published Wednesday, May 18th, 2011

Prosperity

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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SeaMonkey said...

if you work for the federal government you're in that gated community.

it also helps to know nancy pelosi....

May 18, 2011 at 12:12 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

mountainlaurel will love this. Her favorite topic!

May 18, 2011 at 12:12 a.m.

along with all the other gals

May 18, 2011 at 1:36 a.m.
fairmon said...

Mntlaurel and a few more will have an orgasm over this one. It is too bad a gated community doesn't protect people from government confiscation and destruction.

Is the guy at the gate just passing by on the way to work, school or training and thinking I am going to work my butt off so I can have what they have? Or, is that a greedy look thinking of a way to take it some other way? It doesn't appear they are a kid, elderly or disabled. Maybe the guy looking in is thinking about all those jobs politicians ran off that put them working in the services industry or not working at all instead of being able to get a job in a wealth creating manufacturing job or trade?

Does shared sacrifice mean everyone should be equally impoverished regardless of the reason some are successful?

May 18, 2011 at 3:54 a.m.
JeffersonLives said...

FA$CI$TS and their robotic knaves apparently so dislike exposure that they can only respond with Misogyny. Wanna-greed trumping best interests strikes again, and FA$CI$M creeps a bit closer, displacing Democracy with each ill-informed and thuggish delusion.

May 18, 2011 at 7:46 a.m.
twharr said...

The point, you evangelical tea-centric twits, is that the haves keep the have not’s out. Prosperity can't be accomplished for a mass majority because its protected by the elite class.

May 18, 2011 at 7:50 a.m.
Leaf said...

On the one hand it seems so unfair that those with a certain amount of money are able to make more money with no work or talent. And it seems unfair that there is a conscious effort to keep the classes separate.

On the other hand, so what? As a middle class guy, I recognize that I have a more enjoyable, comfortable, and longer life than any king three hundred years ago. In fact, in all of human history, of the billions of people who have lived and died since homo sapien first appeared, those of us living in America at the pinnacle of its prosperity right now are the luckiest, no matter the socioeconomic status we were born into. If we choose to have a happy life with at least the basics, we can do so with a minimum of effort.

May 18, 2011 at 8:45 a.m.
rolando said...

twharr sez: "Prosperity can't be accomplished for a mass majority..." [Emphasis mine]

That, exactly and in a nutshell, fully describes the liberal's political position...doing things FOR people instead of enabling them to DO for themselves. [Although it does, as someone once said, get them the votes of those who refuse to DO for themselves.]

May 18, 2011 at 8:45 a.m.
twharr said...

Baseless, Ronaldo, either you missed the point of my post or you're spinning it like O'Reilly and Hannity. I'm going with the second option. I never referenced handouts or the inability for one to accomplish self motivation through hard work. I'm an advocate for the working class. I'm not an advocate of the elite who close certain doors for people who are inspired to prosper. Unfortunately, that is what's happening in our society. This isn’t a liberal thing, it’s a classism prejudice. The American dream is almost dead.

May 18, 2011 at 9:07 a.m.
tderng said...

would the liberals on this site please tell me what country I can go to where the government will give me every thing I want without me having to do anything to earn it.Where can I go where there aren't any poor people?Where all the people have exactly the same things as all their neighbors,including the leaders.Please tell me because I would think of migrating there.Unfortunately there is no such place because there are poor in every country on earth!If you think that socialism is great just ask anyone who lived in the old Soviet Union during the cold war,Life was miserable.Just ask any refugee from Cuba how great life is in Cuba for the average citizen.I rest my case!

May 18, 2011 at 9:16 a.m.
twharr said...

Who's saying that tderng? I don't think anyone has mentioned they are advocating handouts. That's not the purpose of the satire. I find it amazing that you radical rights change the debate into your own baseless agenda. I challenge you to stop watching Fox News for an entire year. I promise that you'll start thinking freely without the spin.

May 18, 2011 at 9:31 a.m.
rolando said...

Excellent viewpoint, Leaf...and absolutely correct. Kudos to you.

May 18, 2011 at 9:42 a.m.
twharr said...

Ok L4F, while you're at it lets abolish Social Security and Medicare. The retired population along with the baby boomers, who've worked their tails off for years, doesn't deserve these benefits. They didn't put in hard work and dedication. They should just work until the die. Good point L4f!

May 18, 2011 at 9:43 a.m.
miraweb said...

I'm watching the floods along the Mississippi and thinking about the housing mess that is underlying the persistence of bad times. It really feels like there is a small, isolated community of investors that have turned the "floodgates" backwards and are protecting themselves at all costs -- even if it destroys the lives of everyone else.

Colbert recently proposed a "can you look your children in the eyes" test. Might be a good test for everyone - including Schwarzenneger and Bank of America.

May 18, 2011 at 9:45 a.m.
MTJohn said...

The class war in this country is over. The wealthy won. Did you really expect a different outcome in a country whose economy is deeply rooted in slavery and the trafficing in slaves and free-market capitalism that is driven by greed?

May 18, 2011 at 9:50 a.m.
rolando said...

Since I seldom watch O'Reilly and never watch Hannity, twharr, it must be the former. I get my news from sources other than TV.

I agree with most of the rest of your response, for what that's worth. Problem is, in order for the working class to prosper, there must be work available...obviously. All of our work has gone overseas to better business environments and I doubt it will be coming back anytime soon. Our government has effectively killed that golden goose.

The American dream is certainly dying but not because of class-warfare or elitism...but because of over-regulation and extreme taxation -- in the main and to drastically simplify.

The wealthy can get just as rich -- and keep more of their money -- by moving their business overseas. The admonition to business to "create jobs and hire people" would be laughable if it wasn't so serious and pitiful at the same time. Business is doing all that and more. They are just doing it off-shore.

May 18, 2011 at 9:53 a.m.
rolando said...

Then we have fiat money. Milk is $4 a gallon, gasoline almost as much. Money is becoming more worthless everyday. Gold -- still the bellwether -- is at $1,500 and rising. $1,500!

The working class can't get ahead with that kind of Wheelbarrowful-for-a-loaf-of-bread economics. Just ask a German.

May 18, 2011 at 10:02 a.m.
JeffersonLives said...

"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." -Frederick Douglass

"In the absence of justice, what is sovereignty but organized robbery?" -Saint Augustine

"Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary." -Reinhold Niebuhr

""The forces in a capitalist society, if left unchecked, tend to make the rich richer and the poor poorer." -Jawaharlal Nehru

"We are meeting in the midst of a nation brought to the verge of moral, political and material ruin...From the prolific womb of injustice we breed the two great classes - -tramps and millionaires." - Populist Party platform, 1892

"If we define an American fascist as one who in case of conflict puts money and power ahead of human beings, then there are undoubtedly several million fascists in the United States." — Henry A. Wallace

There is an ordinary proverb for this: "Stinginess does not enrich; charity does not impoverish." Gluckel of Hameln, Memoirs of Gluckel of Hameln (1724)

May 18, 2011 at 10:04 a.m.
twharr said...

You underscored my point Ronaldo, along with adding insight. I agree with you on most of your position, however, it is an elite issue. The elite in our country outsource the jobs...not the working class. True, taxation and regulation are some of the reasons for them shipping jobs overseas, but taxation and regulation has been in place for years. At this point you have to say its greed.

May 18, 2011 at 10:07 a.m.

Just who are those snobs living behind the walls of privilege? In the eyes of every American, it is anyone who makes a little more than he or she does. It’s a perception thing. Being excluded from prosperity is a conditioned figment of the imagination. It is created and fed by the culture of consumerism which we have embraced. It is reinforced by our provincial ignorance of living conditions in the rest of the world.

We lie when we tell young people that they can be anything that they want to be and have anything that they want to have. Americans hate the idea that we and our earning potential are finite. We live in denial that we should in any way be limited in the fulfillment of our desires. It only leaves us consumed with envy and feeling empty inside. If left unchecked, it snowballs. Marketing firms, politicians, and pundits feed it, and we let them do it.

Could it be that in earlier periods, when the American dream seemed more attainable, virtues such as thrift, saving, and taking pride in hard work trumped the sense of entitlement, of being excluded, and of needing to go into debt so that no desire remains unfulfilled?

May 18, 2011 at 10:30 a.m.
twharr said...

Well put WWWTW. You make a lot of valid points.

May 18, 2011 at 10:34 a.m.

Thanks twharr. For me, it's easier to say than to remember and consistently practice.

May 18, 2011 at 10:43 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Right on wwwtw.

I have found that the energy wasted envying others circumstances could be better spent changing my own.

It may be kinda silly to share this, but, when I was a kid my dad told me "it's gonna be really hard to turn that pitch into a home run if you're not watching the ball".

May 18, 2011 at 10:46 a.m.
twharr said...

LOL!! I totally agree.

May 18, 2011 at 10:46 a.m.
BobMKE said...

I like proverbs.

"The more you have the more the Government thinks it can take from you."

"The Government who can give you everything that you want has the power to take it all away."

"Problem with some people is they bite into hope and change and keep their teeth clenched to it for the rest of their lives"

"There are only two fairs, the State Fair, and the County Fair."

"The Socialists know how to bring a Government down, but never in history have they learned how to maintain it."

We Conservatives are not asking our government for anything like the Liberals/Socialists/Communists/Status/Social Democrats always do. All we are asking for is to protect the freedoms that our founding fathers gave to us in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

May 18, 2011 at 10:52 a.m.
limric said...

I like proverbs too. Here’s one.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -- John Kenneth Galbraith

Sigh, Republicans have been on the wrong side of every issue of concern to ordinary Americans; Social Security, equal rights, civil liberties, church- state separation, consumer issues, public education, reproductive freedom, national health care, labor issues, campaign-finance reform, the environment and tax fairness. No political party could remain so consistently wrong by accident. Their primary objectives are welfare for corporations and relaxed laws applicable to themselves only.

The only rational conclusion is that, despite their cynical ‘values’ propaganda, the Republican Party is a criminal conspiracy to betray the interests of the American people in favor of plutocratic and corporate interests, and absolutist religious groups. Defined by their actions, they are – ‘Dictatorial Socialists’. ie. "Animal Farm" in real time.

P.S. I'm not a Dumocrat. Sorry to disappoint you.

May 18, 2011 at 11:40 a.m.
hambone said...

what's wrong with living in a gated community?

I can't let my cattle and other live stock get out on the road! I do let the chickens free range and some have been run over.

May 18, 2011 at 12:19 p.m.
EaTn said...

Looks like the right-wingers are out in force on these comments today. Maybe it's because they feel jubilant that most the GOP Senators voted against repealing the Bush oil companies tax breaks and resulting increase in the deficit. These gated communities remind me of when I often visited Monterrey, Mexico and their two classes of rich and poor, which is what we're headed for with the path we're on.

May 18, 2011 at 12:25 p.m.
limric said...

Insane L4F,

I (we all) used to call Ho Chi Minh, Uncle Ho, especially when we there in country. Was that perverting an American ideal? Was the Okinawa sand in my fathers boots, used to defend ideals such as "freedom from want and other things,” perversions?

Chicken hawks such as your self know NOTHING of the values built and fought for by all those that came before. And I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts, if ever called to do so, you’d cry like the little girl you are.

Libertarian? Plleeze. Don’t make me laugh.

May 18, 2011 at 12:51 p.m.

John Kenneth Galbraith (1984): "That the Soviet system has made great material progress in recent years is evident both from the statistics and from the general urban scene. . . . One sees it in the appearance of solid well-being of the people on the streets . . . and the general aspect of restaurants, theaters, and shops. . . . Partly, the Russian system succeeds because, in contrast with the Western industrial economies, it makes full use of its manpower."

May 18, 2011 at 12:57 p.m.
limric said...

Hambone,

I drive through farmland and 'fenced' pastures every day. I've been watching about 20-30 chickens grow as they peck around. Sometimes they're right next to the road. It's great. Haven't hit any and haven't seen any squished.

May 18, 2011 at 12:57 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BrainerdRebels67 said: “Along with all the other gals.”

Nice try, BrainerdRebels67. Since many of the male posters on this board like Harp3339, BigRidgePatriot, and Libertarians4Freedom are minions of the GOP’s tea party founders the Koch Brothers - who are devotees of Ayn Rand - it is faulty thinking to conclude a discussion about America's income inequality is a male vs. female thing. Clearly, the devotees of the imported Russian goddess Ayn Rand are not real men, BrainerdRebels67.

May 18, 2011 at 1:23 p.m.
twharr said...

L4F, your logic is that of a tyrant. The audacity for you to say every liberal, with the exception of Suze Orman, looks for handouts is exceptionally funny. I guess me, the liberal I am, who works for a living, has health insurance, pays his bills and taxes and help those in need is somehow un-American. One of the key components in life is helping one another through it – that doesn’t always mean handouts. You claim to be a Christian, but I beg to differ. Your so called independency of dependency is extremely illogical.

May 18, 2011 at 1:29 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BigRidgePatriot said: “mountainlaurel will love this. Her favorite topic!”

It’s a critical issue, BigRidgePatriot. Why aren’t you more concerned? It seems to me that anyone who actually cared about maintaining our way of government would be concerned about the growing issue of income distribution in America?

“. . . income inequality is a topic of huge importance to American society and therefore a subject of large and growing interest to a host of economists, political scientists . . these experts agree that the country's growing income inequality is deeply worrying. Even Alan Greenspan, the former Federal Reserve Board chairman and onetime Ayn Rand acolyte, has registered concern. "This is not the type of thing which a democratic society—a capitalist democratic society—can really accept without addressing," Greenspan said in 2005.”

http://www.slate.com/id/2266025/entry/2266026

May 18, 2011 at 1:34 p.m.
MountainJoe said...

In a Republic income isn't "distributed," it is EARNED. I guess in a democracy you can vote to redistribute income however you like, but in a Republic people are free to earn as much or as little as their talents and skills allow. I prefer a Republic.

May 18, 2011 at 1:42 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

yeah, limric..that's the way it is.......yeah..funny how democrats become more conservative when they campaign for office or reelection.....guess they think by being on "the wrong side" of things it'll help them get votes, huh? amazing how that works. let's see, obama campaigns as a reasonable moderate, then runs to the left like a jackass after he winds.... then moves to the right more after he gets his party gets their ass kicked in the mid-terms.

so the "wrong side" of things is the path to getting elected?

so, then after dems get elected they can be on the "right side" of issues..but when they run they run, they can be wrong again?

yeah, limiric...democrat control of our governement for most of the last 50 years has solved a lot of problems. keep telling yourself that.

May 18, 2011 at 1:43 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Hey EaTn, Does a poor man sign your paycheck? Does anyone on this site who works have a poor man signing your checks?

May 18, 2011 at 1:52 p.m.
twharr said...

You have me on that one L4F...you didn't boast your religious beliefs. I assumed by your postings (past and present) that you are an extreme far to the right evangelical tea-party member. Sorry for stereotyping…I do that at times…most of the time I'm right.

Anyhow, all Americans should have access to healthcare. That's a human right not a handout. That's an entirely different debate that I'd be more than willing to have with you...on a later date of course.

May 18, 2011 at 2:03 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

so, limric...when lefties slide toward the right when they run for office, or feel they need to be closer to the "wrong side' of things in order to win, what does it mean, mr. intellectual?

i guess it means we, the eloctrate, are just too dumb to realize what's best for them....

the smugness and arrogance of you leftist elitists knows no bounds.

May 18, 2011 at 2:10 p.m.
woody said...

First..I must relate that my mother always assumed one day she would live in the "Lap of Luxury." Actually, she was hoping one of her children would 'make it big', buy an estate, name it "Luxury" and put her and dad up in a little place out back with a sign over the door, "Lap Of."

Much to my chagrin, I was never able to fulfill my mother's dream down here, but she's in a mansion now "Up There."


And lastly..Monk, you are wrong once again..surprise..surprise. No one ever gets elected (from either side of the aisle) by taking "the wrong side" of any issue. It's only by telling a gullible electorate what they think they want to hear that gets them elected. After that all they have to remember to say is either "Yes sir or No sir." at the appropriate time.

Strange, we believe we are electing men and women of honor, and it turns out all they are is a flock of parrots...Woody

May 18, 2011 at 2:11 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Woody, great post, you are very wise. I have always said on this site is that a politician serves his party best by putting his Country first.

May 18, 2011 at 2:18 p.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Obama and the Dems have had the key to the gate for the last few years. Why wasn't the guard at the gate drawn as a Donkey?

May 18, 2011 at 2:21 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

whatsnottaken, Our illustrious illustrator has subtly drawn that only the Repubs (sign written in red) have prosperity and the Dem (dressed in blue) is either perplexed by it, upset by it or is really wanting to get in it. I believe it is the latter. Bob is right, a poor man will never sign your paycheck. And there are just as many rich Dems as there are Repubs. There has been very good discussion today from both sides. This thread was actually enjoyable for a change.

May 18, 2011 at 2:34 p.m.
MTJohn said...

MountainJoe said...In a Republic income isn't "distributed," it is EARNED.

In a free-market economy, income is often earned at someone else's expense. That really isn't earnings...it's theft. It might be legal, but it's still theft. That, by the way, is one of the reason the prosperous choose to live in gated communities. The perps are defending themselves from the victims.

Check out the history of the progressive tax in this country. It was advocated by the wealthy and they did so for very selfish reasons. It was cheaper to pay a little more in taxes and maintain social order, than to put their wealth at risk to the chaos that might result from a revolution triggered by disparity in wealth distribution.

May 18, 2011 at 2:44 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

MountainJoe said: "In a Republic income isn't "distributed," it is EARNED. I guess in a democracy you can vote to redistribute income however you like, but in a Republic people are free to earn as much or as little as their talents and skills allow. I prefer a Republic."

But in a Republic when it is only the top 1 percent who has seen the greatest growth in their incomes and the incomes of everyone in the middle is falling, there is a problem – and to suggest the difference is all due to “talents and skills” is wishful thinking, MountainJoe.

“While the top 1 percent have seen their incomes rise 18 percent over the past decade, those in the middle have actually seen their incomes fall. For men with only high-school degrees, the decline has been precipitous—12 percent in the last quarter-century alone. All the growth in recent decades—and more—has gone to those at the top. In terms of income equality, America lags behind any country in the old, ossified Europe that President George W. Bush used to deride. Among our closest counterparts are Russia with its oligarchs and Iran."

http://www.vanityfair.com/society/features/2011/05/top-one-percent-201105?currentPage=2

May 18, 2011 at 2:47 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

wrong, woody..dead wrong......i'll say it again....it republicans are always on "the wrong side of an issue"....then why do democrats feel they need to slide closer to "the wrong side" in order to have a better chance of being elected? i'm questioning the tactics of democrats, nothing else. What's in their heads. In a national election this always happens..always.

the 2008 election was not that long ago...obama is the classic example.

May 18, 2011 at 2:54 p.m.
EaTn said...

BobMKE-- I'm beyond the paycheck and don't miss it one bit. Some of the right-wingers on here seem to imply that there's a big intelligent boss overseeing all the ignorant workers who jump at his(her) every command, and that he(she) earns all those bucks because of superior intelligence and hard work. Well, thankfully there are few of those situations left. Any successful organization has intelligent folks at all levels that require little supervision. So why does one person in that organization deserve a hundred times more pay than another?

May 18, 2011 at 3:27 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

EaTn, Sounds like you want a coorporation/company without any structure to it at all. That would be more or less chaos. I am a nurse. Do you think that I deserve the same pay as our Hospital Administrator who oversees 5000 employees and is responsible for this multimillion dollar entity? While I do believe him to be slightly over paid, he does deserve more. And by the same token, I, as a nurse get paid more than a unit clerk because I have more knowledge and expertise than he/she. Do you think that is fair? If not, then you are the socialist I suspect you are.

May 18, 2011 at 3:44 p.m.
potcat said...

`~ Republicans are Fiscal Frauds, always has been and always will be. They have never decreased the size of Goverment and have never Reduced the Deficit or Debt. They talk a lot of BS, but that is all it is...BS.

``Once again our Congress has proved that Democracy is dead in our Country " Of the people, by the people and for the people "we are now a country " Of the Corporation, by the Lobbyist, for the all mighty Dollar"... Welcome To The Oligarchy!

`~ The Worm has definitetly turned against America. The reality that Democracy has failed in America ,Media, Congress, Military, the Judiciary, and the Presidency is they have all been bought and paid for, but come re- election time, use the big corporatate bucks to propagandize and Fear Monger the electorate.

`` We have Socialism for Corporations, War profiteers and Corporate Welfare. The Goverment has no Legitimacy. It serves only the interest of Giant Corpoations and the Super Rich at the expense of the powerless majority. They are trying their damnest to drown, strangle and kill every safety net and program the ordinary working person has.

``

May 18, 2011 at 3:45 p.m.
BobMKE said...

EnTn, you wrote back and posted inpart, "BobMKE-- I'm beyond the paycheck and don't miss it one bit." That is a true statement on your part. Now let me rephase my question as it applys to you, did any poor person ever sign your paycheck?

May 18, 2011 at 3:49 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Libertarians4Freedom said: “Tea partiers are more concerned about economic issues and patriotism, all other issues are secondary. In fact, the beauty of the tea party is that it brings Americans from all walks of life, including people who voted for Obama and now regret it! So don't believe the lies about the liberal media claims about the tea party.”

You forgot to mention the self-serving corporate fat cats who fund the tea party, Libertarians4Freedom. Was this an oversight on your part? It certainly isn’t a liberal lie. And aren’t you really stretching the truth to say the tea party is only interested in economic issues and patriotism? Clearly, the major funder of the Tea Party’s "Americans for Prosperity Foundation" has had a lot more on his mind for a very long time:

“When David Koch ran to the right of Reagan as vice president on the 1980 Libertarian ticket (it polled 1 percent), his campaign called for the abolition not just of Social Security, federal regulatory agencies and welfare but also of the F.B.I., the C.I.A., and public schools — in other words, any government enterprise that would either inhibit his business profits or increase his taxes. He hasn’t changed. . . Koch-supported lobbyists, foundations and political operatives are at the center of climate-science denial — a cause that forestalls threats to Koch Industries’ vast fossil fuel business. While Koch foundations donate to cancer hospitals like Memorial Sloan-Kettering in New York, Koch Industries has been lobbying to stop the Environmental Protection Agency from classifying another product important to its bottom line, formaldehyde, as a “known carcinogen” in humans (which it is).”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?pagewanted=print

May 18, 2011 at 4:02 p.m.
EaTn said...

nurseforjustice-- would any hospital administrator have a successful job without all the nurses, aides, technicians, administration, etc? Of course not. His(her) job is totally dependent on all those other folks. As a matter of fact, if he(she) had hired professional staff, the organization would almost operate without him(her). So if all those other folks are working their behinds off and some making life or death decisions, maybe more than him(her), why should he(she) think they deserve a salary may times that of the others?

May 18, 2011 at 4:10 p.m.
mtngrl said...

Can any of the anti-entitlement conservatives out there please explain why the big oil companies deserve to keep their subsidies?

May 18, 2011 at 4:12 p.m.
Leaf said...

Fear. That is the real difference between liberals and conservatives. Conservatives focus on the downside, liberals focus on the upside. It's good to be mindful of the downside, but if that's all that drives you it makes for a sad, bitter life.

May 18, 2011 at 4:14 p.m.
EaTn said...

BobMKE wrote "did any poor person ever sign your paycheck?" No, I worked for an organization that realized every employee was a necessary piece of the business and should share pay and responsibilities accordingly. The person signing my paycheck wasn't poor nor expected their employees be poor while they creamed off the profits.

May 18, 2011 at 4:42 p.m.
hambone said...

limric, I've lost a few chickens on the road, but thanks to a few hard working roosters the flock is growing.

Do they make Viagra for roosters?

May 18, 2011 at 5:28 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

mtgrl...big oil companies don't deserve subsidies...now tell that to obama and the democrats who are just as tight with them as the "evil" republicans....i hope big oil makes all the profit they can..good for them..but they shouldn't be getting subsidies.

"conservatives focus on the downside, liberal focus on the upside"...yeah..that's the way it is.

really...well, you have a poor example in your liberal champion, obama...he's a finger pointing, scolding, dour, big government thug who's cast a giant cloud of pesimism over this country from day one. scolding us for our past, punishing us for our success, threatening us with taxes, fees, fines and jail time. piling on debt on debt...massive unemployment, massive under- employment....he's anti-american and anti-american spirit......you libs' big brother loving agenda is about as depressing as it gets....there's nothing more depressing than the loss of freedom and the loss of opportunity. there's nothing depressing than a finger pointing socialist like obama......he's the biggest downer there is.

May 18, 2011 at 5:43 p.m.
tderng said...

ea tn,what the heck kind of company pays everybody the same? I have never heard of that company.What is the incentive to learn more or work harder? I find it hard to believe there is a company that the owner makes the same as the floor sweeper who makes the same as the supervisor.What did they produce?

May 18, 2011 at 5:47 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

gee, leaf......let's get all happy and giddy about all the fees and new taxes obama and his jackass regime have heaped on us....wow! yea!! yea for obamacare! yea for the insurance mandate! yea for the debt out great grandchildren will be saddled with,.....but, hey.......michelle's arms are toned and obama recreates so well....yea! so happy to trade all the loss of freedom, opportunity and income just to be able to live in the obama era.

May 18, 2011 at 5:48 p.m.
EaTn said...

tderng--I didn't say pay the same..I said shared in the profits; not a few creaming off the profits. Any person that would live in a gated community while employees are struggling to pay health care and put food on the table... that person is the scum of the earth.

May 18, 2011 at 6:11 p.m.
JeffersonLives said...

potcat,mountainlaurel and limric have identified the main issue that threatens our democracy, and they do not accept FA$CI$M any more than I. It is tragic so many have fallen under the spell of FA$CI$M, and it's myrad ways of delusion, misinformation and pandering to the lowest common denominator, but FA$CI$M is fueled by unlimited funding by the richest 10%, who can easily afford the absolute best in perception management and behavioral engineering. After all, they have an entire network at their command 24-7, and Karl Rove at the helm, who is the absolute best at mass delusion and dirty tricks since he was a teenager studying under Lee Atwater. Knuckle-dragging Archie Bunker mouth-breathers can spout "socialist" at our anti-FA$CI$M, but those who call FDR by that name best check to see if his New Deal saved their grandparents from hookworm pellagra and starvation before bloviating on that which they have not a clue, save for wrong ones cooked up by filthy rich John Birch platinum hyena FA$CI$T prince grandsons, whose greedmeister grandfathers and their ilk caused the FIRST great depression. We do not need another, thank you.

May 18, 2011 at 6:28 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

JesffersonLives said: " It is tragic so many have fallen under the spell of FA$CI$M, and it's myrad ways of delusion, misinformation and pandering to the lowest common denominator, but FA$CI$M is fueled by unlimited funding by the richest 10%."

Speaking of fa$cism, prosperity, gated communities and the fraying of our society, a Huff blogger had some interesting things to say today about the GOP’s tea party goddess:

". . . Ayn Rand's world is one without community, a place where rugged individuals achieve success all on their own. Rand is therefore blind to the societal infrastructure that makes the accumulation of wealth possible and makes a polity stable enough for an economy to function.

I would suggest that the logical outcome of Rand's philosophy is a fractured world, where the wealthy pay paramilitary forces to protect them in their gated communities.

It is a world not of some ideal, free market competition, but one in which the absence of regulations leads to monopolization, the further concentration of wealth, and the breakdown of consumer protections. And in that sort of world, the production of wealth becomes more difficult, even for the wealthy.

As trite as the phrase has become, it does take a village. Individual success and triumph often requires individual initiative and perseverance, but it also depends upon so much else and so many other people to create and maintain the foundations of a stable society.

Rand's lone individual is an illusion that must be challenged, not only because it is a lie, but because it will never work, at least not in the long run. If Ron and Rand Paul and the like achieve their goals, we will not see renewed prosperity, but rather the fraying of our society and economy, as healthcare and then education and then even fire and police protection become privatized. The inequalities of opportunity will only grow, and the dream of American mobility, already not as realistic a dream as many people imagine, will become a genuine fantasy."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-krinsky/ayn-rand-politics_b_863395.html

May 18, 2011 at 7:18 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Hey JeffersonLives, Hilter saved your grandparents and everyone else. After the war all of FDR's new Status programs stayed and are still with us today causing problems. These problems are like a religion to the Greatest Generation.

As far as raising taxes, a majority of people say "tax everyone who makes a dollar more than me and don't raise taxes on my employer because I don't want to be laid off or have the company move."

May 18, 2011 at 7:38 p.m.
dude_abides said...

JeffersonLives... Platinum hyena fascist prince grandsons? I love it. Those are Morrison grade lyrics.

May 18, 2011 at 8:15 p.m.
limric said...

My wife said I came home (not a gated community) a bit cranky. It wondered why that was. I then dawned on me. (I’m a little slow) It was the incessant sound of chicken hawks. When I shook my head I understood the true meaning of L4F’s statement. Quote: “ You're full of crap, liberals rarely join the military unless somebody draft their asses. Yet in spite of that, we don't need no stinking communist draft because we have plenty of patriotic VOLUNTEERS who join because they love their country and want to do something better than taking Introduction to Environmental Science in college."

You do know (no you don’t) that is a direct attack on your father (if you even have one) and the patriotism of millions who built and fought (repetitive aren’t I) so you have an opportunity to bash the likes of me. It is so profoundly un- American as to group it with Brown Shirts, the KKK, Skin Heads and the Taliban. “We don't need no stinking communist draft because we have plenty of patriotic VOLUNTEERS.” We’ve always had volunteers, of every stripe. Ever hear of the Minute Men?

– except you…coward…Punk.

May 18, 2011 at 8:25 p.m.
fairmon said...

So many philosophers but no viable solutions. The democrats promise everything for everybody but no way to pay for it. The republicans talk about reducing spending but they are still way short of what is required and they don't dare cut out oil company subsidies. So I have to pay more for gas, but the subsidies anyway. No one philosophizing here has described a way to produce more in America thus employing more people.

When you run off numerous wealth creating manufacturing businesses and replace those jobs with service industries, fast food and tourism and record government hiring the average wage doesn't improve. The 1% isn't the problem it is the 49% that take and never give. It is a government created problem. I noticed one comment that said health care was a right. That is not true and neither is food clothing and shelter a right but it is a humane thing that we all assure people have an opportunity to acquire those things. It is humane to provide the disabled, elderly and children all they need for a comfortable life.

Morals cannot be dictated or legislated. The whole tax and welfare system is broken beyond repair. There is too much intervention and centralization. People at the local and state level are much more efficient and utilize the money better than a too big to manage bloated federal government.

Once a program is put in place politicians never consider ending it and only look to expand it. Social security and medicare are antiques and should be phased out. The federal department of education is one of the biggest waste of money in government. The department of energy is constructing multiple new office complexes with less effectiveness toward energy independence than we have ever had. Check out the number of "Czars" added in just the last few years.

Both of the vote pandering, lobbyist prostituted, second generation politicians and way too many lawyers make me sick.

Mntlaurel and the bleeding hearts that insist the federal government intervene and favor or punish as they see fit are the problem. The more you tell me about Kock and the more research I have done as a result the more I think I am in agreement with him.

Buffet, Warren-democrat (one of richest in the world) Soros, George-democrat (same league with Buffet) Gates, Bill-democrat and equal in wealth to the other two. Over 60% of the under the radar "big money" owners of seats on the exchanges on Wall St.-democrats.

Mntlaurel could it be some folks are being had? Take all their money and the debt isn't even dented. So, why not just take it and spread it around. Even better, quit running employers off and let people earn more and acquire things they decide, not what the government requires them to buy.

May 18, 2011 at 8:49 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Dude_abide said: "JeffersonLives... Platinum hyena fascist prince grandsons? I love it."

Me too, dude_abides. JeffersonLives's "hookworm" imagery was also a nice touch.

May 18, 2011 at 8:57 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

On searching for the supposed benefits of higher inequality . . .

“There are a number of ways that increasing concentrations of income and wealth could lead to lower income and earnings among non‐affluent households.

One way concerns the consumption and savings/investment behavior of rich households. If the rich spend a larger portion of their income on luxury items, imports, foreign travel, or in other ways that do little to boost domestic aggregate demand, then concentrating more income in fewer hands could undermine local and regional economies. . .

Also, the rich save considerable portions of their income. In fact, on average the affluent are the only savers, as average worth is negative below the 80th percentile of the income distribution. Saving, however, is international. When affluent households invest in stocks, bonds, and privately‐held corporations in other states or countries, there is no obvious way that the savings of the rich boost a particular state or local economy. . .

Ultimately, the basic economic behavior of the rich may not be consistent with the broad‐based prosperity experienced in the US in the post‐war period, and the return to pre‐Great Depression levels of concentrations of income could be steadily undermining the economic conditions that supported rising incomes for low and middle‐income households for so many decades. . .

The location decisions of rich households could also further undermine income and earnings of low and middle‐income households. In the early 1990s former labor secretary Robert Reich (1991) coined the phrase the “secession of the successful” to describe affluent household retreating from and withdrawing support for public institutions. Reich described affluent households, ensconced in gated communities and sending their kids to private schools, increasingly opposed to paying for public services. . .

This segregation further undermines the tax base in lower‐income communities making it harder to afford schools and other local public services. When communities become less safe and less able to educate their children, then the lower and middle‐income families in those communities can expect their economic prospects, including their earnings and their incomes, to diminish.”

http://www.peri.umass.edu/fileadmin/pdf/working_papers/working_papers_251-300/WP258.pdf

Searching for the Supposed Benefits of Higher Inequality: Impacts of Rising Top Shares on the Standard of Living of Low and Middle-Income Families [Jeffrey Thompson & Elias Leight]

May 18, 2011 at 9:07 p.m.
dude_abides said...

So Santorum says McCain doesn't understand about "enhanced interrogation?" That pencil necked, head up Christ's ass, comb over candidate thinks he has the right to impugn a man who spent 5-6 years in a prisoner of war camp and refused to be released before other prisoners who had been there longer? Santorum is chickenhawkus prima facie. The treatment of the likes of McCain and Max Cleland by these suits is proof that the republikan party and the tea baggers (same crap) are not true Americans, but pretenders who want to use the patriotism of the middle class against them. Just like the family values joke, they wave the flag and then throw it on the ground when nobody's looking. Look at how we treated the wounded soldiers at Walter Reed. No matter how many times you pigs try to be thoughtful and well researched, I will always see straight through to your wicked selfish lying core. Trashing Cleland... bunch of Eric Rudolphs.

May 18, 2011 at 9:18 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

you're an idiot, dude...just a democrat party hack....you libs have been bashing the military for decades and decades.....hurting them by disrespecting them..finding ways for those overseas to not have their votes counted......when bush was in office the military is no good, when obama is in there t hey're fine......your indignation is a joke.....

May 18, 2011 at 10:11 p.m.
hambone said...

limric, No need to reply to L5F after working hour. He has gone home and you won't here from him till morning.

May 18, 2011 at 10:22 p.m.

mountl click the info button and sit down and shut up.

May 18, 2011 at 10:51 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Potcat said: “We have Socialism for Corporations, War profiteers and Corporate Welfare. The Goverment has no Legitimacy. It serves only the interest of Giant Corpoations and the Super Rich .”

Indeed, in a banana republic the members of the legislature are typically for sale to the highest bidder and are showcased before the public after they've been purchased primarily to rubber stamp a matter that has already been decided by their new masters.

May 18, 2011 at 11 p.m.
dude_abides said...

I believed Bush when he said we'd get those who brought the buildings down, Seamonkey, and he lied. It took Obama to get it done 10 long years later! It's not indignation you see, you never ending fountain of oral flatulence, it's revulsion. I'm gonna enjoy watching your bigoted, backward world slip away from you. All mouth, just like your Texas cheerleader president (the biggest doofus to ever hold the office). It's sooo funny that Obama is surpassing the self titled "war president" at his own game. Imagine all we're going to get done before his second term is over.

May 18, 2011 at 11:01 p.m.

One thing that sometimes gets overlooked in “everyone gets what they deserve” vs. “some get less because others get more” debate about income and wealth is the fact that markets are fluid. They change over time.

People who move up the socio-economic ladder tend to make wise decisions in adjusting to changes in the markets. They may be lazy or uneducated, but they happen to know how to make resources work for them. Those whose economic condition declines or remains static often don’t notice the changes; or they deny that significant, yet alterable changes are occurring; or they convince themselves that they are powerless to make the necessary adjustments and therefore wait for someone to do it for them.

Some people succeed or fail due to dumb luck. Some are privileged to be born into families (regardless of income) that make wise economic decisions, so the children learn sound habits when it comes to earning, using, saving, and investing resources. Others are not as fortunate and imitate the bad financial decisions made by irresponsible adults in their lives. Sometimes risks pay off, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes people learn from their mistakes, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes catastrophe strikes such that downsizing becomes the only real option. Usually, it is some combination of these factors.

The idea that free markets are automatically just in rewarding effort and skill, and punishing lack of effort and skill is simplistic. So is the idea that the reason many people lose or never seem to move ahead economically is because evil, cold-hearted misers have launched a diabolical plot to horde all available resources for themselves, stubbornly refusing to surrender or share them voluntarily. Both ideas are fairy tales. They make good Disney movies, but they are killing us when we turn them into policy.

Goodnight.

May 18, 2011 at 11:07 p.m.

after reading limeric, dude, mountl, and all other lib anti americans, I now put my worth behind monkey. When you people start to down vets who died and went to pow prisons for you chicken shts you are not worthy of considerATION of real americans. Your right monkey, dems are repulsive and I am changing my party to republican.

May 18, 2011 at 11:32 p.m.
fairmon said...

Nevada just became the third state to receive a waver from Obamacare. Three states, unions including the teachers union and thousands of businesses have received exemptions from Obama care. Individuals and small business don't have a senate majority leader like Harry Reid to help them get a waiver. Each waiver increases the cost to the rest of us idiots.

Mntlaurel are you among those exempt from Obama care? If so will you be objecting since that will mean you won't be helping sustain the program for those that you insist have a right to free health care paid for by the rest of us? Do you agree with millions being exempt while others are forced to buy health care like the government dictates. Why can I not continue carrying only catastrophic coverage for expenses over $10,000 dollars at a low premium instead of the Cadillac plan the government requires?

Your references to articles and writings explain why you are so far out in left field and refuse to accept economic realities. Why do you think so many lottery winners of millions wind up broke in a short time? why do athletes paid millions wind up on charity after their playing days end? Of course the government and many blame the league and owners not the idiot that blew it all. Why is neither party trying to understand the loss of good paying American jobs and acting to reverse that trend? The reason is they prefer a dependent society and do things to assure more and more are hooked on government welfare. There is a hell of a difference in regulations that protect people from abuse and intervening in matters that are not intended to be in the federal government domain. You insist there is an inequity in income distribution, of course there is when the government destroys the opportunity for people to earn a decent income. Yes some managers are over paid and there should be regulations that address that but that is not the problem. Why does congress and the administration keep adding to the 70,000 pages of IRS regulations in ways that show favor to some and punish others?

May 19, 2011 at 12:52 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Gated by government: regulations, taxes, subsidies, complications. Support the Institute for Justice )www.ij.org) in getting rid of some government nonsense.

May 19, 2011 at 6:28 a.m.
SeaSmokie59er said...

I'm a government employee and I can afford to live in a gated community because your hatred for the President is my job security. Thanks SeaMonkey, your buying my house and putting my daughter thru GPS. BTW - Tell us what you think of the President and don't hold back, I want to take the family on a cruise.

May 19, 2011 at 7:48 a.m.
dude_abides said...

brainerd, at first I thought I would ask you to reread my posts about our veterans, but when I read that you're putting your "worth" behind Seamonkey, I realized it's a lost cause. So you're gonna switch from right to far right? Put some clothes on, for Christ's sake. Even better, wrap yourself in a flag.

May 19, 2011 at 8:33 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

seasmokie...hatred....? no, dumb ass...it's not hatred...i have tons of legitimate reasons for criticizing obama.....he's a disaster. whenever anyone who isn't a liberal lashes into a politician that you libs back, you call it hatred...i hate what he stands for, i hate the way he disrespects the constitution, i hate his marxist approach...that's what i hate...i could go on, but i have things to do. you and other libs on here continue to call it hate and call me a racist....but, you're just morons......there's no reason to hate him, but there's plenty to hate regarding his positions and the damage they've done and will do. you're claims that i'm a hater and a racist are worthless..and make no sense given i'd support herman cain for president.....also, j.c. watts, tim scott, alan west and condoleeza rice... would do well too..and would have my support........you just like calling someone a hater because they don't back down to you......

my hatred for obama is your job security?...sorry, that makes no sense.

dude...you're a hack..a democrat party hack......obama is not responsible for any success regarding the war on terror....all he had to do, and he had no choice, was continue what bush put in place, a strong intel and more support for our military....bush just allowed the cia and the military to do what they do best...obama needs to do the same..

"the war game"..?..it's not something to "surpass"...it's just something that has to be done.....you libs made bush out to be a lunatic warrior.....dumb ass..

you libs blasted bush and accused him of going to war unilaterly, which is bull****....a total lie....but, then you jump up and down and makes asses out of yourself when obama goes in unilaterly to get bin laden. double standard.

you blast bush for iraq and afghanistan..but are mute regarding obama's military action in lybia.......huge double standard...

May 19, 2011 at 10:03 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.” [Louis Brandeis – Supreme Court Justice]

May 19, 2011 at 11:19 a.m.
dude_abides said...

It must really chap your racist a$$ to see Obama succeed where Bush fell on his face, Seamonkey. I mean like the LAST thing you wanted to happen transpired. Mission Occomplished!

May 19, 2011 at 10:33 p.m.
SeaSmokie59er said...

Monkey wrote : "my hatred for obama is your job security?...sorry, that makes no sense."

In '96 and '07 when Clinton and Bush attended the graduation ceremony at the Coast Guard Academy the security detail was the basic SS outfit. This year we had a lot more guys there for obvious reason. To make a long story short I get paid extra to do POTUS security which more than doubles my military basic pay. And Internet 'chatter' is one factor that determines what level of threat is assessed to an event. Words like: hate, racist, blast, Marxist, war, etc are all buzz- words, that when uses with the president's name determine the posture. So I say again, keep up the great work. As long as we are protecting our president from people like you, we can't go after them.

May 20, 2011 at 2:58 a.m.

seasmokie, your about as much military as a dogs as... you are full of bs and could not hold a jock strap of a GI

May 21, 2011 at 1:36 a.m.
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