was very bad for Germany. Not many people would argue that, but the Germany of today is thriving and a shining example of rising from the ashes of war to become a leading nation.

Some would argue that Germany would not be where it is today, without Hitler being part of the reason it has recovered so well.

What would the United States be without the Civil War? Correcting the wrongs that powerful people have committed is the only way things change for the better.

Otherwise, we might still have slaves, and white men still totally in charge of this nation.

February 9, 2014 at 11:14 a.m.
Maximus said...

We really really do not need the IBEW, Ironworkers, or Boilermakers unions. All they do is raise prices and cause employers to look elsewhere. Just go online and find a top rated electrician that is non union. Boilermakers? What? Outdated and needs to be disbanded. The IBEW out in California requires you to call them, if you employ IBEW members, to change a light bulb. Ironworkers, IBEW, and Boilermakers once again thugs that bully workers that do not want to join the union and should be closed down. When I see the IBEW guy with the goatee in the TV ads I see a union thug. No you can't support one union and then be against another. They are all outdated organizations of the 19th and 20th centuries that have a very negative impact on the economy and jobs in America. For instance, why do guvment employees have to be unionized? To protect themselves from paper cuts? Lol! A great example of the inefficiencies of the guvment employees union is the fact that even though it is billions in the red and should be privatized the U.S. Postal Service is still in business. Wow! A highly paid professional, with cradle to grave benefits paid by YOU the tax payer delivers advertising fliers and junk mail to your home every day. It's the union that is preventing progress to move forward and either close or substantially down size the Post Office. As for the whiners about the loss of postal jobs...wa wa....we don't have trin conductors or pay phone repair man anymore either. Those laid off postal workers will have to buck up, start over, and get another gig.

February 9, 2014 at 11:16 a.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "We are all aware that the majority of union money goes to democrats."

Do you ever ask why that is? What would give anyone who is on either side of a union to contribute to any Republican candidate, given the fact that Republicans have tried their level best to eliminate any trace of unionization across this nation?

"In the early 1900"s the unions were helpful but they have evolved into money grubbers."

There is some truth to that, but despite any truth to that statement, I do not want to see all unions disappear. There must be a balance, for if history should tell us anything, it is that uncontrolled domination by those on either side, can be quite fatal.

Republicans hate minimum wages, and I am confident that if they were to have their way, there are people out there who would be perfectly content to pay someone a buck and hour, if they could hire someone so desperate.

Environmental concerns are of no concern to Republicans and their cheerleaders. The evidence to that fact can be found in the archives of this very forum.

Yesirree...a functioning Government is absolutely necessary, since people left to do as they please, have and will exploit others for their own personal gain.

February 9, 2014 at 11:23 a.m.
Maximus said...

Alprova is back from the dead! Welcome back! I don't think the Jews would agree with you that the Nazis were good for Gemany. Neither would the Gypsies or the Gays.

The Krauts did have some cool uniforms. Those long black leather overcoats were dope along with the potato masher grenades and Lugers. Oh yea, Hitlers Mercedes and VW, made by Third Reich union workers were cool too! Welcome back Al.

February 9, 2014 at 11:25 a.m.
Maximus said...

Al,Republicans love the environment we just DO NOT need a Nanny State to tell us or tax us to take care of it. The environmental, green movement was a part of Nazi Party doctrine don't you know and ole Adolph was a vegetarian, druggie. Good times.

February 9, 2014 at 11:31 a.m.
alprova said...

Dude_abides wrote: "OOPS! You forgot that you are black... again!"

Good catch dude!!!

In addition to making claims about his skin color, Maxipad routinely lives a life of fantasy regarding what he owns and what he does to earn a living...

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/jun/20/evidence-room-cartoon-clay-bennett-times/?opinioncartoons#c234519

February 9, 2014 at 11:35 a.m.
alprova said...

Maxipad wrote: "Alprova is back from the dead! Welcome back!"

I didn't go anywhere. It's simply a bore to argue with some people, who will never change their minds, or educate themselves to certain truths and facts.

"I don't think the Jews would agree with you that the Nazis were good for Gemany."

Clearly you missed my point. I was not thinking of Jewish people when I made that statement. To get where Germany is today, one must give credit to all of it's history, just as we do in this nation when pondering the Civil War.

Had either event not happened, one or both nations would not be admirable as they are today.

"Neither would the Gypsies or the Gays."

Like you give a drip about either group.

"The Krauts did have some cool uniforms. Those long black leather overcoats were dope along with the potato masher grenades and Lugers. Oh yea, Hitlers Mercedes and VW, made by Third Reich union workers were cool too!"

I have suspected for quite some time that you admired the Nazis.

February 9, 2014 at 11:45 a.m.
alprova said...

Maximus wrote: "Al,Republicans love the environment we just DO NOT need a Nanny State to tell us or tax us to take care of it."

And your proof to that is WHAT? Can you name one single piece of Republican sponsored legislation aimed at improving so much as one aspect of the environment?

I sure can't.

"The environmental, green movement was a part of Nazi Party doctrine don't you know and ole Adolph was a vegetarian, druggie. Good times."

The things you type sometimes. I truly believe you smoke lots of dope yourself.

February 9, 2014 at 11:48 a.m.
Maximus said...

Al being totally devoid of a sense of humor is a common liberal trait and probably a contributor to your ill health. Uh and Teddy Roosevelt, a great Republican POTUS was a huge conservationist and created our National Park System. Of course TR did not use junk science to create a huge government bureaucracy intent upon growing government, removing freedoms, and tax us into servant hood. The whole Climate Change movement has been exposed as a Democrat party created tax scheme that like Obamacare could never be fully implemented without totalitarian guvment control which is of course what Barry The Welfare Pimpster wants!

On not her note.....how about our AG seizing control and totally trashing Constitutional Law! Heil Hitler Eric Holder! Ve vill take control no matter what the states say...........what a gay time Eric is having!

February 9, 2014 at 12:04 p.m.
Maximus said...

If VW unionizes it's Chatt facility, the Jerries will be taking their plant to Alabama! Roll Tide!

February 9, 2014 at 12:07 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo, as a man that had never heard of Joseph Goebbels, you've got no creds talking about Germany.

The guy playing Tifosi….what have you done with the real Tifosi?

February 9, 2014 at 12:31 p.m.
jesse said...

Max is right about Al's sense of humor, doesn't exist at all!!

Never learned to laugh at himself!

February 9, 2014 at 12:39 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

February 9, 2014 at 9:29 a.m. Sorry zableedofisterix, but VW sees the importance of a working relationship with its employees.

Oh, and apoligies that unions support the Democrats who care about the average person instead of corporations and the rich.

Please forgive individuals who wish to have a say in the workplace for their sweat and toil. I understand you must feel that workers should just be servants to the whim of their employers.

Conservaties scream that they are tired of others attempting to control their lives...as they meekly submit to the employer who tells them they should have no say for their work.

February 9, 2014 at 12:44 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Alprova, tried to find some refutation by Maximus for your post below. No luck so far.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/jun/20/evidence-room-cartoon-clay-bennett-times/?opinioncartoons#c234519

February 9, 2014 at 12:57 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Diggity, the Dems care about the average person? Really?

February 9, 2014 at 1:03 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Another day full of posts from lower middle income drones treating their perceived benefactors like they do their God. Believing in a trickle down world when the faucet is frozen and the pipe is ruptured upstream. Just waiting on the thaw, after which they'll whizz on our boots and tell us it's money.

February 9, 2014 at 1:06 p.m.
prairie_dog said...

VW should not have problems with union workers. They are a good company and set an example to follow.

The UAW bankrupted the Detroit auto industry, so I just hope the people around here learn from that lesson. As for VW, they have the advantage of being able to shift production to overseas plants to compensate if the local workers get too selfish. The all or none divisions which ruined Detroit can be avoided by reasonable people on both sides.

If you are familiar with the Ford plant in Atlanta that was shut down a couple of years ago, that was done because the investment in the plant to modernize it was not supported by a viable workforce. VW workers should take that to heart.

February 9, 2014 at 1:09 p.m.
soakya said...

I'll use a few of the presidents words for you tifosi. Let me be clear, have you at any time in the past called the OWS anarchist or hoodlums? you called a group at VW that is destroying and defecating on others property anarchist and hoodlums. I happen to agree that they are hoodlums. OWS did the same. I just want to know were they anarchist and hoodlums and did you call them out. Pretty clear.

February 9, 2014 at 1:12 p.m.
Maximus said...

Dude isn't it time for you to redistribute yourself and I'm not sure what living in the lower middle income world would be like but Milton Friedman's economy is sure better than Barry The Welfare Pimps economy any day of the week just ask the CBO. Like I've said three more years of this poser prez and his cast of amateur Marxists is gonna be brutal.

February 9, 2014 at 1:14 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Did you learn all that at Virginia, maxi?

February 9, 2014 at 1:20 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Plain Truth-Workers rights, womens rights, gay rights, union rights, minority rights, etc etc.

You know, average peoples rights that Democrats support. Thats just the plain truth.

February 9, 2014 at 1:20 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

prairie_dog-"The UAW bankrupted the Detroit auto industry"

Perhaps you should read "The Reckoning" by David Halberstam". Foreign automakers overtook us due to managements refusal to innovate, a blind eye to fuel efficiency, and disregard of quality control. People were willing to pay higher prices for foreign autos because of their quality and longevity.

Ergo, less American cars sold, less ability to pay decent wages/benefits to their workers.

W. Edwards Deming, a brilliant statatician, attempted to educate the Big 3 on these issues but was rebuffed. He took his ideas to Japan who implemented those ideas and allowed Japan to overtake us. Management ruined the Big 3, not the workers.

February 9, 2014 at 1:43 p.m.
Maximus said...

Very good from that good Republican paper, The Wallstreet Journal.....So far as I know, not a single priest, minister, or rabbi has yet pointed out how Barrack Obama's inflammatory campaign against inequality is a gross repudiation of the Tenth Commandment, which prohibits coveting "your neighbors house, his field, his ox, his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's.". Edward Alexander of Seattle.

Of course we know why Barry The Welfare Pimp does not give a rats ass about the 10th Commandment....he is a two bit class warfare Marxist elitist thug with only one interest....grow the ruling class and power of guvment by exploiting his ever growing cast of special interest groups. Envy, coveting of others property, victimhood all tools of the extreme left wing socialist Democrat party. Yes folks Obama does think that your money, even your shear existence, belongs to him.

February 9, 2014 at 1:56 p.m.

Stupid martyer complex. We're workers, we do this job for many years, so everyone owes us. Get over it. Companies don't exist to make sure you're personal financial situation is secure for the rest of your life, they exist to make a profit. They provide jobs. There's no burning need to have a union at VW. Why? Who's being mistreated?

February 9, 2014 at 2:31 p.m.
facyspacy said...

Alp thinks, "Republicans hate minimum wages, and I am confident that if they were to have their way, there are people out there who would be perfectly content to pay someone a buck and hour, if they could hire someone so desperate."

I think that it's not that reps don't like the min wage. I think they don't like inflation. And, no one is desperate enough to work for $1/hr.... People won't even work for $7.50 now. Live off gubment for more and not work (40%)

February 9, 2014 at 2:50 p.m.
unionyes said...

Those claiming that the UAW ruined Detroit and the US auto industry evidently have short memories. The UAW made concessions in pay, benefits and working conditions beginning in the 1970's. As the US automakers lost market share and shrunk, UAW agreed to new work rules and lower wages for future workers as well as pay freezes and a plan that turned over the legacy health care costs for retirees to the UAW, effectively wiping billions of $ of debt off the automaker's books. The UAW has been blamed for the failure of management to understand the changing auto market and respond with quality cars that Americans want to buy. Their strategy for many years was to build big SUV's and pick ups, largely ceding the car market to foreign makers.

As someone else noted, UAW members don't design cars - management does. The assembly line workers knew that the cars they were building were junk, but were told repeatedly to shut up and build the cars. Does anyone remember the Vega and the Pinto? It wasn't until the 90's that American car makers finally caught on and improved the quality of their products and were able to compete with foreign makers in the car market. I own a GMC and a Chevy, made by UAW workers, and each is approaching 175000 miles.

Foreign auto makers that located plants in the south did so to avoid unions. Ironically, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia and other manufacturers workers are unionized in their home countries. The decision to locate in the southern US was as much about avoiding their own unions as it was about avoiding the UAW.

Southerners like to brag about how they're free to negotiate directly with their employers, but any individual who thinks he or she has any leverage against a big multi-national corporation is deluding themselves. The fact that the Chattanooga VW employees have wages roughly equivalent to UAW members is because the auto makers know that paying subsistence wages would be an open invitation to the UAW. The fact is, the workers at VW already benefit from the UAW's existence.

Note that the politicians and Washington DC types opposing unionization all get big $ from anti-union groups fronted by the likes of the Koch brothers. Grover Norquist is a pimp for corporate America whose involvement is about keeping the GOP in power. Keep unions out and blow smoke up the backside of workers by creating wedge issues so working people vote against their own interests. Unions educate workers about politics, which doesn't favor the GOP.

Good luck and solidarity to the VW workers.

February 9, 2014 at 3:24 p.m.
tifosi said...

unionyes - the South owes nothing to the UAW. We re-built the South without them. Keep drinking your Kool-Aid.

February 9, 2014 at 3:30 p.m.
unionyes said...

"I think that it's not that reps don't like the min wage. I think they don't like inflation. And, no one is desperate enough to work for $1/hr.... People won't even work for $7.50 now. Live off gubment for more and not work (40%)"

Wrong. The GOP opposes minimum wage because their political masters, corporations and the wealthy who own them, want to get workers as cheaply as possible. That is the nature of capitalism, minimize your costs and maximize your revenue to increase profits. Don't delude yourself into thinking that absent a minimum wage, employers wouldn't race to the bottom as quickly as possible.

Lastly, your statement that 40% of workers live off the gubmit is not only false and misleading, it insults the millions of workers who toil for subsistence wages to provide for their families. Welfare for big corporations and the wealthy cost taxpayers a lot more then pittance we spend on social welfare. Read the farm bill congress just passed. There's more lard and giveaways to corporate America and rich "farmers" than all the federal social programs combined.

February 9, 2014 at 3:34 p.m.
unionyes said...

tifosi - still living in the Reconstruction era?

I didn't say that the south owed the UAW anything. I pointed out an economic and social fact. Stay home if you can't deal with facts.

February 9, 2014 at 3:37 p.m.
unionyes said...

Maxipad - Aside from spewing a bunch of race-baiting, coded messages about how much you hate the fact that black man occupies the WH as something other than a butler, did you have a point? When did the 10th commandment become part of the US constitution or federal law?

February 9, 2014 at 3:41 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Unionyes, after all that, I'm still not getting how a union would help VW workers.

February 9, 2014 at 3:44 p.m.
tifosi said...

The fact is that the UAW lead to the decline of the automotive industry in Detroit by protecting illegal, irresponsible and reckless acts like this. Drunken and stoned right across the street from a UAW office. Then the UAW got them their jobs back. DOH!

I have seen the divisiveness that the UAW brings.

February 9, 2014 at 3:45 p.m.
tifosi said...

PlainTruth - The fact is that the VW plant in Chattanooga is one of the most pristine and safe manufacturing facilities in the world. It pays competitive wages for the region and has excellent benefits. The bonuses are great and management routinely asks for feedback from production workers on how to make things better. The UAW will be nothing but a leech on employees and their paycheck. Nothing to offer but lies and deception. You should see the fiction that they hand out.

The State of Tennessee (tax payers) have almost $500 million invested in the VW site. VW has about $1 billion invested. Governor Haslam and other state representatives have every right to be concerned.

February 9, 2014 at 4 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

hotdiggity - yep!

February 9, 2014 at 4:09 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Tiffy. I can't refute any of that. Don't see any reason in the world for the thug union to be at VW.

February 9, 2014 at 4:15 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "Max is right about Al's sense of humor, doesn't exist at all!! Never learned to laugh at himself!"

I have a WONDERFUL sense of humor...when something is remotely humorous.

Maybe one day, you and Maxipad will write something that is funny.

February 9, 2014 at 4:16 p.m.
alprova said...

pt wrote: "Alpo, as a man that had never heard of Joseph Goebbels, you've got no creds talking about Germany."

You write that as if you knew the man personally. I'm 55 years old, and thus the only interaction with Germany has been through history books, unlike yourself, who may well have been right there to salute the man.

February 9, 2014 at 4:19 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo, apparently you missed the chapter or two on the Third Reich.

February 9, 2014 at 4:29 p.m.
tifosi said...

PT - I can say without a doubt... no one in that plant is chained to their workstation. They can get up and leave whenever they like. It has crossed my mind a time or two. But, I damn sure do not need anyone else representing me. I can do just fine.

The UAW has nothing invested in this venture. They claim to be a changed organization. I have seen no evidence of this. Their membership is weak. They are trying to increase the "strike fund" to $1 billion by increasing union dues. Get this... the UAW is promising VW they won't strike. ROFLMAO!!!!

February 9, 2014 at 4:30 p.m.
unionyes said...

Having union representation gives employees an organized way to negotiate with an employer. It's democracy in the workplace. As I stated earlier, individual employees have no leverage against a powerful employer. The ability to bargain collectively shifts the balance and gives employees a voice at work while protecting their right to voice their concerns. You are in favor of democracy, right? At VW, worker councils are the vehicle by which employees and managers work together to solve issues and improve product. It's a model that works very well for VW. US labor law prohibits the formation of worker councils without union representation because of a long history of businesses creating "company unions" which rubberstamp the employer's decisions.

Since VW is obviously in favor of unionization, what business is it of the governor or any politician? It's the workers at VW who decide. Politicians are deciding that workers don't deserve a union? When did we give politicians that kind of power? No TN politico who has opined on the subject so far is an economist, labor expert or has any expertize in understanding what effect, if any, unionizing VW might have on Tennessee's economy. So far, it's just been a series of talking points designed to scare workers into thinking that the UAW is going to bring "socialism." The truth is that what UAW might bring is a higher standard of living for the community, a better deal for workers, and the realization among other area workers that unions aren't evil, unionized workers aren't lazy, and UAW representatives don't have horns. Tennessee pols are more concerned that other workers in the state might also say - union yes. God forbid workers decide for themselves and have a way to promote and protect their interests, independent of what some politician thinks.

There is no evidence to support the contention that unionizing VW will keep other companies from locating to TN.

February 9, 2014 at 4:31 p.m.
alprova said...

The bottom line is simple. It's all up to those who actually work at the plant. Outside influence will make little difference.

Unfortunately for those who would like to see the UAW defeated, there is one aspect to this entire debate that is being overlooked, and that is the fact that Volkswagen has opened its arms to the UAW.

So keep offering all the tripe you desire, thou anti-unioners. I only know of one person who participates in this forum who will have any imput into the decision, and he's one of 3,200 or so.

February 9, 2014 at 4:32 p.m.
tifosi said...

unionyes said: "As I stated earlier, individual employees have no leverage against a powerful employer."

BULL SHYTE... I can get up and leave anytime I like. It is called FREE ENTERPRISE... here in America. I choose when, where and how much I am willing to work for. Nothing less.

February 9, 2014 at 4:35 p.m.
alprova said...

pt wrote: "Alpo, apparently you missed the chapter or two on the Third Reich."

So...tell me; How many dusty uniforms are hanging in YOUR closet?

February 9, 2014 at 4:37 p.m.
unionyes said...

If UAW and VW sign a no strike clause, and the UAW later walks, they are subject to court action for violating the CBA, resulting in hefty fines against the union and its officers. Wildcat strikes are prohibited by law. The odds are not in favor of UAW calling for a wildcat walkout. Besides, strikes are not very effective as a strategy anymore. In a right to work for less state like TN, the chances of getting all workers to walk is highly unlikely, which is another reason not to engage in strikes. A strike where no one, or few walk out, doesn't help the union's bargaining position.

February 9, 2014 at 4:42 p.m.
tifosi said...

It sure didn't stop the UAW from a wildcat strike at the VW plant in Westmoreland. The first foreign automaker in America with the UAW calling the shots. That was a fight waiting to happen.

February 9, 2014 at 4:46 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alps, you're getting sillier by the day. Lack of oxygenation in your little round skull?

February 9, 2014 at 4:49 p.m.
alprova said...

Tifosi wrote: "BULL SHYTE... I can get up and leave anytime I like. It is called FREE ENTERPRISE... here in America. I choose when, where and how much I am willing to work for. Nothing less."

That's not EXACTLY the same thing as exerting any power over an employer, is it? It reads to me as a tactic of defeat.

Hey...I have a bad taste in my mouth due to my personal experience with unions, but that does not mean that I feel as if all unions are bad, nor should the be totally abolished in this nation.

Unions transformed this nation from one where kids used to work alongside grown men, where a worker who was killed was buried and replaced in a matter of minutes, and until the Republicans attained a little power in this nation, we once had a thriving middle-class, where people could work and have a few dollars left over for the little things in life.

There has been a great deal of backtracking as far as the way things used to be, and I absolutely blame the Republican Party for forcing this nation to walk backwards and for the raping of the middle-class, for selling us out to countries offering cheap labor, for looting our retirement savings...for just about everything that has happened that has more people than ever scrounging to make ends meet, while diverting most of this nation's wealth into the pockets of a few at the top.

If anyone disagrees with what I have just typed, they are free to sue me, but I dare anyone to credibly refute me.

February 9, 2014 at 4:49 p.m.
dude_abides said...

tifosi said... "BULL SHYTE... I can get up and leave anytime I like. It is called FREE ENTERPRISE... here in America. I choose when, where and how much I am willing to work for. Nothing less."

Walking out of a job by yourself is leverage? Listen to me or I'll cut my tongue out!

February 9, 2014 at 4:55 p.m.
alprova said...

pt wrote: "Alps, you're getting sillier by the day. Lack of oxygenation in your little round skull?"

Ah...if only the truth were known. You're the one who protects your privacy with an iron fist. My life is an open book.

Oh yeah...you're hiding something alright, and for a very good reason, I have no doubt.

Was war Ihre militärischen Rang, wenn Sie in Nazi-Deutschland gelebt?

February 9, 2014 at 4:55 p.m.
unionyes said...

tie-dye - and you would achieve what by quitting? your employer would fill your job and move on. you, on the other hand be free to find another job. Congratulations. You're free.

Try walking into your boss's office and demanding a raise for all your good work, or else you're going to quit. How long do you think it would take your employer to escort you off the premises? The same with reporting a safety hazard. or demanding better working conditions. Better yet, your boss accuses you of violating company policy on sexual harassment and suspends you for a week. Perhaps you know that your boss wants to hire a cousin or golfing buddy, and uses the suspension as a cover to get rid of you? You know you're innocent, but how do you intend to challenge an unfair disciplinary action? Are you going to go all Mel Gibson, screaming "FREEDOM" while your boss fires you, or will you outsmart him by quitting? Grab yourself a lawyer and sue Big corporation X. I hope you're independently wealthy, because if not, odds are your employer has much deeper pockets and more lawyers than you. And if you think the "right to work" committee is going to defend you, think again, because they're not in the business of defending workers against employers. Quite the opposite- RTW wants the freedom to get rid of any worker for any reason. It's called "employee at will." Unions bring a concept called "just cause" to the table, which requires an employer to justify disciplinary actions against nan employee in front of an arbitrator - a neutral third party.

Yeah, you're free, free to be stupid and continue to advocate against your own interest, free to receive starvation wages, free to kowtow to your boss, and free to look for other work when you quit or get fired, because after all, you're "FREE."

February 9, 2014 at 4:58 p.m.
Maximus said...

Unionyesman....I guess you shine UAW thug Richard Trumpka's mafia Gucci loafers every day considering all the Pro Baby Killer Democrat party talking points you are spewing....Koch Brothers, raping of the middle class, wow, what a loser you are. I bet you live in your Mamas basement and treasure your union and EBT card as your greatest life accomplishment. Tell me this union tool. If your unions are so, so, great why are only 7% of private sector companies unionized in the United States? Why are the so called enlightened, progressive, greatest places to work on earth, enviro sensitive, Obama voting companies like Google, Microsoft, Starbucks, Ben and Jerry's, Whole Foods, Costco, and Amazon non-union. The answer, because they pay well, have great benefits, and have huge legal and HR Departments to protect workers. Union yes, you are either locked up in your Norma Rae union world of the past or a complete and utter idiot. On those two points....the vote is YES! I bet you smoke, own at least two black leather jackets, drink PBR, wear acid washed jeans and bright white Velcro sneakers every day. Oh yea...you say...how you doin? A lot.

February 9, 2014 at 5:04 p.m.
unionyes said...

al - great comment. Unions helped create the middle class. Unions aren't perfect, but they give working people a fighting chance and a voice at work. Unions were the bedrock of our democracy, which is why the GOP/TP wants to get rid of them. Yeah, let's have rich fat cat CEO's speak for us. They have our best interests at heart. Just ask the CEO of AOL.

February 9, 2014 at 5:10 p.m.
Maximus said...

Unionyesman...you are obviously someone that has been unable to make it in the real world. Very sad that as an adult you still need big brother to protect you and guarantee you a job. I'm thinking that you are most likely a postal worker that delivers junk mail every day and proud of it! Stand up America....your tax dollars at work supporting an outdated bankrupt business whether we need it or not! Yes...unions are SMART for America!

February 9, 2014 at 5:11 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo. I got nothing to hide, bookkeeper. How About you? BTW, I don't speak the German. Neither do you.

February 9, 2014 at 5:11 p.m.
Maximus said...

Unions are totally unnecessary and obsolete unless of course you are from up north....uhhhhh wait a minute most workers up north are moving south to find jobs. And they say GM is out of the woods and thriving.....go ahead...pay $50,000 for your new pick up.....I still don't think that will save GM. Another bailout is on the way folks and be sure to look for the union label!

February 9, 2014 at 5:16 p.m.
dude_abides said...

maximum overbite... you seem upset. lmao... unionyes seems to have hit a button that throws your "I don't give a damn, I'm rich and crazy" world out of kilter.

February 9, 2014 at 5:17 p.m.
tifosi said...

unionyes said: Yeah, you're free, free to be stupid and continue to advocate against your own interest, free to receive starvation wages, free to kowtow to your boss, and free to look for other work when you quit or get fired, because after all, you're "FREE."

I have done incredibly well on my own. I have come a long way from washing dishes in a Chinese restaurant for 2 bucks an hour. Minimum wage was $2.35, but I learned to look after myself. I walked out one night at peak time. Left a big damn pile of dirty dishes. No one else was required. My price had just gone up.

February 9, 2014 at 5:19 p.m.
Maximus said...

Only 7% of private sector companies in the U.S. are unionized. 93% of American companies are non-union....hello....Unionyes boy.....you are running out of places to work! You better stick with delivering junk mail for a bankrupt company. Makes good sense, right Mr. Soprano? :)

February 9, 2014 at 5:21 p.m.
unionyes said...

maxipad - do you ever have coherent thoughts or do you always blather like this? Your assumptions are not only way off track, they reveal your immaturity and lack of any real thought. Spewing racist clichés you copied off crazyasbatpooh.com don't count as anything but the ranting of an insecure person.

February 9, 2014 at 5:21 p.m.
Maximus said...

Dude, just having fun exposing the hypocrites and weak kneed panzie liberals. Unions, a relic of the past. They had their place at one time but you could very well say that big guvment work place regulations replaced unions long ago. My God HR and Legal composed mostly of Obama voters run corporate America. If a worker so much as insinuates harassment, hostile workplace, etc.HR and legal are all over it. Unions are so unnecessary and I hope the VW workers know that. If they unionize the price of their cars will go up and make them even more likely to shutter the place and leave because non-union auto makers will kick their butt in the free market.

February 9, 2014 at 5:28 p.m.
tifosi said...

The UAW has their future on the line with this vote. They will say and do anything. If they fail after stacking the deck in their favor at VW, they will be washed up forever.

BTW unionyes, VW knows exactly how I feel. I guess we will be seeing each other tomorrow morning in the cafeteria. At the same UAW table that sat vacant most of last week.

February 9, 2014 at 5:28 p.m.
unionyes said...

tie-dye wow, you walked away from a minimum wage job. How courageous of you.

I hate to deflate your fascist bubbles, but I'm a degreed professional making six figures in a unionized company. I worked my way up the ladder with hard work, education and assistance from my union and employer.

Private sector unionization rates have declined because of union-busting by companies, much of which violated the law. unfortunately, the penalties are so small that companies like Wal-Mart just pay the fine. The GOP and their corporate allies, starting with Reagan, began busting unions in the 1980's.

February 9, 2014 at 5:29 p.m.
Maximus said...

Unionyes..do you acknowledge that only 7% of the U.S. private sector companies/work force is unionized? Racist....come on....unions in the Northeast, especially in Boston are some of the most, thuggish, most racist idiots you will ever know.

Tony Soprano was in "waste management" and held a union card. Lol! Bada Bing!

February 9, 2014 at 5:34 p.m.
tifosi said...

Hey unionyes - we have a similar background... my union was the United States of America. I worked for their army. Made us work long hours in very dangerous conditions for less than minimum wage. My benefits got me a college degree too. Benefits are even better now, thanks to President Ronald Reagan.

They gave me a free trip to Germany and a tank to drive wherever I wanted. Even down the Autobahn at 15 mph. I got to say "Guten tag" to the East Germans on a frequent basis... with a one finger salute. The same one I got for the UAW.

February 9, 2014 at 5:35 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

unionhoffa says "The GOP and their corporate allies, starting with Reagan, began busting unions in the 1980's." And PT says, God bless 'em.

February 9, 2014 at 5:36 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

If the unions gave money to the republicans, you lefty types would be on the complete opposite of this issue. Decrying how unions are evil.

If illegals were known republican voters, you'd want a wall 100 feet high from the Gulf to the Pacific.

Alpo, your "technique" of trying to debunk people sentence by sentence is really infantile playgroundism.

Like a child crying.."I'm right and you're wrong just because I say so"....

55?....Really??.....

February 9, 2014 at 5:36 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^^ five stahs

February 9, 2014 at 5:39 p.m.
Maximus said...

Unionyes....you are just confirming that the UAW is a very simple minded special interest group of the Democrat Party filled with thugs like you and Richard Trumpka. Boy does that guy look, walk, and talk like mafia. Tell me Unionyesman...was the security detail at the embassy in Bengazi card carrying union members?

Yes President Ronald Reagan did kick some union ass! Oh...Unionyesman...are you enjoying that Obamacare exemption? Nice!

February 9, 2014 at 5:40 p.m.
tifosi said...

Nice icon Hoffa.

February 9, 2014 at 5:47 p.m.
facyspacy said...

Youre right Toes.... It is just a pissing contest. Check your "democrat for dummies" book and type someone else's view.

With the debate at hand, i still havent heard one reason that VW should have a union. Im not against unions. My father has been a teamster for 37 years. There are pros and cons. It just doesnt fit here

February 9, 2014 at 5:54 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

facy says "i still havent heard one reason that VW should have a union." Me either, facy

February 9, 2014 at 6 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Unionyes, who's buried in your backyard?

February 9, 2014 at 6:04 p.m.
tifosi said...

A bunch of dead presidents?

February 9, 2014 at 6:08 p.m.
tifosi said...

There you go PT... I'm a Republican. Librul said so... despite what you might have thought all this time.

February 9, 2014 at 6:10 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

There IS no reason for VW to unionize. Maybe it's that they need to do something about the high death rate and deplorable working conditions at the plant.

Or maybe they're just hell bent on turning the south from Bible belt to rust belt.

Do we really need to drag Bobby Kennedy into this?

February 9, 2014 at 6:10 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Only 11% of the American workforce belong to a union. That's a 97 year low.

That's all it is folks. Hungry union cattle in search of fresh grazing grounds.

February 9, 2014 at 6:33 p.m.
fairmon said...

a;prova said...

I didn't go anywhere. It's simply a bore to argue with some people, who will never change their minds, or educate themselves to certain truths and facts.

Darn, how many times have you seen someone in this forum admit their stubbornness. Alprova must be recovering from the anesthesia to acknowledge how stubborn he is so descriptively.

February 9, 2014 at 6:34 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Tiffy: but we know better, no? :)

February 9, 2014 at 6:56 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Why Doesn’t The UAW Want A Secret-Ballot Election At VW? In Short: Because The UAW Knows It Will Lose.

It is a long-standing precedent that unions are legally allowed to lie to workers in order to get their support–and lie they do. Take, for example, Carol Wilson, a Volkswagen employee in Chattanooga who was misled into signing a UAW authorization card.

“When I was approached to sign a card a year and a half ago, it was, ‘Oh, the card just means you want more information.‘”

http://www.redstate.com/2013/11/15/why-doesnt-the-uaw-want-a-secret-ballot-election-at-vw/

February 9, 2014 at 7:02 p.m.
Maximus said...

What the hell is a "teamster" any way? Doesn't the term harken back to the covered wagon days kind of like postal worker?

Bottom line, we southerners are individuals, we don't like mass transit, big government, or going to union meetings. Rest assured, should a union be established at the Chatt VW Plant, you can count on your union dues going directly to the elect Hillary Clinton for Prez campaign fund.

February 9, 2014 at 7:13 p.m.
unionyes said...

tie-dye, maxipad and PoonTang perhaps the three of you should put your heads together. Maybe you'll have enough intellect for a toad.

I served in the Navy. Shooting and being shot at on an up close and personal basis seemed a bit unhealthy, especially during 'Nam. Serving on a modern ship of the line takes brain power, which maybe is why you opted for the army. They gave me a 5" gun mount to operate. I got to fire upon empty hill sides and towed targets. Woke up with the Soviets tailing us most mornings. The military gave me a good grounding and taught me how to smell BS. You guys reek of it.

Some unions back the Repugs. Teamsters, the IAFF, PBA, FOP, to name a few. I think if you check the UAWs PAC contributions, you'll find they've given lots of $ to the GOP, especially in MI.

There was a time when candidates of both parties sought labor's endorsement. Eisenhower famously stated - "Today in America, unions have a secure place in our industrial life. Only a handful of reactionaries harbor the ugly thought of breaking unions and depriving working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice. I have no use for those -- regardless of their political party -- who hold some vain and foolish dream of spinning the clock back to days when organized labor was huddled, almost as a hapless mass. Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice."

He was at the AFL-CIO convention when he made the comment.

Nixon and Reagan sought labor's endorsement.

February 9, 2014 at 7:27 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

TOES, hogwash. There is nothing misleading on a union authorization card that is misleading. The card specifically states that by signing the card you are asking for representation from the union. Anyone who signs anything without reading it cannot claim ignorance. Here, maybe even you can understand this. Please tell us all if this is misleading. http://hr.cch.com/ELD/VW-AuthCards.pdf

It seems the Cons are all in a tizzy since they are used to a company actively fighting unionization by intimidation, misinformation, and firings. While they cower at their 8-5 jobs without any recourse to their destiny or direction in their workplace, they seek to deny persons who wish to have a say for their labor.

February 9, 2014 at 7:27 p.m.
unionyes said...

nice post hotdiggity.

February 9, 2014 at 7:33 p.m.
unionyes said...

PlainTruth said... Tiffy: but we know better, no? :)

Umm, no.

February 9, 2014 at 7:36 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

unionyes, I have been a union member for almost 25 years. Good wages, benefits, and pension. Sad that so many are willing to accept the bondage of an employer who has no obligation to respect them in any manner other than their sweat.

February 9, 2014 at 7:47 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Unionlackey. How did shooting up hillsides and towed targets polish up your BS smelling ability? You get a medal for that?

February 9, 2014 at 7:48 p.m.

Now that Democrats are portraying a job as a trap, or "job lock", then maybe all the VW workers should just quit and live off of the government. Then, maybe, the evil Germans will go back to Germany. Liberals are insane. They want jobs and benefits, but jobs and benefits are now a bad thing.

February 9, 2014 at 7:53 p.m.
unionyes said...

Maximus said... What the hell is a "teamster" any way? Doesn't the term harken back to the covered wagon days kind of like postal worker?

Maybe like, Welder? Shipwright? Millwright? Longshoreman? Those jobs seem to be around. Most of them are union. Call one of them a lazy socialist and see what day you wake up in.

BTW - The Sopranos was a TV show. As in, it was made up, like Hollywood, your resume and your sister on Saturday night.

Bottom line, we southerners are individuals, we don't like mass transit, big government, or going to union meetings. Rest assured, should a union be established at the Chatt VW Plant, you can count on your union dues going directly to the elect Hillary Clinton for Prez campaign fund

Funny, I'm a southerner, I like mass transit. Ever hear of airplanes?

I don't really care for big anything, including corporations and mouths. I do like government that functions efficiently and well. So do Most folks I've met. Chattanoogans must too, because every time I've visited, the street lights work, garbage is picked up, streets are safe, and the sewage system works.

Unions can't spend dues $ on political campaigns. Members can voluntarily donate additional money - exclusive of their union dues - to a Political Action Committee, just like an employee of the Koch brothers. People with a dearth of intellect often confuse union dues with PAC donations. GOPer politicians play on that lack of brain power when talking about union involvement in politics. They count on rubes to not understand the difference while taking $ from union PACs.

But one thing we agree on - you should be very afraid that Hillary will be the 45th president of the United States, because it appears that absent a heart attack, Bill getting caught with his pants down (again), or Jesus 2nd coming and his declaration that he will run for prez - Hillary's going to beat the pants off whomever the GOPers run. Your girlfriend, (assuming you have one) will likely get a bit testy in 2016. I'm betting that she will no longer tolerate your farting in bed and picking your nose while watching TV.

February 9, 2014 at 7:56 p.m.
unionyes said...

31 years for me brother. Proud to live and work union. I don't rat out my brothers and sisters and I work hard.

Work hard for your company and be loyal to your union.

PoonTang - the forward observer called the shot. My job was to pull the trigger. Thank God I never had to fire a shot in anger. The closest I ever got to combat were bar fights with Marines, sailors from other ships and Navies, and stupidly, some Navy Seals (I tried to tell my shipmates who they were mouthing off to, but to no avail). That night hurt baaad!

February 9, 2014 at 8:03 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Waiting on TOESO2800 to tell us what is deceiving about the UAW authorization card that was presented to workers at VW. If it is confusing I will be glad to explain it to you.

http://hr.cch.com/ELD/VW-AuthCards.pdf

February 9, 2014 at 8:05 p.m.
unionyes said...

PoonTang - it was listening to all the BS coming from the Academy ring knockers and petty officers who didn't know what they were talking about most of the time that honed my ability to smell BS. Army pukes really stink.

February 9, 2014 at 8:06 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Not getting the army references.

February 9, 2014 at 8:12 p.m.
jesse said...

what was your NEC union eyes? i was 8404 !

February 9, 2014 at 8:15 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

SUPPORT THE JOB CREATORS

Unions built the middle class back in the 1950s and 60s. Higher wages for Union employees trickled down to workers at other businesses, and more money in the pockets of the working class meant more spending. As you know, ours is a consumer driven economy and more spending stimulates the economy. The rich got richer, the working class did better, and America grew stronger.

We could use more consumers spending right now, but I digress.

Back then a Union man could buy a house, get married, raise a family, and have his wife stay home to raise the kids. He could afford to send those kids to college, too, in the hopes that their lives would be even better. Some of you have no idea of what I’m talking about.

Republicans succeeded in convincing low-income workers that Unions were their enemy. Poor people didn’t think they earned too little, they thought Union workers earned too much. What could possibly be wrong with a living wage?

At that point Union busting was easy. When Reagan took on the Air Traffic Controllers there wasn’t much backlash.

And since the 1980s Union membership has gone down and middle class wages have flat lined. Meanwhile, the rich get richer and American corporations make record profits.

I honestly don’t understand why you working class republicans continue to believe in supply side economics. You believe cutting taxes for the rich and increasing defense spending will balance the federal budget. You believe poor people make too much money. You believe that the millions of children and seniors who rely on Food Stamps and gaming the system.

The GOP has been peddling that Kool-Aid since Reagan and for the life of me I’ll never understand why you goobers keep chugging it down.

February 9, 2014 at 9:11 p.m.
tifosi said...

unionyes - You never expressed your opinion on the drunk and stoned UAW workers at Chrysler after being bailed out by the American tax payer. Does this happen at your union shop? What say ye?

February 9, 2014 at 9:25 p.m.
GameOn said...

VW needs a union so Bob King can live the life of the 1%.

February 9, 2014 at 9:42 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

tifosi- say it ain't so. You mean that workers actually may smoke pot or drink on break, or even at lunch? Wow, who would have thunk. Is that really the best you can do?

Perhaps you should also check into the CEO's and their three martini lunches and a hit of blow.

February 9, 2014 at 10:49 p.m.
soakya said...

your loyalty should go to the person who signs your check

February 9, 2014 at 11:30 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Soakya, workers ask the people that sign their checks to show appreciation of that loyalty by allowing representation of their interests.

February 10, 2014 at 12:50 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

☝☝☝Again, is there evidence that VW is not treating their employees fairly?

February 10, 2014 at 1:22 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

PT-It appears so, since they are open to allowing a union presence in the workplace.

February 10, 2014 at 5:10 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

Funny how conservatives in the Deep South still have the same mentality toward workers as they had prior to the Civil War.

Their mantra has been to keep the worker enslaved to the whim of the master (employer) and deny him any dignity or voice for his labor.

Punish any worker who dares to request equality or fairness for their toil.

I wonder if Deep South, conservative caucasian workers realize they are now the ones being played by big business interests? They are the modern day slaves being told it is evil to expect a voice in their workplace.

February 10, 2014 at 7:09 a.m.
fairmon said...

VW management is receptive to a European style employee works council but have no idea what they are getting into with the U.S. labor laws and the NLRB supported UAW.

February 10, 2014 at 7:56 a.m.
fairmon said...

off subject....George Soros's The Quantum Endowment fund was named the world's most successful hedge fund, after it gained $5.5 billion in 2013.

See Obama and Valerie Jarrett connections to Mr. Soros. He is also the money behind Media Matters and various other liberal groups. He has stated he feels he is anointed to bring change to the world.

February 10, 2014 at 8:04 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

OMG, a business man supporting a Democrat. He might even support those evil unions. Eeek, the sky is falling.

February 10, 2014 at 8:50 a.m.
ibshame said...

If the majority of the VW workers want the UAW they will vote "yes." If they don't then the vote will be "no." It's just that simple. ONLY THE WORKERS AT VW should have a say in this and the politicians and all the rest should just sit back and shut up. If the vote is "yes" then those opposed to unions can leave and find a job elsewhere and if the vote is "no" then those who want the union can do likewise.

VW is only doing what federal law allows them to do and that is give the workers the opportunity to decide for themselves if they want their plant unionized. All the scare tactics, billboards, and whining will not stop the vote. If anything stops the vote at this point it looks like the determining factor will probably be the weather and not what some politicians are saying. There is the possiblility of snow and ice later this week about the time of the voting. Snow and ice on the road will make it almost impossible for some workers to reach the plant. So a lot will depend on who is willing to brave the road conditions to make it to the plant to vote.

In the end unless the vote is postponed due to weather conditions, or some other dire reason everyone will have an answer by Friday. Until then leave the workers alone and let them decide what is in their best interest and not the interest of some politician. After all don't we always brag to others about our democratic process?

February 10, 2014 at 8:51 a.m.
degage said...

Hotdiggity,I guess you know nothing about Soros history. Maybe before you assume he is just a business man you should check him out. He damn near ruined England's monatery system on purpose. Think maybe he is using Obama for the same purpose in the US?

February 10, 2014 at 9:13 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

shamed: Does that go for toon boy too?

February 10, 2014 at 9:16 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

diggity 7:09. Wow. I wonder if the VW employees are aware of their enslavement? Methinks Diggity has seen Norma Rae too many times.

February 10, 2014 at 9:22 a.m.
Maximus said...

Unionyes....please go back to the union shop you came from and never, never enter Red Republican Right To Work State again. No matter what Democrat talking point you throw up on this forum today's union, not Ike's union world, is corrupt and does nothing but encourage mediocrity and victimhood just like the Democrat party. As far as the UAW supporting Republicans ......what a joke. And Unionyes...congratulations on losing the war in Vietnam. I respect your service but your Woodstock/Stoner cry baby generation got your asses kicked by Charlie. You can't win a war when you are high on dope. I find that a LOT of Vietnam era types like Bill Clinton who was a draft dodger by the way are liberals. Well your boy Barry The Union Organizer Obama is trying to trash our Constitution and trash our country and the UAW, what the hell is a Wheelwright, is walking right in step with him. Finally, you being a union man for thirty years and not from TN, I guess you are in town to make signs and if necessary crack a few heads. Be careful, TN is a right to carry state and most of us with permits always pack legal heat. I look for VW Chattanooga to say "NO" to the lard ass obsolete living in the past Richard Trumpka mafia stach union. A company CEO that I used to call on had this attitude about unions..."If one of our 44 plants decides to unionize I will personally fly to that city, close the plant and throw the keys to the plant on top of the roof and drive away. The plant will never be operating again. Go ahead liberals of Chattanooga that hate VW or for that matter any corporation. Unionize the VW plant. It will be shuttered and closed within five years. Good job liberals as you wish, you will be forcing more Americans unto the loser guvment tit. Nice!

February 10, 2014 at 9:27 a.m.
AgentX said...

Wow. How have the employees at VW in Chattanooga managed to survive this long without the UAW.
I was in a union for many years. The union just seems to make sure the poor performing employees get to hang around. That was really not a good thing. There was a day when the union had a place in the industry. However, I believe those days are long gone. The unions get their money from members, so of course they are going to try and unionize more plants. They insert themselves as a "middle-man", when such a position is not needed. We have laws that manufacturers must follow- equal employment opportunity, safety, etc. These can be handled without the union. And of course they want everyone to make more- when their dues are based on a percentage of your pay. Personally, I think the UAW has become a parasite. I think the UAW was a large contributor to the economic downfall of Detroit and the auto manufacturing industry.
In the end, it is truly up to the VW employees.

February 10, 2014 at 9:34 a.m.
Maximus said...

Oh and Unionyes, guys like you are the reason why most everything is made in China today. Now that is something to be proud of and tell your Grandkids of course along with losing the Vietnam War. I-phones would cost $2000 if made in the U.S. by a union goon! Lol!

February 10, 2014 at 9:35 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

degage- actually I am well aware of his history. Are you aware that it is perfectly legal to bet on national currencies, both on the long and short side? Surely you know this happens every day? Just like buying or shorting stocks.

Britan created their own currency problem which allowed savvy investors to bet against their currency. The pound was grossly overvalued and Soros and other invested knew this. When a market, stock, or currency becomes overvalued someone will step in and bet against it. Is that simple enough?

And no, I do not believe your conspiracy theory that he is using Obama for some nefarious purpose.

February 10, 2014 at 9:39 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

PlainTruth - I would guess that VW employees in general are satisfied with their employer. I also think many of them will be even happier if they feel like they have a say in their workplace.

February 10, 2014 at 9:44 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Now we know how Tooney keeps his job.

February 10, 2014 at 9:46 a.m.
Maximus said...

Hotdiggity....you hear that a lot..."have a say in their workplace".....again, like many liberal Democrat phrases...what the hell does that mean? I own my own business and my employees always "have a say" in everything that we do. I have worked for large corporations, was paid very well, had great benefits and always had an open door to the HR and legal departments and always had a say with my boss. I had all of this openness without paying a monthly fee to some uneducated goon that was just out to protect the slackers. Hotdiggity you are just repeating some mindless union/liberal phrase with no idea what it means.

February 10, 2014 at 10:02 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Simple. Soros = good. Koch Bros = bad. That sound about right?

February 10, 2014 at 10:09 a.m.
javelin363 said...

seems like a lot of people and money from other places are here to keep the union out of Chattanooga, why? does "right to work" not mean work union if you choose?

February 10, 2014 at 10:10 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

javelin: seems like a lot of people and money from other places are here to bring the union to Chattanooga, why? does "right to work" not mean work union, or not, if you choose?

February 10, 2014 at 10:49 a.m.
jesse said...

I think tifosi is the only one w/ a dog in this hunt ,everybody else just likes to run their mouth!!

No matter how it turns out it don't peel no hide off my arz!!

February 10, 2014 at 10:55 a.m.
tifosi said...

Finally the anti-UAW folks have a table in the cafeteria and real democracy is at work.

Everyone in this plant has a voice. Management goes out of their way to listen to the floor. That is where the money is made. This place is by far one of the safest places to work I have ever seen. It sure beats a coal mine that United Mine Workers are responsible for making safer.

Production wages here are higher than a similar employee with 3 years experience in Detroit.

The State of Tennessee contributed $500 million towards this facility. Particularly Tennessee money for training people that had never worked in an auto plant. There were literally house wives given jobs and trained at the expense of the Tennessee tax payer. Their salaries, facilities and instructors were paid for by Tennessee tax dollars. Our representatives have an obligation to get involved.

February 10, 2014 at 11:58 a.m.
ibshame said...

No our representatives do not have an OBLIGATION to get involved. VW brought jobs to this area. An area where major manufacturing died a long, long time ago. Now VW is looking to start production of yet another auto in Chattanooga. That means MORE jobs. That is what the legislators are supposed to do, find industries that are willing to come to this state and CREATE JOBS. If management at VW is not afraid of the UAW what does the GOP led side of the legislature have to be afraid of ? THIS IS ALL POLITICAL AND IT IS TIME TO LET THE PEOPLE WHO WORK AT VW MAKE THE DECISION WITHOUT THE THREAT OF LOSING ANYTHING IF THEY DECIDE TO ALLOW THE UAW TO REPRESENT THEM. The only people creating the division are the members of the GOP because they fear the POLITICAL POWER the UAW brings to the table. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Now they are willing to make threats to VW to take away the incentives they gave them to bring JOBS to this area. So, what happens if VW calls their bluff and shuts the plant down taking all those jobs with them? It's time for people to stop allowing mealy mouth politicians with their own agendas to dictate to them. THIS IS ABOUT A WORKPLACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO MAKE THE CHOICES THEY FEEL BEST REPRESENT THEIR WISHES. IT IS NOT ABOUT SOME DUMBa POLITICIANS WHO ARE AFRAID OF LOSING THEIR POLITICAL CLOUT.**

February 10, 2014 at 12:48 p.m.
ibshame said...

""Maximus said... As far as the UAW supporting Republicans ......what a joke. And Unionyes...congratulations on losing the war in Vietnam. I respect your service but your Woodstock/Stoner cry baby generation got your asses kicked by Charlie. You can't win a war when you are high on dope. I find that a LOT of Vietnam era types like Bill Clinton who was a draft dodger by the way are liberals.

You've stated some pretty pathetic BS in the past, most of it as if it comes from someone who is completely deranged but this has to be right up there with the rest of the BS you spew. People like you are amazing. You are a joke and you along with some of the rest of the RWNJ's epitomize the hypocrisy of your stances. More than 50,000 young men lost their lives in Viet Nam. It was a disaster from start to finish and should NEVER have been started in the first place, but UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHOULD ANY SOLDIER WHO PUT HIS LIFE ON THE LINE DURING THAT WAR BE INSULTED BY SOMEONE SUCH AS YOURSELF. THERE WAS A DRAFT IN THOSE DAYS. MOST YOUNG MEN IN THOSE DAYS WEREN'T GIVEN MUCH OF A CHANCE TO SAY WHETHER THEY WENT INTO THE SERVICE OR NOT. SOME LIKE GEORGE W. BUSH HAD POWERFUL FATHERS WHO COULD PULL STRINGS AND PUT THEIR SONS INTO THE NATIONAL GUARD. THE ONLY FLYING BUSH EVER DID WAS OVER THE CORNFIELDS OF ALABAMA. CHICKENHAWK DICK CHENEY GOT FIVE, COUNT'EM FIVE DEFERMENTS, LARDASS RUSH LIMBAUGH CLAIMED HE HAD BOILS ON HIS REAR AND THERE WERE MANY MORE LIKE THEM WHO TOOK WHATEVER SHOT THEY COULD TO STAY OUT OF VIET NAM. SO WHEN YOU POINT TO BILL CLINTON AS BEING A DRAFT DODGER DON'T FORGET THOSE LIKE BUSH, CHENEY, LIMBAUGH AND COUNTLESS OTHERS WHO NEVER SERVED. MOST OF YOUR POSTS ARE THE PATHETIC RANTINGS OF A TRUE OBAMA DERANGED SYNDROME SUFFERER THAT'S WHY THEY AREN'T USUALLY WORTH RESPONDING TO BUT THIS TIME WHEN YOU ATTACK SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY SERVED HIS COUNTRY, YOU HAVE CROSSED THE LINE. BUT THEN WHAT TO EXPECT FROM A TEABAGGER, RWNJ?

. Be careful, TN is a right to carry state and most of us with permits always pack legal heat.

You should be careful making those kind of threats.

February 10, 2014 at 12:58 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Shamed says "The only people creating the division are the members of the GOP because they fear the POLITICAL POWER the UAW brings to the table." *She rants about GOP political involvement, then says they fear the political power of the UAW. Don't really savvy that, Shameful. No politics, right? Bwahahaha

February 10, 2014 at 1:01 p.m.
tifosi said...

I fully expect my representatives to look after my investment. It is their job. There are many manufacturers that do not wish to be infected by the UAW cancer. They are careful where they locate, especially if the UAW is in the neighborhood. This will result ina loss of more jobs than what VW brought to the table.

The UAW built the negative reputation they currently have. For them to suddenly say "We have changed" is a total joke. The UAW brought President Obama to the neighborhood and now they want the politicans to butt out??? The UAW are divisive, political and a scourge on our society today. They did it to themselves.

February 10, 2014 at 1:03 p.m.
javelin363 said...

as a Tennessee and a Hamilton county taxpayer, and one of the hundreds of union workers that helped build that plant, I feel I have a right to get involved too. One of the reasons V W came here was the state and county was willing to shell out bug bucks to build, train, and advertise. And it was a lot more then $500 million. closer to $650 is what was said. It is common knowledge V W wants the union, all of their other plants world wide are union and they have become the 2sd. largest auto maker in the world. but that will not work here? Now we have state elected officials threating to block funds for future expansions if the UAW is voted in, just how stupid are we. Why don't we just tell them to close the doors and take it all to Mexico. Maybe if they would just leave, some of these anti union groups that have come here and spent big bucks to stop the union will open it up and offer $7.50 an hour jobs for the ex V W workers!

February 10, 2014 at 1:17 p.m.
tifosi said...

VW officials are divided. Higher union wages equals a more expensive product. Kiss the SUV good-bye as it goes to Puebla, Mexico.

BTW, we are still repairing the shoddy work performed by contractors. Mud in drain pipes, leaky roof and HVAC that is having to be re-worked. Almost makes me wonder if union folks purposely did it.

February 10, 2014 at 1:31 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

And it's not just wages. Work-rules put In play can be extremely bad for management.

February 10, 2014 at 1:51 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

The first thing unions do is to minimize the workforce so as to give their "select" workers higher pay. That's always been the case.

Pro-union employees are usually people that are afraid to be alone on anything, and need the guiding hand of someone else to speak for and represent them. Alleviating themselves of the pressures of job performance to have job security.

Ever wonder why highway projects take much longer than they need to? Unions are experts at milking jobs for as long as they can.

February 10, 2014 at 1:58 p.m.
javelin363 said...

your cheap labor didn't get the motor plant or Audi plant they went to Mexico. And with employees like you I guess we can kiss the suv line goodbye. BTW you seem to be so antiunion are you going to quit if the UAW is voted in? And as for the work there were nonunion contractors there too, an I'm sure that you would never admit it they may have done some shoddy work

February 10, 2014 at 2 p.m.
ibshame said...

"PlainTruth said... Shamed says "The only people creating the division are the members of the GOP because they fear the POLITICAL POWER the UAW brings to the table." *She rants about GOP political involvement, then says they fear the political power of the UAW. Don't really savvy that, Shameful. No politics, right? Bwahahaha"

She doesn't rant about anything but maybe in your all knowing power you can explain why the only people FROM THE OUTSIDE so far with MAJOR OBJECTIONS TO THE UAW HAVE BEEN FROM THE GOP SIDE OF THE AISLE? As per usual you offer nothing more than your hypocrisy as criticism. The Democrats have asked (as of today, finally) that the workers be left alone to decide for themselves. Why can't the GOP do the same? They are the ones who brought politics into the issue. Now you've got dumbas*s legislators in Nashville making threats to take away the incentives they offered VW in the first place to come here. What sense does that make when VW is considering making another auto here that would create MORE JOBS? Jobs that can boost families' income and allow them REAL OPPORTUNITIES TO ENTER OR STAY IN THE MIDDLE CLASS.

I don't expect someone like you to understand since you don't work anymore at anything but posting your nonsense from the safety and security of your basement. However, there are individuals out there who don't have that kind of security and what VW offers them is a chance to achieve it. I have no idea how the workers will vote and it will not affect me one way or another but THEY ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD DECIDE WITHOUT BEING CAJOLED OR THREATENED OR LIED TO BY LOUSY POLITICIANS.

February 10, 2014 at 2:22 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

And the teachers unions have done a terrific job educating the youth.

Dumb As A Rock: You Will Be Absolutely Amazed At The Things That U.S. High School Students Do Not Know

"For example, according to a survey conducted by the National Geographic Society, only 37 percent of Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 can find Iraq on a map of the world. According to that same survey, 50 percent of Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 can’t even find the state of New York on a map".

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/dumb-as-a-rock-you-will-be-absolutely-amazed-at-the-things-that-u-s-high-school-students-do-not-know

February 10, 2014 at 2:25 p.m.

Meanwhile the same party that controls unions, the Democrat Party, is now pushing the idea, with the help of the liberal media, that not working is a good thing, and that it's Republicans who want people to work. You see the pursuit of happiness now is the right to sit around and do nothing and get taken care of. "job lock", so evil. Bang your gums you libs on here, bang em till they bleed. Your party wants you to not work now. Here that UAW?

February 10, 2014 at 2:27 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

It's an opinion, shamed. Whatever I say will have nothing to do with outcome. I was thinking this is an opinion forum. Must it just be for your opinion, shamed? BYW, I don't have a basement. You Marxist dolt.

February 10, 2014 at 2:28 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Just for sh!ts and giggles.

UAW Members Expose Widespread Corruption

"Padded payrolls for workplace reps are not new in the UAW, the joint programs date back to 1982, and the abandonment of workplace militancy by the International union goes back even farther. Yet there is a widely reported feeling that the UAW has degenerated rapidly in recent years."

http://www.labornotes.org/2001/06/uaw-members-expose-widespread-corruption#sthash.dhq7BVoc.dpuf

"But that'll never happen in Nooga....because....it's different...."

February 10, 2014 at 2:33 p.m.
ibshame said...

For anyone who cares to read:

The NLRA guarantees the right of employees to organize and bargain collectively with their employers, and to engage in other protected concerted activity. Read more:

http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/EmployeeRightsPoster11x17_Final.pdf

February 10, 2014 at 2:36 p.m.
javelin363 said...

Toe, I don't know where you are getting your info (really I do) but as a 40+year member of the IBEW let me tell you unions cannot hire or fire workers, that is the company's job. The union can try to aid a member if unjustly treated. But the company still has the final say. If the UAW is voted in then the VW members can attend meeting have their say about what is right and what needs to be addressed. And in coming years, when everything goes up, instead of employees going to management one at a time looking for raises, your elected ( by you)fellow members will meet with VW to get a new contract. But know this a workers union at your plant is only as good as the people in it. It doesn't not matter what union you are in, the UAW,IBEW,AMA,BAR, or sanitation workers the people at VW will make it what it is if you volt it in.

February 10, 2014 at 2:54 p.m.
ibshame said...

VW is not Wal-Mart. VW's management is not afraid of their workers making a choice.

February 10, 2014 at 2:54 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Workers DO have rights. They have the right to get another job if they don't like the one they have.

Jobs are only a by-product of company wherewithal. A companies #1 concern isn't to guarantee jobs, let alone high wages. If you want better pay, make the company need you more. Simple as that.

February 10, 2014 at 2:54 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

You would think, if the unions were offering a desirable and useful service there would be mass signups of this nation’s workers. However unions only represent about 6.5% of private sector employees. Speaking of the UAW specifically; they lost about 1/3 of their members in an eight year period. That is a drop from 655,000 in 2004 to 382,000 in 2012.

The assets of the UAW have dropped about 25% in a six year period from 2006 to 2012. To make up for this lost they are proposing a 25% increase in membership dues. Presently a member is assessed 2 hours wages per month in dues and this increase will bump that up to 2 1/2 hours which will equal 30 hours per year. Currently the average dues is about $700 per year and the increase will push that to about $1050 per year.

The UAW claims they are not going to strike the VW plant but for what period of time that covers is not widely available. Without the threat of a strike what other actions can the union take to force VW to agree to their demands that would not have been provided without their presence? One of the primary reasons to rebuild the UAW’s asset base is to strengthen their strike fund. If the VW workers selected the union then their dues would support a fund that they could not utilize.

The UAW appears to be a dying organization even if they trick the VW employees into joining. I know I wouldn’t want to invest over a $1000 per year in a loser organization like that.

February 10, 2014 at 3 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

So a union promises not to strike. Uh huh.

February 10, 2014 at 3:09 p.m.
tifosi said...

The UAW earned their shady reputation and now they have to live with it... or die.

The UAW claimed they had enough signed cards. Problem is, they got those signed cards when there were a thousand Aerotek employees here. They were contract employees that are no longer here. Even if they were, they would not be allowed to vote under the rules agreed upon.

My prediction: The UAW will lose the vote this week by a significant margin.

The rules say they cannot have another vote for a year.

The UAW representatives in the VW plant look a lot like the Maytag repairman... very lonely.

February 10, 2014 at 3:19 p.m.
javelin363 said...

I hope you are wrong but all of these big money out side groups coming in spending a ton of money, telling lies and millionaire elected officials telling employees it just can't get any better and them believing it, you maybe right. But ask yourself why are these people spending so much time and money here to defeat the UAW? Do you think for one second they care about you? As soon as the vote is over they are gone! Just like voting for congress, big money buys elections.

February 10, 2014 at 3:51 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

AND JAVELIN….do you for one second think the UAW cares about you? Come on, man!

February 10, 2014 at 3:56 p.m.
PlainTruth said...
February 10, 2014 at 4:05 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Maximus- in regards to what I mean about workers "having "a say in their workplace". I would assume you are aware in a right to work state that you can literally be fired for any reason. Are you aware that people have been fired for supporting unionization? In a union you can be fired for cause which is normally egregious offenses in the workplace. You cannot be fired just because you object to company policies or point out unfair practices. You can negotiate wages, benefits, pensions, etc. and point out safety concerns without fear of reprisal.

As for your business experience? I will withhold judgement regarding that since Alprova has pointed out several inconsistencies in your posting about your business past and present.

In regards to your supposed open door policy to your employees? Hey, why should I doubt that? From your postings here you come across as a reasonable, fair individual as anyone can attest, LOL. (Excuse me while I wipe the dripping sarcasm from my chin.)

February 10, 2014 at 4:08 p.m.
tifosi said...

javelin363 - Long before "big money" entered the picture, I was there when Dr. Jagla stated at an "all-hands meeting" that VW was not talking with the UAW - the whole room errupted in thunderous applause. I don't think the UAW ever had a chance.

February 10, 2014 at 4:11 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Hey Maximus, you said that

"I-phones would cost $2000 if made in the U.S. by a union goon! Lol!"

So why not employ non union labor in the states to build the phones? Oh, that's right, not even non union labor can compete with China's slave labor. So your union bash seems to fall flat, huh?

February 10, 2014 at 4:17 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

diggity: thousands of examples of deadbeats being fired and the Union getting them back on the payroll. Thousands.

February 10, 2014 at 4:31 p.m.
ibshame said...

*A state senator said today that future financial incentives for expanding Volkswagen’s Chattanooga plant may hinge on how workers vote this week on whether to accept the United Auto Workers.

Should workers vote for UAW representation, “I believe any additional incentives from the citizens of the state of Tennessee for expansion or otherwise will have a very tough time passing the Tennessee senate,” said State Sen. Bo Watson, R-Chattanooga*

Tennessee legislators who have made threats about looking at incentives for VW if the workers vote for UAW representation should know they are walking a very tight rope when it comes to the federal law. A case could easily be made that even though they are legislators and not employers they are engaging in the act of coercion. One would think they would remember, VW had other choices but they wanted them here so they could provide jobs for the people in this area. They are the ones who gave the incentives and now they want to "look into future incentives" if VW employees join the UAW.

That's always the problem with Repubs when they are in control of EVERYTHING. They always overstep and it comes back to bite them every time.

*Under the NLRA, it is illegal for your employer to:

• Promise or grant promotions, pay raises, or other benefits to discourage or encourage union support.*

http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/EmployeeRightsPoster11x17_Final.pdf

February 10, 2014 at 4:34 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

TOES said- "The first thing unions do is to minimize the workforce so as to give their "select" workers higher pay. That's always been the case.

Care to provide some proof of that?

You also said- "Pro-union employees are usually people that are afraid to be alone on anything, and need the guiding hand of someone else to speak for and represent them. Alleviating themselves of the pressures of job performance to have job security."

What a joke even coming from you. Pro union workers, especially in the South, are courageous enough to stand up against the "right to work" mindset and fight for a voice in the workplace. They do not accept the status quo that you should not be allowed to negotiate for your labor or working conditions. They realize they are in the minority here in Chattanooga but have a chance for a voice in their future.

Hardly the definition of a follower. More like a trailblazer here in the Deep South.

February 10, 2014 at 4:38 p.m.
javelin363 said...

plain, if VW employees vote the UAW in. the UAW WILL care about them. And it does not surprise me any more when some one says thousands of union workers are dead beats and only work because the union gets their jobs back. That rates right up there with the lie that the unions destroyed the American car industry.

February 10, 2014 at 4:40 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Plain Truth -(I always get a kick out of your screen name, especially with some of your posts).

Anyway, you said "diggity: thousands of examples of deadbeats being fired and the Union getting them back on the payroll. Thousands."

I will await your proof of this. I'm sure it's nothing but the plain truth.

-“Exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence.”

-“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

-Christopher Hitchens

February 10, 2014 at 4:46 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Living Big on the Backs of Grocery Baggers BY: Bill McMorris

Union bigwigs representing some of the nation’s lowest paid workers are holding their annual board meeting at one of Florida’s ritziest resorts just months after increasing membership dues.

The United Food and Commercial Workers union, which represents 1.4 million workers, is holding its annual board meeting at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort, where “Victorian elegance meets modern sophistication.”

Two-hundred-fifty union officials are attending the 11-day conference ending Jan. 25, although not all are staying at the Grand Floridian. Resort rooms start at $488 per night before taxes and can exceed $2,000 if officials opt for a two Bedroom Club Level suite.

When UFCW officials are not meeting to discuss the union’s progress in its battle against Walmart, they can “relax in the sumptuous lobby as the live orchestra plays ragtime, jazz and popular Disney tunes. Bask on the white-sand beach, indulge in a luxurious massage and watch the fireworks light up the sky over Cinderella Castle.”

The meeting comes just months after UFCW leadership decided to raise dues payments at its 2013 convention.

The international union has run up a number of lavish tabs on luxury accommodations in recent years.

The union spent more than $500,000 to host its 2011 board meeting at the Hyatt Regency Coconut Point Resort & Spa in Bonita Springs, FL—home to a “championship golf course and world-class spa”. The union also spent more $155,000 for a conference at Asheville’s Omni Grove Park Inn, a Four Diamond resort.

The UFCW also spent more than $24,000 at the Hammock Beach Resort in Palm Coast, a Forbes Travel Guide Editor’s Pick. The UFCW National Headquarters spent nearly $9,000 at The Palm Restaurant, a world-class steakhouse in Charlotte.

MSNBC host Ed Schultz received $20,000 for appearing at a 2011 conference. He pulled in more than $200,000 for such appearances that year.

Union leadership was careful to avoid mentioning some of its more lavish spending when it informed members of the $36 dues hike in October, focusing its appeal on the union’s political goals.

One source familiar with the retreat said that kind of appeal was easier for a worker to swallow than telling them that their dues were going to pay for a swanky resort.

February 10, 2014 at 5:19 p.m.
tifosi said...

ibshame said: "Tennessee legislators who have made threats about looking at incentives for VW if the workers vote for UAW representation should know they are walking a very tight rope when it comes to the federal law."

Time to catch up ibshame. Several months ago a senior VW official declared that the SUV decision was dependent on Chattanooga getting a Works Council. Anti-union folks took the issue to the NLRB. The NLRB chose not to pursue anything. They would look pretty foolish to pursue the issue now.

Got my "NO UAW" t-shirt today. I make this shirt look gooood. I know what I am wearing in the morning. :)

February 10, 2014 at 5:37 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Diggity, funny you quote a deceased drunkard. Speaks volumes.

February 10, 2014 at 5:51 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Plain Truth, funny you cannot prove your statement that "thousands of examples of deadbeats being fired and the Union getting them back on the payroll. Thousands."

C'mon PT, gimme some of that ole Plain Truth.

February 10, 2014 at 6:37 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

The UAW doesn’t build one car, and the UAW isn’t necessary for any cars to be built. In fact they create no wealth but only exploit the wealth earned by the working classes to pursue the gaining of power and wealth for the leadership’s personal use.

February 10, 2014 at 7:16 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Hey tifosi, even if the workers reject the union you still benefit. You benefit from the previous union workers who had the courage over the decades to allow you to have good wages, health benefits, pensions, workplace safety, etc.

Ain't that grand? Nice of them, huh? And hey, if they do unionize you can continue to ride the coattails of any new benefits they provide you.

February 10, 2014 at 7:27 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Common knowledge, diggity. You deny it has never happened? You seem to be a major suck-up to the thug unions. No?

February 10, 2014 at 7:41 p.m.
tifosi said...

hotdiggity - I only benefited from those brave souls that fought and died for my great nation. They gave me the right to freedom. No others.

February 10, 2014 at 7:50 p.m.
facyspacy said...

Still no reason why a union should be put in at VW... Just what your politics tell you to say

February 10, 2014 at 10:47 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Hey PT, I am a union member. Sorry if that offends you, but I could really care less.

Still waiting for you to explain your lie that "thousands of examples of deadbeats being fired and the Union getting them back on the payroll. Thousands."

February 11, 2014 at 2:59 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

tifosi- If you hold a job you have benefitted from the things I posted above. Sorry, those are the facts. Oh, and workers also fought and died so you could have those benefits.

February 11, 2014 at 3:11 a.m.
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