The conversations were held in the winters of 2012, 2013 and 2014.
Quite aware that a frustrated and angry University of Tennessee men's basketball fan base was still struggling to embrace then-coach Cuonzo Martin following the forced departure of its beloved Bruce Pearl over his NCAA violations, this newspaper's former UT beat writer, Wes Rucker, and I sometimes would engage in a hypothetical discussion of which coach, above all others, we would want a son to play for if it was only about the coach and not the school.
On almost every occasion we settled on Martin because of his honesty, integrity and perceived concern for his players as people, students and citizens rather than merely a meal ticket to a bigger contract or gig.
Five years after his last game walking a UT sideline ended in a narrow and somewhat controversial loss to Michigan in the 2014 NCAA tournament's round of 16 in Indianapolis, it remains a hypothetical argument, partly because the good Lord blessed my family with daughters only and Rucker, though now married, is yet to be a parent.
But when Martin returns for the first time to Thompson-Boling Arena tonight at 9 (ESPN2) to have his second Missouri Tigers team face the No. 1 Volunteers, one can't help but wonder how SEC hoops might be different if the current Mizzou coach hadn't left UT for the Cal Bears at the close of that 2014 season, moving on to Mizzou prior to the 2017-18 school year.
A single quote from current Vols coach Rick Barnes concerning Martin's squad: "They are a tough team. I like the energy that they play with. They have been right there like so many of us. They are there and they are going to fight. They are going to keep doing what they are doing. What I am saying to you (about Mizzou), people would say about us."
It makes sense. They're both tough-love coaches who put defense first, offensive precision second and individual showcasing last. It always has been and always will be about the team, no exceptions.
So even as Barnes may become the first men's coach in UT history to reach the Final Four later this season, he still hasn't so much as taken the Vols to the Sweet 16, which Martin did in his third year. Beyond that, Martin posted a winning SEC record every year he was at UT, which Barnes failed to do until last season.
Finally, over his final two Big Orange seasons, his three years at Cal and two-thirds into his second year at Mizzou, Martin has won at least 20 games five times. Pretty stout stuff.
But it was something Barnes said Monday regarding what Martin once said to him about the Tennessee job that underscores what type of person this is whom the Big Orange Nation never could find in its collective heart to warmly welcome.
"My first year, I bumped into him, I think we were in Augusta, Georgia, and we were checking into a hotel at the same time," recalled Barnes, according to a UT sports information transcript. "He said, 'You're going to love being at Tennessee.' He said the people are great."
Remember, this was the same Martin who had been forced to endure a rather humiliating online petition allegedly signed by more than 36,000 UT basketball fans begging to "Bring back Bruce," because the new coach's style of play wasn't exciting enough, or he wouldn't take off his shirt and paint his chest in support of the Lady Vols, or needlessly get under the skin of rival fan bases.
Besides, it was just kind of boring not wondering when the NCAA might come snooping around again.
Knowing all this, Barnes even added: "I've got a lot of respect for him, because I'm not so sure he was treated here the way he really should've been treated. I can tell you, there's not a finer person and a finer man."
Times change, of course. By the time Barnes arrived, expectations were far lower than during the start of Martin's tenure. Also, perhaps because Martin is black, a sort of guilt seemed to slip in after the Donnie Tyndall debacle, as if the fan base knew it should have been more supportive of a good coach and great man.
One can't also help but feel for Martin's bad luck in recruiting as Mizzou enters this one with an 11-9 overall mark and 2-6 league record. His first Tigers team was supposed to have the nation's No. 1 NBA prospect in Michael Porter, but he hurt his back in his first collegiate game and barely played last season before heading to the NBA. Then his younger brother Jontay suffered a knee injury prior to this year, which meant the 6-foot-10 sophomore most expected to be a first-team all-conference player has never been on the court.
Accidents happen, but twice in two years to the same family playing for the same team is more than a little hard to swallow.
Martin shrugged off any personal thoughts about his first time returning to UT when he told the Associated Press on Monday, "For me, it's just the task at hand, preparing to win a basketball game. I don't see it any other way really."
Barnes sees all of this another way, however. He sees it through the eyes of a parent and coach.
"I know one thing," Barnes offered on Monday. "If my son ever wanted to play for him as a player, I'd want him to play for him. He's that kind of person that you'd want your son to be around every day."
If that doesn't bring Martin the kind of thunderous reception before tonight's game that he almost never received during his time as the UT coach, the Big Orange Nation should be ashamed of itself.
Contact Mark Wiedmer at mwiedmer@timesfreepress.com