published Friday, September 5th, 2014

Next Exit

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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TheJackDennis said...

Toon Boy is soooo predictable.

September 5, 2014 at 12:04 a.m.
alprova said...

So are you dickhead.

September 5, 2014 at 12:08 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo says "If you threaten my life or if I feel my life is being threatened, I WILL kill you deader than hell. It makes no matter to me if that is on a city street or at your front door."

Now I ask you folks. Who is the crazy one here?

September 5, 2014 at 12:12 a.m.
alprova said...

From the look of things, workers are going to win the battle to be paid a fair wage for a days worth of work.

The movement to raise the minimum wage is gaining momentum and because the fast food companies are growing worried that the wage protest will start to affect their businesses, they are likely to move on their own to raise wages.

Personally, I feel that $15.00 an hour is a bit too much for a minimum, but $10.00 an hour is doable by all.

For our economy to truly flourish, people are going to have to have more money in their pockets to spend. When Americans have a certain amount of disposable income, they will spend it.

Everyone thrives when this nation's wealth is spread around and is in the pockets of many, rather than to have most of it in a few pockets at the top of the food chain.

If people don't wake up and start spreading that wealth around voluntarily, then I would fully endorse an involuntary redistribution plan to achieve what needs to be done to spread this nations assets.

After all, it was not that many years ago that a few in the know managed to siphon off about 40% of the retirement assets that the majority of the people in this nation had in accounts across the country.

It's amazing that to this day, those responsible for that planned theft have not been brought to justice. I no longer trust the stock markets, no matter how well they are doing today. Because nothing has been done to prevent another reoccurrence of collapse, 2008-2009 could become a rerun at any time.

September 5, 2014 at 12:23 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

^blah blah blah

September 5, 2014 at 12:29 a.m.
alprova said...

Big boy Jackie wrote: "Now I ask you folks. Who is the crazy one here?"

First...see if anyone answers you.

Second...you just keep telling yourself that. If I am indeed crazy, I might not serve as much time for putting you out of your misery, if you force me to do so.

You are one miserable SOB. You spend every single day online 16 hours, 365 days a year, seeing what crap you can stir up with your caustic comments.

Your mistake this time is revealing your real name and being ignorant in setting up your Twitter page. Your second mistake is failing to confess to your own lies and trying to pin them on me. Your third mistake is to continuously harass me publicly for two years without letting up.

No more exchanges in here, at least not from myself. The next time we communicate both ways will be in Knoxville, in person.

September 5, 2014 at 12:37 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Bwahahaha Alpy, you know you don't want to get within a hundred miles of me. You are (as usual) all talk.

September 5, 2014 at 12:39 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said.....It's amazing that to this day, those responsible for that planned theft have not been brought to justice.

al, who were they and what did they do that was illegal? Fines in the billions have been paid for SEC violations by some individuals.

alprova said.... I no longer trust the stock markets, no matter how well they are doing today. Because nothing has been done to prevent another reoccurrence of collapse, 2008-2009 could become a rerun at any time.

alprova...those that stayed in the market have fully recovered plus some. Some stocks are up 2,3,4,5X or more their 2009 lows.

Yes, there will be a market drop or correction but that is why you use stop losses, trailing stops and put options. George Soros is in the process of increasing his ownership of gold and insurance in the form of put options on the markets.

If no one invested in those companies on the stock exchanges where would companies get the money to start and grow a business of any size? Where would the money people put in their 401K go? If not for the markets there would probably not be a 401K or IRA.

You oppose people having control of their social security contribution even if the money is used to buy government guaranteed interest bearing bonds untouchable until age 65 or death when it becomes part of their non taxable estate. You are adamant that a person should draw all contributed or more and that the government not alter anything about the current plan although it is evident with the demographics of the population it cannot stay viable in a decade or so. What would you do, just wait and see what happens and deal with the crisis when it hits? That would be devastating?

September 5, 2014 at 3 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...Personally, I feel that $15.00 an hour is a bit too much for a minimum, but $10.00 an hour is doable by all.

Why $10 instead of $11, $12, $13 or $14? Do you think those employers increasing their current entry level to $10 or more would also increase each level above that to maintain the differential between pay levels? How much would that affect the price of their products and sales?

I wonder how much of the added after tax income would be used to buy imports which only helps those primarily low cost retail workers at those businesses selling imports.

Europe's recent action strengthened the dollar which reduces gas prices, the cost of imports and increases the purchasing power of the dollar. It does reduce exports and those manufacturing those will feel the pain. Travel to any country in the European union just got cheaper, you can buy one Euro for about $1.29 instead of the recent cost of $1.38. It has been years since they were at parity, one/one, or under $1 per Euro.

I may have to agree with your prediction of a robust economy and in spite of D.C. a recovering economy. But, I am getting leery of the stock markets based on valuations. I am trimming back to cash on some stocks held since 2008-2009 and hope I regret doing so. But, one hiccup and the stuff may hit the fan. Traffic on the roads and at retail outlets indicate people are spending money from some source whether reported as income and taxes paid or not is a real who knows?

September 5, 2014 at 3:38 a.m.
patriot1 said...

Alpo (registered republican) says "Personally, I feel that $15.00 an hour is a bit too much for a minimum, but $10.00 an hour is doable by all."

Alpo....Do you know what the poverty threshold for a family of four is in 2014? If you believe fast food workers are primarily heads of household and should be artificially lifted out of poverty, ten bucks per hour won't do it. If the number is going to be pulled out of your backside, why not $20 dollars per hour. That would, assuming forty hours per week, get you to 40K per year.

September 5, 2014 at 6:40 a.m.
GameOn said...

At $15 an hour, very few of the current fast food workers would have a job. A whole new class of workers that could get an order right, would take their position.

September 5, 2014 at 7:07 a.m.
conservative said...

Very good GameOn! And funny as well.

It is not going to happen. This nonsense is like race issues, the design is to get their people stirred up so they will vote.

The Demoncrats need every Socialist/Atheist/minority/Homosexual vote they can get.

September 5, 2014 at 7:24 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

GameOn sez burger chains would close down rather than pay $15/hr. Dream on, a capitalist closing down because he has to sell his discretionary product at a price that nets a profit?? Folks will still buy burgers

September 5, 2014 at 7:51 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Fines in the billions have been paid for SEC violations by some individuals."

How nice. How much of that money was given to the victims who lost upwards of 40%, such as myself? Because I didn't panic, I lost a bunch, but not one penny of that fine money made its way into my accounts.

The U.S. Government won big on that one, didn't they?

"You oppose people having control of their social security contribution even if the money is used to buy government guaranteed interest bearing bonds untouchable until age 65 or death when it becomes part of their non taxable estate."

You always offer those statements as if I was in charge of such crap. It doesn't matter what I am for or opposed to.

I'm not opposed to people doing anything, but if they gamble it and lose it, there should be no crying and whining nor any handouts from the Government, if it is ever allowed.

"You are adamant that a person should draw all contributed or more and that the government not alter anything about the current plan although it is evident with the demographics of the population it cannot stay viable in a decade or so."

Again, you're attributing words to myself I have never typed. You act as if I was not keenly aware that the system is set in such a manner that they are hoping and betting that people will die before they draw a dime.

"What would you do, just wait and see what happens and deal with the crisis when it hits? That would be devastating?"

I already stated what I would do. I would legalize up to the 20 million illegal immigrants in this nation, slap a Social Security card in the mail to them, and tax them like everyone else.

They're already here, working, and ready for citizenship. It's a win-win for everyone.

September 5, 2014 at 7:59 a.m.
Reardon said...

Employment is a contractual arrangement between the employee and the employer.

Why the government feels it has the right to dictate the terms of a volitional contract is beyond me.

And anyway, it is all an arbitrary decision -- $10, $15, $150 -- who can say with certainty what a job is worth beyond what the employer and employee negotiate it to be?

What is beyond Socialists like Alprova (and why Fairmon you continue to engage and argue with him after all these years is beyond me!) is that there are unintended consequences to forceful intervention in free market decisions.

Economics 101 -- an government demand to increase wages has the unintended consequence of (a) having businesses resort to more economical means to control costs (raising prices on customers, eliminating operations, mechanizing the workforce, etc.), and (b), it makes it harder for unskilled workers without skills the opportunity to work an economically-sensible job to prove their value and advance up the career ladder.

Look -- if you want to better your lot in life and you get paid minimum wage, either (a) get another job, or (b) work two jobs and create a plan of action to better your career.

You are NOT my responsibility; you are YOUR responsibility.

Now excuse me while I have to get ready to work, as millions on welfare depend on me.

September 5, 2014 at 8:04 a.m.
alprova said...

Patriot1 wrote: Alpo....Do you know what the poverty threshold for a family of four is in 2014?"**

$23,850

"If you believe fast food workers are primarily heads of household and should be artificially lifted out of poverty, ten bucks per hour won't do it."

I'm going to assume that not man heads of households are working in fast food, but I am aware that there are some that do.

$15.00 an hour? That's double what people are receiving today in most areas. Seems a little too much to start with. But then, I don't spend a dime these days for fast food, so I don't care how much prices are raised to accommodate for it.

"If the number is going to be pulled out of your backside, why not $20 dollars per hour. That would, assuming forty hours per week, get you to 40K per year."

Hey...I'm a Liberal. Your figure sounds great to me. It would be a fantastic way to reallocate some disposable income into the pockets of people most likely to spend it, which will jump start the economy just fine!!

September 5, 2014 at 8:10 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alprova, AKA The Shootist, says he's a liberal. Nothing worse than a deranged Liberal with a gun.

September 5, 2014 at 8:15 a.m.
alprova said...

Reardon wrote: "Employment is a contractual arrangement between the employee and the employer."

In a perfect world, where an employer would be fair, no matter the economic condition, that might be fine. But there are too many Republican cheerleaders who would pay next to nothing if they could get away with it.

"Why the government feels it has the right to dictate the terms of a volitional contract is beyond me."

Se my answer above for the first clue.

"What is beyond Socialists like Alprova..."

I am proud to be a Socialist, not that the connotation means anything to people these days. Perhaps you would be more comfortable living in the 1950's when the word sent people screaming.

"Economics 101 -- an government demand to increase wages has the unintended consequence of (a)"

A given and not hard to understand.

"and (b), it makes it harder for unskilled workers without skills the opportunity to work an economically-sensible job to prove their value and advance up the career ladder."

I know that did not come out of any text book. Higher wages makes it harder to prove their value?

What a load of crap.

"Look -- if you want to better your lot in life and you get paid minimum wage, either (a) get another job, or (b) work two jobs and create a plan of action to better your career."

Thanks, but it's long past time for a wage increase in this nation and it's already underway. Feel free to close any business you have. It will not be missed.

"You are NOT my responsibility; you are YOUR responsibility."

The working people of the world are not your civil slaves either. You want good workers, you're going to have to pay for them. That shouldn't be too hard to understand.

"Now excuse me while I have to get ready to work, as millions on welfare depend on me."

You support millions? All by yourself? You MIGHT pay a penny per some of the dollars you pay in taxes, at best.

I suppose the idea never occurred to you that if wages were to rise above what people get paid to be on welfare, that it might actually stimulate people to get off their duffs and seek one of those better paying jobs.

September 5, 2014 at 8:24 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

^^Alpo, are you paid by the word?

September 5, 2014 at 8:33 a.m.
patriot1 said...

Alpo (the registered republican) sez...he assumes heads of households are not working in fast food

Alpo, the toon is about poverty wages. Why don't you try hitting yourself over the head with your stump...might help your reasoning ability.

September 5, 2014 at 8:35 a.m.
Maximus said...

95% of workers in America make more than minimum wage. Those that make minimum wage are first time wage earners...I.e. teenagers or failures in life. If you are over 25 making minimum wage then you are at fault, lazy, or simply unmotivated wanting to stay on the low income subsidy guvment dole.

The S.E.I.U. will fail in their execution of this community agitation initiative. No one cares, I had lunch at. chick-filet yesterday....no demonstrators...great service....no gays.

September 5, 2014 at 8:35 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Patriot. Look out, you could go on his kill list. The man is lethal. bwahahaha

September 5, 2014 at 8:38 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....Hey...I'm a Liberal. Your figure sounds great to me. It would be a fantastic way to reallocate some disposable income into the pockets of people most likely to spend it, which will jump start the economy just fine!!

Are you sure? It may have the opposite affect since most of those now there would be displaced via automation, more qualified people and other means of containing cost while seeking to get the best return possible for employee compensation cost. I assume you agree that if I pay more I can expect to attract more qualified people from which I would likely get better results?

September 5, 2014 at 8:38 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....I suppose the idea never occurred to you that if wages were to rise above what people get paid to be on welfare, that it might actually stimulate people to get off their duffs and seek one of those better paying jobs.

In your caustic sarcastic way you have hit on something. The minimum wage law should be "the minimum wage will be 1.5X the top welfare a family could be eligible to access". Do you want to venture a guess what that would be if all welfare sources were considered?

September 5, 2014 at 8:45 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova would you agree to including that anyone fired from a job for a good reason such as failure to report on time and accept the responsibility of the job would not be eligible for welfare and would not be eligible for unemployment?

September 5, 2014 at 8:47 a.m.
moon4kat said...

Minimum wage jobs are not just for teenagers entering the workplace, as some like to think. I know of several parents and heads of household who barely make above $7.25 an hour. They have dignity and grit, working long hours and erratic shifts to support a family. That means they have less time with their kids, and are exhausted when they finally do get home. It's not unreasonable to mandate a higher wage, especially when corporations are pulling in record profits and paying million$ a year to executives. Unhinged capitalism is unhealthy for any society. If we left all market decisions to the capitalists, heroin would be sold in grocery stores and young children would be slaving at drudge jobs instead of going to school.

September 5, 2014 at 9 a.m.
caddy said...

LOL: "Toon Boy" needs a crash course on Basic economics and education.

September 5, 2014 at 9:07 a.m.
alprova said...

Patriot1 wrote: "Alpo, the toon is about poverty wages. Why don't you try hitting yourself over the head with your stump...might help your reasoning ability."

No need to be an a$$hole.

September 5, 2014 at 9:08 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Are you sure? It may have the opposite affect since most of those now there would be displaced via automation, more qualified people and other means of containing cost while seeking to get the best return possible for employee compensation cost."

Automation in fast food? It will never happen. If it could have been invented, it would have already been invented.

"I assume you agree that if I pay more I can expect to attract more qualified people from which I would likely get better results?"

I will state categorically that you will have more qualified people to choose from. That's for sure.

September 5, 2014 at 9:12 a.m.
Reardon said...

Al:

Point 1:

Who defines fair?

The employer? He's intrinsically at personal financial risk if his business fails.

The employee? The employee with a work ethic has options if he is unsatisfied with his current position, whether that's working elsewhere or getting another job.

Additionally, supply and demand (read facts, not fiction or subjective concepts like "fair") dictate positive wage increases where the supply of open positions is greater than the jobs, or where high-paying industry lifts the average wage for all (Subway and Walmart workers are paying $15-$20 an hour in North Dakota due to the Fracking Boom).

Bottom line -- You are paid on a combination of the value of your work and what the market will bare, nothing more.

Artificial means to increase the minimum wages causes distortions in the economy, which ends up hurting both small businesses and entry-level workers without any marketable skill-sets.

Point 2:

You mis-read my point -- Employers take financial risks on hiring, especially if things go south.

It is well documented the cost of mis-hires to the business.

My point is this -- increasing wages increases the risk on hiring new people without minimal or no skills. Which in return causes employers to seek alternative ways to operate the business to reduce or eliminate the cost.

Your last point avoids the problem; it is not an employer's responsibility to compete with welfare. It is the welfare recipient's responsibility to motivate themselves at the long-term benefit of work to rise out of welfare.

September 5, 2014 at 9:14 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo the killer tells Patriot1: "No need to be an a$$hole." this from the guy that threatens to murder me. Cue mental illness

September 5, 2014 at 9:15 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "In your caustic sarcastic way you have hit on something."

I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being dead serious.

"The minimum wage law should be "the minimum wage will be 1.5X the top welfare a family could be eligible to access". Do you want to venture a guess what that would be if all welfare sources were considered?"

No, because any figures you might introduce would be falsified.

People on welfare, even those receiving all considered assistance, are not living high on the hog.

September 5, 2014 at 9:16 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Personally, I feel that all of the fast food joints should be shut down.

You guys that think higher wages are going to "close businesses" or "instantly raise prices" need to look no further than Costco vs. Sams Club. End of argument.

September 5, 2014 at 9:29 a.m.
alprova said...

Reardon wrote: "Point 1: Who defines fair? The employer? He's intrinsically at personal financial risk if his business fails."

I can see that argument during the starting up phase of a business establishment. But what about after the business has been operating for five years, profitably all the way?

There are businesses with stiff competition that have slimmer profit margins than others, but fast food is not one with slim margins at all. Profits are quite extensive.

"The employee? The employee with a work ethic has options if he is unsatisfied with his current position, whether that's working elsewhere or getting another job."

Whatever happened to loyalty in this nation. Everyone has this attitude that if you don't like it, leave. &^% that. It's time for loyalty to be restored in this country. Loyalty is what built this nation.

"Bottom line -- You are paid on a combination of the value of your work and what the market will bare, nothing more."

Apparently, minimum wage workers are not valued and they are not paid what the market will bear.

"Artificial means to increase the minimum wages causes distortions in the economy, which ends up hurting both small businesses and entry-level workers without any marketable skill-sets."

Yes...I am aware that this statement is in every Republican handbook. It's horse squeeze topped with B.S.

"Point 2: You mis-read my point -- Employers take financial risks on hiring, especially if things go south."

So? Hiring minimum wage workers is a good way to insure everything goes south.

"My point is this -- increasing wages increases the risk on hiring new people without minimal or no skills. Which in return causes employers to seek alternative ways to operate the business to reduce or eliminate the cost."

If the business is not supporting a living wage, it isn't supporting a stingy owner. Perhaps the owner needs to run the business all by himself.

"Your last point avoids the problem; it is not an employer's responsibility to compete with welfare."

You might not think so, but because of the minimum wage being so low, it is highly possible that welfare represents more overall income.

"It is the welfare recipient's responsibility to motivate themselves at the long-term benefit of work to rise out of welfare."

Not too many people will take a pay cut from an income that requires them to do nothing for it, to one that pays less for having to do who knows what to earn it.

Your hopes are too high for most people on welfare.

September 5, 2014 at 9:34 a.m.

I read that there's been a robot developed that can pump out 360 hamburgers an hour, and all uniform. I say use it.

It's not the employers role to make sure all of somone's needs are taken care of with what they pay a person. The job pays what it's worth.

September 5, 2014 at 10:07 a.m.
alprova said...

The job is worth at least $10.00 an hour. If not, then why are you not there pumping out those burgers?

September 5, 2014 at 10:10 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

Reardon has a strange idea about economy and capitalism, sez..."it is all an arbitrary decision -- $10, $15, $150 -- who can say with certainty what a job is worth beyond what the employer and employee negotiate it to be..."

premise 1: Economic data show the 2014 poverty level for a family of 4 is $23,850, according to Al, my 2012 data is $1,500 lower so he is probably right. The income necessary for minimal standard of living is 200% of that number, roughly $44,700.

premise 2: Everyone deserves to be employed at least at the minimum value necessary to live a minimally acceptable standard of living.

premise 3: No rational employee will negotiate a wage that provides less than the minimally necessary amount to maintain the minimum acceptable standard of living for the capitalist or employee; and an ethical capitalist will never seek to employ a person at a lower wage.

premise 4: A rational capitalist sells his goods at a price that covers the cost of manufacturing and all ancillary expense.

If premise 1 establishes the value of premise 2 is nominally $44,700, and we agree that business should be run in an ethical manner (premise 3) then according to premise 4 the rational capitalist needs to pay the employee a minimum of $44,700 (the least wage to survive at an acceptable living standard) and price goods accordingly.

Now we could pursue this further and note that the majority of people with families who work at a minimally acceptable wage are single parents [the demographic (US Census) statistics support this] we can't argue that mostly both parents should work so the argument of both spouses must work fails

In a conservative Christian home, in fact, the premise of both spouses working outside the home fails on theological grounds. We would argue that only one parent should work and the other be responsible for the primary nurturing of children. (I'm sure all you conservative Christians agree.) Thus the minimum wage should be based on a single parent working, and for a family of 4 that is nominally $21.50/hr for a full 2080 hour work year. (Note: I am ignoring the fact that unethical and/or irrational capitalists are hiring people at less that full time for the sole reason to avoid paying certain taxes or Federally mandated benefits.)

Maxi who makes the outrageous statement that only losers work at minimum wage, and Reardon who claims "(They) are NOT my responsibility..." fails the most basic test of Christianity: to know and practice the two greatest commandments. Both have been reading too much Ayn Rand the exemplar of those persons who place no value on other human beings.

And poor Z-fister as usual has a distorted idea of how things work, here a burger joint. Most joints I've visited have automated ovens to cook (or microwave warm precooked) burgers, the minimum wage workers either take orders, dress the burger to order, run the register, or sweep the floor.

September 5, 2014 at 11:39 a.m.
ibshame said...

In 1968, Dr. Martin Luther King ,Jr came to Memphis, Tennessee to participate in a Protest March with the Sanitation Workers who were asking for a minimum wage, health benefits and the right to have Union Representation. At the time those workers were not paid the minimum, they worked long hours, had no paid vacation, no time off unless it was w/o pay, and last but certainly not least had no health benefits whatsoever.

Dr. King came in March and during his very first speech, he said it was a shame that we live in the richest nation in the world but ask the poor to work for poverty wages. The next day the First March took place. Unfortunately, it turned violent and Dr. King was taken away. He left only to return a couple of weeks later in April to lead another peaceful,non-violent march. Two nights before that second march he gave his now famous " I've Been To The Mountain Top" speech. He was killed the next day.

That was in 1968, the workers were asking for MINIMUM WAGES which at the time would have been $2 an hour. In today's economy that would be about $15 an hour. So over40 years has passed, some progress has been made but the minimum wage has progressed very little in those 40 years. Those Sanitation Workers were men with families. Most of the employees at those restaurants are workers with families. Those restaurants can afford to pay their workers more than $ 10 an hour. Maybe if they did pay their workers a livable wage they would get better workers.

Long before he died Dr. King had focused not only on Civil Rights but also on lifting ALL out of poverty by improving their daily existence through better education and better wages. But what eventually cost him his life is when he decided to speak out against the military complex and it's involvement in the Vietnam War. That is when the verbal attacks and threats against his life were escalated to the point he knew it would just be a matter of time for his life on this earth.

The greed of some in this country knows no bounds. It's considered socialism to demand people be treated as human beings and allowed the opportunity to make a decent living. Yes, progress has been made since Dr. King 's death. We have an African American President and AG but when things happen as they did in Ferguson, one realizes we still have a long way to go and it's a shame.

September 5, 2014 at 11:44 a.m.
conservative said...

I take a quick glance at some of the bloviators and marvel that they think someone is reading their Socialist rants and ramblings.

September 5, 2014 at 12:02 p.m.
ibshame said...

I take a quick glance at the rants of a Moocher like yourself and wonder how much longer the TFP will let you continue to post here w/o paying for the privilege of having a subscription to do so like the rest of us.

September 5, 2014 at 12:20 p.m.
conservative said...

you should be:

You must think that one more lie will not matter.

September 5, 2014 at 1:02 p.m.
alprova said...

My subscription doubled. I'm really paying for access now.

September 5, 2014 at 1:03 p.m.

inq, machines can replace all of them, except sweeping the floors, I think.

September 5, 2014 at 1:26 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

z- in theory perhaps, but it is very difficult to replace the burger order prep if you offer much in the way of options. For normal after hours maintenance you can in fact automate floor sweeping, but for splashes and spills during the day, not likely. Machines do not talk very well or respond to the unexpected (yet).

In Japan they sell beer out of vending machines but the bars are still full of bar tenders, servers and waiters.

September 5, 2014 at 1:55 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Exactly Inquiringmind. You can bank online and complete most transactions through an ATM, but there are still plenty of bank tellers.

September 5, 2014 at 2:27 p.m.

ibshame, thanks for the rambling history listen. LOL Ferguson didn't turn into the race riot you envisioned, did it. We don't know what happened exactly in Ferguson, that has yet to be determined. I'm pretty darn sure that MLK would be disgusted with BO, Holder and the race hustlers like Sharpton. Also, don't compare those Sanitation workers in Memphis in the 1960's who were truly were abused, to fast food workers at McDonald's or BK. That's laughable.

September 5, 2014 at 2:34 p.m.

And, ibshame, you can be darn sure that MLK wouldn't stand for your slamming of black Americans by calling them "uncle tom" just because they don't belong to your diseased party, or hold your ideology. MLK was a Republican.

September 5, 2014 at 2:38 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

Z - MLK might be disgusted with President Obama for even the little aggression he has condoned in a useless foreign war. He also would be upset over how fast folks try to blame cigar stealing as the cause of the problem in Ferguson rather than the historical police antagonism towards African Americans; and for turning a blind eye to the robbers on Wall Street. He probably would think he was in an alternate universe. He also would most likely write a very critical letter to those uncle toms akin to the one he wrote from a Birmingham Jail to the "white preachers" who said they were behind him but he was pushing too hard and should ease up. Perhaps he would even take old Clarence and Tom to the woodshed for a good old talking to.

They don't make them like that anymore.

September 5, 2014 at 3:34 p.m.
Ki said...

zabbydoodoo, most all blacks were Republican prior to the 1960s. But that had more to do with slavery on his death march under Lincoln and the civil war. But although party names remain the same people change along with party affiliation. It was under JFK when black leaders approached him and his administration on how just miserable remain specifically for southern blacks, but blacks elsewhere too across America and JFK's willingness to look and address the situation that blacks overwhelmingly started to leave the republican party for the Democratic one. Before JFK their options were limited. Remember it was either JFK or his brother, Robert Kennedy , who when approached by black and white leaders on the plight of southern blacks said something to the effect, "I thought the negroes in the south were happy (or maybe he said "content") with their situation down there" Even the then president of the U.S. was even aware of how dangerous and uncertain life still was for blacks in the south near a century after the civil war ended.

Johnson, who became president after Lincoln's assassination, was a southern sympathizer who went about undoing everything Lincoln tried to accomplish. Republicans abandoned reconstruction and pocketed most of the cash for themselves.

Up until tgd mid 20th century, many southern whites were still being misled to believe that thge north had lost the war, so anyone can onky guess what many southern blacks, many who were vasucally still illiterated, were forced to believe.

Party name and affiliation doesn't necessarily dictates all in that part's belief system. There were Democrats against slavery, Jim Crow, segregation and there were Republicans in favor of them or just didn't want to be bothered with the issue at all.

September 5, 2014 at 4:05 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Is there a point to all that Kizun?

September 5, 2014 at 4:30 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo. No murder threats today?

September 5, 2014 at 4:44 p.m.
Reardon said...

In response to Al:

"I can see that argument during the starting up phase of a business establishment. But what about after the business has been operating for five years, profitably all the way?

There are businesses with stiff competition that have slimmer profit margins than others, but fast food is not one with slim margins at all. Profits are quite extensive."

That's what you don't understand; profits are the net result of the risk taken by the investor -- the profits are HIS proceeds for putting his assets and personal name on the line.

Now what HE decides to do to pay his employees is HIS business. Not yours.

Remember, his employees can walk away with zero risk and financial responsibility from problems the company is having anytime.

"Whatever happened to loyalty in this nation. Everyone has this attitude that if you don't like it, leave. &^% that. It's time for loyalty to be restored in this country. Loyalty is what built this nation."

With a personal sales force of two dozen in a highly-competitive market, I personally agree with you regarding loyalty, and agree that I run my business with the idea of paying a premium for quality.

...But the difference between me and you is that I will not FORCE another to pay a premium if their business does not allow for it, as that is not my call to make (nor yours).

"Apparently, minimum wage workers are not valued and they are not paid what the market will bear."

Bad reading comprehension again -- An employee's economic value is equal to the wage he is paid. If the wage demand is greater than the economic limit to that job, then the job is eliminated, outsourced, or mechanized.

Sorry facts suck, but they are what they are.

"Yes...I am aware that this statement is in every Republican handbook. It's horse squeeze topped with B.S."

No, it's Economics 101. To demonstrate this fact, I would like you to tell me what the effects of a $50 minimum wage would be. Obviously it is an absurd notion, but that's not the point.

All businesses have costs to sell goods, and an increase in any of those costs will effect in some way how profitably the business operates.

"Not too many people will take a pay cut from an income that requires them to do nothing for it, to one that pays less for having to do who knows what to earn it.

Your hopes are too high for most people on welfare."

Right. But it is not the burden of the business community to provide a higher wage to folks who have the capability but lack the motivation to provide for themselves -- that's my point.

September 5, 2014 at 5:10 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

KI

You say, "Johnson, who became president after Lincoln's assassination, was a southern sympathizer who went about undoing everything Lincoln tried to accomplish. " I disagree with your assessment and think it does not really do justice to either man.

Lincoln was not antislavery until late in the game; he though also knew the way to win the war was to make fighting the war too painful for all. He made the Northern public feel the pain of their commitment to war through the deaths of their husbands and sons.

There is no doubt LBJ was a child of Texas politics, and even his efforts on racial matters and poverty reflected a desire to build a national consensus behind his reelection; but his efforts for the Civil Rights Act and the War of Poverty were driven by the heart.

His famous remark on signing the Civil Rights Act more or less like this: "this will kill the democratic Party in the South" acknowledged the fact that the Southern Democratic party remained racist, hence the modern day Southern Reds who are just refried beans of the old Southern democrats whom we incessantly read in these electronic comments.

His noble war on Poverty is also a telling example (after the fact) of how hard it is to help without hurting.

If we want to hang something negative around LBJ's neck, it is his refusal to end the war in Viet Nam. What more infamous comment than, "We just have to hunker down and get through it." He had too much of the old school mindset in him, unfortunately Viet Nam was not a war of existential importance to the USA as the Civil War was. So too Iraq, Afghanistan and ISIL, something a lot of Southern Reds and sabre-rattlers do not appreciate (yet).

September 5, 2014 at 5:34 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

Ole Reardon sez, "Now what HE decides to do to pay his employees is HIS business. Not yours." Boy o boy is he wrong. We have a long history of public law, e.g., the minimum wage law, saying exactly the opposite: what a company pays a worker IS a matter of public policy not HIS company.

Again, if ole Reardon can't run his business successfully in a competitive market that pays a living wage, he has a bad business model that is rivaled only by his poor education in economics. He isn't even a good capitalist. He fails the basic test, treat your employees fairly and you get high productivity, treat them harshly you get the bank-vault problem earlier taught in Harvard U case study.

September 5, 2014 at 5:43 p.m.
ibshame said...

Z fister AKA the blood of Asterix you simpleton there is NOTHING you can tell me about Dr.King and what he stood for, NOTHING!!!! As the saying goes you probably weren't even a speck in your daddy's eye during that period and it's for damn sure other than what you read in some history book, you know NOTHING of the things Dr. King struggled and died for to make life better in this country for ALL.

As for what he would think of Barack Obama what makes you think you are even qualified to make such a statement? You sat at your mama's computer one day and took a break from one of your video games to google The names of Black Conservatives. You managed to get the names of Sowell, Williams, Carson and Thomas. You thought you were on to something no one else knew and you were going to come back here and throw their names out like you really knew who you were talking about. It's just too bad you never bothered to do more actual RESEARCH into why they are not respected and looked to for leadership in the Black Community., why there is a DISCONNECT between them and the Black Community. So you come back here with your fake outrage when I refer to them as uncle toms because that is what they are. You ARE NOT connected to the Black Community and just because you google some names does not give you that connection. Of course neither are any of them.

Tavis Smiley and Dr. Cornel West are two of President Obama's harshest critics. However, their criticism is based on their belief he has not done enough as President to lift people out of poverty and to address the still existing racial and economic disparities in this country, Unlike Sowell, Williams, Carson and Thomas who feel he has done too much and accuse him of being a Socialist. So, even in the Black Community there is disagreement on the impact of Barack Obama's Presidency. As for Dr. King being a Republican that is a LIE started by Republicans. There has NEVER been any evidence to prove that.

As for what I wanted to see happen in Ferguson, you are a pathetic liar when you claim I wanted them to riot. What happened in Ferguson was NOT a riot. Yes, there was looting and stealing but it was not a RIOT. Of course ignoramuses like you thought it was a riot because those a$$holes in the Ferguson Police Dept brought out all of their military equipment but it was no RIOT. Evidently the Governor didn't even understand or he would never have had to waste money bringing in the National Guard. What I want to see happen in Ferguson and anywhere else where the police have stepped over the line by becoming the criminal instead of protecting people from criminals is JUSTICE for their victims. NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS.

Now get back to your video games before your Mama tells you to cut it off for the night.

September 5, 2014 at 6:37 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....No, because any figures you might introduce would be falsified.

People on welfare, even those receiving all considered assistance, are not living high on the hog.

I didn't suggest a figure I would be interested in what you think it would be and why?

No but some are receiving enough they have little to no incentive to seek even a good paying job.

September 5, 2014 at 7:01 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Ibeshamed is now the go to guy for all things about Dr. King, rioting, and Zab's progeny. Amazing.

September 5, 2014 at 7:12 p.m.

ibshame..explain "the blood of asterix? What connection is there to my daughter? How does the name zableedofisterix, a made up word, which is my daughter's interpretation of a name a character had on the cartoon show rugrats, or what she thought it was, have to do with "the blood of asterix" a video game you play? You're just about the dumbest person on earth. Only you know about that game.

You think you're clever, but your just an a-hole with an extremely dumb theory that makes no sense. One thing is a fact, though, you're a racist. You think you decide who a real black is and who is not. How offensive.

You're a pompous twit who has no connection with the black community. You think you do because you grew up in the 1960's..wooo sacred.

MLK would find your characterization of black Americans who don't belong to the Democrat Party or share your ideology, as "uncle toms" as racist. MLK was not a liberal twit like you.

BOO..HOO..HOOO...what happened in Ferguson is this, a policeman, who is probably the worst shot in history, reacted badly, very badly...no one knows for sure what Brown did, but he didn't deserve to get shot 8 times..there was looting, rioting, the flames were fanned by the liberal media and jackasses like Sharpton. There's a video of Brown robbing a store and bullying the store workers. There are various accounts by different witnesses. Now they're trying to figure it out. But there's no evidence that Brown was shot just because he was black, and the cop hates blacks.

September 5, 2014 at 7:37 p.m.
ibshame said...

Jack Dennis is now the go to guy for what not to admit to on an open forum on the Internet because someone just might think he 's being serious instead of just plain STUPID!! Now go find you another nut job to cheer lead for, they appreciate your commentary.

September 5, 2014 at 7:38 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....Automation in fast food? It will never happen. If it could have been invented, it would have already been invented.

You sound like the fellow that said there is no longer a use for a patent office, everything that can be has been invented. Some are already having the customer enter their order on a touch screen and pay an electronic teller. Food preparation technology is now available that reduces the need for manpower and reduces prep time. Increasing the cost of manpower will justify the capital investment for the technology with a good ROI. The up side is a reduced need for people but those needed will possess much more technical skills and be worth more compensation. Those that can and do will do well. Those that could but want will not do well and you can take care of those that would but can't and simply don't have the smarts to do any kind of critical work.

There has to be some consideration of the employees knowledge, skill, ability and value to the business. Simply showing up for the employer to train, which is a real challenge in many cases, is not justification for a rate of pay beyond what attracts those applying with an employer. Again "do you want fries or a drink with that?" is not high tech stuff.

Would you have ever guessed a car wash could be operated by one or two people and where a good car wash can be obtained at a lower price at a volume well beyond anything imagined a few year ago?

September 5, 2014 at 7:38 p.m.
Ki said...

inquiring, gawd! Man! Are you nuts or something?! I wasn't referring to LBJ (Lyndon Baines Johnson). Do you even know who became president after Lincoln was assassinated? Andrew Johnson! --1865-1869/Andrew Johnson who was vice president to Lincoln! Lyndon Johnson wasn't even an untouched egg then and wouldn't become president until over a century later.

It's documented historical fact that Andrew Johnson was a southern sympathizer who went about undoing everything Lincoln attempted to accomplish before he was assassinated. Even taking away land from former slaves Lincoln had allotted them.

It doesn't matter at what point ending slavery became a focal point of the war. The fact remains that it did, and whatever issue all wars start out being based upon, by the middle or end of war all original reasons are lost anyway.

Lincoln still set into motion that which would lead to the end of slavery as it was known in america, and specifically within the southern states. That doesn't say or imply that other means, such as prisons and jails, would not be created to maintain a certain hold on slavery and some form of bondage. If I'd known anyone wasn't aware of who became president after Lincoln's assassination or who was vice president to Lincoln still d have done a better job on giving a small history lesson. I sometimes take for granted in thinking most are better informed on historical matters than they actually are.

September 5, 2014 at 7:39 p.m.
Ki said...

da' jackzun said: is there a point to all this kizun?

You're askin' the wrong person. zabbydoodoo is the one who brought up that same old run-of-the-mill song about MLK being a republican . When most everyone's aware today's republican party in no way shape or form even remotely resemble the same republic can of that period. And certainly doesn't come close to resembling the party of lincoln's time in office. Today's republican party would have been more in line with John Wilkes Boothe and others who hated Lincoln during that period in history.

September 5, 2014 at 7:48 p.m.
ibshame said...

Z Fister aka the blood of Asterix, you dumba$$ I have no intention of trying to prove to you what I have already posted and proven with the words all anyone has to do is google. Like I said before if this is a character of your daughter's then you should be paying more attention to what she 's watching but we both know that's not the case no matter how much you protest.

I wrote you off the day you wrote on this forum Obamacare was worse than the Vietnam War and from that day on you will NEVER have to worry about anyone thinking you are anymore than you are which is a low information ignoramus at best to at worse just another dumbass with a computer

Here's a newsflash for you: YOU AREN'T CONNECTED TO THE BLACK COMMUNITY and YOU NEVER WILL BE so stick to the minimal bullsh!t you can comprehend from what you hear on the Drudge Report because it's as useless as all of your commentary is worthless.

It doesn't matter about the time frame in which I grew up what matters is the fact I don't have to make up bullsh!t to try and impress someone. I don't have to pretend to be something I'm not. I don't have to change my name a dozen times to post on this forum because I've been stupid enough to admit to being a criminal. In other words I don't have to do anything to impress a chump like you regardless of the time frame in which I grew up. Too bad the same cannot be said of a dumba$$ like yourself and some other nut jobs.

September 5, 2014 at 8:04 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Shame, perhaps you should direct some of that ire toward the guy wanting to commit murder. Or is that acceptable behavior to you?

September 5, 2014 at 8:20 p.m.
GameOn said...

Inquiringmind said, GameOn sez burger chains would close down rather than pay $15/hr. Dream on, a capitalist closing down because he has to sell his discretionary product at a price that nets a profit?? Folks will still buy burgers.

GameOn said: At $15 an hour, very few of the current fast food workers would have a job. A whole new class of workers, that could get an order right, would take their position.

I never said fast food stores would close down. If fast food jobs start paying $15 an hour, fast food jobs are going to become attractive to workers making $10 to $14 an hour in other jobs now. People with better skills will take the jobs from the people currently working them.

September 5, 2014 at 8:28 p.m.
fairmon said...

Reardon....did you see the premises including

o premise 2: Everyone deserves to be employed at least at the minimum value necessary to live a minimally acceptable standard of living.

Not one word in any premise about what level of knowledge, skill and ability those seeking employment should possess to justify the proposed rate of pay.

Reardon, you would have more success explaining to a reasonably sharp third grader how business systems and capitalism work. It is easy for those not accountable for the success and profitability of a business to say what businesses should do. I am betting mindless works in some non-profit government position such as teaching or some similar over paid tax payer funded position.

September 5, 2014 at 9:07 p.m.

ibshame, you literal dumb ass...you've proven nothing...are you on drugs, stupid? google zableedofisterix and see what you get.. you get links to this forum. She got the name from watching rugrats,dumbass. There was a fish-like alien character on an episode of rugrats, stupid. My daughter pronounced his name zableedofisterix..and that's how I spelled it based on what she said. You dumb piece of $hit. She watched exactly what a small kid should watch. I feel sorry for your kids, if you have any, being raised by a leftist prick like you.

Only a warped jackass like you would link a goofy cartoon character name with 'the blood of asterix" LOL

one thing is for sure, you are an out and out racist. You have nooooooooo connection with the black community..you have nnooooooo idea what it's like to be black. You're a pig who thinks you have the right to defame and slur black Americans who don't go along with your stale, old lefty view of what a black should be and believe in. You're a stupid, white liberal who thinks this is 1968. No matter how you protest, dick, you're a proven racist. MLK would lay in to a white liberal dick like you for calling black Americans "uncle tom" just because they don't belong to your party.

September 5, 2014 at 9:59 p.m.
alprova said...

Reardon wrote: "That's what you don't understand; profits are the net result of the risk taken by the investor -- the profits are HIS proceeds for putting his assets and personal name on the line."

You're not blowing up my skirt at all. Referring to fast food, an owner is nothing without a staff of workers. Those workers can make or break a business. If they are valued, everyone thrives. If they are not valued, people's food gets spit into, and no one does more than they have to, in order to keep their jobs.

"Now what HE decides to do to pay his employees is HIS business. Not yours."

You're dead wrong about that.

I avoid fast food specifically because I know what those people are paid. They don't care a bit about those jobs, and ultimately the customers. I don't like eating spit, so I don't patronize fast food joints.

"Remember, his employees can walk away with zero risk and financial responsibility from problems the company is having anytime."

That applies to anyone who is not the owner of a business or company. The only difference on the table is what a person is earning for their time and dedication to the job.

"With a personal sales force of two dozen in a highly-competitive market, I personally agree with you regarding loyalty, and agree that I run my business with the idea of paying a premium for quality."

Why? Couldn't minimum wage workers represent your business just as well and be just as content to work for you?

"...But the difference between me and you is that I will not FORCE another to pay a premium if their business does not allow for it, as that is not my call to make (nor yours)."

We're talking about fast food. How many fast food places go out of business due to a lack of business? Only those poorly run have bit the dust.

"Bad reading comprehension again -- An employee's economic value is equal to the wage he is paid. If the wage demand is greater than the economic limit to that job, then the job is eliminated, outsourced, or mechanized."

You're not reading very well yourself. Minimum wage job earners are not valued, period.

"No, it's Economics 101. To demonstrate this fact, I would like you to tell me what the effects of a $50 minimum wage would be. Obviously it is an absurd notion, but that's not the point."

Of course it is the point. Why not be absurd when obscuring reality?

"But it is not the burden of the business community to provide a higher wage to folks who have the capability but lack the motivation to provide for themselves -- that's my point."

In your perfect world, everyone would have the self-respect to go nowhere near a minimum age job. They would think too highly of themselves to be valued so low for the physical labor required to do the job.

September 5, 2014 at 10 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "[Who] Would you have ever guessed a car wash could be operated by one or two people and where a good car wash can be obtained at a lower price at a volume well beyond anything imagined a few year ago?"

Do you really think a good car wash can be obtained with technology? I point you to the full service car wash in Ft. Oglethorpe, Ga. on Battlefield Parkway.

Technology can wash the outside a vehicle adequately, but technology does nothing for the inside of a vehicle. No one has invented a window washer, an automatic vacuum cleaner, or a robot that will wipe down leather.

Nope...when I want my vehicle cleaned right, inside and out, I head to the place where they have fifty guys working their butts off to do it right, every time. And I'm glad to pay the premium price for the good work.

All over town, those technologically advanced car washes are shuttered, or haven't you been paying attention?

September 5, 2014 at 10:12 p.m.

ibshame...google Soblito Festeriks, it's the rugrats episode: Visitors from outer space. It's a fish-like character. I spelled it zableedofisterix based on how my daughter pronounced it. LOL gosh are you pathetic.

September 5, 2014 at 10:18 p.m.

"the blood of asterix" LOL moron LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

September 5, 2014 at 10:19 p.m.

I own your ass, ibshame. ubshamed! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

September 5, 2014 at 10:36 p.m.

ibshame, did you read about that gang of black teens who attacked a white couple in springfield, MO? Now that's a racist attack, unlike what happened in Ferguson.

September 5, 2014 at 11:38 p.m.
ibshame said...

Z fister aka the blood of Asterix you don't own your own a$$ let alone mine. You are the one who evidently still believes someone is allowed to own someone. Typical racist if ever there was one. Years ago when I first came to this forum I never bothered to fill out anything on my profile. I dont think it's important to know the identity of people who want to post on a public forum unless they are making death threats to others or to officials of government. Beyond that people have a right to express their viewpoints whether they are dumba$$es like yourself or stupid like some others on here. So, that was one of the reasons I did not complete a profile but there was also another reason.

I am a product of the South and I have had to deal with the IGNORANT of the South like yourself and others practically all my life. There is one lesson I learned in life a looong time ago when dealing with a dumba$$ like yourself. If I express a viewpoint that may be almost identical to what some other person is saying, my viewpoint is going to be dismissed as that of an ANGRY BLACK out to get "whitey" or make "whitey" pay for slavery. I 've seen it done hundreds of times. Right here on this very forum you attempted to portray President Obama as some sort of angry Black. Another dumba$$ went so far as to try to claim to be Black so he could call the President a welfare pimp and label him in so many other racist ways. So when a truly dumba$$ like you says I'm a White Liberal it makes me laugh at you. You without knowing it proved my point. For some strange reason it seems to be so hard for you to understand I am not White,. I was BORN into the Black Community and unlike the uncle toms, Sowell, Williams, Thomas and Carson I am proud of it.

Like I said earlier I don't have to apologize to you for the time frame in which I was born,nor do I have to apologize for not being White. I am, what I am and nothing a racist like you writes will ever change that. I have called you out because your kind of ignorance should not go unnoticed. You don't know me and you never will but your kind I've known all my life.

Now go ask your mama if she will buy you a Black action figure because that is as close as you will ever come to owning a Black person's ass.

September 6, 2014 at 12:04 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

You got a ton of anger in ye, Shamed.

September 6, 2014 at 12:11 a.m.
ibshame said...

And as usual the cheerleader for the nutjobs just proved my point. You are the most angry person on here and the really sad part is that the only person you should really be angry with is yourself for being so stupid as to admit to a crime in a public forum on the Internet. You have blamed others and gotten angry at others for your own stupidity. So if you want to see anger go look in the mirror.

September 6, 2014 at 12:51 a.m.
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