From several of you:
Who do you believe in the Peyton Manning case?
Gang - You know we're seldom afraid to take a side on stuff.
Right or wrong, having an opinion is kind of a big part of both of our gigs here at the TFP and at ESPN 105.1.
And we certainly have an opinion in this entire issue with Manning and the allegations from 20 years ago and the monstrous ripples it has created in the last week since the story resurfaced.
We believe both of them actually.
This is a layered situation in which there are two sides, but the congestion connecting them in my mind is AND rather than OR.
We can believe that Manning did something in that locker room that he's embarrassed about AND that it has been overblown considering it was covered pretty heavily back in the day.
We can believe that it is a story because there are plenty of folks that were unaware of this side of Peyton Manning AND it has been way overblown by so many trying to make this a race discussion, a fairness discussion or whatever other discussion fits their agenda.
We can believe that if the worst thing that Manning has ever done after spending more than half his life in the brightest of spotlights is a locker room incident during his early 20s he's better than the rest of us AND that the after-the-fact smear campaign is pretty damning stuff after the fact.
We can believe that the female trainer didn't deserve to be exposed to that AND that she was handsomely rewarded for it.
We can believe that the story is old and played AND that it still is interesting.
That's the thing, and the discussion points of this have gone straight to the political outrage that so often intangibles us.
The difference between arguing politics and sports is not the passion, it's the belief that if one sides screams louder or uses more passion or this fact or that source, you can change someone's mind about politics.
In sports, if an Auburn fan and an Alabama fan are arguing, they both know they will not change the other person's mind.
Political debates are different, and the galvanizing sides of this have become entrenched, outraged and amazingly interesting.
That said, are we not missing a large point here? This lawsuit was filed against UT 20 years ago about how the athletic department treated one woman. Last week six women filed a lawsuit how the athletic department has fostered a culture of sexual assault. This should have been the point of the original article rather than so faux race claim about the double standard of how Cam and Peyton are viewed. (And this comes from a Cam apologist, but along those lines and keeping with the discussion, we believe you can be a fan of Cam Newton AND a fan of Peyton Manning.)
Jamie Naughright's original lawsuit had 33 claims against the University of Tennessee and Manning was exactly one of them. The Knoxville New Sentinel posted this link with coverage of the lawsuit from the 1990s. It's a lot of material, but it's interesting reading, especially down to the list of allegations http://www.knoxnews.com/sports/vols/football/from-the-archives-news-sentinel-coverage-of-allegations-against-peyton-manning-369121051.html. Among them were claims that players and UT employees made fun of her brother, who died of AIDS, that former UT athletics department employee Gus Manning made some tickets with women's breasts on them and gave them to Naughright, and that even included a claim that Phil Fulmer said something inappropriate (the school investigated that claim and found it not true).
In fact, the most telling takeaways from reading the KNS reporting of the accounts are:
* It's amazing how far we've come in matters such as this. In some ways the overly political correctness of today's society can be blamed on the under-political correctness of the previous generation. We are far from the PC police that ignites the internet morality mob, but here's the allegation against Peyton and the school's response in the KNS report on the 33 allegations in the original lawsuit:
27. Allegation: Quarterback Peyton Manning mooned Whited while she was behind him working on his foot.
Finding/analysis: Manning said he mooned a friend, who confirmed the account; he was disciplined; incident is "horseplay that cannot be prevented.''
Imagine the outrage, good or bad, if a monolith like the University of Tennessee football program in today's society rolled our a ruling on a matter of workplace sexual harassment of "horseplay that cannot be prevented."
* The only reason, in our mind, that is even a discussion beyond the he said/she said tug of war that consume two sides of a legal argument is the letter written by Malcolm Saxon, Manning's friend who was, according to Peyton, the target of the m most famous mooning this side of "Grease." Saxon wrote Manning and told him to fess up http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/02/18/malcolm-saxon-letter-to-peyton-manning/.
* To be fair, we have all seen the report from the New York Daily News http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-peyton-manning-squeaky-clean-image-built-lies-article-1.2530395, and about midway through that LONG story is the actual 74-page lawsuit that Naughright filed against Peyton after the book "Manning" was published. Here's the Manning's affidavit in that case http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25488074/peyton-mannings-2003-affidavit-surfaces-to-tell-other-side-of-the-story. It clearly presents two opposite views on the incident.
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From Jomo
Jay- would like your thoughts on why the Mannings violated the signed confidentiality agreement by telling their side of the story in the book ? was it to try and get in front of the story, manipulate the story or just they felt bullet proof ?. I just cant imagine their lawyer letting them do that ?
Jomo -
We have zero idea why the Manning's reopened the case. Especially since Manning was such a small slice of it.
Maybe they did it to get out front of the story, knowing that Manning's star was on the rise and headed to the realm of one-named sports icons.
Maybe they did it because they got bad legal advise that not using the trainer's name they would be covered.
Maybe, like you said, they felt bulletproof, or they thought no one would ever read it, especially her. (That said, if the story is true that they mailed the chapter to her workplace with "Dr. Vulgar Mouth Whited" written on it seems very vindictive and menacing.)
Who knows, in truth, and the only people who could answer why they decided to write about that are Archie and Peyton, and we'll bet everything they had to pay Jamie Naughright they will never speak of this in public.
From Chas
For the bag: Is Ulis SEC POY? If not, who? If you say anybody other than Simmons is better, I'll dope slap you. If you say Punter i better, I'll dope slap you and give you a rough prostate exam.
Chas -
This is one of the interesting discussions about awards and the importance of wording.
If it was the SEC MVP - with value as the swing word - we would put Kentucky's Tyler Ulis there without a moment's hesitation. In fact, without Ulis, this would be the most disjointed Kentucky team since Billy Gillespie was involved.
If it was the SEC MOP - with outstanding as the swing word - we would lean heavily for LSU super freshman Ben Simmons, who at times is the most outstanding player in the country, never mind the SEC.
Since it's the SEC POY - player of the year with a more open interpretation - it's a little more of a debate.
Ulis' numbers: 16.4 points and 6.8 assists per game are top shelf.
Simmons' numbers: 19.3 points, 12.0 rebounds and 5.1 rebounds are even better. (And image what they would be if Johnny Jones had some working knowledge of what a basketball is.)
Ulis is the best player on the best team in the SEC. Simmons is the best player in college basketball.
We would vote for Simmons if we had a ballot, but can see you argument for Ulis.
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From Tommy
Man, I read the 5-at-10 as much as I can without a subscription. I used to comment regularly back when it *didn't cost nothing'.
I have been trying to think of a Rushmore for your mailbag but have not come up with one until now. Friday is Seal's birthday.
What's your Rushmore of famous guys who have married way above their heads?
Thanks and tell David I love you guys on Press Row.
Tommy -
Thanks so much for the question, and you made us smile with the "don't cost nothin'" reference. Good times.
Yeah, there were way more comments back in those days, but that's part of the changing face of websites.
So it goes.
Thanks, too, for playing along on Press Row. It's been a fun ride that seems to be picking up speed.
As for your Rushmore, well, we concur that Seal landing Heidi Klum is Rushmore worthy. So too is Ric Ocasek landing Paulina Porizkova at the height of her powers in the late 1980s. Billy Joel getting Christy Brinkley to say yes deserves a mention and Jay Z getting Beyonce qualifies.
Man, the lesson here is learn to play music, apparently.
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This is a fair time to insert our Rushmores of the week.
Rushmore of sports lightning rods in the last 30 years: Tiger Woods, Mike Tyson, Dale Earnhardt and Tim Tebow. (Although Tebow's small time in the NFL spotlight makes this one tentative. There's a case for LeBron on this list, too, as well as Floyd Mayweather Jr. Also, Pete Rose is in the discussion.)
Rushmore of Michael Jordan images: We'll go with the NCAA winner in 1982; foul-line dunk with him in mid-flight; the shrug of the shoulders after hitting all those 3s in the Finals against the Blazers; the image of him hitting the Finals winner against the Jazz. (Side note: There were a bunch we left off that were really good too. Side note II: Legend has it that Jordan, one of the elite trash-talkers of all-time - up there with Bird, Ali and Babe Ruth ((Remember Ruth called his own shot and said he had a better year than the president when asked about making more than the leader of the free world.)) - saw Jazz guard Byron Russell many years after that title-clinching shot in 1998 and asked him his ankles were OK. Ouch-standing.)
Rushmore of singing couples (and yes, we wrote signing couples so MT gets bonus points and a Mocs website shoutout http://mocnation.yuku.com/directory): Sonny and Cher; Johnny and June Carter Cash; Tim McGraw and Faith Hill; Beyonce and Jay Z.
Rushmore of actors who died before 40: Belushi (over Farley), Jimmy Dean, River Phoenix and Heath Ledger. Although there are plenty of options.
Side point from the week's questions: We worded the question poorly when asking since we are all pretty aware which movie, "Space Jam" or "Dirty Dozen" is better. We were hoping to ask who did a better acting job, Jordan or Jim Brown.