Agreed, Easy. I think Sam Harris has it right, too. "Moderate" christians, who are too timid to oppose the overbearing, revisionist loudmouths among them, are actually enabling the rabid theocrats and will suffer greatly from the inevitable confict that we see coming. If they do not put down the march of the christo-fascists who do not respect the law and have no more civility than the most committed radical jihadist, it's going to get messy.
You said "Why should we not be able to speak of God just because you don't believe?"
As Easy has said going on 100 times in this thread - you can speak of your chosen deity quite freely, just not in a way or in a venue that creates the impression that the government is endorsing your speech or favoring your belief over others ... as in putting it on our money, in our national motto and praying to it exclusively in government meetings..
Love said: "the last time I looked at any/all U.S. money it states "In GOD We Trust". It's been that way from the beginning."
Horsefeathers!. Yet another religionist myth - the offensive religionist reference on our money was not mandated until the 1950s when the christo-fascists of that day changed our pledge and national motto to huff and puff in opposition to "godless communism."
And your idiotic comment about the country's founding shows you are just as ignorant of history as is Conservative.
Conservative, you idiot, you have no argument here either. Unless the Texas state Senate mandates that EVERY session will be opened with a Muslim prayer, nobody should bat an eye. Now - maybe they'll let an atheist open a session with an excerpt from one of R.C. Ingersoll's speeches. I like this one, appropriately from "God and the Constitution" ...
"We have already compared the benefits of theology and science. When the theologian governed the world, it was covered with huts and hovels for the many, palaces and cathedrals for the few. To nearly all the children of men, reading and writing were unknown arts. The poor were clad in rags and skins -- they devoured crusts, and gnawed bones. The day of Science dawned, and the luxuries of a century ago are the necessities of to-day. Men in the middle ranks of life have more of the conveniences and elegancies than the princes and kings of the theological times. But above and over all this, is the development of mind. There is more of value in the brain of an average man of to-day -- of a master-mechanic, of a chemist, of a naturalist, of an inventor, than there was in the brain of the world four hundred years ago.
These blessings did not fall from the skies. These benefits did not drop from the outstretched hands of priests. They were not found in cathedrals or behind altars -- neither were they searched for with holy candles. They were not discovered by the closed eyes of prayer, nor did they come in answer to superstitious supplication. They are the children of freedom, the gifts of reason, observation and experience -- and for them all, man is indebted to man."
Like some other states, South Carolina was dragged kicking and screaming back under the auspices of the U.S. Constitution after the Civil War.
The 1868 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, a post-Civil War reconstruction amendment, requires individual states to provide equal protection under the law to ALL people within their jurisdictions. This requirement supersedes ANY applicable statutory laws and sections in state constitutions. It thus nullifies the effect of clauses in state constitutions that discriminate against American citizens on the bases of race, gender or belief, etc..
This was confirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1961.
Unfortunately, the clauses retain great symbolic value. Decades or centuries later, they lend legitimacy to Conservative's expression of hatred and mistrust towards religious minorities and those who reject religion entirely.
And we thought conservative Republicans only wanted to "take the country back" to the good 'ole 1950s - apparently that's not even half of it.
Jimcarwest's statement is dead wrong. What "the majority wants" does not apply to Constitutionally guaranteed civil rights. If only one person's civil rights are violated in Hamilton County, the Constitution is on the side of that person. When the Hamilton County Commission establishes, as it has, that their functions are done only in the name of the xtian god, they are violating the rights of conscience of EVERY citizen and taxpayer in the county that does not recognize that belief and they are thus subject to penalties prescribed by the law and the courts for such transgressions of those persons' rights of conscience.
We should all listen carefully to what our County Attorney, Reverend Reubin Taylor, says on the issue.
"Let Bible guide daily lives, not an agenda" and other Letters to the Editors
Ken Orr said:
"We Are to Love These Individuals Into The Kingdom of Our Saviour."
Two words, Ken: Charles Worley.
Pray on, Hamilton County Commission
Conservative ... time for your meds.
Pray on, Hamilton County Commission
Yep - then it'll be "Pay-on, Hamilton County Commission!"
Public prayer and the law
Agreed, Easy. I think Sam Harris has it right, too. "Moderate" christians, who are too timid to oppose the overbearing, revisionist loudmouths among them, are actually enabling the rabid theocrats and will suffer greatly from the inevitable confict that we see coming. If they do not put down the march of the christo-fascists who do not respect the law and have no more civility than the most committed radical jihadist, it's going to get messy.
Public prayer and the law
Love - You people are INCREDIBLE.
You said "Why should we not be able to speak of God just because you don't believe?"
As Easy has said going on 100 times in this thread - you can speak of your chosen deity quite freely, just not in a way or in a venue that creates the impression that the government is endorsing your speech or favoring your belief over others ... as in putting it on our money, in our national motto and praying to it exclusively in government meetings..
Public prayer and the law
Love said: "the last time I looked at any/all U.S. money it states "In GOD We Trust". It's been that way from the beginning."
Horsefeathers!. Yet another religionist myth - the offensive religionist reference on our money was not mandated until the 1950s when the christo-fascists of that day changed our pledge and national motto to huff and puff in opposition to "godless communism."
And your idiotic comment about the country's founding shows you are just as ignorant of history as is Conservative.
Public prayer and the law
Conservative, you idiot, you have no argument here either. Unless the Texas state Senate mandates that EVERY session will be opened with a Muslim prayer, nobody should bat an eye. Now - maybe they'll let an atheist open a session with an excerpt from one of R.C. Ingersoll's speeches. I like this one, appropriately from "God and the Constitution" ...
"We have already compared the benefits of theology and science. When the theologian governed the world, it was covered with huts and hovels for the many, palaces and cathedrals for the few. To nearly all the children of men, reading and writing were unknown arts. The poor were clad in rags and skins -- they devoured crusts, and gnawed bones. The day of Science dawned, and the luxuries of a century ago are the necessities of to-day. Men in the middle ranks of life have more of the conveniences and elegancies than the princes and kings of the theological times. But above and over all this, is the development of mind. There is more of value in the brain of an average man of to-day -- of a master-mechanic, of a chemist, of a naturalist, of an inventor, than there was in the brain of the world four hundred years ago. These blessings did not fall from the skies. These benefits did not drop from the outstretched hands of priests. They were not found in cathedrals or behind altars -- neither were they searched for with holy candles. They were not discovered by the closed eyes of prayer, nor did they come in answer to superstitious supplication. They are the children of freedom, the gifts of reason, observation and experience -- and for them all, man is indebted to man."
Public prayer and the law
KKEMERAIT: Press "REWIND" back to 11:48 then Press "PLAY"
Public prayer and the law
Like some other states, South Carolina was dragged kicking and screaming back under the auspices of the U.S. Constitution after the Civil War.
The 1868 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, a post-Civil War reconstruction amendment, requires individual states to provide equal protection under the law to ALL people within their jurisdictions. This requirement supersedes ANY applicable statutory laws and sections in state constitutions. It thus nullifies the effect of clauses in state constitutions that discriminate against American citizens on the bases of race, gender or belief, etc..
This was confirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1961.
Unfortunately, the clauses retain great symbolic value. Decades or centuries later, they lend legitimacy to Conservative's expression of hatred and mistrust towards religious minorities and those who reject religion entirely.
And we thought conservative Republicans only wanted to "take the country back" to the good 'ole 1950s - apparently that's not even half of it.
Public prayer and the law
Jimcarwest's statement is dead wrong. What "the majority wants" does not apply to Constitutionally guaranteed civil rights. If only one person's civil rights are violated in Hamilton County, the Constitution is on the side of that person. When the Hamilton County Commission establishes, as it has, that their functions are done only in the name of the xtian god, they are violating the rights of conscience of EVERY citizen and taxpayer in the county that does not recognize that belief and they are thus subject to penalties prescribed by the law and the courts for such transgressions of those persons' rights of conscience.
We should all listen carefully to what our County Attorney, Reverend Reubin Taylor, says on the issue.