Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
There are two parts to this phrase from the First Amendment; the establishment clause and the free exercise clause.
The establishment clause prevents the establishment of a national religion.
The free exercise clause guarantees free expression of religious belief.
These cheerleaders are not violating the Constitution in either case.
First of all, they are not a government entity. If you believe the school is, fine, but neither are trying to establish a national religion. And, neither are trying to force anyone to follow any of the 30+ Christian denominations.
It doesn't really matter who made the (verbal) complaint. It is not the place of a school superintendent to assert a judicial ruling that these banners violate the Constitution. She even said she "regrets" the decision and personally "appreciates their expression of Christian values". This is the crux of the problem, IMHO. If she just would have said, 'this has become a distraction to our educational system and extracurricular activities', then it would have remained a local community/school issue. She's the one that invoked the debate of the constitutionality of these banners.
Now, did she make this decision on her own or did some other group encourage that conclusion (i.e.; the ADL)?
I'll say again....I'm not a Bible thumper (although I was born Christian). I have no problem with any other religion - Baptist, Jewish, Islam, etc. To me, this is a question of freedom, plain and simple.
Do you want the the federal government to renounce Christmas too? Would you be offended or hurt by someone wearing a crucifix on a chain around their neck - at a school or otherwise?
Nobody is chasing you out of a football game - you are more than welcome to attend. Are you telling me that you can't tolerate a couple of minutes of freedom of expression?
You're right...this is not a "Christian nation". The First Amendment prohibits a "Christian nation" and ensures that you, and everyone, are free to practice whatever peaceful religion you choose. That doesn't mean that we should censor the the religious freedom of others.
Great question, dog. It is wrong for a superintendent of a school district to assert her constitutional interpretation of the First Amendment - let the courts decide.
You're right...America is not a Christian nation. Certainly not in the same context that we refer to "Muslim nations". Most Muslim nations have laws (Sharia Law) that require the citizenry to follow Islam - by threat of death in some cases. But that doesn't mean that America wasn't founded upon Christian values. It doesn't mean that we should abandon our history and culture.
Yes...you can pray anywhere you want but this is not a prayer nor forcing anyone to pray or pledge allegiance to any religion.
There are references to Christianity in many, many "PUBLIC", government buildings throughout this country. Our money has the phrase "In God We Trust" - it's displayed on a plaque in the capital building. The Liberty Bell is engraved with a quote from the Bible. "One nation under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance; the Supreme Court building has carvings of Moses and The Ten Commandments; we even have chaplains on the public payroll in most, if not all, houses of legislation (state and federal).
Nobody is asking anyone to "replace" one's god. You ask for tolerance - I can make the same argument. And, I to can also assert; if you don't like the fact that this country has a Christian culture - go live somewhere else.
Where does it say it's illegal? Why is it legal to have Christian symbols in other government buildings? Again, Moses, with the Ten Commandments, sits atop the Supreme Court building in D.C. Is that illegal too? "In God We Trust", "One Nation Under God", chaplains on public payroll, prayers in legislative sessions, bible verse on the Liberty Bell, Christmas as a federal holiday....are these things illegal too?
Religion is already "mixed" with our Government. But don't worry...the government will never dictate a national religion - we have the 1st Amendment to protect us against that.
What about the 3000 lost American lives, Ben? Can they be replaced? Or do you think it was just a bunch of arrogant Christians? Are you really comparing Americans (Christians) to terrorists? That is beyond imbecilic.
How do you bring W into this debate? He's gone....get over it...find someone else to blame! How come Obama bin Biden hasn't gotten us out of Iraq yet. Three trillion dollars? Obama spent that in seven months. How come they haven't shut down Gitmo? How come they haven't repealed the Patriot Act and stopped illegal wiretapping? Oh...wait...now you have someone new to blame.
I believe our current president is a "born again Christian" too. OMG...the horror! I've heard him say, "God bless America" several times now. Or was that "G-d D-mn America"?
I can't make any sense out of the rest of your ignorant rant but I know you don't want to have a sensible debate. You just want to spew your vitriol.
I know the history of "In God We Trust". But yet, there it is - still. And, the chaplain (Christian chaplain, I might add), paid with taxpayer dollars, still says a prayer to open each session of Congress.
As far as I know, they haven't scrubbed the Liberty Bell of it's Bible verse. Shhh...don't tell the ACLU.
The Supreme Court often begs to differ with itself! The SCOTUS reinterpretation of the 1st Amendment over the years is unconstitutional in itself - contradicts the 10th and the 14th. Funny that Moses still sits atop the building in which they preside.
Again, displaying a Bible verse does not constitute promoting a religion - more importantly it doesn't promote "establishing" a religion. To be honest, I don't think the school should be a federally funded government entity to begin with. But, that's a completely different Constitutional debate.
Yes. Wearing a crucifix is a personal choice, but wouldn't the same student, insulted by a simple Bible verse, also be insulted by a piece of jewelry depicting the crucifixion of Jesus Christ?
I don't have a problem with students declining to recite The Pledge - for whatever reason. I imagine such students are ridiculed for this in most parts of the country. And, Congress passed a law adding "under God". If illegal, why hasn't the SCOTUS ruled so in 50+ years?
Are you trying to say that this country wasn't founded on Christian principles or that it should not have been? The words, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", doesn't mean we should remove all references of Christianity or religion from our culture. It was added to guarantee civil liberties - to guarantee that no future president nor congress could enact a national religion and force the citizenry to follow it. People are FREE to peaceably assemble and follow whatever religion they choose or not worship at all. They are also free to ignore or simply tolerate a verse from the Bible.
I agree, the school district would probably lose if a suit is filed. It would probably go all the way up to the SCOTUS. Let them rule against the school too - and while they're at it remove "under God" from the Pledge. I think it would cause an awakening of the silent majority in this country. My point is/was, the school superintendent should not be the judge based on one individual's complaint. Especially if she "regrets" having them change/remove the signs.
I'm no Bible thumper, BTW - far from it. But, I am a traditionalist and a constitutionalist. I think they refer to us as paleocons these days.
What is this "law of the land" you're referring to? We have Christian symbols all over the "public space" (government buildings). The school is not endorsing or promoting any specific religion because these cheerleaders are holding a sign with a Bible verse! If you, or anyone, is insulted by a Bible verse, you should think about getting a life.
Who said "the majority" is AGAINST Jewish kids, Muslim kids, etc? It's just the opposite - they have a right to peaceful practice their religion.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
There are two parts to this phrase from the First Amendment; the establishment clause and the free exercise clause.
The establishment clause prevents the establishment of a national religion.
The free exercise clause guarantees free expression of religious belief.
These cheerleaders are not violating the Constitution in either case.
First of all, they are not a government entity. If you believe the school is, fine, but neither are trying to establish a national religion. And, neither are trying to force anyone to follow any of the 30+ Christian denominations.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
somethingorother-
It doesn't really matter who made the (verbal) complaint. It is not the place of a school superintendent to assert a judicial ruling that these banners violate the Constitution. She even said she "regrets" the decision and personally "appreciates their expression of Christian values". This is the crux of the problem, IMHO. If she just would have said, 'this has become a distraction to our educational system and extracurricular activities', then it would have remained a local community/school issue. She's the one that invoked the debate of the constitutionality of these banners.
Now, did she make this decision on her own or did some other group encourage that conclusion (i.e.; the ADL)?
I'll say again....I'm not a Bible thumper (although I was born Christian). I have no problem with any other religion - Baptist, Jewish, Islam, etc. To me, this is a question of freedom, plain and simple.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
Cry me a river, sydust!
Do you want the the federal government to renounce Christmas too? Would you be offended or hurt by someone wearing a crucifix on a chain around their neck - at a school or otherwise?
Nobody is chasing you out of a football game - you are more than welcome to attend. Are you telling me that you can't tolerate a couple of minutes of freedom of expression?
You're right...this is not a "Christian nation". The First Amendment prohibits a "Christian nation" and ensures that you, and everyone, are free to practice whatever peaceful religion you choose. That doesn't mean that we should censor the the religious freedom of others.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Familiar with that, Billy?
Tell me where it says we have to separate church and state.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
"adl threatens superintendent reese with lawsuits after Jewish resident complains"
Christian55- Do you have proof of this?
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
"Why don't you people GET why this is wrong?"
Great question, dog. It is wrong for a superintendent of a school district to assert her constitutional interpretation of the First Amendment - let the courts decide.
You're right...America is not a Christian nation. Certainly not in the same context that we refer to "Muslim nations". Most Muslim nations have laws (Sharia Law) that require the citizenry to follow Islam - by threat of death in some cases. But that doesn't mean that America wasn't founded upon Christian values. It doesn't mean that we should abandon our history and culture.
Yes...you can pray anywhere you want but this is not a prayer nor forcing anyone to pray or pledge allegiance to any religion.
There are references to Christianity in many, many "PUBLIC", government buildings throughout this country. Our money has the phrase "In God We Trust" - it's displayed on a plaque in the capital building. The Liberty Bell is engraved with a quote from the Bible. "One nation under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance; the Supreme Court building has carvings of Moses and The Ten Commandments; we even have chaplains on the public payroll in most, if not all, houses of legislation (state and federal).
Nobody is asking anyone to "replace" one's god. You ask for tolerance - I can make the same argument. And, I to can also assert; if you don't like the fact that this country has a Christian culture - go live somewhere else.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
"It's illegal", Ice?
Where does it say it's illegal? Why is it legal to have Christian symbols in other government buildings? Again, Moses, with the Ten Commandments, sits atop the Supreme Court building in D.C. Is that illegal too? "In God We Trust", "One Nation Under God", chaplains on public payroll, prayers in legislative sessions, bible verse on the Liberty Bell, Christmas as a federal holiday....are these things illegal too?
Religion is already "mixed" with our Government. But don't worry...the government will never dictate a national religion - we have the 1st Amendment to protect us against that.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
"I love NYC but buildings can be replaced"
What about the 3000 lost American lives, Ben? Can they be replaced? Or do you think it was just a bunch of arrogant Christians? Are you really comparing Americans (Christians) to terrorists? That is beyond imbecilic.
How do you bring W into this debate? He's gone....get over it...find someone else to blame! How come Obama bin Biden hasn't gotten us out of Iraq yet. Three trillion dollars? Obama spent that in seven months. How come they haven't shut down Gitmo? How come they haven't repealed the Patriot Act and stopped illegal wiretapping? Oh...wait...now you have someone new to blame.
I believe our current president is a "born again Christian" too. OMG...the horror! I've heard him say, "God bless America" several times now. Or was that "G-d D-mn America"?
I can't make any sense out of the rest of your ignorant rant but I know you don't want to have a sensible debate. You just want to spew your vitriol.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
Desertman-
I know the history of "In God We Trust". But yet, there it is - still. And, the chaplain (Christian chaplain, I might add), paid with taxpayer dollars, still says a prayer to open each session of Congress.
As far as I know, they haven't scrubbed the Liberty Bell of it's Bible verse. Shhh...don't tell the ACLU.
The Supreme Court often begs to differ with itself! The SCOTUS reinterpretation of the 1st Amendment over the years is unconstitutional in itself - contradicts the 10th and the 14th. Funny that Moses still sits atop the building in which they preside.
Again, displaying a Bible verse does not constitute promoting a religion - more importantly it doesn't promote "establishing" a religion. To be honest, I don't think the school should be a federally funded government entity to begin with. But, that's a completely different Constitutional debate.
Yes. Wearing a crucifix is a personal choice, but wouldn't the same student, insulted by a simple Bible verse, also be insulted by a piece of jewelry depicting the crucifixion of Jesus Christ?
I don't have a problem with students declining to recite The Pledge - for whatever reason. I imagine such students are ridiculed for this in most parts of the country. And, Congress passed a law adding "under God". If illegal, why hasn't the SCOTUS ruled so in 50+ years?
Are you trying to say that this country wasn't founded on Christian principles or that it should not have been? The words, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", doesn't mean we should remove all references of Christianity or religion from our culture. It was added to guarantee civil liberties - to guarantee that no future president nor congress could enact a national religion and force the citizenry to follow it. People are FREE to peaceably assemble and follow whatever religion they choose or not worship at all. They are also free to ignore or simply tolerate a verse from the Bible.
I agree, the school district would probably lose if a suit is filed. It would probably go all the way up to the SCOTUS. Let them rule against the school too - and while they're at it remove "under God" from the Pledge. I think it would cause an awakening of the silent majority in this country. My point is/was, the school superintendent should not be the judge based on one individual's complaint. Especially if she "regrets" having them change/remove the signs.
I'm no Bible thumper, BTW - far from it. But, I am a traditionalist and a constitutionalist. I think they refer to us as paleocons these days.
Cheerleaders’ religious signs draw fire
Joe Joe-
What is this "law of the land" you're referring to? We have Christian symbols all over the "public space" (government buildings). The school is not endorsing or promoting any specific religion because these cheerleaders are holding a sign with a Bible verse! If you, or anyone, is insulted by a Bible verse, you should think about getting a life.
Who said "the majority" is AGAINST Jewish kids, Muslim kids, etc? It's just the opposite - they have a right to peaceful practice their religion.