Sorry TOES, the facts regarding the steel/auto industries refusal to innovate, modernize, and implement quality controls leading to their demise are well known.
-The steel companies stuck with the open hearth furnace long after Japan had moved to the more efficient oxygen furnace. Instead of switching to this technology US plants built bigger open hearth furnaces to try to make up for the lack of efficiency. This created a huge advantage in cost savings to the Japanese.
-Another process was continuous casting, Japan had been using this process ten years earlier then the United States this would cost the United States more efficiency in the long run.
-U S steel mills were also 10 years late in implementing computers in their plants which further reduced their efficiency. The Japanese used these advantages to produce better, cheaper, and more steel.
-Quality control was given short shrift.
Their demise was of their own making. Even while making enormous profits and being the largest companies in the world they refused to invest in the infrastructure needed to compete. They were more concerned with quarterly profits.
Please feel free to refute the above with facts. Also I would be willing to bet that your family members who were in the union were very satisfied making union wages, overtime, pension, workplace safety, etc. I would also be willing to bet that they embraced the idea that workers should have a say in negotiating their sweat and labor in an industry as labor intensive and dangerous as steel mills. Perhaps they also noticed the obscene profits that management wished to keep for themselves? Ya think?
To bad they did not pass along to you the concept that a person should not have to prostrate themselves at the company altar to receive a fair wage relevant to the profits of the company. It seems that even YOU have profited from your families union membership.
Sorry TOES, but the facts are the facts. Refusal to innovate, upgrade their factories and mills, lack of quality controls, and a monopolistic attitude were the main reason the steel and auto industry lost their edge.
The unions negotiated their wages and benefits based on the profits of these corporations which were extraordinary. U S Steel at one time was the largest corporation in the world.
Perhaps you remember 1973 during the oil embargo when the Big Three panicked and finally realized Japanese car companies were eating their lunch with smaller, more efficient, gas saving cars.
How did the Big Three respond to Japanese imports? Remember the Vega, AMC Pacer, Ford Maverick, etc. These pieces of junk were management decisions. Americans were demanding better quality and the Japanese supplied this to them. Meanwhile the Big Three ignored quality and stuck with their antiquated factories and mills. Oh, and BTW, the Japanese also had auto unions.
The steel mills were as bad and refused to upgrade their mills and embrace new processes to provide better steel. Sorry TOES, those are just facts.
Since you brought it up about your family, were they union members?
TOES, I think you have no clue as to the role management had in the demise of the American steel and automotive industry.
Mismanagement, failure to upgrade plants, failure to accept new technology, failure to embrace quality controls, etc. are just a few of the snafus that led to their demise.
Both industries had a virtual monopoly here for decades and allowed their infrastructure to decay as post WWII countries built new plants with superior products while their American counterparts remained stagnant.
A couple of books you might want to peruse, 'The Reckoning' by Pulitzer Prize winner David and 'The Decline of American Steel' by Paul Tiffany. One quote from Tiffany's book regarding American Steel's demise should be noted.
"Prior scholarship has generally placed the primary burden of blame for these outcomes on company management. Due to errors in expansion management, neglect of technological innovation, and perhaps the arrogance of corporate power in relation to price and labor policies, critics find the industry responsible for its own demise".
Haberstam' book highlights a man named William Edwards Deming who attempted to attempted to influence American automakers in improving quality controls and reducing the waste of their gas guzzling autos. He was rejected and moved to Japan to work with their automotive industry. He is credited with almost single-handedly turning around the Japanese auto industry. He is considered almost a god even to this day in Japan.
My father dealt with the steel industry for decades and watched as it self-destructed.
One has to wonder if our self-described "Patriot" sits in front of the TV watching MSNBC while hurling invectives at Bill Maher, Rachel Maddow, Jon Stewart, etc.
Bennett is too classy to reply to his juvenile criticism and no one on MSNBC can hear him.
BRP gives new meaning to the term "Cheap Shot".
While I see endless diatribes from the right on this forum aimed at President Obama, there seems to be a curious lack of conviction or support for Mr. Romney from these same posters.
Perhaps if Mr. Romney started calling President Obama unamerican, a Muslim, questioned his birth certificate, or played the race card, then perhaps these posters would show more enthusiasm for their candidate.
Hey Romney, throw these guys a bone. They are lost without some type of conspiracy theory to gnaw on.
Woof!
Tutu says "So what you’re saying is that the standard boilerplate disclaimer at the beginning of each outside generated study is evidence that the study is fraudulent."
Uhh, wrong. I neither said nor suggested that. But, as usual, you are welcome to your delusions.
I was suggesting what ibshame so eloquently posted on May 16, 2012 at 8:51 a.m.
I noticed that you conveniently did not address the rest of the post.
Here ya go...
So how did deregulation and lack of oversight work out during the S&L crisis, the internet bubble, Enron, housing bubble, banking crisis, etc.? But hey, the rich and powerful appreciate your support.
Cheap Shots
Sorry TOES, the facts regarding the steel/auto industries refusal to innovate, modernize, and implement quality controls leading to their demise are well known.
-The steel companies stuck with the open hearth furnace long after Japan had moved to the more efficient oxygen furnace. Instead of switching to this technology US plants built bigger open hearth furnaces to try to make up for the lack of efficiency. This created a huge advantage in cost savings to the Japanese.
-Another process was continuous casting, Japan had been using this process ten years earlier then the United States this would cost the United States more efficiency in the long run.
-U S steel mills were also 10 years late in implementing computers in their plants which further reduced their efficiency. The Japanese used these advantages to produce better, cheaper, and more steel.
-Quality control was given short shrift.
Their demise was of their own making. Even while making enormous profits and being the largest companies in the world they refused to invest in the infrastructure needed to compete. They were more concerned with quarterly profits.
Please feel free to refute the above with facts. Also I would be willing to bet that your family members who were in the union were very satisfied making union wages, overtime, pension, workplace safety, etc. I would also be willing to bet that they embraced the idea that workers should have a say in negotiating their sweat and labor in an industry as labor intensive and dangerous as steel mills. Perhaps they also noticed the obscene profits that management wished to keep for themselves? Ya think?
To bad they did not pass along to you the concept that a person should not have to prostrate themselves at the company altar to receive a fair wage relevant to the profits of the company. It seems that even YOU have profited from your families union membership.
Ironic? Yes indeed.
Cheap Shots
Sorry TOES, but the facts are the facts. Refusal to innovate, upgrade their factories and mills, lack of quality controls, and a monopolistic attitude were the main reason the steel and auto industry lost their edge. The unions negotiated their wages and benefits based on the profits of these corporations which were extraordinary. U S Steel at one time was the largest corporation in the world.
Perhaps you remember 1973 during the oil embargo when the Big Three panicked and finally realized Japanese car companies were eating their lunch with smaller, more efficient, gas saving cars. How did the Big Three respond to Japanese imports? Remember the Vega, AMC Pacer, Ford Maverick, etc. These pieces of junk were management decisions. Americans were demanding better quality and the Japanese supplied this to them. Meanwhile the Big Three ignored quality and stuck with their antiquated factories and mills. Oh, and BTW, the Japanese also had auto unions.
The steel mills were as bad and refused to upgrade their mills and embrace new processes to provide better steel. Sorry TOES, those are just facts.
Since you brought it up about your family, were they union members?
Cheap Shots
TOES, I think you have no clue as to the role management had in the demise of the American steel and automotive industry.
Mismanagement, failure to upgrade plants, failure to accept new technology, failure to embrace quality controls, etc. are just a few of the snafus that led to their demise.
Both industries had a virtual monopoly here for decades and allowed their infrastructure to decay as post WWII countries built new plants with superior products while their American counterparts remained stagnant.
A couple of books you might want to peruse, 'The Reckoning' by Pulitzer Prize winner David and 'The Decline of American Steel' by Paul Tiffany. One quote from Tiffany's book regarding American Steel's demise should be noted. "Prior scholarship has generally placed the primary burden of blame for these outcomes on company management. Due to errors in expansion management, neglect of technological innovation, and perhaps the arrogance of corporate power in relation to price and labor policies, critics find the industry responsible for its own demise".
Haberstam' book highlights a man named William Edwards Deming who attempted to attempted to influence American automakers in improving quality controls and reducing the waste of their gas guzzling autos. He was rejected and moved to Japan to work with their automotive industry. He is credited with almost single-handedly turning around the Japanese auto industry. He is considered almost a god even to this day in Japan.
My father dealt with the steel industry for decades and watched as it self-destructed.
Cheap Shots
One has to wonder if our self-described "Patriot" sits in front of the TV watching MSNBC while hurling invectives at Bill Maher, Rachel Maddow, Jon Stewart, etc. Bennett is too classy to reply to his juvenile criticism and no one on MSNBC can hear him. BRP gives new meaning to the term "Cheap Shot".
Bennett Archive: Dog Breeds
While I see endless diatribes from the right on this forum aimed at President Obama, there seems to be a curious lack of conviction or support for Mr. Romney from these same posters. Perhaps if Mr. Romney started calling President Obama unamerican, a Muslim, questioned his birth certificate, or played the race card, then perhaps these posters would show more enthusiasm for their candidate. Hey Romney, throw these guys a bone. They are lost without some type of conspiracy theory to gnaw on. Woof!
Bennett Archive: Dog Breeds
Following up on the dog analogy I think you could safely say that the term CUR would aptly describe Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage and others of their ilk.
Cur: 1. An aggressive dog or one that is in poor condition, esp. a mongrel. Cur: 2. A contemptible man.
Bennett Archive: Dog Breeds
tutu__q = "Good doggie".
Bennett Archive: Dog Breeds
Fox News tells lapdog followers...
"Fetch"
"Roll over"
"Attack"
"Good doggie"
Bennett Archive: Dog Breeds
Hmm, myself I always considered the viewers of Fox News of the lap dog variety.
-lapdog : a servile dependent or follower.
-lapdog : A submissive individual who is socially dependent on the leader of the group.
Yep, sounds like some of our Fox News followers here.
Deregulation
Tutu says "So what you’re saying is that the standard boilerplate disclaimer at the beginning of each outside generated study is evidence that the study is fraudulent."
Uhh, wrong. I neither said nor suggested that. But, as usual, you are welcome to your delusions.
I was suggesting what ibshame so eloquently posted on May 16, 2012 at 8:51 a.m.
I noticed that you conveniently did not address the rest of the post. Here ya go...
So how did deregulation and lack of oversight work out during the S&L crisis, the internet bubble, Enron, housing bubble, banking crisis, etc.? But hey, the rich and powerful appreciate your support.