published Tuesday, July 31st, 2012

Milton Friedman at 100

One hundred years ago today, the most powerful defender of economic liberty in American history was born in Brooklyn to poor Jewish immigrants.

Though he stood barely five feet tall, Dr. Milton Friedman was a giant in the field of economics and the most important friend of freedom America has seen in the past century -- perhaps even since the Founding Fathers.

A 1976 Nobel-prize winner for his research on monetary policy, he is best remembered for eloquently dismantling economic falsehoods. Because of Friedman, most Americans know that government can't spend its way out of economic trouble or create economic prosperity.

Well, most Americans except our current president, anyway.

At a time when half of the world's people were economically enslaved by communism, Friedman's writings laid the groundwork for the small government ideas of Barry Goldwater and, later, the Reagan Revolution.

Friedman's book "Capitalism and Freedom" is to free market principles what "The Communist Manifesto" is to communism. The biggest difference is that Marx and Engels' ideas are responsible for the deaths of more than 100 million people, while the free market philosophies championed by Friedman and others have resulted in worldwide improvements in quality and quantity of life.

With local, state and federal governments all dipping deeper into taxpayers' pockets and spending more money on less justifiable programs, it is a particularly worthwhile time to reflect on one of Dr. Friedman's most legendary statements.

"There are four ways in which you can spend money," Friedman said. "You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then, you really watch out what you're doing, and you try to get the most for your money.

"Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I'm not so careful about the content of the present, but I'm very careful about the cost."

"Then," he continued, "I can spend somebody else's money on myself. And if I spend somebody else's money on myself, then I'm sure going to have a good lunch! Finally, I can spend somebody else's money on somebody else. And if I spend somebody else's money on somebody else, I'm not concerned about how much it is, and I'm not concerned about what I get. And that's government. And that's close to 40 percent of our national income."

Let's hope a few bureaucrats and elected officials read those words and show a little more concern for the people who furnish all of those dollars.

Though Friedman died in 2006, his birthday should be celebrated by every person who believes that people -- not government -- are the reason why we live in the richest, healthiest, safest, most prosperous time in the history of the world.

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Milton Friendman, contrary to this editorial, actually created a lot of hogwash and deception. He's been used to give credit to a legion of libertarians who mouth slogans and platitudes, and ignore the perilous consequences of their actions.

Besides, let's face it, you and he would never agree on how to handle marijuana. You're just as false in adopting him as Reagan was. Much like others were false in pretending to claim the support of Marx or Engels. Which you never seem to quite grasp for some reason.

Anyway, I've found that those who are the most inclined to misuse their money are the ones who think it is theirs, that they deserve it, and it's an entitlement. The real problem is feeling you are owed the right to something, to the point where you justify anything you do as virtuous. People who feel they don't truly possess something, but are merely entrusted to it, who feel that it's somebody else's, I find they are more inclined to be responsible with it.

I know when I borrow something I'm very careful with what I do with it, since I don't feel it's mine.

Sorry, but your quote just doesn't add up.

Also, I'm going to laugh when you come up with some reason to declare that these modern times have gone awry. Not that I think you're right anyway, not as a whole, especially not as to the cause, but it'll be funny seeing you forget what you just said.

July 31, 2012 at 1:30 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Milton Friedman may be the economist most responsible for the collapse of the Western economies. Friedman was a forceful advocate for fiat money and influenced Nixon to abandon the gold standard. Unbacked money has a centuries long history of failure because the temptation for governments to print or use credit creation to excess and destroy value. With competing currencies, all unbacked, chaos will ensue within a few decades as we are now experiencing.

When one peels away the layers of Friedman's econ-speak, we have a statist economist who (inadvertantly) fostered big government and an unsound currency.

The Austrian School of Economics will likely be the model to lead us from the disasterous path that Friedman and Keynes have led us down.

July 31, 2012 at 2:27 a.m.
librul said...

That senile devil Ronald Reagan and his fascist archangel Friedman and the whole blood-soaked horde called "the Chicago Boys" should have been lined up and shot for the horrible atrocities they fostered in South America. They supported the most blatant serial destruction of democracy and engineered the most shameful and murderous regimes known to the modern era - all showing that naked capitalism is the most evil thing known to man.

July 31, 2012 at 6:51 a.m.
conservative said...

Good job! Love those quotes.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.Adrian Rogers

July 31, 2012 at 8:21 a.m.
joneses said...

I find it amazing that people like librul and happywithbeingafool actually think that government can redistribute wealth evenly without favoritism. They actually think the U.S. government is the most efficiently run entity on this planet. It is amazing how foolish these socialist, communist or whatever they are believe what they believe. Nothing they believe in has ever worked anywhere on this planet but yet they are so blind and brainwashed they think it will. Amazing. They do not realize the majority of the poorest people in America have cell phones, color televisions, cars, plenty of food and housing and do not even have to work just to name a few while the poorest people in the communist countries they think are great do not have any of these things and live a meager existence. Capitalism works as proven by America having the wealthiest poor people on earth.

July 31, 2012 at 8:51 a.m.
conservative said...

"Capitalism works as proven by America having the wealthiest poor people on earth."

Good line joneses and very true.

July 31, 2012 at 9:02 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Joneses,

"I find it amazing that people like librul and happywithbeingafool actually think that government can redistribute wealth evenly without favoritism. They actually think the U.S. government is the most efficiently run entity on this planet. It is amazing how foolish these socialist, communist or whatever they are believe what they believe. Nothing they believe in has ever worked anywhere on this planet but yet they are so blind and brainwashed they think it will."

This is a straw man argument.

"They do not realize the majority of the poorest people in America have cell phones, color televisions, cars, plenty of food and housing and do not even have to work"

This is completely and utterly false. It is a complete fabrication. You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. The majority of the poorest people lack nearly all of these things. The only reason they do have any food or housing is because of government aid. Many have no transportation and are forced to use PUBLIC transportation. You can thank the government for that. Many do not have televisions or cell phones either. Hell, they are lucky to have a landline. Are you truly this out of touch?

"Capitalism works as proven by America having the wealthiest poor people on earth."

This is a terrible argument. That is like saying HIV is better than AIDS because people don't die as quick. Either way, you still have a disease and you still die quicker than most people. Your logic is flawed. You have literally promoted and backed capitalism based on how "rich" the POOR people are.

July 31, 2012 at 9:03 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

"Good line joneses and very true."

Can you possibly be serious? You have literally just advocated poverty.

July 31, 2012 at 9:04 a.m.
conservative said...

In today's Business Section :

"UTC student learns from father, starts own business"

Good story and a good example of how a person can prosper in America practicing Capitalism instead of practicing Socialism by sitting on his rear end and receiving other people's money.

July 31, 2012 at 9:25 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

You truly have no idea what Socialism is.

July 31, 2012 at 9:28 a.m.
conservative said...

People who denounce the free market and voluntary exchange, and are for control and coercion, believe they have more intelligence and superior wisdom to the masses. What's more, they believe they've been ordained to forcibly impose that wisdom on the rest of us. Of course, they have what they consider good reasons for doing so, but every tyrant that has ever existed has had what he believed were good reasons for restricting the liberty of others.Walter E. Williams

July 31, 2012 at 9:41 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

Again, you have no clue what Socialism is.

July 31, 2012 at 9:43 a.m.
conservative said...

People don’t have rights to jobs and they don’t have rights to medical care or rights to education. What you have is a right to your life. That’s what you have. We’re told that’s not compassionate. But if you look at all of history you’ll find out that the most uncompassionate system of all is socialism and welfarism.Ron Paul

July 31, 2012 at 9:50 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

For a third time today, you have no clue what Socialism is.

July 31, 2012 at 9:53 a.m.
nucanuck said...

c-man, you clearly do not know much about Milton Friedman. Do some reading.

July 31, 2012 at 10:15 a.m.
conservative said...

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.Sir Winston Churchill

July 31, 2012 at 10:19 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

These quotes aren't helping your knowledge or comprehension.

July 31, 2012 at 10:28 a.m.
conservative said...

When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.P. J. O'Rourke

July 31, 2012 at 10:32 a.m.
Easy123 said...

The secret to life is this: never hold in a fart. - Dalai Lama.

July 31, 2012 at 10:36 a.m.
aae1049 said...

A great editorial makes people think, and have dialogue. This one sure did.

Pilot agreements, TIF's, .gov businesses is all they understand in our local governments who are way too cozy with Chattanooga Chamber of Commence (local taxpayers give them 1 million per year for 6 figure CEO, Tom and all the Eds). Our elected officials are on a perpetual dinner and a date with the Chamber.

From boat docks to Chattanoogan Hotel to tax exempt Industry to building roads for private developers, leaves only stupid people like us paying property taxes. We are subsidizing all of this, and seeing no quantifiable return in sales tax. There are those that believe we make it up in sales tax revenue, not true, completely false. The sales tax revenue is flat, and Tom Eds answer is it could be worse. The local Chamber of Commerce acts politically not economically, when they determine who gets a pilot. This is the type of economics that is practiced in Hamilton County, called A List Economics.

A List economics defies the entire premise of supply and demand that made us the greatest Country in the World.

A tax base driven business model will always fail because just like this Editor has quoted from Freidman that in essence means, it is too easy to spend other people money and there is no effort to conserve in spending.

July 31, 2012 at 10:57 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Friedmanites from both parties collaborated to roll back bank regulations. That act of greed has cost the US and the West their soul and their lucre. Milton the grave-digger!

July 31, 2012 at 11:06 a.m.

And here I was hoping there would be some discussion about Milton Friedman.

Yet it never happens. Sorry aae1049, I'm not seeing many people thinking or engaging in dialogue. I'm seeing a lot of haranguing and bickering. And a lot of empty platitudes. Wow somebody can come up with a quote by somebody? Rhetoric is cheap.

But like I said, I completely disagree with the premise that it's too easy to spend other people's money. My perspective is the opposite, I'm far more careful with other people's money because I feel responsible for giving them their value.

I think the problem is people thinking they own other people's money instead.

In other words, possessiveness.

July 31, 2012 at 11:10 a.m.
aae1049 said...

HappywithNameCalling, you spend your time telling everyone else how stupid they are, and how superior you are, as noted from the comments from others about your happywithDemeaningOthers. Frankly, I am just not seeing your superiority. :-)

July 31, 2012 at 11:19 a.m.
conservative said...

"When you implement “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need,” magically, everyone starts having quite a lot of need and very little ability."

July 31, 2012 at 11:25 a.m.

Thanks again folks, for showing you can't discuss, but just blather on with hostility and venom.

You really need to start looking out for others and see them as more valuable than yourself.

July 31, 2012 at 11:27 a.m.
aae1049 said...

I value your HappywithGovBulbs opinion, just stop telling us all how stupid we are, and make your point.

July 31, 2012 at 11:38 a.m.

HWNB, Anything I earn is mine. I am entitled to it as a result of the effort and time I put into earning it. I own it and can do anything I want with it because it is mine. Is that really all that hard to understand?

Easy, When you talk about government aid I have to laugh. You talk about the government as if they are creating all of the things they are giving away. Where do you think the government got the stuff they are giving to the poor? Did they do something to earn it? This is where the misdirected wisdom HWNB was trying to impart comes in handy. Everything the government has including it's power is entrusted to it by the people. They should be more careful with it and abstain from using it to buy drumsticks or to hire psychics and clowns and instead use it to do the job they are supposed to be doing with it. The list of abuses by the government of that entrusted to them by the people of this country is long enough to be considered nearly endless.

You don't know what you are talking about in regard to the poor people in the U.S. They are far better off than the poor people in other countries. The line set as the poverty line in this country is far above the average yearly earnings of people in other countries. Their government doesn't supply them with cell phones at all no matter how poor. Let's look at the evidence. What do you think the obesity rate is for food stamp recipients? Look it up. People who are starving are not burdened by obesity. What about shelter? Ever seen a housing project right after it is built? I am talking about before the future residents screw the place up. It isn't a mansion, but they are comfortable apartment type residences with air conditioning, electricity, plumbing and insulation. They are palaces compared to the shanties and mud huts of the third world. How about medical care? Anyone who is sick can go to the emergency room and receive care. In other countries the poor don't have that option or any other option. We do in fact have the richest poor people in the world and to the poor people in other countries, that is a ringing endorsement for capitalism.

July 31, 2012 at 11:57 a.m.

aae1049, why don't you try to discuss things rather than futilely trying to play the victim? Your protests are already shown to be dishonest.

Are you just trying to discredit your side? Fess up for once.

FlyingPurpleSheepleEater, that's fair you think you earn what you labor for, but what does it have to do with Milton Friedman? That I can't understand.

Sounds more like what Karl Marx said. That people's labor was their own, not somebody else's. Which people feel they have a right to, and that's fair. When something belongs to somebody else though, you feel you have to earn it, and that matters quite a lot.

That's why when it's somebody else's labor, I feel MORE concerned about using it properly, not less. What's the problem here? And what's the relationship to the faults of Milton Friedman?

And yes, your government should have earned the right to your taxes. That's why they have to give you the vote, have to provide justice, have to not discriminate on invalid characteristics, have to do a host of other things to justify their existence.

If it doesn't, then change it. But don't pretend that the solution is to eliminate government as if it were truly evil.. That leads to more abuses and you are misdirecting your ire towards the failings of government with petty grievances that ignore the real violators.

The clowns and psychics hired? Whatever. You could eliminate them and make no difference in the outcome. They're dwarfed in their impact by the lobbyists who engage in regulatory capture and legislative exploitation.

At least bring up the real threat rather than waste time fretting over trivialities. It's like complaining about a drip from the faucet when your bucket has been drilled full of holes.

Also, if you want to know why the obesity rate is so high, that's because unhealthy food is cheap (yet oh so tasty for some reason). Where do they get their food? From the fine free-market grocery stores where their food stamps work, not from government cafeterias and warehouses. So why do we have this program? Because somebody profits from it.

And look up how shoddily built those housing projects tend to be, they may look nice, but quality isn't there. Ah the perils of the cheapest bidder. Of course housing projects are no longer the way to go, instead there's some other solution going on.

Besides comparing the developing world to the US, that's like comparing the worst performing student in a high school class to a bunch of kindergartners. Not at all likely to get you valid results.

Try comparing to places that are somewhere closer to parity.

July 31, 2012 at 12:27 p.m.
librul said...

Message from a witness to the cancer of capitalist greed and the accelerating decline of American empire and why the one percenters and the THIRTY TRILLION DOLLARS they currently hold in offshore tax havens are destroying America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUxjZhquwPk

July 31, 2012 at 12:52 p.m.
aae1049 said...

Whoa, HappywithFreeGovBulbs settle down.

You write, "But don't pretend that the solution is to eliminate government as if it were truly evil." Yet, no one on this thread has written anything of that nature. What are you smoking?

Finally, there is nothing "trivial" about the Pilot agreements, or any other issues raised by people posting here. They are all related.

You should not demean the views of others. We can have an opinion if we wish.

July 31, 2012 at 1:54 p.m.
EaTn said...

conservative said..."The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.Sir Winston Churchill"

For all our conservative friends who believe that all socialists are are worthless athiests, try reading the Book of Acts in the Bible for the practice of socialism by the early Christians. Sir Winston Churchill was very narrow minded in that comment--nowdays, capitialism has become greed-ism without compassion.

July 31, 2012 at 1:56 p.m.
conservative said...

EaTn, please read Acts chapter 2. Thousands of Jews from regions and countries far away had gathered in Jerusalem for Pentecost, verse 5. The Apostles were there, the Holy Spirit came and thousands were converted to Christianity. These would normally have returned to their homes shortly after. However, these stayed in Jerusalem for quite some time learning from the Apostles the doctrines of Christianity.

They needed shelter, food and clothing and many were poor. The generous Jerusalem Christians sold their possessions to provide for the new converts as an act of faith and love.

Yes, one could call this a form of socialism, but with large differences from the socialism advocated by atheists. It was VOLUNTARY, the government was not involved forcing the redistribution of anyone's wealth.

You will only find voluntary giving taught for Christians in the New Testament.

July 31, 2012 at 3:01 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

"You will only find voluntary giving taught for Christians in the New Testament."

False.

Luke 20:25 (ESV)

Is it lawful for us to give tribute to Caesar, or not?” But he perceived their craftiness, and said to them, “Show me a denarius.e Whose likeness and inscription does it have?” They said, “Caesar’s.” He said to them, “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

Do you voluntarily pay taxes?

Matthew 23:23 (NIV) -

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Do you voluntarily tithe?

It seems like Jesus commanded both and would take the whole "voluntary" idea out of it. You're commanded to do it and rebuked if you don't.

July 31, 2012 at 4:35 p.m.

aae1049, you may not be familiar with the posts of FPSE, conservative, and others, or even with Milton Friedman, but I am. They have said such things, and continue to say it. If you had an honest view, you'd see it just in this thread here, but you don't, do you?

And yes, compared to the real problems, worries over penny-ante stuff like psychics and clowns are trivial. There's billions being wasted feeding the corporate welfare trough and yet the only waste that ever gets mentioned is tiny complaints about a million or two that might possibly be misspent. So of course we have to spend 5 million to make sure it's not! How economical!

But hey, you want to complain about demeaning others? First consider yourself. Consider those you are silent about. There's really demeaning others, and there's a fair criticism.

Besides you don't get to have your opinions without challenges. So stop pretending you're being personally attacked and insulted by me.

You aren't.

You want to show you aren't just adopting a fraudulent defense? Then stand up to the real bullies here.

Oh wait, you've already been silent. That speaks volumes.

Thanks again.

July 31, 2012 at 4:43 p.m.
aae1049 said...

HappywithNothingReally Think about what you just wrote to me, verbatim,

"aae1049, you may not be familiar with the posts of FPSE, conservative, and others, or even with Milton Friedman, but I am"

You could have shortened this to, I am so superior to you and the purple people flying thing, hehe.

The Corporate welfare you complain about is the essence of the Pilot agreements.

July 31, 2012 at 4:59 p.m.

lol. He certainly isn't happy with you aae1049. Hey happy, have you heard about the new findings on your cherished bulbs? Tiny flaws in the phosphorus coatings cause people to be exposed to high amounts of UVA and UVC radiation. I hope you are happy with melanoma as well as the new bulbs.

July 31, 2012 at 5:07 p.m.
conservative said...

Easy, you seem to never miss an opportunity to look foolish. Try reading instead of reacting.

You are an avowed atheist. You hate God, want no part of God, and do not know God.

Why do you atheists who are so ignorant of Scripture sometimes use Scripture? Do you believe those to whom you misuse Scripture on are too stupid to discover your lies or are you really that ignorant?

Again "You will only find voluntary giving taught for Christians in the New Testament."

Of course Christians are to obey government which would include taxation. EaTn brought up Christians selling their property to help out other Christians in the book of Acts and that is what I was addressing.

Regarding your second error and misuse of Scripture, note that Jesus had not yet been crucified, the law and all of it's requirements were still in effect. With the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ the Mosaic law was replaced by Christianity.

Giving replaced tithing. In all of Paul's writings and the writings of the other Apostles, you will not find any command or obligation to tithe.

July 31, 2012 at 5:21 p.m.

aae1049, keep up with the petty criticism! Play the victim! But yes, those PILOT agreements are welfare. Good on you to notice.

Can you connect it to Milton Friedman though?

FlyingPurpleSheepleEater, you mean like the hysterical paranoia over the deadly deadly mercury in the CFL bulbs? From the same people who get upset when some other product is shown to cause cancer, and grouse about the government ordering it put on a label?

Yeah, sorry, the dishonest here is showing. Just as they feign outrage over mercury in a bulb while ignoring far more from burning coal in the atmosphere, it's just somebody looking for an excuse. They probably freak out when they see the government warning them to put on sunscreen or wear a hat or sunglasses, but a CFL bulb that won't do anywhere near the harm? Why that sends them into convulsions!

But hey, if you want, try LEDs, they've got even more advantages.

Just don't pretend you're really saving yourself from the scourge of mercury or cancer. And I really hope you never go to Colorado to breath that fresh mountain air. It'll come with a REAL dose of UV.

conservative, true or false, if we don't do what God wants, we're going to suffer in Hell for it?

That's pretty coercive.

July 31, 2012 at 5:46 p.m.
aae1049 said...

FlyingPurpleSheepleEater There is an over population of sheeple in Chattanooga, so you feast away.

July 31, 2012 at 6:27 p.m.
nucanuck said...

librul, the Moyers-Chris Hedges interview was deeply thoughtful and compelling. I have read Hedges' articles for years, but never connected so squarely until this. Thanks for the posting.

July 31, 2012 at 7:10 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

"Why do you atheists who are so ignorant of Scripture sometimes use Scripture? "

I am fully convinced that I have read and know more "scripture" than you. This isn't my first rodeo, big boy.

"EaTn brought up Christians selling their property to help out other Christians in the book of Acts and that is what I was addressing."

Your statement was very broad. You said this:

"You will only find voluntary giving taught for Christians in the New Testament."

You gave no specifics about what type of giving you were referring. That mistake is entirely on you and your unlettered post.

"With the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ the Mosaic law was replaced by Christianity."

If this were true, we can throw out the 10 Commandments, correct?

Your faulty logic regarding your own holy book is common. You don't even know what's in your holy book. You throw out the parts you don't like and keep the parts you do. The incoherence and multiple interpretations of your holy book make you look like a fool when you try to reason and reconcile it.

July 31, 2012 at 8:45 p.m.
conservative said...

Don't you have any sense of shame or decency at all easy?

No, your misunderstanding is your misunderstanding, if you were to really read what EaTn wrote and what I wrote it would be quite clear what I meant and what he meant. You just rushed to be foolish.

Your "If this were true, we can throw out the 10 Commandments, correct?" No, that is not correct and you once again displayed both your hate and ignorance for God's word by your snarky question.

Your claim of past Bible instruction is highly suspect in that you do not know that the Mosaic law was set aside when Christ was crucified.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.1 Corinthians 2:14.

July 31, 2012 at 9:27 p.m.

The lack of shame comes from those who most diligently profess their own virtues.

Confidence in their righteousness has ridden them of conscience.

Which is quite convenient for them.

July 31, 2012 at 9:40 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

This is what you said:

"You will only find voluntary giving taught for Christians in the New Testament."

The mistake is entirely yours because of your vagueness. Again, you made no specific statement about which "giving" you were referring. You even had to clarify your words in the next post.

"No, that is not correct and you once again displayed both your hate and ignorance for God's word by your snarky question."

Why isn't it correct? You haven't presented any evidence to the contrary. You said it yourself:

"With the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ the Mosaic law was replaced by Christianity."

The 10 Commandments were the first Mosaic Laws. Why do you cling to those and throw out the others? You cannot reconcile this. You can only present a lame denial.

Your knowledge of your own religion and holy book is suspect. You can't even reconcile the inconsistencies YOU have presented from your own Bible. You want to argue that Mosaic Law was abolished by the death of Christ yet you still cling to the most famous of the Mosaic Laws, the 10 Commandments. You logic is fatally flawed.

You are a terrible apologist and a third rate Bible scholar. Please keep arguing. I thoroughly enjoy making a fool of Christians that have not studied their own religion and holy book. Your holy book is incoherent and so is any argument you make attempting to defend it.

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

July 31, 2012 at 9:54 p.m.
conservative said...

easy, you need to read it all again. Read EaTn's comment as well. Set your hatred for God aside and you will get.

August 1, 2012 at 8:07 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

I've already read it. And I don't hate your fairy tale deity. Keep trying.

August 1, 2012 at 8:35 a.m.
conservative said...

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.Frederic Bastiat

August 1, 2012 at 10:40 a.m.

Take it easy on them conservative. Easy and HWNB simply hate YOUR freedom which is why they hate the subject of this article and Christianity. If it were up to them, all of our lives would be tightly controlled by central planners so that we didn't do anything they considered to be stupid.

August 1, 2012 at 10:46 a.m.
Easy123 said...

FPSE.

"Easy and HWNB simply hate YOUR freedom which is why they hate the subject of this article and Christianity. If it were up to them, all of our lives would be tightly controlled by central planners so that we didn't do anything they considered to be stupid."

Straw man argument. Would you like to try again?

August 1, 2012 at 10:49 a.m.
conservative said...

FPSE, I agree with you assessment in general

August 1, 2012 at 11:16 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

"FPSE, I agree with you assessment in general"

So you're actively admitting that you're deluded, correct?

August 1, 2012 at 11:17 a.m.
conservative said...

People don’t have rights to jobs and they don’t have rights to medical care or rights to education. What you have is a right to your life. That’s what you have. We’re told that’s not compassionate. But if you look at all of history you’ll find out that the most uncompassionate system of all is socialism and welfarism.Ron Paul

August 1, 2012 at 11:26 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

How long can someone live in the United States of America without medical care, education and a job? Wouldn't neglecting any one of those things diminish the quality and length of one's life?

Rhetoric is cheap. And you subscribe to only the most cut-rate kind.

August 1, 2012 at 12:17 p.m.

Easy123, can't you realize that we're denying them their very important freedoms to oppress, to be intolerant, and to take from others?

See, we're the bad ones, because we just won't let them be cruel and vicious.

See giving people the right to fair treatment, the right to a fair chance, the right of access serves only to force others to lose their far more important freedom.

August 1, 2012 at 12:19 p.m.
Easy123 said...

happy,

I'm fully aware of those things. They always play the victim when they are being criticized. They hate being called out for their bigotry and ignorance. It is their greatest fear. That's why they need more people to believe in their religion. They hate opposition. They live for unabated ability to judge anyone and make the rules for us all.

August 1, 2012 at 12:31 p.m.
conservative said...

In all the years I took my daughter to the playground, I never once heard another parent tell a child that if some kids have more toys than you do, that makes it okay to take some of them away. Nor did I ever hear a parent tell a child that if some kids have more toys than others, that makes it okay to form a government and vote to take some of those toys away. Of course we encourage sharing, and we try to make our children feel remorse when they are very selfish. But at the same time, we tell them that if other children are being selfish, you must cope with that in some way short of a forcible expropriation. You can cajole, bargain, or ostracize, but you cannot simply steal. Nor is there any such thing as a legitimate government with the authority to do your stealing for you.Steven Landsburg

August 1, 2012 at 12:32 p.m.
Easy123 said...

There must be a sale on these dumb quotes.

August 1, 2012 at 12:43 p.m.

Five for a dollar at the store.

But hey, did you ever have a child at a playground and one was hogging the swing, or slide, and not letting anybody else have any fun? How about the sandbox, ever asked to not use it all?

No, apparently not. They just think the government steals, that it is the thief. You see they are blind to the benefits. They just go into the playground and think it's not operated at the cost of somebody.

It's amazing how short-sighted children can be.

August 1, 2012 at 12:54 p.m.

Look who is calling someone else opressive and wanting to take from others. HWNB, have you ever heard of projection? Like the name "progressive", the words "oppressive" and "take" mean the exact opposite of what you seem to think they mean.

Telling someone they are free to work hard and attain whatever they can in this life isn't oppressive. Telling someone they can't do it on their own is. Taking money from people who EARNED it against their will and giving it to people who didn't earn it is oppressive to those who worked for it. The ironic thing is, that same action is oppressive to those who receive the stolen goods as well. The current welfare system is destroying black families and culture. It is slow genocide.

HWNB, Please explain how your analogy applies to anything but children. I can't wait.

August 1, 2012 at 4:14 p.m.

Yes, I see the conservatives engaging in projection all the time. It's part of your self-deception.

See, you think you're telling someone they are free to work hard. But in reality, what you're saying is "I don't care what happens to you, if it's bad, then it's your fault, not mind, you should have been stronger" as you keep finding ways to blame somebody else.

The ironic thing is, you probably really do believe you're doing the best thing for people.

And if you've never seen somebody hog something as an adult, boy are you out of touch.

August 1, 2012 at 4:34 p.m.
aae1049 said...

SheepleEater, please remember that HappyWithFreeBlubs is one of those liberals that sits on the sofa in his boxer shorts blogging all day, and only gets up to run to the mailbox to see if his check from the GoverMint has arrived.

BTW Liberals that play that race card called posters here Bigots, (ie Easy123) better be in the know of who you are loosely calling Bigots. I would match my civil rights work to the lot of you.

Exiting a thread that liberals have just ruined.

August 1, 2012 at 4:49 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Aae,

No one brought up the race card. Oh wait, you did.

And I'm exercising my free speech by calling you or anyone a bigot.

August 1, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.

Ah, yes, telling me what I am thinking as if you are in my head. Great work. What I was actually thinking is "What happens to you will most likely be a result of your own decisions, good or bad. I am not your nanny so I will keep my nose out of your business.

I don't believe I am doing the best for people. I believe people will do what is best for themselves. I try to focus on what is best for me and my family which is usually exactly the same things that are good for everyone else. If someone asks for help and has done everything they can, I might even use my freedom of choice to help them out. It is up to them to ask and up to me to help. I don't mean to hurt your delicate sensibilities, but I have to use that word again. Freedom. I just love the way it rings.

August 1, 2012 at 5:11 p.m.

aae1049: Keep blaming the liberals again. That's what conservatives do best.

FPSE, you've made numerous representations of me and my beliefs in this thread, and prior ones, so your offense is yet another sign of your hypocrisy. Or do you think nobody noticed you saying "Easy and HWNB simply hate YOUR freedom which is why they hate the subject of this article and Christianity. If it were up to them, all of our lives would be tightly controlled by central planners so that we didn't do anything they considered to be stupid."

Oh wait, we did.

Keep trying, you're just showing everything you think you do is right, while everybody else is always wrong.

That's how justify your actions under the banner of freedom, but in reality, that's just an excuse for you to not be responsible for anybody else. After all, helping them would teach them the wrong lesson. Better to pretend you're just not doing anything because that way, they're free.

August 1, 2012 at 5:20 p.m.

Huh? You need to take the meds down a notch. I didn't say everyone was wrong, just you and easy. That is unless you believe the pair of you represent "everyone". I am in fact not responsible for anyone but myself and my children. I, unlike you, don't feel it is my place to tell others how to live. Your comment betrays the fact that you feel it is your place in life to take responsibility for everyone else and control how they live and die. You can set your mind at ease in my case. You are in no way responsible for me or my children. Please take some time for yourself and leave us alone.

August 1, 2012 at 5:44 p.m.

FPSE, you're as dishonest as they come. You complained about me saying something about you, then when your own such conduct is revealed in this thread, you try to make false accusations about me.

Thanks again. Your actions betray the fact that you would rather disparage somebody with entirely fabricated slander than engage in honest discussion.

Why don't you try taking some time and being responsible for your words instead?

August 1, 2012 at 5:55 p.m.

Seriously. You should adjust your meds. They aren't working. You are delusional.

August 1, 2012 at 6:02 p.m.

Your continuing slander shows exactly why you have no integrity and no honest criticism.

People with genuine complaints don't have to lie and insult so gratuitously. A honest person would feel shame.

August 1, 2012 at 6:05 p.m.
SpookUSNret said...

Happy, there seems to have been a lot of very familiar rhetoric flying about in this thread. But way back up in the first comment - yours - you wrote "Anyway, I've found that those who are the most inclined to misuse their money are the ones who think it is theirs, that they deserve it, and it's an entitlement"

Could you clarify this please? Could you tell me why, if I am paid twenty dollars for a day's work digging a ditch, that I should not regard that money as "mine", that I should somehow believe that I don't "deserve" it (in return for a day's labor), and that I am somehow not "entitled" to the fruits of my labor?

Another question, from that same quote; could you please explain what you mean by my "misusing" that money? That money that I think of as mine, since (after of course FICA, SS, and income tax is withheld from it) it seems to end up in my pocket?

In other words, what in blue blazes sets you up to presume to judge how someone else uses - or "misuses" his own money?

August 6, 2012 at 11:08 p.m.
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