published Sunday, October 28th, 2012

The Alternative

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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miraweb said...

Nicely put, Clay. Subtle yet clear.

October 28, 2012 at 12:27 a.m.
dude_abides said...

This toon fits right in with the new Desjarlais revelation! Are you folks gonna vote for a dope smokin' womanizin' cheatin' abortionist? Damn right you are! Because you don't have the courage of your convictions.

October 28, 2012 at 12:46 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

And what is the humane way to murder little babies? Feed them to a vacuum cleaner? Burn their skin off with chemicals too strong for it? Smash their skull? Just leave them to die if they do manage to be born alive? These liberals always want to be nice to one person by forcing someone else to foot the bill; in this case, kill babies for the convenience of grownups. (In another current case, try to buy re-election by sticking the next generation with massive debt plus unfunded programs.) Repent, liberals; read John chapter 10: "No man takes it from Me, but I lay it down of myself...and I have power to take it again."

October 28, 2012 at 12:47 a.m.
wsushocker said...

I hope Mr. Bennett spends many hours deciding what to draw. This is a very important issue and I'm sure he gave his work a lot of thought. The message is clear to all who know the issue. If the tea-bagger is elected, this will be the only alternative for women who opt to end an unwanted pregnancy.

October 28, 2012 at 1:31 a.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

Just so I got this straight... IF Romney is elected he might have the oppertunity to appoint two supreme court justices. Then IF they both happen to be liberal judges that retire and IF he can then get the Senate to approve two conservative judges by a 2/3 rds majority them maybe a woman will no longer have the right to choose IF they then choose to reopen 30 years of established law? Kinda sounds like a stretch to me... Anything but the economy.....

October 28, 2012 at 1:42 a.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

Since I don't have a uterus I will try to avoid making decisions for people who do....but If you don't have a choice then you have a child... Almost election time, be afraid be very afraid, War on women , mediscare ,death panels, tax increases ,deregulation poison water, polluted air, gays kissin in public, the wrath of GOD.... Can't we walk back across that bridge to the twenty first century. Dust off "Don't stop thinkin about tommorow" and feel good about ourselves? Life was easier when it was a frisky intern and a few cruise missles hear and there. Bring on Nov 6th and vote for Gary Johnson , you will feel better about yourself if you stop being part of the problem. Or just keep buying into the fear

October 28, 2012 at 1:57 a.m.
fairmon said...

DJHBRAINERD said...

Bring on Nov 6th and vote for Gary Johnson , you will feel better about yourself if you stop being part of the problem. Or just keep buying into the fear

ditto

October 28, 2012 at 2:15 a.m.
fairmon said...

DJHBRAINERD said...

Bring on Nov 6th and vote for Gary Johnson , you will feel better about yourself if you stop being part of the problem. Or just keep buying into the fear

ditto

October 28, 2012 at 2:15 a.m.
fairmon said...

DJHBRAINERD said...

Bring on Nov 6th and vote for Gary Johnson , you will feel better about yourself if you stop being part of the problem. Or just keep buying into the fear

ditto

October 28, 2012 at 2:15 a.m.
fairmon said...

DJHBRAINERD said...

Bring on Nov 6th and vote for Gary Johnson , you will feel better about yourself if you stop being part of the problem. Or just keep buying into the fear

ditto

October 28, 2012 at 2:15 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Andrew - the humane way does not require the "murdering" of babies. If we want to end abortion in this country, the first logical and humane steps would be to provide all women with education, health care and access to birth control.

October 28, 2012 at 6:15 a.m.
EaTn said...

This image should remind us of a few facts: (a) the supreme court interprets the rules, not the president, (2) abortions have been around long before their favorable ruling, (C) pro-choice is NOT pro-abortion and (IV) the right-wingers are against government interference in people's lives, except women's.

October 28, 2012 at 6:24 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

abortion issue: The quintessential red-herring.

October 28, 2012 at 7:30 a.m.
SE said...

I wished Clay had a "suggest removal" button. I would press it.

October 28, 2012 at 8:02 a.m.
conservative said...

Mtjohn, although moral information and education has been eliminated in some areas of our society by Liberals, there are still Bibles and churches everywhere and God has given everyone a conscience.

Liberals call abortion "healthcare" and over 50 million have unfortunately gotten that Liberal Godless form of healthcare since Roe/Wade.

Every woman, with the exception of rape has had access to options of birth control.

October 28, 2012 at 8:23 a.m.
timbo said...

dude_abides..... 99% of the time If I voted for a "dope smokin',Womanizin', cheatin' Abortionist" I would be voting for a Democrat. At least this guy has one good attribute. He will vote Republican. All they are good for Is their vote.

October 28, 2012 at 8:23 a.m.
conservative said...

Eatn, I will remind you of a few facts : (1) presidents influence the decisions of others and presidents appoint justices who rule on matters of law (2) abortions did occur before this unfavorable ruling but there is no question it would have been far less than 50 million (3) Of course pro choice is pro abortion, it is a vague and euphemistic term invented by PRO-ABORTION evil people.

Macmillan ( choice)

noun

the opportunity or right to choose between different things

(4) The life that "right-wingers" are concerned about is the unborn child. You are also wrong about the "right-wingers" being against "interference" in other people's lives. We "right-wingers" also want to protect the lives of law abiding people as well, and that would even include YOU!

October 28, 2012 at 8:50 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

As long as women and girls are controlled or exploited anywhere, this issue belongs to women only and remains between them and their health care professional.

October 28, 2012 at 8:52 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

There goes Clay again. Yawn. I wonder how many abortion cartoons he does every year.

October 28, 2012 at 8:54 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

lkeithlu said... "As long as women and girls are controlled or exploited anywhere, this issue belongs to women only and remains between them and their health care professional. "

I would be willing to accept that, if people who know abortion is evil are not forced in any way, by any measure, to pay for whatever is going between that woman and her doctor.

October 28, 2012 at 8:57 a.m.
conservative said...

In the mind of an atheist abortion is health care.

In the mind of an atheist a professional contract killer is a health care professional

October 28, 2012 at 9:02 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Fair enough. As long as those who think religion is a pile of hooey don't have to pay for it. That includes public school forcing Jesus on children, cities funding religious conventions and tax exemption for church property.

October 28, 2012 at 9:05 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

conservative, your holy book says that life begins when a person draws their first breath.

October 28, 2012 at 9:07 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

lu: A bitter gal, you.

October 28, 2012 at 9:08 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Is this going to be a violent election driven by leftist rage? It already looks like it is becoming an election like we have never seen before.

http://frontporchpolitics.com/2012/10/liberals-turn-to-dirty-tricks-violence-as-election-approaches/

Notice how it is the left that is turning violent after trying to paint the tea party crowd as potentially violent.

October 28, 2012 at 9:14 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

bitter? Seems like an odd word to apply to me. But after 50+ years of dealing with some men that treat me like I am fragile, stupid or unstable because of my gender, as well as meeting many women who are controlled by men because they are taught that by the adults and clergy in their lives, I am a realist. I have no patience for men trying to make decisions for women. This is a non-issue for this very free country. You don't like abortion? Great. If you are a man, you will never be faced with that choice. If you are a woman, it IS your choice. And it should be a choice you make privately.

Oh, and just in case you claim father's rights, let me just lay it out there: I rank them far below the woman's.

October 28, 2012 at 9:14 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy, lu. Yeah, I'd say bitter fits. I believe Roe v Wade will survive. Just don't see why it's THE litmus test for every freakin candidate from county constable to president.

October 28, 2012 at 9:19 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I agree. Candidates should not even bring it up. And yet they do. Why is that?

Voters too. Every anti Obama letter bring up that and religion.

October 28, 2012 at 9:26 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Umm, Lu. Methinks you have that backward. The Obamists are the town crier on abortion. Please.

October 28, 2012 at 9:33 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

duped_again: "dope smokin'"= Clinton/Obama

"womanizing"= Clinton

"cheating"= Clinton

"abortionist"= you'll never know

Seems like you libbies tend to vote for these types more often than not.

October 28, 2012 at 9:35 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Actually, no. The GOP has run their campaigns on this issue since GWB. Long before Obama. Read the book What's the Matter with Kansas. It shows the real genius of the GOP, who turned campaigns from foreign relations and the economy to social issues, getting mainstream middle class social conservatives to vote against their own economic best interests by focusing on "values" and morality.

October 28, 2012 at 9:35 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Toes, liberals have problems with hypocrisy, not the personal behaviors of the candidates. Most of our best presidents, left and right, had women on the side.

Except maybe W and Carter

October 28, 2012 at 9:37 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

lkeithlu said... "Fair enough. As long as those who think religion is a pile of hooey don't have to pay for it. That includes public school forcing Jesus on children, cities funding religious conventions and tax exemption for church property."

Those are completely separate issues. You do not have to be religious to know abortion is evil.

October 28, 2012 at 9:43 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

You have to be religious to think evil is a real thing. They are the same issue. People have problems with abortion for religious reasons.

On the topic of the GOP, another great source is the film "With God on our Side" (there are actually two films by this name, so I'm providing a link.) Ironically, I came away from this film with much higher respect for GWB then I ever thought I would.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0431468/

October 28, 2012 at 9:44 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

lkeithlu said... "You have to be religious to think evil is a real thing."

You must have a strange, very specific definition of evil. I am not a religious person but I can still see evil all around me!

October 28, 2012 at 9:50 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Over $60,000 in Welfare Spent Per Household in Poverty

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/over-60000-welfare-spentper-household-poverty_657889.html

Damn! If we could only spend even MORE money on poverty, it'll go away!

October 28, 2012 at 9:50 a.m.
prairie_dog said...

For equal time, how about a donkey wearing a rubber? Oh, I know. . . because that WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Here's my idea for a cartoon. How about a sonogram of a ghetto mother, showing a big DOLLAR SIGN in her womb?

October 28, 2012 at 10:07 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I see wrong, injustice and oppression, not evil. Evil implies a supernatural cause.

Besides the oppression of women for religious and cultural reasons, I see children being born that were conceived under poor circumstances: women who were forced, under the influence of drugs or alcohol, too young, too poor to support a child, mentally ill or deficient, foolish or immature. Children should be wanted, cared for, and supported financially. It is cruel to raise children who are not. If every child has these things, I'd be happy to oppose abortion. More than happy.

Of course, then it won't be necessary to oppose abortion. It won't happen at all.

October 28, 2012 at 10:07 a.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

Abstinance only education, no condoms in schools, don't put your daughters on birth control and keep the morning after pill off the shelves. These actions lead me to believe the Right wants more abortions not less. Of course after all these poor people have babies they can't afford noone wants to help pay for them. Code named welfare reform. Seems like a better idea to me would be to make birth control free and readily available offer depo shots to young mothers and put the morning after pill on the shelf and talk openly about where babies come from. It's time to give our daughters a chance! Maybe then we would reduce the number of abortions and reduce the welfare rolls at the same time. Or we could just keep thumping our bibles and hope teanagers stop having sex!

October 28, 2012 at 10:22 a.m.
dude_abides said...

toes and timbo... thank you. That's all I wanted to establish. Conservatives simply don't have the courage of their convictions. They would vote for Satan if it meant they won the White House or a legislative majority. Hypocrisy on parade. I would consider certain moderate candidates from your brand if I thought you really believed what you espouse, but you don't. Ditto that 4 times harpy!

October 28, 2012 at 10:29 a.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

Seems like the left is praying on poor people from another angle. They just keep paying poor people to breed , keep them dependent with wic, sec 8 vouchers, and medicare until a majority has been reached. Want a bigger house, have another child. Need some more money, have another child. Just keep voting for the Democrat because the evil Republican will take away your free stuff! So which parties actions encourage an increase in abortions?

October 28, 2012 at 10:31 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

lkeithlu said... "I see wrong, injustice and oppression, not evil. Evil implies a supernatural cause."

Just as I thought, From dictionary.com...

e·vil   [ee-vuhl] adjective

  1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.

  2. harmful; injurious: evil laws.

  3. characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.

  4. due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.

  5. marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.

You look at evil purely through your perception of religion even though there are perfectly secular definitions of the word. Evil does exist beyond your narrow definition.

October 28, 2012 at 10:31 a.m.
ricardo said...

BigRidgePatriot said..."You do not have to be religious to know abortion is evil." October 28, 2012 at 9:43 a.m.

So BiRP, with that distinction, do you believe that government should be the moral arbiter on this issue?

October 28, 2012 at 10:38 a.m.
fairmon said...

lkeithlu said... As long as women and girls are controlled or exploited anywhere, this issue belongs to women only and remains between them and their health care professional.

No argument with that as long as they don't expect or demand their choice be paid for by others without conditions. I would contribute to a fund paying for an abortion including sterilization of the male and female.

October 28, 2012 at 10:40 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Fair enough, harp. May I add: STOP rewarding women on welfare for having more kids. Make welfare requirement that a woman enroll her child in school, volunteer at that school and in the community, work on job skills, get yearly OBGYN check-ups and be on birth control. I prefer a free country, but if my tax dollars supports someone who is able-bodied, I want something in return. Something that builds communities.

Able bodied unmarried men? Would like to see a return to federal programs like the CCC. Our infrastructure is falling apart-get unemployed men and childless adult women back to work.

October 28, 2012 at 10:49 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

MADONNA BOOED AFTER TOUTING OBAMA IN LA. CONCERT

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_PEOPLE_MADONNA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-10-28-04-26-51

It's even worse than Obama thinks it is.

October 28, 2012 at 10:51 a.m.
fairmon said...

There is a pro-choice law that is not going to change. Why is this an issue at every level with all the more critical near term issues? It is a distraction at every level that distracts from those economic issues that can impact every American for years. Anyone in the 4th district not aware of Desjarlais behavior is not likely to be a voter, enough about him. It is the economy stupid.

Grid lock is good, just hope we can keep it.

October 28, 2012 at 10:52 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

BRP, you are technically correct and I am wrong. I however don't use the term, because of its religious connotations. The word evil seems inappropriate for mundane things like smells!

October 28, 2012 at 11:02 a.m.
fairmon said...

lkeithlu said...

I prefer a free country, but if my tax dollars supports someone who is able-bodied, I want something in return. Something that builds communities. Able bodied unmarried men? Would like to see a return to federal programs like the CCC. Our infrastructure is falling apart-get unemployed men and childless adult women back to work.

Agree. Sounds like workfare instead of welfare. Workfare may even increase the demand for domestically produced materials and supplies which may help the economy. Why did shovel ready not work? Check out where the money went and how. Banks and other financial institutions don't do shovel ready work. We are building and repairing infrastructure in Iraq and other countries as ours crumbles.

October 28, 2012 at 11:06 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Conservative said: “Liberals call abortion "healthcare" and over 50 million have unfortunately gotten that Liberal Godless form of healthcare since Roe/Wade”

The issues surrounding high-risk pregnancies, rape victims, and parents who believe they cannot afford to have more children hasn't nothing to do with godlessness, Conservative. And if the issue of godlessness is as important to you as claim, why haven’t you expressed any concern about the policies of the GOP and individuals like Romney and Ryan who want:

To abolish safety programs that feed hungry children

To abolish the Affordable Care Act that assures healthcare for children

To abolish Medicaid, which provides obstetric care for poor mothers

To drastically reduce funding for the education of America’s children

To defund any program that provides birth control services to parents

To defund programs that provide assistance to the elderly in nursing homes

October 28, 2012 at 11:14 a.m.
ricardo said...

TOECHEESE said..."MADONNA BOOED AFTER TOUTING OBAMA IN LA. CONCERT

It's even worse than Obama thinks it is." October 28, 2012 at 10:51 a.m.

Duh. She was promoting a Democratic president in LOUISIANA, not Los Angeles. Louisiana has been solidly red for the past 2 elections.

October 28, 2012 at 11:17 a.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "although moral information and education has been eliminated in some areas of our society by Liberals, there are still Bibles and churches everywhere and God has given everyone a conscience."

Liberals are not to blame for any elimination of moral instruction "in some areas of our society." Atheists are those who work to remove religion from society. Liberals do not have any objection to religion, but it should always be a personal choice, at all times, whether or not to adopt religious beliefs.

As you state...Bibles and Churches are everywhere, and yet, most churches do a very good job of making people feel unwelcome in their churches, rather than to embrace any concept of tolerance.

You're a shining example of that.

"Liberals call abortion "healthcare" and over 50 million have unfortunately gotten that Liberal Godless form of healthcare since Roe/Wade."

That's an equally absurd statement. Nobody I know refers to the act of abortion as "health care." Abortion is abortion.

"Every woman, with the exception of rape has had access to options of birth control."

Having access to birth control and being able to afford it, are two distinctly different issues. When decisions must be made to provide the necessities of life, or to purchase birth control, birth control will take a back seat every time.

Those who are most likely to hook up for a session of passionate expression are the least likely to be able to afford birth control. Look no farther than someone in their teens.

People like yourself think that condoms, which are indeed relatively inexpensive, are all one needs to prevent pregnancy, all the while ignoring the simple fact that condoms are the least reliable birth control method out there.

The more reliable a birth control method is, the more expensive it is to purchase.

Add to the problem that one of the most dominant religions, the Catholic Church, prohibits the use of birth control.

Christians in general are more fond of pushing a very unrealistic agenda surrounding the instruction of abstinence on our youth, rather than to embrace a far more realistic solution that involves education in how to avoid an unwanted pregnancy, if one does the dirty deed.

God gives most of us a conscience, but he also gave most of us the desire to copulate as well.

October 28, 2012 at 11:22 a.m.
mymy said...

9 Days to Go!

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country/National Security here/abroad and the growing debt.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Romney/Ryan 2012

October 28, 2012 at 11:23 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Certainly a loving God is against abortion. He'd rather wait until they're born to kill them with famine, disease, genocide, and another American War.

Praise be to to God and His infinite wisdom!

October 28, 2012 at 11:24 a.m.
ricardo said...

Romney was pro-choice before he was pro-life:

October 28, 2012 at 11:25 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

7 Lies In Under 2 Minutes

Here you are retardo.

October 28, 2012 at 11:30 a.m.
ricardo said...

The US Senate will remain safely in Democratic control:

October 28, 2012 at 11:30 a.m.
ricardo said...

The US Senate will remain safely in Democratic control:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joxny3rco_4

October 28, 2012 at 11:34 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Obama lies and deception

You really wanna go there retardo?

October 28, 2012 at 11:35 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Here is what Republicans think about Romney:

October 28, 2012 at 11:37 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Ok retardo, tell us exactly what percentage of rape victims get pregnant. Was he lying?

October 28, 2012 at 11:38 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Here's what democrats think about Obama

Shame on You, Barack Obama

October 28, 2012 at 11:44 a.m.
WHS1970 said...

I'll be glad when the election is over, so you right wing hypocrites can crawl back under the rocks from which you came.

October 28, 2012 at 11:47 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

What Bill Clinton thinks about Obama

Bill Clinton on Obama: Big Fairy Tale

October 28, 2012 at 11:48 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

What Clinton thinks of Romney's qualifications

Clinton: Romney's "Sterling Business Career" Makes Him Qualified

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM2blL3ZNV8&feature=fvwrel

October 28, 2012 at 11:52 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Talk about being under a rock.

October 28, 2012 at 11:54 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Lu: Why is it that feminists like you seem to ENJOY victimhood?

October 28, 2012 at 11:57 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Ok retardo, tell us exactly what percentage of rape victims get pregnant. Was he lying?

Pregnancy rates are not affected by consent or lack thereof.

Of course, some GOP members think that rape only happens when the girl is a virgin, saving herself for her husband. Otherwise, it's consensual sex, regardless of what the woman feels about it. Also, marital rape is a myth.

Lu: Why is it that feminists like you seem to ENJOY victimhood?

Exactly what in any of my comments leads you to this conclusion?

October 28, 2012 at 11:57 a.m.
ricardo said...

Romney: Extreme on women's issues

October 28, 2012 at 11:59 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Dodged question, duly noted.

October 28, 2012 at 12:03 p.m.
ricardo said...

The Number 47: - Massachusetts was 47th in job growth under Romney - Romney doesn't care about 47% of this country - Mitt Romney will receive 47% of the popular vote in November

October 28, 2012 at 12:03 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Lu: Oh, mabye your obsessing.

October 28, 2012 at 12:03 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Nine days left retardo, too late to be digging up old bones and throwing old, used up arrows. Romney already closed the gender gap because he knows that women are worried about more than just having unfettered and guilt free sex. Which is exactly what you democrats think is the top issue for women.

Face it, if women want to have promiscuous sex, they'll do what they have always done, go get a box of Trojans or take the pill.

As for me, I'll give women more credit than you and suggest that they too, are more concerned about the economy and a failed foreign policy, than they are their sex lives. Trust me, the world will survive without the all encompassing dictate of your beloved liberalism.

October 28, 2012 at 12:15 p.m.
ricardo said...

Toecheese, the Republican electrate is already unravelling. With each passing day, they are defecting over to Libertarian candidates like Gary Johnson, diluting the votes for Romney. Democratic enthusiasm is just as high as it was in 2008. Early and advance voting have already put Obama over the top, so you can stay in your trailer on Tuesday and keep watching those Clinton You Tube videos and forwarding your lame anti-Obama e-mails.

October 28, 2012 at 12:31 p.m.
tipper said...

I skipped the comic section today to read all the religious right, uber-conservative, and male expertrise on abortion, women's healthcare issues, who lies about what,and the name-calling. thanks for the laughs.

October 28, 2012 at 12:32 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Lu: Oh, mabye your obsessing.

Pretty weak argument. Listen, smartie. I have never been victimized because I was raised to expect equal treatment. I was never allowed to let my gender be an excuse, nor was I ever led to believe that I would someday be someone's possession. However, all my life I have met many, many women who did not get that. Smart, beautiful, gifted women who have been told all their lives that because they were born with a vagina instead of a penis, they were stupid, and needed to be protected and sheltered by someone who was male. These women watched their mothers accept this treatment, and they are convinced that this is the way the world works. It's horrible, demeaning and inappropriate.

Women are killed by their partners every day in this country. Countless others never realize their potential. And that's the US, the best democracy on earth. It is far worse in other societies. So save your psychological assessments, JD. If I am obsessed, it is making sure that every woman in this country becomes 100% a free, full citizen, just like I was fortunate enough to be.

October 28, 2012 at 12:33 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Ikeithllu said: “This issue belongs to women only and remains between them and their health care professional.”

I don’t think these Republican wing-nuts are capable of grasping the issue, Ikeithlu. Indeed, I suspect they will not be satisfied until they live in a country ruled by one of those fundamentalist militant groups like the Taliban.

Anyway, speaking of health care professions and the sane sector:

“Doctors for America have collected 10,000 signatures on a very simple petition:

Declaration to America’s Politicians

We, the undersigned, demand our politicians put Patients Over Politics. We must work together to build on the Affordable Care Act with further reforms and commit to a future where everyone can get health care when they need it.

We believe in an America where everyone has quality, affordable health care and where doctors and the public work together to build a health care system that works for all.

We took a critical first step toward this vision when we passed the Affordable Care Act, a law supported by the largest physician organizations in the country. We must now ensure the Affordable Care Act is implemented so millions of Americans can realize the full promise of the law.

Among those 10,000 signers, one finds some of America’s most distinguished leaders in academic medicine and public health, award-winning health economists, clinicians, and health services researchers. Oh yeah. I’m on there, too.”

http://www.samefacts.com/2012/10/affordable-care-act/10000-people-sign-patients-over-politics-pledge-supporting-health-reform/

October 28, 2012 at 12:52 p.m.
degage said...

Al, you really have to admit that the athiest on this forum are liberals. That makes me think of athiest as liberals.I personally do not know one athiest that is not a liberal. actually I don't know but one athiest, and he is way to the left.

October 28, 2012 at 2:12 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

degage said...

"Al, you really have to admit that the athiest on this forum are liberals. That makes me think of athiest as liberals.I personally do not know one athiest that is not a liberal. actually I don't know but one athiest, and he is way to the left."

One of the dumbest comments ever posted but consistent with degage's intellect.

The word is spelled a-t-h-e-i-s-t. Write it 100 times using burnt bone on your cave walls.

October 28, 2012 at 2:23 p.m.
ricardo said...

lkeithlu, it scares the hell out of old, white, Republican men that over half of the voters in this country are women, who could dismantle their hold on power to control them.

October 28, 2012 at 2:26 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Sorry you're pissed, Lu. I simply think you're fighting windmills.

October 28, 2012 at 2:31 p.m.
ricardo said...

dayton, disengaged thinks that the superlative form of athier is athiest, instead of one who is "without god" (Gr.).

October 28, 2012 at 2:32 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

That's because you are male, JD. You haven't a clue.

October 28, 2012 at 2:32 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Great commentary by Andrew Sullivan on “morality” and the moral case for re electing President Obama - It matters in a way that nothing else does.

“On the universality of access to healthcare, on torture, and on pre-emptive war, my conscience therefore requires me to withhold support for the Republican candidate. I disagree with him on many prudential policy grounds - but none reach the level of moral seriousness of the above. Yes, a lot of this comes from my faith in the teachings of Jesus and the social teaching of the Catholic tradition in its primary concern for the poor and weak and the sick - rather than praising, as Romney and Ryan do, the superior morality of the prosperous and strong and healthy. But on all three topics, a purely secular argument also applies, simply based on the core dignity and equality of the human person, and the fragile advances we have made as a civilization against barbarism like torture.”

More of Sullivan's commentary at:

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/10/the-moral-case-for-obama.html

October 28, 2012 at 2:35 p.m.
MickeyRat said...

After Mittens moves into the White house and mongoloid horde of religious crackpots (Christian Taliban) start telling him what to do, he’ll appoint John Sununu as Homeland Security chief. From this will come: THE RAPE ADVISORY CHART

RED: ‘The Gift From God Rape’. Sponsored by Indiana Republican Richard Mourdock.

ORANGE: ‘Legitimate Rape’. Sponsored by Missouri Republican Rep. Todd Akin.

YELLOW: ‘Honest Rape’. Sponsored by Texsa Republican Rep. Ron Paul.

BLUE: ‘Emergency Rape’. Sponsored by WWF CEO and Connecticut Republican Senate candidate Linda McMahon.

LIGHT BLUE: ‘Easy Rape’. Sponsored by Wisconsin Republican state Rep. Roger Rivard.

GREEN: ‘Forcible Rape’. Sponsored by Republican Rep. Chris Smith and the 214 Republicans who co-sponsored the “No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act”.

WHITE: ‘Enjoyable Rape’ Sponsored by Republican Gubernatorial Candidate Clayton Williams.

The department will supply duct tape for low income ladies to, you know, cover up that rape sensitive area.

October 28, 2012 at 2:35 p.m.
degage said...

Dayton, What makes the statement that athEIst on this forum are liberals,dumb? They happen to be liberals, in fact they are way to the left. Sometimes I think you are an athEist, some of your post are very negetive about god and christians, and you are very liberal.

October 28, 2012 at 2:41 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

ricardo said... "do you believe that government should be the moral arbiter on this issue?"

I don't think government at any level should have a roll in killing any innocent living soul. The federal government should get out of it completely and give the issue back to the states. The citizens of the states can decide if they want to keep it legal inside of their borders.

I do like the idea of sterilisation of those who would go on the government dole and have a child. Males and females.

October 28, 2012 at 2:44 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

So Lu, as Al Sharpton sees race behind EVERY issue, you see misogyny. Right?

October 28, 2012 at 2:44 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Nope, just behind this issue. Sorry to burst your bubble.

October 28, 2012 at 2:47 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Lu: No bubble burst. Why the attitude?

October 28, 2012 at 2:53 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, are you serious? Did you really mean to write- Liberals are not to blame for any elimination of moral instruction in some areas of our society?

Do you understand the words you wrote?

Think about your statement - Liberals are not to blame for any elimination of moral instruction in some areas of our society.

October 28, 2012 at 2:54 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Why the assumptions?

October 28, 2012 at 2:54 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Lu: Forget it.

October 28, 2012 at 3:04 p.m.
degage said...

Ricardo,So I misspelled a word, I'm sure you and dayton knew what the word was, you liberals and atheist just have to be nasty.

October 28, 2012 at 3:05 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Thanks.

October 28, 2012 at 3:06 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Liberals are not to blame for any elimination of moral instruction in some areas of our society.

That's correct.

October 28, 2012 at 3:13 p.m.
dude_abides said...

degage said... "Al, you really have to admit that the athiest on this forum are liberals. That makes me think of athiest as liberals.I personally do not know one athiest that is not a liberal. actually I don't know but one athiest, and he is way to the left."

degage, have you never seen tu_quoque's posts on atheism? Total right winger, total atheist.

degage, have you never seen timbo's posts on atheism? Total right winger, total atheist.

No wonder you have such a hard time understanding the nuances of republican lies.

October 28, 2012 at 3:21 p.m.
miraweb said...

BRP - I am (honestly) curious why you think state governments are capable to make decisions on issues like this while the federal government is not?

Most state governments I've seen are just as partisan, dysfunctional, and uneducated as their brethren and sistren over at the Congress. In fact, a lot of the Congress critters came directly from state legislatures.

What are you seeing that I am missing?

October 28, 2012 at 3:26 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"abortion issue: The quintessential red-herring." - J_D

Spoken like a true old white male fart who is completely out of touch with reality. I seriously doubt that most women of child-bearing age consider it to be a "red herring." We libs would not be making an issue out of it if the regressive, self-righteous Bible thumpers and teabaggers would just shut up and butt out of women's lives and let them make their own choices, between them and their doctors. But when whackos like Mourdock, Akin, and others make their stupid, insane remarks about "legitimate rape" and rape being "God's will," and then other Republicans defending their lunacy and expressing their desire to make abortion completely illegal, even in cases of rape and incest, well, you're damn right we're going to make it an issue.

October 28, 2012 at 3:27 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

degage, I am an atheist as far as your god is concerned. Yahweh is a man-made tribal god of a primitive people. The Bible is a poorly written, contradictory collection of myths, stories, and legends compiled to explain the environment in which that particular tribe lived. Its relevance as history, science, and knowledge is outdated and obsolete.

I'm negative about the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Scientology as well as Jehovah. After you're 10 years-old you stop believing in fairy tales, spooks, demons, and magical gods if you have learned about science and reason.

I am a "classical" liberal. But you'll have to do your homework to understand that. I'll not waste my time explaining it to you.

October 28, 2012 at 3:29 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

rickyroo: So you think Mourdock and Akin are typical pubs, huh? I'll stick with the red-herring analogy. The Chinese could be invading from Mexico and you mopes would be talking about roe v wade...the law of the land. Yeah, that's a red herring. Speaking of butting out, maybe skull crushers could butt out of the killing of the unborn.

October 28, 2012 at 3:35 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

“Pro-conception-to birth, indifferent-to-life conservatives” - I believe Thomas Friedman gets to the bottomline rather well in his Op-Ed NYT's column:

“In my world, you don’t get to call yourself “pro-life” and be against common-sense gun control — like banning public access to the kind of semiautomatic assault rifle, designed for warfare, that was used recently in a Colorado theater.

You don’t get to call yourself “pro-life” and want to shut down the Environmental Protection Agency, which ensures clean air and clean water, prevents childhood asthma, preserves biodiversity and combats climate change that could disrupt every life on the planet.

You don’t get to call yourself “pro-life” and oppose programs like Head Start that provide basic education, health and nutrition for the most disadvantaged children.

You can call yourself a “pro-conception-to-birth, indifferent-to-life conservative.” I will never refer to someone who pickets Planned Parenthood but lobbies against common-sense gun laws as “pro-life.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/opinion/sunday/why-i-am-pro-life.html

October 28, 2012 at 3:36 p.m.
dude_abides said...

rickaroo... J_D's just fishing for female attention. He'll make an outrageous statement like that and get all coy if he gets a bite. It's alternately piteous and disgusting.

October 28, 2012 at 3:40 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

A very interesting documentary challenging the validity of modern government. This refers to Australia, but some say the same situation exists in the United States.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umVj5XQYAi8&feature=player_embedded#!

October 28, 2012 at 3:41 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

JD, it would not be an election issue if the GOP didn't use it as bait. Given the number of conservatives for whom this is the primary issue, perhaps the only issue, it makes sense. If they left it alone, it would never come up. Can they reverse RvW? Probably not, but most states are issuing more and more restrictions, giving lawmakers access to wombs everywhere.

October 28, 2012 at 3:42 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "BRP - I am (honestly) curious why you think state governments are capable to make decisions on issues like this while the federal government is not? Most state governments I've seen are just as partisan, dysfunctional, and uneducated as their brethren and sistren over at the Congress. In fact, a lot of the Congress critters came directly from state legislatures. What are you seeing that I am missing?"

Because the Constitution does not give the federal government jurisdiction. If the matter is dealt with by legitimate state legislatures, instead of law manufactured by the Supreme Court, the people will have a chance of having a voice in the matter. States that choose to legalise abortion will have to stand in the light of their decision. I think the issue is similar to that of slavery. When slavery was universally accepted, as at the federal level, slavery was very hard to get rid of. Once a large number of states legally rejected slavery the states that continued to cling to slavery were put under great pressure that eventually led to the end of legal slavery in this country.

It would not matter if some states made the wrong decision. Simply having differences between the states would force an honest dialogue on the subject. Then we would have some states that hold innocent life as worthy of protection while other states protect irresponsible sexual behaviour over the lives of innocents. I know which group of states I would want to live in.

October 28, 2012 at 3:49 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, in regards to your statement declaring that "most churches do a very good job of making people feel unwelcome in their churches, rather than to embrace any concept of in tolerance", do you have in mind Christian churches or religious "churches"?

October 28, 2012 at 3:54 p.m.
dude_abides said...

LOL BRP You just stabbed your point right in the heart! You gave an excellent example of individual states run amok!

October 28, 2012 at 3:56 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

alprova, in regards to your statement declaring that "most churches do a very good job of making people feel unwelcome in their churches, rather than to embrace any concept of in tolerance", do you have in mind Christian churches or religious "churches"?

This from the one who claims to know who real Christians are. My guess is if conservative reflects accurately his own church, alprova nailed it.

October 28, 2012 at 4:02 p.m.
conservative said...

"conservative, your holy book says that life begins when a person draws their first breath."

Well Ike, if you are referring to the Bible you once again, WRONG!

October 28, 2012 at 4:07 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Actually, I'm not.

Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”.
Job 33:4 “The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”

Ezekiel 37:5&6, “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”

October 28, 2012 at 4:12 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

dude_abides said... "LOL BRP You just stabbed your point right in the heart! You gave an excellent example of individual states run amok!"

I am sorry that you are too dim to see how the Northern States were able to exert force on the Southern States because they had the freedom to make their own determinations. I would further submit that the abolition of slavery would have happened in the South even if the civil war had never started or the Southern States had been allowed to secede. The North should have respected the South's right to secede and vacated their military holdings in the South. It was tragic that so many people had to die to make something happen on a particular time table. I suspect race relations in the South would be better today if a century of resentment had not been thrown into the mix.

October 28, 2012 at 4:12 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I suspect race relations in the South would be better today if a century of resentment had not been thrown into the mix.

not really. race relations are bad because a substantial number of folks still believe blacks are inferior. Civil War apologists always state that slavery wasn't the issue. If what you say is true, it would explain the bad feelings towards the north, not poor race relations. The south was treated horribly by northerners after the war.

October 28, 2012 at 4:15 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Mountainlaurel, that's a great article by Friedman. The term "pro-life" does not suit these neanderthal-ish regressives in the least. They are pro-zygote/pro-embryo/pro-fetus, nothing more.

But they're extremely good at falsifying and misrepresenting everything. They refer to taxation as "stealing," abortion - even in the first trimester - as "murder," and a government that looks out and tries to care for its citizens humanely and fairly as a "nanny state." Until their concern for life extends beyond the wombs of women with whom they have no business concerning themselves in the first place, they cannot rightly call themselves "pro-life."

October 28, 2012 at 4:21 p.m.
conservative said...

"This from the one who claims to know who real Christians are. My guess is if conservative reflects accurately his own church, alprova nailed it."

Wrong again Ike! Who is or is not a Christian is not always obvious in behavior, sometimes it can be determined by the rejection of Christian doctrine.

In the case of Hitler it was a no brainer contrary to your grossly wrong belief that Hitler was a Christian.

October 28, 2012 at 4:22 p.m.
dude_abides said...

BRP... yeah, right. I'm sure African Americans would feel much better about things if slavery had lasted another 50 years. Historically, doing nothing has always rectified injustices, right? So, you're all for fairness, but not on any particular timetable!

October 28, 2012 at 4:23 p.m.
patriot1 said...

mtnlaurel...thank you for posting the Friedman article from the NY Times. I too read that article through the link from the Drudge Report. One thing I did not understand though since you are quoting the article...exactly what is a "semiautomatic assault rifle?"

October 28, 2012 at 4:24 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

lkeithlu said... "not really. race relations are bad because a substantial number of folks still believe blacks are inferior. Civil War apologists always state that slavery wasn't the issue. If what you say is true, it would explain the bad feelings towards the north, not poor race relations. The south was treated horribly by northerners after the war."

You are entitled to your opinion. Agricultural automation was on the verge of eliminating the South's economic dependancy on slavery. The only real difference between the people in the North and the South at the time was the nature of their economies. Just because you reside below the Mason-Dixon line does not mean that you are magically more evil or stupid. If attitudes could change in the North they could change in the South and all the pieces were in place for slavery to end without war.

October 28, 2012 at 4:26 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I have no beef with that part of your comment. Only the part I re-posted. (edited)

October 28, 2012 at 4:36 p.m.
conservative said...

Actually Ike, you are, once again.

Matthew 1:18 KJV Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together , she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Luke 1:41 KJV And it came to pass , that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Luke 1:44 KJV For, lo , as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

October 28, 2012 at 4:37 p.m.
dude_abides said...

BRP said... "Just because you reside below the Mason-Dixon line does not mean that you are magically more evil or stupid."

Would you say the same thing about those residing below the Rio Grande?

250 years of slavery was going to end at any moment, right?

October 28, 2012 at 4:38 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Al, you really have to admit that the athiest on this forum are liberals. That makes me think of athiest as liberals.I personally do not know one athiest that is not a liberal. actually I don't know but one athiest, and he is way to the left."

Why not grasp the simple fact that Atheism and Liberalism are two distinctly different idealisms.

You DID stop short of calling every Liberal an Atheist, but I'm sure it crossed your mind. You alluded to it.

Conservatives, for some unknown reason, find it very hard to accept that a Liberal can have religious beliefs and can be very moral people.

A Liberal Christian, in my opinion, is one who's relationship with God and his Son is very personal and private, who additionally adopts a hands-off approach to influencing morality on other people at all times. Life is nothing, if not an individual quest to choose what is applicable to their individual life.

If God had not intended to allow each and every one of us to make such choices, then he would have established himself on Earth and ruled over all of us as a dictator.

We live in what is supposed to be known as a free country, yet there are people who are constantly working to limit freedoms all the time. They use the name of God and a book known as the Bible to attempt to limit freedom and choice.

When it comes to those who are at the right spectrum of religious belief, this insidious war to seize control of the reproductive organs of every single woman in this nation, has been relentless.

There is no mistaking that religion and anti-abortion go hand in hand, because I know of no one who is adamantly opposed to abortion, that is not on the ultra-religious bandwagon.

October 28, 2012 at 4:45 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Okay, so which is right? Same bible. Contradiction? Isn't the bible always supposed to be right?

October 28, 2012 at 4:48 p.m.
degage said...

dayton, I do know what classical liberalism is and your posts didn't come across as one. Classical liberals are more to the right than social liberals and you are not in the least right. social liberals are for the collective and classical are for indivisual and political fredom.

October 28, 2012 at 4:58 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

The population of the earth today is over 7 billion. That is almost 3 times what is considered sustainable in proportion to what we consume. While there has been somewhat of a lag in population growth the last few years, it is sill proected to grow to 8 billion in only 13 more years. Consider that countries like India and China, due to their rapid and massive economic growth, are consuming more and more of our resources, approaching the disproportionate levels that Europeans and especially Americans consume, and we will need the resources of 5 earths to sustain us.

You "pro-lifers" who wail and weep alligator tears for the million fetuses/embryos aborted each year are going to have to face the cold stark reality that obligatory abortion or sterility will likely be dictated by law in the near future. Either that or get used to reducing the comfort level of your lifestyle by well over 50% of what it is now, in order to sustain the additional millions of lives that you think deserve to be brought into this world of already diminished resources.

October 28, 2012 at 5:01 p.m.
ricardo said...

It appears that Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" (1729) was not far from the mark, given the challenges we face today.

October 28, 2012 at 5:07 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Unemployment for blacks is at 13.6% right now. I think you libbies like to keep the blacks poor. Welfare IS the new slavery, brought to you by the liberal agenda.

The Democratic Party's Long History of Racism

October 28, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Rickaroo,

The problem is not the children, it is the idiots that breed like animals. You do not have to murder innocent children to get population growth in check. Let me see. I am still fertile but somehow after more than 50 years have only spawned one child. No forced sterilisation, no quotas, no abortions.

Also note that affluent Americans, Canadians, Europeans all have very low birth rates. Then compare that to the birth rate of any group on the government tit. Are you socialists perpetuating the problem through government? Is your "dignification" of the "unfortunate" creating a group of people who can only find a sense of worth in child bearing since they cannot find it in the fruits of their labor and personal achievement?

October 28, 2012 at 5:19 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

fortunate" creating a group of people who can only find a sense of worth in child bearing since they cannot find it in the fruits of their labor and personal achievement?

So you think banning abortion is going to cure this?

October 28, 2012 at 5:21 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "alprova, are you serious? Did you really mean to write- Liberals are not to blame for any elimination of moral instruction in some areas of our society?"

First of all, you joined the elimination of religion and morality in your charge. I'm sure you believe that the two go hand in hand, but the simple fact is they do not.

Religious people fail to be moral all the time. Belief in or the expression of religious faith does not give one a lock for life on the issue of morality.

An Atheist can be an extremely moral and ethical person but opposed to religious expression. Liberals, by default, are not predisposed to objecting to religious expression.

You wear your religious beliefs on your shirt sleeves, very much like a Nazi wore an armband. You find it necessary, for some reason, to declare your religious beliefs constantly. Good for you.

Most people do not feel the necessity to attempt to shove their beliefs down the throats of others or to condemn others all the time, as you do.

Thus, I don't attend public functions to receive religious instruction or to bow my head in bouts of public prayer nor do I attend church expecting to listen to a recantation of the latest sporting highlights.

"Do you understand the words you wrote?"

Can you begin to grasp what I just wrote?

"Think about your statement - Liberals are not to blame for any elimination of moral instruction in some areas of our society."

Morality can encompass a wide litany of meanings. Perhaps you need to be more specific in your intent. Your list of what constitutes morality and that that would appear on most other people's list would differ quite a bit.

October 28, 2012 at 5:21 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike,the Bible is right, infallible and inerrant.

Those Scriptures cited were not to address person hood foremost, although that truth exists in those passages.

October 28, 2012 at 5:21 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Degage, there is no such thing as a neo-liberal, except maybe for some very small fringe groups that exist outside the mainstream. We libs have not gotten any more liberal than the so-called classical liberal. It's just that the right wing has moved so far off the charts to the right that anything to the left of them looks extreme in their eyes. We are not pushing for a socialist/communist utopia. We're not even calling for an end to the free market system. Hell, all we want is to get back to a level of sanity where government coexisted with the free market and the middle class was allowed its fair share of the pie. Ever since Reagan and his demonization of government and massive deregulation everything has been tilted in favor of Wall St., big business, and the uber-rich, and we have slipped more and more into an anti-government fervor that is completely unreasonable.

October 28, 2012 at 5:23 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

lkeithlu said... "So you think banning abortion is going to cure this?"

Obviously not. But abortion is not the solution either. I would be all for forced sterilisation in order to get a welfare check or food assistance from the government. Unemployment insurance would be an exception, but after you have shown that you are incompetent to support yourself you can choose to give up your right to reproduce before you can expect the government to support you.

October 28, 2012 at 5:26 p.m.
conservative said...

Alprova,considering your animosity for God and Scripture, I can't help but wonder if you were thrown out of a Christian church at some time in your life.

October 28, 2012 at 5:26 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Ike,the Bible is right, infallible and inerrant.

Those Scriptures cited were not to address person hood foremost, although that truth exists in those passages.

Ooooooohhhh....so you can decide for yourself which passages to take literally and which you can ignore or call allegory or parable, right?

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll remember that the next time someone quotes Leviticus as an excuse to bash gays.

October 28, 2012 at 5:28 p.m.
fairmon said...

richaroo.....It sounds like you are saying we will all become like China and their policy of death to more than one female per couple?

It is more likely disease due to the density of the population, conflicts and other causes will knock the numbers down more than anticipated. Population growth is a problem that is not being faced. The population at the current rate will double about every 36 years or less.

October 28, 2012 at 5:29 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"...the Bible is right, infallible and inerrant." - conservative

"If a man would follow, today, the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he would follow strictly the teachings of the New, he would be insane." - Robert Ingersoll

Between these two quotes, I'll go with Ingersoll, thank you.

October 28, 2012 at 5:38 p.m.
fairmon said...

Apparently neither party considers the patriot act an infringement on liberty and freedom? Neither seems to think the use of grants or subsidies to manipulate local and state governments infringes on state sovereignty? Neither party seems to think government use of the tax system to show favor and decide who will win and who will lose is an infringement on life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

I have no problem with pro-choice but it should be a choice made by each state, not the federal government which is also true with the AHCA.

October 28, 2012 at 5:38 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "I am sorry that you are too dim to see how the Northern States were able to exert force on the Southern States because they had the freedom to make their own determinations."

That's an interesting, yet convoluted take on what led to the Civil War.

"I would further submit that the abolition of slavery would have happened in the South even if the civil war had never started or the Southern States had been allowed to secede."

Do you really believe that?

"The North should have respected the South's right to secede and vacated their military holdings in the South."

OMG....

"It was tragic that so many people had to die to make something happen on a particular time table. I suspect race relations in the South would be better today if a century of resentment had not been thrown into the mix."

How many Dixie flags do you have flying on your pickup truck?

October 28, 2012 at 5:45 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - what is Godless is the way that conservatives think about our nation's underclass.

It is folks like you who have reduced women's health care to nothing but abortion. I had no such thing in mind when I made my post. Provide women with education, health care and access to contraception and there will be fewer unintended pregnancies. With fewer unintended pregnancies there also will be fewer abortions. But, apparently that kind of logic is beyond those who think that poverty is a personal choice.

October 28, 2012 at 5:57 p.m.
ricardo said...

LOL, hillbilly history.

October 28, 2012 at 5:58 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike, I am astonished by your first Scripture reference.

The only thing I can figure out is that you went to some website which seeks to bamboozle people about the unborn not being life.

I say this because some pro abortion sites I found left off the first part of that Scripture verse just as you did.

Why is that important? Because it makes your position absurd.

Look up the Genesis 2:7 verse and see for yourself how someone exploited you and made you appear foolish.

October 28, 2012 at 6 p.m.
moon4kat said...

If Republicans manage to make abortion illegal, the likes of DesJarlais will still be pushing their women to abort unwanted fetuses . . . even if it means using a coat hanger.
They don't care about the health, safety and sanity of women.

October 28, 2012 at 6 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

The relationship between the North/South was fomented by RECONSTRUCTION. Most of you have no knowledge of it because history books mostly gloss over it.

October 28, 2012 at 6:03 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Oh, yeah! Genesis. The two different orders of Creation. Yup. Real consistent. Conservative, you need to make up your mind. Is the bible to be taken word-for-word or not?

If Republicans manage to make abortion illegal, the likes of DesJarlais will still be pushing their women to abort unwanted fetuses . . . even if it means using a coat hanger.

Actually, rich white women could always get abortions in safe procedures, even before RvW. They will always be able to. It's the rest that will go back to the alleys.

October 28, 2012 at 6:06 p.m.
conservative said...

"Ooooooohhhh....so you can decide for yourself which passages to take literally and which you can ignore or call allegory or parable, right? " Wrong again Ike.

The context of those verses were not dealing with the subject of abortion. Can you really be that obtuse?

October 28, 2012 at 6:08 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

The context of those verses were not dealing with the subject of abortion. Can you really be that obtuse?

Well, since I was talking about when "life" started, not abortion, you are right. Mistaken, but right. Way to go.

October 28, 2012 at 6:10 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

So, is the bible to be taken word for word or not?

October 28, 2012 at 6:14 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Alprova,considering your animosity for God and Scripture, I can't help but wonder if you were thrown out of a Christian church at some time in your life."

Nope. I've never been thrown out of a church in my entire life, but then, since I have been an adult and capable of acting on my own beliefs, I would never attend, more than once, a church where free thought, open discussion, and expression is not fully encouraged either.

So it's safe to say that you and I will most likely never wind up sitting in a pew next to each other.

You wrote in another post, "...the Bible is right, infallible and inerrant..."

Why would anyone ever attempt to argue with someone who is in total denial of the controversies that exist throughout the Bible?

It is no secret that the Bible has been amended by living, breathing, people throughout history. How anyone cannot accept the simple fact that it is not the end-all word of God, is beyond all comprehension.

Even if it were the word of God, you of all people, cherry pick it to the point that any copy of it that you have in your possession, should resemble a block of Swiss cheese.

October 28, 2012 at 6:14 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "Do you really believe that?"

I believe you are intellectually lazy or incapable of thinking for yourself.

October 28, 2012 at 6:27 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Still waiting for proof of God, proof of Biblical infallibility, proof of Jesus' divinity, proof of Biblical creation . . .

Still waiting . . .

October 28, 2012 at 6:28 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Look up the Genesis 2:7 verse and see for yourself how someone exploited you and made you appear foolish."

From the KJV version: Genesis 2:7

"7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Her quotation seems to be intact. What exactly is your challenge?

By the way, are you familiar with the scripture contained in Matthew 5:22

Matthew 5:22 (KJ21) - "But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, ‘Raca,’ shall be in danger of the council; but whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool,’ shall be in danger of hell fire."

October 28, 2012 at 6:33 p.m.
conservative said...

Ok Ike, you really are that obtuse.

You cited "Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”.

Here is the verse in it's entirety from the King James Genesis 2:7

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Now, since you are so obtuse, I will try to keep it simple for you. The "man" is referring to the FIRST man, Adam.

The first man, the first person was not born of woman! Read the entire verse, it is there. Abortion is not the subject, or teaching here. Don't you see that?

If you still don't see it then please ask one of your "Liberal Christian" friends to tell you about Adam and Eve.

October 28, 2012 at 6:35 p.m.

See this is why I have switched to wooden coat-hangers.

Never know what somebody might do with a metal one.

October 28, 2012 at 6:38 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, I am familiar with that verse. Does it have any meaning for you?

See my 6:35 comment for my answer to your other question.

October 28, 2012 at 6:39 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Did Adam have a belly button? Really, if some god designed man, he did a piss-poor job or was a government employee. Only a fool would put a toxic waste site by a playground.

October 28, 2012 at 6:56 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_Dennis said... "The relationship between the North/South was fomented by RECONSTRUCTION. Most of you have no knowledge of it because history books mostly gloss over it."

We weren't all lucky enough to learn our hist'ry from a drunk in a porch glider, Jack_. So, the North and South went to war because of the Reconstruction! Here, all this time, I thought the war came first! Maybe you meant Preconstruction. Most of you have no knowledge of it... LOL Who are you, Shelby Effing Foote? LMAO

October 28, 2012 at 6:59 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "The context of those verses were not dealing with the subject of abortion. Can you really be that obtuse?"

While you are correct to say that the verses that IKeithlu quoted were not dealing with the subject of abortion, they do seem to attest to a Biblical answer to the question as to when life truly begins.

The undeniable fact is that the Bible does not directly or clearly address the issue of abortion. Vague references to the preservation of life are as close as it comes.

Given that there are 33 instances of God taking innocent life, if the Bible is to be believed and to be taken literally, I'm not sure that the Bible is a good justification as proof that embryos deserve to be delivered, no matter what.

If the Bible is indeed the word of God, and if it is to be used to guide all things considered moral, and God being one who knows all and sees all, you'd think that there would be something concrete within the Bible to point to.

Thus, the debate will go on until we are all returned to dust ourselves.

October 28, 2012 at 7:02 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "I believe you are intellectually lazy or incapable of thinking for yourself."

What you believe makes no difference to me.

Given that you express sentiments that are rooted somewhere between the clouds and the conceptual Heaven, and that you are obsessed with and object to everything that a certain political cartoonist offers, pardon me if I don't perspire an ounce if you consider me to be intellectually lazy.

What you expressed, and that I responded to, is quite often expressed by those who sit on a porch made of rotting wood, who stick a plug of tobacco between their cheeks, whittle on a piece of wood, spitting every few moments, all the while lamenting about how the damn Yankees have changed what used to be an aura of wonderful Southern heritage, where life was merely a procession of galas and cotillions, and how life would be so different if the South had been allowed to secede from a nation filled with 'N' lovers.

I'll just be that Gone With The Wind is your favorite movie of all time.

October 28, 2012 at 7:21 p.m.
degage said...

Rick, where did neo-liberal come from? Are you lost in space? We were talking about classical liberals and social liberals.

And since you only want to get back to where government and the free market can co-exist you must be turning more to the right than you know.We just want to let the free market work. And liberals want the government to manage the free market; that being so the free market is no longer.

October 28, 2012 at 7:24 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Alprova asked Conservative:"Are you familiar with the scripture contained in Matthew 5:22/"

I seriously doubt that Conservative has ever read the Christian Bible, Alprova. I also suspect the same may be true of some of these Republican wingnuts like Richard Mourdock. Indeed, they're rotten representatives and terrible theologians:

“Richard Mourdock’s moral theology leaves Jeremy Paretsky, O.P., Professor of Scripture at Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, unimpressed. Fr. Paretsky writes:

There is a problem with people using theological language loosely, in that the principles tacitly invoked can come back to bite them in the ass.

Specifically, to say that anything that happens is by God’s will says everything and nothing: it says no more than that creation as such exists by the will of God, who in a single act incorporates all contingencies.

Will is confused with desire, which is a function of the human will. No distinction is made between God’s providential will (whereby he cares for creation) and permissive will (whereby contingencies are incorporated into that care).

To say that life begun by rape is God’s will fails to make this distinction. It is equally true by the same loose use of language to say that abortion subsequent to rape is also God’s will.

And for that matter any inanity uttered by a politician is also God’s will, a contingency which I hope the Almighty will take into account in his providential will for us all.

http://www.samefacts.com/2012/10/religion-and-politics/deus-vult/

October 28, 2012 at 7:45 p.m.
fairmon said...

Good news for Obama supporters. A loss by Obama can be blamed on the weather. Should he lose he may be the only blameless president to ever serve then fail to be elected to a second term due to no fault of his own. It is Bush's and the weather's fault, poor guy.

Regardless of who wins we need to keep grid lock. The people are better served if congress cannot do anything unless there is a crisis they have to come together on. Does the AHCA tax, increased premium cost and gas prices doubling not reduce buying power and demand? So, why not allow all tax rates to revert to those rates of the great Clinton years and watch the economy grow?

October 28, 2012 at 7:59 p.m.
degage said...

Hey Happy, where have you been? I thought maybe you and Easy went to Ohio to vote. Even though we don't agree on anything it is good to see you back.

October 28, 2012 at 8:29 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_ You just proved my point. No sense of history. Your life revolves around: a: the basement b: Monster drink c: wiki d: doritos You need to get out in the light some, lad. Learn some social skills. Interact with real people. You spend way too much time trying to be a smart-ass. I bet you play war-games on your little Acer when not squeezing zits.

October 28, 2012 at 8:34 p.m.

Debate, the only good thing about not living in a swing state is the relative paucity of political advertisements. I'm even almost glad this district is a near lock.

Still have to listen to the 4th district ones though. Either that or be quicker with the must button.

Maybe Zach Wamp or Mayfield should have aimed further west.

October 28, 2012 at 8:49 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

I am so tired of the killing for your "cause", killing for your country, killing for population control, killing so you do not have to be inconvenienced by the existence of a child... You a$$ holes make me cry for humanity...

October 28, 2012 at 9:18 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Looks like Romney's guy Mourdock also offended some in the Evangelical camps:

"When Indiana Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock this week spoke provocatively of rape-induced pregnancy as “something that God intended to happen,” liberals and atheists weren’t the only ones outraged.

The furor extends into Evangelical camps, too. Believers have taken Mr. Mourdock to task for bungling the important doctrine of providence, which holds that a benevolent God upholds and cares for an imperfect world. . .

What Mourdock said “is offensive,” says Richard Lints, a theologian of the Reformed tradition, which has Calvinist roots, and dean at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in South Hamilton, Mass. “The clumsiness is [to] so align God with evil that God becomes a horrific figure. It’s contrary to anything you read in scripture, and it removes the human responsibility.”

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2012/1025/Richard-Mourdock-the-theology-behind-his-rape-comments

October 28, 2012 at 9:29 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

No Sh1t. I am blubbering all over myself over what I have read here. I feel so much evil all around me. How have we gotten to a point that people can advocate for the extermination of an innocent soul and not feel completely ashamed of themselves?

October 28, 2012 at 9:29 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

ARE WE DOOMED?

October 28, 2012 at 9:33 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

DOOMED TO HELL? I think the atheists may have shown me how to find religion... I think there must a higher path than killing a baby to avoid inconveniencing a self-centered life.

October 28, 2012 at 9:40 p.m.
ricardo said...

Looks like BRP has lost it.

October 28, 2012 at 9:49 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

I cannot begin to describe how sad I am right now!

October 28, 2012 at 9:49 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BigRidgePatriot said: "DOOMED TO HELL? I think the atheists may have shown me how to find religion... I think there must a higher path than killing a baby to avoid inconveniencing a self-centered life."

Well, BRP, if you want to talk about self-centered lives, take a look at the agendas of some of these politicians like Romney and Ryan - talk about a "compassion" void. These people want:

to abolish safety programs that feed hungry children

to abolish the Affordable Care Act that assures healthcare for children

to abolish Medicaid, which provides obstetric care for poor mothers

to drastically reduce funding for the education of America’s children

to defund any program that provides birth control services to parents

to defund programs that provide assistance to the elderly in nursing homes

October 28, 2012 at 9:51 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

ricardo said... "Looks like BRP has lost it."

If I have "lost it" and you are "sane" I will go with lost it!

October 28, 2012 at 9:53 p.m.
miraweb said...

BRP wrote - If attitudes could change in the North they could change in the South and all the pieces were in place for slavery to end without war.

I don't know if I totally agree with that. The civil war was held off for a decade before it actually got underway. Technology was changing and that is not unimportant.

That said, I heard a piece this afternoon by a reporter who went undercover as a field worker. She noted that the paystubs she got were under-reporting her hours by about 80% so that it appeared she was getting at least minimum wage.

Slavery might not have been used in the same way as it was in 1860 but the minds of some employers haven't progressed all that much since then.

When you look at undocumented workers in construction and food production many live lives close to slavery.

If slavery were legal, I believe we have people who would still try to justify needing it to "make their bottom lines work." That argument is certainly made in outsourcing and some of those arrangements are not as far from slavery as they ought to be.

I could believe that Mississippi would still hold slaves without the Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th Amendment to stop it.

That said, it is an interesting argument that progress in one state can tip other states. There may be a case for it in health care. The fact that Massachusetts has had a working model for six years that covers 98% of the population does mean something in the national conversation.

Thanks for sharing that perspective.

October 28, 2012 at 9:54 p.m.
ricardo said...

BRP, I don't judge the morality of mankind by the idiotic posts of a handful of morons on an internet comments page in a hick town.

October 28, 2012 at 10 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Poor old Jack_. Bereft of imagination OR humanity OR potency OR cleanliness. Tell me again, Jack_, how we'd all be one big happy family if we had just let the slave owners decide unilaterally to give up their "ownership" of free labor. Explain the dynamics involved in, oh, let's say Vermont, Massachusetts, and Connecticut "pressuring" New York to acquiesce to their demands. Or Louisiana putting the hammer down on Texas. On an ancillary note, is your house, by any chance, full of Mother Goose and country bear crap from Gatlinburg? Would you say your decor has a Cracker Barrel motif?

October 28, 2012 at 10:02 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

mountainlaurel said... "Well, BRP, if you want to talk about self-entered lives, take a look at the agendas of some of these politicians like Romney and Ryan - talk about a "compassion" void. These people want:"

liberals that want to project 'LOVE' through the strong arm of the federal government amuse me. SHOW ME YOUR LOVE, or we will put you in jail! You f'n hypocrites!

October 28, 2012 at 10:04 p.m.
dude_abides said...

BRP... Seek help immediately. There are plenty of hotlines and supportive folks out there, but they are all liberals. If you decide that we're all full of sh!t, you can always go to:

http://howtohangyourself.ytmnd.com/

(not responsible for website misspellings, etc.)

October 28, 2012 at 10:11 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "I don't know if I totally agree with that."

Then go ahead and declare all of our neighbours flaming racists. I grew up in the North and can promise you that the South does not harbour an exceptional number of racists. Get Over It!

October 28, 2012 at 10:12 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

*dude_abides said... "BRP... Seek help immediately. There are plenty of hotlines and supportive folks out there, but they are all liberals. "

Thanks for bringing me back to earth dude. a$$holes like you remind a responsible soul to be ready for the next a$$ that is going to impose themselves on your life.

October 28, 2012 at 10:19 p.m.
miraweb said...

BRP writes - Then go ahead and declare all of our neighbours flaming racists. I grew up in the North and can promise you that the South does not harbour an exceptional number of racists. Get Over It!

That isn't what I meant to say. I wasn't very clear. I was saying I don't totally agree with the second part of that statement. I wasn't commenting on the first half.

I grew up in the West which didn't have the burden of the civil war hanging over every discussion. The North certainly has its share of racists and slavery is not strictly a racial issue. People of every race are still held as slaves in much of the world.

I haven't met your neighbors and wouldn't know their opinions but I assume they wouldn't be much different than anywhere else in the country.

Sorry if I gave that impression.

October 28, 2012 at 10:23 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Good night everybody. I wish we could all love each other (dude and alpo excepted) and demand that our government operate within the Constitution.

October 28, 2012 at 10:32 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Bookmark the website BRP. I'm trying to give you some options here.

I think I hear Georgia calling... they're gonna pressure Tennessee into sharing the river water! LMAO

October 28, 2012 at 10:34 p.m.
miraweb said...

My own community here in the Marxist Commonwealth of Massachusetts, as some call it, certainly has its share of racists.

A woman once said to me (with a perfectly straight face) that she just couldn't stand all the "pollocks" - because they were all just so prejudiced.

I did see a pickup truck yesterday with some guy flying oversize American and Confederate flags on it on our main drag. I don't know if he was expressing his Southern Pride or Skinhead White Power. Either is possible in my town.

One is a legitimate (and fairly harmless in my view) pride of place.

The other is a movement that seeks to bully and intimidate many good African-Americans folks who are part of our community. To be unaware of what that flag might mean to African-Americans or not to care is when I start to be concerned.

There are good ways to express Southern Pride and much for the South to be proud of. Much of America's best food and music are Southern creations. Part of my family is Southern and I still eat biscuits and gravy when the mood hits me - even here among the Yanks.

I am a 12th generation American (with more generations on the Chickasaw branch) so I have ancestors on all sides of that war.

October 28, 2012 at 10:38 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: Have YOU lost it? I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. You silly man.

October 28, 2012 at 10:50 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Get bent, Dennis. You make me sick with your middling intelligence and monotonous mind funk.

Jack_Dennis said... The relationship between the North/South was fomented by RECONSTRUCTION. Most of you have no knowledge of it because history books mostly gloss over it.

You're too average a man to give yourself that kind of credit, but you're also too average a man to realize it.

October 28, 2012 at 11:01 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

conservative: I'll ask again: is the bible to be interpreted word for word literally or not? Seems like a simple question. Why don't you answer?

October 28, 2012 at 11:03 p.m.
miraweb said...

I just want to be perfectly clear on this:

BRP wrote - If attitudes could change in the North they could change in the South . . .

Absolutely. I agree completely with that.

. . . and all the pieces were in place for slavery to end without war.

This is the part I may not totally agree with.

Sorry - I was very clumsy in my wording. My bad.

October 28, 2012 at 11:20 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Dude_: You're not making sense, homebound. Get out of the house and away from your mother. The lack of a male presence in your formative years is telling. Sad, but telling. You prey on people from your little tablet, but you're a wallflower face to face.You cower when approaching people on the street....maybe cross street to avoid them. You always vote by absentee ballot, thus avoiding the meanies out there. I've seen your type before. Sex offender registries are full of little dude_abides. Perhaps a gender change operation is an option. I hear they do good work in Thailand.Might be cheap too, as they would have very little trimming to do on you, Homey.

October 29, 2012 at 12:12 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Until last week abortion was illegal in Uruguay, a small country of 3.4 million people. With 30,000 illegal abortions a year Uruguayans decided that legalizing what was going to happen clandestinly was the better course.

Similarly, when the war on drugs failed to stop marijuana use, they legalized it. Now they are about to go one step further and have the government grow and sell marijuana.

It makes very little sense to make or have laws that cannot be enforced. Are you listening USA?

October 29, 2012 at 1:37 a.m.
hambone said...

Someone please tell me.

Under the Romney/Ryan-Gift from God Administration, if an expectant mother thru no fault of her own has a miscariage, how much prison time will she have to do?

October 29, 2012 at 3:54 a.m.
ricardo said...

hambone said..."Someone please tell me. Under the Romney/Ryan-Gift from God Administration, if an expectant mother thru no fault of her own has a miscariage, how much prison time will she have to do?"

It all depends on the type of rape that got her pregnant. If it was forcible, then she only gets probation. If she was willingly raped, then it's a more severe punishment.

October 29, 2012 at 5:34 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BigRidgePatriot said: “liberals that want to project 'LOVE' through the strong arm of the federal government amuse me. SHOW ME YOUR LOVE, or we will put you in jail! You f'n hypocrites!”

I don't understand. . . How are we hypocrites? . . . WE THE PEOPLE are the federal government. . . It’s "our tax money" and "our arms" that are reaching out. . . I see no advantage in having a weak arm, BRP. . . Surely, you can see that even your heroine Ayn Rand needed and benefited from "our arms" as she grew older and became ill:

“It was revealed in the recent "Oral History of Ayn Rand" by Scott McConnell (founder of the media department at the Ayn Rand Institute) that in the end Ayn was a vip-dipper as well.

An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to Miss Rand's law firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick verified that on Miss Rand's behalf she secured Rand's Social Security and Medicare payments which Ayn received under the name of Ann O'Connor (husband Frank O'Connor).

As Pryor said, "Doctors cost a lot more money than books earn and she could be totally wiped out" without the aid of these two government programs. Ayn took the bail out even though Ayn "despised government interference and felt that people should and could live independently... She didn't feel that an individual should take help."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ford/ayn-rand-and-the-vip-dipe_b_792184.html

October 29, 2012 at 5:56 a.m.
MTJohn said...

conservative said..."Why is that important? Because it makes your position absurd.

Look up the Genesis 2:7 verse and see for yourself how someone exploited you and made you appear foolish."

Conservative - perhaps that is because people who are less familiar with the Scriptures have followed the example that fundamentalists have set to site Scripture out of context to put down everyone who does not share their perspective.

October 29, 2012 at 7:02 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Jack_Dennis said..."The relationship between the North/South was fomented by RECONSTRUCTION. Most of you have no knowledge of it because history books mostly gloss over it."

Jack - are you demonstrating your own lack of knowledge or have the history books that you read glossed over the parts that preceded the reconstruction? And, what about the parts following reconstruction? Reconstruction had nothing to do with perpetuating slavery for almost a century post-civil war; Jim Crow laws; segregated public schools; etc. etc.

October 29, 2012 at 7:12 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Dude_abides noted: “I think I hear Georgia calling... they're gonna pressure Tennessee into sharing the river water! LMAO”

Indeed, Dude_abides. One wonders what is going on here, especially since both are red states. One would think there would be a strong sense of brotherly love in these Bible states, and no need for Georgia to pressure Tennessee to share the river water. . . But I guess not.

October 29, 2012 at 7:27 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_alope... That silly sh!t won't work with me any better than it did with easy123. You made a ridiculous statement, assuming your education and knowledge was superior to "many" of us. It's too late to burnish your reputation after you've already made a shambles of it. Try to hold off on the beer today, at least until your normal workday would have been over.

October 29, 2012 at 7:45 a.m.
MickeyRat said...

Tu_quoque and the conservative ministry of propaganda drone (pun intended) on and on ripping into Obama for not preventing the attacks in Libya. Should they have had more security? Were there clear warning signs? Should we have raked the streets with a C-130 Spooky? Obama should’ve responded from his iphone! etc. etc.

Give me a friggin break! You have to be kidding me. What happened to “Nobody could have predicted the 9/11 attacks?” Or even worse, making up the intel on Iraq - Repeatedly! Or how about “Nobody could have predicted hurricane Katrina?” To which Dubya's reaction was 'Huh'?

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Anyone who questioned Dubya after 9/11 was immediately attacked as unpatriotic or asked “Why do you hate America”. And yet these same hypocrites have no problem questioning everything that Obama does. Like flies around a dumpster, they can’t wait until we have all the information. And if they don’t like the information, they will make things up. You make me sick.

October 29, 2012 at 8:49 a.m.
fairmon said...

The abortion issue has certainly been beat to death. I don't believe there are still undecided voters. Those so called sounding boards and participating in polls have decided but not revealing their decision.

Any comparison between the candidates presents the starkest contrast in modern political history. How can a voter be undecided at this point two weeks before the election? Post election results will not be much different but very few of us have that opinion.

The minuscule number of undecideds have no core values or belief systems or they would not be undecided. Their vote is decided on whims…body language, a candidate’s wife, the color of a tie, who knows? They may change their mind after getting a ballot. Some are ignorant and clueless, out of touch they may not know who the candidates are while others are telling a lie for the attention it gets or doesn't get them.

Gary Johnson is still the best choice but people are scared of drastic change. By 2016 the fear may be not making a drastic change.

October 29, 2012 at 9:13 a.m.
mymy said...

Harp: In such a crucial election don't waste your vote. Make a decision between the 2 that count or you are no better than the undecided voters!!!!!

Save your protest vote for a primary election not the general!!!!!

October 29, 2012 at 9:26 a.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb said....

I am a 12th generation American (with more generations on the Chickasaw branch) so I have ancestors on all sides of that war.

Most of us did. The most senseless and brutal war in history had brother against brother fathers and sons opposing each other. Americans killing each other. A government attacking it's own. A death, wounded crippled toll as a percent of the population among, if not the highest, of all wars. It was not unlike those wars currently seen in the middle east where one group insist on forcing others to behave and believe as they do. Is it fortunate or unfortunate that no other country intervened and assisted either side as countries like the U.S. and others do today, it could have been worse with terrible results?

October 29, 2012 at 9:30 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: Don't worry about my education. Mine didn't come from a dark basement via Google. Get out and meet some real people, Homebound.

October 29, 2012 at 9:30 a.m.
mymy said...

Since Sandy is a major topic/problem for millions:

As Hurricane Sandy approaches the northeast United States, the left is attempting to politicize the storm, attacking Republican nominee Mitt Romney and his running mate, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), for wanting to shift more responsibility for disaster relief from the federal government to the states. They ignore the fact that President Barack Obama's proposal for the upcoming budget sequester would cut nearly $900 million from the Federal Emergency Management Agency, including disaster relief, food and shelter, and flood management at both the federal and state levels.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/29/Obama-s-Sequester-Slashes-Funds-for-FEMA-Flood-Management

8 Days to Go!

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country/National Security here/abroad and the growing debt.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Romney/Ryan 2012

October 29, 2012 at 9:48 a.m.
fairmon said...

mymy said... Harp: In such a crucial election don't waste your vote. Make a decision between the 2 that count or you are no better than the undecided voters!!!!!

Save your protest vote for a primary election not the general!

I have decided and it is not a protest vote but a vote of principles that are consistent with my beliefs. Johnson is the only candidate that would truly reform the tax system by trying to pass the fair tax proposals in HR25 and SB13.

I believe a truly free market that enables more people to be successful is the best solution. I would like to see 100,000 or more with a million or more annual income paying the current 35% rate. Or, I could join with mountainlaurel and others that think a large dysfunctional central government is the answer and we should extract wealth from the successful until they are all gone and we are all equally impoverished.

October 29, 2012 at 9:48 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MTJohn. Was talking about the angst between N/C SINCE the war. You and dude_ need to keep up Consider the context. You lefties are BIG into context, no?

October 29, 2012 at 9:51 a.m.
mymy said...

Harp: Your excuses are weak with the circumstances this country is facing with this election.

SHOCK Liberal Des Moines Register Endorses Romney, First Republican Endorsement in 40 Years

"Throughout the campaign, [Romney] has expressed faith in the private sector to fuel a more robust economic recovery if it has more confidence that the federal government will not be an obstacle," the paper wrote. "Romney has a strategy for job growth through tax and regulatory relief for small businesses, encouraging all forms of domestic energy production, education that prepares graduates with job skills, expanding foreign trade and reducing the burden of federal deficits."

As for Obama, the paper pointed out his lack of ideas and plans for a second term and noted that while he "rocketed to the presidency from relative obscurity with a theme of hope and change in his administration," a "different reality has marked his presidency" and "his record on the economy the past four years does not suggest he would lead in the direction the nation must go in the next four years."

"The president’s best efforts to resuscitate the stumbling economy have fallen short," the paper wrote of Obama. "Nothing indicates it would change with a second term in the White House."

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/10/27/IOWA-SHOCKER-Liberal-Des-Moines-Register-Endorses-Romney-First-Republican-Endorsement-In-30-Years

October 29, 2012 at 10:01 a.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel said....

Romney and Ryan want to:

To abolish safety programs that feed hungry children

To abolish the Affordable Care Act that assures healthcare for children

To abolish Medicaid, which provides obstetric care for poor mothers

To drastically reduce funding for the education of America’s children

To defund any program that provides birth control services to parents

To defund programs that provide assistance to the elderly in nursing homes

These are not accurate with most in the same category of granny over the cliff, supporting dirty air and water etc. Two questions are how are you going to pay for these without increasing the debt and why are these federal instead of state programs?

When in the future do you see the bloated federal government ever becoming fiscally responsible? If not now when? If not you paying for what you get who?

October 29, 2012 at 10:03 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Harp: Hard to take laurel seriously. She simply memorizes the points coming down from Axelrod. Then spews them time after time, after time. I guess the strategy is that if you repeat that ish time and again, people begin to believe it.

October 29, 2012 at 10:17 a.m.
fairmon said...

mymy said... Since Sandy is a major topic/problem for millions:

As Hurricane Sandy approaches the northeast United States, the left is attempting to politicize the storm, attacking Republican nominee Mitt Romney and his running mate, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), for wanting to shift more responsibility for disaster relief from the federal government to the states.

They should be getting credit for doing so. The department of homeland security was a knee jerk reaction and another unfunded Bush program. The staggering amount of waste and poor management is well publicised. Homeland security was expanded rapidly once in place to include much more than guarding against terrorist attacks.

October 29, 2012 at 10:20 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Vandal Keys ‘Obama’ Into 2 Cars In Alta Loma

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/10/27/vandal-keys-obama-into-2-cars-in-alta-loma/

Liberals are juvenile jackoffs

October 29, 2012 at 10:37 a.m.
fairmon said...

mymy posted....

As for Obama, the paper pointed out his lack of ideas and plans for a second term and noted that while he "rocketed to the presidency from relative obscurity with a theme of hope and change in his administration," a "different reality has marked his presidency" and "his record on the economy the past four years does not suggest he would lead in the direction the nation must go in the next four years."

The president’s best efforts to resuscitate the stumbling economy have fallen short," the paper wrote of Obama. "Nothing indicates it would change with a second term in the White House."

mymy you nor the paper must not have seen the 20 page glossy brochure being handed out at rallies with plans to mail it to millions? I haven't seen it but surely it is a detailed recipe for successful resuscitation of the economy. It is interesting and a wonderment to me how Europe is blamed for dragging us down but we still insist on emulating them. Surely, if we get a copy of the glossy, it will explain this to us.

October 29, 2012 at 10:39 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

When Obama called the SEALS, THEY got Bin Laden. When the SEALS called Obama they were ignored.

October 29, 2012 at 10:41 a.m.
Leaf said...

BRP, You're in favor of forced sterilizations? Dang, that's extreme.

October 29, 2012 at 10:42 a.m.
Leaf said...

Come on, Fox News conspiracy theorists. Do you really believe that the President of the United States personally constantly monitors every embassy and consulate? Is it his job to remotely pilot all the airplanes currently in the sky and personally pull the trigger on all the bad guys in the world?

Hey, maybe he got a super brain implant from the Roswell UFO! If he has such Godlike powers, then why have a military chain of command at all? Think of the cost savings!

October 29, 2012 at 10:49 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

No Leaf, just have responsible people under him. People not willing to cover his butt. You can't possibly think all this tap dancing for weeks was justified.....Mix incompetence with cover-up, you get this situation. Man has been in over his head from the get-go. Had it been Bush, the media would have soiled themselves over this story. Fact.

October 29, 2012 at 10:54 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Come on leaf! Put the blunt down before you hurt yourself!

October 29, 2012 at 10:55 a.m.
joneses said...

Obama, hear this, It’s better to die a hero than live a coward. Libya was a real massacre October 29, 2012 These words are from the father of an American massacred in Libya ON YOUR WATCH. This is the America that is very real.

Last night on Geraldo at Large Charles Woods, the father of murdered Benghazi SEAL Tyrone Woods, sent this message to Barack Obama: “It’s better to die a hero than live a coward.” Well said.

“To have known what he had available, to have known that Americans were under fire, and to have done nothing, is dereliction of duty that I have never seen in a Commander in Chief from a president of any party. Outrageous.”

October 29, 2012 at 10:58 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Leaf: No conspiracy here. Just plain incompetence. Or indifference. Take your pick. Drop Hillary into the grease....or CIA....or Right Wing conspiracy (vast)....any will do, BHO.

October 29, 2012 at 11:02 a.m.
degage said...

Leaf, When a problem like the one on 9/11 happens we expect the president to be notified and then he should do something about it, if he was not notified heads should roll.Then when he was notified he should not have tried to cover up the whole thing.The buck stops with the president, that is what he signed up for when he ran for president. You know damn well if Bush was president you would want his head but since it is your god its not his fault. Obama is a blame someone else president.

October 29, 2012 at 11:11 a.m.
degage said...

One added comment, If Bush was president they would have gotten help.

October 29, 2012 at 11:14 a.m.
vcarbine said...

It seems Bill Clinton is in the same category as Desjarlais. He was a Dope smoking Womanizer also. Did You vote for Him?

October 29, 2012 at 11:37 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Jack_Dennis said..."Was talking about the angst between N/C SINCE the war. You and dude_ need to keep up Consider the context. You lefties are BIG into context, no?"

I know that you are talking about angst since the end of the war. And, yes, we are big into context. Truncating history distorts history and is dishonest. Ergo, my post.

October 29, 2012 at 11:46 a.m.
rolando said...

Say what you will, The Obama[nation] is not just incompetent to be Commander-In-Chief of our military, he is unfit for the position.

Most ANY person, selected at random from a phone book, would be a better fit.

As to The Alternative -- as drawn by our resident "artist" -- I offer this:

quote

The men on the ground called for help – Obama did nothing. It Was Dereliction of Duty

Former National Security Adviser Bud McFarlane told FOX News today:

"You don’t just passively allow Americans to remain under attack for eight hours at a time when you have forces within range and do nothing. The Secretary of Defense was in the White House at five o’clock within an hour of when the attacks started. He could have told him, 'Yes. We have special operations peope and F18 aircraft that could be deployed right away.' To have known what he had available, to have known that Americans were under fire, and to have done nothing, is dereliction of duty that I have never seen in a Commander in Chief from a president of any party. Outrageous."

More…

Yesterday, a California radio show called The Dark Secret Place, hosted by Bryan Suits – a combat veteran of Desert Storm, Kosovo, and Iraq – interviewed a former member of the Combatant Commanders In-Extremis Force (CIF), which was in Italy. These are the “firefighters” of the U.S. military, who are always on call. Their gear and weaponry are always packed, and they’re used for precisely what happened in Benghazi. They could’ve been in Benghazi very quickly.

This veteran says Panetta is lying about deciding that it was too risky to send in troops because they didn’t have enough information. The CIF is always sent in, regardless of the risk. He also said that the information Panetta had–real-time video from overhead, exact locations, exact identities of the Americans involved–would’ve been the most the CIF would ever have had before a mission. They’ve gone in before using only hand-drawn maps.

Finally, this veteran said that no general would’ve advised Panetta against using the CIF, because this is the unit’s job. They’re more heavily armed and trained than the Delta Force.

unquote

Look for more of this incompetent decision-making in the future. Our sitting President has and does freeze when any emergency occurs.

October 29, 2012 at 12:04 p.m.
conservative said...

Mtjohn, are you saying that this pro abortion site that deliberately edited a Scripture verse to make it appear to mean something other than it's intended meaning was because someone else who you call a fundamentalist did the same?

What is your meaning of fundamentalist?

October 29, 2012 at 12:41 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike, meditate on your word "simple" and the answer to your question will come to you.

October 29, 2012 at 12:50 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"One added comment, If Bush was president they would have gotten help." - degage

You mean like those 3000 people who died in the WTC?

When Bush received intel prior to 9/11 that we were about to be attacked, it was with all the determination and steadfastness of a true leader, wasn't it, that he acted to find out the source of just how that attack would manifest itself. It was really magnanimous and heroic how he just ignored that intel as being mere "bluster," wasn't it? And then, after he got word that we were attacked, he sat there frozen, a full 7 minutes in his little chair in Booker Elementary, listening to a reading of "My Pet Goat." Yes, the sign of a true leader! And then, after it was reported that the planes involved had been hijacked, there was still plenty of time for NORAD to take them down before they actually hit their targets, but our air defense system just happened to be involved in "war games" that day. And our commander-in-chief somehow was incapable of making the call that we were under a REAL attack.

Yes, it's a cryin' shame Obama doesn't have the leadership qualities of Bad-boy Bush. He really got things done, didn't he? He watched out for us, didn't he?

You hypocritical jerks. If you think Obama needs to be held to the fire over this incident, where were your outcries over Bush and 9/11? Over 3000 innocent people murdered on his watch!! But you never held him accountable, and still don't. Either be fair and honest, giving criticism where it's due on both sides....or STFU.

October 29, 2012 at 12:51 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Ahhhh...conservative. Back to answer my question? Yes? Is the Bible to be taken word for word or can you pick and choose what you believe is literal and what you believe is symbolic, allegory or myth?

October 29, 2012 at 12:53 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dickyroo: Apples to kumquats. And you know it.

October 29, 2012 at 12:55 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

"The country Obama inherited was indeed in shambles, but Obama took a bad situation and, in certain ways, made it worse," write Stone and Kuznick, reports Politico. "Rather than repudiating the policies of Bush and his predecessors, Obama has perpetuated them." -Oliver Stone (LEFT wing hack) bwahahaha

October 29, 2012 at 1 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, regarding your "Given that there are 33 instances of God taking innocent life,"

33! Why not 133 or some other number? I am guessing that you also have gone to some Liberal website for that misinformation. Would you name the site or even cite one of those instances?

October 29, 2012 at 1:02 p.m.
conservative said...

conservative said...

Ike, meditate on your word "simple" and the answer to your question will come to you.

October 29, 2012 at 1:03 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Nice non-answer and dodge, conservative. Try again.

Tell you what-I gotta hit the road so I'll be gone for a few hours. That will give you plenty of time to research your answer.

October 29, 2012 at 1:05 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

I agree with you, J_D. There is nothing Obama has done that can even come close to comparing to the damage that Bush has inflicted upon us, and from which we are still suffering.

October 29, 2012 at 1:17 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike, 2 minutes is not meditation. Your answer is in your word "simple." Maybe someone will come to your aid

October 29, 2012 at 1:29 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, regarding your "First of all, you joined the elimination of religion and morality in your charge"

No, I did not. I had in mind the Scripture, the word of God. You see it is God's morals that is the standard.

Religions, political parties, movements, ideologies etc. have their own set of morals, often quite different from those of God.

Some religions and even some political parties and ideologies actually believe human sacrifice is moral!

October 29, 2012 at 1:31 p.m.
mymy said...
October 29, 2012 at 2:54 p.m.
Leaf said...

Oh, you Monday morning Tacticians. You're very well-versed on military tactics and the disposition of small unit forces all over the globe, as well as all possible ramifications of putting American boots on the ground in a sovereign country, and/or firing miniguns on a residential neighborhood from an airplane. With this knowledge, coupled with your perfect clairvoyance you should all be Generals. What are you doing here in Chattanooga? Please go save the world for us.

October 29, 2012 at 3:13 p.m.
miraweb said...

Not that I don't enjoy the bluster and nonesense but we're off the grid now. Gotta preserve the UPS for another day. Back when we get electricity again.

Cheers, mates!

October 29, 2012 at 3:25 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

David Axelrod: “They have this fantasy that the debates will come and the dam will break like it did in 1980. I think they are delusional.” Really, thug?

October 29, 2012 at 4:14 p.m.
raygunz said...

Stay safe Miraweb!

October 29, 2012 at 4:21 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Be careful on the road, LU. The men are out to run you down, ya know.

October 29, 2012 at 4:34 p.m.
rolando said...

Of course we are, Leaf...a strong majority of military members are Republican, after all. That's were those tactics, etc., originate.

We ARE saving the world...you think anyone else can or would do it?

Off hand, whether right or wrong, I figure you are a good example of why few women are in position to influence military tactics [thank God]; women are the life-givers -- men are the life-takers. Evolution made us that way.

October 29, 2012 at 4:41 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, regarding your "Religious people fail to be moral all the time. Belief in or the expression of religious faith does not give one a lock for life on the issue of morality."

I certainly agree with that. There are scores of religions and religious people who practice evil. Christians know they have a sin problem and that is why they have accepted the sacrifice for sin that Jesus paid on the cross for them. Religious people who are the vast majority in the world falsely believe that they are good people and that they will go to heaven. They are mistakenly trusted in their own righteousness.

However, they have none :

Romans 3:10 KJV As it is written , There is none righteous, no, not one:

Isaiah 64:6 KJV But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away .

October 29, 2012 at 5:12 p.m.
hambone said...

Lieing TROLL ALERT !!

October 29, 2012 at 5:12 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 says: “These are not accurate with most in the same category of granny over the cliff, supporting dirty air and water etc.”

Either you can’t add or you haven’t been paying much attention to all of those Medicaid cuts that Romney has been proposing, Harp3339. The reality is that Romney is supporting a plan that will reduce federal Medicaid funding for states by 38 percent so a lot of grannies are going to be rolled out of nursing homes and over the cliff. You can’t take that much money out of a program and not have negative consequences. His proposal even jeopardizes the health care reform law that he enacted as governor of Massachusetts in 2006.

And I’m sure that almost everyone has heard Mitt Romney boasting that he would ‘’cut off funding to Planned Parenthood,” even though the program provides valuable reproductive health and maternal and child health services to a great number of women. It is incredibly disingenuous on your part to deny it, Harp3339. The same is true in regard to the food stamp program. In speech after speech Mitt Romney has boasted of all the cuts, changes and dismantling that he intends to do in safety net programs that are currently serving the poor. It’s true with the food stamp progam, housing subsidies and also job training programs.

October 29, 2012 at 5:31 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, regarding your "Most people do not feel the necessity to attempt to shove their beliefs down the throats of others or to condemn others all the time, as you do "

Really, I had no idea I had so much power over you. Perhaps in the future I will begin with the words "open up" when I respond to your attacks.

Speaking of condemnation :

John 3:18 KJV He that believeth on him is not condemned : but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

October 29, 2012 at 6:20 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "33! Why not 133 or some other number?"

Because the Bible contains only 33 instances where God took innocent life.

"I am guessing that you also have gone to some Liberal website for that misinformation. Would you name the site or even cite one of those instances?"

You need look no farther than Genesis 6:9 for the most outrageous incident when God allegedly took innocent life. The Great flood.

Defend it if you can.

"Religions, political parties, movements, ideologies etc. have their own set of morals, often quite different from those of God."

I see, so you believe that morality is only rooted in religion?

"Some religions and even some political parties and ideologies actually believe human sacrifice is moral!"

That too can be found in the Bible as well, or do you deny that too?

October 29, 2012 at 6:30 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Republicans are slated to dominate 2012’s gubernatorial races according to the latest polls. There are eleven states with gubernatorial races this year:

Man, lots of racists out there.

October 29, 2012 at 6:34 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

According to rickyloo, Bush should have evacuated the entire continental Unites States.

October 29, 2012 at 6:36 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Yeah Jack. Even with 99% of the media being biased partisans for the democrats, they STILL have to fight to stay alive. Imagine if the so called "media" were the objective, un-biased reporters of news like they were years past. The democratic party might not even exist today.

October 29, 2012 at 6:44 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, open up. Regarding your "Morality can encompass a wide litany of meanings."

Agreed, that's why only the righteous morality of God should be recognized and adhered to.

Those who don't see the immorality of abortion should trouble everyone.

October 29, 2012 at 6:46 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Jeffco ‘Democrat Of The Year’ Stripped Of Title

Authorities say Carson befriended the woman and then took control of her checkbook, stealing at least two checks to pay her own personal expenses.

Sounds like what Obama has been doing to the taxpayers.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/10/29/jeffco-democrat-of-the-year-stripped-of-title/

October 29, 2012 at 6:50 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

I think I finally uncovered the whereabouts of easy: Planning a "welcome home" celebration.

Family of woman who was 'raised by monkeys' speak out

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraphtv/9637693/Family-of-woman-who-was-raised-by-monkeys-speak-out.html

October 29, 2012 at 6:55 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_Whitepower has been posting all day. Check the mail, trash the left, suck down a Natty Light, check the mail, trash the left, suck down a Natty Light, check the mail... woohoo, check's in the mail, purchase case of Natty Light, trash the mailbox on the way in.

October 29, 2012 at 6:57 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, regarding your "Because the Bible contains only 33 instances where God took innocent life"

"God took innocent life"

Are you even aware of the meaning of innocent?

Defend your "God took innocent life" statement.

YOU CAN'T!

October 29, 2012 at 7:05 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, open up. Regarding your "You need look no farther than Genesis 6:9 for the most outrageous incident when God allegedly took innocent life. The Great flood"

Here is Genesis 6:9

King James Version (KJV)

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Now what does that verse have to do with your assertion?

You seem to be getting your information from some atheist or Liberal internet site.

October 29, 2012 at 8:05 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

All this time and still you can't answer? How embarrassing for you. Let me point out that you , like many biblical literalists, don't have an answer when you are presented with inconsistencies in your holy book. So you are forced to "lie for Jesus". Very dishonest.

October 29, 2012 at 8:33 p.m.
dude_abides said...

conservative said...

Defend your "God took innocent life" statement. YOU CAN'T!

Actually, I think He was involved in a drive-by in East Chattanooga in 2011. Didn't do any time, though, because His attorney demanded a writ of Habeas Corpus Christi and the prosecutor turned out to be the DA (Devil's Advocate). The Judge dismissed the charges, lest he be judged, so...

October 29, 2012 at 8:42 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, open up. Regarding your "That too can be found in the Bible as well, or do you deny that too?"

I am well aware of examples of sinful man in the Bible. Maybe you are not aware that just because many instances of sinful, wicked and evil behavior are recorded in the Bible, it doesn't mean in any way that God approved it or that it is a standard of moral behavioir approved of God. Is it possible that you even think that?

Corinthians 10:5-7

King James Version (KJV) 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

October 29, 2012 at 8:47 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike, I had you figured out from the start.

October 29, 2012 at 8:49 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Hurricanes are like women, when they come they're wet and wild, but when they leave, they take your house and car.

October 29, 2012 at 9:14 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Ike, I had you figured out from the start

I knew you couldn't answer. Another Liar for Jesus. You only take word for word those parts of the bible you like, and explain away or dismiss everything else. Thanks for confirming this.

October 29, 2012 at 9:28 p.m.
dude_abides said...

TOES02800 said... "Hurricanes are like women, when they come they're wet and wild, but when they leave, they take your house and car."

Why would a woman leave, toes? How many cars and houses have you lost? I know, I should leave you alone. At least you're not telling vicious right wing lies.

October 29, 2012 at 9:52 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: How many tats? Tell the truth.

October 29, 2012 at 10:04 p.m.
dude_abides said...

tats, Jack_? Really?

October 29, 2012 at 10:48 p.m.
alprova said...

Conservative wrote: "Agreed, that's why only the righteous morality of God should be recognized and adhered to."

You stepped in it this time.

If the Bible is to be taken literally, word for word, and if God sets the morality guideline, then the Great flood, where every man, woman, and child, not to mention the entire animal kingdom save for one pair of each, were all destroyed, unless they were on a humongous boat.

Biblical apologists for eons have attempted to make the case that God only destroyed the wicked, but since when are children and animals ever considered to be wicked?

"Those who don't see the immorality of abortion should trouble everyone."

Yet this is one issue, of many, that the Bible does not directly address, in order to make it clear that it is wrong on all fronts.

God set the example and took the lives of living, breathing, children several times, if the Bible is testimony to that fact and if the Bible is to be taken word for word.

What troubles me is that, if the Bible is perfect, unerring, and to be believed as the word of God, then the Bible makes it clear that innocent children were MURDERED in several instances. In the case of the Great Flood, which God claims in the Bible to have committed all by his lonesome, he essentially MURDERED all the remaining people of Earth with the exception of one single solitary family.

THAT should trouble everyone, don't you think?

October 29, 2012 at 11:15 p.m.
mymy said...

Exodus-Inter-City-Blacks-Fleeing-Obama-Democrats

There is an interesting video in this article. I’m happy to see some are waking up to the root of some of their problems ====== finally. More need to follow.

“After his meteoric ascent to the top of the American political arena in the country’s history, we are now in the midst of witnessing one of the most stunning collapses of any man ever to hold the office of President of the United States.”

“Over the past few weeks we have begun to see the ultimate unraveling of support for the president, with women and youth fleeing from his side. But what is even more surprising and perhaps unimaginable to the president and his faithful media cult is that he is now also losing members of his normally deemed “untouchable” base of support—poor, inner-city black Americans.”

“In the course of an ongoing investigation into the root causes of the rising tide of violence and horrifying murder rate this year in Chicago’s most destitute neighborhoods, several video interviews I conducted with black American voters from the community-organized south and west side, reveal a community that is fed up with the status quo--the status quo that keeps these communities ridden with poverty, homelessness, unemployment, dismantled families, and, of course, skyrocketing murder rates. And residents say, “it is the black Democratic leadership implementing a liberal agenda” that is to blame for the ongoing plight in their community.”

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/26/Exodus-Inter-City-Blacks-Fleeing-Obama-Democrats

October 29, 2012 at 11:30 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_:: so dodge the question. you learn that in chicago?

October 29, 2012 at 11:46 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Are you even aware of the meaning of innocent?"

Absolutely. I can't argue what the state of affairs were for the adults destroyed by God, but you know full and well that there are many instances where the lives of children were taken many times throughout the Bible.

Are you going to purport that children, even infants, were wicked and deserved to be destroyed? You mentioned human sacrifice a few posts back. I noticed that you simply ignored the fact that there are examples of men being asked, By God, to sacrifice their first born sons as a demonstration of loyalty.

Godly morality is not all it's cracked up to be, that is if the Bible is the word of God and to be taken word for word.

"Defend your "God took innocent life" statement. YOU CAN'T!"

I can and I have. You simply choose to ignore clearly defined scripture.

God even commands us to kill in certain circumstances. Have you ever known or had a rebellious son? Perhaps a son who eats too much? Maybe he is imbibes alcohol in excess. According to Deuteronomy 21:18-21, it is commanded that you take your rebellious son to the elders of the city and allow them to stone him to death.

But that's not innocent life, is it?

Exodus 11:4-7; 12:29-30 NIV - "About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt - worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any man or animal."

"At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well. Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead."

I don't agree with the conclusion expressed, but the man does ask some very interesting questions in the video that cannot be answered logically. Let's see if you can offer some insight.

October 30, 2012 at 12:05 a.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: Here is Genesis 6:9

Excuse me. I posted the scripture reference incorrectly. Perhaps if you read Genesis 6-9.

"You seem to be getting your information from some atheist or Liberal internet site."

Nope...just a typo.

October 30, 2012 at 12:11 a.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "I am well aware of examples of sinful man in the Bible."

You're completely denying that God, if the Bible is true and correct and to be taken literally, took the life of innocent people who had nothing at all to do with those "sinful men?'

"Maybe you are not aware that just because many instances of sinful, wicked and evil behavior are recorded in the Bible, it doesn't mean in any way that God approved it or that it is a standard of moral behavioir approved of God."

I'm not challenging that people did not commit sin and in fact, many did so way back when, but there is example after example of God punishing the innocent, by taking their lives, in order to facilitate compliance of the sinner, to part from his evil ways.

That's messed up...

"Is it possible that you even think that?"

I see. Now you're attempting to state that the Lord had no hand at all in the taking of innocent life? Scripture counters that very clearly, in each and every one of those 33 instances of murder.

Why not face the fact that the Bible is not the word or the work of God? Contradictions are contained throughout the Bible. It has been loosely translated by imperfect men, each with their own opinions inserted when translation into the English language was difficult.

Further, the Bible is symbolic and not to be taken literal.

You don't follow it word for word. Nobody does. You cherry-pick it to pieces, quoting that which you agree with, and completely gloss over that which you don't.

October 30, 2012 at 12:26 a.m.
caddy said...

Because the constitutional right to be able to kill ones baby is right, good, and needs to remain unquestioned.

http://www.gocomics.com/chuckasay/2012/10/30

November 5, 2012 at 10:52 p.m.
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