On a lighter note.
I was sitting at the end of a Vegas bar the other night and noticed Alprova and Zableedofisterix were further down chatting over a couple of cocktails when I overheard…
Al, “What the difference between a Jew and a canoe?”
Zab, “I dunno. What?”
Al, “A canoe tips.”
Zab, “HAW! Ain’t that the effing truth.”
After a moment or two Al says, “Y’know, I’ve been thinking about the sh!t the Palestinians have to deal with all the time in Gaza.”
Zab gruffly interrupts, ”Dude, if you think I’m gonna sit here and listen to that kind of antisemitic crap”.........
I paid the bartender and left.
Good cartoon today Clay. A perfect analogy.
In this on again – off again conflict, both sides have the same aim: to put an end to a situation that existed before it started. To put an end to the launching of rockets into Israel from the Gaza Strip. And conversely; To put an end to the blockade of the Gaza Strip (the new Warsaw Ghetto) by Israel - and Egypt. Once And For All!
Except that neither side has a strategy other than terrorizing the civilian population of the other side.
Remember not long ago something called the Arab Spring? It was an uprising against the corrupt, oppressive and shameless Arab elites. Make no mistake; identification with the forsaken Palestinians was an important part of this. But now, for the first time, almost all Arab governments (not their general population) have begun tacitly supporting Israel. For young Arabs that viewed the Arab Spring as nationalist redemption, this is an act of shameful humiliation.
What has happened now is, from the point of view of today’s young Arabs, worse - much worse. Egyptian generals (now Israeli subcontractors), Saudi(ptui)princes, Kuwaiti emirs and their contemporaries throughout the region stand before their younger generation naked and contemptible, while the Hamas fighters are looking like shining examples to be emulated.
It’s plainly obvious that neither side can compel the other side to capitulate. Thus proving out what history that has shown time and again, that terrorizing a population causes it to unite behind its leaders and hate the enemy even more. In this case I believe, unfortunately, may lead to an even more radical Islamism.
Wash –rinse - repeat.
Good one Clay.
The problem isn't 'radical Islam', the problem is just --- Islam. Is not Its underlying reality not dissimilar from that of the 'Borg'? "They (Islam & the Borg) exhibit no desire for negotiation or reason, only assimilation."
Continued from 5:47 above
Despite the Zionists’ claim "the Romans didn't rename Judea as 'Palestina' until a hundred years after the death of Jesus," contemporaries of Jesus also routinely referred to Palestine as, well, Palestine. For instance, in the first decade of the 1st Century, the Roman poet Ovid mentioned Palestine in both his famed mythological poem Metamorphoses and his erotic elegy The Art of Love. He also wrote of "the waters of Palestine" in his calendrical poem Fasti. Around the same time, another Latin poet Tibullus wrote of "the crowded cities of Palestine" in a section "Messalla’s Triumph" in his poem Delia.
The noted Alexandrian Jewish philosopher Philo, writing around the 1stCentury CE, opined, "Also Syria in Palestine, which is occupied by no small part of the very populous nation of the Jews, is not unproductive of honourable virtue." (XII.75)
The Jewish historian Josephus (c.37-100 CE) was born and raised in Jerusalem, a military commander in Galilee during the First Jewish Revolt against the occupying Roman authority, acted as negotiator during the Siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE and later penned vital volumes of Levantine Jewish history. His The Jewish War, Antiquities of the Jews, and Against Apion all contain copious references to Palestine and Palestinians. Towards the end of Antiquities, Josephus writes, "I shall now, therefore, make an end here of my Antiquities; after the conclusion of which events, I began to write that account of the war; and these Antiquities contain what hath been delivered down to us from the original creation of man, until the twelfth year of the reign of Nero, as to what hath befallen the Jews, as well in Egypt as in Syria and in Palestine, and what we have suffered from the Assyrians and Babylonians, and what afflictions the Persians and Macedonians, and after them the Romans, have brought upon us; for I think I may say that I have composed this history with sufficient accuracy in all things." (XX.11.2)
The claim that the Roman emperor Hadrian, eager to punish Jewish inhabitants of Judea after the Bar Kokhba Revolt, officially changed the name of the region to "Syria Palaestina" or simply "Palestine" in 135 CE and forced the Jewish community into exile is dubious at best, especially when, by then, the terms "Syrian Palestine" and "Palestine" had already been in use for over six hundred years.
So ah – you know - get your history right Bucky.
Your contention; quote: ”Modern day Palestinians have no claim to the land that is now the State of Israel. They're Arabs. They have no connection to Palestine from long ago. Modern day people, who call them- selves "Palestinians" have absolutely no claim to that land.” has absolutely no historical sponsorship.
Thus I posit. The same case can be made for modern day Israeli’s, for they too have no connection to the Israelite s from long ago.
Specific references to Palestine date back nearly five hundred years before the time of Jesus. In the 5th Century BC, Herodotus, the first historian in Western civilization, referenced ‘Palestine’ numerous times in chronicles of the ancient world.
The Histories, including the following passages, (compiled by Nima Shirazi) describe the ‘Syrians of Palestine’. "...they live in the coastal parts of Syria; and that region of Syria and all that lies between it and Egypt is called Palestine." (VII.89) The above translation by Harry Carter is featured in the 1958 Heritage Press edition of Herodotus' famous work. Both older and newer versions corroborate the accuracy of the reference. A. D. Godley's 1920 translation of the crucial line states, "This part of Syria as far as Egypt is all called Palestine", while Robin Waterfield's 1998 updated Oxford translationrenders the passage this way: "This part of Syria, all the way to the border with Egypt, is known as Palestine."
A hundred years later, in the mid-4th Century BCE, Aristotle made reference to the Dead Sea in his Meteorology. "Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink, this would bear out what we have said," he wrote. "They say that this lake is so bitter and salt that no fish live in it and that if you soak clothes in it and shake them it cleans them." (II.3)
Two hundred years later, in the mid-2nd Century BCE, ancient geographer Polemon wrote of a place "not far from Arabia in the part of Syria called Palestine," while Greek travel writer Pausanias wrote in his Description of Greece, "In front of the sanctuary grow palm-trees, the fruit of which, though not wholly edible like the dates of Palestine, yet are riper than those of Ionia." (9.19.8)
Do I listen to him (Sean Hannity)? Yes I do from time to time. Quote: ”Because I don't. That's my view.” Mmm - sorry, I’m going to have to call BS on that one.
While not a supporter of Hamas by any stretch of the imagination, that fact of the matter is that after urging by the USA, the UN and Israel, the Palestinians held elections (democratically I might add) and Hamas carried the majority, whether you like it or not. Personally, I think the Palestinians voted stupidly. But that’s not my (nor yours) call to make.
To say, ”they deserve what they get.” is as extreme as any Hamas statement.
By the way. It has been claimed that Palestine never really existed to start with. As the Prime Minister of Israel said, ”There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed. How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." Hmm, what do you make of that?
Very nice today Clay. The broken olive branch is quite apropos. I do think the branch, which has been detached from reality (the olive tree) long ago should be brown and withered.
Do the Israelis or Palestinians really want peace? Or is the doublethink of the Arab/Israelis a more apt description; ‘The objective is not to win, but to maintain a constant state of conflict in order to keep its citizens under control.’ ”Oceania(Israel) has always been at war with Eastasia (Palestine).” It seems to fit quite well - don’t you think.
The entire Western media always frames each and every violent death of any Palestinian as a necessary 'retaliatory' strike (this is especially true of FOX news) based on any previous attack by Palestinians at any time. Just as easily, the media could have said... ‘home made rockets were fired into Israel in response to the 6 year imprisonment of over a million people living in the Gaza Strip.’ Ever since the prisoners of Gaza democratically elected someone to represent them that was not a stooge of Washington or Tel Aviv, Israelis in close consultation with the U.S. have been trying to figure out a way to ethnically cleanse the Gaza inhabitants in case they grew uncomfortable with their indefinite imprisonment.
Fortunately for the Israelis, one Merkava carries more firepower than all of the home made rockets ever fired into Israel combined providing an unfair advantage in suppressing the Palestinians. As building of extermination camps doesn't sit well with Israelis, the Palestinians will be culled in a more 'humane' method using everything from HE bombs, offshore artillery and good old fashioned rifle fire. Many Palestinians who committed the crime of owning a home in an area coveted by Israeli settlers, have had their homes expropriated, bulldozed and replaced with bitter, racist settlers who hate anyone not Jewish equally. The displaced Palestinians as a result are now locked up in Gaza in the hopes that not a single Palestinian gets pissed off at the Israeli State or else mass murder will ensue to keep the prisoners in line. Meanwhile the Israeli government, who denies that their racism in any shape or form, continue to espouse their views that a single Israeli soldier's death is a greater tragedy that the death of a thousand Palestinian children and their mothers.
Because Israelis consider themselves to be the 'chosen people' and the fact that Israel has a massive and secret nuclear arsenal capable of ending life on the planet as we know it, gives them the moral high ground in any discussion of a possible peace with their prisoners.
Zableedofisterix, Your posts are almost verbatim what Sean Hannity spews. You need to dig a little deeper than the misinformation FOX news flings with wild abandon. Not towing the Israeli line does NOT make one anti-Semitic any more than your dislike for Obama makes you a racist. It’s a cheap FOX shot.
Like I said ibshame, I’m not willing to speculate; nor do I think it correct for anyone to blithely pronounce: ”Putin is ultimately responsible because it was a Russian missile that hit the plane.” If that were the case, the USA should be held ‘ultimately responsible’ (and rightly so) for a multitude of massacres around the globe.
This is not to give the Russians a pass, it’s just that there were just too may ‘facts’ – to soon.
Conspiracy? I don’t know and I’m not going to speculate. I just think it amazing that, ”Almost immediately after the plane was downed, all worldwide media outlets knew conclusively the type of missile, what type of mobile launcher and who did it. How were they all informed so rapidly? And by whom?”
It’s not Obama’s fault for gods sake. Quote: ”So far, I am right.” So far you’re an uniformed blowhard.
Supposition everywhere. The inability of some to stay on subject. Misplaced blame (It’s somehow Obama’s fault) and some extraordinarily childish commentary.
Points to ponder:
This was a passenger plane flying over territory despite the fact it is known that pro-Russian rebels had pretty advanced SAM missiles, knew how to use them. And have.
In just the past week or so, rebel (whatever that means to whom) SAM’s have struck at least three Ukrainian air force planes in the region — two Su-25’s, and an An-26.
Almost immediately after the plane was downed, all worldwide media outlets knew conclusively the type of missile, what type of mobile launcher and who did it. How were they all informed so rapidly? And by whom?
There is no (at least not as of this writing) any hard corroborating evidence to support the authenticity of voice intercepts.
And lest us forget:
In 2001, Ukraine’s military accidentally shot down a Russian passenger airliner flying over the Black Sea from Tel Aviv to Novorossisk, killing 78 people onboard. After over a week of denials, Ukraine finally admitted responsibility.
In 1988, the US Vincennes (A Ticonderoga class cruiser) mistakenly shot down an Iranian passenger plane in the Persian Gulf, killing 290 passengers on board. The commanding officer in charge of the USS Vincennes not only wasn’t punished, but instead was awarded the Legion of Honor medal two years later by President George (ptui) Bush.
In 1983 a Russian Su-15 shot down a Korean 747; initially denied knowledge of the incident but later fessed up and admitted the shoot down, but claimed the aircraft was on a spy mission.
Like I said, this smells.