"What a teacher, adminstrator or coach cannot do is put a student in a coercive position where they have to pray. I'm sure if I said a rosary or a prayer in class some students would do it out of conviction, but some would do it because they were afraid I'd give them a bad grade. That is coercion, that is forcing religion down people's throats, and that is wrong and against the will of God. God wants people to come to Him through their own path, not because the coach or teacher is telling them they have to."
You mean coercion like teachers voicing their political opinions and students feeling the need to agree so as not to get a bad grade?
Or maybe the coercion of students having to agree with Global Warming theories so as not to get on the bad side of a teacher?
Students agreeing with Evolution theories for good grades?
Students accepting homosexuality so as not to have the teacher penalize their grades?
Or maybe the kind of "coercion" from teachers that causes students to try and CONCEAL their religious beliefs to please the teacher?
All kinds of "coercion" exists, but the one we need to worry about involves a banner at a high school football game?
"If a group of Muslim girls made a sign that said, "Allah is great and will help you beat the other guys," I wonder how that would be received?"
It would be received as quite ridiculous -- at a ball game in Tennessee being viewed by Christians.
On the other hand, were that sign being displayed at a ball game with a predominant Muslim attendance, nothing at all would have been said about. Especially from any Christians that happened to be among the majority Muslim attendance. And that's because Christians are not only tolerant, but generally possess common sense and reason -- not childishly believing that someone was trying to force their religion down their throat and feeling as if they needed to leap from the stands and call 911!
"(Constitutional Law classes are available at any community college!)"
I don't know if I would recommend that. Many of those folks' constitutional knowledge is about on par with many posters on message boards: Repeating what someone else has told them.
We have many folks among us who just like to pretend. As long as they can pretend that there's an imaginary enemy or threat, they also get to pretend that they're the big heroes and are going to save us all.
We have a growing number of folks in this country who really are violent and would love nothing more than to force us to succumb to their religious beliefs. But none of the pretended heroes ever seem to have time to stand up to them.
So rather than standing-up to real threats, they prefer to pretend that a bunch of high school cheerleaders and banners with religious statements are the second-coming of Hitler. And so the pretended heroes are then dutifully bound to save us all from cheerleaders and innocent Christian folks watching a ball game and meaning no one any harm.
Why without these brave and courageous pretended heroes, our entire nation would be taken over by pom-poms! We owe them so much!
cool68mommy...How do you folks manufacture this stuff?
I hardly think that anyone at that game with the banners, was "spewing venom" or "hating" anyone or anything of the sort. Nope, they were just good decent folks out at a high school football game where a bunch of high school cheerleaders had made banners with what they thought to be positive messages. And lo and behold some lone individual has to complain about some irrelevant banner as if it were the second-coming of the Spanish Inquisition.
And of course some folks can't understand why in the world there would be outrage because those cheerleaders are now prohibited from displaying their banners. Can't understand at all. Well, let's think about why they might be outraged.
Think it might have something to do with all the filth, degradation and indecency that school kids and their parents have to tolerate these days, yet some folks act as if the sky is falling and the Republic is in danger of collapse because some cheerleaders painted a banner that had religious quotes on it -- of which the vast majority of people probably paid no attention to?
Think it might have something to do with the United States throwing tons of money at an education system that has now gotten us down around nr. 25 in world rankings -- yet a banner on a football field is a big concern?
Think it might be that we have schools with common drug problems and the kids having sex IN the school -- yet any reference to a religious saying on a banner needs to be struck down and halted post haste?
Could it be that our schools are rapidly becoming nothing but cesspools, but that we are perfectly fine with that as long as they are religion-free cesspools?
You need to be able to look at the big picture of things and stop acting as if there's a bunch of religious zealots foaming at the mouth for a pogram...that is so "scary" to you!
"It is not about a "attack on God" it is a attack on the outrageous stunts that Christians tend to pull knowing all along that their behavior is unacceptable to a portion of the population."
"thedave"...Maybe I misunderstood the story and didn't understand that a bunch of Christian girls burst onto a football field in a Jewish community in New York and demanded the conversion of Jews to Christianity with their banners.
But if the story was as I understood it, that cheerleaders from a high school in Tennessess where roughly %99.99 percent are Christians, simply made a banner that contained religious quotes -- exactly where is the "portion of the population" that was to be offended by any of this? Apparently no one was offended other than one person that complained about it. And I do pray for him and certainly hope that he has recovered from such a traumatic event brought on by these little high school girls -- trying to force their religion down his throat!
If it weren't for some people who are so confused, I might have nothing to laugh about.
"As representatives of the state the constitution does give them the right to espouse or promote any religion over any other."
Where in the Constitution is there any such thing? There's absolutely nothing in the Constitution whatsover, that prohibits representatives of the state from espousing or promoting religion. The Congress shall not make any LAWS respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. But a state representative can "espouse" or "promote" whatever they choose.
Of course, those banners were no more "promoting" religion any more than a banner with an Einstein quote on it would be "promoting" Einstein.
In all these many years, I have never been able to figure out why those who simply do not want religious references in public can't just come out and say that. But rather they choose to jump through all these hoops, twists and convolutions of the Constitution to act is if the Founders were trying to protect us all from the likes of teenage girls making banners with religious quotes on them.
mrstar...The 14th Amendment did not extend the Bill of Rights to the states, a Supreme Court ruling declared it so. Of course the Supreme Court could rule that stop means yield and we may be forced to comply, but it doesn't make their ruling correct.
But even if we accept the notion that the BOR has been extended to the states, what would that mean? Well, it would logically mean that a state's congress: Shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
And so not only would the Federal Government not be able to PROHIBIT those cheerleaders from having their banners -- but neither could the state, right?
The First Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with all the things that have been read into it. The FA doesn't mean there can be no religion, religious symbols, monuments, etc...in a public place. The FA doesn't mean that if one religion is honored in some fashion or another, that all religions then must be honored. The FA's purpose was not to protect people from religion or religious influences.
The FA was simply created to prevent the Federal Government from establishing a state sponsored religion and to tie the hands of that same Federal Government from prohibiting any religious practices whatsoever. There was nothing more to it than that. All this other nonsense about "Separation of Church and State" and the like -- has been spun from whole cloth. By those who are opposed to religion and would like to have it eradicated from our society. Plain and simple.
"Current head football coach Todd Windham said the school system must obey the law, despite everyone’s opinions."
Coach...There is no "law" regarding those signs. If there were one, it would be the "law" itself that would be the violation of the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no LAW respecting an establishment of religion, nor PROHIBIT the free exercise thereof.
It is so disheartening to see good and decent folks kowtowing to the lunacy of "Separation of Church and State." The religious clause of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States was created to protect the very thing those cheerleaders were doing -- not to prevent it! The First Amendment was to protect the rights of the citizens of the state to practice their religion in any manner they see fit -- including banners at a football game if the people so desire it.
If the school wants to prohibit what those cheerleaders are doing, they are well within their right to do so just as they would be if they prohibited a banner with Madonna on it -- it's their perogative. But for the school to prohibit it because of a supposed compliance with the law (no such law exists) or because they believe it's a violation of the First Amendment (impossible because the school isn't Congress and they've made no "law") or thinking it's a violation of the Separation of Church and State (Church and State is a myth - nowhere in the Constitution)...is a continuance of the appeasement of the radical anti-religious element in our society that has no legal or Constitutional legs to stand on other than the intimidation of the people via lawsuits.
And sue they will. But when they do, the neighboring schools should then put five times as many of those banners on their fields. Let them be sued as well. And then more and more schools across the state jump in and do the same. And then in Georgia, Alabama, Florida...Oklahoma and all the way to Alaska! The radicals want to sue to get their way, then by all means let's have the lawsuits -- thousands of them all across the United States!
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
KM...
"What a teacher, adminstrator or coach cannot do is put a student in a coercive position where they have to pray. I'm sure if I said a rosary or a prayer in class some students would do it out of conviction, but some would do it because they were afraid I'd give them a bad grade. That is coercion, that is forcing religion down people's throats, and that is wrong and against the will of God. God wants people to come to Him through their own path, not because the coach or teacher is telling them they have to."
You mean coercion like teachers voicing their political opinions and students feeling the need to agree so as not to get a bad grade?
Or maybe the coercion of students having to agree with Global Warming theories so as not to get on the bad side of a teacher?
Students agreeing with Evolution theories for good grades?
Students accepting homosexuality so as not to have the teacher penalize their grades?
Or maybe the kind of "coercion" from teachers that causes students to try and CONCEAL their religious beliefs to please the teacher?
All kinds of "coercion" exists, but the one we need to worry about involves a banner at a high school football game?
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
storyweaver
"If a group of Muslim girls made a sign that said, "Allah is great and will help you beat the other guys," I wonder how that would be received?"
It would be received as quite ridiculous -- at a ball game in Tennessee being viewed by Christians.
On the other hand, were that sign being displayed at a ball game with a predominant Muslim attendance, nothing at all would have been said about. Especially from any Christians that happened to be among the majority Muslim attendance. And that's because Christians are not only tolerant, but generally possess common sense and reason -- not childishly believing that someone was trying to force their religion down their throat and feeling as if they needed to leap from the stands and call 911!
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
bigdaddydk (11:12)...Outstanding post!
And nothing you stated is in the least bit difficult for anyone to understand.
Good job.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
secateurs
"(Constitutional Law classes are available at any community college!)"
I don't know if I would recommend that. Many of those folks' constitutional knowledge is about on par with many posters on message boards: Repeating what someone else has told them.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
PrayUSA (10:22)
We have many folks among us who just like to pretend. As long as they can pretend that there's an imaginary enemy or threat, they also get to pretend that they're the big heroes and are going to save us all.
We have a growing number of folks in this country who really are violent and would love nothing more than to force us to succumb to their religious beliefs. But none of the pretended heroes ever seem to have time to stand up to them.
So rather than standing-up to real threats, they prefer to pretend that a bunch of high school cheerleaders and banners with religious statements are the second-coming of Hitler. And so the pretended heroes are then dutifully bound to save us all from cheerleaders and innocent Christian folks watching a ball game and meaning no one any harm.
Why without these brave and courageous pretended heroes, our entire nation would be taken over by pom-poms! We owe them so much!
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
cool68mommy...How do you folks manufacture this stuff?
I hardly think that anyone at that game with the banners, was "spewing venom" or "hating" anyone or anything of the sort. Nope, they were just good decent folks out at a high school football game where a bunch of high school cheerleaders had made banners with what they thought to be positive messages. And lo and behold some lone individual has to complain about some irrelevant banner as if it were the second-coming of the Spanish Inquisition.
And of course some folks can't understand why in the world there would be outrage because those cheerleaders are now prohibited from displaying their banners. Can't understand at all. Well, let's think about why they might be outraged.
Think it might have something to do with all the filth, degradation and indecency that school kids and their parents have to tolerate these days, yet some folks act as if the sky is falling and the Republic is in danger of collapse because some cheerleaders painted a banner that had religious quotes on it -- of which the vast majority of people probably paid no attention to?
Think it might have something to do with the United States throwing tons of money at an education system that has now gotten us down around nr. 25 in world rankings -- yet a banner on a football field is a big concern?
Think it might be that we have schools with common drug problems and the kids having sex IN the school -- yet any reference to a religious saying on a banner needs to be struck down and halted post haste?
Could it be that our schools are rapidly becoming nothing but cesspools, but that we are perfectly fine with that as long as they are religion-free cesspools?
You need to be able to look at the big picture of things and stop acting as if there's a bunch of religious zealots foaming at the mouth for a pogram...that is so "scary" to you!
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
thedave states:
"It is not about a "attack on God" it is a attack on the outrageous stunts that Christians tend to pull knowing all along that their behavior is unacceptable to a portion of the population."
"thedave"...Maybe I misunderstood the story and didn't understand that a bunch of Christian girls burst onto a football field in a Jewish community in New York and demanded the conversion of Jews to Christianity with their banners.
But if the story was as I understood it, that cheerleaders from a high school in Tennessess where roughly %99.99 percent are Christians, simply made a banner that contained religious quotes -- exactly where is the "portion of the population" that was to be offended by any of this? Apparently no one was offended other than one person that complained about it. And I do pray for him and certainly hope that he has recovered from such a traumatic event brought on by these little high school girls -- trying to force their religion down his throat!
If it weren't for some people who are so confused, I might have nothing to laugh about.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
someguy11...You state the following:
"As representatives of the state the constitution does give them the right to espouse or promote any religion over any other."
Where in the Constitution is there any such thing? There's absolutely nothing in the Constitution whatsover, that prohibits representatives of the state from espousing or promoting religion. The Congress shall not make any LAWS respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. But a state representative can "espouse" or "promote" whatever they choose.
Of course, those banners were no more "promoting" religion any more than a banner with an Einstein quote on it would be "promoting" Einstein.
In all these many years, I have never been able to figure out why those who simply do not want religious references in public can't just come out and say that. But rather they choose to jump through all these hoops, twists and convolutions of the Constitution to act is if the Founders were trying to protect us all from the likes of teenage girls making banners with religious quotes on them.
Absolutely amazing.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
mrstar...The 14th Amendment did not extend the Bill of Rights to the states, a Supreme Court ruling declared it so. Of course the Supreme Court could rule that stop means yield and we may be forced to comply, but it doesn't make their ruling correct.
But even if we accept the notion that the BOR has been extended to the states, what would that mean? Well, it would logically mean that a state's congress: Shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
And so not only would the Federal Government not be able to PROHIBIT those cheerleaders from having their banners -- but neither could the state, right?
The First Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with all the things that have been read into it. The FA doesn't mean there can be no religion, religious symbols, monuments, etc...in a public place. The FA doesn't mean that if one religion is honored in some fashion or another, that all religions then must be honored. The FA's purpose was not to protect people from religion or religious influences.
The FA was simply created to prevent the Federal Government from establishing a state sponsored religion and to tie the hands of that same Federal Government from prohibiting any religious practices whatsoever. There was nothing more to it than that. All this other nonsense about "Separation of Church and State" and the like -- has been spun from whole cloth. By those who are opposed to religion and would like to have it eradicated from our society. Plain and simple.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
"Current head football coach Todd Windham said the school system must obey the law, despite everyone’s opinions."
Coach...There is no "law" regarding those signs. If there were one, it would be the "law" itself that would be the violation of the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no LAW respecting an establishment of religion, nor PROHIBIT the free exercise thereof.
It is so disheartening to see good and decent folks kowtowing to the lunacy of "Separation of Church and State." The religious clause of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States was created to protect the very thing those cheerleaders were doing -- not to prevent it! The First Amendment was to protect the rights of the citizens of the state to practice their religion in any manner they see fit -- including banners at a football game if the people so desire it.
If the school wants to prohibit what those cheerleaders are doing, they are well within their right to do so just as they would be if they prohibited a banner with Madonna on it -- it's their perogative. But for the school to prohibit it because of a supposed compliance with the law (no such law exists) or because they believe it's a violation of the First Amendment (impossible because the school isn't Congress and they've made no "law") or thinking it's a violation of the Separation of Church and State (Church and State is a myth - nowhere in the Constitution)...is a continuance of the appeasement of the radical anti-religious element in our society that has no legal or Constitutional legs to stand on other than the intimidation of the people via lawsuits.
And sue they will. But when they do, the neighboring schools should then put five times as many of those banners on their fields. Let them be sued as well. And then more and more schools across the state jump in and do the same. And then in Georgia, Alabama, Florida...Oklahoma and all the way to Alaska! The radicals want to sue to get their way, then by all means let's have the lawsuits -- thousands of them all across the United States!