vreeze's comment history

vreeze said...

@ LIbertarian

The website is Catholic. After I read my post I see I was confusing. I meant to say that their sources are not Catholic. They used multiple sources to gather their info.

Do you think illegal immigrants are here on a crime spree? Are they lining up to commit crimes? research show that immigrants commit fewer crimes that native Americans. In a lot of cases the crime rate actually has dropped.

I think if you are being honest here and want an immigration policy that works you need to think about some of the things you are saying. I was hardcore anti illegal just a few years ago. I made you seem like a saint of immigration. I started looking into the issue and seperating my prejudice from what is really happening. Fact: there are 12 plus million Illegal immigrants in our country. You talk about the cost. What is the cost of "sending them back?" More than our economy can handle for sure. We are extremely inefficient in these matters. If we can't afford to send them home what are we to do. From a financial and legal angle the most reasonable thing seems to be to allow for the illegal people to get on the right side of the law. Give them a limited time offer. This doesn't mean, sign and your in. Those wanting to become legal need to submit to a background check that they can pay for. If there are any fellonies then they should leave. If they get past this step then they can recieve a probationary visa of some sort. They would have to renew once a year while on probation. When this step is complete then they can start on their path to something more permanent. During this time we also have to revamp our border policy. These steps need fees to cover the costs. That is where groups wanting to help can step in and pay their share. Ex. Catholics can help immgrants pay these costs if they so desire. They can offer English classes and citizenship classes.

I see a lot of frustration over this issue. If it was an easy fix it would already be done. I think once people start to lay down their prejudices(everyone on any side of the issue) and think about realistic ways to fix the problem then the right thing will be done. The tone needs to be cooled down first though. To me its not a liberal vs conservative type thing. I am conservative. You don't know me so you might not believe me but that's ok. I know where I stand on most issues. 95% of the time I fall into the conservative and libertarian side. This issue has to be fixed and the extreme ends of the issue don't hold the answers. They will never be happy unless there is 100% removal or Amnesty. I am not trying to fire anyones rockets here. My goal is to help cool the tone and get people thinking logically instead of emotionally.


July 26, 2011 at 10:14 p.m.
vreeze said...

@eastridge8 My post was inresponse for someone blaming illegal immigrants on manufacturing jobs going abroad. Our manufacturing jobs left for different reasons other than illegal immigration. That is what I was trying to say. One of the first times I ever drove I saw a wrong way driver on the interstate. She was an American citizen. She could read and had a current license. Don't cloud the issues . Accidents are not exclusive to anyone group of people. An immigrant is no more likely to have an accident than a citizen. I was nearly killed by a good ole American driving an 18 wheeler who wasn't paying attention. Crimes committed by illegals happen at a far lower rate than those committed by Americans. Immigrant heavy places in Arizona and Texas have actually experienced drops in crime rates. I work in the area where alot of these shootings and robberies occur. They are not committed by illegals. They are committed by legal American citizens. Most of the time immigrants are the victims in robberies. You are free to feel however about illegals, This is America. We do need to find a way to fix the system. Its not working for anyone. It doesn't help anyone to place blame where it doesn't belong. Don't cloud the issues and blame immigrants for things they aren't doing. We Americans (Not you are me, Americans as a whole group) are way more likely to commit crimes against eachother than immigrants are.


Check these facts. source http://www.justiceforimmigrants.org/myths.shtml

Recent research has shown that immigrant communities do not increase the crime rate and that immigrants commit fewer crimes than native born Americans. While the undocumented immigrant population doubled from 1994 to 2005, violent crime dropped by 34% and property crimes decreased by 32%. Furthermore, Harvard sociologist Robert Sampson has found that first generation immigrants are 45% less likely to commit violent crimes than Americanized, third generation immigrants.

(Source: Immigration Policy Center, “Ímmigrants and Crime: Are They Connected,” December, 2007, http://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/docs/Crime%20Fact%20Check%2012-12-07.pdf; Robert Sampson, “Open Doors Don’t Invite Criminals,” The New York Times, March 11, 2006, A15; Executive Office of the President: Council of Economic Advisors, “Immigration’s Economic Impact,” June 20, 2007, http://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/cea_immigration_062007.html)

July 26, 2011 at 7:02 p.m.
vreeze said...

Its always much better to have facts before jumping to conclusions that others have made. Thank you Perla for the good info.

Here are couple of other sites that have some good Q&A resources.

http://www.justiceforimmigrants.org/myths.shtml (I posted this on another article and had someone bash it as Catholic Propeganda, It was compiled by a Catholic site but when you check their sources they are not Catholic. The sources come from reputable organizations).


July 26, 2011 at 8:18 a.m.
vreeze said...

@ Rolando,

Spending, Rolando, is how they help generate revenue. They spend money at all sorts of retail establishments. They buy goods from stores. The pay sales tax. They buy cars. They rent houses.

Before you hold them accountable for jobs moving to Central America and Asia, remember it's Americans who made the choice to relocate. They have not cost us these jobs any more than Americans have cost Germany jobs with Volkswagon and Wacker. Japan jobs with Toyota and Nissan. Central America and Asia marketed themselves as a viable alternative to manufacturing American products. Also Manufacturing jobs where pushed out by us. We seek service related jobs instead of manufacturing. We would rather work as bankers, doctors, CPAs, IT professionals, Lawyers, retailers(business owners), specialists, delivery personell, and a host of other service related jobs that don't produce anything. Our workforce has been shifting this way since the 60s. Before the economy tanked Manufacturing jobs were not as desirable. Don't believe it check out what people have been studying in higher education facilities. Also what we purchase tells manufactures what we want. I work at a hardware store. I have seen what drives Americans, cheap goods. If I sell a hammer 90% of people buy the $10 Chinese hammer instead of the $23 American made hammer. We voted for the cheaper foreign goods. Its simple supply and demand. We want cheaper and cheaper goods. The demand is only met by manufactures going where they can make the goods cheaper. The govt. gets tariffs off of these imports. They love it. Free money for them to dole out to whatever projects they want. Don't blame illegal immigrants for our losing manufacturing jobs. It only clouds the issue. Focus your frustration of the loss of American jobs where it belongs, the American Producer who moved their productions elsewhere, the and the consumer who buys these goods.

Giving illegals a chance to be on the rightside of the law will not solve other problems. Nobody said it would. Lets work out a way to reform immigration in a way that allows America to have access to labor forces when we need them and the freedom of that labor force to enter and exit as needed. The families that want to stay deserve a chance to become legal. That doesn't mean sign a paper and your in. There will have to be background checks funded by the person wanting to become legal, a probation period before they can work towards seriously being legal.


July 25, 2011 at 10:34 p.m.
vreeze said...


Just asking people to think outside the political box here. I am no liberal. I have been conservative with libertarian leanings my whole life. Libertarians like John Stossell and Nick Gillespie(spelling?)have had very insightful conversations on this issue. Giving people a chance at success only breeds more success. Most of the people coming here want to work and make their lives better. With their success they travel and go on vacations, shop at our stores, buy houses, land, cars, and other goods. Why is it people think its a liberal idea to help people make better lives for themselves. It sure as heck beats people who are 2nd and 3rd generation welfare subscribers and freeloaders.

Nobody has said anything about extra spending or taxes. Something can be worked into the process of immigration reform that charge people fees to start the process of becoming legal. That will come out of their pockets not yours. Allowing these people to get on the rightside of the law will generate revenue.

July 25, 2011 at 6:11 p.m.
vreeze said...

Whether you agree or disagree with this story I hope it opens everyones eyes to the human side of this story. It's very easy to allow yourself to forget the fact that most of these people are not hardened criminals. To compare them to murderers and thiefs is not being realistic. Most of these people just want a chance at a better life. When people come illegally, they don't go an a crime spree. They come in and settle under the radar. Lots do have false papers. With these false papers though come taxes paid into the system. Most pay federal and state taxes like you or me. Probably a larger percentage than "true Americans." They all pay sales tax. According the the CATO institute the average immigrant pays a net 80,000 dollars more in taxes than they collect in government services. These are people living in poverty by most people's standards. Illegals pay property tax for the places they live just like you and me. They are not a drain on our system like so many want us to believe. I think everyone has this idea that they come here and get on the system and becomes leeches. They come in and work. They contribute. The money they spend here keeps the wheels turning. I know some of us won't change our minds. Some will shoot holes in my post. I hope some will at least think realistically about this issue. I want to leave you with this link. http://reason.org/files/a87d1550853898a9b306ef458f116079.pdf This is a chart that shows just how hard it is to do it the "legal way" in America. We need to fix our system. We need to have a way to allow people who want to work access to our economy.


July 25, 2011 at 10 a.m.
vreeze said...

I want everyone to know that I used to be a hard core against illegal immigration. I used to have the attitude "just send them all back. They obviously have no respect for our laws.What part of illegal don't you understand," Several years ago I started really thinking about the issue. I thought I had it all figured out. I am not afraid to admit I was wrong about a lot of things. I know alot of people feel the way I felt. I can see it on the news everyday. I can see it in posts on Facebook. There are an awful lot of anti illegal immigrant folks out there. I do not consider myself among the people who feel this way anymore. I still believe we should secure our borders. I believe most "illegals" should have a chance to be a legitimate part of this country. They need a chance to get on the right side of the law. (a lot of people give up everything they have at the chance to live here).

I have a challenge for those of you who feel illegals should go home voluntarily of by force. First, don't listen to the talking heads on TV as your only source of information. Second, due some research. There are many parallels between todays immigration issues and the issues of the past. Third, and most important to me, get out and try to meet some of these people. I will tell you it will be hard, especially at first. You will have to find an organization that works with them or ministers to them. These people are extremely loving but also fearful. It took me over a year to be trusted with some families. These people have something our country is losing. They care about others to the extreme. If their neighbor is hungry, they feed them(even if they donlt have much themselves). They open their houses to those without a roof over their head. I have seen children who were very hungry, save food to give their family (I am talking not eating several meals even days in a row hungry). Once you get to know these people you will start seeing them differently. The families I have met are very unselfish. They work hard, pay taxes(even with false papers they pay taxes to the govt with no chance of refund. they pay sales tax.), and they want to succeed. Check this link to see myths about immigrants:


Take a chance and step outside of what you know and look from different angles. Research how hard it actually is to have a chance at the American Dream. Find a way to meet the people we too quickly look down on.


July 24, 2011 at 3:20 p.m.

Find a Business

400 East 11th St., Chattanooga, TN 37403
General Information (423) 756-6900
Copyright, Permissions, Terms & Conditions, Privacy Policy, Ethics policy - Copyright ©2014, Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc. All rights reserved.
This document may not be reprinted without the express written permission of Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc.