EDP1979: Just when I think people can't become any more irrational than they already are....
You think we're just "saying" we're atheists so we won't have to answer to your version of a higher power?
Think about this: we are ALL born atheists. That IS the default position. We have no concept of religion until we are taught by our parents and other caregivers as toddlers and young children, then, as we socialize into our various cultures, by our societies in general. Many children are taught from a very young age to never question their parents’ choice of religion, so they simply accept it and teach it in turn to their children, forming multiple generations of people who don’t realize that they can think for themselves, and that it is okay to question.
Additionally, geography=religion. If you’re from Salt Lake City, Utah, you have a very good chance of being a LDS/Mormon. If you’re from Georgia, you might be a Southern Baptist or Pentecostal. If you were born in Kabul, Afghanistan, you will likely be a follower of Islam. Being born in New Delhi, India would probably mean you were a Hindu.
The fact that much of Europe and North America is now of the Christian faith was due to the decision of one man.
Roman Emperor Constantine decided in 312 C.E. (Common Era or A.D.) that Christianity would be the official religion of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire, before its fall, covered nearly the whole of what is now modern western Europe. The United States is made up of mostly Christians because it was settled by European settlers whose own ancestors had been converted to Christianity centuries before by the Roman invaders. If the U.S. had been settled by people from Middle Eastern countries, we would likely be an Islamic country. Or if Constantine had decided upon a different religion besides Christianity, people might worship Mithra or Zoroaster instead of Jesus and God.
There were many, many, religions being practiced around Constantine’s time in the Roman Empire. In addition, many of the popular religions were strikingly similar, several even including a god born of a virgin who died then was subsequently resurrected. Resurrection myths and virgin births are very common in world mythology. Mithraism was very similar to Christianity and existed about the same time. Mithraism, along with Zoroastrianism, Sol Invictus and Christianity, were among the many “mystery religions” being practiced in the vast Roman Empire, in addition to worship of the traditional Roman gods and goddesses.
One other point I'd like to make - this isn't about the banners but directed at the poster who mentioned that atheists or other nonbelievers (or "godless") "hate God". This is a common misconception by believers toward nonbelievers and I'd like to set the record straight.
While some atheists may have had something tragic happen in their lives causing them to "hate God", this is not the case with the majority of us. Most atheists I know came to this conclusion for purely intellectual reasons: much research on Hebrew and other world mythologies, much personal reflection, and the determination to continue to doubt and question, even when we're told not to.
How can you hate something you don't believe in? That would be like me saying I hate Zeus, or Thor, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny.
We don't want to abolish religion. We just don't believe the Bible, or any other religious text, should be used to legislate. I've read the Bible from cover to cover. I know it contains as many horrible atrocities as it does common-sense advice and wonderful literature and poetry.
I'll close with a famous quote by Stephen Roberts: “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
bag60: Why are you so threatened by those whose opinions differ from yours that you say, "if you don't agree with us, just leave"? Why is that phrase always trotted out?
Ok, suppose that all atheists and other non-Christians pack up and leave the USA, and it becomes the theocracy that so many are apparently dreaming about. What then? Who's next? Other Christians who don't share your particular view of Christianity? And what if YOU'RE suddenly in the minority because of the views you hold, and you're told, "if you don't like it, just get out"? That wouldn't feel so good, would it?
Christians have been fighting and arguing among themselves over who possesses the real "truth" for centuries. It would be funny had so many people not died or been tortured in the name of the particular "truth" of the day.
Government must remain secular to remain fair to all citizens.
"Let's think back a few decades and look at how our country used to be united."
I suppose that depends upon the perspective from which you are viewing it. Only a few decades ago, many Americans, mostly Southerners, were "united" in their view that African Americans were not deserving of equal rights. Decades before that, they were "united" in their belief that Native Americans needed to be exterminated. Just because the majority of people believe in an idea does not make it "right".
"If we have a group of people who believe in something, then why should one person be able to extinguish this belief?"
No one is trying to extinguish the belief of these cheerleaders or anyone else! They are free to practice their religion in the appropriate venue. My opinion is that the banners are mostly harmless but if we call it what it really is, it's proselytizing, plain and simple. Non-Christians, at least in this area, have Christian culture blaring out at us from every avenue. We usually tolerate it with stoic silence. Then, when one of us finally dares to speak up and mention that a public school event is maybe not the best places to evangalize, we are shouted down, and treated as if we have no voice in the matter whatsoever. The reality is that even the South is becoming 'globalized', and we must all learn to live together in peace and tolerance, or we will be in a sad state indeed.
I agree that many children are more self-centered today and have an "entitlement" agenda going on. But this is the fault of the parents, and many of them I've seen are some of the most devout Christians I know. Religion doesn't have anything to do with that. I have raised my children without religion. They are responsible and kind young adults and both hard workers. I receive compliments constantly about how polite and well-mannered they are. And me, I am more moral than most of my Christian friends. Christianity does not have the corner on morality. We should treat all fellow humans with respect. We are all on this planet together. My hope is that reason and tolerance will prevail.
As a native Georgian who also happens to be an atheist (for purely intellectual reasons) I have read many of the hateful comments - on both sides of this issue - with sadness. I have sat at many football games (both my kids were in the marching band) and read many similar Bible verses at different schools all over North Georgia. A few Muslims and other non-Christians have sat in the same crowds with me. Did we protest? No. But that doesn't make it right.
Don't wallow in ignorance, folks. Don't repeat untruths just because it's what "they" say. The comments about the founders being Deists, TRUE. The comment about "In God we Trust" not being applied until the 1950s: TRUE. It was a knee-jerk reaction to the declared atheism of the Soviet Union and a spinoff of the dark McCarthy era. "One Nation, Under God" has not always been in the Pledge of Allegiance. And the poster who said the majority does NOT rule is correct. The Constitution is in place to protect the minority (like me) from the tyranny of the majority. But don't just take my word for it. Look it up. It's out there for anyone to read, if you actually research for yourself instead of listening to the diatribes of hate-mongers like Limbaugh, Coulter, and O'Reilly.
If you are secure in your faith, you should not need the Government to validate it for you, nor should you feel threatened by those who don't happen to believe as you do. One of the things that makes me most angry about many Southerners is they automatically assume that 1) I am a Christian and 2) that I vote Republican.
Freedom OF religion is, indeed, freedom FROM religion, if one wishes. I live very happily without religion. I treat it all as the mythology that it is. Hebrew mythology is no different than Greek or Egyptian. I love the South and never plan to move, but I hate the attitudes. I haven't traveled a lot but have traveled outside the South enough to know that non-Christians are tolerated much more outside the Bible Belt.
I do not want to abolish religion. I just believe it should be kept where it belongs: out of government and in the private sector. Peace.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
EDP1979: Just when I think people can't become any more irrational than they already are....
You think we're just "saying" we're atheists so we won't have to answer to your version of a higher power?
Think about this: we are ALL born atheists. That IS the default position. We have no concept of religion until we are taught by our parents and other caregivers as toddlers and young children, then, as we socialize into our various cultures, by our societies in general. Many children are taught from a very young age to never question their parents’ choice of religion, so they simply accept it and teach it in turn to their children, forming multiple generations of people who don’t realize that they can think for themselves, and that it is okay to question.
Additionally, geography=religion. If you’re from Salt Lake City, Utah, you have a very good chance of being a LDS/Mormon. If you’re from Georgia, you might be a Southern Baptist or Pentecostal. If you were born in Kabul, Afghanistan, you will likely be a follower of Islam. Being born in New Delhi, India would probably mean you were a Hindu.
The fact that much of Europe and North America is now of the Christian faith was due to the decision of one man.
Roman Emperor Constantine decided in 312 C.E. (Common Era or A.D.) that Christianity would be the official religion of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire, before its fall, covered nearly the whole of what is now modern western Europe. The United States is made up of mostly Christians because it was settled by European settlers whose own ancestors had been converted to Christianity centuries before by the Roman invaders. If the U.S. had been settled by people from Middle Eastern countries, we would likely be an Islamic country. Or if Constantine had decided upon a different religion besides Christianity, people might worship Mithra or Zoroaster instead of Jesus and God.
There were many, many, religions being practiced around Constantine’s time in the Roman Empire. In addition, many of the popular religions were strikingly similar, several even including a god born of a virgin who died then was subsequently resurrected. Resurrection myths and virgin births are very common in world mythology. Mithraism was very similar to Christianity and existed about the same time. Mithraism, along with Zoroastrianism, Sol Invictus and Christianity, were among the many “mystery religions” being practiced in the vast Roman Empire, in addition to worship of the traditional Roman gods and goddesses.
Look it up. It's fascinating reading.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
One other point I'd like to make - this isn't about the banners but directed at the poster who mentioned that atheists or other nonbelievers (or "godless") "hate God". This is a common misconception by believers toward nonbelievers and I'd like to set the record straight.
While some atheists may have had something tragic happen in their lives causing them to "hate God", this is not the case with the majority of us. Most atheists I know came to this conclusion for purely intellectual reasons: much research on Hebrew and other world mythologies, much personal reflection, and the determination to continue to doubt and question, even when we're told not to.
How can you hate something you don't believe in? That would be like me saying I hate Zeus, or Thor, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny.
We don't want to abolish religion. We just don't believe the Bible, or any other religious text, should be used to legislate. I've read the Bible from cover to cover. I know it contains as many horrible atrocities as it does common-sense advice and wonderful literature and poetry.
I'll close with a famous quote by Stephen Roberts: “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
bag60: Why are you so threatened by those whose opinions differ from yours that you say, "if you don't agree with us, just leave"? Why is that phrase always trotted out?
Ok, suppose that all atheists and other non-Christians pack up and leave the USA, and it becomes the theocracy that so many are apparently dreaming about. What then? Who's next? Other Christians who don't share your particular view of Christianity? And what if YOU'RE suddenly in the minority because of the views you hold, and you're told, "if you don't like it, just get out"? That wouldn't feel so good, would it?
Christians have been fighting and arguing among themselves over who possesses the real "truth" for centuries. It would be funny had so many people not died or been tortured in the name of the particular "truth" of the day.
Government must remain secular to remain fair to all citizens.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
"Let's think back a few decades and look at how our country used to be united."
I suppose that depends upon the perspective from which you are viewing it. Only a few decades ago, many Americans, mostly Southerners, were "united" in their view that African Americans were not deserving of equal rights. Decades before that, they were "united" in their belief that Native Americans needed to be exterminated. Just because the majority of people believe in an idea does not make it "right".
"If we have a group of people who believe in something, then why should one person be able to extinguish this belief?"
No one is trying to extinguish the belief of these cheerleaders or anyone else! They are free to practice their religion in the appropriate venue. My opinion is that the banners are mostly harmless but if we call it what it really is, it's proselytizing, plain and simple. Non-Christians, at least in this area, have Christian culture blaring out at us from every avenue. We usually tolerate it with stoic silence. Then, when one of us finally dares to speak up and mention that a public school event is maybe not the best places to evangalize, we are shouted down, and treated as if we have no voice in the matter whatsoever. The reality is that even the South is becoming 'globalized', and we must all learn to live together in peace and tolerance, or we will be in a sad state indeed.
I agree that many children are more self-centered today and have an "entitlement" agenda going on. But this is the fault of the parents, and many of them I've seen are some of the most devout Christians I know. Religion doesn't have anything to do with that. I have raised my children without religion. They are responsible and kind young adults and both hard workers. I receive compliments constantly about how polite and well-mannered they are. And me, I am more moral than most of my Christian friends. Christianity does not have the corner on morality. We should treat all fellow humans with respect. We are all on this planet together. My hope is that reason and tolerance will prevail.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
As a native Georgian who also happens to be an atheist (for purely intellectual reasons) I have read many of the hateful comments - on both sides of this issue - with sadness. I have sat at many football games (both my kids were in the marching band) and read many similar Bible verses at different schools all over North Georgia. A few Muslims and other non-Christians have sat in the same crowds with me. Did we protest? No. But that doesn't make it right.
Don't wallow in ignorance, folks. Don't repeat untruths just because it's what "they" say. The comments about the founders being Deists, TRUE. The comment about "In God we Trust" not being applied until the 1950s: TRUE. It was a knee-jerk reaction to the declared atheism of the Soviet Union and a spinoff of the dark McCarthy era. "One Nation, Under God" has not always been in the Pledge of Allegiance. And the poster who said the majority does NOT rule is correct. The Constitution is in place to protect the minority (like me) from the tyranny of the majority. But don't just take my word for it. Look it up. It's out there for anyone to read, if you actually research for yourself instead of listening to the diatribes of hate-mongers like Limbaugh, Coulter, and O'Reilly.
If you are secure in your faith, you should not need the Government to validate it for you, nor should you feel threatened by those who don't happen to believe as you do. One of the things that makes me most angry about many Southerners is they automatically assume that 1) I am a Christian and 2) that I vote Republican.
Freedom OF religion is, indeed, freedom FROM religion, if one wishes. I live very happily without religion. I treat it all as the mythology that it is. Hebrew mythology is no different than Greek or Egyptian. I love the South and never plan to move, but I hate the attitudes. I haven't traveled a lot but have traveled outside the South enough to know that non-Christians are tolerated much more outside the Bible Belt.
I do not want to abolish religion. I just believe it should be kept where it belongs: out of government and in the private sector. Peace.