published Thursday, August 25th, 2011

The Photo ID

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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BigRidgePatriot said...

Clay Democrat, I mean Bennett, does it again. He is just too stupid to see that the Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin and he distracts from the issue at hand by presenting it as a partisan thing.

Really folks, if a citizen does not have enough on the ball to acquire a photo ID do you really want them having a voice in how the government is run?

August 25, 2011 at 12:56 a.m.
SavartiTN said...

Absolutely not! That's the answer to your question, BRP, and I'm a Democrat. Even my grandchildren have had photo IDs since they were 12.

August 25, 2011 at 1:33 a.m.
sandyonsignal said...

The Voter ID is another poll tax and it is illegal. The Attorney General even told our crazy Republican legislature not to do this because it was unconstitutional. Did the constitution or wasting tax payer dollars deter the Repubs? No. They went ahead with it for it is a way to disenfranchise voters.

August 25, 2011 at 2:49 a.m.
anniebelle said...

BRP is exactly right! We should get this country back to where only white, male, landowners were given the privilege to vote. It must be nice to be as rich and unbound by morals as these lowlife pukeheads.

August 25, 2011 at 4:34 a.m.
hambone said...

Until Jan 1 2012 all you need to vote is your voter registration card.

All you need to get your free photo ID is your voter registration card.

All you need to be in the Tennessee State legislature is a complete lack of common sense!!!

August 25, 2011 at 5:53 a.m.
alprova said...

Republican legislators is key battle ground states are making their moves to attempt to assure victory in 2012. Passing voter I.D. laws is just one tactic being used to assure that less than desirable voters are not allowed to vote.

Redistricting being undertaken in 36 states currently is a means by which state legislators are selecting their constituents rather than voters electing their representatives. For the first time in many years in Georgia, the Republicans are in charge of the process of redrawing district maps. Expect legal challenges to changes being made as we discuss this issue.

In key 2012 battleground states, Republican legislators and governors have been changing election laws in order to deter voter fraud, or to limit the number of voters.

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, signed legislation in May requiring people to show photo identification when they vote. North Carolina Gov. Bev Perdue(D) in June, vetoed a Voter-ID bill passed by the Republican-controlled state legislature.

"This bill, as written, will unnecessarily and unfairly disenfranchise many eligible and legitimate voters. There was a time in North Carolina history when the right to vote was enjoyed only by some citizens rather than by all. That time is past, and we should not revisit it."

In May, Texas governor Rick Perry signed into law one of the most stringent voter ID laws. The legislation requires voters to present one of five acceptable forms of photo ID. A drivers license, military ID, passport, concealed handgun license, or a special voter ID card provided free of charge by the state. Texas' voter ID law doesn't recognize a student I.D. card as acceptable forms of voter identification and it gives people with a missing an ID only six days to produce one in order for their vote to count.

In all, 15 states require photo I.D. be shown in order to vote. 15 states require that a non-photo I.D. be shown. 20 states still have no I.D. requirements.

Tennessee's strict photo I.D. law goes into effect on January 1, 2012. Acceptable forms of I.D. are going to be a TN driver’s license, a valid photo ID card issued by any state, a valid photo ID license issued by TN Dept. of Safety, a valid U.S. passport, and a valid U.S. military ID with photo. A Student I.D., previously accepted, will no longer be acceptable as proof of identification.

August 25, 2011 at 5:54 a.m.
rolando said...

Can't have all those illegal aliens disenfranchised now, can we?

Nor should we stop the deadbeats from listing their favorite park bench as their home address.

They are all responsible citizens, aren't they? Well, aren't they?


Ever wonder exactly why the Founders set those limits, anniebelle?

They were people with a vested interest in the USA, that's why. They were in step with the times. [Women couldn't own property nor could slaves. Neither had a vested interest in the USA.]

Various Amendments [the only legal way to change the Constitution] eliminated "white" and "male" from your little inflammatory list. Not even "landowners" is a qualifier any longer.

So essentially and literally, anyone can vote in our elections -- anyone. Without limit. Democrats love it, of course; because the ne'er-do-wells, the welfare frauds, the felons, the illegals, and those on the dole for ever and ever, amen vote for them to continue their handouts.

How many snowbird types vote twice in our national elections...once in Florida and once in their other state.

These are responsible voters? In a pig's eye.

August 25, 2011 at 5:55 a.m.
alprova said...

I'm going on record and change my previous stance on this issue, and state that I am in favor of showing an I.D. in order to vote.

I've been doing it for years to vote in Georgia. In the year 2011, most all people have some form of an I.D. in their possession.

For sure, there probably are some people who live "off the grid" so to speak, and who will abstain from obtaining an I.D., and for them, that is a personal choice that they make. Personal choices come with consequences, and if that means that they cannot vote, so be it.

As much as I happen to detest Republicans at the moment, I don't want election results skewed by anyone determined to commit voter fraud, and requiring an I.D. is a valid and reasonable requirement in the year 2011.

However, states that pass stringent laws requiring I.D.s should provide acceptable forms of I.D. to the poor and the elderly at no cost to those residents. Voting should not require anyone to pay a dime to obtain an I.D. solely for the purpose of meeting requirements to be able to vote.

August 25, 2011 at 6:14 a.m.
anniebelle said...

rolando, have you ever seen actual statistics on voter fraud in this country? Obviously not. It is so rare, it is almost nil. But, don't let me confuse you with facts out there in your NO FACT Zone. I had no idea there were so many millionaires making comments on this board. Why else would you support these liars on the right. You're just another Koch sucker, rolando.

August 25, 2011 at 6:18 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Correction, Rolando. They had a vested interest in themselves. The brain trust behind the teaparty doesn't give a rip about this country, either.

August 25, 2011 at 6:22 a.m.
anniebelle said...

By the way, all you knuckledraggers out there -- the biggest voter heist in this country happened in 2000 when these black-robed nazi's (known as the Supremes) stole the election for our worst president ever. We don't need one or two voting fraudulently to steal elections now do we?

August 25, 2011 at 6:31 a.m.
anniebelle said...

Ever wonder exactly why the Founders set those limits, anniebelle? Asks poor uniformed rolando. I have never wondered that myself because I KNOW why. They were all rich, white, male landowners. Can you figure that one out? Probably not.

August 25, 2011 at 6:37 a.m.
woody said...

Well, unless the Tennessee Legislature plans on spending a lot of money for some serious photographic equipment upgrades I don't see where this is going to help anyone, anytime soon.

Wait for it..here it comes..the elections clerk is going to look you straight in the eye and say, "This picture doesn't look a thing like you." And there we will be..right back at 'square one"..Woody

August 25, 2011 at 6:51 a.m.
limric said...

Voter Fraud is Nothing More than a GOP Myth - a Con Job

One of Republicans favorite tactics for diverting attention from their voter suppression efforts is launching unmerited accusations of fraud on the part of pro-Democratic groups and individuals.

This myth isn't just tactical. It's a central tenant of the Delusional Right Alternate Universe worldview because it’s the only way to align their belief that they must ‘Take the Country Back’ from those Godless Democrats. They being the only true upholders of our sacred Constitution, these people believe with all their hearts that they speak for the great majority of Americans. The only way to square their belief that they're in the majority is to believe that their Sacred Birthright was stolen from them by Obama and his nefarious liberal super villains through massive vote fraud by bringing in illegals, dead people (though, if being dead disqualified you, 90% of white Florida Republicans would be turned away at the polls) and school children to the polls.

And, conveniently, it gives them a way to continue believing all of that stuff if November 2012 doesn't turn out as rosy for them as they're expecting. The fact that they're tuning this stuff up again bespeaks of a certain nervousness by the guys pulling the strings.

Wait till you see their follow up crusade. Teabaggers will monitor welfare offices and bus stops etc., where everyone knows liberals are ripping off votes. Let’s call it 'Operation Darkie Shield’; armed teabaggers hanging around polling places in "bad neighborhoods" to protect the constitution and prevent 'voter fraud’.

Voter ID laws target a non-existent problem - systematic or widespread fraud by individual voters. These laws, which require citizens to present a photo ID in order to vote, is a blatant attempt to further politically marginalize already marginalized populations in our country, including the elderly, the disabled, rural residents, low-income citizens and minorities.

As citizens in the Middle East are reveling in their newfound opportunities for political expression, Republican politicians here want to limit democracy with bogus voter suppression laws. Long ago we should have learned that the problems of democracy are resolved by more democracy, not less.

August 25, 2011 at 7:08 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Can't help but see the similarity between the ID photo and BRP's avatar.

August 25, 2011 at 7:24 a.m.
twharr said...

anniebelle, you are wasting your time debating with that Rolando clown. All he does is post glossed rhetoric with no facts to back up his satiric opinions; I learned that a while back. He bandwagons and tries to fit in; similar to Rick Perry, the flop between the flip. He's a go with the flow type of child. It's amusing to me because both Rolando and BigRidgePatriot continue to blog hatred on Clay's satires yet they keep coming back. I'm sure there are hundreds of wingnut websites where they can spew their venom, but again they keep coming back here. Call them nerds behind their computers I guess. Trying to fit in because they've been rejected their entire lives.

August 25, 2011 at 7:57 a.m.
hambone said...

In order to get your free photo ID in tennessee one has to go to one of the stations that issues drivers license.

How many rural counties in Tennessee don't have one of these stations?

How many citizens in these rural counties need to get the free ID?

How many of these citizens vote republican?

Just wondering!!

August 25, 2011 at 8:11 a.m.
patriot1 said...

The DMV will photograph and issue a photo ID card for elderly non driving citizens at no charge. Most responsible people already have such an ID for banking and medical reasons....it's the frauds the DemocRATS want to keep voting.

August 25, 2011 at 8:21 a.m.

"Atlantic City Councilman Marty Small testifies others collected absentee ballots without him knowing in voter fraud case" (The Associated Press, Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 12:36 PM) http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/atlantic_city_councilman_marty_1.html

"Falsified registrations become votes" by John Fund (Politico, 11/2/08) http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15189.html

“Two Democrats indicted in Troy ballot scam case” by Kenneth C. Crowe Ii and Bob Gardinier (Troy Times Union, January 28, 2011) http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Two-Democrats-indicted-in-Troy-ballot-scam-case-982948.php#ixzz1E9L6HwYr

“The men are accused of systematically forging signatures on absentee ballots at either the county office building or somewhere in the city during the buildup to the Sept. 15, 2009 Working Families Party primary. Many of the questionable ballots were filed under the names of students and some of the city's poorest residents, many who live in Troy Housing Authority apartments.

"Many are the less fortunate of Rensselaer County. A good number do not speak English as a first language and have difficulty communicating in English. One is deaf and can communicate effectively only in sign language,’ Smith said describing the victims.”

August 25, 2011 at 8:27 a.m.

Closer to home:

“3 District 29 Poll Workers Indicted: Accused Of Faking Votes To Help Elect Ophelia Ford” by Marc Perrusquia (Memphis Commercial Appeal, June 22, 2006) http://web.archive.org/web/20060723210829/http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/local/article/0,2845,MCA_25340_4792646,00.html

“Three Shelby County election workers faked votes in an effort to throw last fall's District 29 state Senate race to Ophelia Ford, prosecutors alleged Wednesday.

“Unsealing an indictment that charges the trio with illegal voting, making false entries and other crimes, Shelby County Dist. Atty. Gen. Bill Gibbons said the workers at now-dissolved Precinct 27-1 forged at least three votes, including two in the names of dead voters …

"There was an effort on the part of certain individuals in Precinct 27-1 to cast some illegal votes for Miss Ford, but I stress that there was nothing to indicate that she knew anything about that,'' Gibbons told reporters …

“The trio faces a combined 37 counts -- all but two of them felonies -- alleging they forged a variety of election documents to not only fake votes but to make it appear that two poll workers who didn't work were present for the Sept 15 election …

“The indictment alleges the poll workers forged votes in the names of Light and Kirkwood and also in the name of a third voter -- still alive -- who records show had moved out of the district.

“The election results came under intense scrutiny after Ford defeated Republican challenger Terry Roland by 13 votes in an election in which 8,748 ballots were cast …

“Reviewing that list, the newspaper found that voter Light, 70, a folk artist with a registered address at 607 Looney, hadn't lived there in years. Now a vacant lot, Light's home had been foreclosed in 2000 and razed.

“Then came a greater discovery -- Light had died of colon cancer on Aug. 6, six weeks before the election. The newspaper then discovered a ballot was cast in the name of a second dead voter, Archie L. Kirkwood, 72, who died Aug. 30 of hypertensive cardiovascular disease.

“Despite their deaths, the signatures of both voters were written into the poll book on Sept. 15 at the Precinct 27-1 polling place on Danny Thomas in North Memphis …

“In the case of Light, McClatcher filled out the ballot application while Mayo signed Light's name into the poll book and cast a ballot in the voting machine, the indictment alleges. Mayo and Otteridge faked the vote for Kirkwood, the indictment says.

“The indictment charges Mayo and Otteridge also allowed voter Markesha Hinton to vote in the name of LaToya Wilson, Otteridge's daughter. “Prosecutors also filed felony charges against three felons who cast ballots in the Sept. 15 election …”

August 25, 2011 at 8:37 a.m.

“Judge: Let's air details of fraud. Public has right, Colton says in Ophelia Ford election case” by Marc Perrusquia (Memphis Commercial Appeal, May 22, 2007) http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2007/may/22/judge-lets-air-details-of-fraud/

“A judge said Monday he thinks the public is owed a more detailed explanation about an alleged plot by three poll workers to throw a 2005 election to Ophelia Ford, now a state senator.

“Shelby County Criminal Court Judge John P. Colton took guilty pleas earlier this month from the three election workers who avoided jail time in a deal with prosecutors.

“The workers admitted to voting fraud charges against them, yet never said what motivated them to fake at least three votes, two of them cast in the names of dead people …

“In a plea deal entered May 10, alleged ringleader Verline Mayo admitted to 10 felonies, including voter fraud, making false entries on election documents and official misconduct. Mayo, 70, received the stiffest sentence: two years' probation, $1,000 in fines and 200 hours of community service.

“Codefendants Gertrude Otteridge, 65, and Mary McClatcher, 53, pleaded guilty to one felony and one misdemeanor each and were sentenced to one year probation plus fines and community service …

“The irregularities occurred in North Memphis' heavily Democratic Precinct 27-1, where Mayo had served as an Election Day poll boss for decades. The Shelby County Election Commission has since abolished the precinct, merging it with an adjacent one …”

August 25, 2011 at 8:42 a.m.

Democrat politicians who oppose the law do not do so because they are concerned with fairness. They have stolen local, state, and congressional elections (in this region and elsewhere) for decades.

August 25, 2011 at 8:45 a.m.
Harp3339forprez said...

wwwtw, how dare you present facts that disprove Democratic rhetoric! You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

August 25, 2011 at 9:30 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Yawn

August 25, 2011 at 10:49 a.m.
timbo said...

annabell..........don't be hatin on me 4 being a white, land owning, semi-rich , male. I can't help that any more than you can help being an uninformed, socialist ,pseudo intellectual, socialist , clueless , democrat , man hating, femi-nazi. we all gotta be what we gotta be.......

August 25, 2011 at 10:57 a.m.

The amount of bellyaching and vitriol the progressives spew when it is suggested someone might have to prove their identity to vote for the people who will determine the future of our country is the most telling thing here. Take a minute to think about all of the places you have to pull out an ID to prove your identity. If you pay with a debit/credit card or a check anywhere they are supposed to ask for your ID. If you want to buy cigarettes/alchohol you have to show your ID. If you want to enroll your kid in school, you have to have ID and two utility bills to prove you actually live in the area. If you want to fly on a plane, you have to have an ID. In order to drive legally, you are required to have a license. Should requirements for voting really be less rigorous than those things? The real reason is because voter fraud is everywhere in every election and this little requirement would seriously aggravate progressives attempts to continue business as usual. Remember acorn? That was a just a small example of the fraud being perpetrated here. I would bet that everywhere this type of law is passed will see a marked increase in absentee ballots. Hey, wasn't it George Soros that said it doesn't matter who votes, it matters who counts the votes? He was just repeating the words of one of his role models. Stalin said it before he did.

August 25, 2011 at 11:04 a.m.
hambone said...

When I read the example of voter fraud posted so far. I can't see how requiring a photo ID to vote could prevent these frauds from occuring in any way.

Think about it, if poll workers are forging signatures how in hell does requiring a photo ID stop it!!!

August 25, 2011 at noon
timbo said...

limerick ........I just want 1 of you socialist imbeciles call me a tea bagger to my face, just 1 . On lighter note, I don't know what your smoking but democrats invented voter fraud what about kennedy/ nixon in 1960 .
locally , good ol "it was only a gratuity " crutchfield has been orchestrating it for years. Alto Park preci nct is notorius 4 creating votes in close election. dead people vote, absentee ballots come out of nowhere , I know where all the mentally challenged, and old people ,the old people who are at diminisheder capacity in home and I'll be ok home

August 25, 2011 at 12:05 p.m.
EaTn said...

The voter id card issue is a state right-wing semi-disguised effort to solidify their control and create an issue that has never been a significant issue. Any pretense otherwise is an insult to those with any intelligence.

August 25, 2011 at 12:23 p.m.
LibDem said...

whats_wrong_with_the_world: Clearly photo ID's would prevent poll workers who check photo ID's from casting fraudulent votes, right? I think hambone may be onto something.

What people really want is a national ID card. Maybe one we can wear on a chain around our necks. We should all queue up at an office somewhere with all our papers clutched in our hands.

August 25, 2011 at 12:25 p.m.
AndrewLohr said...

If I were signing one of Mr Bennett's cheques, would he want someone to check my photo ID?

And these voters are cashing Uncle Sam's (hot) cheques. Is photo ID too much to ask? The voting stuff Martin Luther King had to deal with was one thing--and it's been dealt with. Getting photo IDs, or teaching voters to read butterfly ballots, is another thing.

limric, "the problems of democracy are resolved by more democracy, not less"--so if President Obama loses by 55%, that solves a problem? (I don't THINK a margin that big can be stolen here.)

Look, the voters, including those of us who write here, are people, and people make silly mistakes. How is the problem of greed solved by letting some people vote themselves money other people have earned? How is the problem of greed solved by multiplying regulations so potential competitors can't earn their share of the action? How is the problem of laziness solved by paying people not to work? How is the problem of health solved by paying people to be sick? Jesus was a carpenter whose approach to politics is indirect; for his welfare program, read the 2nd chapter of Ruth (in the Bible, in case anyone doesn't know.)

August 25, 2011 at 1:21 p.m.
Rivieravol said...

The new Voter ID law will result in fewer stupid people voting which will kill the Democrats. That's why Clayboy is against it.

August 25, 2011 at 1:29 p.m.
inthemiddle said...

The Tennessee Department of Safety, Driver License Issuance Division issues non-driver identification cards to State residents who don't have a valid ID card, driver license or instruction permits from the State or any other jurisdiction. The ID card can be used to prove your identity, age, and residence in a variety of situations. The identification card expires in the same manner as a driving license but does not expire for residents who are 65 years old or older. Other than the expiring identification license, a permanent identification license is issued to any person who is mentally retarded or physically handicapped. A permanent identification license does not expire.

APPLYING FOR A TENNESSEE ID CARD Locate the Driver Testing Center nearest you, as you will have to apply for the ID card in person. You cannot apply online. Bring proper identification. You will be asked to present primary identification and secondary identification. You must also provide proof of your social security number (SSN). If you have never been issued a SSN, you may be required to bring a sworn affidavit affirming that you have never been issued a SSN. Provide two proofs of Tennessee residency. Pay the ID card application fee, currently $12.50 by cash or check. There is no fee for a permanent identification license.

August 25, 2011 at 1:35 p.m.
woody said...

Say what you will, from "The Left" or "The Right", but I am merely hoping that when the next thesaurus is printed somewhere within the definition of the word "assinine" there will be a photo of the Tennessee Legislature..because as of January 1, 2012 I have no doubt "The Volunteer State" will be the only one in "The Union" where a 63 year old (or older) man will have to show his driver's license (or similar photo ID) before he can either vote or buy a six pack of beer.

Now, if that's not the definition of assinine I can think of no other more fitting..Woody

August 25, 2011 at 1:41 p.m.
inthemiddle said...

In order to get your free photo ID in tennessee one has to go to one of the stations that issues drivers license.

How many rural counties in Tennessee don't have one of these stations?
Very few but the need is probably based on population of the entire county. You may find it interesting that these are typically counties with very little cultural diversity.

http://www.tn.gov/safety/driverlicense/dlmap2.shtml

How many citizens in these rural counties need to get the free ID?

Go here and make your own judgments.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/47000.html

How many of these citizens vote republican?

Quite a few actually.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?f=0&fips=47&year=2008

Just wondering!!

You're welcome.

August 25, 2011 at 1:54 p.m.

hambone said... When I read the example of voter fraud posted so far. I can't see how requiring a photo ID to vote could prevent these frauds from occuring in any way. Think about it, if poll workers are forging signatures how in hell does requiring a photo ID stop it!!!


“ACORN's second line of defense has been that fraudulent registrations can't turn into fraudulent votes, as if the felony of polluting voter lists was somehow not all that serious. But that defense goes only a short distance. ‘How would you know if people using fake names had cast votes in states without strict ID laws?’ says GOP Indiana Secretary of State Todd Rokita, who this year won a major Supreme Court case upholding his state's photo identification law. "It's almost impossible to detect and once the fraudulent voter leaves the precinct or casts an absentee ballot, that vote is thrown in with other secret ballots there's no way to trace it."

“Anita MonCrief, an ACORN whistle-blower who worked for both it and its Project Vote registration affiliate from 2005 until early this year, agrees. ‘It's ludicrous to say that fake registrations can't become fraudulent votes,’ she told me. ‘I assure you that if you can get them on the rolls you can get them to vote, especially using absentee ballots." ("Falsified registrations become votes" by John Fund, Politico, 11/2/08) http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15189.html

August 25, 2011 at 2:02 p.m.
hambone said...

I count 24 counties in Tennessee that don't have drivers license centers. 24 counties with few minorities living in them. Most likely people living in one of these counties will vote republican. Anyone living in one of these counties that needs to get a photo ID in order to vote would have to get someone to drive them to a drivers license center.

All the more populated counties have drivers license center in them. These counties also have more minorities living in them. Minorities are more likely to vote democratic.

Who is the new voter ID law a bigger hardship on?

August 25, 2011 at 2:32 p.m.
alprova said...

L4F wrote: "The only reason you Democrats hate voter ID's is because you want the god darn homeless to vote for you!"

Wow. I wasn't aware that any of us was running for office.

August 25, 2011 at 2:45 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

AFRAID OF THE FRAUD

First, timbo warned Limric, I just want 1 of you socialist imbeciles call me a tea bagger to my face, just 1 .

Lighten up, Francis. Andrew Breitbart, is 'proud to be a teabagger.' Also, many of your brethren in arms wear buttons proclaiming the same teabagger pride. If you are so aghast at the phrase, tough.

Second, the fact that republican state legislatures across the country are pushing this 'photo ID' crap should tell you the real purpose. Hint: It is NOT voter fraud.

The Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law issued a policy brief on this very topic.

"Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare... Even for the few who view voting merely as a means to an end, however, voter fraud is a singularly foolish way to attempt to win an election. Each act of voter fraud risks five years in prison and a $10,000 fine - but yields at most one incremental vote. The single vote is simply not worth the price.

"... There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible.

"... Voter fraud is most often invoked as a substantial problem in order to justify particular election policies. Chief among these is the proposal that individuals be required to show photo ID in order to vote - a policy that disenfranchises up to 10% of eligible citizens. But the only misconduct that photo ID addresses is the kind of voter fraud that happens as infrequently as death by lightning. Therefore, it suits those who prefer photo ID as a policy to lump as much misconduct in with “voter fraud” as possible, to create the impression that the problem is far more significant than it actually is.

"If there actually appears to be a problem, can it be addressed by existing practices, or is a new solution necessary? If so, will the solution proposed - usually either a mass purge or photo identification - really solve the problem? Is the solution sufficiently burdensome that it becomes a greater problem than the problem itself? These basic questions are crucially important to evaluating claims of voter fraud, but are all too often unasked and unanswered.

I know, I know, this bit of rational analysis only proves that I'm a socialist. But the bottom line is this: making voters produce a photo ID will eliminate about 10% of the ELIGIBLE voters, the majority of whom are Democrats.

August 25, 2011 at 2:49 p.m.
rolando said...

The progressive, socialist liberal Democrats -- like ignorant, gimme-gimme-gimme anabel -- have weighed in here as anti-American...self-centered anti-American, I might add. They are incapable of seeing anyone who cares about something beyond their own severely twisted views of life here. They hate the very idea that we can actually think for ourselves without their completely incompetent views and so-called advice.

Americans -- Left-wingnut Democrats excepted -- are the most caring people in the world. We actually do things for other people without expecting a return, while those same wingnuts are in the "Taking" line. They always have their hand out, not up. That's why they vote Democrat...to keep on taking.

Take note of the mistletoe on my shirt-tail, annabel.

August 25, 2011 at 3:35 p.m.

Silly Blackwater. Laws don't stop criminals. Laws only punish criminals once they are caught and convicted. If you sneak across the border you are already a criminal. What is there to lose at that point? Besides, illegals don't do the time or pay the fee. They just get deported. Their chance of being caught without an ID check law is non-existent.

August 25, 2011 at 3:54 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

WE ALL KNOW WHAT OPINIONS ARE LIKE...

Flying Sheep Dip offered this opinion: Silly Blackwater. Laws don't stop criminals. Laws only punish criminals once they are caught and convicted.

Wonderful thought, Mr. Dip. I'm not sure what you were responding to, so let me run this by you again:

"... There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible. ... Voter fraud is most often invoked as a substantial problem in order to justify particular election policies. Chief among these is the proposal that individuals be required to show photo ID in order to vote - a policy that *disenfranchises up to 10% of eligible citizens.*

Let me spell it out for you. 10% of eligible voters - primarily Democratic voters - will be prevented from casting a ballot.

Your new law wasn't written to "punish criminals once they are caught."

Your new law was enacted to help republicans steal elections. Period.

August 25, 2011 at 4:45 p.m.
Harp3339forprez said...

Blackwater, how do you figure the majority of those effected will be democrative voters? Hambone researched and found 24 counties in TN to be without a DMV. Those are primarily rural counties, populated primarily by Republican voters. Democratic votes most often come from more highly populated areas, where residents have better access to photo ID centers.

August 25, 2011 at 5:21 p.m.
timbo said...

blackwater48....Quoting a bunch of liberal sources means absolutely nothing.

Let's do away with all photo ID's. If something like voting isn't important enough, then we don't need one to do something as mundane as driving a car, or getting into a military base, or going to other countries, etc.

You guys are so obvious that you want non-citizens to vote. All anyone is saying here is that most people can aquire a photo ID and there has to be something to verify they are who they say they are. What in the hell is the problem? Oh, yea, it would make you lose election if live people with photo ID's are the only ones that can vote.

By the way, I did a quick poll of my tea party friends. None of them like being called a tea bagger. Being compared to a gay guy who puts his testicles in another gay guys' mouth is not flattering. I know you think your clever mentioning Breitbart. Maybe you dream of being on bottom. Calling people that name is even beneath Harry Austin's standards.

I think that people should know what you liberal low-lifes are really comparing tea people to.Now you still want me to chill?

August 25, 2011 at 5:33 p.m.
LibDem said...

whats_wrong_with_the_world, You haven't responded to hambone's challenge of the utility of voter ID when the poll workers are fraudulent.

Your reference to "...GOP Indiana Secretary of State Todd Rokita (says)..."It's almost impossible to detect and once the fraudulent voter leaves the precinct or casts an absentee ballot, that vote is thrown in with other secret ballots there's no way to trace it." is puzzling. He admits that he doesn't know how much fraud or who benefits, Democrats or Republicans. He wants us to assume it's Democrats but he hasn't a clue.

August 25, 2011 at 5:42 p.m.

Requiring proof of citizenship and voter registration should be important to every citizen who is for fairness, equality, and shared sacrifice. But it's clearly not with our left leaning neighboors.

Bennett, once gain, can only draw middle-aged white men as the bad guy.

August 25, 2011 at 6:13 p.m.
dude_abides said...

timbo... you need to calm down. I think everybody here knows you are homophobic. I certainly don't want to incur your wrath, so I won't accuse you of putting anything in your mouth. How many of your tea party friends did you discuss this testicle in mouth issue with? Did any of them exhibit nervousness about your survey? I mean, I am for leaving homosexuals alone and letting them live how they choose, but I have never discussed the act you reference with anyone! Did you ask any women, or was this an all male survey? I'm just trying to visualize you broaching this subject with another man. "Listen, man, does it bother you that people call us teabaggers, since you and I don't have oral sex with each other?" CLICK. "Aha! another no vote."

Were they uneasy? Were they mortified? Do they still talk to you?

August 25, 2011 at 6:13 p.m.
Harp3339forprez said...

I've always known the term to refer simply to the act of squatting over a person on the ground and placing the testicles anywhere on the person's face or head. Never have I heard it referenced as a homosexual act. It's a way to quash a person's dignity. Perhaps that is why some Tea Party folks embrace it.

August 25, 2011 at 6:52 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

THE ANSWER MAN

Harp wants to know, Blackwater, how do you figure the majority of those effected will be democrative voters?

Because REPUBLICAN state legislatures across the nation are all doing the same thing. Do you really, and with a straight face believe, photo ID laws would enhance Democratic voter turn out? Really??

Timbagger pointed out, blackwater48....Quoting a bunch of liberal sources means absolutely nothing.

I'm not sure an entire Law School qualifies as a liberal source, but I understand that you have a preconceived conclusion and anything that casts doubt on your baseless faith is evil. I get it. Still, all you offered was your OPINION, and we all know you have one.

Then you added, You guys are so obvious that you want non-citizens to vote. This might qualify as idiotic comment of the day. I said that the photo ID law will prevent about 10% OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS FROM CASTING A BALLOT

August 25, 2011 at 8:39 p.m.
alprova said...

Bookieturnersghost wrote: "Requiring proof of citizenship and voter registration should be important to every citizen who is for fairness, equality, and shared sacrifice. But it's clearly not with our left leaning neighboors."

I hate to break this to you, but there isn't one state in the nation that verifies the citizenship of a voter. They take everyone at their word.

August 25, 2011 at 10:25 p.m.
hambone said...

There are those on here that apparently beleive that there is a epedemic of voter fraud involving iilegal immigrants.

Think about this for a minute. These people go out of their way to be invisable. They don't use banks, they won't go to the police when someone robs them.

Yet you want me to beleive that they will band together in large groups and expose themselves by commiting voter fraud.

It amazes me how far fetched thinking can be used by those trying to support their stupid point of view!!!

August 25, 2011 at 10:52 p.m.
Harp3339forprez said...

Who said anything about "enhancing Democratic voter turn out," Blackwater? I said it would most likely reduce the Republican turn out. Nowhere did anyone say anything about increasing the Democratic vote tally. You have so many talking points you've forgotten where we are in the conversation.

August 25, 2011 at 10:53 p.m.
hambone said...

I think that the people most likely to be disenfrancized by the Voter ID law (both democrat and republican) exercize their right to vote more often than those posting here ever do.

After 1-1-2012 you are likely to see a concerted effort by democrats to help their voters meat the new requirments, while I dought the GOP will bother.

So I ask again, who do you think will gain on this issue?

August 25, 2011 at 11:45 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

SARCASM, I REALIZE, IS NOT A FORM OF HUMOR

Sorry, Harp, I sailed that one over your head. You wrote, Who said anything about "enhancing Democratic voter turn out," Blackwater? I said it would most likely reduce the Republican turn out.

I was being sarcastic. I was asked why I thought the photo ID law would target Democratic voters. I pointed out that the law was being rammed through state legislatures by republicans across the country. Then I asked, Do you really, and with a straight face, believe photo ID laws would enhance Democratic voter turn out? Really??

Whether you think the law may or may not reduce republican voters is, IMO, irrelevant. I also don't believe it would reduce GOP turnout, but that's another argument.

Knocking out 10% of Democratic voters, however, is relevant, and would swing many elections.

August 26, 2011 at 12:33 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

SIMPLE WORDS & EASY MATH

I know some of you have had trouble understanding the reasoning behind the nationwide push by republican governors and legislatures - 36 by one count - to institute government issued voter ID cards. In one funny case a soldier with military ID could not vote but a gun owner with a concealed weapons permit could.

Where are all the teabaggers screaming about big government?

Those without photo ID are disproportionately low-income, minority, young, and older voters. Numerous non-partisan organizations have debunked claims of widespread voter fraud, the purported basis for these laws. A July 10-13 WaPo/Harvard poll shows Barack Obama with a wide lead among voters earning less than $30,000/yr, 58-28%.

Obama's lead, according to WaPo, stems from "overwhelming support from two traditional Democratic constituencies: African Americans and Hispanics," but the President is also winning white voters who earn less than $30K, 47 - 37%.

So let's review:

A) The new law requires government issued photo ID cards to vote. B) Those unable to get these cards are disproportionately low income. C) President Obama is still popular with these voters. D) Ten percent of these voters will not be allowed to vote in 2012. E) Ergo, republicans win the white house in 2012.

And none dare call it treason.

August 26, 2011 at 1:47 a.m.
alprova said...

Blackwater48, do you really think that there are 10% of the Democratic leaning voters, much less Americans, who really don't have some form of identification these days?

Clearly, requiring I.D. will not stop any of the the kind of fraud that may be perpetrated during an election, because there is little evidence to substantiate that people are engaged in violations that required I.D. will address.

People who vote for Republicans are going to be likely white, land and home owners, and in the upper income brackets.

So we're talking about lower income people and minorities, for the most part, but the lack of a picture I.D. is not the main problem the way I see it. The REAL problem is getting them interested in showing up to vote.

My part-time job involves conducting polls of registered voters in many states involving local, state, and national elections. The largest and the hardest group to find to get involved in political discussions on the phone in order to participate in a poll are minorities. We find them eventually, but it's a long and arduous process.

Low income people of all persuasions are disinterested as well, by a large margin. The easiest group of people we find that are willing to discuss politics in a poll, are those that align themselves with Republicans.

I think the big problem with America is a lack of interest in our electoral process. Far too many people are apt to allow others to make decisions for them.

That's what has to change. How, I don't know. It's frustrating.

August 26, 2011 at 2:29 a.m.
twharr said...

@ dude_abides, wow!! If I were Timbo I'd throw in the towel and not post anything else to this site. You totally murdered that clown. I can't stop laughing! Good job!

August 26, 2011 at 6:32 a.m.
LibDem said...

alprova, a very good take on the problem. ID doesn't appear to be an issue. The Chattanooga city election of March 2009 had a turn out of 18% of registered voters. That is indeed indifference.

August 26, 2011 at 8:18 a.m.

With a few exceptions, those protesting the loudest against photo ID are Democrats, it seems. Why is that? If everyone is required to cough up an ID, then how is it a racial issue? That's getting really old! So are the repetative posts on here accusing those who want to get a handle on the illegal alien problem of being racists.

August 26, 2011 at 8:54 a.m.
MickeyRat said...

hambone said...

There are those on here that apparently believe that there is a epidemic of voter fraud involving illegal immigrants. Yet you want me to beleive that they will band together in large groups and expose themselves by commiting voter fraud.

Yes hambone, there is rampant fraud. Everywhere! At the Jiffy store, under your house, behind the garage, even on top of the wood pile. Why? Because there are Democrats…or anyone not exhibiting Sean Hannity like tendencies.
How will the doughnut scarfing FOX news robots eliminate this un-American behavior? They will rise up like toads of the short forest, immediately implement 'Operation Darkie Shield’ (thank you limric) and they shall…teabag the evil doers into submission. Leading the charge will be the closet homo Timbo and his flag: “Tea bagging for Justice” and L4F and his flag: “Don’t Tread On Our Balls”. Quite a spectacle don’t you think?

August 26, 2011 at 9:12 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

It’s pretty obvious the Republicans are trying to avoid dealing with our country’s major issues. The hoopla they’ve created over this voter ID business is just another ploy they’ve created to divert our attention away from the major issues like jobs, the economy, political corruption, campaign finance reform, and the healthcare crisis in America.

August 26, 2011 at 9:56 a.m.

Alprova, You are correct. The regressives know their constituency is lazy and irresponsible. Welfare and a complete lack of personal responsibility have turned them into lazy mindless drones enslaved to entitlements and handouts. The least bit of effort attached to an activity they don't see an immediate result from prevents them from summoning the energy or enthusiasm to do it.

The plantation that has been created for them has trained them to expect everything to require little to no effort whatsoever. It is beyond frustrating to me to see so many people so uninterested in anything more than their next freebee. They will only get involved when those freebees run out or are taken away. Their involvement then will revolve around getting those freebies back. When there is no more to get they will all have a "come to Jesus" moment and maybe they will fight to regain their dignity and finally be able to be proud of who they are. After all the riots and looting and protests and rapes and destruction of course.

August 26, 2011 at 10:07 a.m.
hambone said...

Up until Faux News came along I didn't think paranoia was contagous. However I know now that it can be transfered electronicaly.

Remember the number one rule about paranoia.

"Even if you are not paranoid and you know you are not paranoid, that doen't automatically mean there isn't someone out to get your a$$!!

August 26, 2011 at 10:10 a.m.

Kumbaya Hambone. Kumbaya.

August 26, 2011 at 10:48 a.m.

Haha MountainL,

Another regressive saying the exact opposite of what is really happening. Are you calling Clay a republican? Who is creating the hoopla?

August 26, 2011 at 10:51 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Blackwater48 said: "The Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law issued a policy brief on this very topic. . . . But the only misconduct that photo ID addresses is the kind of voter fraud that happens as infrequently as death by lightning. Therefore, it suits those who prefer photo ID as a policy to lump as much misconduct in with “voter fraud” as possible, to create the impression that the problem is far more significant than it actually is."

You’re right about this, Blackwater48. And, needless to say the public will end up picking up the tab for this costly Republican ploy. Speaking of costly tabs and Republican ploys, I note that Florida will be forced to pick up the tab for another manipulative Republican ploy:

“Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) came up with an idea he considered pretty clever. First, he told Floridians that people on welfare were more likely to be drug addicts. What did Scott base this on? Nothing in particular — he seemed to just make it up — but Scott was quite fond of the argument.

Second, the governor approved a policy based on his faulty assumptions: those who apply for welfare benefits will have to pass a state-mandated drug test.

How’s that working out? Not well. Since the state began testing welfare applicants for drugs in July, about 2 percent have tested positive, preliminary data shows.

Ninety-six percent proved to be drug free — leaving the state on the hook to reimburse the cost of their tests.

As part of the Scott administration policy, those applying for benefits have to pay a $30 out-of-pocket fee to pay for the drug test. If they pass, Florida reimburses them.

And while the state saves some money by not making benefits available to those 2% who fail the test, Florida is forced to reimburse everyone else, plus pay for staff and administrative costs for the drug-testing program, plus pay the legal fees associated with the likely court challenge.

This really wasn’t a great idea.”

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/when_bad_governors_try_bad_ide031809.php

August 26, 2011 at 11:27 a.m.
hambone said...

mountainl, Doesn't Rick Scott or his wife own the clinics where the drug tests are done?

August 26, 2011 at 1:23 p.m.
timbo said...

dudes_abides.......why is it every time a straight person mentions a gay person about anything he is homo phobic. I only described accurately whats teabagging is. if you think teabagger is appropriate then I'm going to make up a term for you that is just as un flattering. I need to find and off-color way to describe what people like you are doing to the american public. the first part has to have socialist. Let's see, socialist something ...hmmmm. I think a british term best describes ,what you liberals are doing to this country . that term is buggery. so you are socialist buggerers. just Buggerers for short.

I hope it catches on because I'm going to use it ,everytime address 1 of you idiots

August 26, 2011 at 1:42 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Hambone said: "Doesn't Rick Scott or his wife own the clinics where the drug tests are done?"

Indeed, the Palm Beach Post seems to be concerned about the "elephant in the room."

"One of the more popular services at Solantic, the urgent care chain co-founded by Florida Gov. Rick Scott, is drug testing, according to Solantic CEO Karen Bowling.

Given Solantic's role in that marketplace, critics are again asking whether Scott's policy initiatives - this time, requiring drug testing of state employees and welfare recipients - are designed to benefit Scott's bottom line.

The Palm Beach Post reported in an exclusive story two weeks ago that while Scott divested his interest in Solantic in January, the controlling shares went to a trust in his wife's name.

This raised a groundswell of concern and questions about his health policy initiatives, especially his push to move Medicaid into private HMOs. Solantic does not take Medicaid but does business with private Medicaid HMOs. The questions are growing louder with Scott's executive order on drug testing.

Solantic charges $35 for drug tests. The main customers? People who want advance reassurance they will pass an upcoming drug test for work or parole, and worried parents who bring in wayward teens, Bowling said. Customers can have results sent confidentially to their homes, without involving their employer or insurer.

"The wellness tests have really grown. People want to come in and find out, and then never see us again," Bowling said in an interview last month.

'Elephant in the room'

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/money/gov-rick-scotts-drug-testing-policy-stirs-suspicion-1350922.html

August 26, 2011 at 1:46 p.m.
moonpie said...

I can't see a justifiable argument for not requiring photo ID to vote.

If it's a priority, voters will get them. They get their TVs, cell phones, clothes, groceries....

They can get their IDs, too.

Just because Republicans are for something does not mean there is a sinister plot behind it.

Our democracy is the most important thing we have in the U.S.

It should have safeguards, I think.

This is not onerous.

August 26, 2011 at 3:59 p.m.
hambone said...

Mountainl, Rick Scott was the CEO of HCA when they were caught up in the largest Medicare fraud case ever.

It amazes me how the people of Florida could elect this con-man as a governor!!

August 26, 2011 at 4:16 p.m.
dude_abides said...

timbo... start another survey! Ask all your teabugger friends what they think about that type of abhorrent behavior! Why does this stuff keep occurring to you? Relax and see things for how they really are.

For instance... Poll Dancers: Teabuggers who run around the voting precinct trying to plant their "grass roots" into anything that breathes.

August 26, 2011 at 4:51 p.m.

If anyone completely unfamiliar with the Democratic Party came on this site to get some idea of what a Democrat is like, they'd think you're all conspiracy nuts and paranoid. My gosh! If I hear about the Koch brother one more time I'll get sick to my stomach. Enough already!

Is Rick Scott your new bogie man?

You've made it amazingly clear that you think those in the Tea Party are crazy and Republicans are for the rich and are racists.

Moonpie is 100% on target. I've come to the conclusion from the way Democrats protest over ID on here that it's to your advantage some how to have some kind of fraud going on. There is no justifiable reason to not require photo ID. If everyone has to have one, then everyone is in the same boat.

August 26, 2011 at 5:41 p.m.

Blondebutnotdumb, living up to your name. They know they are wrong. It's just the game they have to play. It's the only way the minority can ever win.

August 26, 2011 at 5:46 p.m.
timbo said...

dude _abides......I'm gonna call you and blackwater the buggery boyz. I have told my tea party friends and they think that fits you guys perfectly. they're all going to start using it. I guess you and these other liberal metrosexuals don't care much about dancers do you?

August 26, 2011 at 5:55 p.m.
timbo said...

I can't believe it....no pithy comments from the sultans of humor, dude_abides and blackwater (the Buggery Boyz). They must be at a sensitivity seminar. Do you guys really want to get in touch with your feminine side or are just faking it to get dates?

By the way, most tea party people I know didn't even know what tea bagger meant when you liberals started using the term. I find it kind of strange that you all have an intimate knowledge of that practice when regular people didn't have a clue. Hmmmm.

August 26, 2011 at 8:17 p.m.
MickeyRat said...

Um dude, The term 'Teabagger' was originally thought of as a quaint self description by your own effing Tea Party. So, enjoy some balls across the nose you ignorant closet homo...Teabugger. Take your case of KY and give it as presents to the 'pitchers' in your group.

August 26, 2011 at 9:07 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Alprova said: “States that pass stringent laws requiring I.D.s should provide acceptable forms of I.D. to the poor and the elderly at no cost to those residents. Voting should not require anyone to pay a dime to obtain an I.D. solely for the purpose of meeting requirements to be able to vote.”

I very much agree, Alprova. In addition, the States should be required to provide mobile units to accommodate the needs of disabled voters who are unable to drive and/or travel.

August 26, 2011 at 10:40 p.m.
dude_abides said...

timbo... breathe... hey, do you teabuggers dress up like Indians when your local klavern gets together, or stay with the traditional regalia?

August 26, 2011 at 11:32 p.m.
fairmon said...

Are those not capable of procuring a picture ID capable of evaluating candidates? Why should voters not have protection from fraud comparable to banks and others transacting important business? Businesses still get had and the voter picture ID requirement won't be fool proof. Voter ignorance and vote selling and buying is not limited to or dominated by either party. Those buying a voter a pint or a meal and transporting them to the polls may now be inconvenienced by having to assist those used in this manner by having to also help them obtain a picture ID. I don't understand this being a party or ideology issue other than a consistent attitude of if you like it I don't by both parties.

There would be many more independent voters if people devoted more time to evaluating candidates and reading and understanding proposed legislation instead of depending on media sound bites and those that author articles to sell publications.

August 27, 2011 at 6:48 a.m.
LibDem said...

harp3339, a few months back I took a downtown street guy to the courthouse and replaced his lost driver's license. He doesn't drive but needed to carry some ID. It didn't occur to me that this might allow him to vote. I don't know that he's registered or would bother. Part of me says that a guy who needed help (and money) to replace a license might not be competent to vote. A larger part of me says that it's not my decision.

I too wish people would take their votes more seriously. I think people often vote against their own best interests because of some tag line or hot button. But the long and short is that it's not my decision to make. I don't have an answer.

August 27, 2011 at 9:43 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “Are those not capable of procuring a picture ID capable of evaluating candidates?”

I don’t think you or any politician has the right to decide who among the voters is capable or not capable of evaluating the alleged qualifications of a political candidate, Harp3339.

Clearly, voters may be unable to obtain a photo ID for a number of legitimate reasons. In order to obtain a photo ID from the Department of Safety, for example, a voter has to be physically mobile, has to have transportation to the site, and has to have the financial means to procure the photo ID. Not every voter has the ability or the means to do this.

If the politicians in the State of Tennessee insist upon voters having a photo ID, it seems to me that they are obligated to establish a system to assure that every voter has the opportunity to obtain a photo ID at no cost to the voter with a special need.

August 27, 2011 at 9:54 a.m.
timbo said...

dude _abides......it looks like mickey rat has been promoted to 1 of the buggery boyz. you'll ever al's live in it a world where standards and principles mean absolutely nothing . you are really brave hiding behind the computer. I wonder how many times you called someone a teabagger to a conservative's face. I"ll just bet you haven't.

August 27, 2011 at 11:13 a.m.
potcat said...

I would call you more than a Teabagger, straight to your ignorant ugly Spirit face,timboob.

I know and am friends with Gays and i've asked a lot of questions about Sex and i have never heard the team Teabagger used as a sexual term. Buggery is OLD school dumb a$$ and is referred to old men in the closet, oh, lets see, like a Priest or Republican lilly white man wanting to get buggered, i take he is a taker, such a pussy liar.

Did it ever enter your brain that a woman and man can and DO the same things as Gays.

As close as you ever got other than the missionary position , was watching PORN, maybe you should lay off the Gay Porn sites. You Filthy Old Bugger, you want it so bad,its all in your writting, you can pay for it you know.

August 27, 2011 at 11:46 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “Why should voters not have protection from fraud comparable to banks and others transacting important business? Businesses still get had and the voter picture ID requirement won't be fool proof.”

I’m far more concerned about the activities of unscrupulous bankers along with the politicians who are working to protect them, Harp3339. The reality is that unscrupulous bankers have done considerable damage to this country and our economy. Like a lot of other people, I believe these unscrupulous bankers should be held legally accountable:

“The most powerful Wall Street banks are used to getting their own way, especially with politicians, but New York’s attorney general is trying to turn the tables on them. Eric Schneiderman is digging into the accumulating evidence of massive fraud and false documentation revealed by the foreclosure mess and asks a potentially explosive question: How bad is it?

The answer could prove devastating for some of the largest financial institutions in the land, confronting them with huge new losses and maybe renewing the banking crisis the Obama administration thought it had resolved. Perhaps that’s why law-enforcement agencies, state and federal, have not undertaken a thorough investigation of the scandal—they’re afraid of what they might find. The newly elected New York AG has been obliquely warned that his inquiry could “blow up the economy,” but he ignores the scare talk. If the evidence is there, it should definitely put the banks on the defensive, for a change. . .

. . . The storm of foreclosure litigation during the past year strongly suggests the opposite. Around the country, lawyers for homeowners have won scores of cases blocking banks from foreclosing on their clients. Courts have held that mortgages or securities were fatally flawed and therefore void. Banks filed false affidavits and unsupported documents, in effect defrauding the courts. When judges asked for backup evidence of ownership, lawyers went to the trustees and found that the mortgages and liens were not in the files. Bankers couldn’t prove they owned the homes they were seizing. Often they couldn’t even establish who owned the loans or whether borrowers were actually in default. Many documents were signed by untrained functionaries who didn’t bother to examine what they were signing.

Officials in Washington at first downplayed the implications, suggesting that bureaucratic sloppiness by the banks was not a reason to intervene in the foreclosure process. But the essence of this scandal goes to the heart of capitalism—the American system of property law. The most prestigious financial firms abused and distorted that system in their rush to accumulate greater profit, with less responsibility for the results.”

http://www.thenation.com/print/article/161737/new-yorks-ag-takes-banks

August 27, 2011 at 11:49 a.m.
alprova said...

Oh for pete sake Timbo, don't you think you've whined long enough about being referred to as a "Teabagger?"

Nobody in here created the name. Those who call themselves members of the Tea Party did. Who cares if the name also happens to have sexual connotations as well? If some of you had not been wearing tea bags at your early protests, nobody would be using them to describe you.

Here...look at some proof;

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=teabagger+images&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=653&tbm=isch&tbnid=JO6BJx50rIgWNM:&imgrefurl=http://www.eurweb.com/%3Fp%3D22008&docid=P2BBCQS_3yKk9M&w=776&h=578&ei=jhBZTsihKonHgAfRp7mLDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=345&vpy=45&dur=286&hovh=194&hovw=260&tx=132&ty=125&page=2&tbnh=131&tbnw=176&start=20&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:20

http://www.google.com/search?q=teabagger+images&hl=en&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=eRBZTo7PLYHUgAeA7dWYDA&ved=0CBsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=653

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=teabagger+images&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=653&tbm=isch&tbnid=X1IVPVUg8N7ukM:&imgrefurl=http://regulus-starnotes.blogspot.com/2011/05/mighty-flood-or-tout-est-pour-le-mieux.html&docid=7dy04BFQcwQ6aM&w=800&h=1100&ei=jhBZTsihKonHgAfRp7mLDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=480&vpy=183&dur=157&hovh=263&hovw=191&tx=84&ty=139&page=4&tbnh=185&tbnw=135&start=46&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:46

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=teabagger+images&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=653&tbm=isch&tbnid=UOvCkbh_BnAtdM:&imgrefurl=http://mr-verb.blogspot.com/2010/05/tea-baggers-and-not-claiming-group.html&docid=K4ATZC7ViWieWM&w=254&h=373&ei=jhBZTsihKonHgAfRp7mLDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=642&vpy=247&dur=3540&hovh=272&hovw=185&tx=59&ty=191&page=5&tbnh=187&tbnw=147&start=59&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:59

August 27, 2011 at 11:52 a.m.
hambone said...

Has any state with a democrat majority legislature passed a voter photo ID requirement??

August 27, 2011 at 12:06 p.m.
timbo said...

alprova, potcat.... The evolution of the term does not matter. It is what you guys mean by it. I think it is similar to the use of the "N" word. Black call each other that name all the time and don't get mad. When a KKK member does it it means something else entirely, You liberals mean it the same way the KKK members means the "N" word. It is a derogatory, insult to make fun and belittle tea party people. I don't care how anyone else feels about it, I don't like it. You are liars if you can't admit that.

A little piss ant like potcat doesn't intimidate me at all. This ain't my first rodeo. Your curiosity about "who does what to whom" is very suspicious. Whenever we accept this crap, we are enabling you people to continue to feel superior to anyone who disagrees with you. I will not accept it in print or to my face, period.

If I opened every letter calling the opposition "buggerers" or the "N" word, you libs would go nuts. You are so spoiled about being able to call people anything you want with impunity.

As far as you amateur psychologists analyzing why I don't like the word tea bagger, your attempts at prognosis are kind of pathetic.

After you use that term to describe tea party people, anything you say after that is irrelevant.

August 27, 2011 at 2:45 p.m.
potcat said...

I don't want to intimidate anyone, this ain't my first Rodeo either,curiosity, you dumb Neanderthal has nothing to do with it.

Go to the hood MF and call someone the N word, you will be more than the pathtic sh.. you already are, you don't deserve to be responded to, so go to the mens porn site and dream on...little timmy...

August 27, 2011 at 3:07 p.m.
hambone said...

Hey timbo,

TEABAGGER ! TEABAGGER! TEABAGGER! TEABAGGER! TEABAGGER! TEABAGGER! TEABAGGER! TEABAGGER! TEABAGGER! TEABAGGER! TEABAGGER! TEABAGGER! TEABAGGER!

August 27, 2011 at 3:56 p.m.
timbo said...

hambone...That was about the most intelligent post you have ever written. Keep the mature stuff coming.

potcat....oooowahhhhh....the scary "hood". Golly Gee, I better not do that. I am surprised you even know what a "rodeo" is. You sure as heck don't know what an ANALOGY is. Where I come from the "hood" is kiddy time. You guys hold you guns upside down and expect to hit something. You can't even pull your pants up to run away. That was the whole point stupid, to not call people names. What a piss ant. Hey, use the spell check next time.

August 27, 2011 at 4:15 p.m.
potcat said...

Screw you, i am outside getting a 300 yr. old Oak cut down in my yard, and i am hot. I am not worried about no damn spellcheck, you got my message.

What decade do you exist in,its 2011. You need to catch up!

Go holler FAG any where, i dare you.

You thought it funny calling Dude and Blackwater Buggers, keep it up, unless i get kicked off here, YOU WILL NOT GET BY WITH IT!!!

August 27, 2011 at 4:32 p.m.
tderng said...

hmmm...it seems this site reflects the real world,it seems to be ok for the people on the left to call the people on the right pretty much any thing they please no matter how ugly or vicious.But by God if the people on the right call the people on the left a name all hell breaks loose.

August 27, 2011 at 5:02 p.m.
hambone said...

Come on timbo tell us which is it?

Are you a teabagger, or a TEABAGEE?

August 27, 2011 at 5:55 p.m.
potcat said...

Good one hambone, sort of like clay....

August 27, 2011 at 6:19 p.m.
alprova said...

Timbo wrote: "alprova, potcat.... The evolution of the term does not matter."

Well you may not think so, but the fact that Tea Party members refer to themselves by that name means everything. They started using the word themselves.

"It is what you guys mean by it."

And by what standard do you judge people who use the word? You have no idea what is on people's minds when they use it.

"You liberals mean it the same way the KKK members means the "N" word. It is a derogatory, insult to make fun and belittle tea party people. I don't care how anyone else feels about it, I don't like it. You are liars if you can't admit that."

First of all, when I was made aware of the fact that it carries a double connotation, I quit using the word. When I did use it, I was referring to those who wore tea bags on their person. You can consider me a liar if you so desire, but I know the truth.

"I will not accept it in print or to my face, period."

That's completely your choice to whine like a child. Your reaction only triggers more of the same kind of taunts. Quit reacting to a descriptive word and the taunts will cease, most likely.

Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

"If I opened every letter calling the opposition "buggerers" or the "N" word, you libs would go nuts. You are so spoiled about being able to call people anything you want with impunity."

Again, leave me out of it. I am an adult. I go out of my way not to offend people, most of the time anyway.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

August 27, 2011 at 7:17 p.m.
timbo said...

Potcat.......Mr. enviromental ,cutting down a 311 year old tree .Obviously your bothered when you and your friends get some of the same medicine. Also, I'm not impressed by your posturing .
hambone ........your lack of humor and rudeness never disappoint . why don't you try to have an original thought ever once and awhile. alprova.......the only children here are the ones that keep using that term . I could care less what that bunch calls me, but it is time someone ,holds them accountable . I made my point and got them upset .

August 27, 2011 at 8:03 p.m.
alprova said...

"I made my point and got them upset ."

If you think you upset someone, you're seriously overestimating the group. You're the only one who seems to be upset at the moment.

August 27, 2011 at 8:13 p.m.
hambone said...

timbo, after whining about being called a teabagger for 3 days and posting your description of a teabagger it all says a lot about you as a person!

August 27, 2011 at 9:27 p.m.
dude_abides said...

timbo said..."As far as you amateur psychologists analyzing why I don't like the word tea bagger, your attempts at prognosis are kind of pathetic."

Attempts at what?

August 27, 2011 at 11:16 p.m.
fairmon said...

mntl, I'm not sure what your bad bankers rant has to do with a voter validation process. I agree there should be an investigation of the banks that knowingly used false financial data and other means to make bad loans then sell them as credit default swaps. My theory is it also goes to some in congress which may be why the investigations and charges have never been forthcoming. I will be very surprised if the NY AG continues his investigation and if he is ever successful. There should be 1000's of criminal charges filed including the founder and CEO of country wide. Bank of America over paid for and assumed their bad loans which was to me a suspicious move. Fannie May and Freddie Mac were in it up to their ears. Their CEO and other high ranking management were allowed to quietly resign with ridiculous severance compensation. Sixty minutes had a good segment about how Bank of America and others had used false loan documents to foreclose and nothing has been done about that to date either.

I agree those needing assistance to obtain a picture ID should be provided that assistance at no cost to them. Requiring an ID is not deciding who is capable of voting but attempts to assure those eligible to vote don't have the results skewed by those not eligible or by fraudulent voting activity. It may not be fool proof but should help without hurting or helping either party.

August 28, 2011 at 12:21 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: "I'm not sure what your bad bankers rant has to do with a voter validation process."

The connection is fraud and protecting the public against fraud, Harp3339. Like so many Republican politicians, you seem to be peddling the idea that voter ID fraud is a major issue in the U.S., but the facts show it’s essentially non-existent in the big “fraud” picture.

The issue of "bad bankers" and "banking fraud" came to my mind immediately when you brought the subject of banking into your post. Indeed, the level of fraud in the banking industry has become so massive these days that the two words “banks” and “fraud” have almost become synonymous. You can’t think of one without thinking of the other.

Interestingly, the banking fraud issue is also an issue that the Republicans are totally ignoring. Indeed, if the Republicans are truly interested in protecting the American public from fraud, why not go to where massive fraud scenarios exist - the banking industry?

August 28, 2011 at 12:07 p.m.
fairmon said...

mntl,

You need to take a laxative you are so full of crap. I am not a republican and if you check you will see the democrats are the large recipients of contributions from the financial sector and unions while the republicans are owned by oil and energy. One reason more charges have not been forthcoming from the bank fraud is the involvement of Freddie and Fannie and some in congress like Barney Franks, Chris Dodd, Maxine Waters and others including some republicans.

I didn't say voter fraud was a major issue but requiring an ID is not unreasonable to protect against it. If it isn't an issue then why do you object to requiring a picture ID? Do you really believe it will help or hinder either party?

August 28, 2011 at 4:58 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: "I am not a republican and if you check you will see the democrats are the large recipients of contributions from the financial sector and unions while the republicans are owned by oil and energy."

Sorry, Harp3339. I guess it’s just a coincidence that so many of your posts seem to be following a script issued by Republican politicians. As for the rampant corruption in the banking industry, I believe the Republicans have gone out of their way to fight any kind of reform of the banking industry. Indeed, they did everything possible to undermine the Obama administration’s efforts to overhaul the financial industry a couple of years ago. In the end, of course, the Democrats were able to pass the Dodd-Frank Consumer Protection Act, but it could have been a lot better if the Republicans had felt any kind of concern for the American consumer, and had not worked so hard to undermine the administration’s efforts.

Harp3339 said: "Requiring an ID is not unreasonable to protect against it. If it isn't an issue then why do you object to requiring a picture ID? Do you really believe it will help or hinder either party?"

The State of Tennessee already requires voters to prove their identity, Harp3339. And since the system appears to be working rather well, I don't see a need to change the rules, especially since the change will probably end up being costly for taxpayers and create a hardship for some voters. Again, a voter has to be physically mobile to obtain a photo ID, has to have transportation to the ID site, and has to have the financial means to procure the photo ID. Not every voter has the ability or the means to do this.

August 28, 2011 at 7:13 p.m.
Rufus_T_Firefly said...

gaddafi used a gun to protect his status quo. Republicans use voter suppression.

August 28, 2011 at 10:32 p.m.

Update on the Memphis cases:

GUILTY PLEAS

"Three former Shelby County poll workers have pleaded guilty to charges they faked votes to throw a 2005 state Senate election to Ophelia Ford.

"Verline Mayo: Admitted to 10 felony counts, including illegal voting registration, false entries on election documents and official misconduct. Sentenced to 2 years' probation, $1,000 in fines and 200 hours of community service.

"Gertrude Otteridge: Admitted to one felony count of voter fraud and one misdemeanor involving illegal registration. Sentenced to one year probation, $200 in fines and 100 hours of community service.

"Mary McClatcher: Admitted to one felony count involving illegal registration and one misdemeanor. Sentenced to one year probation, $500 in fines and 50 hours of community service."

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2007/may/22/judge-lets-air-details-of-fraud/

March 15, 2012 at 11:08 a.m.
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