BTW...Revelation was a book based on Apocalyptic Hope for the believers of that time. Contemporary scholars for the last 200 years have discovered that Revelation was written primarily to bring hope to Christians suffering persecution under the Roman Emperor, Domitian. Currently, those who are making money today from FEAR because of bad theology taken from Ezekiel have a special place in hell (whatever you believe Hell to be).
Homosexuals? This is our generations Civil Rights issue. It's almost like in the 60's when whites and blacks could not marry. Any church who calls themselves christian and locks the door or tuns someone away for whatever reason has a special place in hell, too.
You want me to keep going? I do this for a living. :-)
Seriously...hunter_bluff...you are right, this is a great conversation.
AYBROTHER, what exactly are you calling fundamental? Those who concertize their faith? You are right, the Bible is full of metaphors, allegories, similes, and older myth, but it's full of life for the here and now at the same time. The Protestant Reformation was only 500 years ago or so and it's taking scholars a good while to put the texts back together. Prior to that, what people believed was whatever the church told them to believe. The whole idea of thinking for oneself, without a Priest reading in Latin, is a fairly new concept within the last 500 years. The Renaissance and printing press changed everything...THANK GOD! :-) We have a ways to go, to change the ignorance and the corruption that was brought about by greedy opportunists.
I agree that Creationism is silly and we have a lot of scientific data that proves just that. However, IMHO...the message that Jesus brought of Love (that you guys pointed out has been around for a long time) science will never be able to prove that a deity or God or god does not exist. Google Einsteins views on Love. Am I saying God is Love? Probably. God is a name, thought, idea, but references to something that is beyond our thinking and understanding. God (The ALL or Absolute) is a mystery that will never be understood. You guys, or girls, obviously are interested in the concept or you would not be writing comments here. Even BILL MAHER, who says he is an atheist, talks about religion constantly. Why does he do that? Because he is haunted by God and Jesus. People who grow up in church are either haunted by Jesus or they accept his teachings. It's really that simple.
Did primitive tribes attempt to understand their environment by creating myths or stories to try and explain it? Yes, they did, but how did Native American Tribes (Pagan Tribes) come up with the same elemental stories as the Native European Tribes (Pagan Tribes) at the same time? The same creation stories? The same creation myths? They did this without knowing each other or ever having an impact on each other. It's the same common motif we see all throughout history. However, here is the difference with the Hebrew people versus those of a more polytheistic view. The Hebrews figured out that whatever God is, their was only ONE that existed. They belived that "I AM" or I BE" was the one "TRUE" God. What is that God?
Again, God is deeper than anything humans can ever come up with to try and describe what "God" is. In history, we have tried to paint it, draw it, write poetry about it, etc. But words cannot do justice because all we have is language to describe this mystery. Why does the gospel according to John talk about the "word"? What was that word referring to? Was it a perfect word? Could it be "AUM"? Is that why people who understand and respect the mystery meditate upon "AUM"? Probably. It's the perfect word. All vowel sounds are represented in the alpha and omega of this sound and mystery.
Rickaroo, truth is one and sages speak of it by many names. I'm fully aware of the dozens of messiah motifs. There is a collective spirit and I'm discerning that you know enough about it to know that you don't know. It's a truism that was passed through Jewish Kabbalah, and is not some esoteric magic formula for a chosen few. You are right, it's for the here and now. There are Christians who are very well aware of that fact and spread the message. Jesus talked extensively about the "kingdom of heaven" and ideas such as "get behind me satan" to teach people to live in the present. It's not anything new, correct. But Christians hold 33% of the worlds power, so what a great platform to break down ignorance, right? Yes, it has just scratched the surface when one looks at it from this point of view. You missed the point.
However, I digress...this article is about the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and breaking down the walls of segregation. In large cities, and in rural areas, Sundays are extremely segregated and I'm glad to see that we have groups and denominations working to break down those walls. Restoring humanity takes time. Working with real people, with real everyday problems, and real everyday lives takes time.
Jesus was not an imaginary god. He was a political social reformer who flipped the money changers table because the church was making money off the poor under the watchful eye of the Roman Empire. Jesus came to flip the social pyramid of his day and to teach...the first shall become last and the last shall become first.
These two Presbyterian camps are working together to help humanity because that is what they have done for over 200 years throughout the world. For it's size, the CPC and CPCA has done more to advance the message (that I wrote about above) of Jesus more than any other denomination in the USA.
Old boot? No, Jesus' message is just getting started. It hasn't even scratched the surface yet. One can't put old wine in new wineskins. That might be a better parable of Jesus for you to dig into, allahsyoungerbrother. Peace.