MEMPHIS – Democrat Karl Dean and Republican Bill Lee squared off here Tuesday night in their first gubernatorial debate, disagreeing in areas ranging from Medicaid expansion and investigating police shootings to private school vouchers.
At the same time, Dean, a former two-term Nashville mayor, and Lee, a successful Franklin businessman, sometimes found themselves on common ground.
That included their concerns over the state’s problem-plagued student testing system and its impact on both children and teachers, as well as a controversial state law that suspends driver’s licenses for persons who don’t pay off court fines.
For 60 minutes, both discussed their views during the forum at the University of Memphis. Both are seeking to succeed term-limited Republican Gov. Bill Haslam.
Running as a Democrat in a Republican-dominated state, Dean said he believes voters want a “pragmatic” governor who can get things done. “I am anxious to move forward in a non-partisan way, a moderate way.”
Dean listed health care, education and jobs as his top priorities.
Lee, running as a “conservative outsider” and “man of faith” who is a newcomer to politics, said he will bring the same skills and experience he honed as the owner of his family’s 1,200-worker building services company, along with other life experiences, to running the state.
“What matters to every Tennessean is to have a good job, good school and safe neighborhoods,” he said.
Unlike last week’s fiery first debate for Tennessee’s U.S. Senate seat between Democrat and former governor Phil Bredesen and Republican U.S. Rep. Marsha Blackburn, the gubernatorial candidates’ faceoff on Tuesday was far more genteel, although both men did have their differences.
The pressure was on for Dean to make up ground, with recent polls showing Lee ahead, the latest two surveys by CNN and Republican strategy firm Vox Populi Polling indicating Lee has a 9-point lead. CNN’s poll last month showed a 52-43 percent Lee advantage. Haslam, chairman of the Republican Governors Association, is backing Lee, and the RGA has already run an ad in support of Lee.
Medicaid expansion
Dean has spent much of the campaign promising to fight for expansion of the state’s Medicaid health program and extend it to some 300,000 Tennesseans with federal dollars largely provided through the federal Affordable Care Act.
Haslam tried that in 2011 but was rebuffed by his fellow Republicans in the GOP-dominated General Assembly.
“That was a mistake,” Dean said, adding “the frustrating thing is we’re paying for that program through our federal taxes. It’s leaving our state and going to benefit 34 [other] states.” He said it’s led to the closure of 11 rural hospitals, many of them in West Tennessee.
Lee said “every Tennessean deserves to have access to a health care system that they can afford” and added “what I want to do is make sure that happens.”
But he called the current health care system “fundamentally flawed” both in Tennessee and the entire country. The cost trajectory is “unsustainable,” he said, and efforts should be made on that front. Expanding a “broken, flawed system by taking federal money I believe is a fundamental mistake,” he added.
Asked recently by the Times Free Press what would change GOP lawmakers’ minds given that Haslam failed, Dean said he if wins the governor’s race, it will be because voters are sending a message to all state officials that they want the expansion.
Education testing
Both Lee and Dean voiced concerns over continuing problems in Haslam’s TNReady school testing programs, which have had a shaky rollout, with problems this year leading to an uprising in the General Assembly.
“You might change the name, because it hasn’t been ready,” Dean dryly observed, adding that teachers, students and parents don’t trust the program because of two years of snafus.
Moreover, Dean said, “what you don’t want is an atmosphere or a culture where everyone thinks that you have to test and test and test.” He said there can still be accountability for educators.
Calling the situation “obviously a challenge,” Lee said “TNReady hasn’t worked” and the vendor needs to go. He said his overall take on testing is that “you can’t improve what you don’t measure.” But that said, added Lee, whose wife was a teacher, there can be “too much” testing.
He said he would take a look at the “entire measurement system in state” and wants meetings with teachers and parents as well as “a very robust conversation about how we can improve” things.
Dean also noted he disagrees with Lee’s support for education vouchers, which would allow parents to use public money to attend private schools. Efforts by Republican lawmakers to enact a limited program for low-income families have perennially failed over eight years.
Lee has said he could support a limited program.
Police shootings
The candidates were asked whether police departments where an officer shoots someone should investigate the incident themselves. It’s a major issue in Memphis, where there was a recent fatal police shooting.
Dean, a former public defender, noted that he thinks it would be a “positive thing” for the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation to examine police shootings. “So that you’re going to a neutral source,” he said. He said he believes “that’s what people are looking for.”
Lee said it’s “really important” to note “that our law enforcement officials put their lives on the line every day.” Shooting incidents can “break down the trust between law enforcement and the communities,” Lee said, adding there needs to be “an important conversation about how we establish and reestablish trust.”
But he wasn’t for requiring TBI investigations. Speaking with reporters later, however, Lee voiced openness on TBI investigations in cases of fatal shootings.
Stripping driver’s licenses from those who don’t pay court fines
Dean, a former public defender, said he disagrees with Tennessee Attorney General Herbert Slatery’s decision to appeal a federal judge’s ruling that tossed out a state-passed law that strips driver’s licenses from convicted people who don’t pay their fines.
“As governor, I would respectfully ask for the attorney general not to appeal this,” Dean said, later noting that when a driver’s license is revoked, it means people can’t get to work, parents can’t drive their children to school or else the offender continues to drive, fines mount and they wind up being charged.
Lee noted that 95 percent of prisoners will eventually leave prison and 50 percent commit new offenses. He pledged that “I will look hard at the concerns raised by that ruling.” He said he spent years mentoring a former prisoner to help the man successfully re-enter society and knows the challenges.
“We have to find ways to make it easier for them to re-enter effectively, so the costs go down” not only for them, but taxpayers who foot the bill for incarceration.
Early childhood learning and other education issues
Both Dean and Lee want improvements made to early childhood learning in Tennessee but propose different paths, with Dean advocating for expanding public, pre-kindergarten programs, which are now largely restricted to lower-income families.
“We have to continue down the road where we have universal Pre-K,” Dean said, but qualified it with the “caveat” that based on a Vanderbilt University study it “has to be a quality program.” He said he also supports hiring “reading specialists.”
“This is something I would consider a priority if education is our No. 1 priority,” Dean said, noting it is key to improving students’ lives as adults, as well as aiding employers by giving them an adequate workforce.
Earlier, Lee touted early childhood education programs such as reading. Speaking in Memphis, a city with a majority-black citizenry, he noted that blacks in fourth grade are half as likely to read as their white counterparts. Those statistics need to improve, he said.
Moreover, Lee said, teacher preparation programs need to get better. He appeared cool to the idea of universal Pre-K, saying, “I am always a guy who believes that government is not the answer.”
The debate was sponsored by The Commercial Appeal and the USA Today Network-Tennessee, WMC Action News 5, the University of Memphis, the League of Women Voters and the Economic Club of Memphis.
Dean and Lee have two more debates. The next is Oct. 9 in Kingsport and their final meeting will be Oct. 12 in Nashville.